Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Infinity 324]

I could very well be wrong on this mech too

[Something_Smart]

Infinity, remind me why you have unwnd as town?

[Infinity 324]

I felt like his play around ana has been quite towny, it feels like a genuine attempt to try to sort her through what seems like a layer of fog to him.

[Infinity 324]

Actually, that applies to a lot of unwnd's play, but the first place I saw it and the most clear was their early interaction with ana.

[Anastasia]

so you should want to jump in the wall with unwnd then?

[Infinity 324]

It wouldn't be my preference, since 2 of my strongest townreads are already at the keep it seems like it'll be tough to get 3 town somewhere else, but I'll go wherever consensus tells me.

[Anastasia]

I don't follow, I'm sorry.

[Infinity 324]

Since not many people have talked about this, I do kinda feel like catboi's early lock in at the gate could be scum-motivated (emotionally it didn't line up that well for me), but I don't see a clear specific scum motivation for it.

[absinthe]

That's rainchecked for now

It felt a bit (without offending) like an excited child. I don't think he really thought through what it would mean to either of us and just sort of threw it out there. Do you think that lack of consideration is more telling of him as scum?

I want to come back to this. I was curious how you felt about playing out that wall composition first, with your thoughts about lukewarm for suggesting it or about my reaction to the idea secondary.

[Infinity 324]

I don't follow, I'm sorry.

I think there's a high chance you and briar are town. For sale of argument, let's call it 100%. That means there's only a 50% chance of any other given player being town. Unwnd isn't a super strong TR, and the other player in the wall has a decent chance of being scum, so the goal of getting 3 town players at the wall doesn't seem super likely to me. I guess I'd rather go there than the gate, unless we're trying to put 2 scum at the wall.

[absinthe]

I seriously doubt I'd be IC'd in the Gate.

Why? It feels like you're pretty widely TRed

Just my thoughts about what I'd want in an IC there if I were scum.

[absinthe]

lol that's such a breakthrough for me and there's no one in this player list to appreciate it.

[Something_Smart]

I felt like his play around ana has been quite towny, it feels like a genuine attempt to try to sort her through what seems like a layer of fog to him.

I just looked back through unwnd's ISO and I really don't see that much that seems to be sorting Ana at all, let along in a genuine way. Can you point to some posts that made you feel this way?

[Something_Smart]

EBWOP

I just looked back through unwnd's ISO and I really don't see that much that seems to be sorting Ana at all, let

alone

in a genuine way.

[Infinity 324]

This is the progression I felt was genuine.

Spoiler:

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

So, the thing is with my response to Anastasia is that there's basically a certain ~type~ of personality that I tend to mesh easily and well with whether or not I know them, and I trust that to a degree they're fine with me displaying a sort of friendly warmth/playfulness and will reciprocate in kind or at the very least not find it weird, and given that Ana did more than that I was fine going along with it.

It's harder to have that sort of connection with like, absinthe/unwnd this game (even if I know the latter) just because of who they are as people. Which isn't a bad thing by any means because I like both of them! But it's just easier for me to get comfortable with someone like Ana at least more openly.

As for my actual read on her, it's townread right now. It's not so much for content but like... in my head, there's two paths, and the one where she's town currently involves her like... being able to read these things from me as a person and then take the /further/ step from that where she assume that "If I buddy up to Briar, she will be less willing to kill me, because Briar doesn't like killing her friends" (which is an unfortunate flaw of my game), and then goes to hype me up/etc. Which is a really big fucking stretch (UNLESS she is an alt, who has played with me and then read me as my main which is another big stretch I have to make to get to her being scum IMO) compared to her just being town and she's vibing with me right now, so that's that.

Maybe I'm being too kind because I do like her posts from a strictly non-game perspective and don't want her to be scum but regardless of that I see town. Even her opening posts (which I think absinthe/unwnd?) said pinged them read as... awkward more than scummy. SO, yeah.

If what you're implying in the bold is true then why was your first gut reaction to kiss up to me? Was your intent to get a reaction out of me and turn it into a read, or was it similar to Ana in some regard where you saw someone familiar and felt like starting there?

The latter really, I just like you as a player and we've only ever had positive/fun times together that I can recall, so it was fun to post those sort of things jokingly at you. But you're not like, as much to reciprocate that same energy in general.

I should explain more: I've seen you rather recently not like the like, extent a social aspect has taken root of a game, so I came into it knowing that you wouldn't most likely post back in the same vein as I was but it wasn't a big deal to me that you wouldn't, if that makes sense?

Some recent games I have indeed been a bit of a prick. It wasn't intentional on my part but I get really tilted by some things. One of them is how I want the game to played, which usually contrasts with how it's played. My understanding of You/Ana right now is that you're social players and feed off the energy of the room, while not getting caught up in details. I think that behavior is the most easily faked and something that is harder to read because of it.

I think what's going on right now (despite being apart of it) is that you have different players who appreciate different things. When it came to absin, I gave her a loaded question because I wanted to engage an unknown. To my surprise, absin was actually quite known and perked me up a bit. My question to you Ana is why the means of which me/absin had conversation vastly telling to how you/Briar did?

Your question confuses me.

You do understand I know I'm town right?

And you understand I am as well? My point was that we see the game differently and want different things out of it. If I'm being blunt I'm not further to determining your alignment after what happened with you/Briar.

I think that if you're scum you're going to play up your best traits in order to be townread

If you're town, those should come naturally?

None of this explains why you don't want me and Briar to have fun vibing.

If you think what we are doing is fake-able, then it's NAI behavior and not really important to the game - your mood should be indifference.

If you think what we are doing is scum theater, your mood should be suspicion.

Instead I'd say your mood is that of being "annoyed" - which fits well into the mindset of a scum who is upset that town players are giving each other townreads off NAI content as it tips the balance of the setup.

I'm not annoyed though, I'm giving you an olive branch when it comes to this interpretation.

Let me try to rephrase what I wanted to say:

Me and absin value different things and look for different tells, and the way in which we decode information. I am much more familiar with her mindset.

However,

You and Briar seemed to have the same reaction to one another. Why is a different approach inherently scummy to you? I noted that you didn't really care for absin's scumread on you but I don't want to turn this into a Me/Absin vs. You/Briar because I don't think that's what is really happening.

[absinthe]

Honestly I feel pretty good about my TRs on briar and ana, which means I think I like putting someone I also TR strongly at the keep. Absinthe would not be that player for me, but I do feel better about her than I did before.

The chances of any specific group of 3 being town is about 18% if I did my math right, which seems like something that's reasonable to try and go for. I also feel like it's reasonable to try and go for putting 2 scum in the same group (probably the wall) if we can. Then the gate could contain some null reads. Thoughts?

I'm having difficulty engaging readswise and my reads feel pretty stagnant though I feel like some are wrong. (To summarize, that's unwnd, absinthe, ana, luke and briar as town, dunn as null, and s_s and catboi as scumleans).

So let me try to work through the mechanics at least. If we try to put a third townread at the keep, we have a decent chance of putting 3 town in there. Say it's ana, briar, and absinthe. If we succeed, the best swap scum can do is probably putting one of those 3 into the gate. Ideally we'd put 2 scum in the wall if that's the case, which lets us have an extra townie in the wall and some WIFOM info about who we think scum would swap. I think I've talked myself into wanting a scummy player in the keep though, because if we have 3 town in the keep and 2 scum at the gate it's not great for us anyway. Especially since I TR unwnd and they're already at the wall.

Infinity, your read of me changes. Your strategy for how to stack the keep changes, and all of the changes seem to come down to the same answer for you.

[Infinity 324]

I don't see what the answer is that it comes down to

[absinthe]

That I shouldn't be in the keep?

[Infinity 324]

Sure. If you're implying there's an agenda there I don't have influence here anyway though.

[absinthe]

Where do you want to be now?

[Infinity 324]

The keep

[absinthe]

The problem I have with you being at the keep IF you're town is that it vastly simplifies who to move out of the keep

I feel like a briar/anastasia/me keep is 1) 100% town and 2) a bit more of a challenge for scum to work out the best swap.

[absinthe]

I feel not quite as good about a briar/anastasia/luke keep but I think it's more of a conundrum for scum than briar/anastasia/you.

[Lukewarm]

One of them was already explained, which is that it's good to have no more than two townread players at the Keep, seeing as we only need one to end up there post-swap.
The other is that the Wall is the hardest minigame and you're the kind of person who would give us a good shot at winning it

I don't think you have any idea just how little ELO practice I get, statistically speaking, especially as town. I'm good enough at obvtowning that I wind up nk'ed early A LOT.

I have found that the key is obvtowning, but with terrible reads. I have yet to be Night Killed in any game I have played in, despite being widely town read Day 1 in a couple of them

Spoiler:

I have yet to be in the ghost chat of any game I have been in. That might be neat one day

[Infinity 324]

The problem I have with you being at the keep IF you're town is that it vastly simplifies who to move out of the keep

I feel like a briar/anastasia/me keep is 1) 100% town and 2) a bit more of a challenge for scum to work out the best swap.

Yeah but you being a generally-agreed townread is much more useful in one of the other groups. I feel like scum can swap briar/ana no matter what and it's not really that much of a benefit to us to make the swaps harder to figure out, I'd rather just have townier people outside the keep to help solving.