Open 847 - Trust Fall [Game Over]

[Prism]

I liked how the trusts worked out this game, though I did hate quizzing everyone pregame.

There are a few hallmarks to Trust Fall that were important for me to keep. Individuals are given a lot of power in this setup, and one wrong read from one town player can make or break the game. Simultaneously, I think Koba throwing/trolling the previous iteration exposed that one town player can singularly strip away the decisionmaking of the entire game by multitrusting. Some suggestions to make other town "approve" trusts I felt were antithetical to the spirit of the setup, which empowers the individual.

The idea behind "one offer per player" was to keep that individual power/decisionmaking without letting any one person seize complete mechanical control of the game. I think it worked out well, but I'm open to feedback.

Spoiler: And for Enchant...

bugspray x enchant
let's make it happen
#EnSpray

Also how, Bugspray and Enchant has both already placed their trust vote.

They added this stupid rule after DkKuba yoloed 3 ppl at once (and left with scum) and i threatened to randomtrust every 24 hours if game will stall.

Probably makes sense.

Probably not and stupid rule then.

It's stupid, now i dying from boredom.

[Kuriyama]

I liked the singular trust per player - great change from the original setup.

Also felt the deadlines were nice and short for keeping the action pretty lively.

[Ydrasse]

i think one trust per person works well

[the worst]

Mafia, a game where player agency is crucial to enjoyment, is

horrible

when each player has significant agency.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nice game guys

[humaneatingmonkey]

my solve wasn't that horrible after all

[humaneatingmonkey]

take that kuriyama you anime

[RH9]

Well done and congratulations Town!

[RH9]

I agree that the vote restrictions turned out amazing. If I ever run Trust Fall, I will probably put those restrictions in.

[Greeting]

I just woke up and we won! Yay, well done everyone!

Thank you for the game, I am down to play again this setup. I don't necessarily agree with the trust limit, I think one should be allowed to rescind and change their trust offer up to two times per Day. It's not a big deal for me though.

[Prism]

I thought about that, but the actual number after 1 is pretty arbitrary, and you'd have everyone forgetting their limit, claiming to have forgotten their limit, mafia having to check the limits for fakes, the moderator has to keep a tally either public or private, etc.

My thinking with exactly one, no takebacks, is to put a certain finality to that individual agency I highlighted. It gives the trust more weight and importance even as I cap the multitrusts.

I think it'd work to have any number or unlimited as usually played, but getting everyone on the same page without getting distracted by counting games is a major headache.

[Prism]

(And fundamentally you still get the multitrust hijacking issue)

[the worst]

I think I would prefer Greeting's suggestion over the original setup. One thing that I don't think can be understated about Prism's refraction of the setup is how much it encourages a high standard of day-play. There's very little you can do, mechanically, to win this game. One just has to find their team (or their suckers) and work with them.

[bugspray]

replacements remove what little integrity the game has

[the worst]

you're welcome

eh in an ideal world we wouldnt have replacements EVER but they're just part of life

[Prism]

The scum PT has been released.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Overall, on the moderation side, I was pretty happy with this game minus the one replacement spree.

Thanks to everyone who stuck around, and of course thanks to Ydrasse, Kuriyama, and the worst for saving the day with the replacements. I hope you all enjoyed it!

I was very concerned by the discourse between HEM and bugspray early - both in the level of language and in the accusations being levied. It shot my anxiety through the roof when HEM pulled out receipts showing bugspray previously utilized similar behavior to further a wincon, but things fortunately fizzled out.

While I think players should put a premium on their own well-being, I was not happy to see the NorwegianboyEE replace out. Kuriyama stuck to critiquing play and was never even close to out of bounds. It virtually cleared the slot. Seeing them complain about Kuriyama's read on me in Divide & Conquer was also puzzling considering Norwegian went 0/2 for the entire 3 days they were alive, and actively discouraged scumreads on me, while I instantly killed Kuriyama N1 after already cashing in a giant horde of meta for a single-day townread.

Ever since TM 2021 anime theme i’ve valued my own enjoyment while in the game more than anything else.
If i stop having fun i’m out. Like however you perceived Kuriyama’s "logical" scumread of my slot. It stressed me out so hard i felt no more joy in the thought of continuing playing.
That’s just how it is. I don’t keep playing when i know it will feel awful to do so.
Gg town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like you could almost say i get PTSD attacks from that game at this point.

[Prism]

This poses problems when your dislike of a playstyle compromises entire games and wrecks it for other players (in this case the scumteam), but that is a question of long-term trend and for the site administration rather than myself.

[Prism]

To be clear, I am glad that you replaced out when you realized you hit that point. The price of game integrity

is

worth it at that juncture.

That generalization, though, once realized is something fundamental that should be addressed before wrecking other games in the future.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think i wrecked the game for the scum team with my rep out as you could argue it was for many reasons. Though repouts aren’t supposed to be discussed at all and treated like they don’t exist according to new rules so heck if i know how they impact the games, as the moderator team does not seem to even want the players to acknowledge that they happen and why.
Anyways, I lost my cool and felt like i would become real toxic if i were forced to contend with Kuriyama further. You could argue this was me imposing an quarantine on myself for the sake of the games best interests in mind.

[Kuriyama]

I am actually quite nice if you give me a chance

I changed my mind about your slot in D/C and I probably would've changed it here too possibly maybe.

You are right about taking care of yourself above all else - I will endeavour to be less aggressive in the future.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scum could in theory have argued that this was me repping out because i got caught as scum and ragequit.
I don’t think i made anyones position untenable here. And Duck was himself scumread pretty heavily at some point.
Scum by nature has to be flexible and adapt to new situations. You can certainly say that an replacement might have made the game harder for them, but to put blame on an person replacing out for changing the course of the game is something i take issues with.

[Prism]

I definitely credit dayplay for the town win rather than a specific replace-out's alignment implications. The slot wasn't even in any of the pairings.

I don't think that portrayal of rules on discussing replace-outs is accurate, but maybe it's tucked in there somewhere. I'm out right now and can't easily doublecheck. The follow-up discussions on the new rules were labryinthian, contradictory, and the moderation team repeatedly broached new topics and rules without recognizing they had done so. For all I know they outlawed claiming VT somewhere.

I think it's a good rule, and rule of thumb, if nothing else-I believe MU has it.

[Prism]

Other players, though, might disagree with my and your diagnostics on the game. I would take a look at the scum PT to get a gauge on where they believe they went wrong, whether I agree or not.