Open 802: Jungle Oligarchy [Game Over]

[Klyne]

“

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” - Peewee Herman

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah i thought town played pretty well, this felt stacked against town to begin with and to get that close is pretty decent

still just sad though, after all that efforting

I think it just feels this way because town still has to go against all scum, so it feels like less of a chance than normal to win the game because normally balanced should feel 50% chance to win. This needs to feel 33% chance to win, which I think this is an extremely balanced version of the game, it just has that multiball swing.

We got to final 5, and 3 town, 2 scum, and you had the entire solve. We essentially ganged up on the Mafia together, and I actually think Town was leading this game the majority of the game, and we Wolves just played a wildcard move. I think this could have gone either way. Mafia had 3 of them so they could have taken control of the game, so I think it was more just them dropping the ball. It outed us in the process too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Good work, Username. Your wall posts looked really genuine. It just came to a point where you got POE'd out because Klyne became obv town.

[PageTopAndy]

Also modding a Large Theme here if anyone's interested in joining. I'm pretty happy with what I feel's going to be a great game.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85530

This was only my first game so I hope I am still invited????

[innocentvillager]

The issue you had in that day we faded username, you didn't really explain too much why it was me, so while it was obvious you knew I was scum, it made it look like just a tunnel. I played into the town reading Klyne for a while, and since he was in an absolute no analysis mode, he wasn't going to double check you.

I think holding off on that day phase and letting pagetop/username talk more would have opened it up to being obvious to everyone that I was scum here.

yeah i think this is pretty fair

i need to work on my casing for sure! Like i had a pretty strong gut scumread on username but I couldn't articulate it well, and a lot of reasons I came up with for him and VP Baltar really were just confbias-fueled, and I knew that. It did kind of seem like a tunnel and with my earlier tunnel on VP Baltar it probably would've been easy for Klyne to just write it off and not read it.

Holding off on the day phase would've been ideal imo, but I had to do something when Klyne voted PTA who I thought was town and I wasn't convincing him to unvote lol. My approach to appeal to Klyne probably worked well for getting username yeeted, but I think I should've been extra explicit afterwards against you instead of just getting caught up in the excitement.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also modding a Large Theme here if anyone's interested in joining. I'm pretty happy with what I feel's going to be a great game.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85530

This was only my first game so I hope I am still invited????

If you think you can handle a large theme game, sure.

My games normally seem like over the top a lot, but when actually breaking it down, even if it's a lot of unknown words, just gotta ask. Even experienced players ask about stuff in my game because it's just typically okay to because it looks overly wordy.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was actually surprised there was that many doubts in the dead thread.

I actually do think this game is balanced, but I don't think it will ever feel that way, if that makes sense. Biggest issue for town is town have to stay motivated. End game coming down to "it's anyone's game" is just typically a good sign. I think playing this setup with the same people over and over would come off pretty evenly for victories.

Username and I also worked the day phase to specifically not have our team come up much. I actually think that's becoming sort of a scum tell for me. It happened in Names on the List too, and even in Innocent Things.



Yeah, I think recently I've been playing safer as Mafia because it's just easier to coast because of 8SCUM GAMES IN A ROW, but when I coast, I have a tendency to argue in an exact way that TownMe would.

And Town Me is SUPER SCUMMY, so I have to actively not say what town me would say.

VPB made a line about why would he not understand why a wolf needed to die made me scum, but I said that because that was my actual thoughts on the subject from a town's POV, and I still agree. that Mafia fade nearly won town the game because we became obvious as scum. Klyne was able to become pretty townie, and for the most part IV was able to.

The mindset of "We need to hit wolves today" let me hide under the guise of being possible Mafia.

But like, yeah, that never would have happened to Murdercat if I was Mafia with them, and everything I said there was also true, I just happened to be a wolf. That essentially made it so I had a step up in scumhunting because I knew 1 extra slot who wasn't Mafia.

But yeah, time for a meta switchup.

This scumstyle just gets town me Misfaded because it's just town me.

[innocentvillager]

I actually do think this game is balanced, but I don't think it will ever feel that way, if that makes sense.

i think i understand what you're saying here

it feels like town did like, super well overall and STILL lost, making it feel like town chance of winning is way lower than 33%

but actually, if we had just hit wolves first or wolves nightkilled mafia, town wouldn't have had such an outrageous uphill battle

when wolves are gone town is basically just a pure favorite

and also the natural wolf/mafia conflict will just make scum eliminations a lot more likely than a normal game because no single team can manipulate the gamestate, even numbers aside

but that is also offset by scum being able to genuinely scumhunt and it being harder to discern scum, etc etc

[dsjstr]

Also modding a Large Theme here if anyone's interested in joining. I'm pretty happy with what I feel's going to be a great game.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85530

This was only my first game so I hope I am still invited????

If you think you can handle a large theme game, sure.

My games normally seem like over the top a lot, but when actually breaking it down, even if it's a lot of unknown words, just gotta ask. Even experienced players ask about stuff in my game because it's just typically okay to because it looks overly wordy.

I think I'll sit this one out but just you wait this isn't the last time you see me

[dsjstr]

oooo

[Datisi]

oh my god

[MURDERCAT]

lollll

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, I think you gotta look at it more like Team Yellow vs Team Green vs Team Red, each have different things they have to do. We were caught as Wolves, we just won in the Wildcard situation.

I do think you guys played well, but I think we played well too, and unfortunately, we kind of teamed up on Mafia.

You had 2 town misfades, Mafia had 3, we had 1. Basically, unless you're Mafia. It's 2 and you're out.

[innocentvillager]

ohhhhhhhhhh hi pagetopandy

[VP Baltar]

VPB made a line about why would he not understand why a wolf needed to die made me scum, but I said that because that was my actual thoughts on the subject from a town's POV, and I still agree. that Mafia fade nearly won town the game because we became obvious as scum. Klyne was able to become pretty townie, and for the most part IV was able to.

We definitely approach the game very differently. To me that felt like a huge scum tell.

Bulge was never NOT going to get yeeted this game because of the PoE. To me, that made the argument to focus on wolves even greater. I ultimately had to compromise because of iv. I considered shifting that compromise to username, but by that point I had spent too much time trying to convert iv to my viewpoint. We only had a few hours to deadline and I figured if username was a wolf, I would have hit a lot of interference to actually get the job done.

I think you're right about the setup. It FEELS unbalanced, but when all sides play at equal levels, it probably is balanced. I do appreciate setups that reward good play over night actions, personally.

[MURDERCAT]

Now you Klyne

[VP Baltar]

Lol

[Flavor Leaf]

It's the multiball vs singleball feel.

Multiball will always feel like you have less chances to win because you generally do.

Yeah, I feel like I definitely was a big cause of that Bulge wagon. I knew we needed to control the nightkill there, and I think VPB did end up being the right kill that night.\

That night where both Username and I were on the list. Ugh.

[Klyne]

Now you Klyne

Alright hi

[Klyne]

SHIT

GUESS IM STILL KLYNE

GOOD TRY MURDERCAT, WE'LL CALL IT A DRAW

[MURDERCAT]

Damn you

[dsjstr]

btw VPB I really like the way you speak I think it would be hard to tell if you are mafia based on your tone

[VP Baltar]

btw VPB I really like the way you speak I think it would be hard to tell if you are mafia based on your tone

Thanks! It's probably because of my job as a journalist. I have to write a lot on a daily basis and try to be as clear as possible.

Some people like that. I will say, I often get scum read as town though because people think I'm being manipulative when I'm really just trying to be persuasive. Double edged sword!

[innocentvillager]

Thanks! It's probably because of my job as a journalist. I have to write a lot on a daily basis and try to be as clear as possible.

Some people like that. I will say, I often get scum read as town though because people think I'm being manipulative when I'm really just trying to be persuasive. Double edged sword!

what kind of idiot could possibly scumread your tone for being manipulative? the fuck?

[Datisi]

yeah imagine that