Open 750: Forest Fire (Game Over)

[Persivul]

VOTE: mod

For not including a link in the start PM.

[Persivul]

I won the last tree game. I wonder if I can win again?

What alignment were you?

[Persivul]

Voting lovebird because

I'm

disrespectful?

VOTE: bujaber

[Persivul]

You think that's scummy?

Yep.

Idk, you expect him to policy lynch you?

No. First, I doubt he could pull it off.

Second, it would be pretty fucking stupid to PL me for being disrespectful in a game where there's a 2/3 chance I'd be tree stumped and, you know...still get to post. How respectful do you think I'd be in that scenario?

[Persivul]

Wow we worked out a misunderstanding through civil discourse.

This bodes well.

When you couldn't do that...what alignments were each of you?

[Persivul]

What?

I think I might get the point you’re trying to make,

Yeah, it's pretty simple. Suppose you couldn't talk civilly in your last game, and you were both town. Now you're talking civilly - could indicate at least one of you is scum.

So, what alignments? What game(s)?

[Persivul]

To me, nasty 1v1s are usually both towns

Agreed, and if that was the case with these two...what's different now?

[Persivul]

sorry I made a typo
that last line was supposed to say
smart attractive people

You really suck at haiku.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Egix

L-2

[Persivul]

VOTE: Egix

5/5 on my read of you.

OK this is serious now, what's the reason?

[Persivul]

VOTE: slaxx

[Persivul]

VOTE: slaxx

Why?

What you said.

[Persivul]

why is persivul so different this game

No, the question is, why was I so different the last game?

[Persivul]

Can you explain how this is lamest?

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Persivul]

Pers and Milk were both trying to shift blame onto RB and I for the wagon while ignoring the people who just clapped on later.

Where do you get that I was trying to shift blame on you by asking you the reasoning for your read?

[Persivul]

"This is serious"

It was more of a tonal thing, but it read very much as "look what you've started, come explain yourself" than a more casual "hey whats the reason here"

Ftr I don't think its Milk/Pers.

L-1s are serious, dipshit.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Egix

5/5 on my read of you.

Can you explain the read or not?

Instead of being concerned that you're being blamed for a wagon (no clue why you think of it in those terms), you could just explain the read.

[Persivul]

Why do you think a wagon is worthy of blame?

[Persivul]

How about the L-1 wagon on milk which you're first on? That formed very fast, but you don't seem concerned about it.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Bujaber

[Persivul]

You see how easy it is to deflect with semantics?

Yeah it's almost as easy as saying

but it was a reaaaaaction test...

[Persivul]

It was what, page 3? You want to try and tell me that that sort of thing isn't common that early?

Common doesn't make it acceptable to me.

[Persivul]

Shit man if you're gonna take swipes on me just keep your vote there.

If that's to me: to be honest, you're right, I wasn't reading that closely. Now I have, and I think you're probably town. You noted yourself that Bujaber's vote was bad. You ought to move there before someone derphammers milk. Milk's actions have been reasonable.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE: slaxx
This has been very productive

yes it has
UNVOTE:

Why does this make me feel it was scum theater?

Let's see... Scum theater involves people going back and forth. Here, TTTT just added a metoo. So, it's not theater.

So, you say it feels like scum theater because you're scum under pressure and feel like you need to say something.

[Persivul]

See my wording.

"It was" theater not "it is" theater. I'm talking about something that happened in the past. TTTT agreeing is the present

So...when you quote two people, mention no one else, and talk about scum theater...you're talking about someone else.

[Persivul]

LOL - the only votes here are for lynching.

[Persivul]

This is going to be a long game

Not if we lynch Bujaber today.

Where is everyone?

[Persivul]

Bujaber, what do you think of Vedith so far?

[Persivul]

So far bujaber has sucked. Someone said that he's better than this, presumably referring to this town game. I've played with him once before, he sucked, and he was scum. I'm never terriby confident in reads this early in the game, but this one is looking better than usual.

[Persivul]

why do we wanna vote bujaber again

Oh fuck we have a not mafia wannabe or something.

Read the thread. There lie answers to your question.

[Persivul]

Milk and maybe lovebird.. slaxx if milk flips red

I think Persivul is scummy but I want him to be town because it means he didn't catch me last game because of skill or anything that I did wrong but because of his bias against the type of player I am. He just scumreads everything so might as well just flip a coin to see if Persivul is right or wrong about me next time we play.

Actually no towns suck enough on this site. I hope he's scum. But either way I can't sort him because he's wearing "BuJ is scum" limited edition goggles, and like for someone like him he'd want to lynch me regardless of alignment.

Yeah, guess what - I'm generally not good enough to distinguish between scum, and townies with an anti-town playstyle. I'm trying to learn, but it's a fine line. That's why you'll see me arguing in mafia discussion threads that town should take the old school approach and, you know, actually town it up. The fact that people don't do that is why towns suck on this site.

[Persivul]

What if it's just your limited view of what is townie.

Look at my past town games. Look how many times I am called obvtown.

That's just the thing, as I've noted before. I haven't had a chance to meta you, but someone here said to you

you're better than that

. And now you're agreeing - as town, you're usually seen as obvtown, but that's not happening here.

The obvious conclusion is that you're scum who hasn't yet learned to fake it.

Not that that's always the correct play. Town needs to find scum. That's the bottom line. Sometimes they have to do it while covering for PRs. Sometimes the PRs themselves want to wait until they get something useful.

The only PR we have is a very weak protective. Don't blame your play on PR considerations.

But basically between finding scum and looking like town I'll always choose the former, even though I consistently achieve the latter anyway.

Why not do both?

But you know why I don't like you?

Don't know, don't care - but I sense a load of AtE coming.

[Persivul]

Ya, he's playing super weird. Like, he's scummy, but it looks almost intentional. So, I'm not sure what to think.

Consider the setup.

[Persivul]

Despite my feelings towards you I didn't let it affect me and I waited for several days and several pages to see if you have a legitimate reason to suspect me but you're still tunneling blindly over the same person you voted in RVS. Maybe I was wrong to ever mention your name. It has destroyed your ability to play well as either alignment.

So... why don't you have a read on me yet?

[Persivul]

i can't figure out whether i want to lynch persivul or bujaber

Yeah maybe if you interacted with us instead of sitting back and making judgments like NM you'd be able to figure that out.

[Persivul]

I can't figure out whether to move my vote to rb or lovebird. Bujaber will be sortable in time. Those two - probably not.

[Persivul]

Who has played this setup before? This has probably been hashed out in previous games, but FWIW:

- Firefighter is very weak as a protective.
- BUT, as it's an open setup, a claim without a CC makes them conftown, which is powerful.
- Scum presumably prime them N1.
- BUT, if scum want them out of the game early, they have to waste a night on an ignition.

Point being that it might make sense for FF to claim.

[Persivul]

That's why you'll see me arguing in mafia discussion threads that town should take the old school approach and, you know, actually town it up.

Is there an article I can read on step by step play to act as town?

Sure. You can start here:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... cumhunting
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aying_Well

Don't let Scum see it though.

Why not?

The basic concept of the game is that someone who's informed will have difficulty acting as if they're not informed.

[Persivul]

I won't want Scum to know how to look town though.

It's a lot easier for scum to fake what you're doing than to fake all that stuff in those articles.

[Persivul]

If I had to mis lynch a town and a tree I would want it to be Pers because I'd rather him in the game than just killed at night.

Nice, someone finally realizes the implications of the mechanic.

[Persivul]

Nice, someone finally realizes the implications of the mechanic.

"finally"?
it's like you aren't even reading my posts

Which posts specifically?

[Persivul]

milk, the more you post, the more I agree with rb.

[Persivul]

Two reads lists which don't say much at all.

[Persivul]

Two reads lists which don't say much at all.

This was at egix in 249.

[Persivul]

Having trouble with my IP address on my mobile? I don't know when that will be resolved, but I won't be as active because of it. However, I cannot sort the following:
rb
TTTT
Vedith
Love

THe rest are in a sudoku-esque solved tower and my strongest townlean is slaxx rn, but it's a weak townlean. can you guys focus on getting more and better stuff from these guys/gals/robots? vedith's above post is a good example of "more"

So, out of 8 players:
Can't sort 4.
Other 4 are in a solved tower...which is really just 1 weak townlean.

I don't have a problem with that per se at this stage of the game, but why did he bother posting it at all? Seems LAMIST.

[Persivul]

Okay, here's the way I see things. Slaxx is town. I read his iso again and his response to me was very town.
Vedith is leaning town.
TTTT is leaning town rn, but is still mainly null
rb and lovebird are leaning scum for lurking
Pers and buj are... complicated. I want one to flip if we get to the end of the day.

Then, 6 posts later...an update, featuring scum leans on the lurkers.

[Persivul]

Persivul baiting the lynch (I’m assuming since we discussed this publically you won’t get mad) is a towntell to me.

Correct. Towns usually mislynch D1 anyway, and the tree stumping feature really mitigates any damage. Any trees who thought about it should have been pretty fearless today. If lynched, you get to see who was on/off your wagon, and you're still around to push your suspects.

[Persivul]

Not for sure if RB’s thing was a townslip or not.

No. I usually play minis and so I frequently think in terms of 3 scum at first.

[Persivul]

Lovebird is due for a prod.

[Persivul]

Persivul I got mad because...

I. Don't. Care. Why. You're. Mad.

Long defense posts only make me more suspicious of you.

You're only at L-3.
If you're FF you get out of jail free.
If you're tree and you get lynched, you're still here, and you're conftown.

So why are you so defensive?

[Persivul]

You seem afraid to me - more concerned with pressure on yourself than with actually pushing scum reads.

[Persivul]

@buj: You sure don't sound like someone who doesn't care because they'll be a conftown stump. You sound bitter.

[Persivul]

My anaconda don't want none unless you've got wagons hun...

Let's not lynch this until lovebird checks in.

[Persivul]

BABY GOT WAGON!

[Persivul]

EVEN SCUM BOYS GOT TO SHOUT

[Persivul]

Bujaber you should've said:

A lot of stumps won't like this song
'Cause them trees like to lynch it and quit it
And I'd rather stay and play
'Cause I'm long, and I'm strong
And I'm down to get the lynchin on
So, townies (Yeah) townies (Yeah)
If you want to win and be in the scummies (Yeah)
Then change your vote, turn it round
Them scum boys got to go down
Bujy's got town!

Then I would have unvoted you.

[Persivul]

2 players showing their ability to post nonsense

how dare you

IKR...TTTT posted a masterpiece, not nonsense.

[Persivul]

Oh, my, God Becky, look at that wagon
It is so big, she looks like
One of those scum guys' girlfriends.
But, ya know, who understands those scum guys?
They only talk to her, because,
She looks like a total vig, 'kay?
I mean, her wagon, is just so big
I can't believe it's just so town, it's like out there
I mean gross, look
She's just so, scum
I like big wagons and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty claim
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung, want to pull up tough
'Cause you notice that wagon was stuffed
Deep in the claims she's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh baby, I want to get wit'cha
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But with that wagon you got makes (me so horny)
Ooh, Rump-o'-smooth-skin
You say you want to get in my Benz?
Well, use me, use me
'Cause you ain't that average groupie
I've seen her WIFOMIN'
To hell with busin'
She's sweat, wet,
Got it goin' like a turbo 'Vette
I'm tired of the forum
Sayin' counter-wagons are the thing
Take the average maf player and ask him that
She gotta pack much back
So, fellas (yeah) Fellas (yeah)
Has your girlfriend got the wagon? (hell yeah)
Tell 'em to shake it (shake it) shake it (shake it)
Shake that healthy wagon

^^^Not nonsense...art.

[Persivul]

Keep going.

[Persivul]

Buj put up an awful lot of words. In your catchup you quoted two sentences.

[Persivul]

Yeah I think the guy has decent reads, problem is he doesn't obvtown so you can't trust those reads. He'd be a pretty valuable stump.

[Persivul]

No, that would be L-1 and TTTT might lolhammer. I'm not ready for day to end yet.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Milk

Let’s GOoooOOoo

Where was intent? Did he even claim?

[Persivul]

The initial flurry of votes is concerning. This isn't a blitz. Day 1 we lynched a tree who wasn't particularly scummy with plenty of time left on the clock. Can we slow it down a bit? The pace is benefiting scum, not town.

[Persivul]

I feel strongly that at least 1 is not a vocal player

<cough>Lovebird</cough>

[Persivul]

You hammered me with no claim and you self voted d2 with no scum caught. Both of those are strictly anti town.

Anti-town, yes, but scummy? Everyone cries scum when someone hammers like that, but if lynched that person almost always flips town.

[Persivul]

Anti-town, yes, but scummy? Everyone cries scum when someone hammers like that, but if lynched that person almost always flips town.

Actually re-reading the end of that day, that was horrible.

VOTE: slaxx

[Persivul]

Again I want to reiterate two things:
1. Lurkers should be pressured FIRST
2. the scum case on slaxx is not even mostly about the lolhammer. It's about the scummy 1v1, self vote, and wanting to throw the game over a 1v1.

Thinking about it more, the hammer was super bad. This is an open setup in which a FF claim and no CC makes a conftown. If he's tree, he risked costing us that advantage. It's doubtful he's FF himself. The implication of his self vote was that he wasn't concerned about being lynched, because he'd still be here as a stump.

[Persivul]

-posting in other games but not here

Yeah I don't do games where mod is severely late with no explanation.

mod, please replace me