Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Why don't you tell us why you think BuJaber is town? Is it because he doesn't want to get townread for asking about the setup?In post 83, Egg wrote:I think BuJaber is town, but it's not because he reminded the Mod something was missing in the OP.-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Could you please elaborate a bit why you think eragon is towny?In post 80, ManateeDude wrote:Thinking eragons towny and inferno is weirdy-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Careful. I didn't say Eragon's fluff outweighs his content. I said I don't like his fluff. I'm not even sure if I scumread him.In post 101, Egg wrote:Fromage, why does eragons fluff outweigh his content?-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Read: I don't (seriously) scumread eragon.In post 115, Fromage wrote:I'm not even sure if I scumread him.-
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Fromage Goon
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Iirc, you said yourself that discussing PRs is anti-town. I agree and think the same applies to discussing optimal scum tactics. Do you disagree?
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Fromage Goon
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Have you changed your mind?In post 58, GameNBurger wrote:I personally always feel uneasy with fast lynches Day 1-
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Fromage Goon
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like without sarcasm. I think these are positive contributions to town.In post 128, Eragon wrote:like as in 'sarcastic' "like" or like as in "like"?
Maybe these associations are possible but imho they aren't very useful. Basing your read of a player on another player who hasn't flipped yet is very speculative. (This might be different in Lylo)In post 128, Eragon wrote:associations are VERY possible this early.
Are you saying Inferno is almost certainly scum? He exagerates and OMGUS all the time. (At least in this game. I want to take a look at his other games later).In post 128, Eragon wrote:this post almost never comes from town.
Because I wanted you to stop fluffposting and I didn't scumread anyone else either.In post 128, Eragon wrote:then why did you vote me if you dont SR me???-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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I don't like how Burger put Inferno at L-1 and is fine with quicklynching him. Yes, inferno's behaviour has been consistent but I doubt this is a scum tell. In 58 Burger says he wants to hear more from poseidon and me before he puts inferno at L-1. Poseidon posts hardly anything 76 and I post very little. Then he just puts inferno at L-1. In 58 he said he feels uneasy quicklynching. But I don't recognize any uneasiness in 130 .
I also don't like 97. It contains a lot of speculation and focuses on one single interaction between manatee and inferno. Imho it's WIFOM. In addition to that I don't understand why he looks at manatee's meta but not at inferno's 98. Other people mentioned the possibility of inferno being lynchbait. Burger just excludes this possibility. 114 I cannot follow his thought process.
To conclude, I think Burger might be scum due to his inconsistent behaviour.
VOTE: GameNBurger-
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Fromage Goon
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@Inferno: Could you please link us some of your games and maybe give a short summary?
If you do this, please also explain how your meta has improved and if this holds true in our game.In post 11, Inferno390 wrote:I swear my meta has improved, BuJaber.-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Apart from you, the only people off the wagon are egg, Bujaber and me. We have all more or less expressed scepticism against quicklynching inferno. Your post might be LAMIST.In post 151, Eragon wrote:I don’t like someone just sitting at L-1, becuase scum can quickhammer if they want(bad idea, but still)
What do you think of Burger's L-1 vote?
Pedit: A scum self-hammer isn't so bad for town.-
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Fromage Goon
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Sorry for my absence. I've read through page 11.
I don't like how Eragon urged the hammer-happy Almost50 to unvote so he could place the L-1 vote. Unsure if it's scummy though. However I liked how he unvoted inferno after the AtE. Reconsidering your reads is good in my view. I'd also like to know why Eragon townreads me.
I think it was right of inferno not to claim when he was at l-2 but don't understand why he refused to hammer when he was at l-1 and intent was stated.
Egg's posts feel townie.-
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Fromage Goon
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Why??? Effort is not alignment-indicative. And if Game was scum, writing about non-existent scum-buddies is a very easy way to put in effort withouth having to reveal anything.In post 514, Toranaga wrote:ok this is never scum-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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7% is already significantly higher than 0%. And your odds are based on random play. I think the real odds are higher than 1/14thIn post 621, GameNBurger wrote:Potentially there the scenario where you really are town and are hoping the other detective can catch the scum making your kill but that’s 1/14 chance of that happening and those odds are slim AND they’re one shot, once scum shoot you they now know which guy to send to kill after that one night-
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Fromage Goon
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How can you be so sure of this?In post 619, GameNBurger wrote:So do us a favor, full claim please because at this point you’re being taken out tonight no matter what-
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Fromage Goon
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You just sheeped the others and put me at L-1 like it was no big deal. And that's after A50 had said running unclaimed people up was bad. You also speculate about PRs when we previously established it was anti-town. 593 So I don't have a firm scumread of you but these actions are definitely anti-town.In post 624, Poseidon wrote:And I'd really love to know where you get SR's from Eragon and myself.-
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Fromage Goon
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I don't get why you now agree with A50. You had no qualms hammering me. Why have you changed your mind?In post 649, GameNBurger wrote:And if that’s happening we really need to lynch Tor since we shouldn’t force out any claims more than we’ve already done
Let's talk on day 2 what to do then. Now is not the right time for it. If a majority of players want me to fullclaim, I will do so.In post 649, GameNBurger wrote:SO FROMAGE: will you fullclaim day 2?-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Because we said that we won't lynch a claimed PR. So claiming a TPR guarantees scum to survive day-1. Isn't this obvious?In post 657, Eragon wrote:why would i not?
VOTE: Eragon-
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Fromage Goon
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Because there's a 2/9 chance as well I randed scum. If you were scum would you claim VT or a TPR?In post 660, Eragon wrote:but why would i not beleive a TPR claim??
Because they didn't vote me in the first place or they explicitly told me not to claim (wh4t).and why are you pushing me but not the other people that believed your claim?-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Why do I scumread Eragon?
In 551 he scumreads me. Initially people ignore him and he doesn't vote me. The "hopefully" announced elaboration also doesn't materialise. Then he happily joins the pressure wagon but doesn't clarify whether he actually thinks I'm scum or if he just wants to get me talking. 571 After I claim his scumread of me is totally gone. That's weird.
The mod called Eragon out for some emotional posts. 689 These don't fit well together with his statements that he completely lost his "WIM". Why would an indifferent player get so worked up?
When I attacked Eragon for fluffposting, he stopped doing it. But after I explained I wasn't really scumreading him, he resumed.
He seems to care how others read him.
What I mentioned earlier:
A50 obliges and unvotes inferno.In post 151, Eragon wrote:@A50 do you mind unvoting
I don’t like someone just sitting at L-1, becuase scum can quickhammer if they want(bad idea, but still)
You are also the one I trust most on the wagon, so I am comfortable leaving you with a vote
Manatee is scummy IME, I don’t know how to feel about burger, and Poseidon is legit null.Spoiler:There weren't a lot of posts in between. In 61, 135 and 154 Eragon also mentioned that he doesn't want to have a quickhammer. Keep in mind that a50 threatened quickhammers all the time. Changing your mind on such a fundamental question might be indication of scum-motivation.
I also agree with A50 that there are some posts which look townie at first. But actually these posts might be written by scum in order to get towncred. 118, 377 and 415 fit in this pattern-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Why would a fakehammer need to be coordinated by scum? I think it's unlikely a fake-hammer results in a lock townread. AfaIk most fakehammers don't work because people can count the votes/ realize the hammer is already on their wagon. Anyway a lock-townread on day-1 isn't so bad for scum.In post 736, Wh4t wrote:I just don't see why scum would attempt the fake hammer on Tor? Scum do not have daychat so it's unlikely it was orchestrated between them. There is no reason for scum to fake hammer because if the target spews town when they believe they are hammered then they've shot themselves in the foot by giving everyone a lock townread.
How sure are you that Tor is town btw? More or less likely than Eragon?-
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Fromage Goon
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I absolutely prefer to lynch Tor over A50, Bujaber or a no-lynch. I thought whether manatee's replace out was scum-indicative but it's probably just WIFOM. I don't like that toranga claimed when he was at L-1 without intent. 312
529 feels weird. It just doesn't make sense. I don't get how he got from townreading me to voting me and how often his reads of GameNBurger changed. But that's probably not a scumtell.
On the other hand, he has original thoughts and doesn't sheep too much. So the slot is mostly meh for me. I'd say there's a 30% chance he flips scum.
I'm also not 100% sure Eragon is scum. I would assess the odds at 70% percent but I tend to be over-confident in my scumreads, so the real odds are more likely to be 40%.-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Keep calm and vote EragonIn post 788, Poseidon wrote:I'm so confused right now-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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You ignored my second questionIn post 811, Eragon wrote:
because i want him to show that he actually will follow through with his high-talk about me being scum and lynching me no matter whatIn post 809, Fromage wrote:Why is it important if A50 votes you now or later?
Do you promise to self-hammer if A50 votes you?-
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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Fromage Goon
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I think it was unfortunate for the mafia that an active player who strongly townread both of them got lynched on day-1. A no-lynch would have been much better for them.
Glad I ended up as part of the winning side. My townreads (egg, inferno, bujaber, a50) were a lot better than my scumreads. I wonder if this is just because 3/4th of the other players are also town or if I'm actually better at townreading.
I scumread Eragon for some okay reasons. Others were far fetched. Just because someone disagrees with me whether or not to self-hammer as VT, doesn't make them confirmed scum. On the other hand Tor as well as Poseidon speculated about VTs / PRs. So some anti-town actions might be scum-indicative after all.
In short, hindsight is 20/20.
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