Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[skitter30]

that's where the tunnel came from @teacher, and why i wouldn't really explain it

i think today is massclaim day

[skitter30]

i'm p sure there isn't an sk so mylo

[skitter30]

ok

i don't claim to have perfect reads, but yeah they've been p bad this game

i can't be groupscum, if you want to push me as sk have fun but it's suboptimal to do that today so

i'm not really like ~into~ mafia today due to irl stuff but we can bicker more about it later if you like

[skitter30]

also when we massclaim i'll say some more stuff

[skitter30]

if that's true we're nearly on auto i think

[skitter30]

the doc, volpe, tw

i'm vig (which can be construed as sk, whatever)

and then 4 other players

[skitter30]

i guess i would start with wicked (?) idk

i'm lowky paranoid of a fake cop but i think we need to have more prs so

[skitter30]

he's in the four other players

i'm talking about the fact that we need to have a doctor given that nsg flipped 1s doc

i'm like 95% certain i know who it is too; i've known for a while

[skitter30]

i guess i'm the only crazy person who claims innos as cop

@ddl i'm not positive it's correct to out that just yet (?)

[skitter30]

i guess i'm the only crazy person who claims innos as cop

as scum faking cop, i meant to say

[skitter30]

i mean i guess he drew the nk but yeah it made things p confusing

like i said that's why i was tunneling yesterday, i was p sure he was lying

[skitter30]

No more one claims yet.

Egix, claim.

Doctor

and i knew this like 100 pages ago
and i'm p sure egix knew this too

[skitter30]

be back soon

[skitter30]

oh fuck i just realized something

that's what this was ^^^

[skitter30]

your crumb was p good.

i thought jingle saw it too and why i strongly objected to him pushing egix; i thought he'd seen the crumb and was pushing egix anywyas

and that's why i was sus of teacher yesterday because i was like 95% sure he was lying

[skitter30]

ddl's the towniest of you 4 btw

[skitter30]

right i forgot about that

[skitter30]

Sigh, I’m vig, A50 was my shot

Skitt scum

VOTE: skitt

VOTE: menalque

[skitter30]

let's see if no one cc because I really think you might be scum

he has a crumb that i found the first time you tried to death-tunnel him

and that's why i kept trying to like stave off the egix wagon for the past 100 pages

egix eventually caught on that i knew, i think

[skitter30]

Oh, and I’m 1-shot

Assuming skitt didn’t say because she wanted to decide whether to claim full or not

1s

[skitter30]

i'm not really sure why you think this was a good idea, but ok

[skitter30]

i think scum is guaranteed to have a gf so tw isn't actually clear here

[skitter30]

i mean that's patently false from my pov so uh

[skitter30]

Egix why are you voting Pisskop?

Sheeping my TRs, mainly

oh i thought by here you knew that i knew ^

i wouldn't be townreading you here if i didn't see the crumb

[skitter30]

i mean that's patently false from my pov so uh

k

idk you're a lot ballsier than i would have expected as scum, but now i know i guess

[skitter30]

um, explain that timeline again

[skitter30]

you think i just posted

'lol i knew something' and randomly at some later point decided that the something was that egix was doc ?

@menalque

[skitter30]

and when did i figure out egix was the doc

[skitter30]

and i kill teacher because ...

[skitter30]

and i kill teacher because ...

i know that egix is the doc and i'm blocking him with the rb and i very clearly think teacher is lying so i kill him because ...

[skitter30]

can you at least come up with a plan that doesn't involve me doing things that aren't ridiculously suboptimal, ty

[skitter30]

which scumteam here do you think does that even when ~i found the doc 100 pages ago~ and i ~obviously believe teacher isn't a pr~

like ...

[skitter30]

like i believe that scum!me wouldn't kill egix, sure, i literally just did the equivalent in my most recent scumgame

but why on earth do i then kill teacher of all people

[skitter30]

idk what you're asking but i would in fact rb egix and not nk if i thought that was beneficial

but then if i was doing that nk'ing teacher would be incredibly idiotic (esp since i know he's town and lying !!! i could just mislynch him then today)

like the two actions don't make sense together

[skitter30]

p-edit: because you would know that Egix is doc and would able to claim that you wouldn't kill teach?

i don't really make wifom-y kills just to say 'why would i do that'

they usually have some purpose (i.e. they're a pr and i want them gone; i don't wnat to deal with town!them as scum; i don't think i can keep the pocket up etc)

but there's no reason to make that nk knowing that egix is the doc, and i wouldn't do it; like if you think i'm good enough to rb egix instead of killing him give me enough credit to set up teacher as today's mislynch

[skitter30]

don't tell me on the one hand i'm some sort of mastermind to find the doc and pocket him and not kill him but on the other hand am dumb enough to kill the game-ending mislynch

[skitter30]

this probably would have gone better for you if you'd claimed the teacher nk, i guess

[skitter30]

yep. too late now tho, you're locked in the a50 claim so

[skitter30]

...

[skitter30]

If I hadn’t shot/if there was no vig then this let you move off your TR on me naturally after mislynching wooper today

Where you could then 1v1 me I think in 7p lylo

And I think prob you knew I’d be getting to a SR of you after wooper also flipped green

i don't even get this

[skitter30]

wicked's online

[skitter30]

um i'm p sure that just leads to you or egix dying, with the other being rb'd

[skitter30]

what the hell

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

menalque just unvote while we try to sort out which of this should be sorted out first

[skitter30]

meh no lynching is probably the right answer?

[skitter30]

you think they kill you/ddl?


idk if that's the right answer, i'm thinking aloud

[skitter30]

i mean i was wondeirng if there was a chance that you were full since there's absolutely no way you can be 1s here

i don't know if i believe you but

who did you vig n1

also if you're full you know there has to be a 1s vig like ...

[skitter30]

ok i think i don't believe you ?

[skitter30]

apparently

[skitter30]

ok i think i don't believe you ?

no, i don't because if you were full vig you'd believe me saying i could have shot a50, there's no reason for you to take that as a scumclaim

[skitter30]

M

orning.

E

veryone having fun?

D

olittle, hi.

I

hope we're both town this time.

C

nine plus plus hype!

[skitter30]

Also why would I have to know there’s a 1s vig?

... did you not read the setup

[skitter30]

oh nm

i thought vv was vig + 1s vig

so you think we're 3 v's ...

so what, ddvvvcc ???

[skitter30]

now idk

[skitter30]

i was the a50 shot
i'm probably voting you today @ducky
my reads have also been dead-wrong so i need to reset p heavily, i think

i was p sure teacher was lying about being a doctor, which is why i was scumreading him

someone get me a emoji the size of the Eiffel Tower

Menalque you're the closest could you zip down to Paris for me

do tell

[skitter30]

i'm paranoid

[skitter30]

or i get paranoid, whatever

[skitter30]

like i don't think someone is town just because they're a cop claiming innos ...

[skitter30]

ddl's the towniest of you 4 btw

Towncase him for me 200 words or less
He was on d1 for sure so interested how your read developed.

making cogent observations about the gamestate in real time that indicated he was thinking about the game from a town perspective

22 words, yay

[skitter30]

you realize it's functionally irrelevant rn because there's about five people that need to be sorted before him, right?

[skitter30]

actually i'll be back later, remind me and i'll do it tonight

[skitter30]

no

ducky just fullclaim now please

i will do the ddl thing but later tonight when i have more patience for it

[skitter30]

can you at least come up with a plan that doesn't involve me doing things that aren't ridiculously suboptimal, ty

this is a bit creepy

you keep drawing attention to knowing who the doc was as well which makes me directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

you're endgame scum skitter. you make clever plays. stop arguing in bad faith; the doc thing isn't something you wouldn't do as scum. :/

I admitted to doing it as scum, you literally just saw me doing the equivalent

My point is why the fuck do i nk teacher as scum here

[skitter30]

ash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

Also this isnt fair

[skitter30]

like i believe that scum!me wouldn't kill egix, sure, i literally just did the equivalent in my most recent scumgame

but why on earth do i then kill teacher of all people

teacher is always a classy kill there. possibility of >1 doc and he's telling the truth; if he is fakeclaiming then wifom and you're wking a conftown doctor going into lylo

t-chizzle is a perfect nk

No

I mislynch teacher in this scenario to win

[skitter30]

Yes but i wouldnt know that teacher is cleared, i found that out half an hour ago ...

I think ur scum

[skitter30]

You can be scum with either claim

[skitter30]

ash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

Also this isnt fair

the world isn't fair. you can still be town here. we just need a better argument than something which is not only within your scumrange, but aligns with your scum m.o. really well.

I'm saying that you saying that egix being alive at lylo means i'm scum isnt a fair statement or an argument in good faith, because it allows you to spin the current situation however you like

[skitter30]

still find it mind blowing you're struggling so much to treat me as cleared when I literally am unless you assume volpe is scum

Do gf's not exist in your world or

[skitter30]

directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

What does this statement mean then

[skitter30]

Again i dont do dumb things as scum

I absolutely would keep egix alive if i thought it was useful

I absolutely wouldnt nk teacher then because that would defeat the purpose od keeping egix alive

[skitter30]

Having a convenient story about "oh i always townread our doctor Egix!" to utilize.

Because i've been sitting on this for like three weeks now ...

[skitter30]

Like do you have any idea how frustrating it is to stave off the mislynch like 5 different times without being able to say why ...

I've been waiting for massclaim like forever

[skitter30]

Again i dont do dumb things as scum

I absolutely would keep egix alive if i thought it was useful

I absolutely wouldnt nk teacher then because that would defeat the purpose od keeping egix alive

I think we need to resort to sorting you via gameplay rather than nka/naa because you are capable of setting up nka/naa plays which endgame you as scum.

not going to say this again; lay off the wifom. you're disturbing the gamestate when you could be finding scums with us.

Yes, you ...

[skitter30]

Maybe she's not Paragon for nothing...

I really don't search for crumbs unless I'm scum tbh

I wasnt but the first time you cased egix i was like ok i'll look at his iso and it just kinda popped out, that's when i realized he's doc and that the game was a little about to become ... frustrating

[skitter30]

Yes, you ...

I'm very high probability cleared and off the table so find actual scum

if you flatly refuse to believe that I'm unlynchable: find my buddies

this is easy, no need for rhetoric and wifom

No there'a a guily on you

Tbf i dont know it's real but you cant claim you're cleared because of volpe (when there'a a gf no less) but ignote wicked

[skitter30]

directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

What does this statement mean then

[skitter30]

VC 3.1

Wickedestjr (1):

Volpe14

Wooper (1):

Wickedestjr

Not Voting:

skitter30, Wooper, Menalque, Egix96, NorwegianboyEE, DrDolittle

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-10 14:37:08)

directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

What does this statement mean then

it's not something people with cognisance of your meta should treat as AI and calling it out as strongly town indicative isn't valuable. not sure if disingenuous or earnest but yeah.

why did you hold your shot n1?

I'm not saying it should be read as strongly town indicative, but i object to you saying that the chance of egix being alibe in lylo means i cant be town

[skitter30]

Also because there wasnt really anyone i wanted to shoot

[skitter30]

I am kinda concerned that this is volpe, wooper scum gambiting

I'm nervous of this too

[skitter30]

I'm not saying it should be read as strongly town indicative, but i object to you saying that the chance of egix being alibe in lylo means i cant be town

=> might have been a better representation? I'm saying it doesn't equal you being town. it doesn't explicitly mean you're town at all

... i never said it did
I'm saying it doesnt i'm scum either, which is what i read that as

[skitter30]

I'd remove SK setups as a matter of policy

Ya i really dont think there's an sk

[skitter30]

I think ddl is on the right track but i want to just double check the logic later

[skitter30]

I think all 3 scum are in {wicked, wooper, nor, volpe}, with an outside fjchance of menalque, who i actually kinda think is town, with the caveat that wicked and volpe arent scum together

If tw is (not gf) scum wicked isnt as well, if tw is gf or town volpe is town but menalque has to be scum or something (?)

I need to think about this more

[skitter30]

Because this is a bizarre af plan to do on purpose together

[skitter30]

I dont think scum!menalque thinks it's a good idea to cc me here

[skitter30]

its the same logic as that A50 and Wooper cant both be cops that Volpe pushed out.

It's not a mechanical thing, i just dont think he does it as scum

[skitter30]

its the same logic as that A50 and Wooper cant both be cops that Volpe pushed out.

It's not a mechanical thing, i just dont think he does it as scum

Like it just goes against how i view him as a player in relation to the last several games we've played

[skitter30]

I am actually cool with a ducky lynch

[skitter30]

spicy take
excessive stubbornness is a scumtell for both skitter and volpe

this isn't true and i'm p sure you know it ...

[skitter30]

scum!Skitt doesn't really make sense here but SK!Skitt does with that "let's lynch wooper?"

i really don't think he's town

[skitter30]

yes but i don't know how to sort out the mess that is all of these pr claims and i think he's scum

[skitter30]

i don't know rn

probably wicked but that doesn't make tw town really

[skitter30]

Ok, why should i think ur town here

[skitter30]

spicy take
excessive stubbornness is a scumtell for both skitter and volpe

this isn't true and i'm p sure you know it ...

Like you keep throwing out things like this ...

[skitter30]

like

I'm sorry guys I understand what you're saying but I'm not ignoring confscum wicked here to go for wooper and risk loosing the game

don't forget that the rest of us aren't playing the game from ur pov

[skitter30]

do we assume that one of the cop claims is true at this point ?

[skitter30]

by virtue of what we have flipped we must have at least DDV, right?

theortetically the cops can both be fake, so because of DDV we must be in one of the following

Spoiler:

TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker

TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer

TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer

0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

[skitter30]

ya let me go through the setup a bit i'm not like ~positive~ and i want to fact-check

[skitter30]

ok i think for now i'm going to assume one of the cops exist

that would put us in CCDDV (or) CCDDVV

which means the only possibilities are:

TT - goon, rb, gf
T - goon, rb, gf, sk
0 - goon, rb, gf

if we live in CCDDVV ... there has to be an sk by virtue of the setup. there is no such evidence of such sk existing (unless we want to say that literally none of thier kill attempts are visible)

so i don't think we live in CCDDVV ... which would mean menalque is lying, i think (?)

i'm not sure this holds from everyone's pov, it holds from pov i think

[skitter30]

never mind i did this wrong again, sorry

it's either DDV or DDVVV at minimum

the question is whether it's DDVCC or DDVVVCC

pedit yeah i just realized again

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

we must have at least DDV

which means we can only have the following:

TTTT - 2 goons + rb
TTT - 2 goons + rb + sk
TT - goon + rb + gf
T - goon + rb + gf + sk
0 - goon + rb + gf

====

TTTT. only option is DDV.
---> which would mean menalque is lying, as are both cops. i'm telling the truth

TTT. options are DDVV or DDCC.
--->if DDCC one cop is lying, one of me and menalque is sk, and the other is lol-cc'ing. i think we can pretty much rule this one out objectively because that would entail an sk claiming to be vig and someone else randomly claiming extra nks too. it would mean both me and memalque are lying. impossible from my pov
---> if DDVV both cops are lying, as am i. menalque is telling the truth.

TT. option is DDCCV
---> me and one of the cops are telling the truth. menalque is lying.

T. options are DDCCVV
----> from my pov this is objectively impossible. from everyone else's pov i'm the sk in this universe, and one of the cops are lying

0. options are DDCCVVV
----> me and menalque are both telling the truth, one of the cops are lying

i think this covers all the scenarios (?)

so we know that there are 3 scum, and 4 flipped vt.

from my pov i think an sk is impossible; i don't think menalque can be sk

so, there are 3 scum + 10 town (or 9 town + sk that i think has to be me)
and there are 4 flipped vts

i'm switching to my pov now.

possible scenarios (from my pov):
----> DDV. 3 pr + 3 scum + 4 vts = 3 vts which actually adds up with what we have. scum have to be exactly {volpe, wicked, menalque}
----> DDCCV. 4 pr + 3 scum + 4vts = 2 vts. 1 scum in {ddl, wooper, nor}, menalque is scum, 1 scum in {volpe, wicked}
----> DDCCVVV. 5 pr + 3 scum + 4 vts = 1 vt. two scum in {ddl, wooper, nor}, and 1 scum in {volpe, wicked}

ok this is where i'm at ^^^

[skitter30]

i can't shoot anymore

[skitter30]

was that at me?

no idea rn

if both the cops are lying menalque has to be too, nad menalque can't be sk from my pov

[skitter30]

2/3 of the universes i live in he is, yeah

his scumrange is ridiculously wider than i thought it was tho

i don't think he's scum on play but mechanically i am kinda wondering

[skitter30]

mechanically there has to be groupscum in wicked/volpe (or at least there is from my pov ... i don't know if this holds for everyone)

[skitter30]

fiar enough. do you know what the odds are by any chance?

[skitter30]

there's 13 players.

if we live in DDV there's 3 scum, 3 prs, and 4 flipped vts.

that means there has to be 3 vts left to add up to 13.
(i guess i'm making a semi-unreasonable assumption that there isn't a vt in menalque/wicked/volpe)

[skitter30]

y?

[skitter30]

possible scenarios (from my pov):
----> DDV. 3 pr + 3 scum + 4 vts = 3 vts which actually adds up with what we have. scum have to be exactly {volpe, wicked, menalque}
----> DDCCV. 4 pr + 3 scum + 4vts = 2 vts. 1 scum in {ddl, wooper, nor}, menalque is scum, 1 scum in {volpe, wicked}
----> DDVVV. 4 pr + 3 scum + 4vts = 2 vt. 1 scum {ddl, wooper, nor}, 2 scum in {volpe,wicked}
----> DDCCVVV. 5 pr + 3 scum + 4 vts = 1 vt. two scum in {ddl, wooper, nor}, and 1 scum in {volpe, wicked}

ok this is where i'm at ^^^

@ddl you're right, updated

[skitter30]

i'm not sure it's the same pov from vts, tbf

[skitter30]

T. options are DDCCVV
----> from my pov this is objectively impossible. from everyone else's pov i'm the sk in this universe, and one of the cops are lying

well in this universe menalque is town (and thus possible for vts)
but it's impossible from my pov so i'm ignoring it when i write things like 'the setup from my pov'

[skitter30]

i think u are too but i'm not sure where exactly

[skitter30]

I think in every theory though from anyone pov

Egix is conftown

There's exactly 0 arguing in that.

Just in case scum gets in despair here and tries to pedal some kind of bs here.

just pointing out that i've been saying this for literally weeks

[skitter30]

i think i can objectively only be scum here (i think ?)
so having menalque shoot me (i.e. as opposed to groupscum) is kinda dumb
esp since i theoretically can be bp ...

[skitter30]

* i can objectively only be sk here i think

[skitter30]

We're like

lynching wicked

and having mena shoot skitt

what could go wrong..?

um ...
these suggestions are neither good nor townie at this time

[skitter30]

I believe wicked over volpe rn, i think

[skitter30]

just a side note skitter has done no skittering™ in this xylo and has instead been around in realtime to shade slots she has already pegged as scum. she is busy irl I believe, so this isn't directly AI. but be very wary of this. if you watch a couple of skitter lylos her stylistic difference leaps off the page.

I've imitated town!skitter lylos a few times and have never lost off them; either she's changed unrecognisably or she is actively not towntelling

Um ...

[skitter30]

There's literally no way for me to be groupscum here, objectively ...

[skitter30]

We're lynching Wicked today.

ffs.

Volpe you're making very scummy suggestions that mechanically probably end the game (even if you're town i think)

[skitter30]

Like i get from your pov he's confscum but that doesnt help me exactly

[skitter30]

There's literally no way for me to be groupscum here, objectively ...

hit me with it I'm ready

There's like six pages of math proving it not from my pov

[skitter30]

Like i get it's convenient to ignore it but you're fearmongering impossibilities

[skitter30]

Suggesting that menalque vig me ...

[skitter30]

TTTT. only option is DDV.
---> which would mean menalque is lying, as are both cops. i'm telling the truth

TTT. options are DDVV or DDCC.
--->if DDCC one cop is lying, one of me and menalque is sk, and the other is lol-cc'ing. i think we can pretty much rule this one out objectively because that would entail an sk claiming to be vig and someone else randomly claiming extra nks too. it would mean both me and memalque are lying. impossible from my pov
---> if DDVV both cops are lying, as am i. menalque is telling the truth.

TT. option is DDCCV or DDVVV
---> ddccv. me and one of the cops are telling the truth. menalque is lying.
---> ddvvv. Both cops are lying and me and menalque are telling the truth

T. options are DDCCVV
----> from my pov this is objectively impossible. from everyone else's pov i'm the sk in this universe, and one of the cops are lying

0. options are DDCCVVV
----> me and menalque are both telling the truth, one of the cops are lying

i think this covers all the scenarios (?)

[skitter30]

These are the only scrnarios i think ^

[skitter30]

I'm explicitly not TR'ing skitt anymore.

That's convenient, i dont tr u either

[skitter30]

think the last part is the least interesting

I'll need an eli5 and I'm still holstering my right to just go "THIS IS BORING" and ask to just sort you via play anyway

Ok and i think you ignoring mechanics to support your narrative is scummy, your point

[skitter30]

lol

that's like

akin to a scumclaim imo

you're clearly doing the town suboptimal thing here and turned on me when I said that mena should vig you

Explain what i'm doing that's suboptimal

[skitter30]

sorry what is it that makes menaphos the liar and you telling the truth in the situations you've posted there

The number of v's in a given situation

If we're in DDV menalque is lying because there arent more V's.

If we're in DDVV i am because there are too many

Like it's objective and not readsbased

[skitter30]

I feel like just placing my vote now.
VOTE: Wickedestjr
L-2

Please dont

[skitter30]

She was also trusting me more than wicked until I said "Mena should vig skitt"

Cuz it was a scummy thing to say

[skitter30]

you're tunnelling in lylo: this isn't town!skitter m.o. :/

I have some objections to the tack you're taking but that's going to have to wait till postgame, esp if you're scum

I havent had the energy/wherewithall/mental capacity to reread like that yet

I'm nominally at work, i'll be back later if the game hasnt ended, i guess

[skitter30]

sorry what is it that makes menaphos the liar and you telling the truth in the situations you've posted there

The number of v's in a given situation

If we're in DDV menalque is lying because there arent more V's.

If we're in DDVV i am because there are too many

Like it's objective and not readsbased

I still don't really understand the relevancy of this sorry, like what's the functional difference between your claim and Mena's in this situation and why does it apply to those setup variations?

I feel like you're playing dumb

I also feel like i cant respond to everything you're saying rn cuz i'm at work

[skitter30]

Mechanical tl;dr here for everyone:

skitt is unlikely mafia if we consider teacher was nk'ed by mafia because she knew that egix was the doctor therefore he would get counterclaimed today

skitt can completely be sk and turned against me when I said mena should vig her even though she said mena was likely lying

there you go?

Not exactly but i dont havr time to reexplain rn

Later

[skitter30]

just a side note skitter has done no skittering™ in this xylo and has instead been around in realtime to shade slots she has already pegged as scum. she is busy irl I believe, so this isn't directly AI. but be very wary of this. if you watch a couple of skitter lylos her stylistic difference leaps off the page.

I've imitated town!skitter lylos a few times and have never lost off them; either she's changed unrecognisably or she is actively not towntelling

Um ...

i basically read this as you shading me for not doing my normal lylo reread thing, which is true, but:

a) as i kinda announced at daystart, i don't have the mental capicity for this rn
b) this game is like 200 pages long
c) you've seen me do exactly this before {the boon series game that you and something_smart modded where creature was the last scum; it had me, ank, ausuka, creature, xtoxm, and some other people in it}

and i find this to be a little um

[skitter30]

I believe wicked over volpe rn, i think

why?

If wooper is godfather good, but we risk losing the game here and I can't believe that you would rather believe wicked instead of me that has been towny this entire game?

like, I think you're either getting confbiased or you might be some kind of scum tbh

you sound like you're in cahoots with wooper rn

you're making it seem like i'm ridiculous for wanting to try to sort this out, and from your pov that might be true, but it isn't from *mine* and you're not doing anything to explain why i should believe you over wooper, but are freaking out every time i question you

[skitter30]

he fact she can't analyse this situation open-mindedly and accepts the unbelievable claim because it operates within her agenda is a scumtell.

i don't know why you're accusing me of this given that this is no way chracterizes my play here

[skitter30]

There's literally no way for me to be groupscum here, objectively ...

hit me with it I'm ready

There's like six pages of math proving it not from my pov

can you give me a tl;dr why it makes you mechtown?
I signed up for the list, solving this setup doesn't interest me very much unless no one else wants to do it :/

again, there's several pages of math explainign how it's pretty much impossible for me to groupscum

i'm sorry that it's inconvenient for you to read through it (or even to try to understand the summary), but you're pushing things that are objectively impossible

and the fact that you won't even try to understand this is scummy

[skitter30]

I feel like just placing my vote now.
VOTE: Wickedestjr
L-2

i think nor is scum with tw

i think it's nor/tw/{volpe/wicked} depending on if tw is a gf

[skitter30]

Mechanical tl;dr here for everyone:

skitt is unlikely mafia if we consider teacher was nk'ed by mafia because she knew that egix was the doctor therefore he would get counterclaimed today

skitt can completely be sk and turned against me when I said mena should vig her even though she said mena was likely lying

there you go?

this isn't mechanical, this is play based

given the possible setups we live in there's pretty much no setup where i can be scum, i can only be sk

i've quoted this already, but if i need to go through it again i will

stop making scummy suggestions if you don't want to be scumread

also from my pov mena isn't especially likely to be lying, and he can't be sk

[skitter30]

Volpe fmpov is pretty damn towny; the only reason I can find to townread Wicked is that Bungle did. He's transparently pushing an agenda in lylo. but your reaction is to scumread volpe and believe wicked for... no stated reason

will never shade for lack of time to put into a massive reread but you're not reevaluating. that's the skittering™ I'm talking about, not necessarily putting in massive amounts of effort; it feels like you need to have this points of view, not that you're critically thinking and reaching them organically

a) why is volpe townie. i get that he is from your pov but he isn't from mine, so stop telling i'm scummy for not seeing the game from the same pov you are

like why should *i* be townreading volpe here exactly?

b) what am i not re-evaluating exactly?

[skitter30]

Stop trying to railroad the gamestate

That’s @volpe and wooper

yes

[skitter30]

I'm considering that wooper might be scum?

But like I said

for the hundred or so time

You don't lynch a clear before getting at least another one scum, especially when I've confscum as long you consider me town.

no one's saying we should be lynching wooper rn, so stop defending against scenarios that don't exist

like you're playing in an entirely different game rn, where wooper is imminently getting lynched and you need to stop that from happening when this isn't happening

[skitter30]

Ok, in hindsight I might have been a bit unreasonable lately

But there's no reason to go for wooper first here...

yes

[skitter30]

i think menalque and ddl are town

i think scum is {tw, nor} and one of {volpe/wicked}

[skitter30]

i'm not sure that works out mechanically (?)
but i also haven't done it from your pov tbf

[skitter30]

I feel like there's nothing for me to add which can't be accomplished by quoting the last dozen posts of my ISO lol

ok

i feel like that's a nice to avoid responding to me so

[skitter30]

oh you're doing the same thing as volpe ... acting like i'm pushing for you to be lynched today when i've said repeatedly that it should be {volpe/wicked}

i'm not sure why both of you are defending so heavily against something that isn't happening, but there you go

[skitter30]

what do you want me to respond to? all I see is you positioning me lmao there's no way to respond to that except squabbling and I have better ways to spend my time than engaging with scum

is it just me or is purposefully ignoring objective facts like this scummy ^

[skitter30]

this isn't pushing for a volpe/wicked lynch or trying to sort volpe/wicked (latter of which is your wincon as town aorn), it's manipulating gamestate into uncertainty about volpe/wicked

i mean if you want to twist it to be read that way, i guess it is (?)

since the cop claims came out i haven't pushed for anything besides for lynching in the cop claims

i'm allowed to share my view of the gamestate ...

[skitter30]

i want you to respond to:

- the fact that you/volpe seem to be railroading the discussion in a certain why
- why *i* should be townreading volpe, i get that he's town from your pov but that isn't helpful to me
- why you're repeatedly defending against me trying to lynch you when i've repeatedly pointed out that that is not, in fact, what i'm doing
- why you're willfully choosing to ignore objective facts

we can start here if you like

[skitter30]

i mean i'm trying to solve it ...
why do you think i'm not ?

[skitter30]

... Nothing like a bit of libelous nonsense to end a wall of questions

why can't you engage with me in good faith skitter?

i think i am engaging you in good faith , i'm not sure why you're accusing me of this, but you do you

if anything i can argue that *you're* arguing in bad faith given the first sentence of this quote but you know

[skitter30]

i'm confused by volpe/wooper making sense as a team given the whole 'wooper claiming cop day2 and volpe cc'ing him' thing

[skitter30]

you're shooting off gamestate analysis and continuously finding reasons to achieve the same reads you've had all through this phase... solving those slots is town wincon rn and you've become bizarrely indignant

i mean i'm trying ...

[skitter30]

wooper i feel like everything you're saying is kinda slimy and in bad faith

[skitter30]

... Nothing like a bit of libelous nonsense to end a wall of questions

why can't you engage with me in good faith skitter?

i think i am engaging you in good faith , i'm not sure why you're accusing me of this, but you do you

if anything i can argue that *you're* arguing in bad faith given the first sentence of this quote but you know

i'm not ignoring objective facts lol

you're willfully ignoring the setup, repeatedly

again you keep brushing this away like it's unimportant but like ... it's a significant factor

ok i'm going to stop talking to you now i think because this is getting nowhere
i am strongly convinced you're scum, and since it's apparently i need to spell this out about 12 times, no, i am not interested in lynching you today

i want to talk to egix/ddl/menalque

[skitter30]

i don't believe town!you

* willfully ignores the setup
* doesn't that i'm scumreading you in lylo
* earnestly believes i'm scum here
* is this bravado-y

[skitter30]

*doesn't care that i'm scumreading you in lylo

[skitter30]

anyway i feel like this entire discussion is irrelevant rn

[skitter30]

wicked, why'd you make the checks you did?

[skitter30]

you realize that the thread has been open for like 36 hours and that i haven't had a chance to do the ~long reread/re-isoing that leads to the re-evaluating in lylo~ thing yet, right?

i'm literally rereading wicked as we speak

and again my read on you rn is irrelevant because we're not lynching you today

[skitter30]

* i don't know what you're referring to wrt willfully ignoring the setup; idk how to make that more transparent

you're still acting like i can be groupscum here

i've given you the information you need to understand why this is impossible

if you're not takign it into account you're ignoring it

[skitter30]

also what's the point of this argumetn rn exactly

[skitter30]

TTTT. only option is DDV.
---> which would mean menalque is lying, as are both cops. i'm telling the truth

TTT. options are DDVV or DDCC.
--->if DDCC one cop is lying, one of me and menalque is sk, and the other is lol-cc'ing. i think we can pretty much rule this one out objectively because that would entail an sk claiming to be vig and someone else randomly claiming extra nks too. it would mean both me and memalque are lying. impossible from my pov
---> if DDVV both cops are lying, as am i. menalque is telling the truth.

TT. option is DDCCV or DDVVV
---> ddccv. me and one of the cops are telling the truth. menalque is lying.
---> ddvvv. Both cops are lying and me and menalque are telling the truth

T. options are DDCCVV
----> from my pov this is objectively impossible. from everyone else's pov i'm the sk in this universe, and one of the cops are lying

0. options are DDCCVVV
----> me and menalque are both telling the truth, one of the cops are lying

i think this covers all the scenarios (?)

these are the only universes we can live in given the fact that we know we have a 1s doc, a full doc, and an extra nk

i'm claiming 1s vig, menalque is claiming full vig

i'm going through each of the possible universes

for example, in TTTT, the only combinations of PR's that can compliment this to make a valid setup using the known facts is DDV. If we're playing DDV, i'm telling the truth (because V means 1s vig), and menalque isn't. There are no cops in this universe, so both cops are lying

i go through this for all possible universes

there aren't any where i can be groupscum except in maybe DDCC, where both me and menalque are lying (so one of us are sk and the other is groupscum lolcc'ing the sk) ... which is not very likely

i mean i guess if you want to say we live in this universe to make me groupscum you can, but you need to explain why scum!me decided to claim the vig kill and why menalque the sk decided to cc; these have to be explained if you want to push DDCC + sk

[skitter30]

yes, and you realise your iso doesn't have a semblance of intent to reconsider your read on wicked which just changed with no warning until i called you out on it

... because i have time to read the iso's now ...

what's your point

[skitter30]

i mean i guess if you want to say we live in this universe to make me groupscum you can, but you need to explain why scum!me decided to claim the vig kill and why menalque the sk decided to cc; these have to be explained if you want to push DDCC + sk

and from your pov the solve has to be exactly me/wicked {one of ddl/nor} with menalque being sk

[skitter30]

---> if DDVV both cops are lying, as am i. menalque is telling the truth.

wait i guess i can be groupscum here also, but then we need to manufacture a third person to be the sk

[skitter30]

ok well you either need to incorporate the mechanics in your reads or i'm going to point out how you keep on ignoring objective facts so

[skitter30]

---> if DDVV both cops are lying, as am i. menalque is telling the truth.

wait i guess i can be groupscum here also, but then we need to manufacture a third person to be the sk

and both cops are scum

so we'd need to have a scumteam of exactly {me/volpe/wicked} with menalque vig and some unknown 3rd party being the sk

and i decide to start the day lolcc'ing the person who actually made the vig/sk shot

like i guess there are fringe universes where i can be groupscum but like a lot of things would need to be shoehorned / waved awa to get them to make sense

[skitter30]

if i start pushing someone who's mechanically impossible just boop me on the nose

:raises hand:

[skitter30]

Hey guys, sorry I'm late.

I haven't read any of the thread yet but I am very pleased to announce that

I am a cop who investigated a suspicious person last night. And I got a guilty!

I will reveal the name when we get closer to the deadline because I want to see scum crack under the immense pressure of not knowing which of them has been caught by me!

No need to fear, Officer Moss is here! Stay tuned, folks!

and can you explain again what the point of this post was?

[skitter30]

i'm claiming 1s vig, menalque is claiming full vig

i didn't clock this; like, candidly, why didn't you shoot teacher n1/2?

oh i missed this

because if i massively misread the egix situation i didn't want to vig the actual doc

[skitter30]

It might be a lot of work, but it's almost worth it to go through all possible scum teams and starting digging for associative

agreed

just personality-wise, i think volpe is ballsier and is more likely to make a fake cop claim thing than wicked is

it doesn't match what i understand of wicked's personality at all, but i can see volpe doing it

[skitter30]

Nor, plase unvote

There's no reason to risk a quickhammer here in case scum havent gotten their act together yet

[skitter30]

I'm like 70% Wickedest scum, 30% Volpe scum rn

Ok

Why do you think this?

[skitter30]

Ty

[skitter30]

Skitt I don’t get why you’re so against lynching wooper today tbh

Like I think the conflicting cop claims are more easily sorted through lynching wooper than volpe if that’s the side that’s lying

I'm not sure, i havent sorted out all the implications yer

[skitter30]

Fighting skitt who is, again, either sk or town is not someone helpful to solving this

I rechecked it last night - there are technical fringe universes where i can be groupscum

(Like the one where i'm scum with both cop claims, you're telling the truth, but some 3rd player is the sk.

Or the one where one of the cop claims is telling the truth but both me and you are lying, where i guess one of us is sk and the other is groupscum who cc'd claiming the shot)

But i think these are the only ones

[skitter30]

Have we not clarified that wooper’s list is de facto impossible this game because skitt can’t be scum, she’s town or sk

I don’t rly like the wooper push there bc I agree he’s not dense enough to have missed the entire discussion about skitt’s alignment being p much mech solved, and trying to shade her here doesn’t make sense bc even if she is sk she has to hunt scum today or lose, no?

yeah I'm ignoring fringe universes bc I don't think that's helpful to actually solving this

like I'm okay with the fact that they exist but I don't see why I should view them as likely, and especially as the second one is literally impossible fmpov

I know, none of them are particularly likely, but i dont want someone to recheck it and be like 'technically you can be scum in these scenarios !!! And you've been claiming you can't be groupscum !!! You're using mechanics to falsely clear yourself !!!'

Or something along those lines

[skitter30]

Whoops extra quote, sorry

[skitter30]

That's gonna be a really tough one for me to answer actually. I'll get to it another time if I can.

Please do

[skitter30]

wicked, why'd you make the checks you did?

[skitter30]

Out of these, first is to note that probabilistically, the second one and first one is significantly more likely (exactly 25 times in fact) than the third, so I'm more inclined to ignore it for now.

sorry how do you get this?

[skitter30]

now i'm starting to think i'm confbiased bleh idk

[skitter30]

i'm feeling like the gamestate is kinda coalescing on wooper/nor/volpe and i'm nervous that scum is trying to make this look like the team, when it isn't

[skitter30]

Egix if you agree on voting Wicked that makes 4 out of 5 votes on Wicked.
Anyone wants to be the fifth?

see things like this are scary ^

[skitter30]

i'm feeling like the gamestate is kinda coalescing on wooper/nor/volpe and i'm nervous that scum is trying to make this look like the team, when it isn't

skitt can you talk to me about this because I'm also feeling a little uneasy about how the gamestate has stalled out now

I think scum would be trying to shift it harder if that was the scumteam?

idk I just feel v apathetic right now and I'm not really sure how to sort between volpe/wooper and wicked without seriously rereading them and I just don't have the motivation for that tonight

egix I'd really like it if you could come and do your thing on volpe/wicked

that's my point
the fact that this isn't happening is making me think they're ok with that

[skitter30]

wooper i still think you're scum but i don't have motivation for this today

[skitter30]

Volpe/wooper/norway

This is a towncore right

Things like this are creepy too

And like feed into me thinking they want us to think that

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81030

Fresh scum meta for the love of my life volpe, hot off the press

Apparently he was good in this game, per the scummy nomination thread

Does this affect your read here at all ?

Like make you more wary of him or

[skitter30]

If we're all gonna end up voting Wickedest anyway then what's the point?
Going for a Volpe lynch feels like a longshot at this point, and my case, if I ever made it, would be biased against it anyway.

No, bad attitude, esp from conftown in mylo
The fact that nor said this and it *worked* is incredibly alarming

He's trying to make the wicked lynch feel inevitable
Why does town!him want this or promote this notion in lylo?

[skitter30]

Yes

You really townread nor that much?

[skitter30]

i'm feeling like the gamestate is kinda coalescing on wooper/nor/volpe and i'm nervous that scum is trying to make this look like the team, when it isn't

So let me get this straight:

You think that scum might be trying to push a false narrative that the maf team is Woop/Volp/Norway
But on the other hand, Woop and Norway are saying scummy things lately?
Is that right?

pedit: I was, but now that you've pointed out his approach I'm starting to doubt myself.

Yes, unfortunatly i havent worked out which is more likely yet

[skitter30]

I don't have much else to go on other than my belief that Wicked is faking a guilty, and seeing as nobody else was saying anything interesting i felt like pushing him a little. So far no response from Wicked himself.

No, you were trying to get him lynched. Nice try tho

[skitter30]

I don't know what the scum strategy is right now, but the fact that people propose scum teams with me in it suggests that something seriously shady is going on and that's why i'm doubling down on Wicked. I really want his flip.

I mean ... is in unreasonable to think you're scum here?
I dont understand the connection between people thinking you're scum and you doubling down on wicked

[skitter30]

@Skitter30
Alright, but if you think i'm scum then you should find good reasons to vote for Wooper. We're not lynching outside of the conflicting cop claims.

I'm not suggesting we lynch you today, why are both you and wooper leaping to that conclusion ?

[skitter30]

Wooper what do u think of nor's creepy posts in the last couple of pages?