Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Wooper]

if that was akshly a scumslip i'll be so happy.

[Wooper]

A50 why did you fake guilty then withdraw it?

i'm not a50! but hey! i'll answer your other questions!

Why is wicked holding the guilty?

to watch scum squirm.

Whats been towny about egix/pk popping in in your opinion?

they feel contemplative/uninformed, it's a mild read

Also why is skitt now transparently town?

hold on nsg and i talked about this
the way she's engaging with the thread feels earnest/forward in a way scum!skitter struggles with i think; as scum she heavily diarises the scum pt and i can't picture her doing that here

[Wooper]

teacher

(4):

Volpe14

,

NorwegianboyEE

,

DrDolittle

,

Almost50

Almost50

(4):

Menalque

,

teacher

,

Bingle

,

Wooper

Wooper

(3):

Egix96

,

northsidegal

,

Wickedestjr

Bingle

(1):

skitter30

making this vc pretty is a really interesting exericse
VOTE: teacher

yo redoing this exercise treating teacher as mechtown is really interesting

[Wooper]

Wicked you should out it if you’ve got it

nah

What do you mean by diarises? Like I agree that skitt is still prob town here although her saying that nsg would be a high priority NK for her makes me slightly anxious

nsg is like 90% of the site's fav n1 kill it's objectively true

[Wooper]

^ like, is it because she's usually right on D1, right

i'd say it's the strength of her ability to reevaluate lategame actually
she hits scumteams d1 more often than most but d1 accuracy is like, very difficult

[Wooper]

I don’t see what the advantage is in keeping it quiet because it just means playing WIFOM over whether scum changed interactions since the reveal or stuck with what they were doing

And I know that she’s strong but I was thinking that specifically for skitt she didn’t make sense, or made less sense

i'll explain after he outs it
pinkie promise it's max ev for him to hold it til late in the phase

[Wooper]

I mean I’d feel better about that if I was townreading you

regardless of alignment it'd be dumb for me to lie about policy stuff. i can literally explain why it's objectively beneficial.

[Wooper]

nor's disappointment in me for faking it, too

it's like, how do i describe it
it's like he had this date with an absolutely beautiful duck lined up and he got to the restaurant and had a look at the menu, then his phone buzzes, and he gets a text, and it's the duck, like "wow i guess my gps is broken.. i don't know where i am lol.. i can't come sorey (:"

you could actually TASTE that moment of disappointment

that's not fake

[Wooper]

"Assuming Teacher is scum outed by Ducky/Wooper": PERSONAL READS LIST!

100% town:
- NorwegianboyEE
- Wooper
- Volpe14

Townlean:
- pisskop

Null:
- Egix96
- Almost50

scumlean:
- skitter30
- Menalque
- Wickedestjr
- DrDolittle

Scumlord:
- teacher -

Why would Wooper bind his own fate to faking a cop scan on Day 2 though?

Volpe's case seems kinda far fetched as compared to Wooper just being a cop that got a guilty check.

I'm inclined to believe both A50 and Wooper, since if they are both lying then that means they would both be on the same scum team which would be a really foolish move by the mafia. Either that or it's somehow SVT but that's also kinda weird since A50 is totally ok with sheeping the wagon on Teacher so that makes it unlikely for A50 scum in any circumstances. Wooper could be doing what Nibbui suggested but that's kinda outlandish. So i'm thinking T+T here. And Teacher+DrDoolittle is scum.
The third scum would probably be either Skitter30 for trying to discredit the cops or it's Menalque... OR it's Wicked.

Scum!A50 doesn't make sense. If we assume Teacher is on the same scum team as A50 and has been outed, then A50 advocating us to keep going with the Teacher wagon makes his potential fake claim pointless. Town!A50 believing the claim and coming up with his own after the fact, makes much more sense.

Meanwhile scum!Wooper could be possible if you believe Nibbui's case about him making it up. But i'm personally townreading Wooper so i don't believe it.

Therefore yes, i believe they are both being honest and telling the truth.

What the actual ****.
Wooper why would you lie about a guilty?

this is way way way too cute.

[Wooper]

like, criminally cute. if nor is scum he should be arrested for being too cute.

[Wooper]

For what it's worth I lightly skimmed those recents pages + a bit of the convo to mull over while I'm away of the thread, and the unique thing I'm conflicted on wooper is how he is acting more like a sobbing puppy that got his ice cream stolen by a bully than a petulant mischiever that got his little schemes suddenly cut.

I expected scum!him egging/resisting me a bit more here instead of going to badmouth me in a corner

I'm not sure if it's not a pocket attempt though, given he also started "town reading" me again.

if you don't see the reason i hammed up my scumread back there you need to go think and come back when you have time to actually play the game

[Wooper]

Oh so it’s not about other people putting stock into her reads in a way you find weird? That was the vibe I was getting

i'm sheeping nsg on egix yeah
until later evaluation but that involves META and EFFORT

[Wooper]

Scissors. Wooper is still scumming it up, with a side of reaction test to feel townie.

rxn tests don't look towny

[Wooper]

Scissors. Wooper is still scumming it up, with a side of reaction test to feel townie.

Do you think wooper is the type of player who is likely to fake a reaction test as scum?

equally likely as either alignment imo

[Wooper]

teacher did you doc skitter? jw

[Wooper]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

possibility you succeeded and we're in mb

[Wooper]

If you can explain to me how town benefits from knowing who I docced more than scum does, I will consider answering.

possibility you succeeded and we're in mb

True, but if I saved the SK's shot, its still not alignment telling, ya? What does town get? (Scum get to know who they have to push at somepoint). Im going to need a logical explanation of why +EV, not just throwing spaghetti at a wall.

sorry mathematics have never interested me much (i'm preparing myself to be chased out of the community)

look idk
if there's a clear out there 1-3 scum know about it and we don't
if there isn't a clear it doesn't really matter

it strikes me as a good idea but if you passionately disagree i don't really care

[Wooper]

like, criminally cute. if nor is scum he should be arrested for being too cute.

[Wooper]

dw I'm still cuter. :>

[Wooper]

My reads improve when I lurk, lol
They also improve when I focus less on being nice

Empathy and engagingness are for chumps!!!

[Wooper]

VOTE: pk

[Wooper]

VOTE: teacher

Whether it's 3 or 4 on Woop, that's still too many.

his alignment is confirmed via massclaim
it's an open thing

@teacher we're not lynching me because I'm town. if you are town and don't like my pk vote find a better target for me plsssssss

[Wooper]

I kinda stopped scumreading him holistically when bungle greenflipped. I'm fine w waiting for him and treating him as town for now

[Wooper]

Who complained about wicked holding a guilty? lynch them before endgame unless they're literally cleared

[Wooper]

Normally I'd be encouraging us to push pk/a50 to L-1 at a bare minimum today but unfortunately that would be v crappy

pedit: lol ok I'm 50/50 on whether you get a pass

[Wooper]

Who complained about wicked holding a guilty? lynch them before endgame unless they're literally cleared

i am sus of people who are complaining about people complaining about wicket holding a guilty

I'm suss about people complaining about people complaining about people complaining about wicked holding a guilty gtfo

[Wooper]

A50 why are you avoiding engaging with me

who isn't he avoiding engaging w

[Wooper]

now i know how nor felt

[Wooper]

over the top/ridiculous enough that people would know I wasn't for real

it was actually so silly i thought it was too silly to be a joke.
hook, line, sinker.

[Wooper]

Wicked is probably town, i think i'm just going to sheep jingle posthumously

^^^^ good take

[Wooper]

should probably trust in nsg's reads more

her strong townreads yes, imo, egix is probs town for her townflip
i don't think she was in the game long enough and her scumreads aren't v good

{nsg}
{norwegian, egix}
{skitter, menalque}
{emperor}
{nibbui, wicked, ddl} - null
{a50,

bingle

}
{

teacher

}
{

the worst

}

if i'm wrong on anyone above null it'd be menalque, his is a preliminary placing

(blue = mechsolve; green known to me) working on teacher not being cc'd she's like, 0-1/4

[Wooper]

Town: wicked, probably egix, menalque, ddl, maaaaaaaybe a50, nor (slightly paranoid of him tho), volpe

can you weight these and explain why you're paranoid of nor in this gamestate?

[Wooper]

i'm lingeringly still a lot more paranoid of volpe than nor lol, i think they're both town

[Wooper]

Town: wicked, probably egix, menalque, ddl, maaaaaaaybe a50, nor (slightly paranoid of him tho), volpe

can you weight these and explain why you're paranoid of nor in this gamestate?

I mislynched him in a newbie like a month and a half ago for playing ... badly and without like having cogent thoughts so the fact that he reads so differently here and has like ~nuance~ and ~good tone~ is worrisome and paranoia inducing

... ok
weighting?

[Wooper]

my only concern w you is you still haven't really considered that i'm town :c

[Wooper]

my only concern w you is you still haven't really considered that i'm town :c

Y should i be townreading you here?

i think this game is pretty hilariously different from my 'good' scumplay and a lot better than my 'bad' scumplay? ... i guess it's within range but sans nsg i still kinda just... have no idea why people want to lynch me in this one...

@teacher i'm a tiny bit paranoid of skitter PoEing so assertively but still think she's exhibited skills likely outside her scumrange

[Wooper]

i think
nsg is extremely good at finding quirky but powerful meta towntells from people

i'd trust her d1 strong townreads to a reasonable extent; she knows herself well enough to know how valuable her tells are. i don't think she calls egix strongly town if she's not really super confident on this read, ***especially*** because he's doing sweet fa this game

her scumreads are also probably better than random earlygame but i think i trust her to not townread scum, more than i trust her to not scumread town - i'm not sure exactly where the flaw is. given she used to get my alignment right within ~5 posts every time but basically hasn't since i've become a more self-aware player, i wonder a little whether she's quicker to scumread people whose current meta she isn't as familiar with?

not suggesting she's saying to policy lynch me
guess i'm just waxing poetic

her townreads are better than her scumreads tho

[Wooper]

Wooper I’m starting to feel like you just wanna be on whatever wagon has the chance of going

as long as it's not on someone i think is town? you're goddamn fucking right

[Wooper]

@woop, to be clear I was talking about Skitter skills not NSG reads.

ok

[Wooper]

Sigh.

[Wooper]

oh i actually AM a cop i just don't have a guilty on teacher

[Wooper]

i have a guilty on pisskop y'all noobs

[Wooper]

no, i voluntarily fakeclaimed vt to distance from my actual role.

[Wooper]

actually unironically i did voluntarily trueclaim VT for competition of the jungle/me wagons

pedit: you keep saying that and yet i have no idea why you think that.

[Wooper]

if you guys need to lynch me to advance the gamestate i don't like, care all that much

we aren't able to get a substantial wagon against a50/pk tho and i think i've been pretty transparent this game so w/e i'm cool sitting out and coming back to laugh at any townie pushing me postgame <3

[Wooper]

1) i'm bored
2) i don't see how i'm meant to not; i actually don't understand why i'm being scumread

[Wooper]

hmm i thought it was a fair representation of me

VOTE: A50 i'm gonna sit on this and focus on work
gl team

[Wooper]

FPS9++

lmfao.

[Wooper]

Hi

[Wooper]

nah

[Wooper]

i tend to have that effect yeah

[Wooper]

VOTE: pk

[Wooper]

VOTE: pk

[Wooper]

pk the more you do this game the more manipulative you look :<

[Wooper]

I think I was already voting him
was going for the meme

[Wooper]

This remind of you any other terrible lynches that have happened recently?

P: why would you or whopper not be?

Oh, Wooper IS scum. I just think he was bussing because you would unvote next and the wagon will go away because none of those who suspect him would want to lynch you.

come at me monkey.

[Wooper]

VOTE: a50

[Wooper]

WOOPER THE DOCTOR TO THE RESC-- wait what the fuck
I have another guilty you guys need to listen to me more

[Wooper]

i was the a50 shot
i'm probably voting you today @ducky
my reads have also been dead-wrong so i need to reset p heavily, i think

i was p sure teacher was lying about being a doctor, which is why i was scumreading him

someone get me a emoji the size of the Eiffel Tower

Menalque you're the closest could you zip down to Paris for me

[Wooper]

Cop.

N1 teacher

N2 Wooper

Both clears.

Why the fuck did you target teacher if he was mech clearab-- OH LMFAO

ok this is a very likely claim

[Wooper]

i guess i would start with wicked (?) idk

i'm lowky paranoid of a fake cop but i think we need to have more prs so

he's in the four other players

i'm talking about the fact that we need to have a doctor given that nsg flipped 1s doc

i'm like 95% certain i know who it is too; i've known for a while

i guess i'm the only crazy person who claims innos as cop

@ddl i'm not positive it's correct to out that just yet (?)

How is your automatic assumption that volpe's copclaim is fake after his conduct on d2 wrt teacher lmfao

[Wooper]

ddl's the towniest of you 4 btw

Towncase him for me 200 words or less
He was on d1 for sure so interested how your read developed.

[Wooper]

not at all? volpe could be fake-claiming and whatnot too.
but let's the last two claim first

HOW IS THIS AN INTUITIVE REACTION OMG

[Wooper]

ddl's the towniest of you 4 btw

Towncase him for me 200 words or less
He was on d1 for sure so interested how your read developed.

making cogent observations about the gamestate in real time that indicated he was thinking about the game from a town perspective

22 words, yay

Can you quote me these rq because I'm getting increasingly paranoid of DrDolittle from sod

[Wooper]

i think scum is guaranteed to have a gf so tw isn't actually clear here

queue massive thinking emoji again

[Wooper]

i dont really want to solve skit + mela atm.
lets first wait till wicked + whopper claims

Actually agree w this except if you can't work out what my claim is by now idk what to tell you

[Wooper]

can you at least come up with a plan that doesn't involve me doing things that aren't ridiculously suboptimal, ty

this is a bit creepy

you keep drawing attention to knowing who the doc was as well which makes me directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

you're endgame scum skitter. you make clever plays. stop arguing in bad faith; the doc thing isn't something you wouldn't do as scum. :/

[Wooper]

I'M STILL CATCHIN UP
I told you guys I'm a multitasking doctor cop smh

[Wooper]

like i believe that scum!me wouldn't kill egix, sure, i literally just did the equivalent in my most recent scumgame

but why on earth do i then kill teacher of all people

teacher is always a classy kill there. possibility of >1 doc and he's telling the truth; if he is fakeclaiming then wifom and you're wking a conftown doctor going into lylo

t-chizzle is a perfect nk

[Wooper]

sorry still catching up slowly; re. finished game, exactly. I was more than happy to dig that up. I need you to go several layers deeper than "weeellllll if I was scum why would I~~~" today because we both know you're capable of out of this world mechanical/claim plays

[Wooper]

maybe
you still wouldn't get the mislynch ig because teacher is cleared but I'm not sure whether you factor his cop equity into your plans

[Wooper]

still find it mind blowing you're struggling so much to treat me as cleared when I literally am unless you assume volpe is scum

[Wooper]

ash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

Also this isnt fair

the world isn't fair. you can still be town here. we just need a better argument than something which is not only within your scumrange, but aligns with your scum m.o. really well.

[Wooper]

but I'm not sure whether you factor his cop equity into your plans

I did think about that - point taken and I'll factor it in for what it's worth.

[Wooper]

either claim?

[Wooper]

I'm saying that you saying that egix being alive at lylo means i'm scum isnt a fair statement or an argument in good faith, because it allows you to spin the current situation however you like

not what I said skitter.

[Wooper]

I think she meant you can be godfather because we prob have one here by this point

eh ig
I'm going to obvtown anyway and you should all treat me as cleared this phase. work it out once we have scum flips. :3

I'm just remembering your truce post now and realising I probably could have factored this in: meme alliance gratefully accepted let's do this

[Wooper]

still find it mind blowing you're struggling so much to treat me as cleared when I literally am unless you assume volpe is scum

Do gf's not exist in your world or

eh not really. fuck em

[Wooper]

normally I'd be all over that one cheeky scumfuck who just automatically assumed I'm a gf rather than cleared (substantially lower probability but doesn't suit an agenda of mialynching me) but drdolittle suggesting the same thing has me like.... X(

[Wooper]

Skitter/Wicked scumteam. Far fetched or nah?

not remotely but excuse me

Wicked is coming out of nowhere with a guilty on Wooper

what the fuck?

[Wooper]

I had a sneaking suspicion nsg saw something ~special~ in Egix after she flipped

[Wooper]

Again i dont do dumb things as scum

I absolutely would keep egix alive if i thought it was useful

I absolutely wouldnt nk teacher then because that would defeat the purpose od keeping egix alive

I think we need to resort to sorting you via gameplay rather than nka/naa because you are capable of setting up nka/naa plays which endgame you as scum.

not going to say this again; lay off the wifom. you're disturbing the gamestate when you could be finding scums with us.

[Wooper]

I’m actually starting to wonder if wooper is gf and the quickhammer was to bait an invest

I've done this before with a gf scumbuddy and you have no idea how elegantly we pulled it off.

I don't do it unless we have an incredibly deep wolf. saying it now, I wouldn't do it here unless I was scum with skitter for her to endgame. too risky a gambit.

skitter might remember this idk

[Wooper]

Yes, you ...

I'm very high probability cleared and off the table so find actual scum

if you flatly refuse to believe that I'm unlynchable: find my buddies

this is easy, no need for rhetoric and wifom

[Wooper]

please go easy on me I need to resume my catchup and nor mentioned something about wicked claiming a guilty on me and I NEED to see this

[Wooper]

directly cognisant to the fact you were intending to cash this in for towncred which reduces the value of Egix alive in lylo = town!skitter to exactly null

What does this statement mean then

it's not something people with cognisance of your meta should treat as AI and calling it out as strongly town indicative isn't valuable. not sure if disingenuous or earnest but yeah.

why did you hold your shot n1?

[Wooper]

Also if you claim then maybe we can start theorizing about the setup Wooper, come on you're the only one that hasn't claimed yet.

I'm vt lol
I didn't mean to make this more painful than it was; I thought it was obvious by now

[Wooper]

the 1v1 that happened here very strongly points to scum!mena imo

yeeaa

[Wooper]

Hey guys, I’ve got family visiting right now but I found some time to quickly check in here and skim through everything.

I’m a full shot cop.
N1: teacher inno
N2: Wooper guilty

Vote: Wooper

Scum team
Wooper, Volpe + skitter/Menalque


I’ll try to find some more time for posting tonight. Please don’t do anything hasty before then.

VOTE: wicked well that was easy
this one's a slip unless we think volpe is scum
I need to think because this might actually be a slip anyway

point stands: {volpe,wicked} today

[Wooper]

- skitter30 (Claims Vig and to have shot A50)
- Menalque (Claims Vig and to have shot A50)

- Volpe14 (Claims cop and claims to clear Wooper)
- Wickedestjr (Claims cop and claims to guilty Wooper)

- Egix96 (Claims doctor)
- DrDolittle (Claims VT)
- NorwegianboyEE (Claims VT)

- Wooper

Blue

: Haven't claimed.

Red

: Vig's counter claiming.

Orange

: Cop's counter claiming.

Yellow

: Claimed slots that aren't in conflict.

I claimed vt many times but you and drdolittle are counterclaiming

[Wooper]

Maybe wooper comes in and claims doc next thatd be swell

this is the post that inspired my opening shitpost :')

[Wooper]

I mean it’s like 6 hours dude

It's like a day and a half for me ):

[Wooper]

Ducky are you sk?

god I wanted to lolclaim SK d1 and see where the currents took me but that seemed more chaotic and personally enjoyable than valuable

I'm not quite Elsa Jay but I've taken a lot of notes

[Wooper]

The fact that you need information before claiming suggests that you're planning to manufacture something. That's a scum stance

this is funny.

[Wooper]

If Wooper is godfather then why did Wicked write this:

I’m a full shot cop.
N1: teacher inno
N2: Wooper guilty

exactly
fmpov I know for a fact he's lying

from your povs he's transparently lying because of the conflict with volpe's claim (unless you assume volpe is scum) :/

[Wooper]

we should mutely execute wicked today
then reconsider no lynch tomorrow

[Wooper]

EXACTLY!

[Wooper]

I'd remove SK setups as a matter of policy

[Wooper]

who am I kidding? I'm not gonna put in the legwork to sort the setup with only one PR flip :c

[Wooper]

mood tbh

[Wooper]

skitter30
Wooper
Menalque
Egix96
NorwegianboyEE
Volpe14 Nibbui
Wickedestjr
DrDolittle

probably maybe not skitter
not me
probably menalque
not Egix
probably not nor
probably not volpe
probably drdolittle

{tw,egix}
{volpe,nor}
{skitter}
{menaphos}
{drdolittle}
{wicked}

[Wooper]

postgame credits

basically yeah; it's a touch exhausting putting in effort when we have a guilty

[Wooper]

I'm not saying it should be read as strongly town indicative, but i object to you saying that the chance of egix being alibe in lylo means i cant be town

=> might have been a better representation? I'm saying it doesn't equal you being town. it doesn't explicitly mean you're town at all

[Wooper]

I'd love to be scum with volpe again but we aren't this smooth
I'm more mechanically inclined than he is and I am struggling to give a fuck atm

Volpe has done some stuff which is dubiously outside of his scumrange and his conduct around teacher yday makes a lot of sense coming from a cop with a clear

:shrug: think what you want, I can't prove either of us are locktown but I think you can intuitively realise its not the case.

[Wooper]

I'm not saying it should be read as strongly town indicative, but i object to you saying that the chance of egix being alibe in lylo means i cant be town

=> might have been a better representation? I'm saying it doesn't equal you being town. it doesn't explicitly mean you're town at all

... i never said it did
I'm saying it doesnt i'm scum either, which is what i read that as

I keep saying its not all that AI
It's annoying people talked around it for so long
need it to stop so we can repair the gamestate

[Wooper]

Sleep well Nor

[Wooper]

spicy take
excessive stubbornness is a scumtell for both skitter and volpe

[Wooper]

i'm not sure how to react to you being so proudly and unabashedly wrong without reconsidering your read skitter.

[Wooper]

and that, my friends, is what we call a wolfy pop-in.

[Wooper]

think it'd be a solid FTC speech tho
do you play LSGs wicked?

[Wooper]

it's genuine, sure. he thinks he deserves to win, thinks he's played a good game, and doesn't think this resembles his scum meta. that's genuine. genuine != towny: the content of his post is not towny.

I think the fact he's popped in w a claimed guilty
been caught out on it being fake
dropped a solve including nearly zero game-related reads
passed us a glorious and well written self meta defence
then walked back out
is more scum indicative than anything else in his iso

it's not a case for why he's caught the scumteam; it's a case for why you should not lynch wicked and should lynch who he says to lynch. it comes from a mindset that had deliberated on this and decided it was the correct course of play, not from a mindset who received a big reward (a guilty) and is reacting spontaneously to the gamestate around his guilty being simultaneously inno'd.

look it's a fine play. I'm always going to scorn it because I already know that it's a lie. volpe knows it's a lie as well. I think it's pretty obvious that {volpe,me} read more genuine than wicked does. if you're sold on this solve and mislynch me for the loss I won't lose sleep over it - it's just a game. but it's a cunning manipulative play, not a town power role result.

wicked has been spending time working this angle. outside the thread. not here solving.

I've been spending no time on fucking anything; I don't think volpe has been doing a lot of work outside the thread either. both of us are reacting to information we weren't privy to before. wicked is working through his presentation: he has a guilty. he believes he has the scumteam. he shouldn't be lynched because {big wall of self meta}.

just to reiterate if this was an LSG format where your wincon was "convince these good people you've played a good game", I'd take my hat off to him. but our wincons don't involve playing a good game. they involve either manipulating or finding manipulators.

back to you: i accept this case is genuine, at some level. do you think this is earnest, or do you think it's manipulative?

[Wooper]

you're always gonna get a vc of

wooper (1) wicked
wicked (2) wooper, volpe

here. always always always. we're either guiltied to each other, or we have to pretend to be guiltied to each other to see this one home. just need to find the townies and convince them which way is right.



just a side note skitter has done no skittering™ in this xylo and has instead been around in realtime to shade slots she has already pegged as scum. she is busy irl I believe, so this isn't directly AI. but be very wary of this. if you watch a couple of skitter lylos her stylistic difference leaps off the page.

I've imitated town!skitter lylos a few times and have never lost off them; either she's changed unrecognisably or she is actively not towntelling

just keep an eye on this

[Wooper]

she isn't town volpe.... :c

[Wooper]

like two options

- realistic claim from your a townread that someone you can't read is town
- fairly inorganic claim from someone you don't townread that they got a guilty on someone you can't read

town can pretty easily pick that there's necessarily 1-2 guilties in {volpe,wicked} and proceed to sort accordingly; scum need the mislynch. scum!skitter is remarkably less flexible than town!skitter. the fact she can't analyse this situation open-mindedly and accepts the unbelievable claim because it operates within her agenda is a scumtell.

[Wooper]

There's literally no way for me to be groupscum here, objectively ...

hit me with it I'm ready

[Wooper]

ftr we're lynching wicked today not you, so there's lots of time for you to prove me wrong if I'm wrong /o/

[Wooper]

Again i dont do dumb things as scum

I absolutely would keep egix alive if i thought it was useful

I absolutely wouldnt nk teacher then because that would defeat the purpose od keeping egix alive

I think we need to resort to sorting you via gameplay rather than nka/naa because you are capable of setting up nka/naa plays which endgame you as scum.

not going to say this again; lay off the wifom. you're disturbing the gamestate when you could be finding scums with us.

please please give me something I can't just answer by passive aggressively quoting this post

[Wooper]

Ngl
That post made me sigh a breath of relief

[Wooper]

how is lynching someone he mechanically knows is scum a scummy suggestion...

[Wooper]

There's literally no way for me to be groupscum here, objectively ...

hit me with it I'm ready

There's like six pages of math proving it not from my pov

can you give me a tl;dr why it makes you mechtown?
I signed up for the list, solving this setup doesn't interest me very much unless no one else wants to do it :/

[Wooper]

I don't have an opinion on whether it's optimal or not, or scummy or not, for you and Mena to vig each other rn

neither of you is confirmable and you're ccing roles which ?might? coexist?

I'm also kinda struggling with you not shooting teacher n1 tbh

[Wooper]

think the last part is the least interesting

I'll need an eli5 and I'm still holstering my right to just go "THIS IS BORING" and ask to just sort you via play anyway

[Wooper]

sorry what is it that makes menaphos the liar and you telling the truth in the situations you've posted there

[Wooper]

can someone ctrl+f "wooper" in skitter's iso and check whether I've been clearly mislynch positioned? at a super holistic level I feel like I have but w/e this read progression on volpe smells like opportunism

[Wooper]

think the last part is the least interesting

I'll need an eli5 and I'm still holstering my right to just go "THIS IS BORING" and ask to just sort you via play anyway

Ok and i think you ignoring mechanics to support your narrative is scummy, your point

1) huge gap between ignoring mechanics, and not understanding mechanics; I haven't seen a reason to clear you but you seem adamant about it so I asked you to explain. I don't really get this setup. I'm busy. I'd rather play mafia than sink time into comprehending a logic puzzle I'm not very interested in.

2) ......you're like, aware of my scum meta...... can you explain how me not being aware of mechanics is a scum indicator in your experience....?

[Wooper]

whatever
being across mechanics without talking thru them itt is like a gigantic scumtell for me
it's pretty rare that I'll consider any aspect of a setup as a vt unless I'm directly involved in a discussion: my eyes glaze over mechanical posts because I don't find them very interesting

I fall into the trap of facts rather than analysis and get stubborn with my reads

I have no idea what is going on mechanically here and my reads are like leaves in the wind~~~ in fact I've been focused on sorting all game without falling into mechs even once

I think it's a severely unconscious trap of a tell for me; it's wholly outside of my scumrange to consider mechanics of a setup and not kinda accidentally proudly bleed into the thread some little gems of information. appreciate it's a tell I'm self aware of post e.g. starcraft, undertale, etc. but I'm surprised the fact I'm transparently uninformed wrt mechanics but not trying to slip isn't something you've even considered as possibly town indicative

you're tunnelling in lylo: this isn't town!skitter m.o. :/

[Wooper]

sorry what is it that makes menaphos the liar and you telling the truth in the situations you've posted there

The number of v's in a given situation

If we're in DDV menalque is lying because there arent more V's.

If we're in DDVV i am because there are too many

Like it's objective and not readsbased

I still don't really understand the relevancy of this sorry, like what's the functional difference between your claim and Mena's in this situation and why does it apply to those setup variations?

[Wooper]

Wicked / Skitter / DDR
How's that for a plausible scum team?

aorn I think that's pretty likely to be the scumteam

[Wooper]

I havent had the energy/wherewithall/mental capacity to reread like that yet

I'm not and will not attack this; my WIM and availability are rapidly fluctuating atm as we

the issue I have is that you're completely steadfast: I think there are serious reconsiderations to make about my alignment here even if they're wifomy. there's none of this in your ISO.

Volpe fmpov is pretty damn towny; the only reason I can find to townread Wicked is that Bungle did. He's transparently pushing an agenda in lylo. but your reaction is to scumread volpe and believe wicked for... no stated reason

will never shade for lack of time to put into a massive reread but you're not reevaluating. that's the skittering™ I'm talking about, not necessarily putting in massive amounts of effort; it feels like you need to have this points of view, not that you're critically thinking and reaching them organically

[Wooper]

I'm not really sure about groupscum/soloscum atm
given wicked held his cards the played them so hard my instinct says there's 3 groupscum :<

[Wooper]

I need to sleep.
I'm starting to wonder if you and wicked would cc this as the scumteam

that feels like a rabbit hole I don't want to go down
+ I'm pretty sure you're just town anyway

[Wooper]

I'm not feeling very creative tonight sry I'll do better next time

[Wooper]

I'm outsourcing memes to volpe for the moment

pedit: eh same maybe but there's too much going on here for me not to reevaluate :c

[Wooper]

I feel like there's nothing for me to add which can't be accomplished by quoting the last dozen posts of my ISO lol

[Wooper]

just noting the lynch is now being steered off {volpe,wicked} which is a literal dichotomy including one scum and one town onto me who is mechanically clearable by lynching in {volpe,wicked} and also low hanging fruit and has not been scumcased in good faith once since nsg died

[Wooper]

I feel like there's nothing for me to add which can't be accomplished by quoting the last dozen posts of my ISO lol

ok

i feel like that's a nice to avoid responding to me so

what do you want me to respond to? all I see is you positioning me lmao there's no way to respond to that except squabbling and I have better ways to spend my time than engaging with scum

[Wooper]

i think menalque and ddl are town

i think scum is {tw, nor} and one of {volpe/wicked}

this isn't pushing for a volpe/wicked lynch or trying to sort volpe/wicked (latter of which is your wincon as town aorn), it's manipulating gamestate into uncertainty about volpe/wicked

your reads on volpe/wicked have been as profound as "wow I guess wooper and volpe are scum now" and your read on wicked has ascended out of literally nowhere

if you want to redeem my read on your slot I need trajectory because as I've pointed out like several times in this conversation your reads look incredibly convenient

[Wooper]

what do you want me to respond to? all I see is you positioning me lmao there's no way to respond to that except squabbling and I have better ways to spend my time than engaging with scum

is it just me or is purposefully ignoring objective facts like this scummy ^

I asked you a question and you talked around me: if you want me to respond to something, what do you want me to respond to? If you don't have any valuable topics to discuss quit shading me for not responding to you positioning me and not sorting the actual dichotomy

[Wooper]

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

Just as an aside I think it's disingenuous to suggest anyone is scumreading you for comparatively low activity to volpe. Volpe's play looks more like a townie and exhibits a broader range of things which are hard to fake as scum than yours by a decent margin; this is guilt-tripping and is transparently manipulative play.

again this is mafia not an LSG. if you were town this would be where we need you to play the game instead of burying your head in the sand with selfmeta and AtE.

@townies reading up I'm only responding to this because I think it's obvious what wicked is doing but naturally I already know either that he's either lying or telling the truth so ymmw

[Wooper]

this isn't pushing for a volpe/wicked lynch or trying to sort volpe/wicked (latter of which is your wincon as town aorn), it's manipulating gamestate into uncertainty about volpe/wicked

i mean if you want to twist it to be read that way, i guess it is (?)

since the cop claims came out i haven't pushed for anything besides for lynching in the cop claims

i'm allowed to share my view of the gamestate ...

sure but you have a dichotomy, one of whom is likely groupscum in a 3p team going for the win.

the fact you choose to do this and neglect to solve the dichotomy through reads on dayplay is scum indicative.

pedit: yeah gimme a few.

[Wooper]

the fact that you/volpe seem to be railroading the discussion in a certain why

from our perspective wicked is literally lockscum I'm not sure how you expect us not to proceed accordingly

why *i* should be townreading volpe, i get that he's town from your pov but that isn't helpful to me

he's not mechtown fmpov; he and wicked ccing would be a great s/s play. volpe is just a very strong townread. he's been playing his towngame the whole way through; volpe has plenty of scumtells and he's been deadset focused on solving for the entire game and hasn't really shown any of them

the only pause I'd give is that nsg literally didn't read him when she started her catch-up and his reaction to that was town!volpe indicative; he's a cheeky scumfuck but he's always been more offended when he feels unjustly read as town

he's exhibited constant solving momentum, a broad range of both analytical and emotional solving, been fluid and believable in both catch-up and realtimes - these are all towntells.

I've checked this and checked this and gotten anxious about it and lost anxiety - pretty certain this is just his towngame.

why you're repeatedly defending against me trying to lynch you when i've repeatedly pointed out that that is not, in fact, what i'm doing

you're regularly positioning me as firm scum fypov regardless of the outcome of today: I'm not only mech solvable but also off the table. I think you're hoping that my mislynch will be swung regardless of how volpe/wicked falls out.

why you're willfully choosing to ignore objective facts

... Nothing like a bit of libelous nonsense to end a wall of questions

why can't you engage with me in good faith skitter?

[Wooper]

i mean i'm trying to solve it ...
why do you think i'm not ?

cheesy answer but.... your ISO.....
I'm not seeing any effort to parse wicked/volpe's alignments; you're shooting off gamestate analysis and continuously finding reasons to achieve the same reads you've had all through this phase... solving those slots is town wincon rn and you've become bizarrely indignant

[Wooper]

i'm also missing a lot of logic wrt "what is the volpe/tw scumteam's endgame" here
like if volpe is a wolf he's the deepwolf unless you yourself or nor are scum - he's pretty well equipped to get to endgame and he's currently v hard to lynch

our endgame is for him to hit lylo, and claim an ... innocent on his lhf scumbuddy... and then?

like it ties a deepwolf to a slot which, in this world, half of the town has wanted to lynch for nearly the entire game. it's a fucking stupid plan. if i'm scum with volpe and he's desperate for a lylo gambit i'd have him claim a guilty on me. unless you expect us to just outright win in this phase you have to accept the sizeable flaw that i might just be lynched anyway

the valid paranoid theory here is that volpe/wicked are ccing each other as s/s - this would explain why wicked went ahead with a fakeclaim after a conflicting result was outed itt. even so, like....i just don't think it's the case...

you're not like.. thinking through this theory at any kind of level where you're actually going to find any scum motive.. your reasoning wrt sorting volpe/wicked has been bizarrely superficial and like i said, keeps reaching the same conclusion over and over again..

[Wooper]

That's the only rationale he's given for voting me instead of Volpe. He doesn't explicitly talk about my activity 'relative to Volpe's', but it does still appear like my inactivity is the deciding factor for him. It bugs me because I'm posting as much as I can, yet it's not going to be enough according to him.

Again, this isn't an activity read. Nor is transparently talking about how *low profile* you've been. you haven't been low activity by any degree; you've just been relatively reserved vs. e.g. volpe when you have been here.

This is bs and you know it Wooper. I know that you and Volpe are both scum AND it's MyLo. My biggest priority right now is making sure I don't get lynched - hence my self meta post. Don't act like my play is lacking something today.

And I haven't done any AtE.

this is literally AtE:

And I would object to the statement that I've been lurking in this game. Just because I'm one of the less active players in this

187 page game

doesn't mean I'm lurking. Blatant Scum, flippy, and CJ were lurkers. I'm not.

Couple other things:

• I've literally been posting as much as I can. I was busy rereading on day 2, but it's not my fault day ended right after I finished with that.
  
• Check literally any scum game of mine and you'll see that I don't resort to lurking as an intentional strategy. I don't see lurking as a viable long-term scum-strategy, in general.
  
• I will repeat what I said last night: Volpe's high activity and aggressive gameplay does not make sense for a full-shot cop. Nobody had a problem with my level of activity until today, now that I am up against him.

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

you're like ok i'm bad at words
you're inserting yourself into the situation as an emotional factor
then indicating you'd be outright disappointed if we acted in a certain way
when the certain way is largely unrelated to what we're doing

it's certainly not empathetic towards Nor's position; i sincerely agree with him that you've been too UTR and it's not due to activity. you didn't stop to check this or to unpack what Nor was seeing. you leapt to the defence including a post that was very very transparently intended to make the recipient feel guilty.

nobody is like, lynching because they view a player as inferior, or anything, here: that's intensely toxic. we're lynching you because you're scum. don't disqualify the conversation or mess with its integrity. there's quality conversation to be had here and you're skating around the side of it.



one last thing:

My biggest priority right now is making sure I don't get lynched - hence my self meta post.

your play this phase has been

> guilty LHF
> drop a scumteam suggestion with nearly-no logic
> explode into selfmeta and AtE
> fight with someone who you allegedly guiltied about being called out on selfmeta and AtE

if you're a town cop: you get your lynch on me today and you're promptly shot dead. future cop shots wasted. your biggest priority right now is finding the balance of my team to achieve your wincon. not dying is entirely secondary when there's like over a week left on the clock and

from your pov[/v] the only people voting you are:
1) wooper: an evil scum who you have a guilty on
2) volpe: an evil scum who is fakeclaiming your role with a contrary result to you to ? save ? his ? lhf ? buddy ?
3) nor: someone you're nulltownreading who.... i guess is the scumteam's pocket? but whose play you're also undermining rather than trying to engage with

you're not trying to solve the game or engaging with the gamestate in a way that indicates you believe what you're saying.

[Wooper]

wooper
volpe
Menalque
Egix96
NorwegianboyEE

is v v likely the entire town.

@egix/menaphos i'd be really interested to see your stances on what's happening here. it feels super transparent to me but like, i literally know wicked's alignment

[Wooper]

... Nothing like a bit of libelous nonsense to end a wall of questions

why can't you engage with me in good faith skitter?

i think i am engaging you in good faith , i'm not sure why you're accusing me of this, but you do you

if anything i can argue that *you're* arguing in bad faith given the first sentence of this quote but you know

i'm not ignoring objective facts lol

[Wooper]

you're shooting off gamestate analysis and continuously finding reasons to achieve the same reads you've had all through this phase... solving those slots is town wincon rn and you've become bizarrely indignant

i mean i'm trying ...

if you're town i think your energy would be best spent on the dichotomy

unless you think {me, volpe, nor} is literally the scum team full stop no questions asked (which is, no disrespect, a really trashy solve which i'd want a pretty detailed explanation on): you seem to be at loggerheads with at least one townie. could you really aggressively towncase wicked?

[Wooper]

wooper i feel like everything you're saying is kinda slimy and in bad faith

oh man another thing that makes you think i'm scum?

SURELY NOT

i haven't bled town this hard in months; you're not slowing down to reconsider that everything i'm saying makes absolutely perfect sense fmpov for a moment
you know how to townhunt in lylo. everyone knows that.
this is working an agenda.

[Wooper]

i keep trying to open avenues to have a more meaningful conversation and every time i push i get "wow you're scum because of {something else}"; there's no way you're not self-aware enough to realise you're stone-walling me here. :/

towncasing wicked is objectively the best use of your time rn if you're convinced i'm scum with volpe.

[Wooper]

* i don't know what you're referring to wrt willfully ignoring the setup; idk how to make that more transparent
* sorry but like...??? yes i do believ ethat
* how should i not be scumreading you? can you explain how you're scumsiding this stubbornly in lylo? like you literally haven't slowed down to reconsider your solve for a moment. you walked into today thinking i was scum and (i think?) with volpe over wicked. you've changed your read on wicked and volpe to suit a narrative of me being scum and i don't follow your read trajectory at all unless you literally need it to be the case.
* that's another shading effort!!! fml i'm not being bravado-y or cocky at all i'm fucking tearing my hair out. i haven't been as annoyed at a game of mafia in a fucking long time.

you are:
1) not acknowledging the difference between this and when i'm frustrated as scum
2) not reconsidering my alignment like once outside of SCUM => SCUM => SCUM => IDK? => SCUM => DEATHTUNNEL across ... the entire game ...
3) mystically switching reads around to fit an agenda
4) shading slots we're not going to lynch today while restating the same really holey solve
5) refusing to put any of that energy into solving a literal mechanical dichotomy which could avoid an impending town loss

how can you not see how i think you're scum here? :/ if you're town you're playing to scum wincon perfectly

[Wooper]

was that the post with the letters? i still don't understand why there's a significant difference between yours and menalque's claims
are you softing SK? if you'd like to fullclaim we can set a groupscum loss

[Wooper]

you realize that the thread has been open for like 36 hours and that i haven't had a chance to do the ~long reread/re-isoing that leads to the re-evaluating in lylo~ thing yet, right?

yes, and you realise your iso doesn't have a semblance of intent to reconsider your read on wicked which just changed with no warning until i called you out on it

also what's the point of this argumetn rn exactly

there's no point to this argument i'm legitimately super frustrated.
i feel like the wicked/volpe solve is like fucking ridiculous levels of easy and other than nor all i'm seeing is people floating scumteam ideas around noncommittally like

we could be so much further into this convo rn

[Wooper]

i'm claiming 1s vig, menalque is claiming full vig

i didn't clock this; like, candidly, why didn't you shoot teacher n1/2?

[Wooper]

looking at all those letters and reviewing the frustration i feel at this phase reminds me why i decided to take a break from mafia phhheeeewww

[Wooper]

i just opened the wiki page and realised i actually just don't give a fuck
fuck this setup
i'm going to keep pushing reads, it's what i'm here for and mechanics shit me to tears

skitter, idrc what you are if you're not town. you're playing into a groupscum gambit. if you're not groupscum i trust you to fix it.

if i start pushing someone who's mechanically impossible just boop me on the nose

[Wooper]

do your reread on wicked/volpe and we can jam; i probably won't engage with like a tonne of text because my wim is currently tied to wishing this game was over so i never have to play in a whatever++ setup again

and that's more than mildly detrimental to the gamestate and my mental health/enjoyment of mafia

i'm just going to like. do my thing. if you and someone else who isn't really scummy can just check the claims/flips against setup possibilities i'd appreciate it


pedit: yes, nose firmly booped
play on and we can talk afterwards

[Wooper]

Wooper I dont even get why you're so upset. Maybe I'm starting to tunnel, but looking at your POV as town, you should be pleased

i was pretty pleased at the start of this phase

i'm starting to despair that people are actually going to fuck up the easiest solve i've ever seen

[Wooper]

It might be a lot of work, but it's almost worth it to go through all possible scum teams and starting digging for associative

agreed

just personality-wise, i think volpe is ballsier and is more likely to make a fake cop claim thing than wicked is

it doesn't match what i understand of wicked's personality at all, but i can see volpe doing it

that way lies wifom; can i suggest just sorting the slots...?

[Wooper]

It's a brilliant plan too, it was MYLO, probably no SK, and by claiming cop on a guilty on fellow partner, just a single mislynch is GG

that's a really stupid plan dude

[Wooper]

it ties a deepwolf slot to someone who half+ the list have wanted to lynch the entire game :c

[Wooper]

here we go

[Wooper]

Volpe/wooper/norway

This is a towncore right

[Wooper]

sry I don't have to much to add
feel there's enough here to get this correct; me flailing around probably isn't going to help
not motivated to solve thru so many slots when I'm consensus PoE anyway
want wicked's alignment public

anyone read my points about what he's doing today?

[Wooper]

v apathetic

mood

[Wooper]

it's genuine, sure. he thinks he deserves to win, thinks he's played a good game, and doesn't think this resembles his scum meta. that's genuine. genuine != towny: the content of his post is not towny.

I think the fact he's popped in w a claimed guilty
been caught out on it being fake
dropped a solve including nearly zero game-related reads
passed us a glorious and well written self meta defence
then walked back out
is more scum indicative than anything else in his iso

it's not a case for why he's caught the scumteam; it's a case for why you should not lynch wicked and should lynch who he says to lynch. it comes from a mindset that had deliberated on this and decided it was the correct course of play, not from a mindset who received a big reward (a guilty) and is reacting spontaneously to the gamestate around his guilty being simultaneously inno'd.

look it's a fine play. I'm always going to scorn it because I already know that it's a lie. volpe knows it's a lie as well. I think it's pretty obvious that {volpe,me} read more genuine than wicked does. if you're sold on this solve and mislynch me for the loss I won't lose sleep over it - it's just a game. but it's a cunning manipulative play, not a town power role result.

wicked has been spending time working this angle. outside the thread. not here solving.

I've been spending no time on fucking anything; I don't think volpe has been doing a lot of work outside the thread either. both of us are reacting to information we weren't privy to before. wicked is working through his presentation: he has a guilty. he believes he has the scumteam. he shouldn't be lynched because {big wall of self meta}.

just to reiterate if this was an LSG format where your wincon was "convince these good people you've played a good game", I'd take my hat off to him. but our wincons don't involve playing a good game. they involve either manipulating or finding manipulators.

back to you: i accept this case is genuine, at some level. do you think this is earnest, or do you think it's manipulative?

you're always gonna get a vc of

wooper (1) wicked
wicked (2) wooper, volpe

here. always always always. we're either guiltied to each other, or we have to pretend to be guiltied to each other to see this one home. just need to find the townies and convince them which way is right.



just a side note skitter has done no skittering™ in this xylo and has instead been around in realtime to shade slots she has already pegged as scum. she is busy irl I believe, so this isn't directly AI. but be very wary of this. if you watch a couple of skitter lylos her stylistic difference leaps off the page.

I've imitated town!skitter lylos a few times and have never lost off them; either she's changed unrecognisably or she is actively not towntelling

just keep an eye on this

I havent had the energy/wherewithall/mental capacity to reread like that yet

I'm not and will not attack this; my WIM and availability are rapidly fluctuating atm as we

the issue I have is that you're completely steadfast: I think there are serious reconsiderations to make about my alignment here even if they're wifomy. there's none of this in your ISO.

Volpe fmpov is pretty damn towny; the only reason I can find to townread Wicked is that Bungle did. He's transparently pushing an agenda in lylo. but your reaction is to scumread volpe and believe wicked for... no stated reason

will never shade for lack of time to put into a massive reread but you're not reevaluating. that's the skittering™ I'm talking about, not necessarily putting in massive amounts of effort; it feels like you need to have this points of view, not that you're critically thinking and reaching them organically

I'm not really sure about groupscum/soloscum atm
given wicked held his cards the played them so hard my instinct says there's 3 groupscum :<

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

Just as an aside I think it's disingenuous to suggest anyone is scumreading you for comparatively low activity to volpe. Volpe's play looks more like a townie and exhibits a broader range of things which are hard to fake as scum than yours by a decent margin; this is guilt-tripping and is transparently manipulative play.

again this is mafia not an LSG. if you were town this would be where we need you to play the game instead of burying your head in the sand with selfmeta and AtE.

@townies reading up I'm only responding to this because I think it's obvious what wicked is doing but naturally I already know either that he's either lying or telling the truth so ymmw

That's the only rationale he's given for voting me instead of Volpe. He doesn't explicitly talk about my activity 'relative to Volpe's', but it does still appear like my inactivity is the deciding factor for him. It bugs me because I'm posting as much as I can, yet it's not going to be enough according to him.

Again, this isn't an activity read. Nor is transparently talking about how *low profile* you've been. you haven't been low activity by any degree; you've just been relatively reserved vs. e.g. volpe when you have been here.

This is bs and you know it Wooper. I know that you and Volpe are both scum AND it's MyLo. My biggest priority right now is making sure I don't get lynched - hence my self meta post. Don't act like my play is lacking something today.

And I haven't done any AtE.

this is literally AtE:

And I would object to the statement that I've been lurking in this game. Just because I'm one of the less active players in this

187 page game

doesn't mean I'm lurking. Blatant Scum, flippy, and CJ were lurkers. I'm not.

Couple other things:

• I've literally been posting as much as I can. I was busy rereading on day 2, but it's not my fault day ended right after I finished with that.
  
• Check literally any scum game of mine and you'll see that I don't resort to lurking as an intentional strategy. I don't see lurking as a viable long-term scum-strategy, in general.
  
• I will repeat what I said last night: Volpe's high activity and aggressive gameplay does not make sense for a full-shot cop. Nobody had a problem with my level of activity until today, now that I am up against him.

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

you're like ok i'm bad at words
you're inserting yourself into the situation as an emotional factor
then indicating you'd be outright disappointed if we acted in a certain way
when the certain way is largely unrelated to what we're doing

it's certainly not empathetic towards Nor's position; i sincerely agree with him that you've been too UTR and it's not due to activity. you didn't stop to check this or to unpack what Nor was seeing. you leapt to the defence including a post that was very very transparently intended to make the recipient feel guilty.

nobody is like, lynching because they view a player as inferior, or anything, here: that's intensely toxic. we're lynching you because you're scum. don't disqualify the conversation or mess with its integrity. there's quality conversation to be had here and you're skating around the side of it.



one last thing:

My biggest priority right now is making sure I don't get lynched - hence my self meta post.

your play this phase has been

> guilty LHF
> drop a scumteam suggestion with nearly-no logic
> explode into selfmeta and AtE
> fight with someone who you allegedly guiltied about being called out on selfmeta and AtE

if you're a town cop: you get your lynch on me today and you're promptly shot dead. future cop shots wasted. your biggest priority right now is finding the balance of my team to achieve your wincon. not dying is entirely secondary when there's like over a week left on the clock and

from your pov[/v] the only people voting you are:
1) wooper: an evil scum who you have a guilty on
2) volpe: an evil scum who is fakeclaiming your role with a contrary result to you to ? save ? his ? lhf ? buddy ?
3) nor: someone you're nulltownreading who.... i guess is the scumteam's pocket? but whose play you're also undermining rather than trying to engage with

you're not trying to solve the game or engaging with the gamestate in a way that indicates you believe what you're saying.

wooper
volpe
Menalque
Egix96
NorwegianboyEE

is v v likely the entire town.

@egix/menaphos i'd be really interested to see your stances on what's happening here. it feels super transparent to me but like, i literally know wicked's alignment

anyone keen to run thru this and talk a little?
if anyone is seeing a scummier agenda from volpe i'd be interested
if anyone is seeing this as clearly town!wicked i'd be interested
if anyone has concerns i'd be interested

fmpov i know for a fact i'm town, know for a fact wicked is lying scum and am praying that volpe is town so like... this is an incomplete solve and i need help... and no one is talking to me about reads / solving...

if you think i'm scum please come pressure me so that i break under the pressure and scumslip and we can all lynch me for happy end

[Wooper]

no worries

[Wooper]

i omitted a lot of my stuff @you about wicked there
if you can towncase him i'll be super happy to talk abt it

[Wooper]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81030

Fresh scum meta for the love of my life volpe, hot off the press

[Wooper]

Is it bad I'd consider tw/volpe/wicked before tw/volpe/nor?

[Wooper]

@skitter you check out baton pass?

[Wooper]

skitter sorry to like appeal to ability but if this is a towngame you're like... peculiarly tunnelled

it'll be a good one to talk about post-game if you are anyway

[Wooper]

so step outside that and read his slot holistically

[Wooper]

What does someone have in their mind to put 3-man team + SK vs 9 town to be honest?

It's literally broken imo.

C9++ is a super shitty setup, I joined because this plist is dynamite

[Wooper]

The Resistance Gang:

....this is still so cute

just realised were another day in and skitter is still heavily confbiased without reevaluating.... I'm gonna find a very wise post from one of my favourite scummers to summarise how I feel rn

[Wooper]

sigh

^ this is the one

[Wooper]

yeah agreed.

[Wooper]

also agree lynching in the cop claims is correct
I'm a bit too drained to tryhard a full solve quite yet

[Wooper]

Wooper I literally had a post a couple pages ago listing scum teams for everybody's POV. Why are you not reading it

I did read it
it was fine
can we lynch scum now :{

[Wooper]

Egix if you want to jam hmu. I don't really feel like I need to fullsolve indignantly today but I think what wicked has been doing has been really transparent. Again the fact he's noped out of the game here now that the gamestate calls for earnest hard solving, when he has higher than usual lynch equity, is very telling that solving the game is not in his best interests.

not 100% sold on town!volpe but he's ~probably~ town if wicked is scum. he's driving the gamestate in a way that's probably kinda frustrating if you're not convinced yet. But he's here.

I'm *still* waiting for someone to explain to me how they're townreading wicked. I think his conduct this phase has been transparently scum driven and the fact we have a core of 3 people who see it, 3 people who stubbornly refuse to see it and won't tell me why they think he's town, wicked himself, and conftown!Egix tells me more than I need to know.

ngl I'm at a point where I don't give a whole lotta fucks anymore. if you make the wrong call it's fine. but I think there's enough content to make the right call

[Wooper]

volpe if you and wicked are pulling some next level shit scum theatre your entire goal today is to score a lynch off you two. Wicked is confscummed to me. I'm not moving my vote off wicked ever ever ever ever ever.

If you get a lynch on DDL it's gonna have wolves on it.

[Wooper]

lookin forward to it wick

[Wooper]

I'm not gonna apologise for being careful with reads and wanting to lynch someone I literally know is scum over someone who is likely to be aligned with them. :/

If this runs to deadline I will lynch you over no lynch because I don't have 100% info that you're town. I think you are and I'd rather not lynch you but if this is actually a tantrum where you're pissing your wincon away because I didn't locktownread you, you need to check your priorities wrt townplay.

[Wooper]

I don't disbelieve you volpe. You're pushing a moot point. Get your vote back on the guy we both literally know is scum.

[Wooper]

Nah I would rather be lynched here and we lose game to stick lessons than endure skitter saying rubbish about "menalque doesn't do this as scum" tomorrow, they trying to pivot or needing to convince anyone including you that it's drdol/mena.

i think it's very likely ddl/mena.
i'll evaluate when i don't feel like i'm staring down the barrel of losing the game

[Wooper]

Ok but take a breather and come back fighting ready. You can’t let town go to the dogs in this critical hour Volpe.

^
i have comments volpe, but i'm not going to make them. we can talk about this postgame.

[Wooper]

ditto.

[Wooper]

VOTE: wicked

[Wooper]

wouldn't ask for anything different.

[Wooper]

just dawned on me if skitter is SK she wants to run this to deadline so there's more people the scumteam need to nk to win lol

[Wooper]

you ignored all of the interesting points I made about you and instead chose to...self meta and virtue signal...?

town!you here is in a vicious 1v1 with the very cute volpe over my alignment; you have a team to solve around me and fypov that's me + volpe + someone else. given your analytical playstyle I'd think it'd suit you just fine going back over the game for associative tells since fypov you've got 2/3 of the scumteam CAUGHT

scum!you is at risk of losing that 1v1 with the very cute volpe and just needs to make sure if that does happen that whoever you're aligned with doesn't tank

it's like... transparent to me which one you're doing...

[Wooper]

what's your takeaway from baton pass?

[Wooper]

hmm

pedit: wasn't in it, read along for a bit. i had some of the scum dead to rights d1 but got a bit sidetracked. don't think i would've been right either

[Wooper]

Just back yourself Egix. Making the wrong call and learning is part of the game sometimes.

[Wooper]

Chemmy were probably looking at a scumteam of {wickedwitch, drdofuckall, menafarts} with sk!skitter trying to stall the phase out into no lynch so she's not the only priority nk

Egix is conftown. fmpov you're lowest scum equity slot left which isn't confirmed. Nor is kinda obvtown by play

either way we're roughly in evens unless skitter is having the worst towngame in her entire career so I hope you like memeing and awaiting our eventual horrible death

[Wooper]

I was trying to remember who the eighth slot was
then I remembered
it's me, wooper
(:

[Wooper]

I'LL EAT YOU FROM THE INSIDE OUT

[Wooper]

i had 3 whoppers for lunch today i can handle you

are you alright btw?

[Wooper]

DDL just like. looks like obvscum on chem repin

[Wooper]

does cop get a guilty on SK? thought it was just groupscum

[Wooper]

o ya of course