Open 755: Two-Fold C9++ (GAME OVER)

[Persivul]

VOTE: Rich

[Persivul]

Seemed really fake and forced to me.

[Persivul]

VOTE: vorkuta

[Persivul]

VOTE: Rich

Policy or legit?

Policy on the persona.

[Persivul]

You're.... not duck. Imma wait until duck gets back. /s

they don't need all the fluff explaining that they're doing that

I'm being scum read for trying to make my posts seem fun and fluffy. Ok. Lesson learnt.

and that they don't care if they get wagoned, you know?

I don't think that an early D1 wagon on me will get through, so I'm being slightly cavalier about it.
It'll help me scum hunt better.

Still like my vote on this.

[Persivul]

By the way Skitter, something to remember about the current gamestate: You know something about me that others don't.

Please explain

Seconded.

[Persivul]

Persivul- love that avatar, hate your contentless posts...come play!

Pretty busy at work through 4.15.

[Persivul]

Vorkuta – 3/9 – Skygazer, Persivul, DuckDuckJab

why is this a thing

56 - "The transition from RVS into proper D1 is always awkward especially when not everyone (hi skitter) has even checked in, but let's see what I can do." Sounds like slef-conscious scum giving a pre-emptive reason for awkward posts.

"Chemist's somewhat hostile reaction to the RVS counter votes feel town.
I feel that a few more people might pile up on the wagon, but then it'll naturally diffuse and flow on to the next person." NSS - words that don't do anything but kinda look like analysis.

61 65 - Overly defensive to mild pressure.

77 - Buddying with duck. "REALLY REALLY" getting traitor scum pings from Sky, but doesn't vote.

106 - "seriously detecting" those traitor pings, but still doesn't vote (still has his RVS vote up rn).

Need I go on?
How do you NOT have suspicion of him?

[Persivul]

Early thoughtful posting
That's the good shit that I'm down with
#77 from Vork
Lookin hella townish

Casting shade without casting a vote looks hella townish because...?

[Persivul]

What if I'm a slef-conscious person by nature

regardless of alignment

?

First, WTF is with the strikeout? I'd lynch you just to get rid of that. It's annoying.

Second, I don't think it's NAI. Your beginning in MN 2058, in which you were town, was smoother.

So town!vork should be rolling over and allowing this BS to stand uncontested.

Yep.

Anyone referencing previous games is scum. Good to know.

Nope, not anyone referencing a previous game. This:

Hi duckling- thanks for the PM a while back. It made my day!

As you already know, I only roll town.
How about you? Can we get the fuzzy warm strength back?

That's buddying. Your misrep on me and your snark aren't helping things either.

I got lucky and have my RVS vote right where I want it for the time being, as catching scum>catching a traitor.

That would be fine if you were pushing it. You're not. You had a couple mechanics related interactions with Dave.

[Persivul]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78234

You were VT in this game. You got wagoned to L-1 and were quite cool. Not overly defensive, no snark, just kept scum hunting.

[Persivul]

I find it very agenda driven of you to tunnel me so hard when
-other people are guilty of doing the same things you accuse me of
-it seems that you actually might be scum looking to get early points by attacking the lowest hanging fruit

Scum don't get points for pushing mislynches. Unless you're suggesting that we're each scum but on different teams...

p-edit: the strikeouts are annoying in general.
p-edit: yes, I believe the strikeout is spreading to others as well, would like to nip it in the bud.

[Persivul]

Lotta people need to talk.

[Persivul]

he feels awkward to me, but having an awkward playstyle isn't the same thing as being scum; nothing you mentioned here is really inheretnly more scum-indicative than 'having an awkward playstyle' indicative

Bullshit. Casting shade without a vote isn't a playstyle thing, it's a scum thing.

[Persivul]

percy you're reminding me of prey mafia rn

How so?

I've been waiting for you to interact with me specifically because of prey. In prey, I was scum, I lurked most of D1, then came on late and helped push a stalled town wagon to lynch. IIRC you correctly scum read me for that. Here, I'm active early, providing content and making pushes. This is nothing like my D1 play in Prey.

VOTE: skitter30

[Persivul]

Idk, because I was on the receiving end of that just now, but my scum detector really didn't go off.
I mean I have a case for a scum!persivul, but more people need to say things before I can be sure of it.
Tentative wrong!town (with many scum points) on this.

I have a case, but I won't give it until I know there are people willing to receive it. This is scummy af.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

the first person that tells me who to vote gets my sheep for a little bit

Might be too late, but if it isn't, vote skitter. Set up a 1v1 between me and her.

[Persivul]

Here's a link to Prey:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78424

My play here is nothing like my early play in Prey. I didn't make a single push until late in phase. I even voted a lurker (the only decent reason to vote dave BTW - his tone is always awkward).

[Persivul]

happy to give some unfiltered takes while I'm catching up if people want

Yes please do.

[Persivul]

Whats the difference between town and scum for skitter?

[Persivul]

I have no clue what that means.

[Persivul]

Did you actually call the highest postcount player a lurker?

Sorry, that was unclear. I meant that you've voted a lurker, when there's people with content that you could be pushing. That's something I sometimes do as scum.

[Persivul]

Skitter's far outside her scum meta.

I'm 100% confident on this read.

As you're an alt, that does nothing for me.

[Persivul]

All ears.

I was paraphrasing you there. Guess I should have put it in italics.

[Persivul]

@Persivul- Duck can confirm that town!vork throws shade left and right without following it up with a vote.

What do you do as scum?

[Persivul]

I'm just rebutting your

Playstyle is tone, posting frequency, etc. What you're saying is that as town, you're scummy, so this scumminess is really NAI. I'm not a big fan of that position.

[Persivul]

Idk, because I was on the receiving end of that just now, but my scum detector really didn't go off.
I mean I have a case for a scum!persivul, but more people need to say things before I can be sure of it.
Tentative wrong!town (with many scum points) on this.

I have a case, but I won't give it until I know there are people willing to receive it. This is scummy af.

Ok I’ll keep this in mind so that I can ask you about this later- you’re becoming one of my strongest turn reads

Note that I was mocking his "I mean I have a case for a scum!persivul, but more people need to say things before I can be sure of it." I've been presenting my case on him as it builds.

You're my only town read rn, but then I don't give out town reads readily.

Last time I was town with (sorta) multiball, both targeted me for kill N1 (and I was copped!), so I'm not expecting to be around long.
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=78950

[Persivul]

I also want to see what others will say to Persy's tunnel on me.

You mean the tunnel on you in which I moved my vote from you to skitter?

[Persivul]

There's no way you can compare your push on skitter to your hypertunnel on yours truly.

I'm just going to double down on this to demonstrate how unsatisfied I am with your points.

Your """push""" on skitter, is actually a "chainsaw attack" as she was defending me, and you played the "anyone who defends my enemy is also my enemy" card. (not very chivalrous of you )
It's like a tangent and a byproduct of your tunnel on me.

So vote me.

[Persivul]

i mean this'll be fun and amusing but if you set this up i'm going to win this about 100% of the time

What makes you think I intend to "win" it?

[Persivul]

idk than what's the point of setting up a 1v1?

In this case, information for town.

[Persivul]

ok let's do it if you want, it'll prob help me read you

I doubt it. Your read is just based on nebulous feels. I'm more interested in what a lynch wagon on me would be composed of.

[Persivul]

I actually rolled scum b2b since returning (BOP mafia 2 & s1e15 shore leave mafia) and TBH my excitement at being able to town again is radiating but tragically I don't think anyone will take that at face value

Kinda tough to take unsigned posts from a hydra at face value.

[Persivul]

i think town!you should be townreading me here

Exactly the problem I have with you. I'm very different here from prey, in tone and action.

[Persivul]

Creature needs to post.

[Persivul]

I'm sorry, Duck. Can you please refer me to the posts you'd like a response to? I also feel like you're not responding to me so something's just not clicking this game.

I'm sorry, Duck. Can you please refer me to the posts you'd like a response to? I also feel like you're not responding to me so something's just not clicking this game.

Intentional slip.

Intentionally bringing an outside influence into the game.

[Persivul]

It's the equivalent of her saying "yo tw I'm shoshin"

It's proving it with something outside the game. There's a difference. In my opinion anyway. The powers that be can figure it out.

[Persivul]

I know I'm town now, so I'll push him:

VOTE: Jungle

[Persivul]

Is there a case beside lurking?

[Persivul]

What does Buj think about him?

[Persivul]

misrepresenting Persivul (not true.

Actually have to agree with that, as you haven't made a case on me at all.

[Persivul]

"I know I'm town now" -- who ever says that?

WTF, try reading for context.

[Persivul]

What part of Buj's post do you agree with Persi?

The general setup for my mislynch.

I'm frequently abrasive in tone. People use that to push me. However, when I'm town, as I am now, people looking past the tone to see motivations have a pretty good idea that I'm town. So, people who push me are either bad town using superficial analysis, or scum looking to get rid of me early.

[Persivul]

How have I acted to set up your mislynch?

- Er, you voted me.
- Implying that skitter (and to a lesser extent vorkuta) are so obvtown that anyone pushing them must be scum.

[Persivul]

"I know I'm town now" -- who ever says that?

WTF, try reading for context.

I would have expected something along the lines of
I know I'm town so I'll push him now.
The now modifies the push in this case, not the knowing.

Notice I'm not basing a read change on this nuance. I don't expect everyone to know those are two different statements. It's a very minor clue, minor enough it could mean nothing.

In the post just before mine, Buj said

If persivul ever dies and flips town I will tunnel JM...

So, me saying I know

I know I'm town now, so I'll push him

makes sense in context.

[Persivul]

And Persivul uncritically sheeping Buj on this is even worse.

But it was OK here...

I hope he was scum there, because while I wanted to let the game develop before I commented on these early game pushes but this one is narrative driven and shallow.

yeah he was

VOTE: persy

VOTE: persivul

You're scummy by your own standards.

[Persivul]

am willing to sheep skitter/jungle here and am not liking persi's recent posts

What don't you like about them?

[Persivul]

615 is bleh since its kinda obvious that jungle has seemed to put thought into their skitter read even if the reasoning for it isnt publicly stated (i cant remember the reasoning if there is any)

615 isn't about his skitter read. It's about blindly sheeping skitter, then saying my sheeping Buj is scummy.

the tone of everything else is kinda sticking out?

More tone.

[Persivul]

ur response to skitters vote was also rlly weird after a quick iso reread this morning

like i probably wouldve voted u last night if i wasnt drunk

Making up reasons for the vote after making the vote.

[Persivul]

im saying that if jungle is townreading skitter that strongly then it isnt blindly sheeping

Of course it is. Someone can be

town

and yet be

wrong

in their reads.

[Persivul]

but skitter is good at this gane [citation needed]

Sure is. That's why I'm concerned that she's scum reading me.

and has laid out her reasoning

Which isn't much more than, "it's not what you're doing or pushing exactly, it's more of a tone thing."

Following that "reasoning" is blind sheeping. And I don't have a problem with blind sheeping at this point in D1. But, I do have a problem when one person sheeps, but then says another person is scummy for sheeping.

buj just kinda said "yeah if persi town then jungle possibly scum because setting up a mislynch" and you were just like yeah!! which is weird because jungle absolutely has reasoning to vote you rn even if ur both town

When the "reasoning" is skitter's "tone" thing, I have to disagree. But as I said, I welcome a lynch. There will be scum on it, and this sort of "reasoning" isn't going to look so great after my flip.

[Persivul]

i think this persi thing was actually starting to go somewhere until they conveniently disappeared w/o talking about their buj read

I don't have one. I generally don't read individual hydra heads, and I certainly don't when they're not signing all their posts.

[Persivul]

I propose we drop the Jungle & Percy votes for now, as we have MORE than enough content to analyze in the later stages of the game, and put our votes on people at the lower half of the activity list.

VOTE: Chemist (4)

I've been thinking this for some time now, but knew it would be pounced on if I were the first to suggest it. Need to do some reading though.

[Persivul]

This is kind of a weird post for two reasons

1. Why are you so worried about getting pushed?
2. It seems like a push while you’re trying to distance from the push.

I'm not worried about being pushed per se. My lynch and flip would probably be pretty valuable.

BUT...the wagon doesn't mean much if I'm lynched for actually playing in a scummy manner. Being the first to suggest looking at lurkers, while under pressure, is an objectively scummy move. So, I didn't do it.

[Persivul]

Vorki, I don’t like the way you’re reacting to this...

Do you think it's more likely scummy, or just town that can't distinguish between a push and a tunnel?

[Persivul]

Dude, you wouldn't know a tunnel from a hole in the ground.

[Persivul]

I think the Chemist Beetlejuice and post toward me are more notable than Penguin's absence.

[Persivul]

Given his other posts, probably the latter

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. Guy strikes me as town with superficial analysis rather than scum.

[Persivul]

I think the Chemist Beetlejuice and post toward me are more notable than Penguin's absence.

Meant to vote there:
VOTE: Chemist

[Persivul]

Don't you find it weird I lurked for about two days?

Three

[Persivul]

Holy shit, someone's actually considering motivations instead of feelz.

[Persivul]

I don't like that Persivul's trying to discredit my read as "feelz."

Your read doesn't even rise to the level of feelz. It's based on Skitter's feelz.

[Persivul]

Persivul- love that avatar, hate your contentless posts...come play!

Pretty busy at work through 4.15.

So you’re an accountant too, eh? Well met fellow bean counter!

Getting close...

[Persivul]

1. His push on Vorkuta was unnatural & scum motivated. There's no deeper thinking or nuance to his read at all, and even though it's multiball, the read seems fake

I agree that there wasn't much in the way of deep thinking or nuance to it. But, considering that the push began on page 3, that's not at all unnatural. There's not enough info to make deep nuanced reads on page 3, at least not for mere mortals like me. So, as town I make pushes based on what little is available to generate content so that I CAN form a read. That's a pretty common practice at the beginning of a mafia game.

& out-of-touch with the fact that Vorkuta's likely town.

First, you don't get to proclaim alignments as facts.

Second, at this point I agree that he's likely town. Did you not notice that I stopped pushing him? Did you not notice that I started working with him in 643?

I don't go around announcing my town reads every five minutes. But, if you were applying deep thinking and nuance, you would have seen my read from those actions.

This push makes most sense as an attempt to challenge a townread for the sake of challenging a townread (a scum motivation that still exists in multiball).

No, the push makes most sense as a town attempt to generate content in early game in order to form a read. And it served its purpose.

[Persivul]

Like, we just caught scum and youre asking if its a pressure vote?

I think I could mainhunt with this quote but I don't want to, nor do I think it would be appreciated.

You said that because...?

[Persivul]

I expect to have some time between 5 and 7 hours from now

So how's it going?

[Persivul]

Ill replace out if i find i cant muster the energy for this. I wont let a slot get condemned for my laziness.

New rules - you're not allowed to talk about replacing out.

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[Persivul]

Chemist and Fuscosco are scum so far

Chenn, please unvote Chemist if anyone puts him at L-1. I don't want Chemist lynched & I'm going to make a post about this soon.

i want chemist lynched. i will vote fuscasco (sp?) too

This makes me happy. I had said earlier that creature needed to post, and I've been waiting for him to give some reads before interacting with him. Creature and Skitter both have better D1 reads than me. My reasoning was that, if they agreed on their reads, then:
- the two of them are more likely to be town. If they disagreed wildly I would have thought one of them likely to be scum.
- the people they scum read are pretty good lynches.

[Persivul]

@ Shoshin: chemist's change in his read on me didn't happen independently. He just followed the general trend. I was taking heat, he scum read me. People started saying

nah, persi's town

, he town read me.

[Persivul]

Duck, what do you need from me to convince you to vote Persi?

A good case might help.

His first push of the game, on page 3, wasn't deep and nuanced

really doesn't cut it. Unfortunately I think you're more likely town in a tunnel than scum.

[Persivul]

Hi

I don't want to lynch Chemist

How about fuscosco?

[Persivul]

Skitter's far outside her scum meta.

I'm 100% confident on this read.

What changed?

[Persivul]

Irrel's vote on me is sus. Irrel has in the past few months played a pretty intense T/T game with me, and played a scum game with me. Yet, he's supposedly sheeping other players who to my recollection don't have recent experience with me. He should know me better than them, and acknowledges that in 1164. Yet, his vote remains parked on me while he sorts other players and makes no attempt to interact with me.

[Persivul]

I guess Persivul might be scum
He definitely seemed annoyed at a lot of things?
Persivul were one scum together in a pseudo-multiball, I feel like I should have extra insight here
Maybe I just need to sleep on it

Is annoyed=scum a general scum-hunting rule for you?

[Persivul]

What have been some of your town-indicative moments this game, Persivul? What should I have caught onto so far? I’m willing to admit if you’re right about this, but what specifically should I be townreading you for?

I want

your

read on me so that I can get a better read on you. If I spoon-feed you reasons I won't accomplish that.

[Persivul]

What's changing about skitter, shosh?

[Persivul]

Irrel, please ask Persi my question so that he answers it.

If you want an answer to your question...answer my question.

[Persivul]

But also now that i think more about it it’s silly that your read on me is predicated on my read of you; town can be wrong - heck, in multiball, scum can be wrong. Why is my read on you so important to you, given our history of misreading each other as TvT?

Your read isn't important. The means by which you get to the read - yes, that's important. And I won't get that if I towncase myself so you can just agree or disagree.

[Persivul]

Surely the way I’ve chosen to go about getting a read on you already is something you can get a read from

Yes - I already noted it's scummy.

[Persivul]

One? Easy - I've drawn a lot of attention to myself.

[Persivul]

Skitter's far outside her scum meta.

I'm 100% confident on this read.

What changed?

[Persivul]

mod: VLA until Friday

[Persivul]

I have respect for his scumgame, which makes him hard to read, too.

What do you respect about my scum game?

[Persivul]

How’s post Monday treating you?

Nice...went away to a bed and breakfast in Amish country for two days. Did puzzles. Saw a show. No computer in sight.

You?

[Persivul]

When did it become a thing that when someone gets to L-2 but doesn't get lynched, they must be town?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Penguin

[Persivul]

VOTE: Penguin

Why?

Chemist wagon is the smarter bet.

Like there's obviously one lurker far worse than the rest, but they're the only ones nobody has tried to wagon.
Even if there weren't other reasons to dislike the PP wagon, this should be reason enough. What could possibly be the reason for picking one lurker to lynch over another, if not because one is town and another is scum?

-BuJ

I played a game with Penguin recently in which he was town, and he feels different here.

[Persivul]

Let's mass claim today yeah?

No, let's not. It's too early.

[Persivul]

VOTE: dunnstral
I am ambivalent about massclaim
I’m not sure how we’d decide an order though

Why dunn?

[Persivul]

Persivul is pretty off this game

Funny, I was thinking the same about you.

[Persivul]

PenguinPower – 3/9 – Skitter30,

Skygazer

, Persivul

This wagon should continue.
VOTE: Penguin

[Persivul]

Because imo dunnstral and penguin were playing the same lurky game for most of D1

Yes, but dunn plays lurky as town. I recently played a game with town penguin and he was significantly more active.

When we wagoned Penguin, every scummy lurker came out of the woodwork to vote him (including dunnstral)

That's fair.

When we wagoned Dunnstral, we couldn't get a third vote and chemist almost immediately got lynched

I need to go back and review that.

[Persivul]

dave, penguin, creature, persivul, skitter, Vorkuta, please vote dunnstral

I'd like to see what creature and skitter have to say about this.

[Persivul]

I mean.... okay
Why?

Because they typically have better tone reads than I do. So, their reads on dunn will inform my read on dunn and/or my reads on them.

[Persivul]

a successful nightkill block of some sort

Or both factions targeted sky.

[Persivul]

how do you feel about the fact they both wanted the chemist lynch

Not warm and fuzzy. Seems like they both should have been calling chemist LHF rather than pushing him.

[Persivul]

Real arguments don't matter, shoshin is stuck in a persivul tunnel. It happens.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Roster

Everyone should post before a hammer, but other than that I'm fine with a short day. We already have 70 pages of material to work with, and anything from roster's buddies will just be wifom now.

[Persivul]

Oh look you all disappear when you realise Chenn is fakeclaiming.

You really should wait more than two minutes before saying people have disappeared.

[Persivul]

Especially since I’m only a 1shot. I would have crumbed a result today though if Chenn didn’t try to steal my thunder.

As 1-shot, why would you crumb your result rather than plainly giving it?

[Persivul]

Can we
-mass claim today?

No. We're doing good without it.

[Persivul]

Also trying to reread Shoshin's ISO to see if she crumbed her night target(s), except I'm bad at picking anything up.
Kindly help/advise?

I don't know about crumbs, but there's a pretty good chance it was me.

[Persivul]

@ irrel: But not interested enough to vote me? Want someone else to actually lead the wagon?

[Persivul]

Why did you need to be prompted to vote?

[Persivul]

I'm not getting lynched today btw

Specially considering I was the first to push rosterfoster D1 and skitter has been trying to pocket me.

I've been suspicious of you and skitter. Skitter turned out to be scum. So, I wasn't feeling good about you coming into today.

This post didn't help things.

[Persivul]

idk, i had skitter pegged as town.

whybis creature scum?

Inactive for a good bit of D1, then on the Chemist lynch when, as I said before, I'm surprised he didn't see that as a LHF lynch.

[Persivul]

Did you have an action that was blocked?

No rolefishing please. I was her top scum read, and most people use JK as an RB rather than a doc.

[Persivul]

My living townreads atm are like... Penguin

What's that based on?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Almost50

[Persivul]

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mod, please replace me