Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[Amazonian Legends]

Well, goodnight.

also Tammy last posts kinda feels like town

I guess

.

[morph the cat]

Don't yell at me though!

nah. you just make me sad.

my ceph read is in peng's hands.

and that is peace.

[Amazonian Legends]

I still love you guys though!

[Amazonian Legends]

Don't yell at me though!

nah. you just make me sad.

my ceph read is in peng's hands.

and that is peace.

I do like this response though <3 and not because it made me feel guilty but because I liked it.

[Amazonian Legends]

I've given a high-level overview of the numberQ read: his play, particularly his thread interaction motifs, feel identical to guardians. I generally don't feel much agenda from him. I liked his entrance to the game and 140 feels like a real effort to give opinions on the things he thinks he has opinions on rather than for show, or like scum would feel like giving only one actual read in an opening post like that is a bad idea. The fact that he's gotten caught up in the pace of the game but still made posts like 271 while catching up is a good sign imo, in that scum would feel more obligation to look like they're staying on top of things rather than being quippy. I actually liked the series of posts from 270-279 and specifically (don't hate me) remember liking that he asked for a vote count; it made it feel like his interest in being on top of what's happening in the game was genuine.

That's basically where my early read was coming from. Since then I think his arc on Cephrir looks fairly consistent with him as town; his wall looks like town who is becoming increasingly sure on a read more than scum who is trying to bs a case to me. His thread interactions feel generally very at ease to me e.g. 630 662. I don't think he looks like he cares especially much about perceptions. He's continued to sort of focus toward specific players/specific things despite being criticized for it and I think his play is consistent with town who is slightly bogged down by the pace of the game but doing his best to still figure out the things that he feels he has a foothold in.

There is also a component of sort of anti-Shirouism here; I don't actually know nQ's scumgame and don't think/know if it's particularly weak, but I do feel like his ISO contains a lot of things that are easy to scumread but aren't really actually alignment-indicative, and I think the same was probably true in guardians.

After glancing through the game Ydrasse linked, I don't think nq has a hard time being quippy and feeling the need to look on top of things. I tried looking at guardians for him and imaginality, but I'm not sure it helps considering the nature of that game.

[Amazonian Legends]

Okay I'm losing focus. Started a Ydrasse iso which turned into looking at numbers and imaginality in guardians which led to looking at numbers in squid game. (Skimming mind you) which led to looking at implosion's read on both and I forgot I was trying to clarify my read on Ydrasse and now I'm tired. I'll pick that back up tomorrow.

I'll let penguin smack me around if I start getting paranoid on Cephrir and morph again.

Night!

[morph the cat]

I'll let penguin smack me around if I start getting paranoid on Cephrir and morph again.

Please record this and sell it on the interwebs.

[Cephrir]

Partially this is fair criticism and I'd chalk it down to me just playing this game in a way that isn't particularly focused, in general.

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable.

???????
I dont know that I liked any of this post.

[Cephrir]

. I do see numbers point about how he didn't refute the read but just pointed out that the reasons weren't there or weren't very good.

I still don't think I understand how these things are different. It probably isnt very important.

[Cephrir]

Yeah no still dont have the brain cells to actually comprehend the post density right now. Ttyl.

[Amazonian Legends]

. I do see numbers point about how he didn't refute the read but just pointed out that the reasons weren't there or weren't very good.

I still don't think I understand how these things are different. It probably isnt very important.

it's not I don't think.

sometimes scum get hung up on refuting the reasons as not being good enough rather than just being like you're read is wrong and dumb. And it's something I've seen, and done myself and got caught for, so that point he brought up I understood. I don't think it applies to you though.

[morph the cat]

Partially this is fair criticism and I'd chalk it down to me just playing this game in a way that isn't particularly focused, in general.

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable.

???????
I dont know that I liked any of this post.

elaborate?

[redtea]

ooooh fun fun fun

i suppose i would be interested in why he chose redtea specifically.

right so I finally have the time/energy to specifically go into what I didn't like in redtea's ISO

let me break it down:

330 - it seems a little odd to me to open by saying that 328 made you laugh while also claiming to have not read the game fully yet. There'd be missing context for what I was pushing fua for, no reads on fua/myself to interpret our interaction - like is that post still as funny if fua is scum trying to discredit me? just seemed to me like an odd entry in the game and something that's more likely to come from an informed perspective re:fua and I's alignments, rather than town who hasn't read up

it's funny because the wording was hilarious, especially given I remember fua being a bit more uptight in our previous game. Did this really warrant digging in to?

331 is a bad post. redtea doesn't give any indication of whether they are townreading fua, all they do is strawman the reason for suspecting fua and push against that strawman, while joking about themselves. Vibes exactly to me like scum who want to make a buddy in fua and also get a joking foothold into the game. The "conversationalist" remark feels like fake analysis, again there's no evidence of a thought process regarding whether town or scum is more likely to be "conversationalist", no evidence of trying to reason about fua's alignment.

332 is also inconsistent with 331 - if redtea only read between posts 248 and 330, and didn't read the beginning of the game, how are they making comments about fua's entry or their ISO? Did redtea read fua in ISO but not the game? why?

I did.
Because I was trying to keep ontop of the game while simultaneously catching up, and wanted to comment that.

Furthermore, I think my thoughts WERE useful- maybe only to me, but they are. I'm making an extra effort this game to understand the personalities and styles of the players to reduce my biases. That way I can "cut away the fat" so to speak. Of course those things are influenced by alignment, but I'm trying to find the sweet spot of what is probably just how they are regardless of alignment. Or at least regardless of alignment as far as I know, because I'm barely keeping up with this game god forbid I get into meta reading.

879-882 reminds me of stuff I do as scum to try to make it seem like I don't have an agenda, giving one opinion then immediately reversing it. it was also just an immediate hasty misrepresentation of my position, redtea acted like I was demanding a lim immediately ("we have 12 days left") when I wasn't.

It's cause I literally misread what was happening like 3 times or something? Thought that was obvious, as those posts are LITERALLY minute to minute.

as for a general pattern of play remark, a lot of redtea's content is in response to stuff happening in the thread when they are here, which indicates that they're at least reading along at some points in the game, but redtea doesn't give any indication whatsoever of their reads or how they see the game until 1209. I don't see proactive effort to engage with people or an obvious direction redtea wants to go for lim or pressure. Very much gives me scum coasting and not giving information vibes

I can't deny this. It's been a while since I played with a significant amount of wall-posters; with that kind of density i'm kind of in a weird loop of starting replies/not finalizing them because im not done reading/running out of time, trying to figure out something out of all that that I don't feel awkward putting out there, and then otherwise trying to make up for it by following along live-ish when I can. I realize I'm kind of a hot mess rn. Im still figuring it out.

And then 1209 is a janky post in that the questions/thoughts section doesn't correlate to the reads at all, as far as I can tell. It's also weird to have a "can go" category (which presumably means scumreads), but then a "flip would help" category for Tejate/Cephrir - what's the difference between "can go" and "flip would help", like is "flip would help" null? Why is that different than the "???" tier? I don't think that part of their post is inherently scum indicative but it sure doesn't show me a solvey/uninformed mindset, it's missing indicators of a town mindset that show me how the reads relate to each other or how they were arrived at.

Honestly I probably should've put the questions and reads in separate posts. The reads were after a session of power-reading.
Though I did say, quote, "I'm not going to case each read of mine, which I know isn't really fair since I haven't been around much to do so in real time, but TOO BAD. You can ask specific questions if you want."

Besides, I do think there is some correlation.
I question numberQ's #270 because fua is a town read, I'm showing how I see the town there, and thus opening up the question of, "now that you see how I view it, does that change how you view it?"

numberQ #273- this goes back to my "i'm trying to cut out the fat" thing, which I just phrased in a different way there. Maybe instead of "smarter play" i should've said "smarter town play". That would've made it clearer that I was shading Cephrir (who is in my bottom two tiers), but also giving a chance for someone more informed on his playstyle to change my mind.

implosion is also in my one of my last two tiers, and what I did was ask him about an especially weaksauce post.


And lastly- I can categorize my tiers how I want. Thank you.

[redtea]

shirou said that about my scum game?? omg

[redtea]

watch out GL i'm isoing you if that isn't clear

[redtea]

oh "maybe underestimating"
that's still praise
ok sorry enough live commentary spam

[GuiltyLion]

but I think if even with the reply above you can't see my point GL, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about redtea.

It's not like I don't see your point though. I know what I'm reading redtea off can be walking in a slippery rope in some cases, however having seen some of their town/scum games...I really do believe this tell is a decent way of reading them and that's it. (at least in this game, in future ones this won't apply anymore I suppose).

Even if you don't agree with it, can you see my point though?

I don't think my goal here needs to be convincing you to give up on redtea for the rest of the game at all, I think I would be quite satisfied in simply persuading you that Imaginality may be the better D1 elimination.

yeh, this is fine, I see your point and I'm fine with opting for imaginality instead

once I get an updated VC I'll probably vote there

I think I'm hurting for scumreads but that can be a D2 problem

I read implosion's town case for numberQ and it seemed alright, I do vibe with numberQ feeling like he doesn't care too much about how he's being perceived, but it did lean a bit heavily on that prior Guardians game and I have not bothered to read that game

if either redtea/imaginality are town then someone here is definitely a deeper scum fucking with the gamestate but I don't think I really have a solid suspect as for who it is

also, I totally vibe with pretty much all of Tammyhead of AL's reads, Tammy is seeing the game pretty much exactly as I am seeing it

[imaginality]

That was why I was trying to figure out how much I should be concerned about Ydrasse's claim.

Where were you concerned with Ydrasse's claim? I see where you were suspecting her and where you were concerned about fua's claim, but I don't see where you were specifically concerned with Ydrasse's claim.

I deliberately stayed vague about the reason in my post #713 ("I'm also suspicious of Ydrasse. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.") because I didn't want to out myself as N2 doc at that point. In the background I was trying to figure out how much her claim should make me wary of her hence the probability discussion.

[imaginality]

There seems to be quite a few people going "hmm well I guess imaginality is the best lim for today".

We still have another whole week to deadline, I think there's scum among the people who are taking that line and not continuing to look hard at other players.

[imaginality]

I'm also wary of Tejate proclaiming he was reconsidering me not for the reasons whoever said earlier about Tej being my scumbuddy, but rather with me being town, I see it as a way where Tej can look like he's unsure about my flip without doing anything to push another wagon and giving himself room to rejoin my wagon.

That said, I don't think the timing of Tej's reconsidering post is as suspicious as people are making out though (Shirou in #1494 and maybe someone else earlier?). Like Tej said it's not unreasonable to want to reread someone even in the absence of new content, considering it felt like the game was taking a breather at that moment.

Also, Shirou's argument that Tejate is trying to divert from me falls apart when I flip town. So to my mind there are three possibilities here about why Shirou is pushing this point:

1. Shirou is town and believes he's making a good point against Tejate.
2. Shirou is scum and thinks making it look like Tejate is a plausible buddy for me will help get my mislim over the line
3. Shirou is scumbuddies with Tejate and knows this attack on Tejate will be invalidated once I flip, making Tejate look better than if Shirou hadn't called him scummy over this, while helping them with distancing

(2 and 3 could both be true.)

[Shirou]

That was why I was trying to figure out how much I should be concerned about Ydrasse's claim.

Where were you concerned with Ydrasse's claim? I see where you were suspecting her and where you were concerned about fua's claim, but I don't see where you were specifically concerned with Ydrasse's claim.

I deliberately stayed vague about the reason in my post #713 ("I'm also suspicious of Ydrasse. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.") because I didn't want to out myself as N2 doc at that point. In the background I was trying to figure out how much her claim should make me wary of her hence the probability discussion.

This is the best post in your ISO. Your claim considering this is kinda more believable except...

Ydrasse's claim came right after I suggested perhaps we should massclaim except we could

lie

about it.

Why do you seem so confident that Ydrasse is telling the truth there?

In fact, even if I hadn't said anything about lie being permissible, why would you assume someone would necessarily be telling the truth when claiming out of the blue like that? It's definitely possible to be a townie doing WIFOM even if I hadn't said that we could lie about it, but it's

especially

likely and possible that it's WIFOM even if she's town due to the fact I said lying to confuse scum was okay.

At the same time this makes your claim a bit more believable, it also kinda reeks of TMI by how much you trust that Ydrasse was telling the truth there, which may be a sign you knew she was town, because as scum it's easier to believe what comes from townies is just the truth.

(I know you're considering "she may be lying and is scum", but the scenario I'm talking about is one where she's lying, except she's town doing it for WIFOM when some posts before she claimed it, I had suggested the idea. It doesn't feel you gave much consideration/thought to the possibilities here. )

[Shirou]

Also, Shirou's argument that Tejate is trying to divert from me falls apart when I flip town. So to my mind there are three possibilities here about why Shirou is pushing this point:

1. Shirou is town and believes he's making a good point against Tejate.
2. Shirou is scum and thinks making it look like Tejate is a plausible buddy for me will help get my mislim over the line
3. Shirou is scumbuddies with Tejate and knows this attack on Tejate will be invalidated once I flip, making Tejate look better than if Shirou hadn't called him scummy over this, while helping them with distancing

(2 and 3 could both be true.)

I think it's funny that you need to emphasize "2 and 3 could be true", which are the cases where I would be scum. You listed them as possibilities from the start, doesn't that mean they would all be technically possible anyway?

[Shirou]

if either redtea/imaginality are town then someone here is definitely a deeper scum fucking with the gamestate but I don't think I really have a solid suspect as for who it is

I also do think there's a "deeper scum" as in "active scum". My money is kinda on one of Ceph/Morph/Tejate at the moment but /shrug.

I kinda think it's still possible you're scum as well GL but I don't want to say it because we're almost getting together on the Imaginality wagon. Don't want to sour the mood .-.

[Shirou]

oh, I had wrote this in one of my tabs but forgot to post. I think it should have been the second or so post of this string but now it's the last I guess.

watch out GL i'm isoing you if that isn't clear

this is a weird post but ok

oh "maybe underestimating"
that's still praise
ok sorry enough live commentary spam

yeah it was praise

[imaginality]

Also, Shirou's argument that Tejate is trying to divert from me falls apart when I flip town. So to my mind there are three possibilities here about why Shirou is pushing this point:

1. Shirou is town and believes he's making a good point against Tejate.
2. Shirou is scum and thinks making it look like Tejate is a plausible buddy for me will help get my mislim over the line
3. Shirou is scumbuddies with Tejate and knows this attack on Tejate will be invalidated once I flip, making Tejate look better than if Shirou hadn't called him scummy over this, while helping them with distancing

(2 and 3 could both be true.)

I think it's funny that you need to emphasize "2 and 3 could be true", which are the cases where I would be scum. You listed them as possibilities from the start, doesn't that mean they would all be technically possible anyway?

I mean those two aren't exclusive