Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[teacher]

Can someone explain to me why egix is not a thing? (Or A50)? Like there’s nothing there.

I’ll vote whoop to eve. Off the wagons, but don’t like that it’s been the same wagons for days w/o a real push off (esp since I know the alignment of one)

[teacher]

Yoink

[teacher]

Have you been in a game where both the D1 wagons have been on scum bag? I mean for real? I haven’t. I’ve seen scum get lynched D1 +rand (one benefit of the newb queue), but the implicit assumption of that feeling is ... unlikely, ya?

[teacher]

Bag=NSG

[teacher]

Fair enough.

[teacher]

Fair enough. I subscribe to CFJ’s views on bussing generally, but haven’t been scum enough to actually play out that kind of situation. It would certainly be outside of my expectations but I can appreciate your experience on it.

[teacher]

The one vote on me I truly dont get, given our history, was Skitter. To me, that interchange, pedantic though it might have been, was so similar to 1951 (right down to the miscommunication with foreigners) that I dont get how it looks scummy in her eyes. Thats kind of why I wanted to vibe with Menalque about it, since he was there too.

You feel more self-righteous here, almost, but i'm not sure it's genuine

You do you skit ?Nd I would have thought the nibs grammar lesson was peak self-righteous (or at least self indulgent)

[teacher]

Fark did scummy things. Nibs just did stupid things. Not the same, but similar levels of pedantic arguing, or at least it felt so. (Between that and Menalque in 1951, I’d have thought me being on actual tilt would register familiar vibes for you, but I guess I can see the difference because I didn’t have scum conviction behind my argument posture here.

[teacher]

Eh, I think to stay up theee hours past my planned sign off point just to tangle I think the conviction is there, just a different kind of conviction (you’re wrong rather than you’re scum). But fair enough.

Also, @NSG, Menalque has a theory maybe around of 25 or so that ducky was scum Pr that bingle was distracting from, so the association is long running.

[teacher]

VOTE: wooper

Nice discussion y’all are having.

[teacher]

Normal 2016 - only full one on site. Repped in to newb 1923 (RASgate) and another newb back in the 1800s as well as the marathon w the worst. I roll town more than skit.

[teacher]

I think tw is at l-2 now btw

Yea both he and I are at 5.

[teacher]

I think I get the crumb.

[teacher]

Sadly not, but I appreciate it <3

[teacher]

Fuck it. Doctor.

Now can we advance the fucking game and laugh at how terrible volpe/nibs reads are?

(Mostly coming in during a free now that we are back in school and seeing I’m at L-1 and wanting to avoid the lol).

[teacher]

To put it skitters terms, it reminded me a lot of page appr 11 of mininorm2080

but remarkably on “non-newb” meta.

faut pas me tuer, tu decouvrais, macaque.

I kept pointing toward this game because I was doc there too -- kinmda thought it was remarkable. And the french translates as you musnt kill me, once I realized Volpe's stupidity is, well, stupid.

[teacher]

I’m down to lynch egix as my most suspect on my wagon? (I think wicked is town and it might be fun to boomerang into volpe, but I think that’s pretty unlikely as a flash wagon. I hate that people have never given reasons to get off egix.

[teacher]

(The on my wagon should have been volpe - mobile fun dropping cursor in wrong place.)

[teacher]

I’m doing my best to channel my inner shoshin and you know, actually find scum. At this point I’m pretty convinced there’s one in the skit/NSG/nibs side AND one in the bingle/tw side. Town feels intentionally and well divided along party lines along with those sitting on the sidelines.

I think bingle is town for how he’s approaching the situation. Therefore, consider this a spiritual return to tws slot until I have some idea what the votecount is.

[teacher]

Do y’all are saying I missed something while mobile?

[teacher]

Therefore, consider this a spiritual return to tws slot until I have some idea what the votecount is.

We're not lynching him today. Try again.

K. My personal pref is nobs/volpe but if not I’d go NSG or bystanders.

[teacher]

anyway should I be fullclaiming here or do we have the sense to lynch Bungle? I'm keeping shit close to my chest unless I'm actually gonna be run up.

Ah yea I definitely missed something.

[teacher]

My bad woops. I have been mobile skimming and am getting a bit of consolidation anxiety.

[teacher]

Is it bad that i dont think masssclaim is an awful idea rn?

I think bingle won’t be surprised

[teacher]

Dance for the cliff notes. I think I’d go

Egix>skit>you.

Tbh I think skit is slightly more likely to be scum than egix, but is a valuable asset to risk without, you know, actual information.

[teacher]

Bingle, want to back up the softing theory now? I had my own but want to see yours.

[teacher]

Also, same to volpe. In fact, I’d like volpes first.

[teacher]

Part of the reason I didn't want to go for duck was softing

So softing means playing within or meta to you? Cause I haven’t sent it used that way before. Have you used it that way in another game?

Softing to me means actively dropping hints. And I think this contradiction is worth exploring.

[teacher]

By the way, bingle, I’m ready for your supposed softz.

Pedit: thanks. Those I saw and kinda thought mason for reasons I’ve posted about tho that’s perhaps heavy handed

[teacher]

But it matters here because you were playing along with and adopted the wording of someone who is/was on the opposite side of the divide. It makes me more suspicious of you if that is not a way you have used the term before. You may not be interested in semantics, but since you made me have to out, you’ll understand if I stick with my own methods rather than yours.

[teacher]

that's really funny. it was exactly my thoughts after a50 wagon started forming. like I just forgot his presence at bit. But I thought about it, skimmed the iso, and was just not thrilled by it.

What is this replying to?

Went to iso Mena to see how long he’s been away and I don’t think this has been responded to.

I will vote in about 2 hours after I put my kids down and can do a count.

/outofgame: my kids just got lice for the second time this school year. And as a result they are lacking all hair. My wife’s agoing to kill me when she gets back from Swissland on Halloween

[teacher]

I’d rather the whooping crane, but will give

intent

-11hrs to give a confirmable time and allow shakeout.

[teacher]

I’d rather the whooping crane, but will give

intent

-11hrs to give a confirmable time and allow shakeout.

Caveat: I will be asleep in 11 hours. If there are things for me to respond to (like, specifically directed at me) please let me have until 3 hours before deadline to ensure I get to them.

I can do this.

[teacher]

VOTE: wooper

[teacher]

I elect not to answer skit.

[teacher]

Im not mech sort - see Newb 1959 (just ended, so couldnt talk before).

Im I have like 13 pasges to catchup on. Anyone want to give me the TL/DR?

[teacher]

If I see a majority of people wanting me to out my save as I skim back through, I will do.

[teacher]

@teach i guiltied you last night

[teacher]

Gotta do some mod stuff first, but Ill read up on today after that.

[teacher]

Well, if youre sticking by that claim your hardscumclaiming, and Im good getting lynched to prove it, so no.

As for being on NSG, why would I have docced her over other strong players I read more strongly. I think she kinda towntold but was in a mech scummy slot.

[teacher]

If you're scum you're going to have to explain in post or the dead thread why you picked doc as a fake-claim

Not scum.

[teacher]

Skit since youre here, have you shared the Bingle thing you wouldnt talk about yesterday?

[teacher]

Teacher if we already know you are doc, wtf is the point in hiding who you protected?

Scum cant get a better read on who Im feeling quite confident on?

[teacher]

I've got some bad news
I am not townreading volpe anymore

more accurately: if teacher is town volpe is almost certainly scum and it SUCKS

Can you walk this out.

[teacher]

Yeah.

No.

[teacher]

Qfl?

[teacher]

Scissors. Wooper is still scumming it up, with a side of reaction test to feel townie.

[teacher]

(@Mena, I do have a more recent scumgame now, having rolled twice on site).

[teacher]

yea, but its not apples-to-apples. For her to confidently call someone town against the run of play is a lot different than what it feels like you are describing -- going along with board consensus. The former (i.e., here) holds more weight for me. Im kinda sheeping it for the day.

[teacher]

Scissors. Wooper is still scumming it up, with a side of reaction test to feel townie.

Do you think wooper is the type of player who is likely to fake a reaction test as scum?

I dont know on generalities of RX-testing. I havent seen him do it (town or scum) before in so naked a fashion regardless. And I think he has a decent enough feel for me as a player (tend cold/analytical but willing to 1v1 argue on logic) that Im not the sort to slip in a reaction test, so I dont buy the explanation given for it. He has felt "off" to me most of the game.

I still think yesterday scum was on both sides of the (Bingle/Wooper/Me) (Skit/Volpe/NSG) discussion, and since I now know 2 of the 3 alignment in the former, Im pretty comfortable thinking he's scum here, and nothing he's done today takes him out of that narrative.

[teacher]

1 scum, and not sure at all which. Id personally lean Volpe (bad pushes and weird cycles of being a leader and disappearing, some of the engagement feels agenda-y), because most of what Skit has done has made more sense, but then I have the dead hand of bingle raising paranoia in my head. Id love a clear in there, because Im genuinely at a loss.

[teacher]

Me?

[teacher]

Im not SRing Volpe (why I say I genuinely cant pick). So I cant really answer the remaining questions if that makes sense.

Like, I feel like the cycle isnt being driven by real life, I think it is forced absences. and I cant come up with what they are looking for so cant give that a towny narrative. Bad push is why push through Bingle yesterday than go back to the duality they had wanted so much?

[teacher]

VC 1.17

teacher (4):

Volpe14

, NorwegianboyEE,

DrDolittle, Almost50

Wooper (3):

northsidegal, Wickedestjr, teacher

Bingle (3):

Wooper, skitter30, Egix96

skitter30 (2):

Bingle, pisskop

Almost50 (1):

Menalque

VC 1.20 (FINAL)

Bingle (7) LYNCH:

skitter30, Egix96,

DrDolittle, Volpe14, Almost50,

Wooper, pisskop

Wooper (4):

northsidegal, Wickedestjr, teacher, Bingle

Almost50 (1):

Menalque

Egix96 (1):

NorwegianboyEE

Like I dont see how this flip isnt town-indicative for me, yet nobody has done that kind of VCA. Then it makes me go back to the wooper wagon, and see two known!town (+me) on it, and that makes me think scum. I genuinely just dont see that kind of depth of analysis from Volpe, who certainly has been putting the time in -- so it makes me wonder if it is misspent.

PEDIT: On the both sides scum, thats a gut read. I think town was very successfully divided yesterday, with multiple potential deepwolves setting up as alternates. Re Egix, Im lazy deadsheeping and not worrying about them today.

[teacher]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

[teacher]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

possibility you succeeded and we're in mb

True, but if I saved the SK's shot, its still not alignment telling, ya? What does town get? (Scum get to know who they have to push at somepoint). Im going to need a logical explanation of why +EV, not just throwing spaghetti at a wall.

[teacher]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

If you don't, some crazy monkey may think you're a Mafia/SK who shot someone NSG was protecting.

I dont much care about Crazy monkeys, tbh.

Look, fmpov, keeping it close and crumbing it if Im killed are +EV to outting it now. If I out it now, scum has better information to select a NK and to sort the power would be a threat to their plans. On the flip side, outing doesnt help town, because its NAI for the target - just reflects my reads. I think Im right on this, and havent yet seen someone present an actual argument to the other side, other than scumreading me, and thats ...... not persuasive.

[teacher]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

possibility you succeeded and we're in mb

True, but if I saved the SK's shot, its still not alignment telling, ya? What does town get? (Scum get to know who they have to push at somepoint). Im going to need a logical explanation of why +EV, not just throwing spaghetti at a wall.

sorry mathematics have never interested me much (i'm preparing myself to be chased out of the community)

look idk
if there's a clear out there 1-3 scum know about it and we don't
if there isn't a clear it doesn't really matter

it strikes me as a good idea but if you passionately disagree i don't really care

But what provides any indication that anyone I would have targeted is a clear? Like there’s the 50% chance we just have scum (so no clear at all), plus the 50% of the serial killer world where I would have saved the sk’s target rather than scums. The short version is that in most worlds my would be healed does not actually provide helpful info to town, weighed against ALL worlds where knowing who I would target helps scum plan.

So I do disagree (I don’t know about passionately, since I’m more than open to being convinced, I just haven’t been yet).

[teacher]

So what has your lurking revealed?

[teacher]

Why are we not lynching wooper again?

[teacher]

Like, I feel like the cycle isnt being driven by real life, I think it is forced absences.

Um why do you think it's forced absences and not real life?

You realize this wasn’t about you right? I think yours was in fact real life. As for about Volpe, just the way the downtime’s were or weren’t being talked about by himself made it feel more tactical and less regretfully forced upon him.

[teacher]

VOTE: wooper

I think the vcs off btw.

Fixed.

[teacher]

Oh so it’s not about other people putting stock into her reads in a way you find weird? That was the vibe I was getting

I guess you became active after nsg stopped?

For like an hour?

[teacher]

Fmpov this game makes little sense if Teach is town.
As in, I can't really imagine a three-person maf team without him on it.

I mean D1 I felt like the inevitable lynch as we dribbled down to deadline before I claimed. Are you really telling me I’m the easiest player to pair? Easier than PK or A50? That makes like no sense.

[teacher]

VOTE: teacher

Whether it's 3 or 4 on Woop, that's still too many.

his alignment is confirmed via massclaim
it's an open thing

@teacher we're not lynching me because I'm town. if you are town and don't like my pk vote find a better target for me plsssssss

What do you think of wickedest? (To be clear, I’m not proposing that as a compliment, this is an unrelated question)

[teacher]

Compromise*

[teacher]

I kinda stopped scumreading him holistically when bungle greenflipped. I'm fine w waiting for him and treating him as town for now

If you think that and think I’m mechtown, then you can see why I won’t be voting with you - your end of day wagon yesterday was entirely town.

[teacher]

Like, I feel like the cycle isnt being driven by real life, I think it is forced absences.

Um why do you think it's forced absences and not real life?

You realize this wasn’t about you right? I think yours was in fact real life. As for about Volpe, just the way the downtime’s were or weren’t being talked about by himself made it feel more tactical and less regretfully forced upon him.

Yes i know

I dont get why you're saying it feels tactical tho

You've made such a big thing about not doubting vla before that i'm kinda confused why you're taking this tack here

But that’s just exactly it, and what makes it different form you. He didn’t declare vLa, at least that I noted. He just cycled super active to lurk. So it felt tactical rather than other obligation driven ( as shown by later response, that was wrong, but it was my feel).

[teacher]

But that’s just exactly it, and what makes it different form you. He didn’t declare vLa, at least that I noted. He just cycled super active to lurk. So it felt tactical rather than other obligation driven ( as shown by later response, that was wrong, but it was my feel).

I'm p sure in some instances he declared vla and in other instances declared he was going to lurk

For the latter instances, why is that scummy?

Gross. Don’t put words in my mouth. I very specifically said it was not scummy in the post you used to start this conversation, yet omitted from this one.

Im not SRing Volpe (why I say I genuinely cant pick). So I cant really answer the remaining questions if that makes sense.

Like, I feel like the cycle isnt being driven by real life, I think it is forced absences. and I cant come up with what they are looking for so cant give that a towny narrative

It is something that was pinging me, but not with a scumflavor just as a what’s going on thought.

[teacher]

How you feel about wooper is how I feel about A50 but I can comp there later if need be.

[teacher]

Okay why do you wanna do wooper first? Clearly, a wooper wagon is possible and will stay around, even if it’s not getting super high

Because this.

I feel like he

should

have been the compromise yesterday from how people were approaching his slot, but somehow wasn’t, in a way that doesn’t feel natural looking back. When he has been the main wagon, the game has stalled — twice. Because wagon analysis makes me feel more confident. Because he has already hardclaimed vt. Because I know him better and he is off meta.

In short, I’m willing to go A50 for null/likely to be scum, but see more risk there and more reward in wooper. But like I said I’m not opposed to that wagon.

[teacher]

I still dont like this line of questioning from you tho @teacher

What questioning? I was talking about it because I was asked a question. I didn’t question it or even bring it up of my own initiative.

Could you answer 3652

[teacher]

VOTE: a50

Tbh, I kinda thought I have been hardpushing wooper. But blah, sure.

[teacher]

VC 2.3

Wooper (4):

teacher, Volpe14, Almost50, Menalque

Almost50 (2):

, DrDolittle, Wooper

skitter30 (1):

pisskop

Not Voting:

Egix96, Wickedestjr, skitter30, NorwegianboyEE

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-02 23:15:42)

+ Mena + me
@ skit.

[teacher]

+ norway so 5

[teacher]

UNVOTE:

Mobile but too early for L-1 esp w wicked.

[teacher]

Sigh

Lol.

[teacher]

VOTE: wooper

[teacher]

either that or all three scum are not reading, which makes the team a50, pisskop (who didnt know nsg was dead) and egix probably

no wicked you stated very clearly that your guilty was a joke after that guilty post.

And I think scum wouldnt miss it since it was so prominent.

which makes me believe more likely that scum is on those that are
"wicked is doing a guity" as a reaction test type of people

than

a50's "why are we not doing wicked's guilty first" or "what wicked has a guilty" people

Idk if im explaining clearly

FWIW I don’t think 3467 was all that prominent - I missed it (had assumed that’s why the prodging) - and even when going back after hearing it was called out I kinda skimmed it at first. The response to a second quote kinda nests it away.

[teacher]

Wouldn’t that require selfvoting?

Can you explain why you aren’t interested in wooper?

[teacher]

Blah. Wooper.

[teacher]

Well A50 posted some and I grew some conviction in my own reads. I’m willing to compromise but I like wooper more so not yet ready to compromise rather than push my views.

@skit, she was consistent in having wooper below me.

[teacher]

Yea, but I still kinda fell off D2 even though I didn’t want to. Appreciate it.

[teacher]

I gotta be honest, I’m paranoid of skit right now. I’ve seen scum her give more townreads than she should, and there is like no reason for her to think I’m scum here. I know I was the consensus D1 (which in itself should tell her something since my wagon wound up on town) but also the fact that her ONLY on wagon scumread is the hammer. This isn’t how I’ve seen you before.

[teacher]

@teacher i'm a tiny bit paranoid of skitter PoEing so assertively but still think she's exhibited skills likely outside her scumrange

I used paranoia for a reason - I’m still TLing her, but I wouldn’t mind hearing your thoughts walked out a bit on this.

[teacher]

@woop, to be clear I was talking about Skitter skills not NSG reads.

[teacher]

Not to butt in but how can I do that if you find the vca dubious and can’t/won’t discuss why you scumread me.

[teacher]

I mean, by how you normally measure me I’ve stayed active and engaged in solving all the way through, though that measure I think matters less now. I don’t know what your issues are so I can’t really respond to them, ya?

[teacher]

Could you answer 3652

In other words, this was exactly what 3800 says was lacking, no?

[teacher]

Then the players in red switch over to bingle (+wooper) who flips green

One key difference. The orange players didn’t switch to wooper, who was the alternate consensus before me. They all switched over that alternat consensus (wooper) to go to a new target (bingle), which makes me think the alternate consensus was distancing.

I disagree that my narrative depends on knowing my alignment, though I agree it adds significant weight. For me, when the designated lynch me (fails) and most of that wagon winds up on town, it’s a good sign that scum was on both wagons. Sure, distancing is a thing so it could be scum was on scum!me’s wagon, but that’s the less likely explanation than scum was on town!me’s wagon and went to the next consensus target. So I think the fact that my wagon basically all ended on town is town indicative, and I don’t get why that’s dubious?

[teacher]

A50, whom I voted earlier? Yea. I said he was “null/likely to be scum” in 3675 - implicitly because of the same vca. Does that help on this point, or 2809 on narrative or the other thing?

[teacher]

A50, whom I voted earlier? Yea. I said he was “null/likely to be scum” in 3675 - implicitly because of the same vca. Does that help on this point, or 2809 on narrative or the other thing?

I was talking about volpe and ddl, and if you scumread all three this is ultimately leading up to: why do all three scum vote together to try to lynch you (and then jingle when you claimed)

And if you dont i dont understand your point or why it points to town!you

The answer is no, I don’t. I don’t think there’s more than 1.2 in those 3. But I don’t see why one isn’t enough - wooper was clearly going to vote for me and I wouldn’t expect more than two scum to be on the lynch. Like you haven’t disputed the logic, other than to say you haven’t seen it before. Tell me why it’s wrong?

[teacher]

Sigh.

[teacher]

In your defense I don’t have an example in mind either, just logic (and sometimes that can be a bit moonbatty, which is why I was inviting an explanation for the doubts).

[teacher]

A50, why’s you decide to out the crumb?

[teacher]

Yoink.

[teacher]

I don’t know where you’re getting the no cop thing but otherwise ya.

[teacher]

I’m not that mechanically into the setup but I think ppl said there’s a min of 3, though I think there’s an outside chance of 2 if my count is right.

[teacher]

Sigh.

[teacher]

I AM A VANILLA TOWNIE

[teacher]

Can we lynch this now?

[teacher]

I wish I could see inside nsg’s head on egix. I’m deadsheeping, but I just did sort by activity and there’s less there than a player who left the game eleven days ago.

[teacher]

Okay why do you wanna do wooper first? Clearly, a wooper wagon is possible and will stay around, even if it’s not getting super high

Because this.

I feel like he

should

have been the compromise yesterday from how people were approaching his slot, but somehow wasn’t, in a way that doesn’t feel natural looking back. When he has been the main wagon, the game has stalled — twice. Because wagon analysis makes me feel more confident. Because he has already hardclaimed vt. Because I know him better and he is off meta. .

1. The vca from town!me’s perspective.
2. That he was in the pool all day yesterday but never the main/only show other than when it stalled.
3. That he’s off meta
4. Dead sheep NSG.

Take your pick? Or better, why isn’t he?

[teacher]

*^says the person with the highest postcount in the game who is singlehandedlg responsible for 25 of those pages.

[teacher]

@mena, why not the rubber ducky?

[teacher]

Skit, why do you have no interest in woop?

I just can’t see what he’s down that are causing this much resistance

pS: going to the baseball game tonight!!!!

[teacher]

Very well played. I will have more comments when I’m by a computer (date night tonight), but Mebas range really threw me the most/was my hardest error. I should have gone with the nom/2080 gut read of his 1v1, but read too much into him having been on tilt before too (at town). Sorry for the fakeclaim - I thought I could trade on my meta of never doing it and thought it would put team dynamics, but I k ow that can turn people off the game so on reconsideration I wouldn’t. I do agree this is a textbook on misdirection, especially off volpe slot. Again, more later but thanks all.