Open 820: The Siege of Aurelia — Game Over!

[PenguinPower]

If you want me to respond to that penguin I will

Yes pls.

[PenguinPower]

bonus points for giving me the pagetop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you're fine with kyouko hammering just like that?

So you're fine with kyouko hammering just like that?

Never mind, I misinterpreted what you mean by info to mean like, explaining what we think is a good idea setup-wise. I don't think there's much reason to make moves early but again I don't think it's meaningfully bad because we get to analyze it. Like in principle your early jump last game should have been interpretable as evidence that you were scum. So it could be meaningfully scummy but I don't feel strongly about kyouko's jump so far.

Theres no follow up from unwnd

Why are none of the areas called the thunderdome? Whoever designed this setup is a piece of work.

Referring to S_S

Guess what happens if scum!me swaps? Gate flips first, and I get confirmed to be scum in another running minigame if I swapped out of gate with flipped scum, which I would have to if you and implosion are both town.

Don't think this is how the setup works.

At this point I actually feel townish on both T3 and ssbm, moreso on T3.

I think catboi could be scum.

This is just to illustrate that early on implosion's strategy is to bundle T3 with me. Plan is to IC me from early on most likely, and this associates T3 with conftown, which is good for scum!T3 in Keep. I think T3's part in the strat is to bus his partners to look more town on their scumflip.

"cluster obvtown at the keep to make the keep easy" is kind of not the best strategy wise because the keep is already the easiest location for us to win. I guess I can see why to put two there but like, fundamentally using the "resource" of consensus townreads to win the keep seems like an inefficient usage.

I still think ssbm and T3 are acting town. It's not really worth putting in effort to convince someone I think is town that I am town until phase 2 if we're in the same location after the swap.

ssbm brings up interesting points on unwnd re: his early posting and this game vs the previous (though I don't buy that so much because unwnd basically lampshaded it by describing how he'd acted in the last game) and I'd like to see him reply to them.

Bundles me and T3 again, and I think the last bit is the way scum invites their partners to contribute to elevate their and their partner's status

I think right now my vague scumpool is catboi, unwnd, Dunn and S_S and my hope would be 2/3 scum in that pool (which I have even odds of getting just by luck I suppose)

Unwnd never responds to this. He hasn't interacted with implosion since 49.

I just ask bc the natural impetus should be for scum to avoid going to the same place since the ideal for them is 1-1-1, so I don't see the motivation for unwnd jumping into gate unless it's something weird like that. though it could make sense since we were saying we want to group scum at wall

WIFOM that points to town!unwnd if implosion flips, and to town!implosion if unwnd flips red. Works both ways if they're partnered.

This is the exact kind of wall scumwnd makes.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Is this what we expect unwnd to say to a townie that is accusing him of being scum? We've seen how he treated me pre- and post- IC.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can see T3 bussing both his partners for the towncred at Gate. That's exactly the kind of play he makes as scum. As traitor to my scumteam, he faked a guilty on my partner and was pretending to be a combined detective Neighborizer when he was really a combined rolecop Neighborizer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also just feel like unwnd got quiet after parking his vote on S_S.

I'm here to play devil's advocate though, I like to put the possibilities out there and weigh them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe catboi and Dunnstral could weigh in

[unwnd]

Unwnd pushed T3 as town from super early on. He specifically argued for a keep of ssbm/Dunn/T3, presumably on the assumption that T3 would be voted there. He makes multiple mistakes about the locations, most notably 375 where he's like "oh I was totally considering going for the keep just to prove a point about not being scum with catboi" when it turned out the keep was already hammered. Then he calls it an odd makeup when from his POV it should be a pretty easy T3 vote.

I don't understand what this implicates for me, I was sour that Kyouko was playing IC and T3 was just his lapdog. I had it in my mind that possibly Kyouko/T3 were both town and scum were fine with the direction, but I felt bogged down from it. I was annoyed by Kyouko especially trying to weave connections that simply weren't there and felt a situation where if she wasn't going to consider my plight then I was just going to make strong moves of my own to prove innocence, because ultimately that's what it comes down to.

391 indicates that unwnd figured ssbm would hammer him. He goes gate anyway, but presumably the plan is to swap him out (Keep is already determined, so they definitely can).

I chose Gate because I wanted to try something new instead of Wall which is what I did last game. I had no plan beyond being proactive and seeing how Skitter would respond. I pretty much had (Skitter, T3, Kyouko) all breathing down my neck and knowing my own alignment I have to think about who's being genuine about their pursuits. T3 was being a mini-Kyouko and I didn't really want to think about it. Skitter affirming her reads as calling it really scummy to me seems a bit presumptuous but I didn't feel like the effort was entirely scum, despite my own folding later on. I felt more like scum enjoyed the complacency, not necessarily trying to build a narrative; Kyouko was already doing that for them. My read on Catboi was mostly firm but it was far harder to commit given Catboi's depth as scum.

Then he tries to get skitter to come to the gate. I would expect that the outcome of this would have been the same-- unwnd and implosion swap, and implosion 1v1's skitter. But when skitter stalled, they didn't want to risk me or PP taking it, so implosion rushed in with the intent to set up the same 1v1. His explanation for wanting skitter at the gate doesn't make a lot of sense-- obviously nobody is going to IC skitter, so either she gets swapped out or put in a 1v1, neither really helps read her.

I don't care about what Implosion did and I'm not going to care now. I think in hindsight the swaps were made because scum had already planted their feet (You, T3) and they needed a diversion. If there were no movement then it would imply that scum

didn't

need to move, which would make my posts like #524 true lol. I don't really believe You/Implo/T3 as a team were less about manipulating the gamestate and more about letting the (wrong) scenario that presented itself to come true. Your behavioral analysis of me is all chopped together to make it seem like everyone missed crucial evidence, but why wait until now? I've been a bit of a prick in some regards but if there was something I remember from last Fortress it's that your willingness to let your opinions come forth had no bearing on the gamestate. You often had this attitude where you were just thinking on a different wavelength than others and my god was it frustrating to undo as scum. Here your responses provide thorough dialect but none of the conclusions you make seem to follow your own patterns. Why is it now when the pressure is on you that you squabble together all these threaded ties to me and Implo. Was this something you thought about prior? Why not say it then. You had Implo still alive and it just seems to me like your own lack of proactive behavior is being projected onto me and you're saying 'look Implo and unwnd didn't interact and uh his T3 read never changed' yet what have you done?

And he came into today with a plan, it was pretty evident that they decided in the scum PT that he would try to get me executed.

Nothing in this game suggests this at all, you were both sitting on your hands and trying your best to not make eye contact. As someone who has won this game as scum there's no reason to bus and instead you're just hoping to either be townier or hope town makes a bad choice. This isn't a game where bussing and big plays make sense, not unless it's to gain something individually. You're not a big play type of person and I think as scum you're just out of habit where you're not sure where you can fit into the picture because this setup derives a seflishness where commonly most town think exactly like Catboi (and to some extent, me) wherein all we have to do is be townier and follow our instinct. You don't have that same drive and it shows.

And the scumread on me/townread on PP came out of nowhere. In 599, his last reads post before voting me, he has me as null and PP as "pretty enigmatic in general and doesn't reveal his intentions easily". No explanation at all of why that read shifted. It's not organic, it's pushing an agenda.

Huh? I'm not even sure what this is trying to say honestly. How is it pushing an agenda?

[unwnd]

I don't understand what this implicates for me, I was sour that Kyouko was playing IC and T3 was just his lapdog.

Her lapdog*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lapwolf*
(:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Peng you have a tough choice ):

[PenguinPower]

i know.....

[PenguinPower]

really wish s_s had been here d1

[Something_Smart]

Why is it now when the pressure is on you that you squabble together all these threaded ties to me and Implo.

Not gonna respond to everything, but I just want to single this out as a particularly weak bit of rhetoric. I don't normally do cases, I made this clear, but I asked PP if it would help and he said yeah. That's why I came up with those theories. I wouldn't have cared otherwise.

[Something_Smart]

really wish s_s had been here d1

Yep that makes two of us. The deadlines were plenty long enough for people to let me engage before jumping the gun, but I guess some people are just impatient.

[PenguinPower]

I feel like I should be fine to VOTE: Wall at least. I would imagine I'm the least Gate-fit person of everyone left.

Just vote Wall, PP. I think technically one more vote is required to end it.

[Something_Smart]

I mean that was after I had gotten to discuss it, I don't think anyone wanted me at gate, least of all myself. I don't feel I jumped the gun there.

[Something_Smart]

And 622 was after everything had been locked in, there is no advantage to continuing to discuss, it just gives scum more info for the swap.

[unwnd]

So you stitched together a thought process you never actually had and presented it as a case

[PenguinPower]

I have no read on PenguinPower lol

I don't have much to say about Implo/S_S right now, so you're spared a paragraph about them.

I can't say I really scumread anyone. That's a bit personally frustrating which is why I'm hoping the phase moves on and I have something like data to look at. Everything else is mostly conjecture.

Everyone scumreads me so I'm just gonna go out on a limb and vote the person I think is scum in my pool.

VOTE: something_smart

If pp quick hammers you can evaluate it. I think implo is who I'd vote in other pool

Still townread catboi

Why did you think s_s was scum over me?

[Something_Smart]

So you stitched together a thought process you never actually had and presented it as a case

...yes.

[unwnd]

I have no read on PenguinPower lol

I don't have much to say about Implo/S_S right now, so you're spared a paragraph about them.

I can't say I really scumread anyone. That's a bit personally frustrating which is why I'm hoping the phase moves on and I have something like data to look at. Everything else is mostly conjecture.

Everyone scumreads me so I'm just gonna go out on a limb and vote the person I think is scum in my pool.

VOTE: something_smart

If pp quick hammers you can evaluate it. I think implo is who I'd vote in other pool

Still townread catboi

Why did you think s_s was scum over me?

Just started to make sense to me at the time I think, basically PoE

[PenguinPower]

That doesn't really tell me anything. Walk me through what made sense and how you arrived at your PoE.

[unwnd]

I'll elaborate a bit harder:

Kyouko/T3/Dunnstral is my favorite pairing for the Keep right now

At this current point this is where I had mostly my townreads wanting to be. My reasoning remains the same, he either sunk as scum or he showed he's townie as being scum isn't his strength.

I would want to clear one of Catboi/PenguinPower/Skitter

I don't mind being in regular XYLO.

These are the people I wanted to clear, players a bit more difficult to read; I made a mental error and forgot where Kyouko was #207. I initially said 'i don't mind being in regular XYLO' but I changed my mind. It compounds into why I was goading Skitter into the Gate, but I was afraid of being obvious about it. I didn't want to give scum something to pick up on though I think I failed in that regard.

I feel decent about Dunnstral

At this current point I was feeling decent about Dunn, trying to sort through T3/Kyouko push, and then a fledgling read on Catboi. That would leave Implo/Skitter/You to be sorted. I think at this time I believed Implo to be scum and there was something going in my head like Skitter/Implo having one and then just leaving You/S_S as no read and figure out later.

You think T3 has a chance to be scum, catboi?

Here I ask one of the players I feel is to some degree trustworthy about T3 as by this point my read on T3 was starting to waver just by other odds.

uote="In post 286, unwnd"]I have two scumreads now I think

I know I'm being vague but it will come to fruition, eventually[/quote]

My two scumreads at this point were becoming Implo/T3, but I was afraid of saying it. I was trying to not reveal information because I was afraid of a competent scum muddling the process.

If you read further by this point I drop a mini-wall on Catboi/Skitter fighting each other. I still believed Catboi to be town, but I was wary of Skitter. My gut told me she was genuine in her push but I came to the conclusion either it was exact distancing or just two townies in disagreement. In my mind at this point I have Catboi/Skitter/Dunn as all varying degrees of OK which left S_S/You/Implo/T3.

#370 talks about the daring attitude I was trying to talk about, and eventually I trying to play mediator in a way. I wanted to test my own thoughts on Catboi/Skitter so I got inbetween them. I started to put more of my effort into getting Skitter into Gate because I knew that Two scum can't be on the same wagon, so just in case I was reading Kyouko wrong then she'd have to make a move OR the scumteam would have to clear Skitter for me. There was no way they were clearing me given all the heat I was taking.

The whole talk about 1v1ing with Skitter further really is just...seeing what she'd do. I plainly wrote it. #565 adds onto my feeling of Kyouko/T3 either having one scum or both just town, which is why I wanted Me/Skitter/Kyouko to check that.

[unwnd]

I think I switched to Skitter just because Catboi seemed to be leaning there (correct me if wrong) or something

I think that's mostly the conclusions I've made and how I've got here, it took a bit to remember some shit honestly

[unwnd]

Everyone scumreads me so I'm just gonna go out on a limb and vote the person I think is scum in my pool.

VOTE: something_smart

If pp quick hammers you can evaluate it. I think implo is who I'd vote in other pool

Still townread catboi

Yeah this post is my raw into D2 thoughts where I was like Implo/T3 and then I went 'ok if I'm wrong PP then so be it Kyouko is IC cleared so I'd rather not prolong my suffering of being misread' The whole this is my scumread is just bravado lol