Open 722: Red Flag [Endgame]

[callforjudgement]

I think it'd have better theoretical balance but be not much fun to play. By day 3, one faction or the other is going to be really depressed.

Was this setup fun or interesting enough for people? Would any of you play it again?

I personally wouldn't play this setup again, but a major part of it is that this game has helped confirm to me that I don't have the time for anything bigger than a Micro if I'm playing from D1. (I'm the sort of person who almost always replaces in.)

D3 was pretty stressful for me; it was clear to me that many of my reads were wrong but not what the specific issues with them were. Additionally, when scum numbers get low, the game turns into something of a slog even though town are winning; even before then, a scum-on-scum kill (like on D2), although it leaves town better off (unless it happens very close to the start of the game), doesn't really make them

feel

better off and it rather prolongs the game. It probably isn't much fun from the scum's point of view if one of them gets lynched early, either.

So I guess it's fairly like 2:11 vanilla – my previous example of a highly skewed setup – in how the game feels. The exception is D1, which is a lot of fun. I already came up with a way to effectively extract Red Flag's D1 into its own, balanced setup (which should also have the advantage of being fast to play as it's only one day). I need to go post it over in Open Setups Discussion.

[callforjudgement]

Even after reading the scum PT I still don't understand the KTS kill. It's not explained there either.

The most I can make out was that scum were planning to kill KTS to stop him pushing TheBrie and then for some reason didn't change their minds even after TheBrie got lynched?

i had enough scum pinned to win the game even if cj died. pisskop was in both of my teams and my general poe. hiraki was the only place i was fooled.

After a CJ kill N1, scum could have let you push a mislynch or two and then kill you before you got to the correct reads. You had enough scum there, but not towards the top of your remaining reads list.

[callforjudgement]

By the way, here's my setup that was partially inspired by this one.

[callforjudgement]

What confuses me is how people can read pisskop based on that small an amount of content.

There was actually a scummy post in his ISO, but only one; hardly enough to get a real read. I know Creature thought that pisskop was town, and then later scum because he was lurking

too

much, but he'd actually just siteflaked, which is always null as it's unlikely to have had anything to do with the game.

[callforjudgement]

Right, I had a scumread on BV by the end (I correctly read him as trying to save BBT, even though I was wrong as to the reason behind it).

It's the fairly strong reads on pisskop that I saw D1 and D2 (and early D3) that confuse me.

[callforjudgement]

BTW, about the setup: I did an EV calculation, and scum killing each other is actually negative EV (although in the case of a D1 scum lynch, the difference is very small, less than 1%). It may still be the best strategy based on dayplay, though.

[callforjudgement]

The only reasons to infolynch are:

a) When there's a very close tie between two highly scummy players, to lynch the one that's more likely to help you solve the game if you're wrong (I would have avoided lynching MathDino today if he was closely tied with BBT or BV, as those flips would be much more useful in solving the setup)
b) When it's part of a breaking strategy, and you have a guaranteed win if the lynch target flips town.

These are both very rare situations.

[callforjudgement]

Sure. I think the first one you quoted is the best, but it's up to you.

[callforjudgement]

Last time I played in a setup that pisskop was

modding

, I had to prod him repeatedly, and eventually get the listmods to prod him (they appointed a backup mod). I concluded that if pisskop was going to lurk even in that situation, where he had every incentive to post and no chance of harming a win condition by doing so, he was going to lurk regardless. That was back in September.