Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Sunshine13]

VOTE: the worst

Let's get this wagon rolling.

[Sunshine13]

I'm thinking there's at least one scum in {ofrhz, Sunshine13} unless one of them gets an avatar

VOTE: Mohab500

Sheep me, ducklings!

VOTE: ruru

they failed to follow through, obvscum.

[Sunshine13]

Erm, I mean, UNVOTE: ruru.

I wanted to lurk to victory.

[Sunshine13]

I would feel bad about pushing scioness with maximum Mathdino weight on d1 off of 1 post
I would otherwise sheep you, as I agree the post is more scum indicative than null
Waiting til everyone checks in

/lurk

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

[not quite related to things]

Also, are there any procedural things I should know about regarding voting around the hammer point? L-1, L-2, that kinda dealio?

[/not quite related to things]

[Sunshine13]

I would feel bad about pushing scioness with maximum Mathdino weight on d1 off of 1 post
I would otherwise sheep you, as I agree the post is more scum indicative than null
Waiting til everyone checks in

/lurk

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

why

Why not?

It draws attention and provokes reactions. Not something scum want at this point.

In saying that I did do an RVS L-1 in a mountainous reverse mafia (you were trying to get lynched) and was town read to my death on D1 as mafia, so I guess there's that.

cool sunshine is town, who's next

You and I will be friends forever.

[Sunshine13]

yo skitter how's things?

I would feel bad about pushing scioness with maximum Mathdino weight on d1 off of 1 post
I would otherwise sheep you, as I agree the post is more scum indicative than null
Waiting til everyone checks in

/lurk

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

why

Why not?

It draws attention and provokes reactions. Not something scum want at this point.

In saying that I did do an RVS L-1 in a mountainous reverse mafia (you were trying to get lynched) and was town read to my death on D1 as mafia, so I guess there's that.

fair though it was only L-2 and I would've expected town in that position to be a bit less vague --are you an alt?
if not what's your offsite experience?

It was the first RVS wagon and it was Sajj's first post. What could she have done to be less vague?

No alt, and I upon cursory examination, I have played 26 games of mafia. Holy shit. First game on this site since the place I normally play is pretty much dead used to smaller games (around 9-13 players) so I might try my hand at a bigger once once I get used to how things operate in a different place.

I'm not seeing how the post is more scum indicative than not. In fact, I would be inclined to suggest it's more town indicative than anything else.

It draws attention and provokes reactions. Not something scum want at this point.

Disagree. It felt blending-in-y to me. Like 4 other people just voted TW, so she might as well hop on cuz everyone else is doing it. Also it felt kinda weird coming from Scioness in particular - like it was an empty vote and I'm low-key surprised she didn't have more to say about the fact that a wagon had formed so quickly before joining it.

A'ight. Like with TW, what could she have said that would have made sense with that vote on that wagon?

You also said it felt weird specifically from Scioness; Why did it feel weird from her?

Would it have felt weird from any other players? If so, Who?

-----

I find myself agreeing with Math regarding roles.

-----

brassherald

I also have limited access (it varies, really, but to be on the safe side...) during weekends and on Mondays.

[Sunshine13]

I actually had a plan for if I rolled scum this game specifically to subvert expectations

Is no one interested in this

Yes, but we don’t know if you’ve subverted expectations yet. Patience, brah.

It’s a steaming pile of wifom regardless, but someone might bring it up when the jailor flips.

[Sunshine13]

PFP

I’m into this Mohab train, unless they can explain how tw’s post was fake and forced, and why - apparently - skitter disagreeing with me makes them a scum read.

Consider this an FoS, ‘cause I can’t be arsed figuring out colours and votes just now.

[Sunshine13]

If you call me English one more time I'll shoot you.

I may or may not be talking about the game.

[Sunshine13]

PFP

ofrhz is the only player so far not to townread me.

I like this.

I don’t like that they’re not doing anything about that.

Also, you guys shitpost a lot more than I’m used to. Though I’m used to 72hr day phases, so I guess there’s more time to piss about here...

Anyway, shameless kinda sorta OMGUS ‘cause you should follow the rest of the herd, damnit.

VOTE: ofrhz

[Sunshine13]

PFP

Hm indeed.

What makes you read ofrhz as town?

—-

ofrhz

Math recently stated Sajj was his top scumpick. What are your thoughts on one of your townreads thinking another of your townreads is worthy of the lynch?

[Sunshine13]

@ruru

for srs though

I mean if we can’t take your townread seriously, why should we take your votes seriously?

p.edit (presumably meaning pre-post edit?) I like to think I play the same as town and scum. I actually think I appear more townie as scum, but I’m biased like that.

Like I said before, I’m used to shorter games, so I tend to prefer people to form opinions quickly. It also means you’re engaging with what’s available in the game. I am experienced; don’t conflate that with me being good :p

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

PFP means “posting from phone”.

I’ll continue pointedly ignoring t-dubs. Sorry.

p.edit2: n’mind about math’s opinion regarding sajj, then

p.edit3: dudes let me post ffs

[Sunshine13]

I mean if we can’t take your townread seriously, why should we take your votes seriously?

My thoughts exactly.

I’m about to crack under the pressure guys.

Seriously, this feels more like I’m voting you.

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

I have never seen town ruru at work, but she is more proactive with her vote this game in comparison to her scumgame in Newbie 1859. It doesn't change my read on her.

I like this answer. Mostly because it looks like you’ve thought about it, referring this game and your experience with ru.

It also doesn’t quite answer the question I asked. Cheeky boi.

ruru is voting me because they townread you and I’m voting you. Thoughts regarding that very specific situation please.

I guess you can consider the following non-exhaustive list of points you can cover:

Is it a good vote?

Will it progress reads on me and/or ruru?

Should ruru be doing anything else along with their vote?

Other things, man, I don’t really want to have to hold people’s hands through all the questions I ask.

Is that why you guys do 10-day phases? ‘cause that’s going to be god-damn exhausting.

[Sunshine13]

we talk to each other and don't ignore people with our 10 day phases sunnnnnnshine (:

I will thus respond with a most non-committal (sp? weird word) “sure”

[Sunshine13]

I missed ofhrz’s response there. Apologies. Question answered.

I will say it’s demonstrably false I’m singling you out, though, since ruru posted that she didn’t think I was town until after I voted you for not doing anything about you not finding me town. If that makes sense.

I’m also pressuring her to get why she’s voting me for voting you, and not getting much.

Her responses make some degree of sense if she’s new, I guess... but I’ll choose to believe it’s scummy and you’re her partner trying to protect her with your responses to my questions.

[Sunshine13]

I missed ofhrz’s response there. Apologies. Question answered.

What did you get out of my responses?

Her responses make some degree of sense if she’s new, I guess... but I’ll choose to believe it’s scummy and you’re her partner trying to protect her with your responses to my questions.

This doesn't make sense though. Do my responses

only

make sense if I'm her partner? Do you scumread new players for not being as great in executing the Spanish inquisition as you?

I get from your responses you know how to answer questions, and now that you know how to ask them. Various other things, which you’re apparently good enough to figure out. Or I just don’t want to reveal at this point. *shrug* /enigmatic

Your responses make sense if you’re buddying her, also if you give newer players some slack or if you’re just trying to look like you’re active without revealing too much. The first one is scum-leaning, the second NAI, the third mostly just anti-town. I note you answered the questions I asked to the letter, not really revealing that much more than when you evaded the initial question, just with more words and a bit more reference to your experiences with ruru. Not a good sign.

I am disturbed by the falsehood I pointed out previously.

You also seem to think I’m being hard on her (or you?) but mafia is srs bznz, and this isn’t a newbie game. Should I let someone who might be scum slide just because they’re new?

p.edit: I am also embarrassed you’re townreading shitposters, math :p

p.edit2:

skitter

What I’m referring to when I’m talking about people not townreading me is they’re overtly doing so. Everybody was all “well sunshine’s town” ‘cause math said so, nobody questioned it. Then ofrhz says they don’t but doesn’t do anything about it, so I voted them.

This is when ruru said they weren’t townreading me either, and while you implied you weren’t townreading me when asking someone else why they were townreading me, you didn’t come out and actually say you weren’t.

This is also why I don’t like ofrhz saying I’m ignoring other people for not townreading me, as mentioned previously: when I voted, nobody else had said as much, and when ruru voted me, I put some pressure on her. You’ve joined that party, but I only have one vote *shrug*

I don’t mind people throwing shade my way, but I do mind when that shade contains nonsense.

[Sunshine13]

ok I'll do this point by point. sorry about long post

@Sunshine, This was your original question:

What are your thoughts regarding ruru voting me based on townreading you, then?

In my original answer, I packaged my thoughts concisely for you. I actually thought I was doing you a favor given how people don't like wallposts on this site. I didn't realize you wanted me to literally regurgitate my thoughts.

Your responses make sense if you’re buddying her, also if you give newer players some slack or if you’re just trying to look like you’re active without revealing too much. The first one is scum-leaning, the second NAI, the third mostly just anti-town. I note you answered the questions I asked to the letter,

not really revealing that much more than when you evaded the initial question

, just with more words and a bit more reference to your experiences with ruru. Not a good sign.

I actually am a newer player, so maybe I can empathize a lot with newer players.
Just went over the fact that I didn't intentionally evade your original question. After I realized what you wanted, I did give you all of my thoughts about ruru's vote on me. (How many thoughts do you expect me to have on 298?) You can choose to believe that or not.

I like expansive answers. I will generally strive to give them, too. If that results in a long post, so be it. It gives people a lot more to go on when forming reads. Brevity is something to be striven for, sure, but you also need to provide full answers so you don't get sucked into a back and forth of massive walls that takes time to write up and for other people to read and consider, when one wall with a proper answer will suffice.

You could have commented on ruru failing to substantiate why they're townreading you, in turn failing to substantiate their vote on me. This means, assuming the vote is because they want to lynch me, ain't nobody going to jump on that wagon, 'spesh since everybody is following math in calling me town. If it's a pressure vote - the more likely scenario - I feel no pressure, and the vote is doing nothing on me, other than frustrating me that it's not being used well.

Now, you're all "ruru is new, man" so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to comment on the context of the vote, particularly when it will allow them - and other newer players - to use their vote better in future.

You've said you're new yourself (how many games have you played?) so you get a bit of slack in this regard, but not that much, because you also seem to be quite a logical fellow. I mean, you haven't even asked ruru about their vote, so it's kinda hard for me to accept you're thinking about the motivation behind it while not trying to encourage her to think about and then explain it.

p.edit: you did that just now for their vote on draynth - arguably with a bunch of leading questions, though - but not before

I am disturbed by the falsehood I pointed out previously.

OK about this "falsehood," would you not say this is singling me out:

ofrhz is the only player so far not to townread me.

You clearly made a few assumptions (that no one else was not-townreading you) when posting this. But at the time, I didn't realize this. That is why I said "Additionally, neither ruru nor I were townreading you, yet you chose to single me out for doing so.

I think this was genuine mistake on your part though

." How is this a falsehood?

This is also why I don’t like

ofrhz saying I’m ignoring other people for not townreading me

, as mentioned previously: when I voted, nobody else had said as much, and when ruru voted me, I put some pressure on her. You’ve joined that party, but I only have one vote *shrug*

?????? I never said this.

You've said I'm singling you out. Surely that's implying that I'm ignoring other people?

Who am I ignoring? I've pinged and pressured ruru about it, I've pinged skitter about it, so I'm clearly not ignoring them. I am passive-aggressively (if that's even the phraseology) telling people who are sheeping math's read that I'm not happy they're doing that, so I'm not ignoring them.

I mean there're other issues with what I'm doing here that nobody's brought up yet - though I have just defused that - but eh, it allows me to tunnel you sans distraction.

I explain what I meant by "people not town reading me" here, in p.edit2, which you quoted in the second of the two quote blocks above, meaning I'm confused why you need to ask the questions you asked in the first of the two quote blocks.

You seem more interested in the reasoning behind me calling you a liar than saying that I failed to adequately explain to you what I meant. Why is that?

Should I let someone who might be scum slide just because they’re new?

Not at all. I think you should consider a player's experience when trying to read them. You didn't do this, which is why I think your read on ruru is wrong.

I put a lot of effort in any single game, but I'm otherwise lazy. I won't look into another player's meta. You told me ruru is new, her posts come across as new, nobody has disputed these claims. It has been taken into consideration.

p.edit(continued)

ruru

: can you see anything in Draynth's post that would suggest why they're reads seem generic or faked? (I will fully accept accusations of hypocrisy from others)

pedit2 well, some other content about Draynth's list too. I like that better than my question. You can still answer it if you want.

But then a mis-step. Slow down, and read things all the way through. Then slow down again, and read it all the way through some more.

[Sunshine13]

holy shit bad grammar i need to edit it holy shit arghlbarghl

That was obviously meant to be "their reads", not "they're reads"

[Sunshine13]

Why did humpty dumpty push his girlfriend of the wall?

He wanted to see her crack.

... sorry.

[Sunshine13]

I think you might be trying to tell me something.

I can't possible tell what since it has fewer than 4 multi-sentence paragraphs.

[Sunshine13]

I have her [ruru] as a strong townread...

Why is this?

[Sunshine13]

ruru

I'd still also like to know why you townread ofhrz.

[Sunshine13]

UNVOTE: ofrhz

I’m getting off this wagon. ofrhz is probtown.

Consider me on the Ugly Duck wagon, don’t wanna vote yet ‘cause I don’t know how many votes there are and I’m too tired and old and lazy to check on my phone.

UG: Those reads bro. Your main scumspect is scum ‘cause of frickin’

laser

theory, man.

Also not feeling ruru as town.

[Sunshine13]

UNVOTE: ofrhz

I’m getting off this wagon. ofrhz is probtown.

Consider me on the Ugly Duck wagon, don’t wanna vote yet ‘cause I don’t know how many votes there are and I’m too tired and old and lazy to check on my phone.

UG: Those reads bro. Your main scumspect is scum ‘cause of frickin’

laser

theory, man.

Also not feeling ruru as town.

bro... wtf is a laser theory?

also as a side note. The amount of hate I am picking up based on such a limited skum list should probably raise some eyebrows.

You missed the strike-thru. You’re scum-reading someone on game theory about 20 pages after the fact.

Double-you-tee-eff.

[Sunshine13]

UNVOTE: ofrhz

I’m getting off this wagon. ofrhz is probtown.

Consider me on the Ugly Duck wagon, don’t wanna vote yet ‘cause I don’t know how many votes there are and I’m too tired and old and lazy to check on my phone.

UG: Those reads bro. Your main scumspect is scum ‘cause of frickin’

laser

theory, man.

Also not feeling ruru as town.

bro... wtf is a laser theory?

also as a side note. The amount of hate I am picking up based on such a limited skum list should probably raise some eyebrows.

You missed the strike-thru. You’re scum-reading someone on game theory about 20 pages after the fact.

Double-you-tee-eff.

So when we skum read people day 4 for things they did day 2 that isn’t a acceptable? It only matters when someone said something in relativity to the choronological aspect of it. Yeah it could be 20,40, fuck ... 100 pages later. I found them skummy for it then and Nothing since then has flipped my mentality.

And i still have no idea what laser means then

It means you obviously haven’t watched AP

Re-written first sentence ‘cause I calmed down a little. I was not very pleasant. Probably should’ve edited more but then it would lose some of the impact and not actually express how I feel.

I’m super-weirded out by the fact you think a theory post 20 pages back, despite having oodles more content to sr the man for. You could sr him ‘cause I said he was a liar - yes I know ofrhz, you weren’t I accept that now - or ‘cause he thinks you’re other scumpick is town, but no, you choose to do it because of his opinion on what a role should do, which is about as ai as whether or not he smells like fucking fish.

Christ I am literally shaking with rage at how fucking stupid that is.

Just.. fucking wow.

Wow.

I’m going to bed.

The really fucking annoying thing is upon further consideration I can’t fathom how scum!you would be that stupid, so I can’t bring myself to actually vote for you anymore.

I’m also sorry for how I’ve communicated this, but seriously man. Wow.

wow

.

[Sunshine13]

Copulating fish, actually.

[Sunshine13]

Well, sometimes I like to push peope’s buttons, see how they react.

Total scumslip, btw.

[Sunshine13]

UD is n00b town, please no lynch.

Well, I will accept possibly really bad scum, but with two friends likely guiding 'em, unlikely.

I'm saying that while being 20 pages back and

still

pissed off with them, though.

You guys post a lot.

[Sunshine13]

Also reading mohab/nsg as town for completely nai reasons, leaving me 10 people to sort. yay.

[Sunshine13]

I don't know UD, however that post in which I got super angry with them? The lead up to that made me think they're new to mafia, and I don't think new scum would do that. Or be allowed to do that, unless they weren't checking their chat.

[Sunshine13]

I'm re-reading the entire game, will post reads and such when I'm done. Perhaps I'm going overboard though, since I seem to have 2 scum reads (AP and Oxy) and 2 null scum (Sajj and ofhrz)

I guess I just need to consider the two null scum a bit more... only up to page 15 so far, though, so maybe I find something to change my mind on everything.

I do need to know what y'all mean by "pocket" though. Presumably it's like buddying but more specific to scum?

Very happy you've stopped posting though, keep that shit up; maybe I'll get to actually do something other than read mafia forums after work tomorrow.

[Sunshine13]

To what "laser theory" was referring - note the underlining, denoting a link.

I said "frickin

laser

theory", meaning "frickin' theory", meaning "theory on the game of mafia" because you were scum-reading someone based on their personal opinion regarding a role that may or may not be in the game.

That was stupid, and what was more stupid was assuming that I was upset regarding the fact you were taking something from 20 pages prior to your reads list at the time and using that to justify it. This is why I flew off the handle, which would likely not have happened had I not been... well, me.

Which, if you have made good inferences up to this point, means I think your scumread on me is stupid, but that doesn't matter 'cause I'd say that anyway.

Continuing my reading.

[Sunshine13]

At least I'm still smart enough to know I'm not as stupid as you.

[Sunshine13]

B-but banter..!

Sarcasm doesn't transfer well in text, which is unfortunate since I made a sarcastic, game-relevant comment earlier in the game that some others took seriously. Whoops.

*hugs UD*

Ignore the sharp pain in your back, I'm not stabbing you or anything. /sarcasm, just in case people think I'm actually scum claiming this.

Alternatively, for tw's benefit, like, eff you and all that might, like, entail, brass. I mean sir.

[Sunshine13]

My case against ofrhz ages ago was pressure. Wasn’t pushing him for a lynch, and then null scum read comes from my inability to get a gut feel on him.

Anyhow, about halfway through (if you’d all stop posting anyway) and my reads on AP and Oxy are sliding more toward the townside a little. Scion slides further to the scumside.

ruru and math feel like the same alignment, probably town. Reconsidering my town read on UD based on recent reads list, don’t think he’d make a good lynch though since he seems a bit too easy to be a designated mislynch. Easy bus too, though...

Oh, I did want to ask if math is likely to bus a scumbuddy on d1 in a game like this.

[Sunshine13]

So I'm at page 48 and I'm hungry so I'm going to eat and then ignore the game until tomorrow, when you post another couple of pages for me and then ATHOUSANDOVERTHEWEEKENDYOUBASTARDS.

Current reads: ruru, pinturrichio, UD, AP, NSG (for nai stuff 'cause I'm bad like that) are all town.

Skitter is pushing my town buttons, but she pops up now and again and I'm not sure if she's engaging with the game (well... other players) as much as she could, and I agree with her a lot which always bothers me (nai but full disclosure n' that) so townlean.

ofrhz is all over the bloody place. Please stop this ride I want to get a solid read. I jest, it's townlean.

TW is making me uncomfortable. But recently made me feel alright, so is probably not scum. Maybe. The volume of TW's posts also puts me off sorting them.

Math makes me uncomfortable too, but he said why and I think it will improve so I don't want to lynch them.

Scion seems like she's not engaged that much with the game, so scumlean.

Oxy's scum. This has a lot to do with the oxy tunnel around pages 34 and 35, and an apparent unwillingess to consider they're mistaken. Also sheeping math at every opportunity, as well as weird circumstantial stuff around thinking TW is scum. It would be unlikely if he's scum for math to also be scum.

---

Draynth hasn't posted much, so he's proper null like, and I'm iffy on what to do with lurkers. Good D1 lynch, sure, since it's early days and if they're town we're not hit too hard, also limits the scum's ability to push them as a mislynch later, but we also rather lose the ability to vca and such because there's nothing to go on.

---

VOTE: Oxy

Willing to lynch Scion, too, but not Draynth.

[Sunshine13]

Well... I think TW is making me feel alright because they scumread Oxy, which probably isn't that great, elsewise they'd be my third scumpick.

[Sunshine13]

Oxy's scum. This has a lot to do with the oxy tunnel around pages 34 and 35, and an apparent unwillingess to consider they're mistaken.

I don't think the last part is scum-indicative for Oxy, for the record; he tunneled pretty hard in 1859 as town

I do think his reasons for tunneling in this game are super weird / often not really looking for actual scum motivations if that makes sense

He seems to be working from the conclusion backwards and is pushing for evidence to fit that, ignoring anything to the contrary.

It’s like me from 3 years ago

Also sheeping math at every opportunity, as well as weird circumstantial stuff around thinking TW is scum. It would be unlikely if he's scum for math to also be scum.

But Oxy thinks Md is town. What's weird about this?

This is probably a cultural thing but not something I can back down from. Math has said he hasn’t been entirely forthcoming with his reads so far, but Oxy has sheeped him anyway. Oxy can also claim it wasn’t him that got it wrong if any of his sheeped reads are incorrect.

It’s basically lazy play and not something I would expect from someone who appears more than willing to push players for content.

Draynth hasn't posted much, so he's proper null like, and I'm iffy on what to do with lurkers. Good D1 lynch, sure, since it's early days and if they're town we're not hit too hard, also limits the scum's ability to push them as a mislynch later, but we also rather lose the ability to vca and such because there's nothing to go on.

Willing to lynch Scion, too, but not Draynth.

Is SS higher info than Draynth in your opinion?

I haven’t read the last 10 pages or so yet, but I’ll say yes, in the sense you can see more if you cover one eye rather than both. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.

[Sunshine13]

Noting that ofrhz isn’t on that wagon, of course. Look forward to your case <3

For srs, there are four people on it, and you think the majority of the scum team would make up the majority of a wagon that math’s abandoned?

[Sunshine13]

Wait, wait. Iso’d Oxy for the lulz.

At what point did you a) stop townreading me (sans evidence) and b) start scumreading me (sans evidence)?

Also, your scumreads at this point are me, ofrhz and... TW? Bearing in mind the last 10 pages remain unread, excepting your iso’d posts.

[Sunshine13]

@tw

It’s weird. It goes from essentially locktown reading him - to the point of voting with math on one of oxy’s townreads instead of his top scumpick - and what looks like hardcore buddying to be perfectly honest for 100+ posts, then his 162nd post he goes “well, if I missed scum it’s probably math, but after sunshine” while also gushing about his play so far, though I’m uncertain if this is in the context of pintu asking him to think of ofrhz as town, and has appeared concerned regarding this since.

Link for reference.

So... not much progression at all, really.

I’m thinking math was playing with him for a bit, and then he realized this and is trying to back off a little. What I really want is for it to have been in the scum chat that one of his partners was like “uh, math is playing games with you bro, maybe step off the gas a bit?” and they’re frantically thinking how to make it look natural for Oxy to be slowly reversing from that.
—-
Pedit: salty sailor, lol. So to answer your question, I mean, like, well,

You’re not voting for any of your scumpicks, right now. Cool beans you’re being wagoned, but you’ve been pushing a tw ofrhz scumteam for effing ever, man. I appreciate the attention to detail in trying to piss me off with some “you’re an idiot, sunshine” posts, hoping to get me to respond like I did with UD, though. Love your work <3

Also the aforementioned time when you were voting one of your townreads because math was voting them. Let’s vote UD!

But why?

‘cause math and co are too! I take no responsibility for my reads, nosiree!

One more thing, what does this post mean if you’re not scumreading me? It looks to be referring to the wagon against you math quoted a few posts prior, but ofrhz isn’t on the wagon and you claim to be townreading me. Another player you have pushed as scum for the longest time is on it, as well as the person you are currently voting... so I’m confused.

So what do you mean by it being the bottom of your reads list?

[Sunshine13]

Everything after the pedit is @oxy btw

[Sunshine13]

In case it wasn’t obvious

[Sunshine13]

Well I don’t particularly think using your vote thus is town motivated, since voting is the only way we can get scum.

Also, in that instance, you were completely alleviating the responsibility of your vote to people you don’t know are town, my non-omniscient friend. In the end, you’re the one that gets judged for it, not them. Sheeping a few days in when flips and claims happen? Bit better, still not ideal imo. D1 sheeping with no N0? You don’t care where your vote is, because you’re not town.

Draynth’s an easy lynch. Lurked for most of the day, ain’t nobody going to tell you you’re wrong.

Pedit

@skitter

That last paragraph is a pipe dream. It’s how I hope it went down in scumchat.

[Sunshine13]

Also, in that instance, you were completely alleviating the responsibility of your vote to people you don’t know are town, my non-omniscient friend. In the end, you’re the one that gets judged for it, not them. Sheeping a few days in when flips and claims happen? Bit better, still not ideal imo. D1 sheeping with no N0? You don’t care where your vote is, because you’re not town.

Bro, my vote is fucking mine. I knew where it was, and I knew when I would be looking at the thread. And that vote wasn't going to be a part of a lynch unless I meant it to. I didn't exactly put him in danger of a lynch, did I?

Calm your shit, Gerald. Your vote is your voice; if you’re going to be slapping votes on people because you have no opinions, or because you’re scared of getting lynched, or because you’re pouting, I’m going to think you don’t give a shit what it’s saying because you don’t give a shit who goes down as a result, regardless of whether or not your vote is causing lynches or not.

Also, tf is a universal null read going to tell us when it flips? That nobody likes lurkers, and scum are okay with losing a potential mislynch candidate for later. Stellar.

[Sunshine13]

@sunshine My vote being my voice is exactly why I put my vote where I did. Just because your vote is monotonous, does not mean others have to use it that way.

You sure seem to be confident that Draynth will flip town... Why is that?

I’d like you to answer your own question.

[Sunshine13]

tbf I am reconsidering my scum read on oxy.

Basically my gut says town while my mind is saying scum. 1554, for example, feels like it comes from town. The frustration is real. However, town shouldn't give a poop about being read as town because they're trying to find scum.

Pedit: what information are we going to get from a Draynth lynch?

[Sunshine13]

Of all the lunches we could make today, Draynth’s is the least informative. Is anyone actually scumreading him?

[Sunshine13]

Okay then.

On what basis is he your top scumpick.

[Sunshine13]

I’m computer illiterate summarize for me.

[Sunshine13]

Nothing changed for me.

[Sunshine13]

Sunshine moved down because he's voting me even though he gut town reads me because he's worried about getting information more than he's worried about lynching scum.

Is Draynth scum?

[Sunshine13]

You see that’s the problem, I want to lynch you because you’re scum. Draynth I know nothing about, but I do know that you - scum - is voting for him, therefore he is, more likely than not, town.

From that, Draynth is town that nobody has a read on, so it’s objectively the worst mislynch we could possibly have for getting information into the game. That is where I’ve been coming from. That’s what I mean by low information lynch. I shouldn’t have to spell that out.

Also, please stop with “my play in this situation is pro-town so I must be town!” because scum don’t exactly roll over and die when they get wagoned, do they?

Look at ofrhz, likely vig target and your scumread. He claimed VT, so he must be town because that’s what town would do in that situation, right?

Pedit: Why is it scummy that I think differently?

[Sunshine13]

Also, please stop with “my play in this situation is pro-town so I must be town!” because scum don’t exactly roll over and die when they get wagoned, do they?

I perceived you to be preparing to call me a hypocrite. I was defending against that. It just so happens to be pro-town.

I no longer wish to hammer my head against this wall, I am sore and the visions are disturbing.

[Sunshine13]

Okay then.

I’m actually alright with this.

VOTE: math

L-1

[Sunshine13]

Bearing in mind that would mean that 2/3 of the scum team are presently on the math wagon, and the third member has just informed us of their intent to hammer.

[Sunshine13]

1)Sunshine is experienced
2)We have no meta on him
3)Some of his ideas have made me think, "huh, that doesn't make sense coming from an experienced player" e.g., his focus on +information lynches
4) 1+3 could imply that he comes from a community that is simply bad at this game, or it could imply a scum motivation
5) He has been hyper sensitive of scum/town reads on him all game (from his ofrhz push to him thinking that I was scum reading him when I wasn't.)

There's more, but I don't really want to case him until D2

1. NAI
2. NAI
3. We know that singular example you give was because I think you're scum, meaning the lynch we were getting was a -information mislynch, which is stupid. Explain how that's anti-town from outside your perspective as the other wagon at that point.
4. I'll let them know that they're bad for 3. Also, everyone with lots of games and no meta is obvscum?
5. ofrhz was a pressure thing (caused from annoyance at people sheeping math on my townread without reason, nobody was explaining that so I'd get something going with the opposite) and you're scum so yeah you're going to make people voting you look bad. Obvious OMGUS is obvious.

I mean if this is the basis of the case for D2, I'll see y'all in D3.

[Sunshine13]

1 and 2 were the context in which to read 3, 4, and 5.

You still seem hypersensitive of scum cases on you

And it's especially odd considering you think I'm scum

What scum cases have been brought against me, other your own, that I've been hypersensitive about?

I'm hypersensitive about your case because you're scum, and didn't start scumreading me until that became obvious, looking for any reason to drop me further and further down your reads list.

Like I said, obvious OMGUS is obvious.

But I'll bite, because I want to see how much more you have to say about it.

Why is it odd, considering I think you're scum?

Sunshine do you think Md+Oxy is plausible?

Math hasn't really responded to much of Oxy's buddying, and he's quite clever. Best way to distance yourself from someone is have them buddy you and then be de-facto cleared by the rest of the players because scum wouldn't buddy scum.

[Sunshine13]

I'm kind of surprised you think I care what you think about me at this point, m80.

However, I do care about one thing. Perhaps you can talk us through what you expect to happen to math - town!math and scum!math - from this point until the start of D2. Loosely, basically whether or not he gets lynched, and whether or not he gets NK'd as each alignment. Maybe throw in why you think each thing, too. Preferably lay it out so you're talking about each one separately; I'm lazy.

For extra credit you can also tell us what associations you can draw for each one, too.

[Sunshine13]

Remembering that we think there's a vig in there too, just in case you get smart and say scum!math won't get NK'd 'cause he's on the scum team.

[Sunshine13]

Might help you to take your blinkers off once in a while, friend.

[Sunshine13]

Welp.

VOTE: Oxy

[Sunshine13]

Fiiiiiine

UNVOTE: oxy

[Sunshine13]

There is a negative correlation between the length of D1 and the amount of fun I’m having. That’s pretty much what the deterioration in my play represents.

I love how I’m apparently capable of doing some 8-dimensional chess stuff, though. Love you guys <3

Pedit: for srs that was real anger.

[Sunshine13]

Well, I mean, this seems a bit of a pointless discussion, figuring out who the PRs are for scum to NK.

[Sunshine13]

I’d buy pintu’s theory if I didn’t know he was at least half wrong. /change of subject

[Sunshine13]

I know he’s at least half wrong: two people being touted as scum team.

I mean I was hoping someone would say “which half” but that would just be for my own amusement and wouldn’t go anywhere.

But I do understand the freefall in folk’s read of me, so I guess I should do something about that.

I’m just so lazy and really just want to park my butt on an Oxy wagon but that’s no good. I’m unwilling to eat humble pie, but it’s for the best I guess...

As for this, I felt the same way skitter did about AP, and I’m not really convinced this is a particularly great move, unless we’re trying to out all the prs on D1?

[Sunshine13]

Such a passive-aggresaurus.

Seriously though, why AP.

Pedit: I know he didn’t take it seriously, I’m acknowledging that I deserve it :p

[Sunshine13]

@math Of those, I’m willing to go for N_M and skitter, in that order. But I’d rather not lynch skitter ‘cause she’s actually making an effort.

Would rather N_M, you know, actually post something first, though.

[Sunshine13]

I’m sorry.

Pedit: Younglings are still learning.

Not that the pictured one learned much.

[Sunshine13]

That’s a bit racist.

[Sunshine13]

There is the potential that the vig killed tw, while scum decided to sit back and amuse themselves doing whatever scum do when they're not murdering people in the night. But that would be all kinds of silly.

Anyhow, I have a preliminary over-confident scumpool, but not sure what the plan is for how this information is coming out.

[Sunshine13]

It would also be vanishingly unlikely that Draynth would be the one performing the kill if he is scum, given the shade he received and the pr claim to get that off him.

Though I guess it depends how you guys round here treat JK. Is it seen more as a roleblock or a protect, or is it individual’s choice?

[Sunshine13]

If there’s a jk, it would probably mean there were no scum on math’s wagon as to avoid him outing himself.

Contextually appropriate play would be to protect math, meaning scum would be looking for the jk. You have a 1 in 3 chance of blocking the kill, versus a guarantee of protecting town.

Would scum be silly enough to put an IC and a jk in the game though?

[Sunshine13]

If there’s scum there as no more than one, and they would be in the latter part of the wagon.

[Sunshine13]

Ahaha that would assume scum knew math was ic prior to him outing never mind.

[Sunshine13]

I know I know.

[Sunshine13]

Other scum on the wagon could be Oxy or skitter, but skitter moves from NM to Draynth, so unless she’s bussing both her teammates...

I mean I alluded earlier about my early-D2-overconfidence scum team, which I will reveal as NM, NSG, and Oxy. I’m not confident on Oxy though.

[Sunshine13]

Well that’s what I mean, Draynth isn’t exactly being town’s best friend right now and I can see why people want him lynched (D1 I could too but I like informative lynches on D1, not lurker policy lynches) he claimed a PR and that he’s not a cop, leaving tracker, vig and jk as the only ones he can choose from. Why he said he wasn’t a cop without saying what he was, though, I’m not sure.

Won’t go into the ins and outs of what he can claim and why, but I’m scum-reading Oxy for personality reasons and I’m aware I could be wrong. Draynth would be be third pick there otherwise.

Also finding it difficult to parse that first paragraph, if you could go over it one more time I’d appreciate that. Long day today, my brain is a bit fried.

[Sunshine13]

Like, suppose Draynth was cop and shared his result and then we lynched him because of wifom. Congrats?

He already said he’s not.

Even then, he’d just be a VT at that point who hasn’t contributed much, so it wouldn’t be the worst lynch in the world if it basically gave us another IC.

[Sunshine13]

I find myself looking forward to Draynth’a claim.

Basically, assuming true claims right now: Math pintu NSG and skitter are conf!town

I didn’t perform the NK as per skitter’s tracking

Draynth has claimed PR, but is probably scum.

Oxy AP UD NM ruru remaining.

I’ve been townreading AP and ruru throughout.

Scumpartners thus potentially UD NM and Oxy, in that order.

UD has been posting oddly recently, and doesn’t quite seem engaged with the game at the same time, hence why we should go for him if we’re not going for Draynth.

VOTE: UD

[Sunshine13]

So we’ve had four of the five PRs claim so far, and the only way for tw to have died is likely the fifth one, excepting weird scum motive.

Anyone want to go for it?

Any particular reason you waited ‘til now to claim proper, Draynth? I mean that was two sentences; you didn’t have 30 seconds to post that? Not on the can, before bed, something like that?

As fer no cc’s, if you can come up with a good reason that scum!skitter and scum!pintu decide to fakeclaim despite being broadly townread, I’ll call you a good bullshitter.

[Sunshine13]

Well you were never seriously considered a good lynch candidate. Your name came up, but no wagons or anyone really saying it should happen.

[Sunshine13]

i mean keep in mind sunshine is the same player that refused to unvote me after i hardclaimed PR

That had more to do with me being quite exhausted with how long D1 had lasted, the person I wanted to lynch telling me to move my vote, and that making me want to play chicken with them to gauge reactions.

[Sunshine13]

well now that 4 of us are confirmed, sure let's talk oxy

@sunshine: i mean i was hoping to get out of D1 not having to reveal so

Lack of intestinal fortitude from you :p

TBF I was expecting you to be the NK before and after you outed, considering how hard everyone was pushing your game solving skills.

Pedit: keep it clean guys. No biting or fishhooks.

Also, to back up Oxy a bit, cop is the easiest fakeclaim for scum, especially if they know it’s not in the game. Given context it’s unlikely it is a fakeclaim, but can’t rule it out.

But I’m not sure what the point of arguing it is, so maybe, like, don’t?

[Sunshine13]

Well you argued I was scum for wanting an informative lynch yesterday... /just sayin’

Pedit: let’s not discuss potential nk’s either, scum can do that on their own :p

[Sunshine13]

lol so for srs what is the plan? We’ve got Dino pushing for a non-Draynth lynch, fair enough but it has problems, but scum have been shown to be a bit rubbish on N1 so we can hope for some more of that on N2.

I have no problem with a UD or NM lynch today.

Pedit: also for srs Oxy, what’s the point in the passive-aggression?

[Sunshine13]

I have issues with math’s plan but I can’t voice it ‘cause it helps scum more than town. But it kinda should’ve already occurred to scum what I mean, but they messed up N1 so maybe it didn’t.

Okay. Maybe if we change the question a bit...

Of the consensus lynches today (appearing at this point to be UD and NM) which one would we have less of an issue mislynching if that were to be the case?

[Sunshine13]

There’s more about UD hat’s scummy than NM, I think. But that’s because NM has made less than a handful of very content-lite posts.

I guess I’d prefer UD’s posts over NMs... not really anything?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Pedit: oi oi

L-1 will remove if a problem ‘cause I’m not used to hammers.

[Sunshine13]

I guess the best time to ask this would be during twilight:

Is it bad form to be talking during it? :p

[Sunshine13]

Eh I personally prefer not to, but I’m reasonably sure this game has already been solved anyway *shrug*

[Sunshine13]

VOTE: Draynth

Thus us the mechanically correct lynch. Even if we are wrong then pintu becomes conf!scum and we can reevaluate our reads based on it.
If we're right though we have a second IC, so whichever of Dino/pintu dies tonight we have another one whom we

know

is town.

This, for the love of all that is holy. A Draynth lynch sorts one player if he flips town, two if he’s scum.

VOTE: Draynth

[Sunshine13]

That entire post of his isn’t valid as a defense, frankly.

I’m alright with a UD lynch, not sure if it’s wise to waste the time we have atm though, just in case.

[Sunshine13]

Hey so it didn’t post, my phone is a bastaaaard.

Anyhow, I town read scum for a bad post and convinced the town not to lynch scum, all on D1.

I’m really good at this.

Thanks brass, was going to vote the barkeeper after D3 ‘cause he knew Draynth was scum and didn’t tell us!