Open 800 - Donner Party | Game Over

[DoubtingThomas]

your entire thesis around me seems like it revolves around the idea that i am a newb!scum and things i do is newb!scum. can you describe your scum read on me without using the word newb!scum? how about hypothetically speaking i told you that i am a decent scum. what have i done that makes you think i am a scum?

[DoubtingThomas]

like you were literally scraping posts where i was cussing and started laughing. that doesn't feel genuine scum read? do you really believe that all of the things you've done is in good faith?

you said that me focusing on one person and jumping around while buddying anyone who town reads me is scum 101? that's what you've done too? you don't think? you started pushing pob long, anad when i came into the thread, i was 80% of the things you've talked about. the only other scum read you ever had is on guillotina? but to a limited extent? hmm? like that's not a real scum read if it's a behavior that towns can easily do and it's something that could be used to describe your exact play?

[DoubtingThomas]

if you have any will to engage in good faith, please answer #1075 for the 3rd time i am asking, along with post #1077 and #1078.

[DoubtingThomas]

if you can succinctly explain why you scum read me from when you were voting pob long instead of making accusations that my strategy this game was scum 101, it would make me more likely believe that your push on me is genuine, tbh. a lot of your 'scum reads' on me have been in reaction to what i've done to you. like 'oh you are emotive, you said 'very noted' ' it doesn't feel real. can you please explain your reads in details intead of keep saying i am newb scum? like

Why would I care what your believe? You're either just scum, or town who has no inclination towards solving my slot. I think newb-town you would be...well, as I think you described it earlier, more enthusiastic and zealous and trying to read people. No evidence of that here.

and to pick just one thing above, I believe I was scumreading you before you'd said anything to me?

please stop ignoring post #1075. i definitely had a lot of inclination towards solving your slot. i stopped pushing your slot after you substituted in. then i saw your posts and i still don't know how your progression panned out from pub long to me.

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

who tf is tom?

-weirdedoutnornor

why are your top 3 scum picks not including pob long?

do you think Chaos should be thinking pob long is scum? they aren't voting there?

you claimed that a 3 person scum team but wants a low poster dead because you want 'something to happen'? in d1? i don't really buy this

that was just my hero solve for the end-game cred. I'm less convinced on Gamma now, but I still think you're pretty scummy.

What's not to buy? Dude, in my last Open game we had literally completed 4 gamedays by this stage.

why don't you want to vote, superb battle mage

thanks for the compliment i guess, i'll let you off the earlier diss

frankly

, when the game has made a consensus elim pool like we did here with guillo-superb-chaos, it's very anti town for a newly subbed in person to try to add additional confusion and instead of elaborating on the consensus choice to try to start everything all over again and derail the thread by pushing low posting slots that people weren't talking about in 33/33 pages of the game thread like you've done.

LOL no dude, you're way off here. It's

pro-town

to actually look at everybody, rather than just going with the consensus by default. Additionally, we have like a week until deadline, so there's plenty of time to get more info if you want and yet you're getting precious about a couple of 2/3 person wagons. It's not "starting everything all over again", it's just adding something new to the conversation. Although from your passionate statement above, it sounds like you're awfully worried about moving away from that existing consensus?

even if you were correct on pob long coasting, it gives us more information to elim out of the consensus so there are more associations to go off of. killing pob long after what we've all discussed is about others gives us 0 info even if pob long was indeed a low effort wolf. and there's no guarantee in that either, of course.

This just reads like a cop-out for not looking at pob long. it's not inherently zero info to look at someone who hasn't been suspected (because info can follow from that), and it's definitely not anti-town.

VOTE: Doubting Thomas

I think I'm happier on this one today. Very informative too!

so i am assuming this progression just means you think i was trying to protect scum!pob long or something? what a stretch of a progression if you can explain better so i can see if your thought progression actually makes sense i will appreciate it

haha well i actually answered that question earlier in the game i think - i guess you just forgot/didn't read?

maybe i missed it as i've posted and we were talking over each other and others were joining in the conversation if you can explain again it would be good if you don't want to for some reason ok

you have ignored this, again, unfortunately

[DoubtingThomas]

i don't see a transparency in your thought. and no, i scum read you before you joined. i was scum reading your slot from way before you joined the game

[DoubtingThomas]

i'll respond to other stuff later, if Gamma gives me permission.

i don't understand this statement, but i note that you aren't trying to engage me in live, even though i requested in a civil manner. i guess i gotta go for the night bye

[DoubtingThomas]

i don't see a transparency in your thought. and no, i scum read you before you joined. i was scum reading your slot from way before you joined the game

that's different to me responding to things you've done to ME though - you're moving the goalposts here.

quite wrong, again. i engaged with you as soon as i came back once you subbed in, and after our engagement, i thought that your read and treatment of my slot along with the push for pub long who is a low efforting slot was not town indicative at all. it is this very push that made you vote me.

you can't take credit that you scum read me first when you substituted in into a slot and started reading stuff back before i joined the thread again to even see you substituted in. needlessto say you never 'explained' why you were 'scum reading' me only that you thought 2 others plus myself were your 'hypothetical team' and you weren't voting any of us :/

[DoubtingThomas]

if you somehow get time to explain why you initially thought i was scummy and how that thought progressed while talking to me, i think that'd help me understand you a little more.

without that, based on my pov and how we interacted, it feels like the only reason you ended up voting me is because i said whawt you are doing is anti-town and because i don't think pob long is a good yeet, which you disagreed. this alone, i don't think really warrants a scum read, and that's why i think your scum read on me is unbelievable. maybe if you can explain things in your perspective, this thought can change.

[DoubtingThomas]

yessir. it's weekday so i am gonna try to do real life stuff. peace for a while

[DoubtingThomas]

bad boy guillo. bad boy

[DoubtingThomas]

i will say guillo tinfoiling on me is a good sign

[DoubtingThomas]

and superb hopping on for an opportunistic wagon :tsk tsk:

[DoubtingThomas]

2) When I posted the big spoiler wall about how i pocketed Gamma and mentioned a possible DT-Gamma relation, he ignored it and pushed me bote with him against superb because he wanted to policy lim us. DT is not a newbie, he should know that policy lim suggested so openly cant come from wolf, but I am the noob and i fell for it and that was enough to make ignore my suspicion on DT-Gamma.

i am not reading every single words of every single posts you write. especially if i don't scum read you and have greater focuses elsewhere

[DoubtingThomas]

VOTE: Aristophanes
I don't like how much of a gnarl the situation is with the more active players, but it seems like no good agreement is probably gonna be reached there, so I think it's best we defer that issue.

why are they scum?

[DoubtingThomas]

But here is the thing. No wolf is gonna openly talk about policy eliminations.

also not true proven by experience both personal and witnessing someone else

[DoubtingThomas]

asking for policy lim while saying 'i didn't actually town read them' is a weak stance, a very anti-town stance. killing people you are annoyed at = when they flip town you just say, 'haha but i never actually scum read them' hot garbage move regardless of alignment

[DoubtingThomas]

asking for policy lim while saying 'i didn't actually

scum

read them' is a weak stance, a very anti-town stance. killing people you are annoyed at = when they flip town you just say, 'haha but i never actually scum read them' hot garbage move regardless of alignment

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

Down to elim guillotine just to raise the level of play, you’re posting way too much for someone doing pretty much nothing VOTE: Guillotina

it's noted that tayl0r swift is too good for me and won't even read my posts.

im not singling you out. i skimmed the thread but ughhh it was such a slog

Wanna elim in DT/Guillotine with me so we dont have to read this anymore

Only reason im trying to policy lim is because if I had to call a scum right now it would be you

Also you down to hop on guillotina chaos? I think it's as good a D1 elim as we're gonna get

And I feel like their posting isn’t as bad as you try to put it. Sure guillo’s 651 looks like a bunch of confbiased overeager theorycrafting garbage, but it also seems like a real take at least.

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. It’s an overton window shift, we’re now having a discsussion about whether or not what Guillo said is really THAT bad or not. I’m saying can we ditch this and have more productive conversations?

PLEASE because right now the townblock is weird gamma and 2 newbies

@superb I still townread DT but I am willing to lim guillo now

Great let’s get wagoning!

I don't really support a guillotina vote today.

Why not?

See what im talking about in 663 BM

I would compromise on pob BM idk if that has support though. Also remember the vig can take care of one slot we dont elim

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

you dont think it would be valuable nonetheless? he seems to be crumbling under the pressure of 1 vote already.

I already did this right after we got out of RVS, I thought it made DT look like an obviously good elim target but this town does not agree so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

there's literally no consensus on anybody though...

I mean we only have about 7 active players anyways, Nora and johnny both TR DT so i don't think we're getting them, I think it's just me and you willing to hop on atp

I thought your pob idea was a good one, but apparently we were vetoed by the big 3 on that too -.-

Who are you willing to elim today taylor

BM I would hop on DT with you but it seems like they are widely townread there so I think wagoning is somewhat futile. Guillo is more likely to pick up steam from my perspective

My BRUH from before was to this
I literally combed Guillo mentions and found outside 3 people Guillo was not in anyone’s lim pool. This feels pretty silly, maybe superb’s scum PT turned into a bit of an echo chamber?

Exactly vs. the 2 who are willing to go DT....

All aboard!

VOTE: Doubting Thomas

these are all posts where he's more concerned about 'compromising' on who to eliminate rather than like actual scum hunting.

what are his scum reads so deep into day 1? can someone please answer me? yikes

[DoubtingThomas]

But here is the thing. No wolf is gonna openly talk about policy eliminations.

also not true proven by experience both personal and witnessing someone else

Can that experience be corroborated?

in terms of how my experience was when i did that? yes there was no consequence in me calling for policy lim and as scum i knew once the town flipped ttown, i wouldn't get heat for anything besides 'why would you try to policy lim??'

calling for policy lim also gives more confusion and negative feeling in the thread that is beneficial for scums, along with another positive (for scum) side effect of making people become more emotional, away from logic and truth

[DoubtingThomas]

Johnny probably staying away from interacting with me and 'calming the thread' while not really taking a stance besides his vote on me is scummy, imo

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

Hi guys. First game here.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Sup dude!

@guil also do you know Tommy?

So y'all don't buy into Tommie's assertion that super B is being disingenuous?

Disagreed. You are starting to bother me because you keep talking about flipping a coin as if my reasons are not valid to scum read him. I hosts games Johnny, I've seen several kinds of scum and chkflip flips the profile of one of those kinds!Our chances of finding scum on Day 1 are the same regardless of the method. Bad does not NECESSARILY equals to evil but it can very well be, shit play does not NECESSARILY scum tell but it could, but you are missing the whole point or you are deliberately playing dumb because lack of play is one of the most basic scum tells!!! I'm not talking going-on-vacation or taking-care-of-the-family-first lack of play!! I'm talking about his lack of real play, he's got 13 posts and he could have made thirteen great posts! But he chose to post 13 shit posts and fock off.That player is not playing the game! He is disinterestedly coasting it!! Just like an old tired scum rand with no motivation to play the game with "outsiders" (as Taylor put it) would. It seems to me that you are willing to cut him some slack because he is a legacy player here, as in legacy players are not supposed to get yeeted on D1 if they play, well, like scum.

I don't agree. But I'll drop it until you get me that hard data (you don't really have to I don't care that much).

I don't give a shit he's legacy btw. My start date's not all that later than his.

ORYou and him are teammates and you are covering up for your "LHF" scum mate.

ah fuck you caught me. (I'm actually mad jealous of scum this game, I bet they're having a blast)

By the way! Your posts have offered no substance so far! Let's change that. Where are your reads???

Uhhhh you and superb are hard to sort
I think chaos and tommie are town
I think tayl0 and gamma are scum

Tommy let's talk actual scumreads. I don't PL.

So like, that timing does suck Tommy but I have an alternative theory: the personality clash. He pushed you, you came and annoyed him and he wanted to leave. I think that's just as likely as your theory, which is why he's not the slam dunk you think he is.

@guillo point out the Ari town post?

Not really easy to explain. My feeling is, may be loud, annoying, distracting, but that doesn't necessarily add up to scummy, even if his case is bad I don't think it's a rabbit hole scum goes down. I also agree with battle mage in that I don't expect scum to pursue a loud, high-impact approach to the game on day 1 in this setup.

I missed that battle mage said that. I mean what is your take on him then pushing that I am scum despite me being like almost an upgrade of guillo if he's town read him for that?

i feel the difference between you and Guillo is that he has more or less attacked everyone indiscriminately, whereas you have been very focussed on a couple of slots, and have eagerly taken opportunities to kiss up to others (others basically being Gamma).

I'm up to this and wondering why Tommie is even alive still

i just dont see how not knowing theres a vig would indicate someone is town. thats kinda a prerequisite for something being a townslip

Because scum are more likely to be worried about the vig? And say so in a scum pt. Or a Hydra chat. So even if noraa would miss it, would all her partners miss it? Naw.

Yeh. VOTE: Tommie

hmm yeah. it feels like throughout the game he was staying away from being attacked by me and even town reading me at one point to state it boldly. and then when things cooled down, all his previous interactions and buddy-buddy ness aand town read is gone just because i said vig should prob kill here? mmmmmmmmm lol

[DoubtingThomas]

plusjoyed is giving town reads on his friends like government is giving out food stamps to the poor, wtf?

Plus is generally extremely hard to read. I have never ever not SRed him in a game before. Like thats how scummy I perceive him as and its so scummy that I can never stop myself. My conclusion is plus is scummy af. Just hope there is a vig in the game that vigs him. If there isn't, then you have to concentrate and make things right your own way :/

-nornor

anyone know what is odd about this post

Is it that calling for the death of a player regardless of alignment kind of sucks?

Is it that Noraa prolly isn't the vig because the vig usually isn't like "gosh I hope a vig kills this person if they exist"

Is it that players that don't know the setup are generally town, doubly so in a three headed hydra because people on teams usually talk setup at some point?

Why are you being coy?

all this vig talk. you MUST be scum reading chaos and yourself? yes?

[DoubtingThomas]

like me talking about vig cannot just flip flop you one anyone's slot like that :0 wow so shocked idk if this is just occam's razoe and scum or just too flip floppy to be town? hoping its scum

[DoubtingThomas]

DT every post on this page from you seems bad, misguided, or incoherent, with the exception of 1200 which is a valid point. Are you in a Tunnel on Johnny and why?

I feel like you are underestimating them as a player, for one, and saying things about their posts that the quoted posts are not supporting.

From my interactions with Johnny, their stance on the game was that of a very friendly one. When I had a showdown with superb and PlusJOYED, Johnny was the first one to sort of calm the situation down, and treating me as a slot worth listening to. It did not feel like a simple, "ok, so what are your thoughts?" It felt like "I understand your point. What do you think about this?" It's difficult to put into words, but the difference between the latter and former is that there's an implication of town reading the other slot, or at least being in a world where Johnny believes that the slot they are talking to is capable of pointing out important facts that could potentially guide town to the right course of things. This happened all throughout the game, and there's literally a post where he states that he thinks I am town.

After all that, though, I read his last batch of posts like 2-3 times. Maybe I should sit down and really try to savor on what he was trying to say, but his initial rather firm town read on me (a read that at least FELT like it came from more than just a few posts he saw me write) dissolved - like evaporated. It doesn't really have to about whether or not he's a good scum player or not. It felt like a very different person, and while he MAY have some own progression of thoughts in his mind, based on the posts I've ISO'ed him, I could not read and it looks like he has flip flopped greatly on his treatment of my slot. My understanding of him voting me from town reading me was that because 'scums are the only ones conscious of vigs. and that i was conscious of vigs'

All of these you can really see only if you read all of his posts and interactions with me, which I don't expect you to do. But if you can at least read his last batch of posts yourself and tell me what you think about his progression on me after posting that he town reads me, I guess it could help me see him better?

[DoubtingThomas]

You know what, I’m gonna call this out rn. I really don’t think Chaos hydra is scum atp. Get off of them.

interesting - even though you've defended me when others were town reading me and now I am lead wagon

[DoubtingThomas]

Have I actually missed anything?

Lol yeah this mostly. It got tense and insulty for a minute.

SuperB wants to policy Tommie or guil or both because they're used to different ways of play (and to be fair they are a little too quick to argue ANYTHING). This is after starting a scumread on Gamma.

Gamma, it's weird, but I read the MS rulebook, and it said he is off limits today.

Tommie bites the head off the head of anyone looking at him sideways, which is everyone, so everyone's scum to him.

Guil is a certified clever boy¿ with gambits

Ok Johnny is town, send it
Okay maybe not THAT confident but I like how he went about summing up the thread
Like it’s fair and balanced takes with no evident prejudice that seems like trying to bias the feel of anyone

he's not taking any strong stance and still hasn't explained his thought progession from stating i am town to voting me. his explanation on me also is not indicative of scum, so i even get that less. especially because he's taken the role of 'calming people down' so i don't expect him to try to kill me for being unpleasant. and also his description of me trying to scum read everyone who scum reads me is wrong (e.g. guillotina) and also i town read you heavily too. dont think its great

[DoubtingThomas]

should I die, Gamma-Ari-Guillo form town core and go from there. maybe you can discuss to add chaos. i am overcommitted now that couple other games i in'ed started so dying is fine this is fine

[DoubtingThomas]

it's not AtE lol all the people who are voting me literally don't scum read me. it's more of a whatever annoyance

[DoubtingThomas]

not to mention the fact that towns use AtE all the time.

[DoubtingThomas]

I think I am ok with chk though. maybe the core can include chk. but if chk is not town, i blame gamma

glgl

[DoubtingThomas]

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Guillotina)
-Used AtE (Chk)

[DoubtingThomas]

oops i messed up

[DoubtingThomas]

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Johnny)
-Used AtE (Chk)
-He's irrational when wolf (Guillotina.. although I don't think I ever wolfed against you besides a game that I subbed in for a day which I don't think really counts but w/e)

[DoubtingThomas]

legacy is

Gamma
Ari
Guillotina
Chk

Chaos

Johnny
Battle Mage

Superb

[DoubtingThomas]

Too go-with-the-flowy to be town

That is a legit reason though, maybe it’s not good but it’s not policy or w/e
Who out of those do you think is most likely to be scum? Do you think the team is on you, if so who would it be?
PEdit: I don’t recall Johnny saying you were scummy with that

it's a legit read, if I wasn't getting scum read by others for 'hurting game thread' and 'shitting on everyone' and 'not allowing others to talk'

? uhm

and ok - what do you think Johnny's scum read on me was about then? that's what I got from him. he's also ignored me so

[DoubtingThomas]

tay has two votes both on guillotina besides the rvs one. i guess that's not a fantastic look

[DoubtingThomas]

i guess that makes me read catboi to be town based on my pov of the game state. if not we (towns) deserve to lose i guess

so gamma-guillo-chk-catboi-maybe chaos yes winning town core

[DoubtingThomas]

gamma come where i play i enjoy playing with you dont think mafiascum is my cup of tea

pedit:yea ari is town trust

[DoubtingThomas]

also why is guillotina like pretending to know my meta? he's saw my scum game once when it was my first game ever since my 1.5 years long hiatus and I subbed into a bastard mash that was already in a shitty place. would be playing differently no matter what. also I only randed towns in the games he's hosted, and yet that would still read differently reading from a host perspective? hmm maybe that will be my tinfoil slot out of my town core

[DoubtingThomas]

That’s XHF right
I might, I have ventured into the homesites of other players before, to limited gain (one was alright until I realized the site culture and the players were kinda shitbags, and another I kinda got alienated from after one game. All other attempts drew dead due to the culture just not being active)

no. mafiauniverse. phases are faster like 1-3 days per day and 12hrs - 24 hrs for nights. for 98% of the games you always eliminate no need to reach maj and cannot sleep unless specified

[DoubtingThomas]

I have played there before and I don’t entirely like it
I feel like the site moderation is a little unfair, they rip on MS open setups for no reason, and the gameplay loop isn’t a speed I handle very well. Though I had my absolute favorite role probably there.

I actually agree with this take. But I think phases here are too long

[DoubtingThomas]

I have played there before and I don’t entirely like it
I feel like the site moderation is a little unfair, they rip on MS open setups for no reason, and the gameplay loop isn’t a speed I handle very well. Though I had my absolute favorite role probably there.

I actually agree with this take. But I think phases here are too long

Outside of the fact games tend to have sparse activity from probably a good portion of players I think you might like games on

my

homesite (it’s a special themed board but people have made the jump without necessarily being interested in the actual subject of the board itself)
Deadlines there tend to be a decent middle ground between here and on MU
The biggest issue there is games there aren’t too common these days

we shouldn't talk about out of game too much on here, but I am interested PM me post game I guess?

[DoubtingThomas]

This is after starting a scumread on Gamma.

scumlean ftr

Also it's scaring me that he's inching closer and closer to my view on the game as we go on

why would a scum lean person melding with you and viewing the game in a similar way scare you? you like WANT to scum read more people on purpose?

[DoubtingThomas]

I would probably normally re evaluate superb to town read him, but unironically, calling for policy lim deserves getting policy lim'ed in my book

[DoubtingThomas]

can u explain what you were referring to when you were asking for him to confirm if you are overestimating his game?

[DoubtingThomas]

so witty and intelligent. so jealous. clap clap

[DoubtingThomas]

you must be cool and good at what you do like Neymar

[DoubtingThomas]

in the case i am tunneled maybe the world can be tayl0r - johnny? hm

[DoubtingThomas]

well i can tell you that he's not that good because i am town :shrug:

[DoubtingThomas]

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc

the irony

[DoubtingThomas]

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Guillotina)
-Used AtE (Chk)

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Johnny)
-Used AtE (Chk)
-He's irrational when wolf (Guillotina.. although I don't think I ever wolfed against you besides a game that I subbed in for a day which I don't think really counts but w/e)

What happened here? Couldn't make up your mind?

no I misplaced your name with someone else's. that can't be 'unable to make up mind' because it's literally just facts and not really a read

[DoubtingThomas]

What i've been trying to figure out here is the gamma/dt relation.

Are they really buddying up?

Or

Is it a pocketing case and if so, who pocketed who?

I think one way to determine if people are 'buddy-buddying' or making pure interactions is looking at the whole thread. are there reasons for them to be buddy-buddying or vice versa?

a lot of people have been scum reading me whether or not if that's a correct read is a different matter. so there are some pointers to think about. In the case that DT was being scum read by not everyone but a few people arelier on in the game, what motive did Gamma Emerald have to 'buddy buddy' DT as a partner? I personally think a scum partner would be less inclined to purely defend his only partner when a lot of the thread is pushing them.

You also should think about how others treated my slot and have progressed from it. E.g. Johnny town read me but now scum reads me. Catboi has (as far as I can tell, although they haven't been in the thread quite often) have been town reading me. Chaos also town read me initially but now I am likely scum (this progression is a bit better than what others shown me and I have less problem with) Battle Mage substituted in and scum reads me.

Keeping all these things in your mind, think about whether or not Gamma still trying to defend me is a 'buddy buddy' attempt. I think the course of how Gamma defended me - not to death (e.g. prefers to not kill chaos over me) but still voicing their town read when it matters, even though it was much easier for her to "re evaluate" and rescind her town read on me and express 'meh, dt can die also' to receive possible bus cred as a partner means it's unlikely that we are partners.

Remember also that there's a 3p serial killer in play that scums do not know about that are likely to kill another townie for scum faction. I think it's difficult for any scum partner to defend a fellow partner like gamma has done. Maybe gamma can be trying to pocket me as a scum and trying to receive credit of "I told you so" when I flip town, but not really as a partner. I could be biased because I already know my alignment in this interaction though

[DoubtingThomas]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

DT, it seems like you legit town read me, at least you didn't lash off at me when i casted my vote on you. You behaved like someone who really town reads the other.

But i need more.

The moment you told me that you town read me with that odd poem. Why? Why do you town read me.

odd poem? I think I said I town read you in multiple posts and do not exactly recall which one you are talking about. which one?

[DoubtingThomas]

Johnny's change of read on my slot is different than Guillo's or Gamma's even though they are doing the same thing.

Johnny was always in a position to tranquil me and others fighting with each other and always treated me as such. I find that hard to come from someone to another player that they scum read. It was like beyond surface-level friendliness. and I thought he was serving a pro-town agenda by keeping the thread under control.

But then he came back to the thread and still hasn't explained why he switched from town reading me to scum reading me. It was so hidden that Gamma didn't even realize he was legitimately scum reading me. and when asked by both myself and gamma, he has refrained from answering. That's not really townie.

[DoubtingThomas]

Guillo, if you are legitimately asking for a game where I did ask for policy lim, well. I've played a lot of games and those specific ones were over 1.5 years ago in varying websites that I played on, so I probably cannot give you a link at ready. I will say though, regardless of my alignment, I wouldn't lie about whether or not I have policy lim is easily pushable from scum perspective. I mean the logic is very simple there. that being said, towns do push for policy lim as well. but that is not my main concern with superb's slot as I've said repeatedly

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Interesting choice of words. “I eat players like you for breakfast” in a game where scum are the cannibals. I know that remark is NAI but it was so funny! Lol.

Let's break this down from a psychological stand point.

1) “You really think you SCARE me”? Denotes that you felt threatened by my words. Why?
2) “I eat players like you for breakfast”. You felt the need to threaten me. Why?
3) “I don't think i had to “try hard” to find those reasons”. Implies doubt, meaning you did try hard to find those reasons.
4) “The joke is self-evident”. Even if it was I don't see how falling for a joke is alignment indicative.

Then the nonsense and vastly hilarious.

5) “scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively”. Are you really gonna case me for not catching a joke? Lol. Ok, that one is a joke! See? I'm town.
6)”they are trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower”. In the name of the entire mafia players community, i apologize for the ignorant statement of this player, he called you all dumb when you randed wolf and won your respective games, he even called himself dumb in the process.
7) “It's not exactly scientific but it's what i've discerned overtime”. I can see you are the very embodiment of genius.
8) “And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems like a little theatrical”. LAMIST only applies if I was wolf which I'm not. I'm strong in my opinions and I'm a badass player. If you are town, you should spend less time hating on me and more on helping catching wolves.
And if you are scum, I can only hope that your partner is not Tayl0r Swift, otherwise, you are both screwed because you suck.

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Actually no. Think about it. An experienced player who is a newbie to the site they are playing, is an experienced player's nightmare at the site they are a regular on.

It makes me unpredictable and scum want as much control of the room as possible, so unpredictability is something they want to avoid. This is why newbies always die first and this is why your push on me is a tiny bit suspicious.

This take is pretty valid; it’s also why replacements tend to get killed when other options aren’t very compelling.

Yah, replacements are a problem for scum, imagine wolves spending time hard pocketing someone and then they sub out and someone with a clear view of the pocket in question outs them. Happens often!

Now imagine a new member joining your homesite where you spent months if not years providing and gathering meta to control the opponent when you rand wolf and out them when you rand town, and this new player joins a game with non of that and outs you solely based on your behavior in that specific game. That gotta suck! This is when you find wolves casting votes on you for the most ridiculous reasons! Does it ring a bell? No? Keep reading.

Then i dont believe you.

The fact you even started to take the bait on that bothers me

I'm new here, i don't know anyone but Thomas here, so forgive me for not catching troll-like jokes from outed scum.

VOTE: Guillotina
Between taking a joke a bit too seriously and having a pretty hard LAMIST tone I’m okay with this going aorn

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

these posts. keep in mind when i did make that read, i mean i didn't think 'you change your meta as you pleased as either alignment' like you expressed in this game. saying that itself also is often times >rand townie, because you are being super open about your scum range which wolves are often scared to do so.

anyways, these posts read very differently than how you played in pantheon mash. i think i skimmed one of your posts where you greatly complimented your play in pantheon mash, but as a pretty loud townie that survived for many days in that mash, i thought you weren't really present in the thread unless you made posts. that may read weirdly, but it sounded like you only came into thread to SHOW that you were posting and that you were pushing people/doing work. real towns leave an impact in the game that resonates within thread even when they aren't in the thread. whenever you came in, sure, you pushed one or two people, but then you left, and then quite frankly i didnt really think about you after you left.

it is a 55+ person mash, so yes it's a bigger game, but there i think you very much stayed away from getting needless attraction. whereas here, you were openly talking about how you are new to the site, how newbies get killed, and etc against some of the louder players. that's something i didn't see from my one sample size game of yours.

[DoubtingThomas]

DoubtingThomas, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes, Tayl0r Swift + Guillotina

feeling good about the wagon here. with the exception of Tayl0r all people i highly town read and tayl0r's lack of votes/activity, although could go either way for town/scum, felt like it lacked a scummy agenda. I am also assuming Johnny saying that being lackadaisical is a town tell for her is going to be true regardless of johnny's alignment. so this is fine

[DoubtingThomas]

if pob and chaos are mafia they hammer superb here

[DoubtingThomas]

i think even if they are team w superb. to get some sort of cred

[DoubtingThomas]

their reluctance is townie regardless of superb's alignment

[DoubtingThomas]

only thing you need to be sorry about is not giving a fuck and pretending to be a hotshot and only trying hard after enough people caught on to your bullshit and wants to vote you off. not drafting a wall

[DoubtingThomas]

what are we waiting for

[DoubtingThomas]

pob feels like a shot in the dark, if I had to guess probably town but an acceptable kill as a gimmick lurker who's never going to get nightkilled or be a factor in the game.

I should go back and try to explain my chaos triforce read.

think chaos is town. why would scum!chaos not vote already?

[DoubtingThomas]

pob feels like a shot in the dark, if I had to guess probably town but an acceptable kill as a gimmick lurker who's never going to get nightkilled or be a factor in the game.

I should go back and try to explain my chaos triforce read.

think chaos is town. why would scum!chaos not vote already?

In this setup? optics. You hammer town prematurely you look bad. have to work your way up to it. Plus plenty of times I've seen scum stay off a wagon on town they figured would go through anyway. But I don't find the way nora pushed on gamma to be very honest looking at all.

yea i agree her push on gamma isn't good. but there were couple people that town read her, including gamma herself. given that others know nora better than me, i am willing to give her some space and also respect for the people i town read in terms of their read.

pob long is definitely coasting, but i think the correct time to push them is tomorrow. iirc, superb and battle mage both tried to settle on pob long/encourage others to vote pob long. i'd feel better about pob long if superb flips W

also think scums are more likely to come into thread, see that the wagons are on superb/myself, and be fine with that/have nothing to say and not post. who fits this description? battle mage, tayl0r? pob long probably had to post something instead of trying to just vote and peace out - that would be bad.

[DoubtingThomas]

These games are too ling to let lurkers play these games. Chaos is not feeling good either making us wait this long for a decision. Take a stance Chaos! You vote or not vote for superb! Saying she intents to vote and stalling the game until it cools down sounds like a scum move. If you are not ok with voting, say you retract your intent to hammer then but dont keep us like this!

this is obv town

[DoubtingThomas]

I fucking promise you erbow flips green.

This iiiiiiiiis super dumb.

this could be a scum who has TMI on superb being non-scum? not sure, but i have to take chk out of my town bloc for now

[DoubtingThomas]

dont be anoynoyed anornor!

lol whats with all the grammar read memes lately

tayl0r feels like she's checking the thread frequently enough and while she doesn't make reads every single time in the thread (which is fine), she's not afraid to say what she wants/needs to say >rand townie

[DoubtingThomas]

(I'm still reading the first one here but I wanted to wish you well on the test)

did you have any thoughts? after reading the first one

[DoubtingThomas]

just hammer chaos i will take all the responsibility w/e

[DoubtingThomas]

that could (in italics) be a scum slip

[DoubtingThomas]

he doesn't have a scum read. i guess his town game is utter garbage then? that's his meta? i dont get it. if he's not playing to a single drop of town win con and literally doesnt have a scum read that he expresses when asked, how is anyone who doesnt have meta on him supposed to town read him?

[DoubtingThomas]

VOTE: johnnyfarrar

[DoubtingThomas]

Dont talk too much about why vig might have killed x

I think guillo was the clearer choice for scum yes

[DoubtingThomas]

I expected 3 kills from mafia, vig, sk.

[DoubtingThomas]

Killing sk prevents sk from killing at night?

[DoubtingThomas]

The Serial Killer has 1-shot NK immunity and a 1-shot roleblocker immunity

It could be that someone hit the sk

[DoubtingThomas]

Oh i see what u mean

[DoubtingThomas]

Lol poor BM

wtf. Wtf. WTF.
this reaction is so .... weird.

-nronor

yes

[DoubtingThomas]

Bit unfortunate that our uh ... vig chose a townie.

I take it the scums killed Guillo because he hard softed pr yesterday. I remember asking table how to derail Guillo's wagon because of what I perceived as "newbie pr softs"
Vig probs killed BM. As for why, I'm going to go ask and see if table has any thoughts on that.

-nornor

eh i personally dont like this post and this is also like 3rd time they didnt read the set up fully. at that point, it might be a made-up town-slip sorta gimmick. idk

[DoubtingThomas]

Noraa is on the record as someone who fakes town slips as scum

essentially, i think when a town misreads the set up once or twice, then it's TOWNIE of them to read it for the last time and actually try to understand the setup, because understanding the setup is necessary for a correct solve.

I think norra keep 'slipping' that they didn't read the setup is actually scum-indicative, it shows that they don't care about actually solving the game.

I think @Gamma Emerald should explain their town read for everyone's sake

[DoubtingThomas]

thats an ugly profile pic, gamma.

[DoubtingThomas]

i think i am more sure about chk being town this day phase over anything

[DoubtingThomas]

woooooooooooooooooooo yes i was right baby

[DoubtingThomas]

i am like lock town then, tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

lol PlusJOYED really left the game like that as scum huh

[DoubtingThomas]

can we all just compromise on a VOTE: pob long

clears pob long too. that's not a way anyone busses

[DoubtingThomas]

i dont like to pretend that my scumreads are definitely scum.

hey, is that a shot at me?

think this clears tayl0r as well

[DoubtingThomas]

literally like the only people he ever talks about/to is

Guillotina, Tayl0r, pob long, Gamma, Chaos, catboi

[DoubtingThomas]

well, if gamma is town vig, i would expect them to be dead tonight.

if they are scum/sk whoever he is not has a lot of incentives to kill gamma. i think it's self resolving.

i also think the way gamma claimed is most likely always town. he wasn't really under pressure

[DoubtingThomas]

literally like the only people he ever talks about/to is

Guillotina, Tayl0r, pob long, Gamma, Chaos, catboi

Probably ignores the buddies.

agreed

[DoubtingThomas]

Doubting is just hard to sort and I honestly kinda think they are scum atm if gamma is scum.

cuz Plus "being scum" benefits Doubting the most.

But if gamma is a buddy that killed plus who was a vig ....

yeah idk.

I have never been in a game where flips are like this.

I struggle.

imma let table take the reins. this is all very confusing for me. legitimately.

-nornor

lol you think i am scum? that's pretty bad, tbh

[DoubtingThomas]

BM was honestly pretty towny as well.

serious question - how?

you realize 95% of his posts are actually just talking about me?

[DoubtingThomas]

if BM were town vig, he kills me there 100% of the time. i think. he's annoyed at me and thought i had likely scum equity and believed i gave a lot of info.

he's not the town vig because I didn't die. He has to be scum and Gamma is telling the truth, or Gamma is just throwing away the game for no reason if he's anything but town vig rn.

yep. gamma is self resolving.

no, don't try to argue.

BM town vig always kills me. period.

[DoubtingThomas]

if he was that tunneled, why doesn't he kill me???????????????????

are you thinking hard enough?

[DoubtingThomas]

like he's either town vig whose push on me was sincere, (which obviously isn't because i didnt die) or he's just scum or sk.

gamma wouldnt out herself rn if he wasnt scum or sk.

why would town vig!BM not kill me?

on second thought, i remembered that if he hit the SK, then maybe. but that would have to make ME SK and also never scum partner with gamma?

[DoubtingThomas]

if I am SK, and Gamma was supposed scum vig who found out that BM was town vig, why would gamma ever claim here? i'd probably most likely kill her

sk has to kill gamma in that case because town no longer has a vig and is at a big disadvantage. i dont think any scum would out like gamma did for no reason.

[DoubtingThomas]

bm is never town vig because i didnt die, unless i am exactly SK. in that case, gamma outting here doesnt make any sense

so i think the correct conclusion is bm is not the town vig here and gamma is not sk nor scum vig because it doesnt make sense for them to out the information unless they are town vig

[DoubtingThomas]

:nod: i think gamma is just town vig here because I am not SK also. ok! who are we killing then @Gamma

[DoubtingThomas]

holy shit did i just solve the game?

[DoubtingThomas]

well not solve, but i think we are in good position

[DoubtingThomas]

if Gamma is SK, scum kills them

if Gamma is scum, SK kills them

???

[DoubtingThomas]

Well guillo vig works too.

at this point, you aren't really trying to solve anything. just trying to shade everything you can. looks conf biasing.

noted.