Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)


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Post Post #400 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:56 am

Post by Korina »

In post 392, Enchant wrote:
In post 391, Korina wrote:Killing a prime cultist is always good imo because it forces someone else to have to align with the cl, and act weirdly, so killing within vengefuls and getting the cultist out is good, because we have more people who are now aware of cl and have to maneuver weirdly to avoid cl.
:yawn:
Korina wrote:
In post 359, Beat wrote:
In post 356, Korina wrote:I still think killing the vengefuls today are good, because it stops the double-lim from going to cult
???

Explain this
Cult recruits a vengeful
They kill a prime cultist
Enchant govern-kills the vengeful d4
Cult wins

Or since we know there’s a scum in the vengeful, we still get to direct where the venge-kill goes without it being a scum-venge
Or cult forces paranoia like "ENCHANT IS CONVERTED CULT LET'S ELIM JUST IN CASE" while not really converting me.
Or really converting me.
Or whatever.
Also killing outside of prime cultists is a waste regardless? Cult don’t get recruits from non-prime deaths
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Post Post #401 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:57 am

Post by RH9 »

In post 400, Korina wrote:Cult don’t get recruits from non-prime deaths
Good point.
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Post Post #402 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:14 pm

Post by Nathann »

In post 383, Jacket wrote:
In post 345, Nathann wrote:
Bella can be Townie for not wanting to go within the CC's.


Cat has just had content that's pretty inoffensive but that made it seem like they're trying to have some sorta presence. There's not much more than that; I don't have a great case on them or anything.
This is really weak, I have no idea why you'd townread someone for a purely mechanical argument.
Because I think the Cult Leader is not within the Vengeful claims. So it's pro-Town to be wanting to kill outside of them.
Once again today begins this farce we call a trial.
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Post Post #403 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:15 pm

Post by Nathann »

In post 382, Jacket wrote:Worth noting: No progression or rationale on the vote, no case for why he now think Beat is cult.
It's almost like I later on said as such.
Once again today begins this farce we call a trial.
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Post Post #404 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:24 pm

Post by RH9 »

By the way, Nathann, even though you're talking to Jacket, would you mind quoting the posts on your rationale on Beat?
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Post Post #405 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:31 pm

Post by Enchant »

In post 400, Korina wrote:
In post 392, Enchant wrote:
In post 391, Korina wrote:Killing a prime cultist is always good imo because it forces someone else to have to align with the cl, and act weirdly, so killing within vengefuls and getting the cultist out is good, because we have more people who are now aware of cl and have to maneuver weirdly to avoid cl.
:yawn:
Korina wrote:
In post 359, Beat wrote:
In post 356, Korina wrote:I still think killing the vengefuls today are good, because it stops the double-lim from going to cult
???

Explain this
Cult recruits a vengeful
They kill a prime cultist
Enchant govern-kills the vengeful d4
Cult wins

Or since we know there’s a scum in the vengeful, we still get to direct where the venge-kill goes without it being a scum-venge
Or cult forces paranoia like "ENCHANT IS CONVERTED CULT LET'S ELIM JUST IN CASE" while not really converting me.
Or really converting me.
Or whatever.
Also killing outside of prime cultists is a waste regardless? Cult don’t get recruits from non-prime deaths
EXCUSE ME WHAT
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Post Post #406 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:56 pm

Post by Korina »

Killing cultists outside of the prime ones is a waste because they can’t recruit off of that death?
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Post Post #407 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:05 pm

Post by Beat »

VOTE: Bellaphant

I firmly believe this is the elim.
Has your voice been truly locked away?
Trapped in all these worn out tapes we've made?

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Post Post #408 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:13 pm

Post by RH9 »

Excuse me for this but can anybody explain why Bella is scummy?
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Post Post #409 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:39 pm

Post by Enchant »

In post 406, Korina wrote:Killing cultists outside of the prime ones is a waste because they can’t recruit off of that death?
Wdm the fuck you mean waste, we need to kill CL no more no less.
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Post Post #410 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:54 pm

Post by Korina »

Enchant, might I suggest just not talking to me for the rest of the day? I don’t think it’s particularly productive atm, and I don’t wanna waste time talking about it, so I’m just gonna politely ask
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Post Post #411 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:21 pm

Post by Enchant »

So instead of admitting of holes in your idea, you plainly trying to shut me up POLITELY. Just in case, i didn't even tried to shut you up and insult you. If your logic can't resist simple basic questions, then don't suggest, because badly thought ideas are worst.


And yes, there's big benefit in Not Killing Vengefuls, unless you somehow think there's CL, but it's not that.

Your answer also doesn't make sense. After one prime dies, i am in doubt forever, and i dislike idea where i am mislimmed because ppl say i am converted while i am not.
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Post Post #412 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:11 pm

Post by Beat »

Spoiler: Notable interactions of Bella, Cat, and Nathann
In post 25, Bellaphant wrote:I want to ask why to both of the above posts. Although tbf I am town reading cat for bad reasons.
In post 100, Cat.Jpeg wrote:
In post 98, RH9 wrote:Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?
If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?
In post 38, Bellaphant wrote:@nathaan, they made me laugh with their opening to enchant. I tend to find town are more relaxed and making me laugh has tended town before - cat was in a game recently where one of my reasons for scum reading someone was they made me laugh when we were both town but not that game.
In post 56, Nathann wrote:
In post 55, furtiveglance wrote:The short answer is yes it was a serious read, which makes more sense if you imagine it was a 9 player game (which I did).
Okay. Walk me through your thoughts on why three people voting Jacket on page 1 makes him likely not Cult Leader. (I know the answer might seem obvious, but bear with me.)
In post 101, Nathann wrote:I think Korina is a non-Leader Cultist. Their entrance into this game feels designed to get people angry and to vote them over it. It feels inflammatory for the sake of it. And since I feel like Korina is a better Scum player than that and wouldn't make such a stupid error, AND that they would realize it's in Cult's favour to kill non-Leader Cultists since then they can convert more.

And I'm vaguely reading Bellaphant as not aligned with Korina, so there's that.

RH9 is still my best bet for Cult Leader. His posts feel like he's genuinely trying to uphold a thread presence, but he's not actually saying anything helpful or Townie.
In post 107, Nathann wrote:Does anyone (other than Korina) have thoughts on whether furtiveglance's is Townie or Scummy? It feels like a post I
should
have an opinion on, but I can't quite make it out.
In post 118, Bellaphant wrote:114 is such a bad take on the situation.

Also, cat.jpeg is probably town. The vote on her is bad - I cousktn understand the set up stuff when enchant and korina were talking, but what cat says actually makes sense? Like, she's the least scummy of the three 'set up' talkers.
In post 125, Bellaphant wrote:I think they were cross about a policy elim/meme, not the votes themselves? Idek, there's clearly context here that they think people know but I don't.

Fair. Can you expand on it a bit? Honestly I've not noticed then produce anything and have lumped them with Titus/bbt

It's not scummy on its own, but the third time in four posts feels very hedgey.
In post 126, Nathann wrote:
In post 125, Bellaphant wrote:I think they were cross about a policy elim/meme, not the votes themselves? Idek, there's clearly context here that they think people know but I don't.

Fair. Can you expand on it a bit? Honestly I've not noticed then produce anything and have lumped them with Titus/bbt

It's not scummy on its own, but the third time in four posts feels very hedgey.
Doesn't change my point. They got meme voted because it's a Cult game. Korina is surely used to getting meme voted in Cult games. I just don't see a world where their first reaction to seeing that is going all rage mode and screaming at everyone who voted them for it.

Make note, I don't think Korina reacts like that as Town, and I also think Scum!Korina is good enough to know that the game is most likely to find such a reaction Scummy. So it doesn't make sense they're the Cult Leader. The only scenario where it makes sense is if Korina is a Cultist (who knows it's in benefit of the Cult for Cultists to get killed so that the Leader can recruit more), or
maybe
they're a Vengeful Townie trying to play a hero. My money is currently on the former.

Read Titus's and BBT's ISOs, then read RH9's. All of them have about the same amount of content. The only difference is that Titus and BBT are not pretending that they're solving anything. While RH9 has posted 8 posts, most of which are tangentially game-related (talking about the setup, etc.) but none of them actually get us anywhere. He doesn't have reads. Other than arguably Townleaning Jacket, who, IMHO, had not done anything worth unvoting at the time. RH9 and Titus/BBT all have zero content, but RH9 is the only of the three who is trying to look like he's contributing.

I mean. furtiveglance's not someone I have a great read on right now. I concluded that he is Townie in one scenario, and null in the other. I don't pretend to have strong reads on people I don't have ones, and I didn't want to leave that line of conversation without giving a conclusion.
In post 221, Cat.Jpeg wrote:I don't think Korina, Bella, or Enchant are CL.
In post 236, Bellaphant wrote:Bbt, it's a day one read. I'm also struggling for other actual town reads - like, it's you, cat and nathaan? Jacket's right about people being passive, I've put questions out that people aren't even responding To.
In post 252, Bellaphant wrote:Tbf I'd love a bit more pressure and engagement but what you've basically described is bella playing mafia, especially on day one. Titus, bbt and cat can probably confirm.

Is there anything specific you want to ask me about/discuss?
In post 254, Cat.Jpeg wrote:I almost feel like CL is in the vengeful claims
In post 347, Bellaphant wrote:I also find your push on nathaan and me weird. Like, you've decided that cult 'play like x' but I think nathaan is townie, then you've shoved me in the same slots as korina and Titus who've posted a lot less content than me. Like, there's a solid 5ish players that have between 30-41 posts, and then only you above that.

I think you might be jumping at shadows? I don't think scum leader bbt has this many casual bad takes.


The three musketeers at work.

Cat.jpeg and Bellaphant work with each other through a majority of the game. Cat.jpeg encourages bad mech plays which isn't anything definitive, except the buddy/buddyness with Bella. Cat has notable instances of discrediting ideas or players as well as Bella ends up not contributing a lot and mainly plays defensive of cat and bella. Their only real 'push' is an OMGUS and most of the rest of their play appears like obfuscation rather than curiosity or 'solviness' They play to keep certain players alive which I think has high CL equity.

Nathann is the mostl iekly wrong here but notably is closer to the other two in townreads earlier on (before they may have decided who will claim vengeful) and drops most mention of the others after that point. It reeks of distancing but I can't find Nathann's role in cults plan (and if this is the team there is a particular direction they are guiding the game towards) except perhaps as a foil/distancing.

I think most of the [abridged] ISO speaks for itself but if any part of it escapes you as to hwy I bring it up just say so. I will be back before deadline but this is why I want to elim bellaphant, and I haven't seen stronger cases on anyone else yet.
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Post Post #413 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:21 pm

Post by RH9 »

In post 412, Beat wrote:
Spoiler: Notable interactions of Bella, Cat, and Nathann
In post 25, Bellaphant wrote:I want to ask why to both of the above posts. Although tbf I am town reading cat for bad reasons.
In post 100, Cat.Jpeg wrote:
In post 98, RH9 wrote:Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?
If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?
In post 38, Bellaphant wrote:@nathaan, they made me laugh with their opening to enchant. I tend to find town are more relaxed and making me laugh has tended town before - cat was in a game recently where one of my reasons for scum reading someone was they made me laugh when we were both town but not that game.
In post 56, Nathann wrote:
In post 55, furtiveglance wrote:The short answer is yes it was a serious read, which makes more sense if you imagine it was a 9 player game (which I did).
Okay. Walk me through your thoughts on why three people voting Jacket on page 1 makes him likely not Cult Leader. (I know the answer might seem obvious, but bear with me.)
In post 101, Nathann wrote:I think Korina is a non-Leader Cultist. Their entrance into this game feels designed to get people angry and to vote them over it. It feels inflammatory for the sake of it. And since I feel like Korina is a better Scum player than that and wouldn't make such a stupid error, AND that they would realize it's in Cult's favour to kill non-Leader Cultists since then they can convert more.

And I'm vaguely reading Bellaphant as not aligned with Korina, so there's that.

RH9 is still my best bet for Cult Leader. His posts feel like he's genuinely trying to uphold a thread presence, but he's not actually saying anything helpful or Townie.
In post 107, Nathann wrote:Does anyone (other than Korina) have thoughts on whether furtiveglance's is Townie or Scummy? It feels like a post I
should
have an opinion on, but I can't quite make it out.
In post 118, Bellaphant wrote:114 is such a bad take on the situation.

Also, cat.jpeg is probably town. The vote on her is bad - I cousktn understand the set up stuff when enchant and korina were talking, but what cat says actually makes sense? Like, she's the least scummy of the three 'set up' talkers.
In post 125, Bellaphant wrote:I think they were cross about a policy elim/meme, not the votes themselves? Idek, there's clearly context here that they think people know but I don't.

Fair. Can you expand on it a bit? Honestly I've not noticed then produce anything and have lumped them with Titus/bbt

It's not scummy on its own, but the third time in four posts feels very hedgey.
In post 126, Nathann wrote:
In post 125, Bellaphant wrote:I think they were cross about a policy elim/meme, not the votes themselves? Idek, there's clearly context here that they think people know but I don't.

Fair. Can you expand on it a bit? Honestly I've not noticed then produce anything and have lumped them with Titus/bbt

It's not scummy on its own, but the third time in four posts feels very hedgey.
Doesn't change my point. They got meme voted because it's a Cult game. Korina is surely used to getting meme voted in Cult games. I just don't see a world where their first reaction to seeing that is going all rage mode and screaming at everyone who voted them for it.

Make note, I don't think Korina reacts like that as Town, and I also think Scum!Korina is good enough to know that the game is most likely to find such a reaction Scummy. So it doesn't make sense they're the Cult Leader. The only scenario where it makes sense is if Korina is a Cultist (who knows it's in benefit of the Cult for Cultists to get killed so that the Leader can recruit more), or
maybe
they're a Vengeful Townie trying to play a hero. My money is currently on the former.

Read Titus's and BBT's ISOs, then read RH9's. All of them have about the same amount of content. The only difference is that Titus and BBT are not pretending that they're solving anything. While RH9 has posted 8 posts, most of which are tangentially game-related (talking about the setup, etc.) but none of them actually get us anywhere. He doesn't have reads. Other than arguably Townleaning Jacket, who, IMHO, had not done anything worth unvoting at the time. RH9 and Titus/BBT all have zero content, but RH9 is the only of the three who is trying to look like he's contributing.

I mean. furtiveglance's not someone I have a great read on right now. I concluded that he is Townie in one scenario, and null in the other. I don't pretend to have strong reads on people I don't have ones, and I didn't want to leave that line of conversation without giving a conclusion.
In post 221, Cat.Jpeg wrote:I don't think Korina, Bella, or Enchant are CL.
In post 236, Bellaphant wrote:Bbt, it's a day one read. I'm also struggling for other actual town reads - like, it's you, cat and nathaan? Jacket's right about people being passive, I've put questions out that people aren't even responding To.
In post 252, Bellaphant wrote:Tbf I'd love a bit more pressure and engagement but what you've basically described is bella playing mafia, especially on day one. Titus, bbt and cat can probably confirm.

Is there anything specific you want to ask me about/discuss?
In post 254, Cat.Jpeg wrote:I almost feel like CL is in the vengeful claims
In post 347, Bellaphant wrote:I also find your push on nathaan and me weird. Like, you've decided that cult 'play like x' but I think nathaan is townie, then you've shoved me in the same slots as korina and Titus who've posted a lot less content than me. Like, there's a solid 5ish players that have between 30-41 posts, and then only you above that.

I think you might be jumping at shadows? I don't think scum leader bbt has this many casual bad takes.


The three musketeers at work.

Cat.jpeg and Bellaphant work with each other through a majority of the game. Cat.jpeg encourages bad mech plays which isn't anything definitive, except the buddy/buddyness with Bella. Cat has notable instances of discrediting ideas or players as well as Bella ends up not contributing a lot and mainly plays defensive of cat and bella. Their only real 'push' is an OMGUS and most of the rest of their play appears like obfuscation rather than curiosity or 'solviness' They play to keep certain players alive which I think has high CL equity.

Nathann is the mostl iekly wrong here but notably is closer to the other two in townreads earlier on (before they may have decided who will claim vengeful) and drops most mention of the others after that point. It reeks of distancing but I can't find Nathann's role in cults plan (and if this is the team there is a particular direction they are guiding the game towards) except perhaps as a foil/distancing.

I think most of the [abridged] ISO speaks for itself but if any part of it escapes you as to hwy I bring it up just say so. I will be back before deadline but this is why I want to elim bellaphant, and I haven't seen stronger cases on anyone else yet.
I see.
Though, I'm still more for a Cat lim today than one on Bella.
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Post Post #414 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:50 pm

Post by GoldfishFromTheMoon »

Vote count 1.7


Korina (2)
: Titus, Korina
Bellaphant (2)
: Beat, Enchant
Beat (2)
: Bellaphant, Nathann
Nathann (2)
: BlueBloodedToffee, furtiveglance
furtiveglance (1)
: RH9

Not voting (2)
: Cat.Jpeg, Jacket

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate


Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-27 05:04:00)

Note: if a majority is not reaced by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be eliminated. If multiple wagons are tied for the most votes one will be randomly chosen.
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Post Post #415 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:56 pm

Post by Korina »

VOTE: Bella
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Post Post #416 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:44 pm

Post by RH9 »

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg
I feel like she's likely to be Cult.
still doesn't sit right.
It feels like she wants to get a Vengeful or Prime Cultist limmed.
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Post Post #417 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:45 pm

Post by RH9 »

In post 416, RH9 wrote:VOTE: Cat.Jpeg
I feel like she's likely to be Cult.
doesn't sit right.
It feels like she wants to get a Vengeful or Prime Cultist limmed.
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Post Post #418 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:04 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

We got 12 hours to decide
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Post Post #419 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:05 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

That Cat vote is going to achieve nothing RH9, it's too late
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Post Post #420 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:12 pm

Post by Bellaphant »

@beat, that just seems like a lot of associations before a flip. Or that you've just got through three Isos and added a quote whenever we mention each others name -;there's no analysis of what's happening. Cats has just said they town read me and Nathann has told me the pro town thing to do is vote him! Also, even though I'm confused as to why Nathann being town is controversial, would scum (especially cl!Bella) just ride on others' scum read of him? If I'm cult and he's town, great - he is dead and might venge another town! If he's cult, cult get another recruit!

I'll take another look at cat.

P-edit maybe not.
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Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:14 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Nathan is almost defenitely Cultist, Bella. Out of the 3 Vengeful claims, his is the worst.

Check my ISO
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Post Post #422 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:35 pm

Post by RH9 »

In post 419, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:That Cat vote is going to achieve nothing RH9, it's too late
Would you want me to switch to Bella?
Though, plurality means that she's going to get eliminated anyways unless somebody votes Nathann or Beat for some reason or another.
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Post Post #423 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:36 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Yeah, I just noticed that plurality is a thing which kind of makes the 'no-elim=recruit' redundant.

I think Bella is the play Today.
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Post Post #424 (ISO) » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:46 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I'd definitely vote Cat if we thought we could get the votes.

Just worried about time.
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