Open 755: Two-Fold C9++ (GAME OVER)

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Skygazer
Good vote Dunn

hi Sky <3

~ quack

[DuckDuckJab]

Why Sky over Dave, Duckling?

Easier read imo

[DuckDuckJab]

Vorkuta, Roster, & Rich are town.

VOTE: Chemist

This is scum because awkward vote on Chenn & ignoring everything above to prolong RVS.

Do you think this is actually A Thing Scum Do or is this pressure?
just asking bc it's more confusing than pressuring

[DuckDuckJab]

Why are those the only two options for me?

Like, we just caught scum and youre asking if its a pressure vote?

mmmmm towny

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Rich

Policy or legit?

[DuckDuckJab]

The transition from RVS into proper D1 is always awkward especially when not everyone (hi skitter) has even checked in, but let's see what I can do.

Chemist's somewhat hostile reaction to the RVS counter votes feel town.
I feel that a few more people might pile up on the wagon, but then it'll naturally diffuse and flow on to the next person.

Jungle's town reads are 1000!% factual and correct.

Then do the smart thing
Jump onto the Chenn wagon!

No.

But keep up the good work Rich

Why does Sky want to 1v1 Dunn? Prior vendetta or something?

Vorky!! Been a while - you town again?
Agree re. Chemist and it's clearly a meme wagon
Do you think Jungle is town for his townreads?

Also Skyg memes a lot, if she says anything particularly wild or confusing it's best to assume she's joking

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Jungle

Skyg 1% town scented
Will read Vorkuta with 110% accuracy in a few more pages

~ all tw

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: duckduckjab

Because everyone knows it’s supposed to be duck duck goose, silly!

Makes me sad that you missed the brilliance and triple play on words nature of our name.

@Jungle - is this your first time playing multiball?

I'm not sure I like dave's snark in the SK conversation(s). I think you know that if someone scumreads your post to roster it wouldn't have anything to do with setup and more to do with how you respond to a joke. Unless I completely misjudged 3 people and a bunch of posts.

I agree with the scumreads on BOTH vorkuta and Jungle despite my partner's disagreement wrt vork.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

can more people vote dave, ty

jungle why are you voting the hydra

@buj why are you scumreading jungle and vorkuta, i don't see either of those

I take back the read on jungle now that I know they didn't read.
Practical lesson here on why you need to read, otherwise you get scumread for townreading people really easily in a multiball.

Vorkuta because they seem overly defensive. They want to progress this game they don't need all the fluff explaining that they're doing that and that they don't care if they get wagoned, you know?. I don't have anything extra to say that sky didn't already.

[DuckDuckJab]

Someone being "strong town" is bad reason to keep them around when they're scum, by the way.

Lolwut

[DuckDuckJab]

And yeah this is the hydra that is scum's worst nightmare, while being the only account where tw loses as scum

[DuckDuckJab]

Practical lesson here on why you need to read, otherwise you get scumread for townreading people really easily in a multiball.

Town are more likely to give lots of townreads in multiball... which is kinda funny because I inadvertently town telled while intentionally trying not to do that yet. Go figure.

You're skirting around the point I'm making but going to the wrong conclusion.

Multiball makes it much harder to catch scum, because they are in part, hunting for the other scumteam, and they don't know for sure who is town, which means their reads are not all fake.

That means quick townreads will often be more wrong than they would be in singleball.

Which means your reads were just noise to make it look like you're doing something, or they're misguided and overly trusting at best.

Now that you practically town told by not knowing it's multiball, I know it's the latter.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Okay Mr. TotallyNotScum.
What is your reason for jungle being town?

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

They can't explain they got told off.

[DuckDuckJab]

They can't explain they got told off.

hey since you now think jungle towntold do u want to vote dave with me?

Fine but not for you, to show my partner I trust him.

VOTE: Dave

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Love it when people imply that RVS is this vacuum nobody can gauge alignment in.

[DuckDuckJab]

Yeh, DuckDuckJab can go

U wot m8

[DuckDuckJab]

also upon further introspection i think i retract the townread i kinda gave bujaber

I gave up my preferred wagon for you.

No more

VOTE: vorkuta

[DuckDuckJab]

which of u wrote these?

BuJ

I don't think you have explained the scum motivation in my posts.

Skitter's case is a little different, so I'll answer also. Also because I'm getting the feeling she's only doing it to fake a read change on you like she would become convinced by your arguments.

For me your meta is irrelevant. I'm not scumreading the mechanics talk for being mechanical. I'm scumreading the post saying there are no SKs and the post defending it because it doesn't feel real.
1. Roster was clearly joking. You attacking him for mentioning SK is a gross overreaction and seems overly defensive.
2. You didn't like that people disliked the post, which again makes you seem easily spooked. They should have scrutinized you for that post. It's not something a townie would usually post despite what you seem to think.
3. Overall I don't think you meant any of that. I think you wanted to push attention elsewhere and it backfired.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Also because I'm getting the feeling she's only doing it to fake a read change on you like she would become convinced by your arguments.

This would make her scum who

thinks

you're town. I don't think your interactions indicate same side scum.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

I absolutely meant it, just like I mean every post I write.

Okay, let's assume I'm right and roster was joking, he actually did read the setup and knows there can't be an SK in the game.

If you knew that would you have commented, and if yes what would your comment be?

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Also because I'm getting the feeling she's only doing it to fake a read change on you like she would become convinced by your arguments.

This would make her scum who

thinks

you're town. I don't think your interactions indicate same side scum.

-BuJ

oh this is spicy
i'm *extremely* interested in hearing more about this

how is tw reading me?

Oh we disagree heavily right now. It's why I'm not interested in pushing you at this time. Just exercising caution.

But we also haven't sat down to really talk talk.

So forgive me for not going into detail for now. I want to see what conclusions we arrive at after we've discussed in detail.

It's typical for us to disagree, particularly in the beginning. It's why this hydra works. We have a unique view on things.

Random advice to people: if you want to hydra with someone don't do it with people who think along the same lines. The advantage comes from having different perspectives.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Hmm Persivul is towny in a weirdly funny way this page

gonna go catch up, then jam with BuJaber, then we're back to kick some scum butt. happy to give some unfiltered takes while I'm catching up if people want

~ tw

[DuckDuckJab]

OK! I'm on page 10. skitter is town, Creature is probably town and I personally think you're town for your recent posts (the rest of your ISO looks roughly neutral from a quick glance)

Skygazer and Rich are likely town as well.

Jungle had some pretty +town perspective posts around pg. 7 so I'm gonna catch up and see if I still feel warm and fuzzy about them. I think their real times with skitter are town indicative for both of them.

whole lot of slots I'm not totally sure how to read yet (Beazu, Dave, fusco, penguin) and I'm kinda regretting saying I'd have a 100% accurate read on Vorkuta because I really don't lol. his tone presents as more assertive but his content feels more restrained than last time we played together. I need to grab him in real times at some point if I can because if this goes down anything like last time I'll correct my read that way if he's town

[DuckDuckJab]

I divine her alignment in my tea leaves

There's several little things I've been spamming at Buj and I can towncase her if needed but I'd rather not -- are you scumreading her based on the Prey Mafia misrep or other content?

[DuckDuckJab]

I must admit I'm quite remiss in caring for this game
At least I'm not on his naughty list - but I don't get the reads on Dave

OOF I'm quoting this for big mood. the dave and vork reads have me baffled

[DuckDuckJab]

oh god tw hasn't posted in a while

maybe duck is scum

I've fixed myself sky I'm only a mildly awful hydra partner these days

[DuckDuckJab]

Vorkuta do you think I should be townreading you with our experience? Could you point me towards a post/some posts of yours which you think might help me see your towniness?

I'm probably gonna crash pretty soon btw but I'll be back soon and I will not flake or be useless >:

[DuckDuckJab]

Skitter's far outside her scum meta.

I'm 100% confident on this read.

^ biggest mood

my only concern around her catching up is that you could be pocketing her which is annoying because in a vacuum I townread you

~ tw

[DuckDuckJab]

Vorkuta do you think I should be townreading you with our experience? Could you point me towards a post/some posts of yours which you think might help me see your towniness?

Aside from the obvious "yes you should TR me"..., this is a confusing question. I could ask you the same thing as well.

Like- my playstyle's changed/toned down a bit in some places- as you can see I am no longer sorting by activity count and relentlessly tunneling anyone who dares lurk.
I'd like to think all of my posts with multiquotes where I defend myself from scum accusations (from Persy and Sky) demonstrate exactly the same sort of defense and reasoning I did in our newbie game together. Similarly- I'm getting my hands a bit dirty, but in a day or two I'll come out clean and in position to build my core!town block (even though I was told it would be different in MultiBall).

@Persivul- Duck can confirm that town!vork throws shade left and right without following it up with a vote.

Can confirm Vork is shade queen. He often has that "I am the only town and you all must die" energy

Which kinda brings me back to this game - your posts feel less weighty than they did last time and your tone is certainly more forward/assertive if that makes sense. Do you attribute to your change in playstyle? Mind if I ask what inspired the change?

~ tw

[DuckDuckJab]

That's a bad concern, Duck.

I disagree, Lime. Balance of all things I still think you're town but I have stronger townreads.

How would you feel if I just townresd you at face value and nobody ever raised a concern about the possibility of you/skitter being non-aligned?

[DuckDuckJab]

I will sort slots which others are heavily townreading and I have concerns about. I'd feel better if you didn't shame me for loltownblocking the same slots that you are loltownblocking.

I have a process. I'm going through it with Vork. I'm through it with skitter. I'm not there yet with you.

[DuckDuckJab]

If you want to show me where you've broken your scumrange and subvert any of the paranoia that's lingering in my mind about your slot I'd actually super appreciate that but if you're just gonna shame my scumhunting style you need to get off me.

[DuckDuckJab]

*extends hand for fistbump*

[DuckDuckJab]

tw would we still be friends if i voted for u

no because I suspect we're both town, I would be very mad.

[DuckDuckJab]

Spoiler:

Strike through means you don't mean what was struck through. Your previous post is somewhat suspicious due to the connotation of what was struck. If you're scum, it wouldn't be the first time that I've seen self-deprecating humor reveal scum underneath. And if town then badly placed strike might cause misinterpretation of the actual meaning.

Hmm, wonder if that was someone else I noticed.
Definitely saw something.
Are there two players using strike heavily?
<returns to research>

I find it very agenda driven of you to tunnel me so hard when
-other people are guilty of doing the same things you accuse me of
-it seems that you actually might be scum looking to get early points by attacking the lowest hanging fruit

Scum don't get points for pushing mislynches. Unless you're suggesting that we're each scum but on different teams...

p-edit: the strikeouts are annoying in general.
p-edit: yes, I believe the strikeout is spreading to others as well, would like to nip it in the bud.

Oh, it was you, in a different region of the post than I remembered it being in. Was looking near the end of posts not right in the middle...
You explained it just now.

Pedit:
I use strike myself but

very

sparingly and in contexts where it's easy to interpret.

This felt like Awks scum interactions.

awks sure, can you show me what you think is scum in there?

[DuckDuckJab]

I will sort slots which others are heavily townreading and I have concerns about. I'd feel better if you didn't shame me for loltownblocking the same slots that you are loltownblocking.

I have a process. I'm going through it with Vork. I'm through it with skitter. I'm not there yet with you.

If you want to show me where you've broken your scumrange and subvert any of the paranoia that's lingering in my mind about your slot I'd actually super appreciate that but if you're just gonna shame my scumhunting style you need to get off me.

JM, I am very much after your response to this.

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Jungle
I hope Buj isn't mad at me for this

[DuckDuckJab]

the way he overreacted to your Prey Mafia comment on the basis that he believed his strategic approach to this game was pretty funny and I absolutely believe that's a reaction Persi has

I divine her alignment in my tea leaves

There's several little things I've been spamming at Buj and I can towncase her if needed but I'd rather not -- are you scumreading her based on the Prey Mafia misrep or other content?

i didn't misrep him; he feels similar to prey mafia
why's buj scumreading me?

I was using language to try and draw a response from someone he related to (he felt misrepped and I wanted to hear more). I don't think you were misrepresentative personally.

Buj is concerned you're taking pocketing/WKish approach to slots which you view as towny - I kinda get what he sees but I don't think it's scum indicative for you and I think your towntells here outweigh that by far.

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm glad to hear that because having seen dave play before I think the scumreads on him are genuinely half baked

[DuckDuckJab]

I *slightly* townread him ftr but not a strong read. Take it this way: I find it really weird people have strong reads on him at all and I think they're attributing too much to tonal nonsense.

[DuckDuckJab]

I have never seen Dave take a tonally sound approach to anything in my entire life. It takes a bit of focusing on getting behind his eyes to see what he's getting at but it's rewarding.

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't think you are either, it might be more productive to talk to Buj about what he sees because I think you're firmly within your townrange here.

Fwiw I completely saw your angle with comparing Persi (I'm not sure it's AI but it was a very provocative point so I was in favour of you taking that line of enquiry), I just thought the fact he ridiculously assumed you were talking about his strategic approach and his subsequent GOTTEM omgusy vote was a towny funny reaction

[DuckDuckJab]

yes, absolutely. I haven't stalked his scumgames in a while but he's frozen at a logical level which I recall standing out really heavily. here his fluidity of posts feels towny fmpov.

I'm actually townreading him more the more I'm talking about this

[DuckDuckJab]

I just thought the fact he ridiculously assumed you were talking about his strategic approach and his subsequent GOTTEM omgusy vote was a towny funny reaction

idk i don't really see it tbh

that's fair, you're likely biased against seeing it (I rarely townread people voting me for nonsensical reasons either) and it's not like a particularly strong read I just think its slightly >rand town

[DuckDuckJab]

Eh, it might pass.

Part of my chronic problem is that certain people get townreads automatically and I’m not one of them.
I’m literally clueless about why. But asking about it seems to result in more scumreads.
It’s like my own personal windmill to joust.

I've seen dave talk about this a couple of times in previous games fwiw; this rings true at an holistic level. Either he's picked me as someone very specific to position/pocket via AtE and then planned and carefully written some good analytical posts which are within his town range OR he's just playing in his usual towny groove OR I'm over thinking this

[DuckDuckJab]

@tw do you think i should be townreading u rn?

off the top of my head I think this convo is > anything we had in starcraft and I feel exposed in a way that's closer to mystery box of silver but I do think it's too early for you to feel like, confident on my alignment

If I can ask you to suspend disbelief long enough for us to murder some scums I'd appreciate that because I do enjoy solving with you a lot; but if you have concerns let's go through them

[DuckDuckJab]

I hope you're town, Skitter.

I'm adding Skitter & Fusco to my list of townies.

jungle why are you voting the hydra

I think removing them from the game will further our win condition.

Faith, Skitter. The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I'll talk with you soon, Skitter. I know you're town & that's going to make this game a lot easier for both of us.

By the way Skitter, something to remember about the current gamestate: You know something about me that others don't.

Hey Skitter, are you still sure you want to lynch Dave?

VOTE: persivul

@jm why are you sheeping me

I trust you.

You're welcome to sheep me and through me Skitter, Sky.

I'd feel better if you didn't spread paranoia about slots that are obviously town, specifically myself, Skitter, and Vorkuta.

Skitter's here, yay!

@skitter inclusive language way too early on, overfocusing on your actions, sheeping you isn't AI but I think the reactive vote was buddying in a way which I can't read but feels inauthentic and I think the way he called for sky to vicariously sheep you through him is a bit creepy

it's a gut feeling but it's a pretty strong gut feeling rn. I really don't like JM here. Still need Buj's input here because I suspect he might punch me for this.

[DuckDuckJab]

ftr hard pocketing and pretending to solve the game with people is literally the card in my sleeve when I'm wolfing so I might be projecting what I saw in myself in e.g. Starcraft onto other players

if you think I'm unduly uncomfortable or being ott I'll take that. same if Buj thinks so.

[DuckDuckJab]

Neither did I until her reaction to my read on he

[DuckDuckJab]

That's a bad concern, Duck.

I'd feel better if you didn't spread paranoia about slots that are obviously town, specifically myself, Skitter, and Vorkuta.

Oh, I forgot to mention that Sky's town too.

I'm sorry you always get stuck with scum slots?

Skitter's here, yay!

Issue with Jungle intensifies here - this isn't someone who's trying to engage with and sort me. This is someone who doesn't identify me as a threat and considers me a lower position in the gamestate than they are and I intend to wreck that perspective until JM is begging me to townread them

But legit this is the point where I drop AI information. What is the town motivation in cold shouldering me and focusing instead on dishing out half cooked townreads when you could be sorting a slot you have null-to-scum? This just doesn't present as a sorting mindset.

[DuckDuckJab]

@tw do you think i should be townreading u rn?

off the top of my head I think this convo is > anything we had in starcraft and I feel exposed in a way that's closer to mystery box of silver but I do think it's too early for you to feel like, confident on my alignment

If I can ask you to suspend disbelief long enough for us to murder some scums I'd appreciate that because I do enjoy solving with you a lot; but if you have concerns let's go through them

idk if i have like .... 'concerns' that i can articulate so much as you're kinda scumpinging me
also i feel like buj is probably easier to read than you but i don't feel like he's done much ai which is making me kinda ??? about you guys as a whole

i feel like we did have convos like this in starcraft; i don't think you're out of the range you exhibited there
i don't have thoughts on how you compare to mbos

i'm kinda fine dropping this till later but i guess i'm a little paranoid that if you're some flavor of scum you'll be murderizing me and there won't *be* a later

also i enjoy solving with you too

Iirc I heavily townpinged you in starcraft and scumpinged you in mbos (Mastina was the nail in my coffin for sure) - I wanted a connection in mbos but couldn't get there because you were scumreading me vs. was using our realtimes to cash in towncred and advance my pockets in Starcraft

I see a firmer correlation between this and mbos than starcraft + I'm extremely exhausted scum rn (though my holistic scumrange is wider so I don't expect this will carry me far) but I get I'm also biased regardless of my alignment by {being in my own brain, being scum}

[DuckDuckJab]

I think jm's posting is getting progressively wolfier as her towncred increases yes

(sorry for messy pronouns; sometimes I'm matching JM's profile use of he/his, other times skitter's use of she/her, I am not sure what JM prefers)

[DuckDuckJab]

i'm kinda fine dropping this till later but i guess i'm a little paranoid that if you're some flavor of scum you'll be murderizing me and there won't *be* a later

also i enjoy solving with you too

this is such an interesting dilemma yeah. I don't think Buj is actually easy to read d1 in the same way I think a lot of people read me wrong d1. I've probably proven I don't necessarily need to n1 you as a wolf the way I used to think I would but at the same time this convo is a dead end.... this way lies madness/wifom

[DuckDuckJab]

Do you think they've heavily towntold in a way that is outside their scumrange/you're unlikely to be wrong on? & do you think it's town motivated that they flatly ignored my request for them to show us why they're obvtown?

[DuckDuckJab]

For sure, I wouldn't expect you to have a firm read on our slot yet. There's like one person onsite or maybe two who I think can read me well early atm

[DuckDuckJab]

hmm if I was scum I don't think I'd take this opportunity to engage with you so heavily about meta actually. it would be more in my favour to post more + secure a better position in the gamestate while you null/maybescum read our slot and then go for a pocket when my town status is a bit better supported

allowing for how low my scum WIM is atm I'm also not sure I'd be able to pull this off

it would be pretty easy for me to avoid real times via insisting I want to be sure on your alignment before going down the rabbit hole though

I actually might be townreading myself here in a roundabout way but not a way I expect others to townread me for

[DuckDuckJab]

I actually rolled scum b2b since returning (BOP mafia 2 & s1e15 shore leave mafia) and TBH my excitement at being able to town again is radiating but tragically I don't think anyone will take that at face value

[DuckDuckJab]

all tw at the moment
sorry, I'm low key anti signing but I said I'd be nonymous for Buj's benefit

[DuckDuckJab]

it would be pretty easy for me to avoid real times

via insisting I want to be sure on your alignment before going down the rabbit hole though

ngl if scum!you had tried to go down this route i would have death-tunneled you because i think town!you should be townreading me here like always

do u happen to remember the main reason you nk'd me in starcraft?

yeah thought you were a cop with a false clear on Performer

[DuckDuckJab]

If I was reading this page with no context at all I'd hard townread Persi and have you at null/scummy fwiw

[DuckDuckJab]

(I'll gently slide back and let you guys resume talking now)

[DuckDuckJab]

if you have some spare time, would you be down to skim my scum ISOs this year? I've been playing ok and getting wins but it's mostly been town losses. I think my enthusiasm at being town is kind of spilling over here but I'm not sure if it's something that carries over well in a forum format

[DuckDuckJab]

I'll drop the links here and here, lmk if you want to talk about anything when you're back.

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't think town Duck would scumread me.

why not?

[DuckDuckJab]

skitterrrrr is it just me or did ducks interactions w me feel kinda force??

which interactions felt forced? that's the most flowy my thoughts have felt in a mafia game since I returned

[DuckDuckJab]

Because you just played with town me.

I think I've been pretty open about explaining why I'm concerned about you this game, what don't you believe?

Quick side note I didn't need to sort you last time so I wasn't looking for towntells etc., actually I was very checked out d2 before your lynch so I don't have a very strong nose for your towngame at all

[DuckDuckJab]

suspicious smilies

pls don't shitpost on this I actually don't feel good about that read

[DuckDuckJab]

You're scumreading me for the same thing that someone scumread me in that game for...

I legitimately don't know why you were mislynched that game my dude can you point me to who cased you and what to look for? if it's just a playstyle thing and I'm utterly on the wrong track it's something I need to know about but in isolation I don't find it towny.

Sky's town, Duck. If you push that, I will push your lynch.

I also townresd Sky. Doesn't mean her stance on me is good or that I have to like it

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm not 100% sure either tbh but I don't townresd you as strongly as you think I should and I'm waiting for you to point me in the right direction if I'm wrong

[DuckDuckJab]

tw its just like hard to tell if ur trying to pocket me or not and like i cant put my finger on it but like its reminding me of scum u from 6 months ago but loke obv ur metas changed idk

yeah sober up you'd be a terrible pocket choice in this gamestate and I have no idea what's got you thinking I'm trying to pocket you

I'm sorry that my playstyle reminds you of me

[DuckDuckJab]

If you townread Skitter, I suggest sheeping her on me.

I've given up on holistic solves

You keep teasing with me with ways in which I should realise I'm wrong....please please please help me out here?

[DuckDuckJab]

duck ily

grumblegrumble ily too grumble

[DuckDuckJab]

yes so challenge me don't defy me for the sake of it

"I think jungle is scum"
"hey bro you're overlooking xyz"
gives more information on both of us

"I think jungle is scum"
"wow lol sheep skitter on me instead"
obfuscates both of our alignments and pushes the onus on reading correctly onto one slot

I don't understand why I should be townreading you or considering your approach to this conversation towny or whether I should even be blindly sheeping skitter on you at all. I can't verify her ability to read you nor her tells on you and I'm not in a place in my mafia career where I'm comfortable with an holistic solve/outsourcing a read entirely

sorry but I'm not satisfied with the way you're challenging me

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't have a read on Penguin and I'm worried that he's so quiet.

Chemist is kinda scumposting imo but I'm better at townreading than scumreading so I want Buj's input before I go too hard there. Chenn I'm pretty null on as well.

Do you have an exciting read on any of them?

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't always vote my top scumread!

[DuckDuckJab]

JM, jsyk at a personal level it disgusts me that you treat me with such disrespect as a player. Not a slot. You are blatantly disinterested in playing with me.

If this persists I'll probably raise with you privately post-game, if you don't mind. I'm not sure if it's something you're experimenting with on this alt but it doesn't gel with my style at all.

(all tw by the way)

[DuckDuckJab]

Sorry to be harsh. If you're town I want you to realise that I'm finding it hard to parse whether I'm uncomfortable with you at a personal level or because you're a wolf.

[DuckDuckJab]

Either way the way you're conducting yourself is manipulative and inappropriate even in a social deception game. I've made myself promise not to take this shit so please accept this for what it is.

[DuckDuckJab]

bujaber have i played with scum you

I think only in Stack the Deck but you replaced early.

Funnily enough tw replaced you for a while.

-BuJ obviously

[DuckDuckJab]

You guys got our mislynched.....u_u

~ tw

[DuckDuckJab]

I treated you with disrespect? Can you direct me to the posts that make you say that?

No because you do not respond to a single thing I ask you to elaborate on or justify. I literally can't quote any of your posts shitting on my playstyle because you're shitting on me via omission.

I'm voting you because I'm either turned off because youre scum or because you're treating me like I'm not worth talking to you or both. you're not helping me parse this.

[DuckDuckJab]

JM, jsyk at a personal level it disgusts me that you treat me with such disrespect as a player. Not a slot. You are blatantly disinterested in playing with me.

If this persists I'll probably raise with you privately post-game, if you don't mind. I'm not sure if it's something you're experimenting with on this alt but it doesn't gel with my style at all.

(all tw by the way)

I'm having difficulty believing this is genuine.

100% genuine. It's bordering on OGI but my blacklist is entirely people who've treated me the way you're treating me at the moment. If you can't pull your head out of your lime and engage with me I can't see why I should bother trying to play with you.

[DuckDuckJab]

Yikes. I'm genuinely incredibly surprised.

UNVOTE: give me a sec.

[DuckDuckJab]

Incoming with a bit more justification which I think you also deserve. I apologise for being so candid but I did need you to see how serious I was being because I haven't felt like I've been met half way

you'll get a decent wall post as soon as I can finish writing it

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't think town Duck would scumread me.

why not?

^^ very valid for your main especially when I have a basis for a tone/mindset read but not for any average player - the fact we've had experience and chats about mafia to inform the way we play with each other now is super super important.

if you remember back to Labyrinth if I feel unengaged I get annoyed and tend to habitually scumread slots (I think I've gotten better at being engaging since then, and less rude generally, though)

Because you just played with town me.

I think I've been pretty open about explaining why I'm concerned about you this game, what don't you believe?

Quick side note I didn't need to sort you last time so I wasn't looking for towntells etc., actually I was very checked out d2 before your lynch so I don't have a very strong nose for your towngame at all

This is legit and I believe I had previously asked you why you believed I should townread you (not just "meta" or because past experiences--as an alt you have unknown range and I don't have a good understanding of your playstyle or scope. This was something I really wanted some engagement on because it's my read on you doesn't meet your expectation of where my read on you should be.

Sky's town, Duck. If you push that, I will push your lynch.

I was actually waiting for reasons I should be townreading you and this along with the post above felt like a distraction.

You're scumreading me for the same thing that someone scumread me in that game for...

I legitimately don't know why you were mislynched that game my dude can you point me to who cased you and what to look for? if it's just a playstyle thing and I'm utterly on the wrong track it's something I need to know about but in isolation I don't find it towny.

Sky's town, Duck. If you push that, I will push your lynch.

I also townresd Sky. Doesn't mean her stance on me is good or that I have to like it

Tried to wrap up the sky angle which I don't think was a valuable conversation + explain again that I haven't been finding you towny. I also asked if there was something in S1E15 that I overlooked and should reread for you to point me in the right direction because I checked out of the phase you were mislynched in pretty hard and I don't really have a good sense of what happened there.

I can't tell if you town or scumread me, Duck.

I'm not 100% sure either tbh but I don't townresd you as strongly as you think I should and I'm waiting for you to point me in the right direction if I'm wrong

Asked again for you to point me in the right direction wrt. why I should be townreading you/what I'm missing from S1E15

If you townread Skitter, I suggest sheeping her on me.

Skipping my request for why I should townread you by asking me to sheep skitter on you

If you townread Skitter, I suggest sheeping her on me.

I've given up on holistic solves

You keep teasing with me with ways in which I should realise I'm wrong....please please please help me out here?

Just confirming I was not going to blindly sheep skitter on you and I do want you to follow through on why I should be townreading you / where I went wrong wrt. not picking up a towntell you've exhibited from S1E15 etc. because that info is gonna help me sort you by both tells, and also the way you've handled this conversation

I have to keep you challenged Duck. You must understand this.

yes so challenge me don't defy me for the sake of it

"I think jungle is scum"
"hey bro you're overlooking xyz"
gives more information on both of us

"I think jungle is scum"
"wow lol sheep skitter on me instead"
obfuscates both of our alignments and pushes the onus on reading correctly onto one slot

I don't understand why I should be townreading you or considering your approach to this conversation towny or whether I should even be blindly sheeping skitter on you at all. I can't verify her ability to read you nor her tells on you and I'm not in a place in my mafia career where I'm comfortable with an holistic solve/outsourcing a read entirely

sorry but I'm not satisfied with the way you're challenging me

face value - I feel challenged in a way that's designed to position me, not in a way that makes me able to produce alignment indicative content nor get a firm read on you.

What's your read on Penguin, Chenn, and Chemist, Duck?

avoided the convo of why I should be townreading you by asking for reads on incredibly unstimulating slots without offering any thought process of your own

I don't have a read on Penguin and I'm worried that he's so quiet.

Chemist is kinda scumposting imo but I'm better at townreading than scumreading so I want Buj's input before I go too hard there. Chenn I'm pretty null on as well.

Do you have an exciting read on any of them?

Asked for your ops in case that could give me a read on you given our trainwreck of a conversation when I asked for the towntells you spoke about

Why are you voting me, Duck? I don't understand how I'm your top scumread.

And ignored again

[DuckDuckJab]

I hate walls I'm just super grateful this is a legitimate misunderstanding and not something malicious because I've been legit fuming over how badly our conversation was going.

[DuckDuckJab]

I actually think you should be townreading me tbh. The scumtells I was seeing from you are more likely to be playstyle indicative of nai which makes a lot of sense to me because I wasn't feeling great about reading you one way or the other.

help me out though: I now get why you get mislynched for the same reasons you see me scumreading you. Should I be townreading you here post-Starcraft?

[DuckDuckJab]

face value - I feel challenged in a way that's designed to position me, not in a way that makes me able to produce alignment indicative content nor get a firm read on you.

this is the part that felt directly manipulated. claiming town (and especially claiming that fairly individualistic town players should be townreading you) and then refusing to follow through on why you believe they should obfuscates your intentions in demanding to be townread. It will result in mislynches because obfuscating why you want to be townread is an agenda driven practice which is {scum, anti-town} and impossible to read through

I suspect it might be a feature of your alt because I've previously found you engaging on when I should be reading you correctly.

Thinking through our history I think I've slipped town perspective through this line of enquiry fwiw


I will sincerely apologise for my choice of words. I don't think you're manipulative as a person at all, and didn't recall any stand-out manipulative plays in Shore Leave. I might need to reread d2 because what I remember of you/Rainbow felt a lot more ridiculous and abstract than what we're going through atm.

[DuckDuckJab]

I actually think you should be townreading me tbh. The scumtells I was seeing from you are more likely to be playstyle indicative of nai which makes a lot of sense to me because I wasn't feeling great about reading you one way or the other.

help me out though: I now get why you get mislynched for the same reasons you see me scumreading you. Should I be townreading you here post-Starcraft?

I'm not sure what scum tells you were seeing in me because I don't think there were any? I still believe that ignoring questions comes from town more often than scum, & you should know this considering you do the same thing yourself. What's the other issue or tell you're referring to?

I don't understand that second paragraph. You now understand why I get mislynched? What's causing the mislynches & where have I been mislynched for them?

Yes, you should townread me post-Starcraft. I'm far outside my scum range in terms of alienating players to test reactions.

Not responding to questions in a productive or intuitive way is towny imo. Like if you're busy talking about something else or don't believe it's an appropriate time to answer a question that's legit. I was actually under the impression you were pivoting away from my questions to obfuscate my ability to read you and position me as treating the "townblock" maliciously (which is unfair positioning; I was taking as much time as I needed to have my own reads).

The mislynches specifically relate to Shore Leave, and my read on you here. The point about alienating players is good and is a strong contrary point to what I'm floating - up until this part of the convo I was of the opinion I was the only one you were alienating, and I did not have much 'clout'.

[DuckDuckJab]

<3 I'll definitely keep calling you Lime. This all makes a lot more sense, and I'm sorry our expectations of each other clashed in an awkward way there.

I'm really really glad that this was a misunderstanding. The rock I had in my gut for a bit there felt pretty bad.

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Penguin

Now that I've been townread, time to vote the other player here who's pretty good at reading me

[DuckDuckJab]

I was just ranting at Buj about dave and persi. I am very confidently townreading dave, just not 100% sure whether I've talked myself into it or he's just genuinely been super towny.

I do think Persi's reaction to the perceived mierep was pretty towny but other than that I don't have a strong sense. Now that I'm thinking about it I did like Beazu's sudden townread on Persi TBH but I dunno how to read her yet

[DuckDuckJab]

sorry you hit the tier of townreads I don't feel strongly abt and wanna ask Buj for thoughts on as well so I'm a bit flipfloppier here

[DuckDuckJab]

{ddj}
{skitter, skygazer, dave, jm, Vorkuta}
{persi, rich, creature}
{dunnstral}
{Beazu, rosterfoster, chennisden, PP} = null/no feelings rn
{chemist, fuscosco}

about here fwiw Beazu may be trending upwards but I haven't thought about it enough yet

[DuckDuckJab]

hmm sell me on Chenn? I'm comfortable not lynching Beazu, her approach has been very good faithy

[DuckDuckJab]

hmm

I'll set him out of my sights for now but I don't have enough to make me feel like he's town. (I'm also wary I'm biased by playstyle so yeah)

[DuckDuckJab]

top tier is mech clears, I'd ride or die with my second tier any day of the week

[DuckDuckJab]

Sky is absolutely town, she realises regardless of my alignment I'm a good pocket at the time she chose to antagonise me. That's not a scum mindset.

I spoke about Dave with skitter -- feeling good about that read. Creature had a surprisingly sound tone when he was posting which I think is ++town but he's slipping due to inactivity and the fact I have better reads.

Persi I also talked about

let me know if I should expand, stuck shopping and mobileposting so minimalism is preferred

[DuckDuckJab]

Oh I really didn't expect that to work.
Hi again to Baezu, Creature, Duck, Fus, and Dunn.

Looking forward to playing with the rest of you!

VOTE: Dave for being petty

Town

Vorkuta's town by the way.

Well, that was pretty obvious.

but you get a townread too

Roster's town as well!

Why?

This is the SK

It's an open setup, perhaps a little complicated but easy to tell what roles are absent.

yeh, can see dave being scum

Goddamn bags are heavy
These are og town creature posts

He's not in the tier I know I'm right about so I get where you're coming from

[DuckDuckJab]

posts/reads

[DuckDuckJab]

Jungle Medicine is waaaaay too easy with the townreads.

Have a townread

Need to check if funniness is AI for creature but I liked the fluidity/tone here and in his jokes below

This is just the intro
Far from the main set
We’ll browse the weather app together!

(Yes, we can do a rain check).

Is this a bacde alt?

Gotta give you hell for this
How the heck’s this relevant
You all seem freaking hellabent
On all except the elephant
I smell a scent
Of distraction
Talk about my Chenn wagon
Or I might have to yell a bit

Okay, this opera is getting uninteresting

og town creature post even if it's fluffing +tone points

Why are those the only two options for me?

Like, we just caught scum and youre asking if its a pressure vote?

mmmmm towny

Why?

fusco's posts weren't towny and this was a good catch

Oh god it's the creature catchup posts please make them no longer than 1 page.

Gonna make it longer than 1 page just for you sweetheart

+humour

Do you want to be spoonfed a list of all potential scum PRs as well?

Woah, where you got that aggressive?

not sure scum!Creature is provocative

or, at least, in a game that isn't multiball i'd call his posting town-indicative for him but idk how well he can mimic that in multiball

I played multiball as scum recently and I didn't really want to kill the other scumteam. I'd be more aiming to lynch town rn.

hmm this is less interesting than I remembered it being :/

How is the mod a 'fucken furry'?

is it [adjective, noun] or [verb, noun]?

I expected better from you (atleast in terms of shitposting).

+humour

Yeh, DuckDuckJab can go

+provocative



not a strong read and I might have some homework to do but his posting style is uncharacteristically nuanced in a way he doesn't tend to present as scum at all

if he's scum here I would be very slightly impressed but only very slightly, he's a little >rand town

probably too high in my list ig

[DuckDuckJab]

89 + 101 are solvey though

he can post as scum now but his range isn't as broad as I used to worry it was, I *think* I'm getting better at reading him again

[DuckDuckJab]

It's the equivalent of her saying "yo tw I'm shoshin" so I'm not particularly phased by the OGI tbh, are you?

one could argue meta itself is ogi so whatever idk

[DuckDuckJab]

or, at least, in a game that isn't multiball i'd call his posting town-indicative for him but idk how well he can mimic that in multiball

I played multiball as scum recently and I didn't really want to kill the other scumteam. I'd be more aiming to lynch town rn.

Worked out why I liked this

The way he's talking here implies a self opinion of being able to parse opposing scumteam vs. town and split which mislynchable people are town as opposed to an opposing scumteam - I think this comes less often from someone who's trying to hide that they themselves are scum.

bring it up as a strategy isn't necessarily town indicative but I think Creature's confidence is a slightly non-scum tell

pedit: yeah, fair.

[DuckDuckJab]

If persivul ever dies and flips town I will tunnel JM like I've never tunnelled anybody in my life. Townslip be damned in that case.

100% sure persivul is being set-up for a mislynch at some point during the game.

There is a very devious, deliberate, narrative-shaping approach being followed here. A systematic method of townreading those that agree, shading or scumreading those that don't, alienating outsiders, and misrepresenting persivul.

Can't read the player? Read the damn game. Spidey senses are tingling like crazy.

Granted I can't say for a fact that JM is the scum among those creating this atmosphere, but that's who's doing the things I mentioned most obviously.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Could I convince you to join me on Mr. Penguin?

~ tw

[DuckDuckJab]

He's normally pretty obvtown when he's town. I want to spook him and prove I'm the best bird.

[DuckDuckJab]

locktown? sick i can burn some towncred w a naked vote

VOTE: persi

tw looks a lot better to me today esp w the jungle interactions

am willing to sheep skitter/jungle here and am not liking persi's recent posts

ilu lmfao

- the head that posts like this

[DuckDuckJab]

I propose we drop the Jungle & Percy votes for now, as we have MORE than enough content to analyze in the later stages of the game, and put our votes on people at the lower half of the activity list.

VOTE: Chemist (4)

It has potential to go somewhere, it has potential to just turn into an ego fight out of which people come out with their egos bruised and nothing more.
All this untapped potential is great BUT

Let's actually scumhunt and make sure others dont get a free pass for not existing.

I propose we drop the Jungle & Percy votes for now, as we have MORE than enough content to analyze in the later stages of the game, and put our votes on people at the lower half of the activity list.

VOTE: Chemist (4)

I've been thinking this for some time now, but knew it would be pounced on if I were the first to suggest it. Need to do some reading though.

both of these are towny

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm looking for a light game of mafia

What did I get here?

isn't that an oxymoron?

[DuckDuckJab]

What're your reads, Chemist?

I don’t have any strong reads but I’m going to do a full read through with notes once I get back on a computer

Someone should probably remind me to do this in about 2 hours just in case

I’ll read Persy now but iirc Duck/Lime was mostly NAI stuff. I don’t have any meta on Penguin.

Seemed really fake and forced to me.

VOTE: Rich

Policy or legit?

Policy on the persona.

It’s a pretty long ISO so I’ll be doing a couple posts at a time, but this feels kinda weird to me.

percy you're reminding me of prey mafia rn

How so?

I've been waiting for you to interact with me specifically because of prey. In prey, I was scum, I lurked most of D1, then came on late and helped push a stalled town wagon to lynch. IIRC you correctly scum read me for that. Here, I'm active early, providing content and making pushes. This is nothing like my D1 play in Prey.

VOTE: skitter30

I don’t like this push tbh, it’s a combination of self-meta and weird OMGUS.

Do you have any meta

along the lines of

This guy.
Look- you don't get a pass because you've done the bare minimum, answered my questions in fact but not in spirit, and promised to do reads (later, but only if someone reminds you to).
Give us something to work with.

I have no meta on anyone but Creature, which is highposting = town, or at least high amounts of content posts

I don’t agree with Persy’s self-meta case because the only point we can prove about it is activity, which has multiple other factors. It’s just as likely he intentionally highposting to dodge that meta.

percy you're reminding me of prey mafia rn

How so?

I've been waiting for you to interact with me specifically because of prey. In prey, I was scum, I lurked most of D1, then came on late and helped push a stalled town wagon to lynch. IIRC you correctly scum read me for that. Here, I'm active early, providing content and making pushes. This is nothing like my D1 play in Prey.

VOTE: skitter30

Whats the difference between town and scum for skitter?

This is also not great imo, I think as town they’d ask first vote later

haven't read since last ketchup

too busy with learning rimworld.


persi is kinda dicktown. no way power scum dances like he is. hes hunting. but i mean iys multiball so we'll see where he goes

every quote in this post is wolfy
every single one

I would gladly lynch any of {chemist, fusco} rn and I'm happy wagoning lurker penguin

[DuckDuckJab]

chemist turnaround on Persi was better than his obviously phoney reasons for scumreading him but I'd still lynch that and the turnaround townread was still hedgy

not sure chem/fusco s/s but no strong feeling

[DuckDuckJab]

tw checking out to work now bnl

[DuckDuckJab]

like didn't you TR not 2 days ago?

idk what you're talking about fam

- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

Chemist is a great lynch but not a great wagon

- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

If persivul ever dies and flips town I will tunnel JM like I've never tunnelled anybody in my life. Townslip be damned in that case.

100% sure persivul is being set-up for a mislynch at some point during the game.

There is a very devious, deliberate, narrative-shaping approach being followed here. A systematic method of townreading those that agree, shading or scumreading those that don't, alienating outsiders, and misrepresenting persivul.

Can't read the player? Read the damn game. Spidey senses are tingling like crazy.

Granted I can't say for a fact that JM is the scum among those creating this atmosphere, but that's who's doing the things I mentioned most obviously.

-BuJ

this just feels ???? weird and wrong

Then you might be one of the townies that got manipulated not one of the drivers of the movement.

It remains to be seen.

I really thought my game state analysis was pretty obvious, the push around persivul was not subtle at all, but I guess too many people are reacting with ???? So I'll basically have to show you all a bunch of quotes sometime.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Here's a few things to think about skitter.

Your early townread on me was weird. Didn't do enough to earn it. And then your retraction of it was equally so, seemed like you didn't want to be townread anymore.

Then you seem to be so interested in knowing what we think of you, and I got this sense that you were making some strange attempt at creating more disagreement between tw and I.

That's some of the things I remember about you. And they're not things that make super confident but you should understand gut feels more than anybody because your scumhunting style is like 99% emotional on the emotional/logical scale. The anti-cerberus if you will.

So yeah tell me why sky is the one manipulating you not the other way. And tell me where JM fits in your triangle. I'll give you the other names involved in the lynch persivul collective when I compile the list of quotes.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

seemed like you didn't want ME to be townread anymore.

EBWOP

[DuckDuckJab]

Chemist is a great lynch but not a great wagon

- tw

Elaborate please.

He's just scumposting all the time. He's been reasonably active so pressure there doesn't feel necessary rn. I doubt he's going to stop posting. He's aware people scumreading him. He'll spew his alignment pretty soon on his own.

I'd prefer to wagon slots which are lurking (/quieter) or just more controversial to get content flowing.

But if we had 24 hours left aorn I'd be super keen to powerlynch chemist because he is indeed scumposting.

How do you feel about the conflicting reads on your slot dave?


- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

where did skitter mention anything about being manipulated by me or whatever?

She didn't. I am saying that scum are trying to take control of the game. Set-up persivul for a lynch and establish a townblock that serves their agenda. To do they choose a few townies to manipulate to make their plans more credible. You agree to their narrative, welcome to their townblock. You don't, you're on your own.

Skitter is obviously reacting to my analysis as though she's town. So I'm saying IF she is, she's been manipulated and I want her to help me believe that/and also identify who did the manipulating.

You jump out as a suspect, because not a lot of players here can tug at the heartstrings of skoffin, and one of them is my hydra partner, so actually the list is even shorter. That's why it's more likely that she is the manipulator not the victim, but by engaging her she might convince me otherwise.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

ur right i definitely talked skitter into voting persi whoops my b

You got her to townread you and vork.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

And you didn't do anything about the persivul wagon until you decided to join it later.

Pulling strings from afar.

My theory is dependent on scum empowering town to do the wrong thing by making them think it's the right thing.

I just don't know yet who's manipulating whom.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

So why are you helping scum continue the push on persivul?

What convinced you that she isn't scum pocketing you?


-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

If I'm reading too much into your posts tell me. I just assume you are happy with letting skitter do whatever instead of pushing her because you no longer think she's being weird.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

This ties in with what I don't like about vork's posting.

He's being safe by not getting himself involved with conflicts between active players, focusing on lurkers who nobody has a reason to defend, and saying that they're doing that for the 'good of town' (paraphrasing). It's all too LAMIST for me and basically like he doesn't want to the dirty work.

Ignoring lurkers in day 1 when there is real content and conflict to analyze is not 'letting them get away with it'. It's about sorting out and resolving the real issues at hand that actually matter. That give us a direction to move forward. That actually tells us where people stand in the game.

We don't know how lurkers will play in the coming days. We don't have any objective reason to lynch one over the other.

Tabling the discussions at hand is not pro-town like vorkuta claims. It is a blatant misdirection to stop town from actually finding out important things about what's happening.

Frankly I don't give a damn if dunn is scum right now for example despite having no content in her iso so far. Because she's not doing anything. Not pushing an agenda, not creating a narrative, not creating townblocks, not scumreading/shading people. She's not a threat to anybody at the moment and her flip gives us nothing.

Similar with other lurkers.

The real treasure is in sorting out the people adding to the post count. The people shaping the flow of the game. Sorting through the interactions that are happening. Establishing possible scumteams or non-team interactions etc.

Basically I don't want to lynch a lurker and then night 1 some townie gets killed without scum being forced to place their vote on their wagon or put themselves on the line by fabricating a case on them.

Killing the active discussions is anti-town. And my partner tells me vorkuta is a newbie so that gives him some benefit of doubt, but it doesn't make him right.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

For the record my read on Vork is very likely town but I think Buj's concerns deserve to be noted, even if you townread Vork - I don't think it's possible for he and I to reach a middle ground read with the amount of content currently itt.

A lot of what he's describing is a very valid concern abt Vorkuta's play here. I do think the way he's sitting back analysing and poking fun/shading is more playstyle indicative than scum indicative. (I recall our Newbie together I had to basically physically sit on Vorkuta + PvtUrist to get a 3 way convo going one night<3)

- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

Should be able to get a decent read if I can interact with the worst head. Not familiar with the other head iirc.

Unknown atm.

The other head is BuJaber.
The mod has it listed as NerfedBuJ because I originally signed up to the game with my alt, but then convinced tw to join with our hydra.
Technically it should be "hydra of BuJaber and the worst", but since I'm NerfedBuJ anyway it doesn't matter.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

tw made that choice. I think it was a BoP thing but we haven't talked about you much more than wondering where the hell you are.
I don't want to vote a lurker personally.
Not because you've said anything I can townread I just don't want to gamble on which lurker is scum when there active scummy slots.

But it's not productive to argue too much with my partner so let's first see what comes from the discussion I'm trying to have with everyone.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

If persivul ever dies and flips town I will tunnel JM like I've never tunnelled anybody in my life. Townslip be damned in that case.

100% sure persivul is being set-up for a mislynch at some point during the game.

There is a very devious, deliberate, narrative-shaping approach being followed here. A systematic method of townreading those that agree, shading or scumreading those that don't, alienating outsiders, and misrepresenting persivul.

Can't read the player? Read the damn game. Spidey senses are tingling like crazy.

Granted I can't say for a fact that JM is the scum among those creating this atmosphere, but that's who's doing the things I mentioned most obviously.

-BuJ

This ties in with what I don't like about vork's posting.

He's being safe by not getting himself involved with conflicts between active players, focusing on lurkers who nobody has a reason to defend, and saying that they're doing that for the 'good of town' (paraphrasing). It's all too LAMIST for me and basically like he doesn't want to the dirty work.

Ignoring lurkers in day 1 when there is real content and conflict to analyze is not 'letting them get away with it'. It's about sorting out and resolving the real issues at hand that actually matter. That give us a direction to move forward. That actually tells us where people stand in the game.

We don't know how lurkers will play in the coming days. We don't have any objective reason to lynch one over the other.

Tabling the discussions at hand is not pro-town like vorkuta claims. It is a blatant misdirection to stop town from actually finding out important things about what's happening.

Frankly I don't give a damn if dunn is scum right now for example despite having no content in her iso so far. Because she's not doing anything. Not pushing an agenda, not creating a narrative, not creating townblocks, not scumreading/shading people. She's not a threat to anybody at the moment and her flip gives us nothing.

Similar with other lurkers.

The real treasure is in sorting out the people adding to the post count. The people shaping the flow of the game. Sorting through the interactions that are happening. Establishing possible scumteams or non-team interactions etc.

Basically I don't want to lynch a lurker and then night 1 some townie gets killed without scum being forced to place their vote on their wagon or put themselves on the line by fabricating a case on them.

Killing the active discussions is anti-town. And my partner tells me vorkuta is a newbie so that gives him some benefit of doubt, but it doesn't make him right.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

I did not include the skygazer and skitter parts because they're directed at them specifically, but you can read them also.

[DuckDuckJab]

PENGUIN

I voted you to sp00k you when you got into the thread. Can I help you catch up?

- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

I am sufficiently sp00ked!

You're town right?

for once yes

you?

[DuckDuckJab]

If lurkers don't activate and aren't towny we lynch them
If lurkers are towny all we can do is hope they're not shit late game

Penguin for example is a terrific town player, he's just literally not been here.

[DuckDuckJab]

I am sufficiently sp00ked!

You're town right?

for once yes

you?

Yep.

My vote on jm still good or has the slot towned it up?

We had a bit of a yelling match..
I would be quite surprised if JM was scum.

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Dunnstral since you say you're town this is the next place I want pressure.

[DuckDuckJab]

yeah and yeah

Fusco is indeed scum but we can deal w/ that l8r

[DuckDuckJab]

yeah and yeah

Fusco is indeed scum but we can deal w/ that l8r

hi just popping in to say can we not make posts like this

like the job of town is to lynch scum so intentionally not lynching scum is ??? at best in most scenarios

sorry I can't fix your role pm but I can make more vague confusing posts for the sake of town

the chemist flies south for summer

[DuckDuckJab]

oh no, not the "pressure votes", anything but that

how does it feel dunny?
is your soul burning?!

please do something if you're town dude your towngame is something I enjoy a lot

VOTE: chemist

[DuckDuckJab]

if this can be L-1 by the time I'm done working I'll be so happy
\(-ㅂ-)/ ♥ ♥ ♥

[DuckDuckJab]

can you kindly explain why yous alls jumped on what's kinda my rvs vote im toolazy to remove?

nice wking
also no

if you disagree with this either unvite or towncase him or call one of our votes scummy or something

like this is the hedgiest reaction I've ever seen to someone accidentally starting a wagon they obviously don't mind going through but don't particularly give a stuff about

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm probably gonna ignore Fuckoso until they're dead or apologise and reply to me or ideally both tbh

[DuckDuckJab]

the duck actually
I don't take kindly to being brushed aside
can handle it when it's organic, when it's rude it's unnecessary and makes people harder to read

[DuckDuckJab]

skitter liking my fusco stance and not liking my chemist stance is a fair standard. chemist is playing the game in better faith than fusco and was actually posting (vs. the wagons we have been pushing).

all you're doing here is ensuring if chemist flips red (he's constantly scumposting so I'm putting this >>rand) we waste a lynch on our slot which will never be NK'd pre-LyLo

you've seen the way I can stay on optically bussing wagons while working against my partners' lynches (I voted at least one of Perf/Keys every phase in Starcraft iirc but successfully steered wagons against them). Don't act like I need to push lurker mislynches over my obvscum buddy, or like I would bat an eyelid before bussing chemist in this gamestate. I know you know my game better than this and I think you realise I'm better than this.

read us on our merits, scrap the preflip associative

- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

I actually think us soft defending chemist that way is closer to s/w indicative than s/s indicative, like I've actually gotten fairly good at distancing and soft bussing so I have no idea why you think I'm a viable chemist partner

[DuckDuckJab]

actually I'm getting too many mbos flashbacks

you (and earlier Skyg and to an extent Lime) are finding reasons to scumread us

I think I'm personally very obvtown right now and I think Buj is townposting almost constantly. if I didn't know your meta well I'd think you were scum positioning us.

please try harder. I don't like that you're scared to townread me.

[DuckDuckJab]

Skitter if you disagree with your perception of your game that's fine, but like don't take it the wrong way. It's not a bad thing at all. It's like introvert vs. Extrovert. Purely logical players miss a loot of things in the early game because they don't have that radar that pings them that something is wrong. I myself lean more towards the emotional side. Day 1 is my favorite phase because it's all about finding subtle weird interactions.

Once you confidently feel something about a player it is very difficult for you to change your view. You also tend to bd unsure about every read you have before you get to that stage, because you know things don't feel right but you're not quite sure what it is about them exactly.

Sound familiar?

Maybe tw just knows you very well but I always struggle with reading you in the early game because on the outside it looks like a lot of hedging, and also that it is easy to fake what's above.

Funnily enough what you like to do most which is real time interactions is also the best parts of your ISOs to use for reading you imo. Because it's harder to fake a dialogue than a monologue.

I don't know how anything dunn has posted can be townread. She's null and leaning scum for not engaging despite popping in at times. So really I'd lynch chemist for that alone.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Why bother playing the game? Let's just let shoshin go on her fairytale adventure, prove herself wrong, have 0 people to blame but herself, and then maybe she can learn to analyze people and gamestates correctly.

Excellent way of getting people to work with you. Real solid people skills.

I'mma let my partner talk for a while. I'll backseat drive. Peace-out.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

tw and buj how much are you two communicating? like im not sure if i'd describe your play as hydra dissonance but it feels like you two are approaching the game in two different directions

duck is town tho like i dont see scum-buj making the posts he's been making even if they're ??? to me, and i feel like the hydra posts/reads would be more unified if they were trying to approach this game with an agenda

I try to be more support role (aka. lazy) when I hydra but thread presence has been demanded so we've both been itt more than on discord

we also have v v different scumhunting styles hence why we have different styles here

sorry I'm not sure what you're looking for exactly

[DuckDuckJab]

we shouldn't lynch Chemist today

Sorry, I don't understand how any of the chemist points are actually town indicative in multiball and I'm not sure why scum!Chemist would take the approach you're suggesting he would as scum.

[DuckDuckJab]

scum confirmed

[DuckDuckJab]

I didn't expect to find a towncase which felt tonally fake in multiball

What does it MeeAAaaNNnnNN

[DuckDuckJab]

ayy

welcome Relly

[DuckDuckJab]

oh no are you scum

[DuckDuckJab]

hE kEePs ScUmPoStInG

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm at work elephant friend, also a lot less hooked on maf now than I was a bit ago

What's up?

[DuckDuckJab]

yeah skitter said what were all thinking

BTW I think shoshin is town/definitely not scum with skitter for the call on losing her skitter townread, it was well timed and I think I agree somewhat. I'm still largely townreading skitter tho

[DuckDuckJab]

if we don't lynch Fusco today lynch him tmrw btw

chemist vt claim is exactly ok/10 and I wouldn't put tonnes of stock into claimsolving

[DuckDuckJab]

buj is town but im still not sold on tw

I want you to look yourself in the mirror and repeat this 20 times then come back to the thread and say it again

[DuckDuckJab]

don't wagon persi btw I'm mild town on him but Buj is very strong town on him (I double checked out discord logs to make sure on this)

[DuckDuckJab]

Awwww HEY
I was actually hoping this slot would be Wolf with Shoshin because odds are we’re about to read like partners anyway

I appreciate this was a joke post but it servers a more solid purpose for scum (wifom/asdociatives) than it does for town (displaying fluid tone? your tone is fine as either alignment) and the fact you responded by saying you wrote it pregame when my shade on your entrance was largely a joke is slightly >rand scum but I think your pred was loosely towny

so I did shade you to throw you off balance yes sue me

should I be townreading you? where did I shade you a second time?

[DuckDuckJab]

i think he's, like, actually beign scummy; i don't think he's just being a lurky nullslot tbh

his posts are all godawful

also did you realize that shoshin = jungle medicine?

also what do you mean by 'i'm not sold on chemist being town?'

@skitter this is the post I agree heavily with

[DuckDuckJab]

Id make a case on baezu, but

they are low hanging fruit so we should just lynch them

.

ftfy fucksco

[DuckDuckJab]

Relly opening is actually w indicative

[DuckDuckJab]

Fucksco
> does nothing
> is a reads god with the game solved
> probably eats his town farts

[DuckDuckJab]

OWN!!!! he's not town!! damnit

[DuckDuckJab]

but yeah please do something

[DuckDuckJab]

no I meant chemist keeps scumposting
that's the case against chemist

you've been fine since the opener

[DuckDuckJab]

keep posting Mr elephant keep posting!!!

[DuckDuckJab]

Relly opening is actually w indicative

Wait like
Why

Awwww HEY
I was actually hoping this slot would be Wolf with Shoshin because odds are we’re about to read like partners anyway

I appreciate this was a joke post but it servers a more solid purpose for scum (wifom/asdociatives) than it does for town (displaying fluid tone? your tone is fine as either alignment) and the fact you responded by saying you wrote it pregame when my shade on your entrance was largely a joke is slightly >rand scum but I think your pred was loosely towny

so I did shade you to throw you off balance yes sue me

should I be townreading you? where did I shade you a second time?

read these backwards

[DuckDuckJab]

but yeah please do something

like give reads on the wagon, build a base of townreads to orient myself, and pick baezu as the scum i think I just caught?

sure
sure
or sure

just sell me on something. let your soul be exposed to me

[DuckDuckJab]

skygaze, ducks, shosin, persi, skitter
chenn

davesaz, creature

baezu, chemist


Ill have time to do a little more. maybe vork?

actually these are some good reads

scumpost

[DuckDuckJab]

but it’s his belief that scum would be more likely to claim vt because the setup is complicated that I’m confused about

Its c++

Theres a [giant] grid in play, and any number of role counterclaim the others. Without any flips or claims its silly to claim anything but VT as scum.

so yes. If he had claimed literally anything else Id be taking a step back to look.

but indicates his partner/s are likely deeper scum

[DuckDuckJab]

no there isn't daytalk; i checked the role pms in the wiki

from what i see of chemist's playstyle here i think if there's daytalk scum!chemist would prob be told to claim pr, but he would not necessarily take the initiative to do that on his own

good take let's nuke chemist later

[DuckDuckJab]

y not

[DuckDuckJab]

Oh later this day phase yeah
Sorry I didn't communicate that

We inexplicably have 14 days left and the gamestate is still pretty fluid imo

[DuckDuckJab]

Duck don’t disappear either
I saw in JM’s ISO how you’re throwing shade at slots that don’t need it
Don’t call me scum just because we both wish I was your partner and then disappear

yeah skitter said what were all thinking

BTW I think shoshin is town/definitely not scum with skitter for the call on losing her skitter townread, it was well timed and I think I agree somewhat. I'm still largely townreading skitter tho

Nvm duck you can go this was a very towny post from you I’ll leave you alone for a bit
I just didn’t like you shading my entrance twice

Hi skitter! I’m regretting repping into this game D1, i should have waited for an inevitable D2 rep out, so many pedits and so many ISOs

the Deep Dark recesses of my brain want to scream pockety but the more I think about it the more I like this trajectory

[DuckDuckJab]

I think I'm townreading fusco now.

help me see it?

[DuckDuckJab]

@everyone: Chennis and roster tunneling each other weakly: M/M, M/W, M/T, or T/T?

not T/T

[DuckDuckJab]

Oh later this day phase yeah
Sorry I didn't communicate that

We inexplicably have 14 days left and the gamestate is still pretty fluid imo

Ah i thought u meant later dayphase.

How are u reading penguin?

pengwhouin?
very null

[DuckDuckJab]

OK that was a wild ride

[DuckDuckJab]

VOTE: Baezu let's goo

[DuckDuckJab]

If persivul ever dies and flips town I will tunnel JM like I've never tunnelled anybody in my life. Townslip be damned in that case.

100% sure persivul is being set-up for a mislynch at some point during the game.

There is a very devious, deliberate, narrative-shaping approach being followed here. A systematic method of townreading those that agree, shading or scumreading those that don't, alienating outsiders, and misrepresenting persivul.

Can't read the player? Read the damn game. Spidey senses are tingling like crazy.

Granted I can't say for a fact that JM is the scum among those creating this atmosphere, but that's who's doing the things I mentioned most obviously.

-BuJ

@skitter - remember when I said this?

Now think back. What happened between the time when shoshin was townreading you 100% and when she began scumreading you?

Exactly.

You changed your mind on persivul, and insisted on the chemist push.
In other words directly disagreeing with shoshin's reads.

Shoshin if town is now just a puppet for scum basically.

Game feels more like a cult and if you don't like it you get exiled. Kind of a bad metaphor because who wants to be in a cult am I right, but you get the point.

I don't like being pushed to think in a certain way. I will form my own reads than you very much.

@Phantismo (I missed this nickname) - you feel really weird mate. I've been scum against town!you twice in the past and you've never seemed this sheepy/unsure/scared to form an original thought before.

I think tw is asleep atm but I'll be talking about the baezu vote. Baezu hasn't exactly done anything that makes me go "okay this guy is town", he's kinda nullscum, whereas we both agreed that chemist is scum. So our vote will probably end up back there.

@Dunn - why did you join this game?

[DuckDuckJab]

Aw classic nickname I almost forgot about itttt

But also yes you literally have seen me be this sheepy/unsure (though I guess not scared to form original thoughts - which is also not an apt descriptor of my play here). Like literally I’ve only played this mindlessly a couple times and you were there for one of them, under very similar circumstances: I repped in, gave a high-confidence townread on Shoshin, and then sheeped Shoshin and RC’s reads to a win. I didn’t even really have any scumreads of my own that game iirc, just townreads and sheepreads. Why scumread me for play that you specifically know can come from town!me (and also, it’s worth noting, has basically never come from scum!me)?

I didn't say I definitely scumread you, just wanted to hear your explanation.

And in that game both the people "you were sheeping" were townreading me yet no matter how hard I tried, you still scumread me in the end and didn't follow my plan.

Even when sheeping you had your own thought trajectory that allowed you to trust both your gut and to sheep their other non-wrong reads.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

I haven’t seen anyone townread Dave strongly; I townread Dave strongly

This was my take akshully ):
- tw

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't townread Chenn but I feel a resounding "meh" abt lynching him

[DuckDuckJab]

Chemist lynch is good regardless of if we find more scum tho

[DuckDuckJab]

@those townreading DuckJab who have said things like “duck is hard to read but I’m townreading BuJaber” - why? What about BuJaber has been towny (genuine question their shared ISO is long and without context it’s not always easy to know who’s talking)

don't think scum!him goes against shoshin at that point of the game, when she was widely townread
some of his thoughts feel ~real~ and almost too paranoid to be made up if that makes sense
like he's going against consensus enough that i feel like he really believes what he's saying

qft

I know I'd say this regardless of my hydra p's alignment but like the Buj posts are pretty obvtown even if you're not sure how to approach me

:/

[DuckDuckJab]

dave would you mind talking to me abt what you're seeing w/ chemist? If you need some talking points and prompts lmk and I'll provide!

[DuckDuckJab]

How's the mislynch going?

What makes you so sure?
I've liked the resistance. I think it's a good sign that chemist is in fact scum.

@Phantismo - tw tends to be more spammy than I. But also I've had personal reasons for not playing as much as I would be normally.

why are ppl still townreading me ive been lurking so much

Why say this? It's not even targetted at anyone in particular that townreads you. What were you even hoping to achieve?

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

Me scumreading the duck is, honestly? basically proof he's town. but I can't help it it's how I feel even though it feelsbadman to put that slot there

Also I remain unconvinced by skitter's "bujaber is anti-consensus and therefore town" when it seems like tw is the dominant head and very consensus (i.e. could just be a hydra play to get townread by "having different reads") & unconvinced by tw's "yes townread my hydra partner yes". Perhaps the problem here is that I've only played with scumjaber and have a >rand misread rate on tw.,,

*thumbs up*
don't powertown against us relly I'm consensus because I forged the consensus and I'm a bit surprised you haven't noticed yet

[DuckDuckJab]

{shoshin, skitter}
{dave, creature, skygazer}
{penguin, dunnstral, Vorkuta*}
null: {persivul, baezu*}
{fuscosco, duckduck*}
{roster, chennis}
{chemist}

just for context I hard meta townread skitter early on as well + stood against shoshin for making the Vorkuta call too early before heavily engaging with her then coming out with a townread

I was the first one to hard townread Dave I think (maybe Baezu was? I was the first noisy person to hard townread Dave). I hard townread Creature right at SOD1 then dropped him a tier. I also heavily townread Skygazer but not as heavily as skitter.

BuJaber was the one exercising caution against reading Vorkuta too early.

I'm the one who's been yelling to keep an eye on Fucksco. I'm the one who pointed out chemist is scumposting and not just LHF.

Your reads are basically a poor cc of our reads and you have the audacity to call my reads consensus. you're not gonna read me correctly without actually reading the thread and I'm disappointed you're resigning to just misreading me time and time again.

[DuckDuckJab]

(sorry that sounds harsh. you're just getting my reaction to being misread because it's very :/// here to me)

[DuckDuckJab]

this is BuJaber posting ofc

[DuckDuckJab]

this is BuJaber posting ofc

Lol
Your ISO is long and I’ve been saving it for last
I might come around
If you’re scum this wouldn’t be the first time you were town leader though, so I’m not sure why I should be townreading you for forming consensus

I'm not sure why you should be scumreading me for consensus reads when I wrote the consensus. you're confbiasing me as scum and it's difficult for me to parse whether it's agenda driven or paranoia driven. I mostly townread you rn but this is definitely the dampener and it's vexing.

[DuckDuckJab]

(sorry that sounds harsh. you're just getting my reaction to being misread because it's very :/// here to me)

This is kind of a bit much for a guy who said he didnt actually read your profile or the chronological game?

You seem to TR him, mostly. I dont quite see why

nope. it's entirely justified letting him know his reason for being worried about me is jank.

Also if I'm an ass I don't even have words for what you are <3

[DuckDuckJab]

The fact we're super obvtown yet are struggling to get townread is pretty towntelling lfmao

anyway I'll stop rambling about how town we are

BuJ and I agree on a scumread. who wants to guess who it is?

[DuckDuckJab]

chen or chem

inchorrect

[DuckDuckJab]

well they're both correct too
just more lukewarm takes

[DuckDuckJab]

Is your scumread roster

....yes