Open 718: MLOASR - Game Over

[Mathdino]

okay good i can read lalendra now

you're not D1 mislynching me, get your votes off me, i specifically requested the deadline extension

am i correct in understanding that aubrey is conftown?

[Mathdino]

sounds good

A50 is conftown because i'm 100% on reading A50

that's 3, need i think 2 more to put this game on lock

[Mathdino]

(i followed this game for the A50 meta for the record, i basically ignored everyone else)

redflavor needs to post more so i can read him, will do ISOs of people i recognise first

[Mathdino]

redflavor is playing to his scum meta pretty hard not gonna lie
red you gotta post more, i know you've been around onsite

iconeum's lalendra case gives me icky feelings but i don't think he's had a good enough town record for me to just BoP him

moving on

[Mathdino]

VOTE: RedFlavor

best utility for vote right now

[Mathdino]

myloninja is playing his towngame, dropped a couple towntells
if i die tonight do me a favour and don't lynch him tomorrow

[Mathdino]

wait so why the fuck would we not all just target A50 and/or aubrey

like i'd be pretty fuckin good with half the game targeting A50 and the other half targeting aubrey and having them target each other

everyone in this game except A50/lalendra/myloninja has been scummy as shit tbh and i'd rather work with others

so hmu when someone's online, especially anyone in {A50, Aubrey, RedFlavor}

[Mathdino]

okay but counterpoint: neither of them are scum, so it's not even a risk

copcheck on one of {flubbernugget, iconeum} seems optimal btw

[Mathdino]

what's the difference between betting the game on a hard townread right now, and betting it on a hard townread by not lynching him down the line?

[Mathdino]

aubrey talk to me about reads, you were here and i wasn't

i know A50/mylo are town on my wagon but iconeum/flubber are very ????? to me and i can't read aneninen in general

also i'm trying to think of a way to orchestrate a cop investigation on someone that doesn't lead to false guilties if the cop just gets NK'd

but that's more A50's purview i guess

[Mathdino]

okay fantastic, so that slot is confirmed not the cop

iconeum and the cop both check flubbernugget and we lynch redflavor

unless redflavor is town, in which case we lynch wilky

fairly sure there's scum off of my wagon

[Mathdino]

yeah mathblade is my alt

[Mathdino]

radiantcowbells is also my alt

[Mathdino]

alternatively, we could just force the cop to check whoever we want, and then assign one more person to visit that person just in case

[Mathdino]

i replaced lalendra who was obvtown

[Mathdino]

okay so why were we okay with ordering the cop around on N1 but not on N2?

[Mathdino]

no, i'm legitimately familiar with both redflavor meta and lalendra meta

i'm obviously not considering situations in which i'm scum here when coming up with night action plans lol

i don't lie about optimal mechanics to gain an advantage in open setups, that's suicide as scum

i just haven't put a lot of thought into this setup yet, was much more focused on following your gameplay than your mechanics plan

i know you're probably not gonna believe that last bit but it's not really fun to break setups i'm not playing in

[Mathdino]

A50 get your head out of your ass, you can read me better than this

it's not "Mathdino is wrong about mechanics, therefore he's scum"

that's not a thing that's worked in any game ever lol

[Mathdino]

i already have a good read on myloninja so

why not just send the cop to try to hunt for an inno? have everyone visit aubrey to dodge the PGO

then tomorrow we have cop, JK, aubrey, and the extra cop inno

if the cop dies, we still have 2 innos anyway

[Mathdino]

hey redflavor do you have the ability to visit someone tonight

[Mathdino]

A50 is town, who's scum

[Mathdino]

where did you get the ability to soulread aneninen btw?

[Mathdino]

i haven't been here A50 and i haven't pulled a mathdino on this setup yet lol

i'm not in pushing mode, i'm still getting a feel for it

thoughts on wilky's ISO? i'm trying to follow redflavor but i'm starting to townlean wilky tbh

i'm at a point where i think flubbernugget might be the best lynch today

[Mathdino]

something tells me red's not gonna read all of that lol

i'm currently more interested in his aneninen read

A50 please actually read players though

never setup spec to the exclusion of sorting

Edit: okay good
so redflavor's reads are either awful or he's scum
VOTE: Flubbernugget
i feel like redscum makes up a push on me given that i'm really the only ticket to him surviving

[Mathdino]

i'm legit surprised you're not hard townreading me yet

Edit: redflavor seriously though where'd you get the aneninen reading ability

[Mathdino]

okay redflavor can be town

scum is {Flubber, Montosh} i think?

cop should clear redflavor or wilky imo

A50 help me find a way to make that plan less stupid

Edit: hahaha you're not wrong
anen's a cool guy

[Mathdino]

Not townreading him, didn't feel like combing through his ISO right now

Open to good reasons to think otherwise though

[Mathdino]

But we still don't have a way to tell apart a guilty by pgo from a normal nightkill, right?

[Mathdino]

My slot did, yes
Montosh not scum with wilky
Flubber scum by PoE, nothing to townread in his ISO

[Mathdino]

If flubber flips scum he's probably gonna claim PR anyway
Also i vote for assigning one name only
Scum has no way of knowing if that one person is themselves the PR
So it taints them into not activating
And ensures the vast majority of the game is safe

[Mathdino]

*taunts

[Mathdino]

I lowkey would rather have the d1 scum lynch than have to work around confscum
I guess I see your point though?

[Mathdino]

Everyone else has dropped some kind of towntell

[Mathdino]

Fantastic
Mathdino scumreads all the PRs yet again
Sorry
In that case PoE brings me to I think Montosh

[Mathdino]

I just can't stop scumreading PRs
RedFlavor should be kept alive so I can read him tomorrow
Iconeum/Montosh maybe?

[Mathdino]

Counterclaim is correct yeah
Worth the d1 scum lynch

[Mathdino]

I hydraed with redflavor
He's unexpectedly good town and easily readable as scum
Not lynching him when I can 100% read him tomorrow

[Mathdino]

Ahsoka Tano
Red himself didn't know who he replaced which is actually a massive towntell for what should be obvious reasons

[Mathdino]

You just said he was likely scum, now you suddenly can’t put your finger on it? But can absolutely read him?

That was when he had 5 posts
Lurker redflavor acts a lot like scum redflavor
His posting is pretty town redflavor though
I need more data

[Mathdino]

I respect your reads on other players because you were here and I wasn't
But ya gotta respect the fact that I lowkey know how A50 and redflavor think and have extremely high success rate reading them
It's a towntell. Redflavor doesn't fake that

[Mathdino]

Pool rn is Iconeum, wilky, Montosh
I townread wilky the most but open to discussion

Edit: yes

[Mathdino]

Wait you're literally basing your reads on what my hipfire reads are?
Bro your reads have not been great this game
Like yeah I scumread the cop but he was literally trying not to be townread lol

[Mathdino]

i never understood people's whole "i must come up with the reasons myself in order to read people" mentality

this isn't a case of me playing with redflavor before, this is a case of "i have correctly read redflavor since we hydra'd together and i feel somewhat responsible for helping to improve his towngame"

you're reading effort as alignment indicative. that's not the point. think about it.

llama sends you your new role PM and sends you your scum PT.

you check the scum PT, and see whoever posted in it pre-game. ahsoka tano was site active for the beginning of this game; there is no reason to think that she didn't post in the scum PT.

it is essentially impossible for redflavor-scum to not know who he replaced. so he's either lying, or he's town.

then the question is whether he makes that lie as scum. knowing him, i say he doesn't. i could be wrong! he could've improved at scum since the last time i scummed with him. i don't think he has though. and given another day i can give you a 90% correct read on someone who is better at town than he is at scum.

montosh says so many things without actually making real points. i get the feeling people are "liking" him for the amount of content he produces in a relatively dead game.

i'll be around at the deadline to compromise. current lynch preference is
Montosh > Iconeum (don't totally trust Red's read) > wilky > Red > Myloninja

if we hit scum, jailkeeper should townhunt by clearing Mylo i think
if we hit town, JK should do what they want

VOTE: Montosh

[Mathdino]

My only concern with it is that we're handing control of the kills over to the mafia, meaning we'll have no wagon analysis to work with and no pressure is being put on scum during the first days at least. It also relies on the Cop getting results. Now we do have the plan, meaning that if the cop is NKed then we know who they cleared.

So, all in all, I'm willing to go along with this plan at least for today and see what Day 2 brings, and then see whether it makes sense to have a lynch that day.

this shit for example

this feels like fearmongering without actually even committing to it

it's the classic way that scum react to gamebreaking strategies

a lot of philosophising about it, some resistance, and then a lukewarm decision either way

[Mathdino]

while you make all of what you say sound like very pro-town things

in a bayesian way, the kind of logic you're using just more often comes from scum in my experience

- "i don't believe you can read [x] because i don't trust your alignment". okay, then what DO you trust? how accurate are your reads? how accurately can you read someone based off of 10 posts? are we comparing now?
and sure, maybe you don't trust my alignment. but do you think my slot is scum with redflavor's? because that's literally the only situation in which you shouldn't trust me if i end up townreading redflavor.

- you can argue that you want to scumhunt and get interactions until you're blue in the face. EVERYTHING is potentially readable. including what happened D1. your ISO is basically full of reactions to setup shit, complaining about D1, and complaining about the playerlist. and all you have to show for your desire to actually scumhunt is a weak push on a lurker?

i hate to use LAMIST because that's not even really a tell, but this kind of behaviour is what the LAMIST tell was invented for

a better word is "posturing".

[Mathdino]

you can't blame someone trying to crack the setup open for your lack of motivation. it's 9p, there's 2 scum and 2 TPRs with 1 confirmed town, we have TONS of information. play past the setup shenanigans (which were mainly designed to prevent more town deaths).

speaking from my own experience as scum, i tend to get demotivated when town has clearly mostly solved the game
but then subconsciously blame that demotivation on
- lurkers/people getting prodded or replaced
- spamposters
- people "not playing the game"
- toxicity
etc etc etc
i have no sympathy for your lack of reads
i followed this game from page 1 and had reads (i admit mostly on A50, but also on lalendra). tbh i was scumreading floosh before i rep'd in.

[Mathdino]

Ico also noted that Lalendra seemed to be trying to get a cop claim. I kinda dismissed that post initially but it's worth noting that Math, who took Lalendra's slot, did get the cop to claim.

what does this have to do with anything

again

what the fuck are you trying to say with your posts, dude

[Mathdino]

Mylo just seems like an activity lynch.

What's the case on Ico? The main thing they pushed was the Lalendra read. From what I understand, Ico states that Lalendra goes through with the plan Day 1, and that Day 2 she scumread A50 for constructing the plan that she agreed to.

uhhh i'm stonewalling a mylo lynch. i'd just like it if a JK confirmed them as town if we get a scumflip today
so that's definitely not happening

there's no case on iconeum. i notably can't read aneninen. i have a scumtell on aneninen but he didn't drop it (and wasn't here long enough to) so i have no read on that slot. a very basic argument against iconeum is "iconeum is good at town and scumreads obvtown lalendra"
that said, lalendra is a lynchbaity player in general (see her sig) and draws a LOT of scumreads from players unfamiliar with her meta (cough cough me)

outside of that, it's PoE. aubrey/flubber conftown. A50/mylo essentially 95% town. if you're town, it forces scum in {RedFlavor, wilky, Iconeum}.

[Mathdino]

also upon quick review of their ISOs, i'm currently doubling down on calling the montosh/iconeum scumteam

i welcome being proven wrong by redflavor scumming up his slot tomorrow but i doubt that's gonna happen

[Mathdino]

and draws a LOT of scumreads from players unfamiliar with her meta (cough cough me)

uh to be more clear

i am familiar with her meta, i am not unfamiliar lol

tl;dr i can read her now, yay me

[Mathdino]

is it time for me to lynch everyone scumreading mylo or are most of those people just town anyway

[Mathdino]

tbh i don't think i care enough about hard-defending mylo to go and out all the towntells i'm seeing in his posts
cuz obviously then scum-him would continue dropping towntells and fooling me

i agree that he really should contribute more so it's probably not positive utility for me to swoop in for him here

[Mathdino]

oh boy 4 posts directed at me

@Red/Aubrey: On a strategic level, I don't think it's a good idea for me to explain the Mylo read.

1. While I think my read is good (around 80% confident), I'm pretty sure you guys won't find it good/convincing because the reasons are relatively banal and somewhat I-can't-talk-about-it meta-based. The way I get townreads is different from the way most people do, and it's (unfortunately) usually more effective for me to just shout at people to lynch someone else than quote all the posts I think are townish and get told "No."

2. I don't want to incentivise Mylo to stop producing content just because I'm defending him from being lynched.

3. I could be wrong and if I am, explaining that townread means he's going to take advantage of it later on.

It would really only serve the purpose of helping you read me, and I don't really feel in danger of being lynched within the next 40 hours. If it becomes a serious issue re: my slot or re: Mylo's slot, I'll explain down the line.

[Mathdino]

I know thats the hammer been done now but I disagree that today should have been used to scumhunt alongside A50's plan. It should be one or the other scumhunting also gives scum a chance to pr hunt.

I'm concerned slightly that 4 players, one of whom is now dead, have made about 90% of the posts in this game. There's a low level of engagement, and most people are flying under the radar. We've had a kill with basically no engagement from half the players. We're giving control of the kills to scum and we're basing our chances on luck alone.

This is not a bad plan necessarily, but I think it might be a bad plan on its own.

To be fair I was deliberately quiet d1 as I thought that best play with the plan we had d1 was to deny scum of as much info as possible.

The posts you are referring to cut both ways.
It's literally promoting no scumhunting and denying scum info also means denying town info.

Agreeing with the plan can actually fit a scum agenda the way wilky said it.

I would feel much more comfortable lynching wilky over Montosh here. Partly because I don't really townread Math yet. And in his lynchpool he is kinda protecting wilky still.

Yeah math it looks like you're giving preferential treatment to wilky half assing the setup crack over Montosh

I'm with A50 on this one. I could just as easily argue Iconeum is giving preferential treatment to Montosh. This past page doesn't make me feel any more comfortable with "scum in {Iconeum, Montosh}" theory.

wilky's posts indicates one of 4 scenarios:
A. wilky is town, and purposefully kept quiet to avoid giving away info.

B. wilky is town, lurked, and retroactively lied to himself about why he lurked. (town does this lol)

C. wilky is scum who pretended to have a plan to avoid giving info so he could later reveal the plan and get towncred for it (as he's gotten). Imitating (A).

D. wilky is scum who lurked because he's scum, and is lying to us about why he lurked.

I don't find D likely. There's nothing in his posts that indicates that he just made up the "Oh I was TRYING to lurk, guys!" excuse. It seems like you guys are accusing him of that but that just doesn't happen very often.

So then the question is literally whether or not he, as scum, would fake "town lurking D1 because it's pro-town not to give away info". NGL that's a pretty scum-RedFlavor thing to do but my understanding of wilky is currently that I don't think he would do that.

[Mathdino]

The difference between wilky and Montosh is that wilky was entirely onboard with the plan, and his D1 lurking reflects his understanding of it.

Montosh was sorta-onboard but argued against it, saying that it shouldn't replace scumhunting... yet he hasn't done any quality scumhunting.

The impression I get from Montosh is posturing. Effort is not alignment-indicative -- I'm not giving "preferential treatment" for the same behaviour. It's more nuanced than that.

[Mathdino]

iconeum

wilky or mylo (off policy) if it came to the deadline

[Mathdino]

legit don't understand why anyone is townreading montosh outside of sympathising with his AtE complaining

[Mathdino]

i would like to point out btw that the only people that wilky-scum is consistent with are myloninja and myself

the wagon on wilky is so obviously scum motivated lol

there's 0 effort to solve the game there

it's a reaction to me/A50 control basically

[Mathdino]

wow after 2 days of people talking about how bad it is that no one's scumhunting we're policy lynching a low activity player

VOTE: Montosh

or we could vote actual scum

who can wilky even be scum with

[Mathdino]

Who can montosh be scum with?

- iconeum
- redflavor
- mylo (if i'm wrong there)
i'm not wrong about A50 so i'm excluding him

look through montosh's ISO, it's devoid of associations or holistic comments about the playerlist

[Mathdino]

the fact that no one except A50 has picked up my comments on montosh or really taken them seriously is also a massive red flag

if wilky is even capable of getting lynched today, it heavily implies he's not scum

scum doesn't bus D1/D2 in this setup

[Mathdino]

if it's not iconeum, then no sell my friend

i can promise a 90-95% read on redflavor tomorrow

and mylo is fundamentally easier to read than iconeum/montosh

montosh is good at scum. was by far the most town-looking mafia member in the game i recently modded

but the point is this

montosh makes sense as scum with the maximum number of partners

he is the most economical lynch, despite the fact that he's active

[Mathdino]

i'm not getting iconeum's vote, and probably not redflavor's. i might get wilky's out of self-preservation if he's here before deadline. if not he probably doesn't deserve to be alive lol

then i need 2 more out of myloninja, flubber, and aubrey. i'm willing to deconstruct any montosh townreads for this

Edit: guess i need 1 more

[Mathdino]

The fact that you CAN make an argument doesn't make it true
You've done little work to really sort slots

[Mathdino]

I was pretty consistently against the idea of not scumhunting throughout the day. That was my argument, that's all. I don't know what you mean by "quality" scumhunting. I've been pushing the lynch on my top scumread, and been developing some townreads. Personally I think both are useful.

- Montosh claims he was against the idea of not scumhunting. That's fine. The point is that he hasn't actually done any scumhunting since then.

- Montosh claims that he's been doing useful things. To counter that, I've gone through his entire ISO starting on D2.

Spoiler: Montosh's Useless ISO

113: Complaining about D1. Rhetorical question, useless.
116: Saying we could've gotten more info had we actually lynched. Crying over spilled milk, useless.
128: States the obvious (everyone has to check in guys!). Claims he wants to scumhunt, and that others might disagree. Petty, useless.
129: Complains about lurkers/low content. Fearmongering, offers no solutions, useless.
143: Continues to argue that the plan was bad. Crying over spilled milk, useless.
155: Specs that profii was killed for crumbing cop, useless.
158: Outright bitches about D1, useless.
174: First game relevant post:
- Pushes wilky for lurking. Asks a bunch of questions, doesn't follow up on any of them.
- Calls Aubrey obvtown. Calls A50's plan pro-town (wow so all the bitching was unnecessary then) and A50 town.
- Literally "you should be voting your scumreads. If you have scumreads then vote them". Thanks, Captain Obvious.
175: Instead of sorting town/scum, sorts people into "active" and "not active" and claims one scum in each (what the fuck is this logic? why?). Claims scum in wilky/Lalendra. This is wrong and potentially sets up 2 mislynches. Also useless by way of bad reads.
180: One liner about N1 plan.
185: Justifies his logic by arguing that everyone is lurking so he's reading into the active pool. Read this post and tell me it makes sense.
203: Tells wilky he hasn't been scumhunting, continues bitching about lack of information.
209: Tells wilky he's "maintaining the appearance of content". Genius argument. Continues to tell wilky why wilky is scum rather than actually arguing to everyone else.
229: Fluff.
230: Continues to tell wilky why wilky could be scum.
231: Casts doubt on effectiveness of N1 plan.
233: "I never said I scumread Aubrey". I mean he's not wrong. Still useless.
249: "I don't scumread Aubrey, but he's not confirmed town". HOW DOES THIS HELP ANYONE?
250: Continues setup spec discussion, lightly defends A50.
252: Continued setup discussion.
258: Continued setup discussion.
277: "I'm rusty" excuse. "Lalendra is scummy but I"m not voting her because she's low-hanging fruit". Scumreads wilky for active lurking when that is wilky's playstyle.
279: Parrots Aubrey's reason for TRing Lalendra.
288: Setup spec.
304: "Lalendra is too scummy to be scum".
305: Justifies his wilky push... to wilky... using his own bad logic from bad assumptions earlier with his "active bloc".
321: Fluff. Useless post.

By this point I've replaced in.

Prior to my replace-in, less than 20% of his posts are actually advancing the gamestate. The rest are setup spec, complaining about D1/N1, complaining about lurkers, moon logic, and telling wilky why wilky is scum. No reads on any slots outside of {Aubrey, Lalendra, wilky, A50}.

[Mathdino]

legit don't understand why anyone is townreading montosh outside of sympathising with his AtE complaining

Where am I AtE? Or complaining even? I stated a legitimate concern I had with what I perceived as the possible effects of a town plan. I was largely correct about what occurred.

Montosh has literally dozens of posts since the start of D2 talking about those effects instead of actually scumhunting. You've done even less scumhunting than A50, the person who came up with this "let's not scumhunt D1" plan in the first place.

And fuck off with the "I was largely correct". I had strong reads on 7/9 slots (counting myself because I was strongly townreading myself) when I replaced in. You have the content to do town work. You're just not.

Everything here is a blatant misrepresentation. Either you're doing that on purpose or you're not reading, either way, my townread on you is quickly dissipating.

scum!wilky is consistent with

anyone

other than the conftown right now. You absolutely do not have enough info to group the various players which scummy behaviour to any degree of accuracy like you're saying you can. You say there's obvious scum motivation, well I don't see it, so please explain the scum motivation rather than just making assertions.

I was pushing wilky before you even replaced in, so it's not a reaction to you, and while A50 was townleading to some extent, he certainly wasn't dominating the entire thread in the same way. So this whole thing is so wrong.

- Are you threatening me? Why should I care that you're townreading me less for calling you out on your bullshit?

- "I don't have enough info to make reasoned judgments so no one does". Give me a fucking break. You claimed that there's 1 scum in the "active group" and 1 scum in the "inactive group" without backing that shit up at all. Do you have viable scumteams that work with wilky?
Suppose wilky is scum with someone other than me or Myloninja, as I've proposed. Okay, then who is he scum with? Is scum bussing him? Why is scum bussing him? Why not just lynch you? Why not help out with the Flubber wagon?
You've spent your entire goddamn ISO tearing people and this game down instead of actually coming up with fleshed out reads yourself.

- wilky is a compromise lurker lynch that no one other than me is fighting. Literally my entire PoE pool (the people I'm not townreading) is in support of his lynch. You didn't need me to explain this to you, dude. Stop pretending you're so much better at explaining yourself.

- I didn't claim YOU were reacting to me/A50. I was responding to that entire page, where Iconeum/Flubber/Aubrey/Red all stepped in to argue that wilky was a fine lynch (and that I was giving wilky preferential treatment over you).

It’s mostly an activity lynch.

No for me. It's a wagon on my top scumread.

Except you fucking justified this scumread in the first place using active lurking, which is well known to be wilky's playstyle, and then you started tunneling him for everything he did. It's entirely an activity lynch.

Again, this is not a policy lynch. In addition, you're aware enough to see that wilky doesn't have enough votes to go through as it is. So don't claim we're "lynching" him right now when you can clearly tell it's not happening as things stand.

Really? Iconeum just expressed that he would vote wilky. Aubrey hopping on makes 5. I'm canvassing because I'm in a losing position right now w.r.t. my preferred wagons.

So explain how wilky doesn't have enough votes, yeah?

[Mathdino]

Scum will do whatever they can to win. So if bussing does that then they bus.

But regardless if wilky is scum he only has one partner. Any many people here are defending him (at least softly), so I don't see why you think bussing is the only option.

THIS IS SUCH A MEANINGLESS FUCKING STATEMENT.

Read through Montosh's ISO since I replaced in. It's HILARIOUSLY full of statements that dodge taking an actual stance on anything, yet acting like he still has something useful to say. NO SHIT SCUM WILL DO WHAT THEY WILL TO WIN. That doesn't answer the fundamental question of: If wilky is being bussed, WHO IS BUSSING HIM?

And who is defending him? It's literally me, who you townread, and A50, who you also townread. Your view of the gamestate is utterly inconsistent with your stated reads.

This lynch on wilky would've happened already if it weren't for me. You know that.

While I thank you for your confidence in my ability to play scum, it is somewhat misplaced. In that game you modded, I was not the most-looking member, I was the least, given that I was the only one of my team who might have actually been lynched that last day, were it not for that fakeclaim.

This is Open 711 if anyone wants to confirm this. Hell, read Math's endgame analysis near the end of the thread if you don't believe me.

That's literally just because skitter30 and NSG have decent reads. From a mod's eye view, you looked the most town out of {Creature, Not_Mafia, Montosh}.

You're nitpicking a particular part of my statement without addressing the actual facts -- that you're capable of producing this amount of content as scum.

[Mathdino]

if we can get the votes i am willing to compromise with you by lynching iconeum instead

[Mathdino]

Probably makes Iconeum more likely to be scum

[Mathdino]

Meh you don't really count towards my narrative or read on the gamestate since you're conftown

[Mathdino]

Wait lol is Aubrey still voting redflavor
That's definitely not happening

[Mathdino]

There are 4 of us here. We can gut Iconeum rn.
VOTE: Iconeum
Let's go guys

[Mathdino]

The exact reasoning he used to scumread lalendra was exactly how I knew lalendra is town
He was surface level scumhunting

Again you keep conflating activity/effort with alignment

[Mathdino]

Wat
I mean the posts he used to argue lalendra was scum was how I knew lalendra was town
You can't read every player using the exact same tells dude

[Mathdino]

The fact that you CAN make an argument doesn't make it true
You've done little work to really sort slots

And you've just made assertions about who's town based on "meta".

If you unironically believe that my content is bad because I make assertions based on meta, I really don't know how to convince you here

I hold Iconeum to a higher standard of logical nuance than I hold redflavor/myloninja

[Mathdino]

Montosh lemme put it this way
Who the fuck else are we going to lynch, we're hours away from the deadline and you just agreed there's little to no resistance to the wilky wagon
Yet Iconeums vote is still on me
Scum wants this day to end in no lynch
Vote Iconeum or I will pull back onto lynching you for tunneling wilky

[Mathdino]

it's not my decision montosh

it's literally "we need to lynch someone, either you're going to be responsible for no lynch or i will ensure that we lynch one of you and iconeum"

you fundamentally don't seem to understand the idea that playing with someone helps in figuring out how they think

and thus in identifying when they're making shit up

i've played with everyone in this game outside of conftown aubrey

i don't really have time to explain townplay to you man

[Mathdino]

like my assumption, which may be unfounded since i haven't seen your towngame

is either that you're scum or you've been playing this game absolutely awfully

i was intimidated by going through your ISO because i didn't want to have to analyse so much content

but then i realised that the vast majority of your content is trash, hypocrisy, not taking firm stances, and complaining about decisions that have already been made

if you want the game to be focused on reads, you fucking give reads and engage the inactive players

you know

like i've been doing since my first post

[Mathdino]

we have 4 fucking hours montosh

this game is essentially on lock if we can actually lynch every day

you are not lynching me, A50, redflavor, or myloninja. you don't have the votes. people are literally not present.

and unless you think wilky is scum with me (and wtf you think i'm scum for correctly pointing out that your play has been bad? you're literally OMGUSing here) or A50 (not possible, i'm telling you right now i have a 100% track record of reading A50 as scum AND town, we're friends, I CAN IDENTIFY HIS SCUMGAME)
you are correct in that the lack of resistance to lynching wilky makes wilky town

so the decision is up to you whether you want to avoid no lynch by lynching someone other than yourself (iconeum)
or bring it down to the deadline and almost certainly get fucked over tomorrow

put your money where your mouth is. do the mechanically AND reads-based correct move, or solidify yourself as the most anti-town player in a game half full of lurkers and replacements

[Mathdino]

doesn't matter we don't have the votes, wilky isn't gonna show up

be sure to be there by deadline, townbloc

if montosh doesn't budge and/or this goes to a no lynch, we lynch
montosh --> iconeum
absolutely no exceptions, regardless of flips

[Mathdino]

If this flips scum it would be pretty chill if the jailkeeper checked Montosh while flubber clears myloninja

If it flips town then yeah do whatever

Everyone else target Aubrey

[Mathdino]

I mean if I'm wrong about you AND Iconeum then I accept that wilky is probably confirmed scum with Mylo or something

[Mathdino]

oh right this game
if jailkeeper has a guilty, they claim it right now
otherwise
VOTE: Montosh

on the to-do list:
- get flubber's copcheck
- threaten to policy lynch myloninja/wilky if they don't post more
- threaten to policy lynch redflavor for avoiding me if he doesn't post more
- get A50's thoughts on possible scumteams
- metadive both wilky and montosh

[Mathdino]

Iconeum (5) - wilky, Mathdino, Almost50, Montosh, Aubrey
wilky (2) - Flubbernugget, RedFlavor
Montosh (1) - Myloninja13
Mathdino (1) - Iconeum

preliminary VCA suggests... that i'm scum whoops

fuck deadline lynches, i do take responsibility for that one

clearly wilky and montosh aren't scum together i think. hardbussing is suicide in a setup with a cop and a jailkeeper. it's not realistic. so one scum was off the iconeum wagon.

meaning one of my reads on redflavor/mylo was wrong. in terms of analysing my own reads, i'm far more likely to be dead wrong on mylo i think.

awaiting flubber's copcheck.

[Mathdino]

i would fucking lol if i was actually just wrong on A50 though

gonna have to double check myself there as well

[Mathdino]

scumteam is montosh/redflavor btw

if it's not montosh it's actually still redflavor (the scum on the wilky wagon)

red might be our optimal lynch today

[Mathdino]

why redflavor is scum with montosh:

Montosh is town
Wilky is scum

this doesn't really need an annotation

Why montosh

"why my scumbuddy"
this is literally a redflavor scumtell

why montosh is scum with redflavor:

No no. I'm with Aubrey here. I don't think ignoring basic info about the game is a towntell at all. Like, I get you've played with them before and think you have good meta on them, and maybe you do, but I don't. I don't particularly scumread Red or A50. On A50, i've seen him both as town and as scum once now, which while not alot, does make me feel town for him. The way he was in the town game (your game Math) is more reminiscent of this than as scum. There's a similar jumping between topics and votes, along with a desire to plan out the town.

justifies the A50 townread
doesn't justify the red non-scumread literally at all
redflavor's ISO is just as devoid of content as wilky's. town-montosh suspects redflavor here

I didn't say what you think I'm saying. I don't scumread Red. I said I'm not willing to townread them based on your meta. Frankly, I don't get how you don't understand this. I don't know you're town, and even if you are, I don't believe you can 100% read anyone here. What reason do I have to blindly sheep your townreads?

I do find it weird that Red asked who they replaced when the mod posted that info right above their first post. But it was their first posts and I was willing to forgive it, figuring they were catching up. [snip]

setting me up for redflavor not actually being town (without outright pushing redflavor)

hedges his read on red

the scumteam is either Montosh/RedFlavor or wilky/Myloninja

outside chance of wilky/Redflavor (lol Red unnecessarily bussing as scum yet again), RedFlavor/Mylo (weird team, both offwagon, wtf), and A50/wilky (don't think A50 defends a town wilky like that)

[Mathdino]

I meam, I can follow that!

Not seeing the NL requirement tho

Wow, this game feels empty.
All of D1 is just theory talk. Wooo no scumhunting or any AI posts

Wow, this game feels empty.
All of D1 is just theory talk. Wooo no scumhunting or any AI posts

You agreed to the plan without a thought though...

I did think about it though! I then agreed to it and questioned the no lynch requirement!

Did you miss that or are you being intentionally deceitful?

you appear to be missing these hilariously scummy posts

[Mathdino]

you only think it's math/a50 because we're friends
this happens every game we're in together
the likelihood of us rolling scum together is hilariously low, combined with
- what are the chances that A50 strongarms this strategy as scum
- what are the chances A50 was scum with lalendra the whole time
- what are the chances that i strongly townread A50 before even getting here and then being wrong

i followed this game for the A50 town meta my dude

[Mathdino]

idk i would shoot the cop or someone that i've figured out is the JK (i'm a human rolecop eyoooo)

the risk of allowing a cop investigation to go through and creating 4 conftown (or getting a guilty on me) is so incredibly high

that all is beside the point

this probably points to the redflavor/montosh idea even more

flubberrrr aubreyyyyy halp

[Mathdino]

hey A50 remember that game where your team mafia captain Lang Buddha referred to lalendra as part of the Female Bloc

[Mathdino]

oh yeah you should have a better handle on montosh's meta here. i only had a bird's eye view

is montosh scum and why

also have you played with town montosh

[Mathdino]

better hope we have a guilty then

[Mathdino]

so is anyone gonna pop in here and vote or what

[Mathdino]

everyone's checked in except flubber

so unless flubber has a guilty on myloninja (or anyone else i guess?)

we're lynching in {montosh, redflavor} today

we can safely assume JK does not have a guilty and instead protected in {aubrey, flubber}

[Mathdino]

aubrey, if redflavor is town, he's sheeping me, straight up
he knows my reads are good, we hydra'd together, and he knows i advocate for sheeping in general

scum-him either lets me lead town off a cliff here or he thinks he's in a position where he's forced to bus (a position he's been in as scum multiple times with town-me)

all in all, it's scum-indicative

you and flubber can call the shot on redflavor vs montosh if you want

[Mathdino]

you're biased against scumreading montosh because
- high effort
- he and you strongly vibe on A50's plan ruining D1 and the gamestate

but they're scum together so it doesn't matter

if red flips scum, JK and cop both target montosh
cop dies, montosh is cleared
JK and cop both die, montosh is scum
no one dies, cop has an inno/guilty

[Mathdino]

bag em and tag em guys

it's montosh/redflavor

my meta read of redflavor is just "if he posts more i can read him"

he is not posting more, i had a singular towntell on him, the "who did i replace?" thing

his play today however constitutes a scumclaim

vote vote vote

[Mathdino]

Also, am I the only one concerned that we have two conftown, yet Math is the one trying to make himself town leader?

hahahahaha

are you scumreading me or not? you can't seem to decide my man

if you want to work with me and my lynchpool, you lynch red. i'm not lynching wilky and neither is A50. also doubt myloninja does.

one conftown doesn't seem willing to vote/pressure anyone

and the other has made one post all day

so how would you prefer this day go?

[Mathdino]

Then why aren't you sheeping him

[Mathdino]

flubber, what other read is wilky supposed to have from his POV when montosh has literally been trying to lynch no one but wilky for the past 2 days

from wilky's POV, the nonconftown are {Mathdino, A50, Red, Mylo, Montosh}

if he townreads me and A50, wtf else is he supposed to do?

we're basically in lylo in terms of "the game is near solved from every townie's POV"

i would be more suspicious if he had reads other than "montosh is clearly scum"

[Mathdino]

is this because of NSG's game

[Mathdino]

everyone gives me shit for NSG's game lol

[Mathdino]

you mean like montosh doesn't have?

[Mathdino]

also different though

in that game, i wasn't townreading my own slot before replacing in. the townreads i had available were katyusha and HEM, and i PoE'd it down to 2 possible teams in 7p

i'd say that's pretty decent

here however my townreads were {Lalendra, A50} with conftown aubrey in 9p

we're now in 8p (effectively 5p) and i've narrowed it down to 2 possible teams

i can be wrong and still win here

[Mathdino]

fantastic

look at the interactions

i'm calling the teams as Montosh/RedFlavor and wilky/Myloninja, with an outside chance of wilky/RedFlavor

i actually lowkey think Red is a better lynch today but there's more support for Montosh right now

[Mathdino]

A50 is confirmed town by virtue of being my strongest townread and by the fact that i've never read him wrong (except the one time i townread his D1 SK game and called him as SK in the dead thread)

so the only possible team with A50 on it is math/A50 if you want to include that

and for the sake of objectivity, i'll throw in math/wilky for you

[Mathdino]

VOTE: RedFlavor

i like typing

Tab --> Space actually hits submit immediately

[Mathdino]

I actually shot for Montosh primarily because we had reds bus vote
As it is we'll need Aubrey and myloninja

[Mathdino]

Oh yay! Mylo or montosh can hammer
Hey Montosh if this flips green you're conftown
And it's a possible partner for wilky
Join the Red side

[Mathdino]

i mean it's not like i was able to instantly tell redflavor was a doctor the last time he played PR

i would lolhammer in your position

i respect your patience however

[Mathdino]

IF THIS FLIPS SCUM, BOTH JK AND COP SHOULD VISIT MONTOSH

[Mathdino]

yeah what's up?

[Mathdino]

are you thinking of doing a more expansive plan to try to test 2 different people?

[Mathdino]

Mylo isn't that obvious as scum, A50
Mylo is locktown still

[Mathdino]

Wait fuck it can't be wilky Montosh
Whatever

[Mathdino]

red's not town guys lol

he's been posting elsewhere come on

[Mathdino]

wait what

[Mathdino]

wait what could possibly have been the game winning strategy there wtf

[Mathdino]

tbh i would've lynched him today after montosh got cleared anyway

jailkeeper here

[Mathdino]

hey A50 remember when i replaced into a scumgame, shot doctor lalendra, and replaced out

i strongly believed lalendra was the cop here when i replaced in

turned out i was just one power role wrong

but that's what i meant by "great i can read lalendra now"

[Mathdino]

he probably thought the jailkeeper might be like "eyyy fuck the plan" and jail him instead

but if he thought that he should've just not killed, obviously...

A50's break of the setup is correct, and llama's solution also seems correct

although i feel like llama's solution is super scumsided? on average it should lead to about 2 deaths per night...

[Mathdino]

OKAY OKAY

I WAS WAITING FOR ELEMENTAL LARGE TO FINISH BUT THEN I DECIDED TO WAIT FOR THIS ONE TOO

I NEVER STOP PR HUNTING I NEED TO CUT OFF THE WAIT AT SOME POINT

[Mathdino]

wtf

wilky why would you visit me on n2, if you died to PGO it wouldn't be clear who you visited (were you trying to get yourself killed...?)

why the fuck did mafia not kill on N2 with 3 conftown holy shit

wilky/flubber y u no target anyone on N3

wtf was this game

[Mathdino]

oh yeah thanks for modding this experimental setup llama, i was pretty into it

i suspected there was a breaking strategy but i couldn't think of one before it went into sign-ups so i decided to wait for a good replacement

hope things get better for you/family

you modded better than the players played

[Mathdino]

wilky's action was probably wrong

N2 was probably role PM wording i'm guessing

sometimes mods have it so roleblockers stop the action from occurring altogether