Open 775: Hard-Boiled Eggs [Game Over]

[ejjinami]

Well...having read some of ejjinami's old games....I stand corrected. If anything, this is slightly more mellow and chilled out than normal. :lol:

Although I couldn't see any games with you as scum to really test the theory - any suggestions?

Wait, you looked through my previous games just because of a few early posts???

OOF

damn
I’m.... kinda impressed

If you want info about my scum games it might be kinda hard. I had a SK game here a while ago and played as maf on another forum a few times but all my recent games in there got deleted cuz of one of the mods’ account getting hacked and the hacker deleting game threads for

exactly no reason

...
I could describe the differences in meta I know and am still working on but at least from my experience people never really listen to stuff like that anyway.
I’m not sure if I would either :/

[ejjinami]

Furthermore, I can see this isn't your first non-newbie game. Why lie?

pfffft, that genuinely made me chuckle xD
I have no idea why would anyone ever do that for any game-related reason but nice catch lol

[Allomancer]

If you want info about my scum games it might be kinda hard. I had a SK game here a while ago and played as maf on another forum a few times but all my recent games in there got deleted cuz of one of the mods’ account getting hacked and the hacker deleting game threads for exactly no reason...

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[DkKoba]

Well...having read some of ejjinami's old games....I stand corrected. If anything, this is slightly more mellow and chilled out than normal.

Although I couldn't see any games with you as scum to really test the theory - any suggestions?

Unvote: ejjinami

Let's try

Vote: Dkkoba

I'm not convinced by "Hello, this is my first non-newbie game". It reads a bit like "please don't lynch me, I'm new".

Furthermore, I can see this isn't your first non-newbie game. Why lie?

Subbing in and merely sitting there and making sure I don't become lynchbait doesn't really count to me
My scum game is much more elaborate and more depends on me trusting my partner with the game as my goal is to sniff out PR in most cases.

[DkKoba]

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

This is the natural conclusion I met. I have a scum strategy that would help scum in terms of mechs but I'd rather keep that to myself. I'll share my thoughts on strategy later, as it is one of my strong suits in open setups.

[72offsuit]

FoS Alora and Allomancer because now if i want to use the abbreviation Alo it will be confusing

One "l" vs two "l"s. Alo and Allo.

Yeah, this'll be fun.

Would the real Alo / slim shady pls stand up.

Wdym by stand up?
And who is slim shady? :/

Don't tell me that I'm that old. And even older than that.

The Real Slim Shady
Song. By eminem

[Battle Mage]

Vote: ejjinami

3 consecutive posts, and 2 consecutive posts on the first page? Pull yourself together!

Either an over-zealous townie desperate to make their mark, or a nefarious goon trying to muddy the waters by making the game thread needlessly long.



Strategy wise, I like Tet's idea of exploiting the tracker-hider combo. Although we would need to play the day phase a bit cautiously to reduce the likelihood of outing the tracker. And we'd have to hope the tracker didn't go rogue and pick vigilante or something!

An alternative would be that we all say who we will target each night as hider, so if the real hider dies, we have a trail, but also we don't out them.

Pfffft, I’m kinda tempted to start spamming the thread just to irritate you more
That’s EXACTLY why games here are so hard to start lol. I’m not gonna stop myself from posting just because... posts are apparently a pain to read???

Hahahaha, actually that might be the only explanation.

If you wanna fake a read at the beginning of the game, that’s fine but I most likely won’t. So you’ll just likely have to deal with me spamming the thread till I figure out what to do.

Wow...no need to take it personally!

[happyorange]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

[DkKoba]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

How much experience do you have with open setups and strategy?

I have played on Epicamafia for the past 4 years and they exclusively use open setups on there thus having a preset strategy/strategy set for each setup is common.

I would like to hear your logic behind this.

I think the "it'll give mafia info" is bullshit. setup strategy spec is important to hash out early on as to optimize what we can do mechanically. I think I'm going to also park my vote onto you until you give me a satisfactory answer that makes me feel like you're not just trying to mislead town to do suboptimal things VOTE: happyorange

[Hiraki]

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

[BrightEyedFish]

QuantumQuasar failed to confirm their Role PM and will be replaced.

[BrightEyedFish]

clidd failed to confirm their Role PM and will be replaced.

[BrightEyedFish]

Madoka replaces QuantumQuasar

[happyorange]

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

What makes you say that?

[Aloratom]

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Why

late

D1? I don’t see how it’d change anything :/

I agree with that the rest tho

I'm guessing to deal with a counter situation, but I can see problems with that.

[Aloratom]

How much experience do you have with open setups and strategy?

I have played on Epicamafia for the past 4 years and they exclusively use open setups on there thus having a preset strategy/strategy set for each setup is common.

What do you think of Tet's strategy?

[happyorange]

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Why

late

D1? I don’t see how it’d change anything :/

I agree with that the rest tho

I'm guessing to deal with a counter situation, but I can see problems with that.

In situations where you want to claim a role day 1, you claim later in the day rather than at the start of the day because it gives village more information from interactions before the player becomes a clear villager. You claim unconfirmable roles day 1 in large part to avoid issues with counterclaims later, but you don't really have that with hider because the hider can just announce that they're hiding behind their counterclaim and whichever hider doesn't die that night is a wolf. This is why no wolf who understands the role interaction would ever counterclaim hider, and why village never needs to spend kp on resolving a hider counterclaim, which is also why hider outing day 1 is bad.

[Hiraki]

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

What makes you say that?

Experience.

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: tet

[Battle Mage]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

I completely disagree with most of this.

However, reference to werewolves, when it's obvious you know there are no werewolves in the game (because you've read the setup) did make me happy, happyorange. I'd consider this quite a bold open from scum, so giving benefit of doubt.

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: 72 actually

[DkKoba]

How much experience do you have with open setups and strategy?

I have played on Epicamafia for the past 4 years and they exclusively use open setups on there thus having a preset strategy/strategy set for each setup is common.

What do you think of Tet's strategy?

I vibe with it, although it can use an optimization

[Battle Mage]

early read, based on a sample of her recent games, is Hiraki = town.

[Tet]

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Why

late

D1? I don’t see how it’d change anything :/

I agree with that the rest tho

I'm guessing to deal with a counter situation, but I can see problems with that.

In situations where you want to claim a role day 1, you claim later in the day rather than at the start of the day because it gives village more information from interactions before the player becomes a clear villager. You claim unconfirmable roles day 1 in large part to avoid issues with counterclaims later, but you don't really have that with hider because the hider can just announce that they're hiding behind their counterclaim and whichever hider doesn't die that night is a wolf. This is why no wolf who understands the role interaction would ever counterclaim hider, and why village never needs to spend kp on resolving a hider counterclaim, which is also why hider outing day 1 is bad.

Right, the earlier the hider is outed the more time scum has to play around them in regards to reads, associations, pockets, etc.

Not sure I follow with the counterclaim bit though. The fact tracker exists in combination with the hider makes scum unable to counterclaim the role.

[Tet]

People should stop talking about roles, it doesn't benefit village and gives the werewolves more information than they deserve about who is or isn't what role. If you feel the need to discuss the setup, do so in a way that doesn't spew you as not X role. Hider outing is a terrible idea, optimal play for hider is to hide behind their strongest townread each night unless that player is vulnerable to a nightkill and if hider outs then it becomes very simple to narrow down who they are going to visit at night. Vigilante is also a lot more power for town than tracker, and the vigilante should be shooting the counterwagon each night, so as long as the vigilante is doing their job there should never be any real risk of the vigilante inadvertently hitting the hider. Detective/psychologist is going to have false positives with a vigilante around but that should never be a serious issue when claims happen, as long as they are sensible and don't out on day 2 or day 3 if they happen to get an early result.

I completely disagree with most of this.

However, reference to werewolves, when it's obvious you know there are no werewolves in the game (because you've read the setup) did make me happy, happyorange. I'd consider this quite a bold open from scum, so giving benefit of doubt.

WW is just another term for scum, similar games and similar functions. Don't think of it like a ToS WW.

Also hider not outing today is like putting a handicap on the other town prs. Especially if town gets randed detective over psychologist. Because then both prs are hunting for the slot performing night kills. Forcing tracker and detective to hunt the same slot is suboptimal play. Psychologist is slightly better in terms of varying the pool but it's also not guaranteed to be in play.


Basically hider claiming circumvents all of that anyways.