Open 792: Masons and Monks GAME OVER

[dramonic]

VOTE: agar
LaL

[dramonic]

vote: hayasaka

Man this game is hard

[dramonic]

All have now confirmed

Early on, one claimed to both live in the monastery and work on the wall. Some didn't seem to believe him.

Votecount 1.01

Hayasaka (4):

Dunnstral, AGar, SirCakez, Elements

Not_Mafia (3):

Not_Mafia, Almost50, Hayasaka

AGar (1):

dramonic

Dunnstral (1):

davesaz

Elements (1):

The Bulge

Not Voting (3):

Malakittens, notscience, Xayah

With 13 in residence, it takes 7 votes to send someone down the mountain.
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-08-31 17:40:00)

I'm voting Hayasaka

2 down 2 to go~

Fixed that. I missed the switch to bold over vote tags, sorry. -brass

[dramonic]

2 down 2 to go~

What's this mean?

scum

Why are we wagoning hayasaka again

are you reading the game?

[dramonic]

WHAT HAPPENED TO NEUTRAL

[dramonic]

Dram how about we lynch Dave together.
Then I bus my partner for full town cred and proceed to be shot by the other team.

Why lynch 2 scum when you can get a 3rd one for free.
You have to think big.

You drive a good bargain. Ill think bout it

2 down 2 to go~

What's this mean?

scum

Uh, it doesn't mean anything unless you say something about who the 2 are. Even that says very little unless you also give some kind of reasoning.

ok

[dramonic]

Ya okay I'll bite

vote: davesaz

[dramonic]

This game is a mess. Why is there a wagon on mala?

[dramonic]

@dram

Thoughts on literally anything?

This game feels like a big clique experience.
On the plus side Dave is obvscum.

[dramonic]

Why is dave obvscum?

Scum:davesaz

?

[dramonic]

Why is dave obvscum?

Scum:davesaz

?

calling someone scum is different from calling them obvscum

The only difference is that I think it's obvious?
Do you need me to spoonfeed you your own read so you have something to fall back on when people question you later?

[dramonic]

stop being so hostlie

Stop asking question you already know the answer to?

[dramonic]

stop being so hostlie

Stop asking question you already know the answer to?

So you think dave is obvscum because he hasn't claimed town.
I don't believe you.

Just went and ISOed you. You don't actually have any listed reason for your dave scumread besides "he didn't claim town".

[REDACTED]

[dramonic]

I think notsci is town, but agree that MB is a factor so obv scumhunting doesn't automatically mean lock town.
I wouldn't approve of eliminating an obvious scumhunter early game. Someone who is active but not scumhunting is a better choice.

Christ I hope the fence isn't chafing you too hard.

[dramonic]

Not if my team is comprised of broken arms

[dramonic]

happy scumday dave.
You might be scum, but at least ya get a cake.

[dramonic]

Both made by scum faking apathy?

This is the gist of it, yes.

Neither of those are posts completely detached in a "hey I'll get to this soon," manner. Both of them comment on something game related but are a) severely fucking lacking and b) don't actually provide anything besides noise.

As opposed to the entire content of this game?
I signed up to play mafia and I'm looking at a memes and fuckery fest, so it's less apathy and more disdain really :3

[dramonic]

Mixed feelings on 58. Seems intended to make progress, but not terribly inspiring.
Very mixed feelings on 60. That's a lot of explanation. Being clear, or appearing to be clear?

Super wishywashy and non-commital

Mixed feelings on 58. Seems intended to make progress, but not terribly inspiring.
Very mixed feelings on 60. That's a lot of explanation. Being clear, or appearing to be clear?

I don't particularly like this post from Davesaz he is hedging a ton in this post.
I think either of these could be described as scum indicative but he is choosing not to for no real reason.

Because you hide behind the anonymity of an alt I don't know if you know me or not.
Accuracy is important in this game. Anyone who has seen me play knows I approach every early game this way.

Notscience can have a short pass on this since it has almost certainly been years since we have played.

Meta bull defense, actions in previous games do not excuse your actions in this one. "Oh I alwasys do this" is not a valid defense to scumplay.

So town hedge but they leave discussion open to say "why do you think that". But the post I quoted basically closes that off. It's just straight hedging to state thoughts without anyone being able to claim you actually have any down the line I guess?

The way I do this is to state what I think, and see what questions or conversation comes from it.

Translation: "I plan to make empty statements and latch onto people actually doing shit!"

2 down 2 to go~

What's this mean?

scum

Uh, it doesn't mean anything unless you say something about who the 2 are. Even that says very little unless you also give some kind of reasoning.

White noise. What's even the point of those statements?

VOTE: dramonic
We've had this conversation before. Talk or get eliminated.

voting for butthurt. Very pro-town!

You didn't commit to any opinions

Why would I want to commit to an opinion that I don't have?
This is how I bring attention to things that I don't have opinions on, for the express purpose of getting an opinion.

I think the way you question it is town motivated, but your approach to what it means is just wrong.

More empty words hoping for something to latch on. Last line is some heavy placating garbo as well.

I mean... Isn't that the exact shit you're accusing dave of? Posting noncommittal shit that can just be handwaved away?

Because my post was intended to be a shit post. Dave's wasn't.

I think that's clearly different?

Actually, that moves you down a bit. Not enough to change the read.
It's explicitly bad for town to shit post, in terms of game solving. Since I don't really participate (much) in the social aspect I take a dim view of posting that isn't meant to be taken at face value.

Non-commital threats are non-commital.

73

The first vote count with the l-2 wagon. Brass has great vote counts that show you the last vote add by a specific player. So you can follow the links to each of the constituents of the hayasaka wagons.

We have-
Meta
Bringing something up and not articulating
Newb scum
Definitely doesn’t like axolotls
“Game is hard”

Which is such a broad rainbow of reasons it doesn’t really seem credible. Hence my confusion.

I agree that looking at this is a good idea.
What's your take on those 5 players?
I'm not keeping track yet, it's too early for that, so I'll have to look. If I don't get hammered by work I'll try to do that today.

More void post asking for other people to do all the work for him. Gosh it's a theme or something

I'd like a little more help in my crusade against people who refuse to talk about anything useful to the game.

Something something someone else do the work for me

I'd like a little more help in my crusade against people who refuse to talk about anything useful to the game.

What IS useful in a game like this? (Serious question)

Wagoning people, and in particular big wagons, to see what happens.

VOTE: Malakittens
Guess I'd better take my own advice, time's ticking.

Yeah no that's just wrong.

Low hanging fruit.
Unfortunately that's the only thing this game has right now.

Cop-out statement is a cop-out

Eh, pushing non-contributors is one of my regular things regardless of gamestate. Right now seeing how people react to the "-2"^* is almost the only thing we have going.
I'm generally against eliminating^* lurkers as lurkers if there is a better choice, but there's nothing wrong with trying to spark someone to action.

^*Hard to remember to scrub posts for terminology.

More meta bull defense, more cop-out preparation

Did you really quote your predecessor THRICE and tried to manufacture a read on them??

Yes I noticed this immediately.

But I didn't comment on it because I might get attention

Just don’t, bad composition, don’t see the reason for her to be a leading wagon

Has she done anything particularly town?

That's not how that works.

Just because people could be LHF doesn't mean they can't get a scum role PM. How are people reading notsci? If this was single ball I'd be TRing them rn

I guess this is two separate thoughts, right?
The reason to avoid LHF is typically because little is learned from it, not because it lacks active scumminess.

I think notsci is town, but agree that MB is a factor so obv scumhunting doesn't automatically mean lock town.
I wouldn't approve of eliminating an obvious scumhunter early game. Someone who is active but not scumhunting is a better choice.

Super non-commital again. "I think they're town but maybe they're not!" is basically just empty words.

@dramonic squeezing your read harder isn't going to make me flip scum.
You could perhaps comment on someone else. If you're town it works a lot better to work with your team.

Deflection

nobody can even explain the reason for their vote other than A50's OMGUS so it seems pretty crap to me

Do you have any reads supported by evidence?

More waiting for others to produce content and lack of his own.



Happy AGar?
Can we stop fucking around and pretending Dave has done something this game besides cheering from the sideline?

[dramonic]

I'm the town

cheer

leader and you're full of bullshit.

ftfy

[dramonic]

Both made by scum faking apathy?

This is the gist of it, yes.

Neither of those are posts completely detached in a "hey I'll get to this soon," manner. Both of them comment on something game related but are a) severely fucking lacking and b) don't actually provide anything besides noise.

so as I see it dram has been not doing much all game, AGar called him out on it in kind of a snarky way, dram got a little ticked off and he pulls a 180, forcing a case on Dave

But it’s not really about Dave, it’s about AGar

AGar attempting to give me shit is very insulting when

nobody

has been producing content of any worth.
This whole "What are your thoughts on X? Oh hey I agree" routine yall have been spinning bores the every living shit out of me and holds little to no value to netting us scum. The point of the game is not to shoot the breeze with your pals.

[dramonic]

Not specifically at you/bulge ftr

[dramonic]

Seems to be more in touch and less catching up than RL balance issues would imply.

That's just not okay.

[dramonic]

Seems to be more in touch and less catching up than RL balance issues would imply.

That's just not okay.

Do you mean what I wrote is wrong, or that the thing I observed is scummy? I’m voting her still.

I mean that's not an okay avenue of questioning. It's sort of akin to tell someone they don't seem affected enough by RL stuff.

This game feels like a big clique experience.

[snip]
Sorry if it bores you/you dislike playing in games with this dynamic

This is my second game after a 2 year break.

@AGar: You're a jerk but I love you too.

[dramonic]

Do you find anything town about that readlist? like 80% of it is meta, which is the definition of an empty read.

[dramonic]

idk, i don't know dave's meta

some people just tend to focus a lot on meta? are you saying you find it scummy because you think he's just using meta to posture without actual opinions/analysis?

Meta encourages bad play and produces no evolution of thought. "Oh hey was stupid in Game X and was town" does not make it fine to be stupid in this one. If a player is being down you murder him with the fury of a thousand suns game after game until he stops being stupid or quits
Kind of a tangent cuz what's happening here is that Dave is just saying "meta town" on, well... everyone... to avoid doing anything substantial in this game.

[dramonic]

If a player is being down you murder him with the fury of a thousand suns game after game until he stops being stupid or quits

lmfao

guess i should quit

Obviously that should read as "if a player is being dumb"
No idea how I wrote down there cuz thats... Really harwh even by my standards xD

Do you find anything town about that readlist? like 80% of it is meta, which is the definition of an empty read.

Disagree

ok?

[dramonic]

Kind of a tangent cuz what's happening here is that Dave is just saying "meta town" on, well... everyone... to avoid doing anything substantial in this game.

Once again, wrong. I'm saying this only about A50, and specifically because I don't want him to know how I read him. Try taking off the filter you're putting on my posts and actually reading the content starting from no assumptions.

Fully from memory, in player list order. Gaps are for separating 1-liners from more extensive impressions, not for read grouping:

Almost50 - I think he's town based on a meta factor that I'm unwilling to let him know what it is
AGar - Seems to have opinions which are reasonable based on things in the thread

Malakittens - Claims to have RL balance issue, which is something I wouldn't doubt. Seems to be more in touch and less catching up than RL balance issues would imply. If she's unwilling / unable to push someone that she normally would via meta that could be a sign that she's scum with nothing to push. I don't know her meta well enough to know what she would push.

dramonic - Focus within the thread is a little narrow, but it fits what I know about his meta. Don't remember if I have seen him as scum and not inclined to go digging just yet.

The Bulge - Conversations seem to be town motivated
SirCakez - Extremely typical meta wise. Bad early takes don't make him scum by themselves. I'll need to read again with more context.
notscience - Conversations seem to be town motivated
Elements - I don't know if scum!Elements has the chops to be so brazenly clueless. Fits with meta, don't know if I have seen a scum game.

Xayah - Falling far below expectations but I can't remember if she has given a RL in this game. Perhaps a bit suspicious?
davesaz - Pretty obviously town if I don't mind saying so myself
Dunnstral - Very standard for meta, very unreadable, very null
InnocentVillager

Hayasaka

- If there weren't a join date to prove it wrong, I'd swear this is a new player. Seems rather lost and inconsistent. I had no meta on predecessor despite her apparently being well known to others in the player list. Feels a little suspicious.

Not_Mafia - Very standard for meta, perhaps slightly under performing. In someone with more mainstream meta I'd scum read this pretty hard.

One general comment trend that I'll go along with, there isn't enough overt scumminess in this game. It leaves me with no genuine gut scum reads and that's not good.

You are using meta as your argument for NM, Dunn, Xayah, Elements, Cakez, myself and Almost.

[dramonic]

...So what you're saying is that you posted a full readlist that's mostly just "these people play like I've seen them play before".
That might actually be worse than I thought.

[dramonic]

Obligatory "empty threat for an empty iso" comment

[dramonic]

Tell me why you shouldn't be invited to be our first departure.

Dunnstral - Very standard for meta, very unreadable, very null

because of this

Threatening someone to make them talk is less effective when the threat gets defused.

I have a better idea, why don't you vote for somebody you scumread instead?

That would entail commiting to a position. I don't think Dave is ready to do this

[dramonic]

yeaaaaaaaaaah not touching that wagon with a 10-foot pole.
Pretty sure the top 3 wagons are all town.

[dramonic]

Because NS is scum and needs an easy lever, bulge

[dramonic]

Come join me on Elements @dram. I think dave might be town too.

I think you might be wrong.

[dramonic]

How does anyone not see Dave screaming scum here is beyond me.

[dramonic]

How does anyone not see Dave screaming scum here is beyond me.

I'm very conflicted on this.
It's such a wrong viewpoint that I flat out can't understand how anyone could come to this conclusion.
What dramonic is trying to say is that I'm not giving opinions, which is patently false.

Furthermore even if it were true, that would be town for me.

There are games I go entire phases without voting because nothing screams scum at me and the wagons are on people I hard TR.
Take a look at this post for my thoughts on nuanced posting.

I've been making a conscious effort for a year or more to explicitly NOT scumread people who scumread me for bad reasons.
I'm considering dropping that stance in this game.

Congratulations, you've just claimed scum again.

[dramonic]

Not as hurt as your ego is bruised ;3

[dramonic]

Orrr we could stop fucking around and lynch actual scum?

vote: dave

[dramonic]

^ was meant to be after dramonic

Ya really missed the mark there 0_o

[dramonic]

I'm thoroughly confused by everything elements post <_<

[dramonic]

I couldn't

[dramonic]

Not before at least a couple dates

[dramonic]

We could also stop throwing darts at a board and vote scum.
Just a crazy thought

[dramonic]

hes not a pr regardless.

shameless prod-dodge

[dramonic]

I think the best way to read me is probably:
"If Elements is scum, is he playing incredibly badly?"
If the answer is yes I'm town
If the answer is no I'm scum

Oh how modest.

I feel like you are completely mis-reading this.
As town the way I play would be incredibly bad if I were scum.
As scum the way I play wouldn't be incredibly bad for my alignment.

Arguably it's awful regardless, which is literally what's giving me pause <_<

[dramonic]

Elements has requested replacement, beginning search now.

welp, time to angleshoot

[dramonic]

VOTE: hoot hoot

Out of all the wolf candidates, I think the pov where tunneling a single slot w/o content to back it up (basically, not caring) is the one that makes the least sens as town

I thought youd caught up?

[dramonic]

Gimme some of those waffles please.

[dramonic]

oof.
There are more subtle ways to claim scum intread ya know?

[dramonic]

@Dave: That's unfortunate?
@Joey: I wouldn't try to convince you, I don't think it'll work

[dramonic]

Let me put this in simple terms.
There's one, maybe 2 players I think are worth engaging in this game from a solving perspective. You're not on that list.

[dramonic]

WAS ABOUT TO SAY

[dramonic]

@hoothoot try to find me 3 others mefias for when I come back from work

A) You're not the only person who works ya muffin.
B) That sounds like pointless effort considering the already obvious scum aint swingin

[dramonic]

vt
almost I guess?

[dramonic]

You're getting PR who is annoyed they're being scumread.

Cuz PRs are so town this game

[dramonic]

@hoot hoot i dislike that you still haven’t produced anything related to any slot outside dave even when proded multiple times.

and I dislike that dave is still coasting, but we cant always have nice things now can we?

[dramonic]

I have no idea what that print screen was supposed to prove
.

[dramonic]

Im gonna assume the image is warped by cell formatting cuz youre not making any sense

[dramonic]

The image shows me with 102 posts and you with 55.
Saying I'm coasting is one of the funniest gags I've seen on the site this year.
Just stop. Play the game. Who is scum?

Have you tried asking your buddy?

[dramonic]

The image shows me with 102 posts and you with 55.
Saying I'm coasting is one of the funniest gags I've seen on the site this year.
Just stop. Play the game. Who is scum?

That image crops before post count on phones btw <_<

[dramonic]

or we have a double PR.

[dramonic]

tbh Almost 2fold kinda drained my will to put energy in, so Im just waiting for the moment Dave flips scum so I can go I told you so.
zzz

[dramonic]

tbh Almost 2fold kinda drained my will to put energy in, so Im just waiting for the moment Dave flips scum so I can go I told you so.
zzz

That game is OVER now, so I can actually point out the OTHER reason I suspect you (besides PoE): Your play here doesn't look ANYTHING like your play in that game. I can buy that you were concentrating on one game over the other, but now that that is over, what's your excuse?

I literally just said I have no will to put energy in ya muffin <_<
If you wanna draw parallels, I feel about Dave the same way I felt about Triple. I think it's glaringly obvious, but yall don't see it, so I just assume you're all braindead

[dramonic]

I have a way of communicating with some players under certain circumstances

That sounds vaguely like something

against the rules

[dramonic]

bleh

replace out, sorry mod