Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[morph the cat]

But also partially... this is incredibly uncharitable. My empty vote on you was the start of an attempt to sort. 462 is to sort you. 520 is to try to get a baseline of how to think about your play. 530 is trying to interact with you and you (temporarily) refusing. 632 is me floating something of yours I thought was scummy to see what others think. This is all literally in the first 1/3 of those 54 mentions.

"Not one of them is geared toward sorting you" is, tbh, insulting in its hyperbolicity.

I don't see anything where I feel like you've tried to figure out my mindset or ask me ~questions~ about my stances. Maybe we go about sorting so differently?

my perception is that you're scumreading or at least heavily distrusting implosion; not that one can't olive branch a scumread, but surprised by the conciliation.

I've reset to null on Implosion. I came into the game wanting to catch scum-Implosion this time if he is scum, but I feel like I wound up with a ton of confirmation bias. The way he's approaching this game is actually different and the parallels I was thinking/hoping I saw aren't really that parallel when I dig in.

The post you quoted happened after the reset. So not so much conciliatory as starting from scratch on the read, and not assuming the worst of the post I responded to.

[Cephrir]

The perspective slip thing doesn't really jive to me (I don't see why redtea-scum would lie about having read less of the thread than they have, that doesn't exactly make them look good).

I don't think I said redtea was lying about how much they've read of the thread? The point was more I don't understand how they could genuinely engage with things in the way that they did, if they hadn't read the thread.

i struggle to see the distinction

My opinion on redtea right now is annoyingly similar to Shirou's: they have the aesthetics in my mind of a slot that could easily be either alignment but is prone to being misread as scum if town. I feel like imaginality is a better shot for actual scum - to compare the two, they both have been on the sidelines of the day, but whenever imaginality comes into the thread it feels to me like he's coming in for the sake of giving stances or looking like he has them, and not figuring out stances. Whereas from redtea I don't even get the vibe that they care about appearing to have stances. Basically I don't get the vibe of caring about appearances from redtea. To be fair if they are scum this is probably the point of why they've been playing this way. I think it's the way imaginality's wallish posts have worked that gives me this impression, whereas yeah you point out redtea's wallreadpost is sort of all over the place/weird and it's like, idk, I feel like they'd want to flesh it out a bit more as scum. Kind of like what Shirou was saying of people maybe underestimating redtea's scumgame, I feel like redtea's game as scum here would have to be essentially very lazy/sloppy because of the pressure they've been under whereas as town I think it's easier to see their posting as like, someone just not all that invested/engaged in the game yet.

Okay maybe I actually do townlean them now that I write this out.

i am glad i sucked it up and read a paragraph this large. i agree.

I still have reservations on morph and I'm still sorry that I do. I'm not panicking and saying hang the blessed feline or anything. It's not even a scum read, it's just I still don't feel confident in the read as I would like. I do like a lot of what ffery has posted. She's shown some fire and punch when it seems like she would and I want so very much for this to be a town read that I feel super confident on. The pushback on cephrir yesterday when she posited that he was casting asparagus because when she starts posting her thoughts people start feeling better about her still sits wrong. But it could very well be a bit of annoyance that people who should be reading her better are hesitating. I know how annoying that is. I haven't had a problem with their reads or posting save what I mentioned last night with regards to me. Penguin has them at an actual town read and hasn't felt concerned by anything that cabd has posted. This doesn't mean that I don't want to interact or work with morph on reads when I'm very well aware that this is likely a me problem.

thank goodness for this. i guess i hydra gives you permission to post something like this and never act on it, but nonetheless. also, please don't be sorry for having reads, i say hypocritically

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

Why did you think it was alarming at this point when you have a harder time getting a townread on ffery this early anyway?

having to worry about their alignment is always alarming

Don't yell at me though!

never. this just gives me permission to have analogous concerns myself.

[Cephrir]

trying to figure out something out of all that that I don't feel awkward putting out there

posting shouldn't make town players feel awkward?

also, holistically re: this post - why won't you generate this many words about something other than defending yourself?

[Cephrir]

watch out GL i'm isoing you if that isn't clear

this went nowhere, i guess?

[Cephrir]

Also, Shirou's argument that Tejate is trying to divert from me falls apart when I flip town. So to my mind there are three possibilities here about why Shirou is pushing this point:

1. Shirou is town and believes he's making a good point against Tejate.
2. Shirou is scum and thinks making it look like Tejate is a plausible buddy for me will help get my mislim over the line
3. Shirou is scumbuddies with Tejate and knows this attack on Tejate will be invalidated once I flip, making Tejate look better than if Shirou hadn't called him scummy over this, while helping them with distancing

(2 and 3 could both be true.)

what uninteresting analysis this is, and to make it worse you didn't even offer an opinion about which of these scenarios is happening or why.

[Cephrir]

That was why I was trying to figure out how much I should be concerned about Ydrasse's claim.

Where were you concerned with Ydrasse's claim? I see where you were suspecting her and where you were concerned about fua's claim, but I don't see where you were specifically concerned with Ydrasse's claim.

I deliberately stayed vague about the reason in my post #713 ("I'm also suspicious of Ydrasse. Need to go back and get the quotes but I remember being pinged at least a couple of times.") because I didn't want to out myself as N2 doc at that point. In the background I was trying to figure out how much her claim should make me wary of her hence the probability discussion.

This is the best post in your ISO. Your claim considering this is kinda more believable except...

Ydrasse's claim came right after I suggested perhaps we should massclaim except we could

lie

about it.

Why do you seem so confident that Ydrasse is telling the truth there?

In fact, even if I hadn't said anything about lie being permissible, why would you assume someone would necessarily be telling the truth when claiming out of the blue like that? It's definitely possible to be a townie doing WIFOM even if I hadn't said that we could lie about it, but it's

especially

likely and possible that it's WIFOM even if she's town due to the fact I said lying to confuse scum was okay.

At the same time this makes your claim a bit more believable, it also kinda reeks of TMI by how much you trust that Ydrasse was telling the truth there, which may be a sign you knew she was town, because as scum it's easier to believe what comes from townies is just the truth.

(I know you're considering "she may be lying and is scum", but the scenario I'm talking about is one where she's lying, except she's town doing it for WIFOM when some posts before she claimed it, I had suggested the idea. It doesn't feel you gave much consideration/thought to the possibilities here. )

i don't care for it at all. i suppose imaginality's previous math post being wrong does match up with also not understanding probability, i guess

idk imag comes off as a cerebral type so it's harder for me to believe he was like "ah yes, ydrasse here is claiming for no reason because she is irrational"

[Cephrir]

Ceph has not been pinging my radar nearly as much, in either direction. His posting feels less directed than it did back when I was pressing him. I have very few notes about him up to page 42, except for his post 897 where he is very waffley on GL. And he says GL's page 35/36 posting "treads into eyeglaze territory" and somehow that's a scumtell?

i see you postulating scumteams that don't include me and i'm not sure how a few pages of not pinging you has overcome what was a singular focus before.

I have very few notes about him

literally the exact line in my notes

TODO to ISO him as well. I also noted down

COOL NOTES BRO

He can prove himself town by voting implosion with me though - how about it, numberQ?

i threw up in my mouth a little reading this

[Cephrir]

is scum this blatantly superficial?

sure

[morph the cat]

I no longer need to outsource my cephread.

Watch me be wrong. :/

[Cephrir]

whenever imaginality was casing implosion he sounded a lot more doubtful/uncertain than he is acting now

hmm

can i just decide to ignore the entire problem and vote nsg

later

Not gonna lie this thought crossed my mind as well.

This weekend got away from me and I’m headed to bed soon, so I won’t be doing much tonight.

I don’t particularly like the way that imaginality is bargaining with nq. I don’t mind that he’s bargaining, but the way he’s bargaining with nq about the towncred he’ll get if he votes implosion over him feels wrong in its presentation. I read backwards so at first I thought he was talking to an no that he was town reading with the promise of towncred which felt wrong but then it made a little more sense to see him scumreading nq as well, but the focus still feels weird. Eh I just reread 1561 and he is somewhat doing what I was going to say I thought he should be doing, so I don’t know, I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

the only counterpoint i could offer to this is that most scum would have realized that "bargain" was a spectacularly bad move and not doubled down on it.

[numberQ]

Ceph has not been pinging my radar nearly as much, in either direction. His posting feels less directed than it did back when I was pressing him. I have very few notes about him up to page 42, except for his post 897 where he is very waffley on GL. And he says GL's page 35/36 posting "treads into eyeglaze territory" and somehow that's a scumtell?

i see you postulating scumteams that don't include me and i'm not sure how a few pages of not pinging you has overcome what was a singular focus before.

I postulated a single time, and it was specifically about an association between redtea and imag. Wasn't meant to be a full team solve.

I have very few notes about him

literally the exact line in my notes

TODO to ISO him as well. I also noted down

COOL NOTES BRO

thanks bro

But seriously is there something wrong with having notes? idk what you're even trying to say with this

[Cephrir]

In terms of explicitly pushing redtea v me, here are the posts I found

ah, so you had fuck all and had to go back and impute. thanks for letting us know!

[Cephrir]

I postulated a single time, and it was specifically about an association between redtea and imag. Wasn't meant to be a full team solve.

more to the point, then - what is your read on me?

[Cephrir]

But seriously is there something wrong with having notes? idk what you're even trying to say with this

don't worry about it i'm just being a curmudgeon

[Cephrir]

at the moment, i have too many theories to count. i think redtea and imaginality are both posting like scum here, but i'm also like moderately worried about morph, ydrasse, and nsg. and i notice that of those 5 scumreads only 1 is actually posting lots (which may be an indication that i'm completely off).

but right now my leading theory is that these players are both scum, and i think it's smarter and healthier to test the "maybe this game is just easy" theory before i go off and wrap myself in knots

VOTE: imaginality

[numberQ]

You're null-scum, opposed to scum from before my VLA. Out of the last few pages where I've been keeping up, I haven't seen anything that stands out as scummy. Though there's a 20 page gap that I haven't read, so you're probably worth an ISO at some point. But current events are more interesting right now.

[numberQ]

@mod can we get a VC please?

[Amazonian Legends]

Red tea - this one is an absolute toss up. I don’t have a town read here, but neither do I have a scum read. I might have some thoughts about guilty lions push here when I get back from the rink and reread a few things, but I would not be surprised if redtea flipped town or scum. Penguin has reasons to scum read them, and I’m not opposed. Though I did not like the spoilered portion of the “wall”.

I guess this is just a you read? Otherwise why is your vote here.

The last time I talked to Penguin about it, she had an actual scum read there. More recently, she has a reason to leave our vote where it is. Our vote isn't needed on imaginability right now, and there becomes a time where our vote matters, then I imagine we'll weigh things up a bit more.

[Amazonian Legends]

thank goodness for this. i guess i hydra gives you permission to post something like this and never act on it, but nonetheless. also, please don't be sorry for having reads, i say hypocritically

To be clear hydra or no, I wouldn't act on something like that day one anyway. I'd have to really have a scumread I felt great about on day one to act on that, not just some simmering doubt that has kept me from being confident they're town, which can happen for lots of reasons that doesn't include them being scum.

I apologize because I feel bad when I think I should be more sure, and I feel like my indecision is annoying. lol

[Shirou]

i’m still super sick and haven’t followed has anything important happened

not a lot

it just seems more and more likely we're voting scum at the moment, can't say I'm 100% confident on it but eh.

kinda feels nice.

hope you get better soon ydrasse

[Amazonian Legends]

I'm at the point where I just want a flip, awful as that is. There's a ton of dense info (to me at least) in the thread, we've over sixty pages for a mini game, and I'm not at the point of wanting to go to bat for any of the leading wagon [candidates].

Tammy-talk time, I think?

--PA

[Amazonian Legends]

I still suspect the nsg slot. I did like that post I pointed out, but I still have concerns.

[morph the cat]

I'm at the point where I just want a flip, awful as that is. There's a ton of dense info (to me at least) in the thread, we've over sixty pages for a mini game, and I'm not at the point of wanting to go to bat for any of the leading wagon [candidates].

Tammy-talk time, I think?

--PA

I agree on the dense info. This game is way more wall-y than conversational. Especially given the #pages.

I want there to be an NSG replacement before we end the day, but I don't always get what I want in mafia.

[Amazonian Legends]

My redtea read is meh. They aren't doing anything to improve my read, but what they did post felt scummy. I don't think there's anyone on this player list incapable of pulling out a decent scum game, and the anti-town -- scum line is thin.

GuiltyLion has moved up the most for me this day phase pre-flips.

I'm at redtea > imaginality >> implosion >> numberQ off gut vibes for preferred elims in what's been tossed around. NSG-slot is thin, but it seems that low activity is NAI there, so not the D1 yeet barring true idiocy from her replacement.

I feel badly that I don't have a stronger sentiment about today's elim, since it's clear a lot of people have invested a lot of brain power here. Just not much that speaks to me.

--PA

[imaginality]

@Imaginality, I'm confused by these two posts.

Initially I thought you were saying that you suspect scum in the players who are pushing a you/red tea elim.

The second post sounds like you expect scum to want to widen the pool further?

I'm saying if redtea were scum I'd expect scum to be keeping the pool wider.
It's part of why I'm reluctant to vote redtea. It feels like no one has pushed back at letting things drift to me v redtea which to me feels more likely to be the case if redtea is town.
The second post is basically me saying "if redtea is scum then given there's two other scum who (whoever they are) seem happy with the game state, they must be fairly confident of getting me limmed over redtea."

Since I sorta doubt it's been that clear I'd be the one going down it's another reason why I doubt redtea is scum.