Open 717: C9++ [GAME OVER:TOWN WINS]

[LaserGuy]

@mod: Are both halves of the hydra confirmed? Or can we lynch the Korina half and leave the other one?

@mod: Is the hydra only innocent child for Day 1? Can she be recruited by the cult after that?

-- I'm going to treat these as serious.
Yes, both halves of the hydra are confirmed. A hydra encompasses one player slot.
This game is confirmed as not being bastard and thus having no alignment-changing roles. I should think that was obvious.

[LaserGuy]

I think if you read again you'll find that neither of those questions were serious. Or I just fail at troll posting. Take your pick.

-- Both.

[LaserGuy]

VOTE: Kop

I like their pregame the least.

[LaserGuy]

HOLD YOUR HORSES!

Let's first make a strategic move. I think the best move for town now is for the masons to claim if there are any.

Note that

only the masons should claim

and not any other roles.

Can you pretend I'm an idiot and explain the logic here?

[LaserGuy]

Hi I finally get to play with you again

Good to see you

IC can only be in play if there’s 1 or 3 M’s rolled. If it’s 1, we have no masons, if it’s 3 we have two masons + us.
-Kor

I know that. I want to know the logic for why Dredd thinks this is a good idea.

Please don't answer questions directed at other players. We already know your alignment so it doesn't give us any information for you to do this.

[LaserGuy]

Cutting the road on scum to fake masons later on + gaming the setup for the exact formation of the scum.

Why do you think that the value of doing this so obviously outweighs the cost of outing two Town PRs on D1?

I'd also like us to discuss this quote in general:

Tbh, I have suspicion on you for RVSing us.
-Kor (to both)

Yeah I realized it will be useless anyways since you are getting the nightkill.

Is it just me, or does this entire quote seem scummy?

-Kor

I am not certain what to make of Oh Nyea yet. I think I will have a better idea once she answers your question about her mafia experience.

[LaserGuy]

@Gamma,
Do you have any reads at this point? I need somebody else with actual content to talk to

-- Why don't you talk to me?

[LaserGuy]

I don't think it was a scumslip, no. Her play is very erratic and I don't have a good feel for her yet.

Speaking of which:

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell for having alt activation problems

Hmm...

VOTE: pinturicchio

I am going to a secret spy mission so see you later, everyone!

Why did you change your vote to pinturicchio?

[LaserGuy]

Hey, sorry, homework and going out got in the way.

Generic Hydra lol. This is going to be fun.

For now I'll VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd because I'm not sure how a masons claim would help town in really any way aside from eliminating a few smaller options in the set-up.

VOTE: myloninja
this is scum taking the high road

I agree with this.

VOTE: myloninja

Where's the town motivation in lynching a confirmed town member?
I'll save you the effort, there is none.
Me and n33dl3 both whole-heartedly agreed that is most certainly a scumslip. You said you had 10-ish games, therefore, it's not a noobslip, it's you scumslipped.
Bolded is the reference of what "it" was.

@Laser, this post isn’t enough?

Honestly, I think there's a decent case for policy lynching you, confirmed or not. This game has only been going on for barely 24 hours and I'm already seriously tempted to replace out.

[LaserGuy]

Mostly prod-dodge. Weekends are usually bad for me.

Korina's troll reaction test is funny.

Vote Nyeo

This is looking pretty good right now.

[LaserGuy]

VOTE: Nyeo

Fixing tags

[LaserGuy]

Okay, quick thoughts:

Gamma, Hoopla, pinturcchio all looking pretty good.

I think JDD's mason claim strategy is probably coming from Town. The reasoning checks out, and even if I don't agree that it's a strategy that's worth pursuing, bad strategy suggestions are usually the province of Town.

Kop wagon makes sense to me. I get a bad vibe from him.

Ok Nyeo's content is so weird I don't know what to do with a lot of it. A lot of it feels so unself-conscious that I have a hard time believing it could come from scum, e.g. 26, 69, 95, 166. Some definitely scummy stuff... Voting patterns are all over the place. String of naked votes, including a self-vote. Is deliberately being evasive. Yeah, I don't even know what to do with this slot. If this setup allowed for a jester, I'd say jester.

Sesq's posting style is consistent with the last game I played with her where she was Town. IIRC she's pretty abraisive as either alignment, so I don't think that I can read much into her tone at the moment.

nyeo's town

Can you explain where you're getting this from?


Nobody else really standing out one way or the other to me.

[LaserGuy]

VOTE: Kop

L-1

[LaserGuy]

Doesn't SK have option of one shot bulletproof

Pregame choice of godfather or one-shot bulletproof.

[LaserGuy]

So, who wants to have a chat about this claim with me? I feel like my opinions about these sort of situations are controversial.

For the most part, towns are pretty ruthless when it comes to following through on lynching D1 VT claims. The problem is, most scum are aware of this idiosyncrasy and tend to favour claiming PR's, which creates the ugly D1 metagame of having PR-claims being disproportionately scum-heavy and VT-claims disproportionately town-heavy. Ultimately, if you want to have the best chance of lynching scum D1, you generally need to take a risk in lynching a PR. Most towns are adverse to this concept, and tend to play it safe and lynch the VT and keep the PR pool hidden -- this is a valid strategy as PR's can win you the game, but you're

almost always

lynching town D1 because of it.

When I used to keep track of Mini Normal stats, I used to record things like VT claims on D1 to check how often town/scum claimed that role respectively. IIRC, scum claimed VT 5 times compared to about ~50 truthful VT claims. In analysing the handful of times that scum claimed VT, it was generally done by newbish scum who didn't really seem to get site meta of claiming a PR to try and survive deeper into the game. Granted, I haven't updated any of these stats for more than 18 months, but I doubt the metagame has shifted significantly.

This is where I'll get Gamma to weigh in. Do you think Kop is a switched on enough player to realise that claiming VT as scum in this situation is suboptimal? Would you expect a PR claim from him in this spot as scum?

Also, unvoting while I do my some research.

UNVOTE:

I think there is definitely some validity to this reasoning. We had a similar discussion over at my homesite in a recent game (not the same setup, but a roughly comparable situation), and reached a similar conclusion... I think in a semi-open PR-heavy setup like this one, scum does have very little to lose by claiming PR this early in the game. We might end up lynching the scum!PR tomorrow, but it's still better than today if it ends up with a mislynch somewhere down the line, and depending on the claim, they could live even longer. I haven't played enough relevant games on this site to have a good sense of the site meta as far as this sort of claiming is concerned though.

Noting that it isn't safe to apply this reasoning to any future VT claims this game since if claiming VT will mean that scum will avoid the lynch, then claiming VT is now optimal for this game.

Also, Hoopla is Town.

[LaserGuy]

Also, Hoopla is Town.

Can you explain your TR on hoopla?

hoopla's tone is extremely townie. This specific discussion regarding the VT claim I also feel is very unlikely to come from scum. Scum has little to gain by attempting to push the lynch off of a true VT. OTOH, there is very little to be gained from scum!hoopla trying to save a buddy at L-1 in this manner. If the lynch goes through anyway or if Kop flips scum later, then he'll be under a lot of suspicion.

UNVOTE: Kop

[LaserGuy]

That moment when you open the activity overview to do some ISOs and you see that the mod has the 2nd highest post count.

OK, why is there a wagon on Gamma? I think he's town

The two people voting me are both scummy, but not because they're voting me. It's because neither has done anything else other than voting me.

I have good feelings about Laser Guy, UnaBombaH & Kop.

@Una: you didn't start the wagon on Gamma. Hoopla did, then you then Sesq

VOTE: Myloninja13

Again, not because he's voting me but because he did nothing else and also because 3 of the 4 I TR aside from the IC are voting there

If I wasn't already voting you, I would because of this post.

What's wrong with this post? Why are you voting for JDD?

[LaserGuy]

I would vote for Kop, but their wagon gained votes too easily. I doubt they are mafia right now.

Why aren't you answering the questions directed at you? E.g. here.

[LaserGuy]

I'm of 2 minds
I think lynching the VT claim is the safe choice as we don't want to out the PRs
But since my call for the Masons to claim was met by general objection I can see this one too to be viewed as advocating a mislynch on purpose

fwiw I buy the claim from Kop and I think if lynched he will flip a villager just like he said, but I don't know if lynching him is good or bad so I'm staying put

What do you mean by the last line here? If you think he's going to flip Town, what value do you think there is in lynching him?

[LaserGuy]

Also, Hoopla is Town.

Can you explain your TR on hoopla?

hoopla's tone is extremely townie. This specific discussion regarding the VT claim I also feel is very unlikely to come from scum. Scum has little to gain by attempting to push the lynch off of a true VT. OTOH, there is very little to be gained from scum!hoopla trying to save a buddy at L-1 in this manner. If the lynch goes through anyway or if Kop flips scum later, then he'll be under a lot of suspicion.

UNVOTE: Kop

I think hoopla is town regardless of Kop alignment
Not a fan of you switching tune on how you're reading him

Kop or hoopla? I had hoopla in my "looking pretty good" pile earlier (roughly Town lean).

[LaserGuy]

Intent to hammer

Claim please.

[LaserGuy]

Busy night. Please don't quicklynch before the end of the weekend since I'll probably barely have a chance to post otherwise.

@JJD: Why did you pick Campbell as your target? Also, any chance you crumbed your role or target?

My inclination is to believe JDD's claim at this point. His D1 play is very consistent with being a cop. The hammer was bad, but bad hammers D1 are usually from townies. Scum!JDD had no reason to hammer in that situation.

Trusting this for now.
VOTE: Fredrick

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy

- I've got a town vibe from some of his posts like 320 -- covers a lot of topics and reads in a pretty lucid manner and is clearly thinking about the game. But I'm also suspicious that he talks about Sesq earlier on D1 like this and then later in the day claims intent to hammer without reason:

Sesq's posting style is consistent with the last game I played with her where she was Town. IIRC she's pretty abraisive as either alignment, so I don't think that I can read much into her tone at the moment.

Intent to hammer

Claim please.

If you believe her play was consistent with her town game (or at best neutral), what was your reasoning to intend to hammer?

I had her as null up till 341, which I didn't care for. I liked most of the people on the wagon (I don't care for Ok Nyeo, but wasn't scumreading anyone else on there) so I was mostly trusting my townreads.

[LaserGuy]

I did not know the optimal play for a cop. Lynching fred then lynching JJD if fred flips town made more sense after that. But after JJD explained his reasons, I thought about it and came as very townie motivated reasons.

Una, what do you think about mylo? And are you good at scum?

You've never seen a cop get a guilty result or had to evaluate a claim before? You said you had played 10+ games on another site. How has this never come up for you?

[LaserGuy]

Una, if Fred flips scum would you be OK with lynching Mylo tomorrow?

What's your read on Mylo? Why do you think he's scum?

[LaserGuy]

You've never seen a cop get a guilty result or had to evaluate a claim before? You said you had played 10+ games on another site. How has this never come up for you?

Una, if Fred flips scum would you be OK with lynching Mylo tomorrow?

What's your read on Mylo? Why do you think he's scum?

His only vote seems opportunistic, he has been lurking and PoE.

@Fred

if JJD is lying and is scum, then who is their partner?

Why did you answer the second question and not the first? I have to assume you are deliberately refusing to acknowledge questions about your previous experience at this point.

[LaserGuy]

*Sigh*

This is such a troll game.

Off the top of my head, my reads are something like:
Town
Hoopla
Unabomber
Kop
Myloninja
Ok Nyeo
Ugly Duck
Scum

[LaserGuy]

Town!Fred - We go to night, Skum kills JDD

Why would scum kill JDD when he was wrong? Would not fred being town make JDD a scum?



Fred is probably trying not to give information. L-2 would be always safer just in case.

Sorry, good catch. it should read that if JDD is wrong we lynch him the next day. Again - late on a plane write up

I think there's a good chance this is a scumslip.

[LaserGuy]

Suspicious of JJD, Mylo, Una, Fred.

Why are you scumreading Una here?

[LaserGuy]

Not sure why Kop is suspicious of both JJD and Fred, did he think he was lying but still killing a scum member?

Also @Kop, why did you never answer this?

[LaserGuy]

I'm VT.

I'll go with Una.

[LaserGuy]

Una, if Fred flips scum would you be OK with lynching Mylo tomorrow?

What's your read on Mylo? Why do you think he's scum?

His only vote seems opportunistic, he has been lurking and PoE.

@Fred

if JJD is lying and is scum, then who is their partner?

I don't know if it's my brain not functioning as well as it should be, but that is a bit of a odd question to ask, I don't know whether it's down to how it's worded, or just in general, odd.

I find it very interesting that this pinged you. In retrospect, I see exactly why you might have found the wording "odd" (JDD was lying but not scum), but that you felt this phrasing was unusual in D2 is quite remarkable. Not necessarily in a good way.

[LaserGuy]

@laser

your Una read and

@una

your laser read, please.

Post-reread, I think Una and Kop are probably both mafia. Unsure about the third... was thinking it was Duck before the claim.

[LaserGuy]

Una claimed VT in 674

[LaserGuy]

we can now potentially work out the game from a PoE perspective.

This is an odd oversight on your part. If we are in a TT setup, then that guarantees that there is a mafia godfather. We need to be very careful trusting any innocent results even if we believe Duck's claim.

[LaserGuy]

Post-reread, I think Una and Kop are probably both mafia.

Interested in hearing what landed you here!

What interests me even further though, is your implementation of UglyDuck into this.

1. Why do you think me/Kop/UglyDuck would work as a team?

PoE and some associatives. Nyeo's play doesn't make sense as mafia, but I couldn't put her as Town until everyone had claimed since I thought she had a good chance of being SK (who either had bad luck with blocks/crosskills or just decided not to shoot). With SK largely ruled out, Nyeo is probably Town. Mylo is lynchbait. He's a useless lurker slot for sure, but I don't think he's even had a null read by anybody this whole game. Unless his buddies basically decided to throw him under the bus D1 and never interact with him or defend him in any way... I don't see it. I actually also agree with him here that having three people immediately jump out of the gates and say that he should be the lynch today is extremely suspicious.

So that leaves you, Kop, hoopla and Duck. Hoopla has been a strong townread for me since D1, so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. PoE leaves you Kop and Duck.

For associatives... you avoid the Kop wagon entirely, and immediately push off onto the Sesq wagon as soon as it looks Kop is in the clear. You do spend a lot of time providing a soft defense of him, though, and never follow through on any of the analysis of him that you say you're going to (e.g. this). Kop votes you in pregame RVS, you comment both before and after him in very short succession, but later in the game "just realized" he was there, and Kop has the same reaction to you This is weird.

Kop also makes this blunder where he puts you inexplicably as a strong scumread when he hasn't interacted with you at all or expressed any reason, at any point, to think you're scum.

You're joined at the hip.

2. If you honestly thought he was a likely part of a scum-trio, why would him claiming PR in assumed LyLo mean anything?

I'd rather wait until after he claims his results to discuss this.

[LaserGuy]

I just want to make it clear - I have no problem revealing results. I simply want to be sure it is thought to be the best line of action before I do so, since once I do, I cannot undo it. And since I have claimed the only role I highly doubt I will get the chance to divulge any more info tomorrow on potential gains from this night. So this is kind of the end of my contribution today, I just want to make sure it is used to its fullest.

At this point it feels to me like everyone is just kind of waiting around to see what your results are, so if you aren't going to produce those, I think you need to give some alternative course of action that you'd like to pursue before that happens.

[LaserGuy]

@Duck: Can you explain your reasoning for being so reluctant to reveal your results? I was figuring you probably had only one innocent result which was why you weren't keen on revealing.


Regardless, I kind of feel that the best course of action today is to see if we can find a lynch from the remaining players and leave coinflipping on Duck/hoopla for later. One must be Town and the other scum, so we can maintain parity in lynches by leaving that situation alone for one day phase at least. We may be able to test Duck's claim through further flips as the game progresses.

[LaserGuy]

I would also like reads from both Duck/hoopla.

[LaserGuy]

Actually, I agree with you Laser. We should leave Hoopla/Duck to test Duck's cop abilities. If we get mafia tonight, we'll see if he dies or not.

If he dies (and flips cop), Hoopla is conf!Mafia, as we hopefully didn't get two idiot power roles in this game.

If he doesn't die, he'll have another result, regardless if its real or fake, it'll add more information.

It's not only this. We can confirm both of them from the setup (as long as we manage to lynch correctly, of course). TT setup (Duck is cop) is Goon/Roleblocker/Godfather. TTTT setup (Duck is scum) is Goon/Goon/Roleblocker. If we lynch a Godfather, then hoopla is confirmed scum. If we lynch Goon/Goon or Goon/RB, then hoopla is confirmed Town and Duck is confirmed scum.

[LaserGuy]

- Scum needs one townie to misvote to win. A cop claim can't be disproved from a setup spec angle.

All we need to do is convince one townie and we win without having to worry about surviving a day of analysis

.

....Um.... This phrasing is disturbing.

[LaserGuy]

@Mylo: Where are you at in terms of reads?

[LaserGuy]

@hoopla: We don't need to lynch either of you until D6, and it's not beneficial for us to do so before then. If you're Town, stop worrying about it, start acting like Town and find the rest of scum.

[LaserGuy]

Furthermore - I am quite tired of the "claim immediately bit". These are 14 day game phases - it is not like we are pressed for time. Once I claim, I cannot unclaim. So I want to be sure it is the correct play to extent that I do it when it happens.

Let me be more specific then. Why did you think claiming at this point in time might not be the correct play?

OK well clearly this isn't going to move forward until I claim up - so just to be clear - do we want a whole claim now or just like the relevant parts? Is there any value in hiding the details from skum?

What details of your claim did you think might be worth hiding?

[LaserGuy]

Hoopla has no push on someone (that's not what experienced town players do) only game theory (for town credit, she already painted most people's eyes with that) and voting sesq instead of kop. Reading the day 1 makes me sure of Hoopla and Kop are scum team.

I am considering to vote Hoopla soon.

If you think that hoopla and Kop are both scum, it would be better to vote for Kop. See my argument in #756.

[LaserGuy]

Everyone's opinions are welcome - but the response I am looking for is from Laser, and no one should answer until they do. You were the one to promote the "not Ugly/Hoopla" lynch. Why? You said it works for Town, but no that is not accurate. It in fact statistically works out to the same thing, but while giving all the upper hand to the Skum. What was your exact reasoning behind promoting it?

I think you are missing the key point of the argument as to why we should not be lynching from you/hoopla today. By D6, assuming we lynch correctly, we are 100% guaranteed to have verified your result, one way or the other. There is absolutely no chance we can lynch wrong D6 if the choice is between you and hoopla. If we lynch from the two of you first, we need to lynch correctly three times in a row; if we follow my approach, we only need to lynch correctly twice in a row and the third one is free.

This is because the scum team has a different composition depending on whether you are in fact a cop or not. If you are, then scum is Goon/Roleblocker/Godfather. If you are not, then scum is Goon/Goon/Roleblocker. So if we lynch a Godfather, then we also know that you are cop, and hoopla is scum. If we lynch either Goon/Goon or Goon/RB, then we know that you must be lying and are scum. Your claim is verifiable pending future flips, so there's no benefit to testing it now.

[LaserGuy]

I may be unduly prejudiced by the fact that he hasn't posted anything but a prod-dodge yet today, but right now I feel like Kop is probably our best chance of hitting scum.

[LaserGuy]

My pool is Kop/Una. Not keen on voting anyone else at the moment

[LaserGuy]

I'm not super keen on letting Duck decide the lynch

I'd rather just run up Kop and see which of his buddies wants to bus for credit.

[LaserGuy]

Pretty much everything in the last couple of pages has just been WIFOM, and I don't see that changing any time soon, so I'm just going to get in front of this and go with my instincts.

VOTE: Kop

[LaserGuy]

That is L-1.

[LaserGuy]

Also, both of those votes are awful.

[LaserGuy]

I was going to go through your ISO and quote all of the posts that show why that vote is such BS, but your motivations are so transparently scummy that I think this is better:

VOTE: Una

Ok Nyeo needs to unvote before Kop comes online.

[LaserGuy]

Or maybe I'm mistaken... Interesting.

[LaserGuy]

UNVOTE:

[LaserGuy]

Only person not accounted for is Mylo.

Teams we can lose to at this point are therefore Mylo/Duck/Una, Mylo/Nyeo/Una, or all scum wagon of Una/Duck/Nyeo. Or hoopla is scum and we move forward. Una is confscum in pretty much every possible arrangement at this point.

Fine, let's see how this turns out.

VOTE: hoopla

[LaserGuy]

Apologies if we just lost the game

[LaserGuy]

I'm here and not immediately lynching.

But are you telling me that two PR's decided to fake cop results in the same game?

Duck has no reason to pretend he was faking claiming if he were scum that just won. There aren't really any teams that can fit here that result in a loss that don't include either you or Duck. I think we're good.

[LaserGuy]

I think Una is a safe bet for tomorrow lynch still, but is there any chance of the final scum not being Kop? I'm certainly not going to believe it's you LaserGuy.

I don't see any reason not to lynch Una tomorrow. Town!Duck is confirmed by scum!hoopla's flip, which means his result on scum!Una is also confirmed.

I think Kop pretty much has to be the last scum, yeah. I guess there's a few low probability cases where he might not be, but I think that those will probably resolve out through PoE. (I'm noting Duck's comments about me in #876, but there isn't really much point in discussing this until we see the flip).

[LaserGuy]

Anyone have anything to discuss before we lynch Una? Duck, do you want me to comment on some of your twilight posting?

[LaserGuy]

Anyone have anything to discuss before we lynch Una? Duck, do you want me to comment on some of your twilight posting?

Do me a solid - before we jump into that - is there a downside for town in you explaining your vote series from yesterday [Kop -> Una -> Hammer Hoopla]? If you don't mind sharing, I would really like to hear about that first if you don't mind.

Sure, no problem.

So I was reading scum as Kop, Una, and one of Duck/hoopla (724). For most of the day, I was leaning more toward you being mafia... that you were so opposed to letting yourself be confirmed at the end of the game was a huge scumpoint against you, since I figured that it was likely that you + buddy Una + absent Kop hadn't worked through the implications of a fake claim, and were blindsided by how it would work against you. Your point of view wasn't townie... you weren't trying to win the game for Town, you were just trying to secure the one lynch, and we wouldn't even get useful flip info out of it since Town!you would obviously just be NKed. This post was also a huge red flag against you... Kop was my strongest scumread. There's basically no scumteam that I could put together that didn't include him, and the fact that the people I felt were most likely to be scum (you, hoopla, and Una) were basically ignoring a slot that, were it Town, would have been a very easy mislynch, pretty much sealed the deal there. Your complete refusal to even consider the slot led me to believe that Kop was probably the roleblocker, and scum!you was trying to avoid having to manufacture another result on D5, or explain why you weren't NKed.

So, at the time I wrote 846, it looked to me like mafia was probably you/Una/Kop, and if you guys couldn't get hoopla, you were going to bus Una, so I wanted Kop. The fact that Ok Nyeo and Una immediately went for hoopla after I voted for Kop made me think that scum was just going to try to make a play on Town!hoopla having secured the vote of Town!Nyeo. Una's vote was so transparently a scum play... it makes zero sense at all for Una to be voting hoopla in that situation (he was townreading hoopla; Ok Nyeo's hoopla vote was predicated on Una himself being mafia, etc)... so I switched to Una in the vain hope that we could swing the lynch before Kop came online.

When Kop didn't immediately hammer, that implied that either Kop was not mafia (doubtful), hoopla was mafia (likely), or mylo was mafia (very unlikely). So I hammered.

[LaserGuy]

I'm fine with lynching Kop.

[LaserGuy]

There will be nothing gained from this day - i am not saying vote right now but really what we can learn from has already been said. The only exceptions might be from the votes of today (if we lynch Una, bc if we lunch off of Una and are correct then we lynch Una tomorrow and win.

The LCD here is Kop. I will vote however the two of you decide. If you want me to vote first or last or whatever, idc. But i am voting within Una or Kop.

I have my own reasoning that i will post back when i get to my computer - but that is where skum is.

I don't think the vote order much matters at this point. I don't see any way that you can be mafia here with Town!Kop. You had the votes yesterDay to lynch him easily if you had wanted to. There's no reason that you would ever have needed to bus hoopla.

I'll think on this overnight to make sure I haven't missed something, but otherwise I'll vote Kop tomorrow morning.

[LaserGuy]

I'll think on this overnight to make sure I haven't missed something, but otherwise I'll vote Kop tomorrow morning.

Like, I'm starting to feel comfortable with you being scum based on how Ugly works, but please try to explain why voting Kop is ever the right play here?
You either vote me today, or you vote Ugly.
We are the ones with a contradicting 1v1.

It's exactly the same situation as D4. You and Ugly are linked claims. One of you is guaranteed Town and the other is guaranteed scum. By lynching the third scum, we can confirm with 100% certainty which player is which through the same mechanic (GF!Kop -> Town!Duck, Goon!Kop -> Town!Una). I don't think this is strictly necessary at this point since I don't really see any way around you/Kop as remaining scum, but it's the optimal play regardless.

[LaserGuy]

VOTE: Kop

I don't see any way that he can flip Town at this point.

[LaserGuy]

VOTE: Una

That has been one of the strangest games I've ever played.

[LaserGuy]

I'm actually really looking forward to reading the dead thread on this one

[LaserGuy]

Thanks TGP for hosting. This was a fun, if unusual, game, and I am glad that you didn't ultimately reroll.

A few quick shout outs:
@Gamma: Wish I'd got more chance to play with you. D1 was kind of a gong show and then D2/D3 happened and you were dead Oh well, I'll look for you in another game sometime down the line
@Mylo: You really stepped up D4 and played very strong. It really helped having somebody that I could be confident that I could trust in LYLO and help validate my reads.
@Nyeo: You had some really impressive reads D4 especially... Apparently your super-secret spy training paid off
@Duck: That was a hell of a gambit you pulled. Thinking about all of the ways that it could have gone wrong (I was seriously stressed out waiting for hoopla's flip... he had been GF that would have been a disaster, though this wasn't super likely as I feel scum would have pushed you more if they knew the guilty was fake), I'm amazed how well it worked out. You definitely deserve a huge share of the credit for the win on this one.
@JDD: I get why you did what you did, even if I don't necessarily agree it was the right play at the time. If nothing else, I think scum was probably so eager to lynch you D2/D3 that they didn't really consider how it associated them and left them vulnerable.
@hoopla: You have a very impressive scum game. I don't know if we ever would have caught you had it not been for Duck's claim.
@Una: I don't really agree with your premises at all. We didn't post a lot of cases D4/D5, sure, but at least I had a very solid bead on you/Kop since early D4. I think probably more importantly, of me/Duck/Nyeo/Mylo, each of the four of us was reading at least two of the remaining three as Town, so the pool of potential mislynches was very, very small. D5 Duck was basically confirmed Town because there was no way that scum!Duck was bussing hoopla in that situation rather than allowing the lynch of Town!you or Town!Kop to happen. The same problem is true of pretty much any potential buddies that don't include scum!Kop. I think you're mistaking laziness for confidence here... as soon as hoopla was lynched the game was over.

[LaserGuy]

With the theoretical scumteam of Ugly-Kop-Hoopla, it would've been the absolutely correct move to claim a guilty on a buddy who had suddenly come under a lot of suspicion (along with Kop, making it 2/3 of his team).

But the correct play to counter this would have been to do exactly what we did... lynch hoopla and Kop, and scum!Duck's claim can be verified in 3p LYLO.

Anyway, hoopla also wasn't under that much suspicion prior to Duck's claim. The only person who had said they thought she was mafia was Ok Nyeo.