Open 761: Grey Flag Nightless - [It's over!]

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I'm Voted's replacement.

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So just to be crystal clear on the logic we're using

If once you've reached 5 way lylo

if Shoshin has 1) pushed a lynch that wasn't in {chemist/nerfedbuj/ankamius} and had it flip town
or 2) shoshin tries in 5 way to push a lynch that's not in {chemist/nerfedbuj/ankamius}

treat her as confirmed scum.

Jfc can you at least wait for me

I'm off work in 20 minutes

ok fine

Alright. I'll note this.

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I'm not exactly sure why there's a deadline.

Does a no-lynch give mafia the kill?

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One of my two scumreads has already been mentioned.

The other is voted

who nobody seems too concerned about

Lazy scumread, Nerfed.

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Nerfed/Chemist/Ircher are scummy.

I've seen Chemist play this way as town though where he contributes nothing to the gamestate, keeps saying "AMA" and he was the first mislynch.

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I'm town. You?

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You're not on my lynchlist right now.

Chemist is also ideal lynchbait for scum to push.

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I've seen chemist have equally awful isos as town as well.

I don't like it, but I certainly don't think it's more scum indicative than Datisi or Buj

I think this is kind of what I'm trying to say.

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It was datisi.. though considering I forgot the slot I'm not so sure anymore.

See what I wrote in blue for how I feel about this post.

VOTE: Voted

How about we don't disarm town of its only weapon.

NerfedBuj tries to start a wagon on Voted and if they've played together even once Buj should know that wagoning Voted isn't productive to town agenda most of the time.

I dunno Shoshin. Do you really think that Buj makes the post he does regarding jealousy of my female attention as town? I really can't see it.
I think it makes a decent amount of sense from the position of scum with Datisi. Not in terms of being a 'good post', but something I can see scum posting.

All of that was just joking. The attention thing was really just a comment on how people play differently just because you're in a game and it's frustrating to sort. They don't play mafia they play "hey RC is here let's see what he does". I didn't expect it to happen in page 1 but you have chemist saying hi only to you and datisi giving you a permanent homage in her signature.

I think you have a totally warped sense of how people treat you in games. You always talk about how it's so bad and boo hoo this or that but from what I've seen in the past like 5 games together people are usually scrambling about and climbing on top of each other to townread or pocket you because of your name alone.

Why people can't wait until you actually post content is beyond me.

Buj goes for the general discredit on RC when it's a specific point that he should answer instead.

Bonus points because Buj knows that his points actually are right, and uses that to cover the fact that his interactions with RC aren't relevant or helpful.

I prefer lobbies where everyone self motivates themselves to play because they want to win the game but ok

VOTE: DATISI

Has she played games with you on MS?

I can't see any difference between her and other lurkers

This isn't genuine. It's quite obvious based on their interactions that RC and Datisi have played together.

My impression of NerfedBuj is that this game is him trying to 1) defend Datisi from the wagon on her until she/someone else arrives to actually take the slot and presumably get it some town credit and 2) prepare to not look as bad when the slot does flip scum. The way he's been treating this slot indicates that he wanted to avoid the flip if possible but also wanted to minimize his losses by being vague. And that's why I think he's being vague in general; to try and cover up his associatives with Datisi. Datisi's ISO is devoid of associatives except for two posts, which don't deserve to be hyperanalyzed just yet.

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I'm about go to sleep - my unpopular scumread is Bitmap and my popular one is Buj

We can sort Buj first but I think Bitmap has scum equity.

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Yeah

So let's flip Buj and win this for the not homies?

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VOTE: buj

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I'm geometry!

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thanks for stealing my hammer ank

VOTE: Ank

Bad Vote.

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Chemist your play is terribly underwhelming even by your standards

I mostly disagree. Wall incoming.

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TL;DR: Chemist is not too far off his town meta, but he's still in my bottom half of reads. If half of his posts are "sorry I'm inactive" that's town-indicative of him.

Spoiler: Because my summary ended up being a wallpost too...

I no longer disagree that Chemist's ISO is underwhelming, but I still disagree that he should be the

automatic

lynch today.

But my goodness, this is harder than trying to hyperanalyze Datisi's ISO.

I'm using Open 755 for meta comparisons because Shoshin and NerfedBuj (in a hydra) were in there, and his town meta that game seemed similar to him.

Shoshin, I'd appreciate a quick summary of your thoughts on Chemist as well to see if I'm off base here.

Spoiler: Chemist

RVS-Stages

Open 761: Boo, I am a ghost.
Open 755: Justifies RVS by saying it's RVS.

People's early thoughts on Chemist

Regardless of the game, people seem to expect Chemist not to play.

Chemist, this game is as good as any to break out of that bad habit and actually post and spew yourself town, if you are. And if you're scum I don't think you're performing well either; most of the reason you're being let off the hook to some extent is because of low standards.

When he's about to be lynched

Open 761: Haven't hit that point yet.

This time, please don't force us to lynch you before you play.

Open 755: He gives reads and plays in a way that make his slot worth reconsidering when it is far too late. At this point, Shoshin already said that Chemist was town and tried to stop the wagon. However at this point, pretty much nobody reconsiders his slot because "boo apathy" and stuff.

So a summary of my thoughts on Chemist:

I don't think Chemist should be apathy or policy lynched for his play today.

He's a player who is difficult to make play using pressure. He is going to give reads without a lot of effort. (All of his correct reads, which were all of them except for Shoshin, were all "null" or "slight." Given that where literally only chennisden misread her (remember PP was scum) and he completely did a 180 when Shoshin mainrevealed while Chemist never reconsidered, I think that this should be taken into account when looking at his readlist, which conveniently avoids Shoshin.)

However, if the wagon/lynch ends up being not motivated by policy/apathy in regards to reading Chemist's slot, and people still want to lynch him after a more thorough examination of his slot, I will support that as there are more scumsigns than usual.

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TL;DR: Chemist is not too far off his town meta, but he's still in my bottom half of reads. If half of his posts are "sorry I'm inactive" that's town-indicative of him.

I no longer disagree that Chemist's ISO is underwhelming, but I still disagree that he should be the

automatic

lynch today.

But my goodness, this is harder than trying to hyperanalyze Datisi's ISO.

I'm using Open 755 for meta comparisons because Shoshin and NerfedBuj (in a hydra) were in there, and his town meta that game seemed similar to him.

Shoshin, I'd appreciate a quick summary of your thoughts on Chemist as well to see if I'm off base here.

Spoiler: Chemist

RVS-Stages

Open 761: Boo, I am a ghost.
Open 755: Justifies RVS by saying it's RVS.

People's early thoughts on Chemist

Regardless of the game, people seem to expect Chemist not to play.

Chemist, this game is as good as any to break out of that bad habit and actually post and spew yourself town, if you are. And if you're scum I don't think you're performing well either; most of the reason you're being let off the hook to some extent is because of low standards.

When he's about to be lynched

Open 761: Haven't hit that point yet.

This time, please don't force us to lynch you before you play.

Open 755: He gives reads and plays in a way that make his slot worth reconsidering when it is far too late. At this point, Shoshin already said that Chemist was town and tried to stop the wagon. However at this point, pretty much nobody reconsiders his slot because "boo apathy" and stuff.

So a summary of my thoughts on Chemist:

I don't think Chemist should be apathy or policy lynched for his play today.

He's a player who is difficult to make play using pressure. He is going to give reads without a lot of effort. (All of his correct reads, which were all of them except for Shoshin, were all "null" or "slight." Given that where literally only chennisden misread her (remember PP was scum) and he completely did a 180 when Shoshin mainrevealed while Chemist never reconsidered, I think that this should be taken into account when looking at his readlist, which conveniently avoids Shoshin.)

However, if the wagon/lynch ends up being not motivated by policy/apathy in regards to reading Chemist's slot, and people still want to lynch him after a more thorough examination of his slot, I will support that as there are more scumsigns than usual.

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Crud no nested spoilers.

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That being said.

What places me in his bottom half is his interactions with/around Datisi and attacking the Datisi wagon by attacking RC's scumread.

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Datisi/Chemist/Buj makes perfect sense as a scum team.

There's more possible scumteams with Datisi/Buj/? than Datisi/Chemist/?

If I'm wrong on BOTH I think it might be Bitmap.

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just hammer

town? i think

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Bitmap has requested to be replaced. Searching for a replacement for Bitmap.

Hmm?

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Okay so is it Datisi/Buj/Bitmap?

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Why Chemist first?

I think Chemist has been legitimately scummy while Buj has just been lurk.

This reads partner lol

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Chemist I think is the designated mislynch for scum

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His posts are way worse than Buj. At least Buj is trying.

partner

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I think me replacing Voted and making this slot sortable just won the game for town, so the scum just left.

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I don't get any of the SRs on Ircher and I think they come/came from all the scummy slots

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they could've conceded....

And yeah, I'd say your town now

It's easier to just... leave.

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I think we just need to find one more townie out of Shoshin/Ircher/geo

Then scum auto lose.

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We literally only lose if Bitmap is scum, and even then? Probably not.

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I think we just need to find one more townie out of Shoshin/Ircher/geo

Then scum auto lose.

nvm, scum auto lose anyways.

i'm confident shoshin is town. i think you're pretty obv town. i'm also town.

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Wait

I know this is gonna drag out the day but DON'T HAMMER.

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Pick the player with highest partner equity with Buj and force them to hammer

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If they don't then we get both scum

There's like only two possible partners to BuJ anyway.

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I know we only need one scumflip but this gives information.

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That's going to be impossible geometry.

Why impossible?

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Ircher ank Geo (3) voting Buj

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neither bitmap nor chemist are voting him.

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I think someone should just hammer BuJ? I don't think we'll get much more out of the day.

I think we will.

If we get thoughts from Shoshin that'd be nice.

If we get Chemist to start playing that'd be nice.

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Chemist and Ircher are currently pinging me the most. Voted has done nothing that's AI for him so far

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I need to sort if that's Datisi doing busywork or distancing with Ircher/Chemist. My gut says it's either neither or both.

I'll sort you soon.

Like, I think you're town, and I think it quite strongly. But I need to be completely sure.

That way we can auto win the game.

You've got to be kidding me.

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yeah

I uh slipped

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so um

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I altslipped in Title Fairy thread as well

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Which is how you found out.

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yeah the game is over.

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Bitmap has requested to be replaced. Searching for a replacement for Bitmap.

I still think it's Bitmap, but.

The game is over anyway.

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Ank is also kind of obv town.

So.

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BuJ is pretty obv scum and I think Bitmap is also scum

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Ircher has felt like scum's designated mislynch all game.

^

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I don't think Ircher is scum

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Actually, not at all.

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Scum in your position either

(a) gives up or
(b) tries to discredit or look for an easy mislynch

You giving up looks much different.

You're not going for Chemist right now. (If Buj was town I don't think anyone could really tell the difference between an apathy vote and scum jumping on, so your vote there is mostly irrelevant. Also, he's basically guiltied scum.)

You've done the exact opposite of discrediting me - you called me obv town before I alt slipped in this game. Which you as scum shouldn't really ever do.

You've advocated following RC's lynchlist, which kind of always loses scum the game.

(And if you're scum, you still lose anyway, so.)

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I just need you and Ircher to step back and look at this objectively.

This turns a 99% win into a 100% win.

This setup is really townsided, we got a scum lynch D1, and we have a ton of associatives to look for

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Why did you just quick hammer?

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Ftr if Buj is town this kinda clears Bitmap

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This also probably wins.

But why?

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What the hell

Why did she quick hammer

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The order is Buj/Ank/Chem.

And if this is all town?

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I'm not confident on my Ircher read and wanted to develop it.

I wanted to interact with Chemist slot. (I know this wouldn't have ever actually happened, but still.)

If Bitmap was town this could've been the chance to untunnel him, and if he was scum well w/e

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A Shoshin/Ircher scumteam will win.

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Also as scum

Ank doesn't know that an anonymous alt which just so happens to be chennisden is going to hard read her as town so she can't try to get away with literally offering herself up

so either a lot of things are going on or she's just TOWN

Plus, we literally never lose to her if she's scum purely because of her predecessor's associative possibilities.

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Why am I doing this.

We probably already won anyways.

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We only lose if both Shoshin and Ircher are scum.

Which is basically never

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Chemist -> Voted -> {Ank, Buj} -> Ircher

Presumably he decides "Ank" later.

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Bitmap has requested to be replaced. Searching for a replacement for Bitmap.

I also really think Bitmap gave up when he saw Voted slot obvtown.