Open 844 – Cults With Guns [Endgame]

[the worst]

mm I usually tend to look for something fairly opposite from that in a bussing situation. keeping in mind

- this would likely be some pre-planned distancing;
- scum have tmi, and pushing someone who you *know* is scum is likely to come across as more confident (rather than less)

I actually felt like wave's questioning of fua felt quite sincere & genuine? He felt like he wanted tp know what they were getting at and by way of reciprocation fua felt like they were trying to win the conversation imo

Lol, what? How am I coasting by compared to other people, especially on page 3?

Obviously I care if I actually get shot. Literally everyone does. But taking a callout of a target at the start of page 2 seriously and getting defensive over it is just as strange if not moreso. If it was past 26 posts into the game and closer to the end of the phase then I would take it more seriously.

this is quite a hefty reaction to wave's original vote and totally I feel like it's attempting to discredit wave as first priority (which is a p intuitivr reaction to bring correctly called out)

I have been a part of many games where early defensiveness is treated as scum-indicative. Why would I suddenly switch up my general playstyle?

And I didn’t have two votes on me beforehand. This is a dumb comparison to make. Votes = Pressure.

This is more evidence of fua trying to ~win~ their convo with wave which doesn't feel congruent with scum theatre coordinated with wave

Anyway, I don’t think I need to explain to you why me being at 3 or 4 votes is a bad thing compared to 0.

ditto, default discrediting tone

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

This reaction feels more like wave is trying to get to the bottom of fua's stance to me rather than trying to undermine or discredit fua (which isnt a very natural stance with tmi). like if this is theatre I think they needed to go into it trying to make fua come out on top and I'm just... Not confident wave needed to do that? He also would've needed to reach this point in the convo and decide that despite fua escalating their tension that he was just going to pull back because his original reasoning for pushing them had kind of fallen by the wayside and like.... I just don't know. I feel like if two reasonably competent scum players decided to dive into theatre on pg3 of the game this is kind of a weirdly lopsided finale? there's really no closure or distance crested I just feel like wave is sincere the more I dwell on it

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

This is also weird if it's theatre - fua singlehandedly decided closure is needed and twists the knife in wave's back after he's kinda fizzled out of the convo for like, no reason? It just feels like they want to win the conversation again.

[the worst]

If I had to look for a partner without tprs I'd probably be more anxious of Stephen's interactions with fua (kinda nothingish, then really dramatic around the time of fua's slip/after, then fua talked to them itt). That pings closer to theatre fmpov but Stephen is also likely currently confirmed town

[the worst]

I feel like Flea is caught up on Datisi vs. wavemode rather than looking at the content which datisi and wave are looking at

@Flea, please consider - the last scum is currently solo scum. Anything they say from here out is just them trying to score eliminations to get to the night phase alive. Both alignments are also motivated by desperation after the explosion.

The only stuff that's really meaningful to solving fua's partner is what was said before fua's flip imo

[the worst]

I still really dont see scum motivation in enchant like, at all. It doesn't feel like they were scum with fua in the first half of this game. I dojt really care about their "if I were scum," / pseudo-ogi argument, i just don't think they're scum at all.

Wave, like.... I just don't think he's it really

I guess Flea is my wildcard if riding wave/datisi is faer wincon but there aren't really partner signs.

I think Datisi's opening was p wolfy. Im aware scum datisi is capable of interacting with fua, but the fact he wasn't around to just means he comes out on net zero points. I just feel like Dats has missed a lot of the more nuanced parts of the game and just really cleanly fits the bill of what we're after.

[the worst]

if people are around I'd be super keen to hear if anyone thinks I'm just epic wrong. aorn im probably voting datisi closer to deadline.

[wavemode]

and the more of this sorta thing. like my problem with this convo is thta it seems to be based entirely on wave trying to figure out some of fua's principles and core ideas of playing (when to defend yourself, is that scummy, how many votes is pressure etc) which like, are fine, but also they're not exactly conversing about alignments, they're conversing about game theory. now, not saying the two cannot be intersected, they absolutely can, but he seems to be doing it in a way that was purely game theory no actually alignment-related thoughts on them... doesn't help there was no follow up until fua got shot

you've made my own point for me here

why did fua have zero reaction to a vig saying they're going to shoot them, and then voting them? no response at all? not even wondering why? at all? when, if you're town, a vig shooting you here (or getting you eliminated) will literally lose us the game?

in a game where I'm specifically looking for people who are trying to fly under the radar and just make it to day 2, that's a big red flag in my eyes

so yes, I needed to understand this "why me = fry me" principle fua kept going on about, as it was their only explanation for what I saw as strange behavior. fua themself said, "you can check my past games to prove it". okay, I need to know what I'm checking for. because what I'd seen so far was inconsistent - first they're adamant that defending themself at all in any way shape or form is a bad move, then I cast a vote and suddenly they start defending themself heavily. sooo what am I supposed to be looking for in their past games? sometimes why me = fry me, sometimes they don't give a shit? like it literally made no sense

and the questioning was useful. their explanation for the switchup to defensiveness was that they were at E-3. their explanation for not reacting to stephen's vote was that they weren't online. after that was established, I said nothing. I had my suspicions, they had their defense. I wanted to see what the rest of the town's take on things would be. once other players get involved and take a stance on fua, that would've been, finally, ACTUAL CONTENT. not this endless stream of setup talk we've had so far. and from there I could've finally formed some stronger reads

what part of this seems so implausible to you?

it's also telling that your initial argument was that there was no thought process behind my questions. now that you're actually ISOing me, you know there's an obvious thought process, so your argument has changed to "well, there's a thought process, but it was all theory and not alignment related"

[Stephen A Smith]

VOTE: datisi YOLO

[the worst]

I'll hammer before super long tbh

[Flea The Magician]

I feel like Flea is caught up on Datisi vs. wavemode rather than looking at the content which datisi and wave are looking at

@Flea, please consider - the last scum is currently solo scum. Anything they say from here out is just them trying to score eliminations to get to the night phase alive. Both alignments are also motivated by desperation after the explosion.

The only stuff that's really meaningful to solving fua's partner is what was said before fua's flip imo

Soloscum is still vastly more informed than we are and still holds an advantage. I've looked before the flip and I've looked after the flip too as BOTH are needed to solve. I'm agreeing with Datisi though.

The discussion between wavemode and fua feels fake, there's no pressure, no push, and honestly they're missing the point more than stormtroopers at a target range.

Then we get to wavemode on Datisi, we have a "no but yes, do it" tactic, elitelling and pushing more on "no but you actually don't have a choice, you're doing it" - this feels to me like cult locking on to secure the night to me.

I retract my exaggeration comment - wasn't as bad as I thought on that front.
Couple things have annoyed me though - misgendering me and an abuse tactic being used.

[Flea The Magician]

I've gone through the ISO, hell I did the triple ISO and I can't see the process, that said it's gone 2am and brain is a butt though better than yesterday.

[wavemode]

have you read the above? of course I did not hard pressure, it was a flimsy read on page 3 of the game. I needed to understand more and get more content out of the rest of the players before making any stronger reads

and I apologize for the pronoun, honest mistake

I don't know what you mean by abuse tactic?

[Flea The Magician]

have you read the above? of course I did not hard pressure, it was a flimsy read on page 3 of the game. I needed to understand more and get more content out of the rest of the players before making any stronger reads

and I apologize for the pronoun, honest mistake

I don't know what you mean by abuse tactic?

Pronouns were addressed at the time, I am going to apologise for raising it again, sorry.

As for the rest, funny you should ask.

"No but Yes" - The illusion of choice. You can refuse - but you will be pressured and forced to the thing anyway.

in 202 Dats basically said "Do I really have to ISO you and spell it out?" to which you reponded in 203 with "No but Yes."

well, no. usually when someone votes someone else, they have specific reasons in mind. all I wanted to know was, what those specific reasons were for you

200 was pretty clear imo.

i mean exactly what i said. your questions towards fua are hot air designed to make you look unaligned. you're not going through a thought process while asking them, they're not guiding your thinking, you're asking them for the sake of asking questions. which part is unclear?

The "illusion of choice" is reinforced here.

seeing things for myself and presenting them to others in a way that's understandable by them are two completely different things. not to mention that the other takes a lot of time.

is this conversation helping you in any way?

feel free to take your time

yes, I really do want to understand where you've coming from with this

I relate so hard to Datisis post ftr.
Converting the shapes and colours of my mind into words is hard.

anyway

I will likely *not* be around

VOTE: Datisi this flips cult. this push on me was a last ditch yolo play. but now he's given up and is avoiding the thread (yet he's still been posting elsewhere)

do we get to vote Cook as town MVP?

Elitelling...
Ableism of this "tell" aside, the only time I really see it used is when the case is crap and the person pushing it knows it.

Then this.

"avoiding the thread" lol i am not about to waste half an hour of my life explaining to scum why they're scum. nobody else asked.

...huh? you really have zero interest in explaining your *own* case? against what you truly believe is the last remaining cultist? why not?

okay. you're functionally admitting your case is a fabrication and even you don't believe it. thanks for confirming

The finale of the Illusion of choice.
"You didn't do the thing I wanted therefore you are bad even though you had the choice."

It's manipulative, it's shitty, and you've exaggerated on what Datisi was saying to frame as cult.

[the worst]

The discussion between wavemode and fua feels fake, there's no pressure, no push, and honestly they're missing the point more than stormtroopers at a target range.

this stood out to me, too, and I think it's a sign that this wasn't pre-planned. If it's theatre then it's kind of bad theatre, and. Like. I guess if bad theatre is my weakness I'll accept post-game roasting for WKing scum it just doesn't feel like something that was coordinated at all to me

[the worst]

the more I read this the more I think contrary cases are more geared towards different quirks of personality than like, disagreement on content

this convo is slightly uncomfortable to watch and its not really helping me be sure

I don't think Datisi is interested in trying to like, find a higher truth than the truth he's currently expressing (sorry if you're town dats I'm just not pickin up what youre puttin down this game)

VOTE: Datisi

[the worst]

if I'm wrong I still don't really think it's wave and it's probably just Flea...? I think Flea reads a lot more sincere than Datisi is all

[wavemode]

gg I was town

[wavemode]

I feel bad for flea that their misread rate on Datisi remains at 100%

[the worst]

I do hate to be big-headed but I feel like I just trusted my vibe on Datisi & read on you more than I trusted faer read on Datisi

[the worst]

jks though lol I love to be big-headed

[Enchant]

I feel bad for flea that their misread rate on Datisi remains at 100%

What

[Datisi]

last scum between wave and duck. it's within the realm of possibility i was wrong on wave and duck just took advantage of this entire thing. logically, the same can be applied to flea, bit fae reads so pure so like idk lol

gl tonight stephen, you're gonna need it

[the worst]

I know datisi would troll me I'm fuckin calling this bluff

[the worst]

hes da-teasing us

[Datisi]

good posts, i almost believed that you don't know i'm flipping town.

[the worst]

I'm gonna stop posting because I think I'm just stuck in a bias circle but I hope someone believes u