Open 789: Two-Fold 2d3 [Game Over]

[Bell]

Hello!
Catching up.

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Jesus christ

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Only half way mena. I kind of agree with Dann here.
Initial read has haven as townish again.
You seem like a carbon copy of all the games i’ve played with you.
I think this is a corner scum game. But I don’t think i’ve Seen you take pot shots there yet, why?

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Dramonic is weird to me. Half the time he has a townie mindset. The other half he seems to be full of shit. But I don’t know what the shit is for.

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I’m full of shit half the time.

Walk me through the haven accusation and aftermath.

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From your perspective

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The children version.

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Please don’t, they’ll ground me.

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Are you going to walk me through your perspective or am I just going to have to take your words at face value?

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You know, because of the formatting I entirely missed your kids version/spoon feeding.
Buffering.

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I like me too.
Why do you like me Hiraki?

@dunstral, what ya doin?

@dranonic: you know what, you’re actually right.

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VLA till Monday. Helping brother move into student housing. Will probably still post. just will be limited.

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@teacher: i’ll Read more closely, I don’t disagree with the crux of play style thoughts it but in last game haven had both pro-town/pro social posting along with fluff because he was active enough to do both.
@Dunnstral, you are cute!

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Why is duun at 2 votes while being V/LA? Like, that's really not a productive wagon

Dann is v/la, dunstral is not

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I was talking about a previous game I played with him here.
I just looked through the first game town game of his at MU. The games are shorter so there appears to be a lot less fluff. I’ll go through the other two * feel kind of weird. I have juuuusssst enough time where i’m Not sure i’ll Really be acting v/la but i’m Putting it up anyway.
@jake 788# yeah I noticed that, this was a Crux of my town read on him. But it could have been a semi clever plant and draconic has a point. I actually do like the idea of talkin it out with mena and 50. And you know, anybody else.

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I'm not sure why Jackie is trying to intimidate Hiraki into answering questions here, but I don't think it's working. :X

No, it’s clearly working.

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The day length feels very long.

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Mena, answer my question i’ll Get it for you.

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Only half way mena. I kind of agree with Dann here.
Initial read has haven as townish again.
You seem like a carbon copy of all the games i’ve played with you.
I think this is a corner scum game. But I don’t think i’ve Seen you take pot shots there yet, why?

[Bell]

Half way caught up. I’m all the way caught up now. My eyes glazed over some of the walls.

Dann felt that center stage was occupied by town and that the periphery was occupied by scum.

Two games. But I wasn’t playing in one of them.

Corner means lower activity/lurking.
Potshots simply means wagoning/pressuring lurkers.

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If I had two votes, I would have another on Gypx.

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Favoritism.

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It’s a good thing i’m not voting him then.

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I’m kinda worried she’s going to be in eternal catch up mode.
And I can’t read that. Except as maybe a cognitive load sign, but that’s reaching.

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My attitude is just to try to transcribe whatever style they’re working in plain language and then read them with that in mind.

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Though jake’s posts are twice as long as they need to be and that makes my brain sad.

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Everyone.

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teacher is being v. Pro social and trying to create harmony(on first impression, except one kinda weird post he made), so what are you seeing dunn?

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Gimmick’s don’t drop their gimmicks just because the chips are down.

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Hiraki is a viable counter wagon. Didn’t you just say that like 10 posts ago.

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If I were a gimmick account I would fall and die on that sword.
You have more experience than me so i’ll take that under consideration. But that’s not a life changing take for me.

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Sometimes repeating that they’re scum till you’re blue in the face works.
But you’ll have to scream extra extra loud to drown out the owl

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My vote is sitting on hiraki almost entirety because my entrance waan’t Likable at all. And he’s insane or scum trying to get my vote off him.

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I dunno. Maybe he’s not.
I thought he was. But I didn’t look because he seemed practiced at it.

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I don’t mean it literally. I mean you just repeat it in different ways and shapes until you unlock the magical interpretation that works for other townsfolk.

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Are we in rvs rn Dunn. Because that looks like an rvs level accusation.

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Really loud.

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And I didn’t say you said it was townie either

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Do you even know who I am!?

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I don’t, hi.
Thanks for not ignoring me, the second time.

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You can take the insanity, but it won’t change the color of your boxers.

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I try not to have heroes.
They tend to end up in scandals because they’re humans.

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Idols are idolized.
But friends are cool.

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I feel like Hiriki is distant. Also rhetoric is performative, but using it negatively in a way that Draco is not.

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The owl is sad.

But Hiriki looked at the false dilemma of insanity or scum and didn’t think he was town. So took insanity.

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Okay marashu have a good night.

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I was making fun of your post right above it. Because of the “me,

ME

” bit you were doing.
Yup I do have a little edge.

What are you reading me as?

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Jake yawned, his eyes drooped.
“I am night posting”
“I’m null on that slot”

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Phone post.
@test: Teach #294 seemed AI, I tend to read these types of engagements that way but never feel confident that I learned one way or the other which it is because that put a lot of effort into how they worded that post(or they’re really well practiced!) There’s some performance or using key words from an educated stand point. Kind of like how a politician would say “I hear you” because it shows empathy. But rereading his iso gave me a whole bunch of detailed thoughtful analysis and it breaks my brain that anyone could see that as scum Rn.

Whoever asked about the dunstral rvs take, it’s because it’s a single post, I can barely see what he’s saying when viewed from that lens. And it’s absolutely not the kind of thing that would break my read on a player for one post that was maybe phoned in a little.

@deaconic there’s a lot to be sad about *back pat*

[Bell]

I really need to read this back and forth between Hiraki and noir jake.

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Also I read this set up and realized that I think town almost never wins this format and harmony and building a tyrannical town block that steam rolls the other two teams is probably the key to victory.

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VOTE: dunstral

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Oh, I think I get it.
He’s saying he has a limited amount of time in life and the idea that he can increase his play time due to pressure is asking too much of him? Or something.

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None of those links work.


Hi Marashu, why are you leading with “I want to pressure Bell to see if he’s town or not”
To everyone? Including me.

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And why are you declaring your intention?

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You’re saying in general non-invested town could be playing like dunn
Then saying specifically that Dunnstral, because you have a high opinion of him, wouldn’t play like this if he rollled scum?
I was and am willing to wait until he reads the thread and gets caught up.
But that vote on mena seems toxicish, I want him to explain what he meant.

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Is he really voting you, for voting him while admitting you’re only voting him to get him to post more?
It seems at the lowest to be manipulative and not intended to hit scum

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You sound like you’re talking about optimal play versus what actually happens in games.

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Confidence interval on Hiraki?

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VOTE: Hiraki

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Not feeling gamma scum.

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Possibly? Are you on the floor or not?

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You’re definitely on the floor.

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You read your own iso?

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He said he liked my entrance, not that it was townie. And he didn’t give a read after I asked him for one.

Dann, when you lay out why you’re scum reading someone they tend to respond to it.

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Wrong for the right reasons.
Right for the wrong reasons.
If i’m Right once then my credibility goes up.
I’m not a white knight. Or a prophet.
But people’s brains are not so good.

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Jake is hard to read for me. He’s asking questions, explaining himself, defending himself, but nothing seems unique to me.

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Does dannflorr always think out loud?

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He’a pinged my scumdar twice by thinking outloud.

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Bell is your alt outed? (I think you said do you know who I am at some point, apologies if fuzzy memories misled me)

Nono, it’s a trope.
“Do you know who I am!?” Was in response to what hiraki said above me. It’s short hand in some television to introduce thugs with that line screen to present a character as entitled/evil. It’s kind of lazy writing because it presents people as 2 dimensional.
Last played here 6 years ago.

Busy. Post later.

[Bell]

Does dannflorr always think out loud?

I tend to try to be as transparent with my thoughts as possible yes

Hmm. Sometimes i see scum write out loud so that they stay in character. Rather they think about how’d they play as town and forget to put the script down.

[Bell]

Don’t have time to meta this rn.
Other people’s thoughts?
@teacher see it. Thx.

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i’m hearing you complaining about cliques here draconic.
Is that a correct interpretation.

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I’m seeing a pattern of you trying to break up any consolidation of town reads.

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I’m seeing a back and forth romance between hiraki and dramonic. That is frankly kind of townie. Because, not really seeing much in the way of manipulation of trust.

Nah, both jake and hiraki are high info elims, but the goal is to hit scum this round. Being subjective and biased about it isn’t doing it for me.

[Bell]

Meh, i’ll be patient. In a normal game I would be good with an elimination here.
I ask we eliminate someone 2-3 days before deadline.

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Draconic and hiraki aren’t buddies.
Shocking. I know.

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VOTE: dannflorr
It’s never easy.

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Confirmation bias is a terrible thing.
But yeah, it crossed my mind.

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Dunno how you play it, but in general if the most active town start talking to each other they sometimes start to form a pseudo block. Or scum can get worried about it and try to break it up.

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I’m trying to get a feel for mena and Dann etc.
why would us uniting be more reasonable?

Dann is my first real scum read tbh. And it’s based on very little.

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Also, why would you need to assume dramonic is scum to have them unite against him?

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Nah, I realized I was being illogical by thinking draconic could interfere or was trying to interfere in our interactions.

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Dann is my first real scum read tbh. And it’s based on very little.

Did you get a chance to meta me or is this based on the recent posts from that pinged you?

Little bit of both.

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Sigh.
What’s with this disrespect?

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Oh, at least this one realizes he’s being impulsive.

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Still townie impulsive on second look. But maybe conf bias.

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Jake, I need help.
Do you mean hiraki is projecting?

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Or that he’s misrepping you?

Pedit: I suspect this is true where they’re very independent. I do think honest communication might be able to reconcile players reads on one another and lead to more accurate reads though. But this probably requires someone to hit the reset button in a way that I don’t know how to do

[Bell]

No.
I’m not particularly interested in altering their level of credibility in a game where people are wrong pretty often.
If draconic is not delusional, he’s just using rhetoric to control the game in the way he wants it to move by acting more confident than he really is.

I want to be right.

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I’m not saying there isn’t an initial feeling of annoyance when I read his posts similarly to when I read hiraki,
But I don’t want that to alter the trajectory of my votes because I don’t like how they write.

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Maybe hiraki or draconic will get shot and you won’t have to worry about it.

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Clidd was. Heh.

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Yeah, but skitter literally had the entire town as scum and the scum as town and she still got shot.

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You’re prob not wrong, but I could see draconic since nobody is really scum reading him.

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Been phone posting entirely in San Francisco. So autocorrect is having its way.

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Maybe one of draconic’s mafia idols is radiantcowbells.

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Yep! He was around back then. I played with him twice.

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based on the one newbie game I iso’d Him in he’s actually gotten better since then.

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So? I can appreciate players who are more accurate than I am. Regardless of when they started. Irrelevant though.

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Ooh scum slip. He’s saying he knows you’re town Hiraki.
Also, not really jake.

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Paradoxically you’re voting hiraki while saying she has compatriots.

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He*

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Weak.

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Hope springs eternal.
A peer isn’t a synonym of compatriot.

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Brother in arm’s isn’t either.

Mena has a scum read on hiraki, I don’t think he has one of dramonic?

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A50, why the focus here?

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Sorry to derail you if you think this is helping.
But this reads a lot like criticism rather than scum hunting.

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What do you think of dann a50?

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Take it as a request to direct your attention there so I can see if i’m off base with my read of him then.

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Welcome.

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Take it as a request to direct your attention there so I can see if i’m off base with my read of him then.

OK, he's not a top priority. Not too high on my read list but not in my bottom 2

Thank you.

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I see, what do you think of the votes on you?

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Marashu doesn’t have lurk activated. He’s not here.

I have no comment on the last two pages.

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Oh. I can talk about marashu,
Not sure if his post is genuinely chastened or just survivalism.

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It reads fine both ways. Middle paragraph is a little weird and the SVS thought is bizarre.
He’s presenting himself as pretty upfront. It sounds like he’s new as either alignment?

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Are you saying that penguin is better than me and gamma combined.
Rude.

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Scummy to townie left to right I think.

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I was joking because > can mean more than.

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Bell nobody has interest in your vanity wagon. Do useful things w your vote.

Really. I hadn’t noticed.

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I figure the jake elimination will fill on its own, and i’m not particularly interested in my own alignment.
Marashu wagon is easy. But see nothing concrete.

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UNVOTE: My last post ~never happpened~

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VOTE: Jake

E-1. Willing to discuss.

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Is hiraki a low survivalism vote?

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@Gamma: Probably town. I talked myself out of him interfering with town talking to town, though teacher brought it up again. There is a natural underlying, not progression of reads per se, but a simmering opinion about how other players are treating him and each other. I think the shit he throws and the confidence displayed is an act with possibly town motivation, such as defending a town read and pushing against anybody who disagrees in a way that isn’t really in his interest if he is scum.

I played here 6 years ago on an old account that i’m not interested in reviving. I played Salem and was horrific at it. 3 rl games. It think I played about 10-20 games here before leaving.

[Bell]

I think he just claimed VT.

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Not earth shattering, but there’s clear motivation to fake claim a PR in this situation.

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I wonder how many times dramonic has played this way as scum and watched town wifom themselves out of thinking he’s scum because he’s acting abrasive.

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May I not be added to the list.

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..do you really wanna get into a theory discussion at E-1.
Wanna share a reads list??

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I don’t have much confidence in your accuracy, so you’re going to have to give ~reasons~ for those reads, if you would be so kind as to share.

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Maybe you can tell us more tomorrow?

That penguin is hurting my self esteem man

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UNVOTE:

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Why did I ever think you were scum dann.
I must have have had a stroke.

Going to bed.

[Bell]

I did.

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I suspect you aren’t reading the game very throughly Jake.
Sigh I just don’t know about jake. It’s kind of one of those “Well, he’s not doing anything to keep himself alive rn”
Which bends further into that lack of survivalism, I don’t agree with the hiraki vote not being survivalism or being construed as survivalism. But how he’s playing now definitely puts him into the non-survivalism camp.’

Jake, put on your private eye hat and true again.

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Sorry if you’re town btw I kind of hate this sort of elimination. Because if I were a better player I would know what you were instead of putting the onus on you to show it.

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@Mena Jake wasn’t doing anything that was blowing me away I figured it would be the same for others so I wanted to see who would vote Jake for more info on them later.
@I don’t see anything that particularly makes me think Marushu is scum. I was contrasting the easy Mara wagon because I suspect marashu is new, andhe might put his foot in his mouth versus the vote I was placing on Dan which is not easy. And now I think, dumb.
#1274 shifted my read so I moved off and made a move on jake to progress.

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@Mena Jake wasn’t doing anything that was blowing me away I figured it would be the same for others so I wanted to see who would vote Jake for more info on them later.

so, definitely not a scum slip, right? just checking

Glad you seem interested in the game again.
Definitely not. Or else I would have taken the wagon.

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He’s been in the lobby for awhile, I’m hoping he’s writing a noir novel that solves the game.

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What do you think of testarossa?

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That lines up with a natural progression over the last 3-4 days since I joined.in regards to your reads anyway.

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Why are you voting marashu?

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Reality check:
1. I justify my absence a lot. I also think it's relatively human to say "I'm trying to think about X" when in fact, they're saying "I'm telling myself I need to think about X but I'm overwhelmed so this is like a book mark for later, that, if I can summon the will, I will get back to this" This is, ofc, a cognitive load sign, but that works either way depending on what is happening irl, what they're thinking about ingame, etc. I know that's not exactly what he said, but I think the spirit of it is there.
2. counter point: I'm not sure what he gets as scum for going off and voting someone else to justify his activity versus looking at what everyone else is voting and sharing a take about it.
3. Vanity wagon is a new term for me. Is it a vanity wagon to vote who you think is a scum read just because your own opinion has shifted out of alignment with everyone else's? Agree that the push is pretty empty and that announcing it is poor play(kind of, but it happens a lot). Billy did the same thing tho and he was town. *shrug*
4. Survivalism vote was noted, still not sure if he was just chastened or scum (or both) both explanations work to me.
5. Huh.

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1. Ah, this is a scum hunting philosophy difference. I try not to use scum or town tells because I feel it divorces context. It might be good for statistical hunting, but I prefer whatever sherlock holmes does (I am not a very good scum hunter as you might have noticed).
2. I guess?
3. Thanks for defining it. Probably not, on Dan no. I only articulated one reason why I thought he was scum. I revisited his ISO and the feeling was vague but some more reasons started to come to me. But as of the last day or two I find it harder to believe he would be this facilitative if he was scum.

[Bell]

Huh, thanks.
This seems like a real scum hunting perspective to me. I think he believes what he's saying, I don't agree with the tells he's using. If he's trying to hide his partner in that list, I don't see it.
The dramonic read is the worst of the bunch imo and there's nothing like an attempt to understand him in that read. Which could be scum.

[Bell]

Town:
Mena
Drammonic

Lean town:
Hiraki, Teacher,
weak lean town:
Gamma, Dann
Superweak lean town:
Jake.
Null: Marashu, Penguin.
Weak scum: Dun, Testa, Almost50.

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1. I think one of the smartest things RC ever said was "don't look for what you think scum would do in games, look at what they actually do" and that's what I think this is, and why I think tells can be valuable when they're good. If was amazing at deduction/induction w/e then I would do things that way. But I'm not that good, and I think there are a couple of really good people who approach the game from a "look at what scum actually do in games" perspective and some of them have really, really high accuracy (like elli, RC)
2. I mean, do you disagree? Like do you get a vibe that he really doesn't care how he's perceived and just wants to introduce some fuckin scum to the choppy boi?
3. What were the reasons that were pinging you in the first place again?

1. Empirical evidence and a good method of analysis are probably the most reliable way to hunt mafia.
2. I don't disagree that he's aware about how he looks. Announcing and declaring his intention is communication 101. It's just that everybody doesn't play maverick town.
3. Dannflorr sometimes wrote his posts like he was thinking out loud, it was something I saw in whitelion too. Though with whitelion it was every other post and there was a lot of other issues there. After reisoing I noticed a general trend of not trying to cross other players that made me think he was being polite scum. Teacher is sort of doing the same thing, but in contrast he seems to brush aside areas of conflict to retrieve what he wants, whereas I don't think that's how Dannflorr is approaching it. That said, I changed my mind, but it will be in the back of my head.

[Bell]

I also noticed or think I noticed but maybe I'm misremembering that he seemed unusually responsive to criticism or would adjust his play after someone mentioned a scum tell. Kind of like watching someone adapt in real time to people's preferences.

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Mena has posted the most, he's wildly vacilitating emotionally but not in a way that serves scum at all, I don't even think the Jake vote was scummy even though, realistically, it should be. His reads have evolved the most in the game if you ignore hiraki and when you poke into his reads you find a rationale that's distinctly his own. He's created unique perspectives on all the players and I'm not sure that scum really need to do that.
Dramonic, I explained earlier. I just don't see it and dannflorr added to that.

Hiraki read only evolved over the last few days I keep getting hit over the head with posts that seem if not insightful, at least involved. His reads as Dann mentioned WERE stale, but then he quickly updated them in a process that was less "I have reads now" and more like he moved from A to B to C as he played. Which he might not have done under pressure. It could just be that he adapted to what people were saying and he eventually realized he was gunna die if he didn't do something more. mmm Maybe down grade to weak.
Mentioned Teacher, already, would add that he is looking at dramonic similarly to how I was before talking myself out of it. You can see who's to blame, but I don't think it was an unnatural or forced stance for dramonic to take if you see his opinions on the playerlist.

Going to walk my dog.

[Bell]

Gamma her catch ups are uniquely not scum to me, or at least not like any scum catch up I've ever seen before. He's willing to cross anyone, get in their face with his opinion and is interactive when he's around.

Mentioned Dann my initial read was vaguely scummy, he was thinking outloud an after meta'ing a single town game of his I didn't see an instance of even him doing it there. Then it went into abstract stuff I just mentioned. Points towards town is interactive, generating/updating reads (though I think he of all people based on his constant use of stale reads as a scum tell would be the most self-aware of that), but it doesn't really look like he's watching and waiting either. Already mentioned helpfulness, trying to create harmony, doesn't seem particularly afraid of interacting with any players.

Talked about Jake. leaned weak scum to neutral and then last few posts turned into weak town lean due to vague feelings that I've been here before and this doesn't end well for town. If he's scum the "I hope this helps if I die" was a nice touch.

Marashu: For every reason he is scum there's a townie or NAI reason he isn't.
Penguin: I don't really need to explain this do I.

Dunstral he's playing worse than the one newbie game I played with him. He's clearly thread avoiding, but he knows this. So I'm just like, wut. Could be coasting scum unengaged or something else, I dunno. He did just kind of zoom in when Jake got to E-1, which was nice. He said he would catch up in the game and he really isn't I don't think he plans too?

A50: Possible coasting scum, cognitive overload, minor thread avoidance but he explained why this may be and I can see that reason. His focus seems outside of scum hunting RN. In general I think it's anti-town not to share reads when directly asked, but town have done it to me before so meh.

Testarossa. Kind of the same coasting scum routine. I don't really see anything wrong in what she's written per se, but the post frequency is a lot like A50/Dunn/Marashu I'd like to interact with her more, but she posts and leaves like Marashu which makes that difficult.

[Bell]

I also noticed or think I noticed but maybe I'm misremembering that he seemed unusually responsive to criticism or would adjust his play after someone mentioned a scum tell. Kind of like watching someone adapt in real time to people's preferences.

people get annoyed at me in real life because I tend to adjust my wants to fit the wants of others

it's a character flaw

although I'm somewhat trying to use mafia to get better at that + confrontation

Huh. Good to know.

[Bell]

Thanks Penguin. Have any thoughts on Jake?

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Kinda sorta extremely sad that marashu looked at the game and decided his post for the day should be that one.

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@dunstral, what ya doin?

idk, feelin' kinda cute, might read the thread soon

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I don't think you're clear, but I also don't think you're the worst offender, and there are better places for me to be placing my focus. At the very least, I no longer think that your early position in the Mena/Hiraki discussion was scummy.

Well, who are you looking at?

Huh, thanks.
This seems like a real scum hunting perspective to me. I think he believes what he's saying, I don't agree with the tells he's using. If he's trying to hide his partner in that list, I don't see it.
The dramonic read is the worst of the bunch imo and there's nothing like an attempt to understand him in that read. Which could be scum.

You do realize the entire readlist is just people voting him are null to scum, people not voting him are town

I didn't unvote him till after he posted his barely efforty effort post. But yes, I realized this. Though, I feel like lots of players end up with reads lists where everyone giving them a hard time is scum and everyone who isn't, is town.

[Bell]

....Does that rly count?

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^I like this post.

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Newbie question.
Why is it that having somebody claim VT means we have to commit to that elimination? I've always just measured the claim, I actually think fake claims are beneficial towards town in the short term because you get a near guaranteed elimination when someone counters them because nobody counters day 1 as scum.

[Bell]

Thanks.
Anybody interested in wagoning A50 instead of those two?

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VOTE: A50

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Look, if you want me to sheep you all game, you're going to need to do more than nag.
I was raised by my grandma, I'm an expert at dealing with it.

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Still amazed that people are actively ignoring how Menalque's read of you mysteriously going from supertown to probscum.
Excellent town play all around this game.

Are you talking about/to Hiraki or Jake?
If hiraki he moved from scum to lean scum.
If Jake, then yeah he moved from prob town to lean scum.

Is it scummy for Mena's read to change here?
Why?

[Bell]

Engaging with scum is mostly white noise.

By talking to Jake are you saying that he's not scum here, or?

[Bell]

Okay I think I’m at like

Dann, teacher - town
Umlaut, haven
Testa - townlean
Dunn - basically null but marginally above the other two
Gypx, A50 - null
Crush - true null
Dram - scummy
Hikari - scum

Dann, teacher
Umlaut, testa, dram
Triple, marashu
A50
Gypx, dunn
Gamma
Hiraki

Went down slightly

Has your read on Jake's slot evolved at all since TH replaced out?

I think that his entrance is prob +town?

Idk I think bell was going back and forth with me on this, but I’m somewhat doubtful that Jake reps in as top wagon and thinks “yes, this is an optimal game for me to do my gimmick in!” As opposed to doing tryhardy posting

Flip side, despite being committed to the gimmick he has been kinda tryhardy

Mostly a big fat idk. I think you had a point that I don’t have town!meta on haven to make a comparison to, but she just felt townie and I like, hate the pressure on that slot apart from testa (And tbh testa’s vote there coupled with low activity is the main reason testa isn’t in my top tier of TRs)

Down to I don't know (but not confident).

(mara, dunn, testa, Jake) ~(hiraki > A50) ~~(PP > bell/gamma) ----- dram > teacher > dann, me

Bottom of the pile. Could ask about the shift here.

I think my scumpool is now

(Mara, dunn, A50, testa) ~(jake > hiraki) ~~(PP > gamma/dram) ---- (Bell > teacher > dann > me)

Back up a bit. Hiraki moved up too.

[Bell]

@Bell: I'm gonna assume you're intentionally playing stupid.

Kind of.
Oh, Mena repped out.
So much for that.

[Bell]

^ Nah, unrelated. Can't comment.

[Bell]

Is there anything particularly important to keep in mind when I'm catching up?

It's multiball. Did you replace into a lurk scum slot?

A50, your move here.

@Dann, Yeah. Pretty much. I will lose my shit if it turns out he was scum this whole time.

[Bell]

Triple Haven = TH.
Yeah Dramonic talked around him, but Mena didn't.
Why ask a question like that in a QT When you can just ask that to the player list and act ignorant. If you have to post something, might as well post that.

[Bell]

Do you mean the penguin who can ban you with a thought.
The evil avatar guy
A50 who hates us and this thread.
Or Jake that stopped doing anything the second the votes kind of sort of moved off.

[Bell]

^ Pretty much. I don't think this is a game state thing since the only way to move my reads forward is to reread the thread again and I will die before that happens day 1.

[Bell]

VOTE: A50

VOTE: a50

VOTE: A50

I trust you two

Ffs

[Bell]

You’re fucking us if you’re town, you realize that right?

[Bell]

Well, see, I don’t know your alignment.

[Bell]

You’re also fucking your buddy if you’re scum but I don’t care about him.

[Bell]

K. You complained about fluff and then you fluff posted and thread avoided. Mena is town so I looked at what he said and thought “yeah maybe” and then I voted you to see what shook out.
You avoided the thread another day and then self voted. Lovely.

Jake read is vague asf. I just get bad vibes from it. Deja vu. But he’s not doing anything. So he’s Shifting back to I’ll for me.

[Bell]

Ewbop: null

[Bell]

I think I've finally pinpointed why it's hard for em to follow the game properly. Too much noise, too much fluff, and too much side conversations that have nothing to do with the game itself. My plan was simple: Sit back and try to read people to decide who was more likely to be scum, and who was more likely to be their p in that case. Who dramonic's idols are isn't helping (just an example of side conversations). Some players are composing some of their posts in a "Shakespearean" manner too, so to speak. Some are responding to posts without quoting what they're responding to when there had been intermediate posts between the two that are addressing something totally different.

I am sorry if I sound like an arse here, but the game has been really hard to follow when I wasn't able to use 100% of my concentration abilities.

[Bell]

That avatar is adorable.

[Bell]

Missed opportunity for a joke there.
He should have voted dramonic.
Would have played well with the conspiracy crowd.

[Bell]

It's not apparent to me.
BUt he'll probably do it eventually since Mena was town and he replaced into a town slot.

[Bell]

Sorry, what do you mean by "vote worthy to throw suspicion on me?"

[Bell]

Dramonic is my second strongest TR after Mena still.
It's hard for me to think he was acting when dumping that huge case on Haven in front of me with obvious exasperation.

pedit: Okay.

[Bell]

Second time I feel like these posts are out of time with one another.

The other was dramonic and the replace in post where he commented the replacement was fast.

[Bell]

No. I'm not an alt. I played here with 2 other accounts 6 years ago.

[Bell]

Ehh, if I can't access those accounts, am I an alt? I didn't play mafia except irl 3 times between 6 years and now.
Neither account has this avatar though and he rolled in feb 15, 2019

[Bell]

You're a mod so you'd know I suppose. Apologies for not registering correctly.

[Bell]

Re: game state - Scum may be happy, but they may also be waiting for the other team to make a move? Also, there was a pretty big change in the sudden wagon to A50 (which I don't really understand - @Bell, you gave your reasons earlier. Did the conversation between Mena and A50 shape any of that, or is that an independent read?)

It influenced it, read my reasons when A50 asked me again.

After this build-up, I'm hoping the "Chemist thing" lives up to its hype.

Oh I might actually think Almost50 is town too?

Penguin and Dannflor, walk me through your reasons for town reading A50?

[Bell]

Opps, wrote in the quote instead of out of it. Marushu, "It influenced it, read my reasons when A50 asked me why I was scum reading him."

[Bell]

Explain the scum read on Teacher.
I got one reason from dunstral.

[Bell]

Penguin and Dannflor, walk me through your reasons for town reading A50?

I gave mine last night

No, You said you liked meming with him and you wouldn't explain the other reason.

[Bell]

Did chem do the thing yet.

@Penguin, I just don't see a reason why hiding reasons you think A50 might be town helps us at all? Especially when he's not here and he isn't generating reasons for or against his elimination.

[Bell]

Key word is sustained there.

[Bell]

I agree with the first 3 lines, but disagree with your conclusion.

I'm much more inclined (or confbiased, if you feel that way about me) to think that the repeated half-assed attempts to swing a wagon somewhere else is indicative of Jake being scum.
1. His buddy doesn't want to lynch him and have to solo the game, especially cuz they can just lose to a lost bullet.
2. The opposing scumteam has no incentive to lynch him, he's exebait to them. (I'm aware this is true regardless of his alignment). Testing the waters on other wagons is much more beneficial to them.

If Jake was town any scum coulda just taken the easy hammer when it was available with little suspicion, and to be quite blunt his continued existence benefits both scumteam EVEN if he somehow flips town.

*rubs eyes* Did Dramonic just engage with someone? It's Christmas already?

I'm hearing a lot of pros and cons and opposite opinions about which are pros and which are cons for the scum teams. I'm not sure which to weigh more heavily.

Question, would it be more beneficial to us to wait for the other replacement and having them all catch up before eliminating someone or not?

Pedit: Okay. Mind answering that question?

[Bell]

@Teacher, when I think about it, it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to say and vote Jake at your level of skill for the stated reason. Try explaining your reasoning again. Maybe I'm just dumb though.

[Bell]

That's better Teacher. Okay.

Sure Chemist, I'm game.

[Bell]

Oh my god that is a hard question to answer for me. Part of me wants to hit Hiraki just because of how weird he's being with Dramonic, but that's more of a curiosity thing.

Jake<A50 < Dunn/RCE/PP < Teacher/Hiraki < Dann < Dramonic < Chemist.

[Bell]

Gamma probably slightly above Hiraki/Teacher.

[Bell]

Put him barely above the null slot pile due to a vague feeling of townieness.

[Bell]

I don't know how you can have an opinion on Gamma when you haven't read past when you replaced it.