Open 716: Making Friends and Enemies [Game Over]

[Green Crayons]

Hello ladies and gentlemen.

The fun stops now.

[Green Crayons]

I just finished Page 11, and now have to do some work for a few hours. So I'll loop back to finish catching up later today.

BuJaber is a perfectly fine D1 lynch as of Page 11. So,

@BuJaber

, you should probably claim since you're at L-1 and I'm okay with you dying.

[Green Crayons]

Alright so I didn't read as in depth the last 5 or so pages, because I got bored.

Why why I'm happy to lynch BuJaber: His vote activity appears motivated to deflect criticisms, and is not supported by good suspicions

Step 1)

First real vote of the game is to jump on the easy mislynch of verydark in Post 171. Simply reiterates the reasons already voiced by a bunch of other players. Doesn't actually add anything to the conversation, but it looks good in an ISO because he looks thoughtful and thus justified.

Step 2)

Gets called out for broadly throwing shade at a townblock (per GuiltyLion) in Post 246. (Note I don't have an opinion about whether this is actually a townbloc or not because I'm not quite sure who the "meme team" is because I haven't kept track.) There's some back and forth (e.g., BuJaber's Post 257). What gets me though is then BuJaber waits a beat and then revisits his "meme team" post to vote dave (Post 380 and Post 409).

Step 3)

After getting some pushback on his dave vote (e.g., S_S's Post 410), and after GuiltyLion questioned his switch from verydark to dave (Post 444), BuJaber then jumps back to the verydark wagon in Post 479.


So, recap: parroted already-voiced reasons to vote verydark; jumped from verydark to dave when called out on not flushing out his "meme team" suspicions (thus appearing to try to defuse the criticism), but with some weak reasoning; and then jumped from dave back to verydark when called out on his dave vote being bad and for leaving the wagon on his #1 suspicion (thus again appearing to try to defuse the criticism towards his play).

[Green Crayons]

green crayons serious business 2019

Who has time to enjoy themselves when there are arguments to be had?

[Green Crayons]

@Gamma:

Not to mention that "objectively scummy" is often used as a synonym for "I'm scumreading them because of playstyle but don't want to admit it."

That may be true but I'm pretty sure I've used it myself before as town.

This reads as really bad survivor tell. S_S isn't even voting him. BuJabertown would care about arguing why it is valid to or logically justified to do so, not care about arguing it isn't logic he only employs when he rolls scum... which no one even said...
VOTE: BuJaber

Oh wow this is a good point. S_S probably town because this would be some wonky SvS
VOTE: BuJaber

Please explain to me the good point you thought was being made here. Pretend that I don't understand anything about the S_S + BuJaber + pops interaction.

[Green Crayons]

Kmd and GL are good scum players and while they've done a bunch of pro-town things, I'm uncomfortable putting them under "neverlynch". They haven't exactly completely towntold yet (Kmd lightly did early game).

I started off scum reading GL and that turned into a town read.
I started off town reading Kmd and that turned into a scum read.
Guess they're the next two to reread.

[Green Crayons]

@Gamma:

Please respond:

@Gamma:

Not to mention that "objectively scummy" is often used as a synonym for "I'm scumreading them because of playstyle but don't want to admit it."

That may be true but I'm pretty sure I've used it myself before as town.

This reads as really bad survivor tell. S_S isn't even voting him. BuJabertown would care about arguing why it is valid to or logically justified to do so, not care about arguing it isn't logic he only employs when he rolls scum... which no one even said...
VOTE: BuJaber

Oh wow this is a good point. S_S probably town because this would be some wonky SvS
VOTE: BuJaber

Please explain to me the good point you thought was being made here. Pretend that I don't understand anything about the S_S + BuJaber + pops interaction.

[Green Crayons]

Kmd and GL are good scum players and while they've done a bunch of pro-town things, I'm uncomfortable putting them under "neverlynch". They haven't exactly completely towntold yet (Kmd lightly did early game).

I started off scum reading GL and that turned into a town read.
I started off town reading Kmd and that turned into a scum read.
Guess they're the next two to reread.

This is the next thing I'm doing.

[Green Crayons]

meh fine

VOTE: Green Crayons

Bad dino.

[Green Crayons]

I keep having connection problems with this website when I actually have time to read this game. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Green Crayons]

The problem is being unable to establish a connection with the server. It happens on my laptop, on my iphone, from work, and from home. And it happens intermittently, obviously, since I'm posting now.

[Green Crayons]

I had some problems this morning (~8 EST) when I tried to start my reread. And then some time earlier this afternoon when I tried again.

I can't do much about kop.

[Green Crayons]

I had some problems this morning (~8 EST) when I tried to start my reread. And then some time earlier this afternoon when I tried again.

I can't do much about kop.

ANd lol my connection has been out since literally posting this. Now I have phone only connection. Which let me tell you, is not conducive to rereadig.

[Green Crayons]

Glad to see my whinging was toxic to the thread.

@anyone:

whoever read northsidegal as town, can you please justify that read?

[Green Crayons]

@Dino:

1.

Sando: A bucketload of NAI things. Need to metadive.

Did you ever do this?

2.

Why the BuJaber vote in Post 360?

[Green Crayons]

@Kmd:

1.

How often do you see people referring to you as, simply, "Md"?

2.

What are your thoughts on dave?

[Green Crayons]

@S_S:

1. Tell me all of your thoughts that you think are worth sharing about the verydark wagon.

2. I don't understand your Post 618 or Post 620. Can you please explain?

[Green Crayons]

@dave:

1.

LUV looks town.

Why?

2.

LUV can you link a couple replace-ins for both alignments?

Thanks LUV, you're remarkably consistent when you replace in.

What about now?

[Green Crayons]

^^ Those are my questions after rereading D1. I'll vote after some follow up.

Only skimmed D2, but:

I'm not seeing real scumhunting or analysis, just promises to do so, which is what I've seen some scum do in games where they are not engaged.

I didn't pick up a game after not playing for a year or whatever just to not be engaged. This isn't alignment indicative, it's shitty internet.

[Green Crayons]

I also have a spreadsheet documenting her meta trends in her town vs scumgames. I can run her posts through that and let you know what it comes up with if you like.

Please do.

[Green Crayons]

@Kmd:

1.

How often do you see people referring to you as, simply, "Md"?

2.

What are your thoughts on dave?

MD is Mathdino

Dino.

Dino.

Please.

[Green Crayons]

2. I'd been waffling on verydark in my mind (and my heart wanted to policy his ass). He requested space, and I trust GL's reads in general, so I swapped to Bujaber,

my second highest scumread

.

Where did that read come from, when you made that vote?

[Green Crayons]

Glad to see my whinging was toxic to the thread.

@anyone:

whoever read northsidegal as town, can you please justify that read?

You gonna tell us why you read the slot as scum as well or just shade it?

Why do I need to come out with a case before I hear why people have been townreading the slot?

If I want people to vote for LUV I’ll make it explicit.

[Green Crayons]

I have feelings. Just want to know others’ first before I share with the class.

[Green Crayons]

@S_S:

@S_S:

1. Tell me all of your thoughts that you think are worth sharing about the verydark wagon.

It was a meme wagon on town that developed into a real wagon for dumb reasons.

Hm. Fair. I wrote that question when your slot was occupied by Sando.

How about this: with the Bu flip, is there anything about the verydark wagon that you think is worth pursuing today?

[Green Crayons]

i'm pretty into PoE. everyone else in my D1 lynchpool had done townier things so my general goal is to not vote town and pray for the best

i didn't really expect him to flip scum but i figured it was a decent lynch nonetheless especially with him going inactive up to the deadline

I'm uncomfortable with this explanation in light of your Post 161, listing GL, Sando, or Bujaber as POE scumbuddies, but then shouting down Sando in Post 348 for having the audacity to think your 161 was suggesting you'd be happy with a Sando lynch. By implication, you weren't advocating for either of the other two POE scumbuddies' lynches either.

So: I agreed with your Post 348 stating that your 161's POE scumbuddy list (GL, Sando, BuJaber) was not advocating a lynch out of the POE trio. But then in 360 you switch to a vote out of the POE trio to give verydark some breathing room. And your vote just happens to land on a scum who had only mild pressure (GL vote). And then your vote just sort of lingered on BuJaber, sort of like a buddy who didn't know when to unvote.

Basically I'm paranoid that you're scum with two relatively inactive buddies.

[Green Crayons]

One of them being dead already my man. BuJaber complained about people disliking his level of activity, and specifically called out Dino's prolific posting abilities.

[Green Crayons]

@Gamma:

It was mainly me thinking BuJaber responding to a question never asked was scummy due to it speaking to me as too self-conscious.

How did you interpret it to be too self-conscious?

Promise I'm not trying to be pedantic. I've interpreted BuJaber's Post 414 "That may be true but I'm pretty sure I've used it myself before as town" response two different ways since I first read it, and I've seen three different interpretations.

Since this was your motivating reason to vote for BuJaber-scum, I'd like some further explanation.

[Green Crayons]

Since this was your motivating reason to vote for BuJaber-scum, I'd like some further explanation.

This is me explaining why I don't think I'm wasting our time, not suggesting that you have been holding out or anything.

[Green Crayons]

Any additional thought about kmd?

After yesterday's reread, I came away thinking he looked more protown than I thought he would and the impression I last had of him.

But reading D2, I see that GL-town is hard reading him scum in light of the flip, which means more work.

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons, I've used this name on multiple sites over the course of about 18 years and I don't recall ever being referred to as "md", although someone has been calling me just "k" lately which is new.

Yeah. It doesn't make sense to me for anyone to refer to you as Md either. Which is why this interaction caught my eye:

Spoiler:

TRing MD but not for the mason warning. For the prediction in the first post. I've seen day 1 predictions. I've seen page 1 predictions. This is my first post 1 prediction. He's thinking about bragging rights before ANYTHING else. Townie.

Or scum being very very very 'calculating'?

*leaves the building before the boos*

Don't town read me for that. I'd do it as scum too.

Noted

MD is mathdino ftr.. I should probably say dino in this game to avoid confusion.

It looks like you were overly conscious of what BuJaber was posting to the point of thinking he was referring to you. In response, he went along with it, but then realized he hadn't actually referred to you and corrected himself. It's just weird.

[Green Crayons]

I have been thinking of BuJaber picking me as the token mislynch attempt as a very indirect chainsaw since I was weakly pushing Myloninja (in the same way as KMD but have not looked at what BuJaber did on that).

I still think Myloninja is scum for the same reason as before, but I'm more interested in finding another since if it's a red flip we get next to no help on 3rd scum.

Are you serious with this post?

[Green Crayons]

hey GC hit me up with some spicy thoughts on that lynch order

One spicy order, coming up:

Optimal play if we're going by votes (and taking into account locktownies) is something like:
Kmd --> Gamma --> brass --> verydark --> GC --> GL --> davesaz

I'm not sold on kmd. Still need to dive his ISO because GL told the thread to do so.

Not feeling Gamma after reread. Before D1 ended I read pops and Gamma with the idea that one of them had to be scum. I think I found only one thing wrong with Gamma and it was meh. Not too keen on his very terse responses to my questions; I still left unsatisfied but I don't really know how to probe further without literally everyone ignoring it regardless of whatever nugget I might mine.

Hard no on brass. I'm reading him town. That's his input + prior occupant of the slot. THOUGH I WILL SAY his read on me is bad because, obviously.

I could do verydark but man I feel that that's a throat-clearing exercise of just getting rid of a poorly playing town. Your dual D1 scum wagon theory is sexy and plausible enough for me to sleep okay at night. But man this really just feels like a lazy lynch.

lol GL. Am I so far removed from site meta that he isn't lock town for everyone?

unclear why dave isn't at/near the front based on D2 posts.

[Green Crayons]

Let me pull out the full player list, then.

Current game state, I'd say I'm at:

Willing to lynch: davesaz, verydark, kmd4390, Myloninja13,

Meh: Lil Uzi Vert ← northsidegal, Gamma Emerald, Something_Smart ← Sando,

Not interested in lynching today: brassherald ← Agent Sparkles, Mathdino, GuiltyLion, Green Crayons ← Kop

[Green Crayons]

Gamma - I'm unconvinced on your unconvincedness. I don't see much TOWNISH about him.

Well I'm convinced.


More seriously, weren't you arguing at one point that his lack of affirmative, early town play was somehow in line with Gamma's town play?

[Green Crayons]

davesaz - Strong meta-based townread, although I guess I can do a onceover and check? Obviously a lot of his posts are bad but that's literally why he's lynchbait in a bunch of games.

Even as someone whose radar goes a bit wonky on dave, I think most of his D1 play was very dave-neutral and his late D1-play and D2 play has been pretty good indicators of potential dave-scum.

[Green Crayons]

I read pops and Gamma with the idea that one of them had to be scum.

explain this line

There was a lot of pops/Gamma back and forth and I got it into my head after my initial read through that one of y'all were scum. Not sure if that was an original thought or something I picked up from someone else.

[Green Crayons]

You'll notice I'm not pushing for Gamma's lynch.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: dave

i'm drunk and lazy but he's scum.

[Green Crayons]

dave's mylo suspicions are lazy and inconsistently justified. It's not just an easy vote for scum to make, but dave's way of getting to that vote is suspicious.

1.

His initial mylo vote in Post 266, back in Day 1, was because mylo didn't have opinions.

Reasoning confirmed via dave's explanation in Post 376:

Spoiler: dave's Post 376

when i say "it", i mean admitting that your read through didn't produce any strong reads.

Not having any

strong

reads would not be an issue at all. That typically describes my entire D1 in every game.
But Myloninja claimed to have no opinions at all, which is a completely different thing.
It looked especially strange at that particular moment because there had been plenty of things to have potential opinions on in just the last couple pages before it.

Yawn, but whatever. That vote carries dave through D1 (per Post 720).

2.

D2 starts. Once mylo states that he's going to start posting (and in fact does post some thoughts on the gamestate) dave invites commentary on discrediting mylo's input (including, incidentally, raising dave suspicions) in Post 805:

Spoiler: dave's Post 805

I'm back!

I'd say that my list of town reads would be Math, SS and GL. All of whom are being helpful, but also don't seem stiff in their helpfulness. And none of whom I can really see as mafia with Bujaber.

I don't really have any scum reads, but dave is a little suspicious from yesterdays actions and also being a bit forceful?

How lol is this?

So, after having spent vast majority of D1 voting mylo for simply not having any opinions, dave is now inviting folks to discredit the opinions that mylo is forming.

3.

After getting Dino to confirm to the thread that nobody should take mylo's opinions seriously (see Post 805, Post 806), dave reverts to his claim that mylo "is scum for the same reason as before" in Post 875:

Spoiler: dave's Post 875

I have been thinking of BuJaber picking me as the token mislynch attempt as a very indirect chainsaw since I was weakly pushing Myloninja (in the same way as KMD but have not looked at what BuJaber did on that).

I still think Myloninja is scum for the same reason as before, but I'm more interested in finding another since if it's a red flip we get next to no help on 3rd scum.

There are several things wrong with this post:
- dave thinks mylo is scum "for the same reason as before" (having no opinions), but mylo has since tried to provide input and has been shut down

by dave

. These are suspicions of dave's own creation.
- dave's scum-friendly desire to lynch for information > lynch for scum.
- the "indirect chainsaw" theory that does not actually have any work justifying it.

4.

dave again votes for mylo in Post 948:

Spoiler: dave's post 948

Woohoo, policy lynch time!

If you're town doing things like this to fall on a policy sword, don't.
Give us your thoughts so we can nail the scum.

Of course if you're scum then thanks for making it easy to lynch you.

VOTE: Myloninja13

Guess what the reasoning is! Because mylo is complaining about being a policy lynch.

dave faults mylo for complaining about being a policy lynch and tells him that he should "give us your thoughts so we can nail the scum." Never mind the 796/805 interaction where dave was soft encouraging mylo not to contribute. Since then mylo articulated support for a kmd lynch (Post 882) and interacted with Dino about his own meta (Post 887). Certainly not winning any contribution awards, but far from a player who claims "to have no opinions at all" (Post 376)--which was the whole point of dave's mylo-suspicions.

The framing of dave's 948 also just strikes me as wrong. It's like he's not convinced that mylo's play is alignment indicative--it could come from town or scum--but dave's still willing to lynch it. The encouragement to contribute is good posturing if mylo flips town, but does not actually appear motivated to get anything useful out of mylo (no specific questions, just a broad "help us find scum" statement that doesn't do anything to illicit thoughts from a player not already engaged).

5.

In Post 952 dave confirms in no uncertain terms that "Mylo is scum." and dave "thought it before and still do." This doesn't really make sense. dave's suspicions about mylo have been static, but mylo's play hasn't tracked that same one-note. And when mylo has tried to contribute more, dave has discouraged or ignored that deviation from his basis to vote mylo.

[Green Crayons]

Basically this is dave pushing a bad vote based on bad suspicions that appear to be formed to justify the predetermined need to vote mylo. That's why I'm seeing dave-scum.

[Green Crayons]

Also, did you really have to add "I'm not kidding". Did people think you were just on me for the giggles or something?

They act like they think I'm there for giggles.
They act like they don't think I believe the read.

GL, GC.
Have you been reading?

My Post 900 was not asking if you were making a joke.

[Green Crayons]

I nothing the Gamma votes.

[Green Crayons]

For lack of anything else to comment on atm, I'd be interested to hear from the non-voters

Lil Uzi Vert, Something_Smart

[Green Crayons]

Oh, nm on Lil Uzi Vert. Outdated VC naming conventions.

Just S_S then.

[Green Crayons]

Who you wanna vote?

[Green Crayons]

Please explain that more. How is this play pushing agendas?

[Green Crayons]

I nothing the Gamma votes.

What does this mean?

I've got no opinion on them. Mainly because they didn't give much of a hook to do so.

[Green Crayons]

In addition to that, BuJaber was basically the best candidate for a hard bus. Not only does he have content that is very unlikely to take him to LYLO, but

he was going to have a baby soon and he knew he would be able to commit even less on further days

.

Is this information somewhere public?

[Green Crayons]

Ew, double emphasis.

[Green Crayons]

If I had to pick right now, GL.

So GL pushing for Bu-scum's lynch gets him a pass for today.

Who's next on your list?

[Green Crayons]

You asked if I was serious. How is that not the same thing as asking if it's a joke?

The phrase "are you serious?" does not always mean "is this a literal joke attempt?" It frequently means "I cannot believe I am seeing this."

In the context of mafia, using that phrase and quoting your post was prodding you to explain the problems with 875, which I think are apparent and which kmd and myself have identified.

[Green Crayons]

^^ Ty.

[Green Crayons]

Having done a quick reread on Gamma Emerald, I can see scum possibilities there.

I'd like to hear this, from you.

[Green Crayons]

What do you perceive as being problems with 875?

3.

After getting Dino to confirm to the thread that nobody should take mylo's opinions seriously (see Post 805, Post 806), dave reverts to his claim that mylo "is scum for the same reason as before" in Post 875:

Spoiler: dave's Post 875

I have been thinking of BuJaber picking me as the token mislynch attempt as a very indirect chainsaw since I was weakly pushing Myloninja (in the same way as KMD but have not looked at what BuJaber did on that).

I still think Myloninja is scum for the same reason as before, but I'm more interested in finding another since if it's a red flip we get next to no help on 3rd scum.

There are several things wrong with this post:
- dave thinks mylo is scum "for the same reason as before" (having no opinions), but mylo has since tried to provide input and has been shut down

by dave

. These are suspicions of dave's own creation.
- dave's scum-friendly desire to lynch for information > lynch for scum.
- the "indirect chainsaw" theory that does not actually have any work justifying it.

[Green Crayons]

Having done a quick reread on Gamma Emerald, I can see scum possibilities there.

I'd like to hear this, from you.

You'd like to hear what exactly?

The scum possibilities that you see.

[Green Crayons]

If I had to pick right now, GL.

So GL pushing for Bu-scum's lynch gets him a pass for today.

Who's next on your list?

That's not exactly how it works... why should he get a pass?

Is GL in the free and clear forever for hard pushing Bu-scum into his D1 grave? No.

Are we going to ignore the other potential scum suspects to pursue the theory that GL is scum playing 10th dimensional chess on D2? Also no.

If GL is in LYLO, anyone with him should 100% consider the meta arguments made about his scum-playing abilities, as well as his post-D1 suspicions scorecard. Maybe some people will want to revisit that before LYLO. But doing it on D2 is just redic. It punishes good scumhunting.


Like, am I going to stand over here and just yell that You're Wrong for wanting to vote GL? Not really. What I was/am trying to do is encourage you to maybe share more about your other suspects, because GL suspicions aren't going to gain traction with me or, I suspect, other players.

[Green Crayons]

Like, am I going to stand over here and just yell that You're Wrong for wanting to vote GL? Not really. What I was/am trying to do is encourage you to maybe share more about your other suspects, because GL suspicions aren't going to gain traction with me or, I suspect, other players.

For example--you're interacting with GL about your suspicions. Great! I'll read that in a few days if I'm still alive.

I would be curious to see who else you suspect, and why.

[Green Crayons]

In the context of mafia, using that phrase and quoting your post was prodding you to explain the problems with 875, which I think are apparent and which kmd and myself have identified.

is the kmd bit just referring to 876 or did I miss something else?

Yes and no, respectively. Just giving credit to who first articulated a problem with that post.

[Green Crayons]

Just fyi work will keep me pretty limited until the weekend.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: dave

[Green Crayons]

ech I'm legit playing my scum meta here at this point
someone talk to me

What's your scum meta?

[Green Crayons]

100% have confirmed town talk about his wagon.

[Green Crayons]

I thought pops had no other scumreads
But actually he spent most of d1 bitching about how I was stonewalling the Gamma wagon because he's easier to read in lategame
Check his ISO
Pops kill doesn't totally make sense otherwise

You're killing me,

Smalls

Dino.

I read pops and Gamma with the idea that one of them had to be scum.

explain this line

There was a lot of pops/Gamma back and forth and I got it into my head after my initial read through that one of y'all were scum. Not sure if that was an original thought or something I picked up from someone else.

Most interactions people think are TvS are TvT

You'll notice I'm not pushing for Gamma's lynch.

[Green Crayons]

For future reference

Green Crayons (965), GuiltyLion (1004), Gamma Emerald (1110), Brass (1113), Mylo (1114)

[Green Crayons]

Gamma, what's your opinion on me? You have actually avoided me like the plague this game, so why?

You sorta seem like the fallback scumread for absolutely everyone so I'm between "back pocket scumread of scum to have an option" and "second option to your scumbuddy who doesn't intend to lynch you"

Gamma, what's your opinion on me? You have actually avoided me like the plague this game, so why?

You sorta seem like the fallback scumread for absolutely everyone so I'm between "back pocket scumread of scum to have an option" and "second option to your scumbuddy who doesn't intend to lynch you"

That sounds... weird?

not really? Everyone suspecting you so if you're town the scum probably want you as a fallback option, and if you're scum that means whoever your buddy is want to lynch someone else over you and is probably going to continue that trend.

GL called this detached but I'm just going to call it mind boggling. When asked to give an opinion on mylo, you give an opinion about others (and how they are potentially reacting to mylo depending on whether mylo is or is not scum). It took me several read throughs to even understand that

that

was what you were saying.

And even still, I don't even actually understand what your point actually is.

[Green Crayons]

I'd lynch Gamma over mylo at this point.

[Green Crayons]

So your read on mylo is going to be based on how others are acting towards mylo?

[Green Crayons]

So your read on mylo is going to be based on how others are acting towards mylo?

pretty much yeah. are you going to say that's a bad way to read people, because I don't see how.

So mylo is a binary: scum or not scum.

You've decided that the way to determine that binary question is to look to people whose alignments you ostensibly don't know.

And then evaluate their motivations in terms of interacting with mylo.

Nevermind the fact that most of them will be town, so they are interacting with mylo in a manner regardless of mylo's alignment.

So you will need to first find one non-mylo scum, accurately identify who they are, and then evaluate whether that scum's play towards mylo suggests a "fallback option" mislynch or a "don't want to bus" avoidance.

[Green Crayons]

It just doesn't make sense as a town way to develop a read. It's convoluted and avoids actually commenting on mylo.

[Green Crayons]

So you will need to first find one non-mylo scum, accurately identify who they are, and then evaluate whether that scum's play towards mylo suggests a "fallback option" mislynch or a "don't want to bus" avoidance.

Also interesting that you've apparently decided that the people who are voting mylo are not scum?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Gamma

[Green Crayons]

Honestly all of gamma's and mylo's posts the past two pages just scream scum to me, so idc at this point who we lynch first.

[Green Crayons]

Gamma, what are you? You're lynched, it doesn't matter anymore.

town
if you back off lynching mylo tomorrow and he ends up scum you all lose credibility as good players, his last few posts are not town
if mylo is scum lynch VD and then KMD if VD is town, that vote from KMD came just as I was starting to crack down on mylo

DAMN IT

Is this real life?

[Green Crayons]

All aboard the Gamma train.

[Green Crayons]

Brass’s slot has been super town all game.

[Green Crayons]

If Gamma flips town, the above goes out the window, Green Crayons will be my strongest scumread.

Fingers crossed Gamma’s scum then. Because they sounds like a pain in the butt D3.

[Green Crayons]

No longer work traveling. Will do real analysis in the next day or two.

Inclined to go after Mylo. Thought end of yesterday both he and Gamma were svummy as hell. Plus the whole save thing.

Not a fan of kmd’s hammet bc wanted Dave thoughts.

Will prob look at Gamma wagon and also folks who weren’t on it.

[Green Crayons]

Whole Dave thing

[Green Crayons]

I will probably look at living and dead ppl.

[Green Crayons]

Old even how to respond to that.

[Green Crayons]

Old = idk

[Green Crayons]

Yeah I’ll do that tomorrow.

[Green Crayons]

“Super secret tell” sounds fishy tho. Plz remind me that you are in fact town this fame?

[Green Crayons]

Ahoy. I have been prodded.

[Green Crayons]

Dino, Mylon - scumlean

To Kmd, The only people I'd give light scum reads to is BuJaber and dave, both for awkward dialogue.

Why not verydark?

Because it seems perfectly in line with the game I was in with him, where he was also universally suspicious until a clear cop read saved him.

Still here, and I figure I may as well vote to actually do something.

VOTE: Davesaz OMGUS always wins.

If you are scumreading Dave and BuJaber and BuJaber is close to a lynch, and Dave has no votes...why did you vote Dave over BuJaber?

Because we still have time left. If I voted him, he'd be L-1 and could be lynched. Although, at this point I don't think anyone aside from verydark could get lynched.

[Green Crayons]

For future reference

Green Crayons (965), GuiltyLion (1004), Gamma Emerald (1110), Brass (1113), Mylo (1114)

On-wagon, I can see mylo and I guess GL because his Bu-push can last for so long and he's been soft buddying me for a while. But that's a very far second.

[Green Crayons]

@mylo:

Mylo what's your read on the brass slot, I don't see any talk about him at all in your ISO

I'm suspicious of him.

He voted me when it was popular, swapped to dave because my wagon had fizzled out despite three people on it and got a claim out of dave before immediately returning back to me

.

Can you point to these posts?

[Green Crayons]

@Dino:

upon review, i'm really really not into the idea that brass was scum hardbussing bujaber the entirety of D1, especially given that there's no daytalk and he couldn't possibly have planned that out with bujaber

Doesn't this also apply to GL, then?

[Green Crayons]

^^^ Well fart.

I have a tell on Bujaber that potentially incriminates one of {GC, Kmd} and one of {verydark, Mylo}.

I'm fairly sure we're looking at:
GC/verydark
Kmd/verydark
GC/Mylo
Kmd/Mylo

Looking at GC/Mylo, we have a FANTASTIC distribution.

One on scumlynch, one off.

Both off lynchbait verydark.

One on Kmd.

Both on davesaz (what a shitty wagon).

GC off Mylo.

And both on Gamma with very far apart votes.

VOTE: GC

Never lynching outside of these two, and I think it's GC.

I don't really disagree with this, other than to say I'm town so your 50/50 should break in favor of Mylo.

[Green Crayons]

No I would not be fine with that.

[Green Crayons]

I understand that.

Counterpoint:

For future reference

Green Crayons (965), GuiltyLion (1004), Gamma Emerald (1110), Brass (1113), Mylo (1114)

On-wagon, I can see mylo and I guess GL because his Bu-push can last for so long and he's been soft buddying me for a while. But that's a very far second.

[Green Crayons]

By "that" I mean I understand the point you are making. I just think you're most likely scum on the dave wagon.

[Green Crayons]

@brass:

Vote Count 2.10

Votee	Voters
Myloninja13 (4)	Kmd4390 (863), brassherald (914), Mathdino (942), davesaz (948)
davesaz (3)	Green Crayons (965), GuiltyLion (1004), Gamma Emerald (1110)
Gamma Emerald (2)	Ankamius (1017), verydark (1019)
Kmd4390 (1)	Myloninja13 (882)

Not voting:

Something_Smart

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2018-04-15 17:15:00).

VOTE: davesaz

The case here seems good, and the Mylo wagon is totally stalled.

Can you explain how the mylo wagon had stalled with 4 votes (out of 6 to lynch)?

[Green Crayons]

Is there a scum reading you have off the dave wagon? Or I'm the most likely scum anyway.

This is just an indirect way to mason hunt at this point in time. While I suppose it is entirely possible no scum was on the dave wagon, I doubt it, so I'm not inclined to voice non-dave-wagon suspicions at this time.

[Green Crayons]

I mean, I'm curious what you think stalled means if my use of the term was not obvious.

In-the-moment playing and after-the-fact review can have substantially different perspectives. I was wanting to know what you meant in the moment. I haven't given it much thought beyond taking a cursory glance from mylo's link.

[Green Crayons]

Haven't yet*

[Green Crayons]

I'm fine with lynching Mylo at this point. What else do we need to do today? Anyone who is scumreading me have anything they could talk to me about that would quell their paranoia, or would that be a useless exercise

You have any response to Math's reason why you're a solid scum candidate?

If you've already responded to those points, I'll can just take links.

[Green Crayons]

Oh baby

UNVOTE:

So what's this?

[Green Crayons]

I'm really not inclined to vote GL and while I admit the occasional mylo post seems town, there are so. many. damned. posts. that. are. scummy.

Honestly all of the end of D2 is scummy.

Also his heavy, heavy,

heavy

lean into the "welp I guess you should lynch me" is super scummy.


That's my very bad version of a case based on things that have been bouncing around in my mind.

[Green Crayons]

Mylo doesn't look like scum to me by play. I am well aware that the chaotic newer town playstyle is a blind spot of mine, but I also get a bad feeling that he's the designated mislynch target for the day and that he was pounced on.

And yet is not dead

.

[Green Crayons]

Mylo doesn't look like scum to me by play. I am well aware that the chaotic newer town playstyle is a blind spot of mine, but I also get a bad feeling that he's the designated mislynch target for the day and that he was pounced on.

And yet is not dead

.

Why would that mean he'd be dead?

Because he's been characterized by various as a designated mislynch from D1 if I'm not mistaken. And he's a focus for today as opposed to say, VD, because he was on the dave wagon. So it's not like forces outside of his control has thrown him into this predicament. At a certain point he's not a "designated mislynch," he's just acting scummy because he's (probably) scum.

[Green Crayons]

Mylo doesn't look like scum to me by play. I am well aware that the chaotic newer town playstyle is a blind spot of mine, but I also get a bad feeling that he's the designated mislynch target for the day and that he was pounced on.

And yet is not dead

.

Because of your dave push.

Other than taking a jab that I was wrong about dave, what is your point?

[Green Crayons]

After dave wagon failed, it was down to Gamma and mylo. So that doesn't make sense.

You're incorrectly flipping the script. I'm not saying he's town or not town because of suspicions/wagons on him. Ank is saying that mylo is more town because, today, there is suspicion on him. But there has been suspicion on mylo for several days. And from several confirmed town players (dave, Gamma). So while I'm not saying that is necessarily a reason to read him as scum, it certainly isn't a reason to read him as town.

[Green Crayons]

Just because that wagon didn't actually lynch him doesn't mean that scum weren't trying. How does that wagon failing make him less towny?

Also, who would be scum on the mylo wagons of previous days?

[Green Crayons]

There is no good reason to lynch off the dave wagon.

[Green Crayons]

I’m v/la until Sunday morning for a weekend get away. I’ll read and keep up by I’m without a non-phone cpu until Monday.

[Green Crayons]

I think her point was that, holistically speaking, the prominence of that wagon meant that scum were probably okay with it happening.

It's definitely a reason to doubt the Mylo-scum argument, at least.

I don’t get that argument at all. Mylo suspicions have repeatedly swelled and pulled back. Normally I would think that is even more indicative of him being scum because buddies don’t want to bus (here not as a compelling argument bc he only has 1 buddy left if he’s scum). But I don’t see how we go from a not-quite-applicable scum tell to a town-tell.

Am I misremembering the Mylo suspicions? Haven’t they been in the form of multiple wagons?

[Green Crayons]

I think her point was that, holistically speaking, the prominence of that wagon meant that scum were probably okay with it happening.

It's definitely a reason to doubt the Mylo-scum argument, at least.

I don’t get that argument at all. Mylo suspicions have repeatedly swelled and pulled back. Normally I would think that is even more indicative of him being scum because buddies don’t want to bus (here not as a compelling argument bc he only has 1 buddy left if he’s scum). But I don’t see how we go from a not-quite-applicable scum tell to a town-tell.

Am I misremembering the Mylo suspicions? Haven’t they been in the form of multiple wagons?

I was talking entirely based on today, which I thought was obvious by the way I worded it.

It was obvious. I was responding to that with my posts, the point of which was to underscore that your inferences appear to ignore the entire rest of the game.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: mylo

GL suspicions comes down to "he's really good at scum so he bussed Bu-scum" and the response is "nuh-uhn." I'll vote GL over Brass if mylo does flip town but I'm not inclined to vote mylo over GL on that alone.

[Green Crayons]

Mylo suspicions lead to a wagon early today, though.

That doesn't actually disprove my point at all, though. If anything it supports it.

Wait, yeah, I get it, I thought you were on the other side of the debate.

Also I don't get this

at all

.

The three mylo voters today were: Math, VD, and Brass. How is that a wagon consisting of folks trying to make mylo the designated mislynch?

[Green Crayons]

Mylo is such an “easy” target his wagons each day have stalled.

[Green Crayons]

(in all seriousness, Mylo is the

easiest

target still alive because they're the slot that's going to push back the least against pushes on them, there's ongoing support for their lynch, and they're in a narrow lynchpool. nobody else fulfills all three of those requirements)

And again this just ignores the entire game.

The only criterion that you just listed that arguably doesn’t apply to GL or myself is the “push back” factor, and Mylo has developed a very effective “well if I must be the lynch let it be for the greater good” tactic that smacks of scum who has found a good, non-aggressive refrain that got people off his back when he’s reached lynching point.

[Green Crayons]

Like, to claim that everyone in the game is playing with their eyes closed to Mylo, you’re closing your eyes to the entirety of mylo’s play.

I’m not looking for a “win,” or whatever, I’m looking for you to reevaluate your POE that is ignoring Mylo and landing on me.

[Green Crayons]

Forgive me if I've asked this before (I have a feeling like I have), but why is SS a confirmed town slot? We're obviously not lynching him, he wasn't on the dave wagon and he has had overall solid play but why is he never even discussed as a scum option?

Why are you just asking three questions?

Really?

[Green Crayons]

Three = these

[Green Crayons]

I’m curious why you are looking for people to voice suspicions about a not dave-wagon pool candidate who you admit looks pretty town.

[Green Crayons]

I did read what you wrote.

So you were asking for suspicions on a player who is not a today lynch candidate.


I’m still waiting to hear your explanation for why.

[Green Crayons]

This is the here and now. I’m responding to what you’re posting.

You already stated in your 1558 post reasons why you read SS as town. How was someone going to give you those reasons going to help you or the town?

[Green Crayons]

Also in what context were you looking at SS? I’m struggling to understand your motivation in soliciting input on outside the dave lynch pool.

[Green Crayons]

Why do you keep revoting me?

Those of you who wanna vote Mylo, you should look over the scum meta he provided. His range doesn't seem THAT impressive.

"Mylo is too bad of a player to be this good at scum."

Never mind the fact that Mylo has avoided lynch mostly because the running theme is he's too scummy to be scum.

Also, I'm unclear what epic scum strategy you think Mylo has pulled off that he's too incapable to perform?

[Green Crayons]

Oh there was a new page.

GL's defence that he was unaware of bujaber's impending fatherhood is correct

Tease this out for me a bit more. Are you now confirming that my skepticism with your GL suspicions was warranted?

[Green Crayons]

the only real point that suggests he's scum is that he knew bujaber was scum and he was on the davesaz wagon

the first point is nullified by a motivation question -- why bus bujaber at that point in the game? bujaber isn't known to be a useless scumbuddy.

the second point is valid. his dave progression is super questionable given that he had dave as locktown earlier. but there were other people on/driving the davesaz wagon

So the only reason to be suspicious of GL is that he voted dave?

[Green Crayons]

Kop's scum meta is bussing and suspecting his teammates. His town meta has no such accuracy.

Also I reviewed kop's ISO and this doesn't match his play. kop was, at most, ambivalent to Bujaber, knocking him for some things but giving him props for others.

[Green Crayons]

imo, yeah. he's been pretty townish outside of his whacko dave progression

So I flip green. What are you going to do tomorrow?

[Green Crayons]

Also, I'm unclear what epic scum strategy you think Mylo has pulled off that he's too incapable to perform?

[Green Crayons]

So he's too incompetent to come across as incompetent scum?

[Green Crayons]

GL, Mylo, and verydark voted together in terms of:

- All 3 were on Bujaber
- All 3 were off verydark
- All 3 were on Kmd
- All 3 were off Myloninja
- All 3 were on Gamma at varying points during D2

The only case in which the 3 of them broke was on the davesaz wagon.

I believe this pattern all but guarantees 1-2 scum in {GL, Mylo, verydark}.

Combined with the idea that there was for sure scum on the davesaz wagon, this means:

A. There is scum in {GL, Mylo}.
B. The team is verydark/GC or verydark/brass.

So yeah I'm definitely starting to come around on GL.

Can you explain this in light of your recent "the only thing to suspect GL is the dave vote"?

[Green Crayons]

Just asking for you to explain to me your thought process. I'm trying to decide whether GL or mylo should be lynched.

[Green Crayons]

What do you think of Brass+Verydark's votes on Mylo today and Verydark's response to me asking him about it?

Spoiler: posts

I was prepared to come here and vote Math, I figured I'd find something in his ISO that I could quote to rationalize my vote, but after going through everything, I realized his reads are consistent and he hasn't contradicted himself.

Done this before as town--get a gut feeling on a player and I look for a coherent to justify a vote, and just find I can't do it. Narrating that aloud would be a great scum tactic to try to look town if that is some sort of site meta or something that VD is plugged into, but I don't know if it is. This reads honest to me.

I'm ok with lynching Green Crayons, Mylo, or kmd today.

VOTE: Green Crayons

Insofar as trusting Dino, this isn't a bad lynch list though I'm not sure why he put kmd in there notwithstanding kmd wasn't on the dave-wagon. Also not sure why he picked me first, which was obviously the wrong option.

Okay, looking at Math's scum game, I'm willing to say this is closer to a town play for him than a scum play. He is good as scum as well, but I see enough differences to give leeway to him. Also, I'm not sure that scum would commit so fully to continually telling us how many mislynches we have. That just feels more towny than anything else. I guess for now I am willing to follow him while his reads at least partially align with mine anyway. I don't think GC is scum, I believe I explained that Day 2, so, a Mylo lynch today for me if I'm following Dino's lynch pool.

VOTE: Mylo

brass is banking hard on the towncred his slot has from all game, by outright saying "I checked Dino's meta, he's probably town, therefore I'm going to go all-in on sheeping Math's lynch list." While it is, in a way, sort of shifting responsibility to Dino, brass has also done due diligence on Dino to make sure he's following town. Ultimately NAI because there are reasons to do it (or at least say you've done it) regardless of alignment.

I'm not feeling GL's observation in Post 1406 that brass is being "stiff" here. Maybe if GL pointed to how brass's 1401 is being more careful than brass's other posts? Or is this just an overall feeling GL has about brass's play this game?

Also hard to fault brass since I've been using Dino as a crutch this game as well. If anything, brass has ostensibly done more than me by actually checking meta.

VOTE: Mylo

Not amazing but also not wrong if we're just going to go down the lynch list.

I'd like Verydark's response before doing anything, please. I'm not satisfied with where my reads are at and it would help me solidify where my head is at for right now.

I was just getting on the Mylo wagon to get it rolling. Brass joined. I quoted the posts where Math has suggested a lynch order, I

was

ok with his methodology.

But this is twice now that Math has gotten players on board with his strategy then immediately changed his mind. I also just don't understand how Math has been "lock-towned" by the group.

It's quite possible he's playing at a level I don't really comprehend, and it's possible by doing so- he's scum.

So I don't even know anymore.

UNVOTE:

(shrug) I'm fine with the reasoning because at bottom I'm fine with the town just rolling through the dave-wagon list until they hit scum, and Dino is a good person to follow in directing that lynch order (putting me at the front notwithstanding).

Ultimately, I don't think that brass or VD's vote for mylo at this point in time is alignment indicative. In broad strokes, there's the unexceptional proposition that if mylo flips red, they're more likely town; but if he flips green, they're more likely scum.

If

mylo were to flip green, I think that would make GL the more likely scum rather than brass. Whether brass AND mylo being town makes VD's actions more scummy I'm not entirely sure, because once again I agree with town just rolling through the dave-wagon. The fact that VD ignored GL as potential scum on the dave-wagon does suggest that a GL-scum might have VD as a buddy.

I do have thoughts about whether VD is or is not independently suspicious, which I've discussed to some minimal degree with Dino already. Not inclined to delve further into them while we've got the dave-wagon still to go.

[Green Crayons]

Actually,

@verydark:

I'm ok with lynching Green Crayons, Mylo, or kmd today.

VOTE: Green Crayons

Why'd you pick me to vote first?

How do you feel about GL and brass?

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: GC

GC is now the only person I have a scum lean on.

Mhm, mhm.

it's so easy to say "I have too many townreads" as scum. And if you're scum, you often have too many townreads, because you know who is town, they look townier to you, and you feel more pressure to townread them. Sometimes scum wind up townreading too many players and become POE suspects when they run out of plausible/believable mislynches to push. Like, almost by definition scum are more likely to have too many townreads than town.

[Green Crayons]

Also

You already stated in your 1558 post reasons why you read SS as town. How was someone going to give you those reasons going to help you or the town?

Also in what context were you looking at SS? I’m struggling to understand your motivation in soliciting input on outside the dave lynch pool.

[Green Crayons]

I don't like a GL vote, because apparently I don't understand "bussing"

Brass is a scum/null read.

So you don't think GL has done anything suspicious all game?

Please explain your brass read.

[Green Crayons]

I voted you to get the ball rolling, don't really have concrete thoughts on you, but have you as a scum lean.

While you're at it, why don't you also lay out your thoughts on GC-scum and mylo-scum.

I'm listening.

[Green Crayons]

I was just saying it was not a good reason to townread BuJaber

I don't want to totally clear him on it because 1 game sample and people try different things, but I do agree it's a point in favor of him being town

I feel like a lot of people are treating mylo as if his suspicious qualities and town qualities are literally one pound units each and they're just stacking them on a scale and saying "meh it looks even to me."

Acting suspicious should be given more weight to occasional town flashes because scum are inherently suspicious but are actively trying to look town; town are not inherently suspicious and are just trying to do their best as town.

[Green Crayons]

GC can you clarify what your problem is with them? You're asking Mylo why he made them, but I don't see why he would make them as scum either

mylo is asking for town input on a non-dave-wagon candidate, which will help final scum target mason.

Especially since mylo

explained in his post

why SS is heavy town, his request for others to give yet more reasons to explain why SS hasn't been a scum suspect is indicative that he's specifically looking to gauge how other players perceive SS moreso than necessarily coming to a decision about SS specifically.

[Green Crayons]

People are townreading brass for whatever reason. I don't really see why green crayons makes sense as scum on that wagon. And Mylo just doesn't seem capable of faking the few posts that sounded town. I feel like at least one of brass/Guiltylion has to be scum.

Do you have more meat for those bones of your brass suspicions?

[Green Crayons]

ugh. now i'm going to have to reread brass.

[Green Crayons]

Just from looking at the posts you've quoted in this post, I'm getting the sense that he's been trying to diminish Math's influence on the game but is aware that there's not really a functional town reason to do so, at least that he is able to attack.

That's a good theory for VD/Dino interactions.

[Green Crayons]

it's possible GL just poe'd himself out of possible scum from his POV

I don't understand this.

[Green Crayons]

when I'm lynched, flip brass->verydark->GC on a brass scumflip

brass->GC->verydark on a brass townflip

So you think VD is scum, regardless of whether brass or GC is scum?

[Green Crayons]

can someone read mylo's fuckin scum meta with me

i get so bored reading meta alone

That website has a horrible interface.

Is this the only other mylo-scum game?

There are some differences in the later pages of that game (I got to page 10 in that thread and quit) to this game. Yes, he is making cases in the other game and trying to lead other players. But I don't see how non-alignment factors don't account for that. For example, there's the fact that in the other game mylo was dealing with different personalities, many of them not as dominating as those in this game. Also, in that other game mylo doesn't appear to have been targeted by votes on several occasions (unless if I quit before that happened), so I'm not seeing a 1:1 match in terms of having an impression of what mylo-scum does when under pressure.

[Green Crayons]

would've been real nice if y'all didn't get in a frenzy and vote up my locktownread davesaz and put us in this position in the first place lol

Uh, actually having a 4-person lynch pool where there's a very high probability that at least one of them is scum, with 3 available lynches, is actually quite nice.

[Green Crayons]

i did it to avoid a mylo lynch sooo

Why?

[Green Crayons]

if the masons in the latter 4 think that the team is literally the other two people in the latter 4, they should just claim and get it over with because they're getting shot tonight anyway

What a bad idea. Claiming tomorrow is

maybe

a good idea depending on game state but not today.

[Green Crayons]

^^^ oh nevermind i read that the complete wrong way.

Nothing to see here.

[Green Crayons]

How about not lynching GC.

Then again, if you lynch me that will be three confirmed town telling y'all to wake up and lynch mylo.

So whatev.

[Green Crayons]

GL suspicions comes down to "he's really good at scum so he bussed Bu-scum" and the response is "nuh-uhn." I'll vote GL over Brass if mylo does flip town but I'm not inclined to vote mylo over GL on that alone.

[Green Crayons]

I'll obviously vote for anyone who is not me to avoid my own lynch.

brass's response to GL's push doesn't speak to me one way or the other in terms of alignment.

[Green Crayons]

Though actually:

brass, GL isn't scum with mylo, next

Fine, if you're so sure.

UNVOTE:

Where's the vote, brass?

[Green Crayons]

GL suspicions comes down to "he's really good at scum so he bussed Bu-scum" and the response is "nuh-uhn." I'll vote GL over Brass if mylo does flip town but I'm not inclined to vote

mylo over GL

GL over mylo

on that alone.

Oh man my brain gets mixed up easily.

[Green Crayons]

Thanks.

[Green Crayons]

if we agree there's at least one scum in {GC, GL, brass, Mylo}, it's just a matter of who you all feel the most comfortable of betting the game on being town

I guess for me right now that's Mylo?

Unclear how you're putting mylo at confirmed town over me. Like, taking the totality of your posts about both players, I don't see how you're coming to that legitimately.

[Green Crayons]

-I keep seeing the Guiltylion case simplified to "he's good at scum so he must be scum".

It's not that simple. It's the fact that of those on the Dave wagon, he's the person who we seem to agree can play the way he's played as scum

. People are townreading brass for whatever reason. I don't really see why green crayons makes sense as scum on that wagon. And Mylo just doesn't seem capable of faking the few posts that sounded town. I feel like at least one of brass/Guiltylion has to be scum.

So it's not "GL is so good at scum he would have bussed Bu-scum," but "GL is known to bus partners and thus he bussed Bu-scum."

I don't see too terribly much daylight between those two positions.

It also assumes, without a basis to do so, that GL-scum was busing Bu rather than GL-town correctly found Bu to be suspicious. In other words, I don't see how you could ever see a GL-town catching scum as looking like GL-town.

[Green Crayons]

There are other small things about GL's play that are bothering me, but there's nothing I can really put my finger on, so I chalk it up to typical mafia paranoia. I haven't seen anyone state any other theories for why GL should be scum. He's scum in my book because of POE (if mylo isn't).

[Green Crayons]

how could you think scum was off a D1 scum lynch

Vote Count 1.Final

Votee	Voters
BuJaber (7)	GuiltyLion (177), Mathdino (360), popsofctown (415), Gamma Emerald (422), brassherald (586), Myloninja13 (693), verydark (714)
verydark (2)	Kmd4390 (22), BuJaber (479)
brassherald (1)	Something_Smart (618)
Myloninja13 (1)	davesaz (266)
popsofctown (1)	Lil Uzi Vert (499)

Not voting:

Green Crayons

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. BuJaber has been hammered.

VOTE: GC

I really think it's more likely GC than Mylo, guys. They could be scum together sure but on the premise that one and only one of them is scum, I think GC is a better lynch.

:scratching-chin emoji:

[Green Crayons]

Either scum avoided the Dave wagon, you're scum, or there are two scum in Mylo/brass/Guiltylion

Or, there is one scum on the Dave-wagon and one off.

I have seen a few posts from Mylo that I don't think he can fake.

Show 'em.

I can't eliminate Guiltylion. I definitely can see him bussing BuJaber in this game considering the playerlist. It's not as simple as "Guiltylion voted BuJaber so he was bussing". There is a process that leads to that thought but you are stuck on the conclusion and saying it makes no sense without listening to the logic behind it first.

So this is POE, and then when you're left with GL you're like "is it conceivable that GL's actions this game have come from GL-scum? Yes."

I don't disagree with that, and is exactly what I've been saying. Except for the whole mylo-is-scummier point.

[Green Crayons]

what are the odds that GC is just bad town who scumread dave, failed to hop on bujaber, and is townreading scum-GL

I'm not actually good at this game and am out of practice. So. A lot.

Also let's do mylo.

[Green Crayons]

Edit: @GC: you explicitly voiced support for the wagon, you just hadn't caught up

(shrug) barely qualifies for your criteria but yet you're wanting to lead with me.

[Green Crayons]

Okay, screw it.

UNVOTE: mylo
VOTE: GL

I'm not going to not-vote mylo tomorrow if this is a green flip.

[Green Crayons]

UNVOTE: GL
VOTE: mylo

toot toot. idc.

[Green Crayons]

and I'm remembering I actually had some decent reasons to townread Sparkles

You didn't check Sparkles when you drafted your brass case?

[Green Crayons]

Glad to see you don’t need to be out of practice to be wrong.

[Green Crayons]

That said can people vote GL or mylo and be done with today?

[Green Crayons]

from your POV GL is the correct lynch

Actually:

Just asking for you to explain to me your thought process. I'm trying to decide whether GL or mylo should be lynched.

Edit: from your POV i'd say mylo

[Green Crayons]

from your POV GL is the correct lynch

Actually:

I’m going to vote he player that has been more consistently scummy. You never responded to my explanation about why mylo’s scum meta doesn’t save him.

[Green Crayons]

Maybe tomorrow we'll lynch mylo.

[Green Crayons]

Also if GL is actually town ty for vindicating my "don't punish people who are right" belief.

[Green Crayons]

lol Math preemptively discredited that even before my flip

Like if mylo is actually scum I think Dino is his partner who is like "fuck it let's go all in."

[Green Crayons]

but that's me just being salty

[Green Crayons]

no one's helped go through mylo's meta

I've flagged this twice for you.

[Green Crayons]

Shade.

[Green Crayons]

You should want to lynch mylo because your meta defense doesn't hold up.

[Green Crayons]

Available scum partners is a difficult thing for us to argue about since that would require sorting through masons.

[Green Crayons]

any arguments tomorrow that mylo is scum over brass will be treated as scumreads on me and will be dealt with as such

What does this even mean?

[Green Crayons]

Prepare to be shocked.

[Green Crayons]

why what?

[Green Crayons]

I envision a future GC being very diligent and writing up a list of potential scum buddies with mylo.

Let's see if that vision ever manifests or if I'll get lazy again.

[Green Crayons]

maybe GC is getting buddied by brass

I mean, did you see this?

^^ Ty.

Like, how does this come from scum?

[Green Crayons]

GC might've made the kill just to put Mylo in the lynchpool

mylo is and will forever be in the lynch pool. can't imagine a NK that would've taken him out of it.

[Green Crayons]

GC might've made the kill just to put Mylo in the lynchpool

That sounds like a really dangerous idea unless you're his partner.

What's dangerous about this
Kmd was hard defending Mylo and tunneling gc

If he already knew that Something_Smart + Alisae were masons (or substituted me into either of them, doesn't really matter), then the only way he'd be able to win if his partner is Brass or Mylo is by forcing a mislynch onto you or me.

Considering that a lot of people are scumreading him, a lot of people are scumreading Mylo, an increasing amount of people are scumreading Brass, and both of us are widely townread, that's a very tall order to achieve.

This is a lot of discussion about lynch pools that I've never suggested. We lynch from the dave wagon until we hit scum. brass, gc, mylo.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Myloninja13

The ONLY way I can agree to this is if everyone collectively promises that I'm locktown if Mylo flips green

Pretty much agree with this.

[Green Crayons]

In that Dino-scum is a thing only in a mylo-scum world.

[Green Crayons]

Kmd was hard defending Mylo and tunneling gc

I don't remember this at all.

[Green Crayons]

Yesterday twilight made me not comfortable with brass. I intend to reread brass with GL's case in mind.

[Green Crayons]

Brass, who is the scum team or plausible scum team combinations?

[Green Crayons]

Brass, what you said about killing me reminds me that I thought you might have picked up I was mason day 1... you said something about me lying low to avoid getting attention; did you think I might have been a mason for that?

Brass, can you please quote the post that you think SS is referring to?

[Green Crayons]

I'm still on the lynch mylo first train.

[Green Crayons]

Brass, can you please quote the post that you think SS is referring to?

oh nm SS actually indicated what post of yours it was. that's what I get for skimming.

[Green Crayons]

So much for putting in effort today.

[Green Crayons]

GC --> Mylo

FWIW if i were scum I'd probably have killed you first.

[Green Crayons]

Oh lol I thought it was 3 to lynch.

[Green Crayons]

I hadn't really thought about it until you posted that post so (shrug).

[Green Crayons]

ITT: every scum shares who they would've killed and no one claims they would've killed the people who were actually killed

Also this is a very basic level of analysis for a zinger. I can see reasons why both scum and town would admit to killing players who have been killed.

[Green Crayons]

BASIC, BITCH

Nah I <3 you Dino.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: GC

This has been an interesting game lol. Pretty sure there's no scum in Math/Ankanimus here.

Pretty sure you’ve been so disconnected from this game that you know that only because you’re scum.

[Green Crayons]

to hammer or not to hammer

Let me know sooner rather than later so I know whether or not to put in effort to find the last scum.

Mylo

Ank

Dino

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: GC

This has been an interesting game lol. Pretty sure there's no scum in Math/Ankanimus here.

Pretty sure you’ve been so disconnected from this game that you know that only because you’re scum.

Or because it's pretty much been proven by almost every player... Math is obvtown and there has been nothing scummy about Ankimus' play here. Besides, you and Brass have had some pretty blatant connections and not very much towny play.

Dino tell me how this compares to Mylo’s scum game.

You know, the one where you were complaining nobody would read and then ignored me repeatedly when I tried to talk to you about it.

[Green Crayons]

Also is Ank slot’s town slip just a daytalk Q?

Was there something more to it?