Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 1.9

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

Vex Vience (2)

- LlamaFluff, Bambi Jay

Bambi Jay (2)

- RationalMadman, Kerset

T-Bone (1)

- Bingle

Bingle (1)

- Vex Vience

Kerset (1)

- Klick

Note Voting - T-Bone, Anastasia

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-23 22:00:00)

[Bambi Jay]

VC

VC

You didn't even do the last VC. The heck.

[Klick]

VC

[Bingle]

CV

[Bingle]

(unless we're just agreeing that one there's confirmed town, they finalise any vote we make?)

Conftown having a disproportionate influence on the lim is how conftown works, yes.

[Bingle]

It's only wrong if you're a VT or scum at this point.

From specifically my POV it’s easier to solve lovers mechanically, true. There are an equal number of townies (by the hydra logic) for which the exact opposite is true.

For the town as a whole, which pool we lim in is a net even. And yeah, if I decide that one of the solo players is scummier than the 50/50 of you AnaRm, I will definitely lim there. Your repeated “I only want to look at the lovers” feels like an attempt to not look at the solo pool, when if you are scum your partner is in the solo pool.

[Bingle]

One of these is a general method of successfully eliminating scum even if we miss the first time
The other is just suggesting we vote Llama

FTFY. The only functional difference between your plans is that Ana has stated she wants to BoP vote Llama.

While I don’t agree with the BoP vote, it doesn’t make the plan less reasonable.

OTOH the plan itself is bad, unless you’re specifically going for a BoP vote. First of all, it absolves the other players of responsibility in the second elim resulting in less cross pool associations for use in solving when we get to the other pair. Second it presumes that the players are going to follow through on the elim, which is by no means a guarantee. And third, it presumably puts our fates in the hands of the scummiest player, which... is not a good idea.

If I were magically eliminated right here and now, I wouldn’t want town to blindly choose to lim you and tbone, my current lean in the lovers. I would want town to reevaluate and consider between your pair and AnaRm because I’m not infallible and mafia isn’t a game best played by rolling dice.

[Bingle]

Klick, you’re townreading llama, right?

What do you think about VV/Bambi?

[Bingle]

Llama should be afraid of me though. O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game threatening LlamaFluff.

[T-Bone]

And by coincidence from a scum lover PoV focusing on the VTs first is preferable. Your repeated "I only want to look at the VT pool" feels like an attempt to not put yourself in the spot where you need to survive two 1v1s with RM/Ana and then Klick/me, respectively.

See? I can vaguely shade a tactic to imply what I want too!

It's as if...people can approach the games from their own points of view. I've been very clear as to why I think what I think. I've been very clear in speaking for myself and not for the playerlist in regards to where I think the scum is, and what I want to do to achieve scum eliminations.

By contrast, I think you've been trying to manipulate the playerlist by purporting to speak for the town by trying to draw this false conclusion between what I've said on behalf of myself. I think Kerset is trying to distract from my (correct) reads by trying to use me not posting on Saturday as a way to shade me as a lurker, and by using my most recent convo with RM to distract you all from remembering that I think this is the scum pair.

Bingle is trying to say 'T-Bone only wants to look at X because he's scum' while trying to speak for the entire playerlist about 'eliminating the scummiest player'.

Well DUH. It's as-if....and here's the kicker...I think Kerset is the scummiest player in the game (and Bingle has no choice but to come to his rescue).

You pair this with Kerset and this is a concentrated effort between the two to manipulate the game, and get the pair calling them scum out. Which, you know, they have to at this point. But I think it's transparent and Kerset's #540 and Bingle's #555 are doing this! Kerset in #540 tries to tell everyone 'T-Bone isn't doing anything' and Bingle comes in with #555 'actually T-Bone is trying to protect his scum partner in the VT pool and also doing nothing'.

Honestly, I think this pair's lim solves the lovers. I've been sitting on doubts for a bit, because while I thought Kerset was transparently scum, I thought RM and VV were being really unfair to Bingle in a way that made those two appear scummier. I think #555 Bingle outed themself though as not wanting to risk us solving the Lovers, because he rightly recognizes that their pair is the one most scumread and solving the lovers is bad for them.

[T-Bone]

Llama should be afraid of me though. O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game threatening LlamaFluff.

You should be afraid of me to and not worry about threats to LlamaFluff or else O.O

[T-Bone]

Also the person among the VTs I think is scum is the leading wagon so let's not pretend that A: I haven't thought about the VTs at all, B: that I haven't repeatedly voiced this read and C: that there's anything else I need to do there. What do you want me to do, argue with VV over my read of them?

[Bingle]

And by coincidence from a scum lover PoV focusing on the VTs first is preferable. Your repeated "I only want to look at the VT pool" feels like an attempt to not put yourself in the spot where you need to survive two 1v1s with RM/Ana and then Klick/me, respectively.

Hm. Expand on this for me.

[Bingle]

Also the person among the VTs I think is scum is the leading wagon so let's not pretend that A: I haven't thought about the VTs at all, B: that I haven't repeatedly voiced this read and C: that there's anything else I need to do there. What do you want me to do, argue with VV over my read of them?

Could you link examples for B and explain why you have the read you have?

[Bingle]

Llama should be afraid of me though. O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game threatening LlamaFluff.

You should be afraid of me to and not worry about threats to LlamaFluff or else O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game trying to prevent me from reporting them for threatening LF. Checkmate

[T-Bone]

Llama should be afraid of me though. O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game threatening LlamaFluff.

You should be afraid of me to and not worry about threats to LlamaFluff or else O.O

@TBone, I’d like to report a player in my game trying to prevent me from reporting them for threatening LF. Checkmate

Sure. I will take all your reports and give them the longing consideration they deserve.

[Bingle]

Jokes aside 562 is my most immediate concern.

[Kerset]

I think Kerset is trying to distract from my (correct) reads by trying to use me not posting on Saturday as a way to shade me as a lurker, and by using my most recent convo with RM to distract you all from remembering that I think this is the scum pair.

How does prodding your for activity 'distract' people? If you don't post and vocal your options then they may be forgotten but the fact that i ask you to be active doesn't stop you in any way.

Both you and Klick are at the bottom of post count. You are objectively the least interactive players. Today you added 13 posts, so at the time of my actions your gap was even higher.


Instead of crafting conspiracy theories just look at the data.

[Bambi Jay]

I somehow usually end up third to fifth every time and that makes me proud. Not to quiet not to loud.

Didn't think Vex had that many posts. Guess Ration's felt more like giant unpleasant walls I remembered more of.

[Kerset]

If you find my actions malicious then you probably also don't understand reasoning behind it, so here i go.
One of the *proper* tools to determine someones alignment is to observe their ability to gather information about worrying things and looking at reasoning behind reads (to see how much sense they make). The problem with you is that all you give me is

I agree with nearly everything in this post....except that I will not avoid thinking that Bingle/Kerset is the scum pair, because at this point, they are the ones I believe are scum. I'm actually also leaning VV as the goon, but I don't feel as strongly atm.

I believe that he and he is scum and bye bye. I don't see the process of questioning, nothing about

your

reasoning behind the reads. All things that scum struggle to fake in every game of mafia are hidden in your gameplay here.

btw that is the post where bone talked about VT

[Vex Vience]

i'm here for a few minutes, i got called into work for most of the day, and i'm currently wiped from having to go in on my day off.

I think we are in the same ballpark but looking at things from somewhat different angles... so just let me know when I have your reasoning wrong:

You can read Bambi better than me
You have no read on Bambi
You do not want to go for a VT today
If you had to right now you would vote me over Bambi

Assuming all of that is true, when do you feel that you would be able to read Bambi?

Also an aside... change skin color when on an alt. That helped me in the past.

i don't know if you can read bambi better than i can. i'm assuming you can because me and bambi's playstyle are very simliar.
i currently have no read on bambi, because bambi hasn't done very much that i remember.
i do want to go for a vt, for the same reason lovers want to go for lovers today—it's a 50/50 fmpov
yes, i would vote you over bambi.

also, i play on mafsepia on alts, mafsilver on hydra accounts, and mafblack/scumobile on my main account. it's just a matter of posting from my phone while walking home and trying not to fall into a ditch.

VOTE: Bambi Jay

Awesome. So what is your opinion on the RM/Ana duo? Vex too for that matter.

ana/rm is still town, and i'm sticking by this. rm is playing very similarly to last game, and they were town, so i'm going to assume this is town!rm

[LlamaFluff]

@VV - Again, at what point do you feel you can read Bambi enough to make that the primary motivation for a vote in VT pool?

[yessiree]

If you find my actions malicious then you probably also don't understand reasoning behind it, so here i go.
One of the *proper* tools to determine someones alignment is to observe their ability to gather information about worrying things and looking at reasoning behind reads (to see how much sense they make). The problem with you is that all you give me is

I agree with nearly everything in this post....except that I will not avoid thinking that Bingle/Kerset is the scum pair, because at this point, they are the ones I believe are scum. I'm actually also leaning VV as the goon, but I don't feel as strongly atm.

I believe that he and he is scum and bye bye. I don't see the process of questioning, nothing about

your

reasoning behind the reads. All things that scum struggle to fake in every game of mafia are hidden in your gameplay here.

btw that is the post where bone talked about VT

Please try not to use the spoiler tag as it is seen infringing rule 6 in the general category. I forgive you this time because I am a benevolent mod, so consider this a slap on the wrist.

[RationalMadman]

I'll say this now and pick up later,

If the vote on Bambi doesn't gain momentum, I am open to voting either pair and I do mean either. So, if you are all planning to vote Vex especially, I am going to resist it.

Vex has been Towntelling by activity and tendency to tunnel. However, if Vex's refusal to vote Bambi is what results in their downfall, then frankly I don't care.

I am very sure Bambi is the Goon, the lover pair I slightly suspect is Klick and Tbone but I genuinely can't tell. Bingle was asking much better questions and arguing farore ferocious last game as a Town Lover. This game he's still trying I guess but he seems to generically be thrpwong shade here and there (such as on Tbone) while randomly townreading someone like Bambi for something I don't understand how it's Towny. O actually am confused what Bingle explained he townreads Bambi for, is it the Klick vote? I read his explanation and didn't quite understand.

[T-Bone]

I think Kerset is trying to distract from my (correct) reads by trying to use me not posting on Saturday as a way to shade me as a lurker, and by using my most recent convo with RM to distract you all from remembering that I think this is the scum pair.

How does prodding your for activity 'distract' people? If you don't post and vocal your options then they may be forgotten but the fact that i ask you to be active doesn't stop you in any way.

Both you and Klick are at the bottom of post count. You are objectively the least interactive players. Today you added 13 posts, so at the time of my actions your gap was even higher.


Instead of crafting conspiracy theories just look at the data.

You grasp at silly things like activity and post count (like last game) because you don't have anything real because I am probably the most townie looking player in this game right now, I don't need 60 posts of nothing for that to be true.

May I remind people that's all Kerset had in round 1, and they were scum. Now maybe it's just the flawed way Kerset plays regardless of alignment, that I couldn't speak to. I only have this game as the data point. In my experience people who draw scum tend to lean on NAI things like activity because it's hard to fake reads. I see it, again in my personal experience, come from scum way more often than town (usually if it comes from town, it comes from a newer player or a player from a site like ToS).