Open 801: Trust Fall (Game Over)

[Fidget]

VOTE: Pooky

Exercising my right to vote

[Fidget]

What if each of us names 2 players other than ourselves, like a pseudo-vote thing.
Then after a certain point, the 2 players named most often have to pair off.
So like the same concept as RVS wagons basically, but we flip 2 people.

hmmm

i don't think leashing is that good of an idea tbh, scum getting a say through leashing may be dangerous

i think there's very slight +town equity to proposing these mech approaches (granted mechtalk is an easy way to get cred as scum) but its bold/new

Scum might get slightly more agency, but I feel as if having votes of some kind to go off of would be useful for getting reads. I'm sure things will get better as stuff happens but without votes I feel a little unsure of what to talk about.

[Fidget]

HEAL: Akarin
HEAL: Hectic
HEAL: Jake The Wolfie

Necessary Sneasel

HURT: PookyTheMagicalBear
HURT: Rainbow Reads
HEAL: Rockhopper
HURT: shellyc
HEAL: Uncrowned

[Fidget]

Fidget noooooo

Just trying to get Hectic to fall for you while blessing other pairs would be a very convenient scum strategy :C

Not that you wouldn't do it as town too, but nyeh! I need a bottom half. Maybe Akarin or Jake are wrongly healed.

[Fidget]

:X

[Fidget]

Too much focus on me!

[Fidget]

Hectic has gotten us derailed, I think.

You're very good at pocketing, Pooky, which would mean that for this game as scum you wouldn't need to do anything aggressive with the game state - you'd only need to pocket someone. That is what I am wary of.

And I am

not

cute.

[Fidget]

HECTIC YOU SNEAKY

I thought your proposal was real... but if you truly cared about me, my engagement ring would've had the correct trusting format on it.

You're dead to me.

so I kind of had this mega IQ play i was hoping to pull off where someone would jump to say that bear is confirmed along with me and if that was the case they were probs scum together but then i realized that thing in the next post where it doesn't confirm me either from other players perspectives + the fact that it wasn't the right format

This probably isn't faked and is the best I have to go off of for someone being town at the moment.

Shelly didn't use any buzzwords to call Hectic scum, only naked accusations. That is interesting.

[Fidget]

Shelly sounds very shady here.

I want to believe my Hectic is true, but I fear rejection and heartbreak :(

What would you rate your paranoia levels of Hectic?

[Fidget]

Anything other than the fluff, shelly?

you're still fluffing and being nonchalant about my push on you

Is it scum-indicative for Hectic not to mind pushes?

Also, how are you using his reaction to you calling him scum as a reason for why you thought he was scum?

[Fidget]

HEAL: Akarin - Not much too more than proactiveness and a good townread on me, so not terribly confident here yet, but a higher chance than random of being town sure.
HEAL: Hectic - Does go a bit counter to scum wincon to draw out townslips.
HEAL: Jake The Wolfie - I think Jake dislikes playing scum, I probably slightly townread since he hasn't ghosted which I've seen scum!him do.

Necessary Sneasel

- I feel like this player has been poking and prodding, sure, but I'm not convinced they are solving as of yet. He really has just been asking Akarin why she has townreads.
HURT: PookyTheMagicalBear - Scum!Pooky knows that all he has to do is fluff and ask a player to trust his townie soul. Would he do it as town too? Probably, but I cannot point to anything that makes him town yet which makes me a tad concerned.

Rainbow Reads

- No opinion as of yet.
HEAL: Rockhopper - Shelly suspicion good.
HURT: shellyc - I am finding the Hectic suspicion a tad unusual, but will be in need of more information. Essentially, shelly does not remind me so much of the shelly I played with in Trials so far.
HEAL: Uncrowned - Town reaction to trust.

[Fidget]

what made you like the other person's opener? not jake. i forgot the username of the one i'm asking about.

She obviously understood about Equinox's disgusting anti-suffrage stance, but chose to RVS vote for Pooky right after me, building momentum. It's a dumb page 1 read but I feel like scum would have been more likely to either not vote or vote elsewhere.

But post 98, post 171 progression, and post 171 also strike me as pretty towny, so I have grown more confident in my town read there.

aha
i think nonchalance, or even silliness, is what i was looking for in fidget's opening

thanks

Why's that?

[Fidget]

Why are you trying to set up other couples, Pooky?

im pretty sure buzzwording is one of my alignment tells which nobody has found out yet

That's the idea!

A question to whoever wants to answer: If you could win the game by identifying one town right now, who would it be?

[Fidget]

drawing out townslips is the ideal town!play so scum would aim to imitate it

fidget do you think solving/posting reads is "counter to scum wincon?" this is very similar

Scum wins by getting us to scumread town players over them.

This is different from Hectic having a towncase for Uncrowned or simply townreading him. Townreads are a much more subjective thing than trying to initiate behavior that makes a player's towniness self-evident. He actively forced Uncrowned out of the elimination pool, which drops one of scum's chances to win.

[Fidget]

Necessary Sneasel - I feel like this player has been poking and prodding, sure, but I'm not convinced they are solving as of yet. He really has just been asking Akarin why she has townreads.

the people i want to do things (pooky, hectic, rock first and then jake & rr) aren't really doing anything so this is a pretty correct take on my play yeah

akarin is actually townposting so i want to check my own reads on her more than get a read on her

I see.

HEAL: Uncrowned - Town reaction to trust.

is this the only reason you townread uncrowned?

Yes.

Looking through, I somewhat like him asking to be trusted. Other than that, I am going off of the stretch of posts after the Hectic trust. I believe they are real.

I believe the only way they aren't is probably if Uncrowned and Hectic are partnered, and he got a notice in advance. I heavily doubt that, though.

[Fidget]

244 is misrep btw. I never said that scum would do it MORE as town. I said scum would aim to imitate this behaviour so town hunting in itself is not worthy of a TR. you are twisting my words.

Pedit: were you aware of the formatting of the trusting at the time?

So if that was a null point, what is it that you were scumreading Hectic for, exactly?

Oh. You don't anymore. I see.

[Fidget]

Apologies for not being around, I will have time to read through later today.

[Fidget]

Whoops sorry.

I think your lockscumming of Pooky is caused by a misunderstanding of the setup because I fail to see how scum can accidentally guilty themselves. But it does reflect well on sneasel, I think, unless its blatantly obvious they dont believe whatever they're saying.

[Fidget]

Yeah no, not retrusting to cast a shadow on Uncrowned alignment makes no sense as a motive. Scum wins by trusting.

Uh no updates on Jake, Rainbow, or shelly really. I'm entertaining a slight paranoia of Pooky and Gloria although I do not remember who Gloria replaced.

Oh, I liked Rockhopper. We'll see then. I like Hectic and Akarin slightly which I guess is the best I can go off of in this setup although I wouldn't exactly say I'm willing to bet the game on these reads. Ironically at the same time I really think we should start pairing so we do have something to go off of.

[Fidget]

I don’t think Pooky is necessary lockscum by that but however Sneasel is correct about the setup. It is possible for scum to guilty themselves because if both scum trust each other then nothing happens, so yes if they do that then they are 100% guiltied.

Ahh, I forgot.

Okay, well if Uncrowned is scum then I'll think about that but otherwise it doesn't make much sense to assume S-S just because of a rescinded request. And I don't think Uncrowned is scum regardless. And if he is, we probably have already lost anyway.

Like there's a significant chance Rainbow-Jake is T-T, and in that case we remove the... noise about their lack of noise from the game. And if one is scum we'll have just done the POE paranoia elim a bit earlier than doing it at endgame. If both are scum the pairing will fail and then game solved! (No way is it gonna be that easy.)

They are likely T-T, why?

You want to pair them together because they might miraculously be scum together. Why would we do that rather than just pair off townreads and proceed from there?

I think I'm like 0.01% more likely town than random on Jake and absolute coinflip on Rainbow, but I'm not sure I see it getting much better than that, and I see some value in removing them from the equation, because statistically everyone is a bit more likely town than scum anyway.

Why should we trust them rather than kill them? Leave them alive til the endgame and see how much they want to win and then decide their fates there, is what I would think.

Oh, hang on, that probably doesn't count as a contentful post

Pooky is my soul mason
Akarin is pleasant
Sneasle is reliable
Gloria is wholesome
Jake is awesome
Fidget is cute
Rainbow Reads is fun
shelly is inspiring
Uncrowned is adorable

That should do it

Mm, I do still resent this read, for the record.

If we pair consensus town reads first we have no one trustworthy around to give opinions.

I do like this line of thinking, even if I don't get pairing the nulls.

[Fidget]

I actually almost proposed to Sneasel earlier today, not that I think he'd accept, but I'm having some paranoia there. I think he's probably more likely town than not but I don't know, something about the "I'm gonna pair with Akarin, somebody stop me" thing. Plus, if he is town, I wouldn't want him to actually accept anyway.

There's 4 hours after Sneasel proposed to Uncrowned where Uncrowned was admittedly not that active but

did

have a couple posts on site elsewhere and there's not enough scum for it to be Sneasel + Uncrowned + Pooky. So scum!Uncrowned should have paired with whichever was town, or either if they both were.

I don't see what the gambit does for Uncrowned here if scum, and it's possible that it's Pooky + Uncrowned and Uncrowned missed the Sneasel thing but I think that's

much

less likely than Sneasel seems to think it is.

I think Akarin is town now.. I like the recollection of her thought process here.

You know how when you get like halfway through a normal game and you just want to eliminate those players who have done absolutely nothing towny all game and you can't stand them making it to endgame, but then they flip VT?

I feel like that's Jake and Rainbow.

Maybe. Playing the odds, sure, random nulls have a 4/5 chance of being town. There's only a 65% chance that

both

true nulls will both flip town, though, if I understand math.

Unless we have evidence that Jake and Rainbow would do more as scum, I'm not sure it's a good idea. For example, I have known Jake to ghost out of a game when he was mafia. I want to say it was either 2d3 & Monks + Masons, but I'd have to check.

I’m curious as to why you have a slight paranoia on me but you apparently read my predecessor right so this question is more out of curiosity than anything.

Also tell me more about your Pooky paranoia. I’m trying to understand why they’re not giving reads. It really doesn’t make sense coming from either alignment.

I promise I will get back to you on this if/when I decide to fully townread you. It's not a terribly large paranoia, though.

With Pooky, it's tricky. Usually I would expect him to seize hold of a gamestate as scum, whereas as town he might just do whatever. In this game though, I am not sure. You aren't really obligated to do anything except for get trusted, as both alignments, really. Figuring out who we shouldn't trust is helpful, but technically the bare minimum a townie must do is be trusted.

Pooky can get away with not reading people terribly much and just messing around as either alignment.. I'm not sure what to expect. I'm gut-worried that the messing around, setting up couples without much game substance and all that he's doing is faked, but I don't have much in the way of reasoning or why I think that exactly.

[Fidget]

Um, the POE thing doesn't make sense the way I just said it, but it makes sense logically if you think about it.

Neither is likely to be anyone's top townread or top scumread is what I mean.

True but you can have townleans, so I think we save our strongest trs closer to the end and ship a pair that most people at least townlean both of them. I certainly won’t miss not being able to read RR’s posts in any case.

That is my thinking also.

The only worry I have is that scum has an incentive to get townread, perhaps slightly more than town do, so I might mistakenly put scum in my "weakly townlean" section as a result of their efforts. I would say I have a slight tendency to hard townread town, light townread town and scum, and then nullread town.

But I can't exactly suspect people for being townie, can I?

[Fidget]

Okay, I still want to hear from others but I’m starting to kind of mindmeld on this. Alright. if Fidget and Sneasel are okay with this pairing, I’m onboard.

Yes, I think if the consensus is that Sneasel is towny, then I support Akarin-Sneasel. I think they're both far more likely town than null, although Uncrowned is still by far my favorite. And if, say, Akarin is scum, my reads are probably doomed to begin with.

I TR him but he is not good enough for my daughter Akarin

Frankly he sounds like a crazy person.

Hahahaha.

HURT WITH A BLADE: pooky

PoE

gloria is giving off those obvtown vibes especially with her pressing onto pooky, akarin is solvey enough, unc is conftown, hectic i need to re-engage with when he's back, fidget on a whimsical reread of iso has garned a TR from me through effort-y, proactive posting style, necessary I townleaned before my flake but the iso i'd be willing to townlean through pressure towards pooky, rainbow is lurking

I could see shelly being town here, although I cannot be sure. The vast majority of us are town, so it follows that the large majority of townreads will be correct and agreed upon. Hrm..

When we do start pairing up, instead of pairing top townreads first, I kind of think we should pair from the middle pairs until we hit scum, then reevaluate for the last few.

akarin is scum because the four pages between this & her last post are filled with actual content and this is a really peculiar moment to pop in with a mech comment - go back and reread from her last post to this one and tell me you think an akarin who is reading and trying to solve the game makes this post without commenting on anything else

unconscious guilt over me saying I was going to trust her is showing

bet on it.

Oh okay, so much for this pairing. I think this read is completely and utterly insane, though, Sneasel.

[Fidget]

don't slander me I have no reads

rainbow reads weakly town because I don't feel like they're trying to look town (this is a setup which necessitates scum being very likeable), so much as doing things which they need to do as town. their iso is very undersold.

jake has done nothing in this game

I feel the opposite way about Rainbow. They've been bringing out flashy readslists, but in reality they haven't really done anything to further town wincon with them at all. After all, they haven't really shown us their work, no? So it really only gives us the vague impression that Rainbow is solving, without them actually having to show us any of their solving.

If you want someone who isn't trying to look town, I'd point to Jake for that from what I can remember.

[Fidget]

If Pooky is scum, he could possibly be setting up his buddy to be trusted and escape and him play the long game by suddenly fake towning it up? With everyone having him at bottom of his PoE, would be a great way for he and his buddy to distance imo.

He could also be town deliberately playing scummy to reach endgame. He does seem to be genuinely annoyed at Sneasel despite him being correct on setup spec but I’ve also seen him be annoyed as scum in Hideyoshi, so that in itself is NIA.

I’m not really sure what is going on with him and Jake. Did Jake want Pooky to make her a trust offer because she never made one formally to him.

HURT: RR No way town has either us so low.

I don't think Sneasel is correct on the setup spec.. yes, Pooky is scum with Uncrowned if they don't partner... but the only way to derive Pooky as scum from that is if Uncrowned is assumed to be scum.

It doesn't really make any sense..

[Fidget]

Was I unknowingly adopted by Pooky during my absence? I'm not opposed to it or anything, just curious.

[Fidget]

Sneasel, you're going to need to do more than discredit reasons for Akarin being townread in order to prove she is scum. Townreads, I feel, are going to be inherently weak since there is A.) no elimination mechanic, B.) many many absences, and C.) no flips yet.

So far, I have only noticed your insane Freudian unconscious guilt theory on why Akarin is scum here. Do you have more?

[Fidget]

Yes,

anyone who asks for you or Akarin's hand must first get permission from me or I will take out my trusty shotgun.

If fidget or akarin sneak out at night behind my back and end up dating the wrong sort of man I will literally flip out.

I will... keep all of that in mind.

[Fidget]

Are your fingers crossed behind your back young lady?

My paws aren't really capable of doing that, I promise.

Fidget is still cute. Has been generally towny.

Oh come on.

No problems with the rest of Akarins readslist, though.

R

A

I

N

B

O

W

R

E

A

D

S

L

I

S

T

!

!

!

V

e

r

s

i

o

n

3

{Rainbow Reads}

{Necessary Sneasel, Uncrowned}

{shellyc}

{Akarin}

{Equinox, Fidget}

{Hectic}

{Gloria Cleary, Jake The Wolfie}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{}

Dang, are you ever gonna explain any of these?

[Fidget]

No, I only mean the part about scum being guiltied if they trust each other. Not his theory concerning Pooky/Uncrowned. Uncrowned is very likely town though.

Oh. I see.

This is how I'm feeling currently. No heavy review, just from catching up. I want to believe I've got both scum below the dash, but beyond that, not so confident.

{Uncrowned}
{Akarin, Sneasel}
{Gloria}
-
{Hectic}
{shelly}
{Rainbow, Jake, Pooky}

[Fidget]

Like I get where y'all are coming from, but I just do not buy that a scumteam with 2 of Jake/Rainbow/Pooky decide to approach the game like this.

Perhaps not. There's plenty of room for shelly, Hectic, or maybe Gloria to be partnered with one of them, I'm thinking. Makes it tricky.

I do somewhat believe there's at least one scum in there, though. And with no discernable way to tell which one, makes me not want to pair them much.

rainbow's gloria read is indicative of "scum who thought a town looked misexecutable through their iso and didnt have an awareness of the gamestate"

jake has been active on site. i don't trust ellitell nowadays.

What in Gloria's ISO would cause negligent scum to believe she is miselimable? Isn't it easier to ignore the content of someone's posts and just go with what the majority say are easy miselims?

I think activity tells as a whole are bad, but when I've noticed Jake do it at least once before, it is harder to ignore.

[Fidget]

@Fidget, why do you think you’d be sr me here if it weren’t for Death Curse? I know you liked Rockhopper as well, so I really don’t understand your paranoia on me at all. Why wouldn’t negligent scum think I’m miselimable? I’m very obviously town here and it seriously baffles me how you’re not seeing it, yet.

Interestingly enough, that’s why I’m not sold on Pooky!scum because his reaction to RR putting me in the red means he’s tr me. I actually think his shocked reaction probably means he isn’t buddies with RR. So if Jake is town, then there’s someone wrong I’m tr here. I have no idea who yet.

You lend yourself to getting pocketed when you reciprocate townreads like this. And you're basing your read on Pooky off of his reaction to RR's read on you, as well. I'm very unsure how you're determining Pooky is town solely by his read on you.

I was suspecting you because of death curse, not in spite of it. Now I have a question for you: How good of a scum player do you feel you are, in general?

[Fidget]

I don't need to give reads because if I pair my daughters off correctly we win the game.

Are there three of us? You need to pair off three daughters correctly. And assuming you aren't dating one of us, that means you need to call 6/7 of the other townies correctly for this plan to work. Are you not concerned about that?

[Fidget]

Maybe. Playing the odds, sure, random nulls have a 4/5 chance of being town. There's only a 65% chance that both true nulls will both flip town, though, if I understand math.

odds shift down if we assume uncrowned is cleared
odds shift down again if we have consensus townreads

it's a good strategy in a weak plist where nobody towntells (so communal reads are closer to rand) but I'm not really sold on it unless people actually think Jake & rainbow both have a somewhere above rand chance of being town. vague "they feel like those lategame VT flips" isn't really doing it for me, we need to get grittier.

Yes, that makes me even more uncomfortable with the idea.

could you dissect those hectic & shelly reads for me?

Generally agree with all of Hectic's reads. I suppose I'm a tad paranoid due to next actually playing with scum!Hectic before.

Shelly is playing a lot more subdued than I'm used to. Maybe it's town-indicative actually. Hectic scumread early was sort of odd and forced. Recent posting has been better.

I do hope there's 1 scum in Rainbow/Jake.. If there is, and we don't pair either of those two, we cannot lose.

If there isn't scum at the bottom, then all scum has to do is nod their heads to us not pairing Rainbow/Jake, and they win. Which is what is occuring if they're T-T, I don't think a single player is really against it. Akarin did try to pair them, I suppose.

[Fidget]

Are there three of us? You need to pair off three daughters correctly. And assuming you aren't dating one of us, that means you need to call 6/7 of the other townies correctly for this plan to work. Are you not concerned about that?

Gloria has run away from home and is unlikely to listen to me.

I would never date one of my daughters fidget, that is incest and it pains me you would even think of such a thing.

I dunno, it could be a wholesome father-daughter date night type of deal.

[Fidget]

Could Uncrowned be deepwolfing to get their partner on the bench of trust fallees?

After reconsideration, this question implies that the town is doing an awful job.

You have an opinion on any other players Jake?

So much flirting between Uncrowned and Sneasel without anything happening. Come on already!

Gloria is doing her entitled "I can't believe you don't see how obvtown I am" thing, and uh, there's other meta which makes me inclined to think she's town.

Can confirm this is what I was waiting for Gloria to do. And there it was. Like clockwork.

Gloria has to be aware everyone reads her that way by now..?

Your other meta makes me less concerned, though.

[Fidget]

Ok Gloria I see.

So I'm thinking Uncrowned, Sneasel, Gloria, and Akarin should get out of here first. The only paranoia I harbour there is maybe a slight one on Akarin. Could do well to get that out of my mind, I suppose, but we are also gonna be really pressed for time and if one of these is wrong, extra time would be good.

[Fidget]

It's probably not exactly Jake-Rainbow, so I have to be concerned with who's the scum with them, but I can't come up with a decent answer as of yet.

There's the extremely worrying scenario they're both town in which case as I mentioned, scum just has to agree that Rainbow/Jake are the scummiest and they win.

I suppose if the second scum is scum with one of the two of them, they wouldn't really defend them, though. Perhaps we're fine.

[Fidget]

slightly prefer subbing you for akarin here but i do think the game goes in two different directions depending how gloria/akarin flip so meh

I could do that, but I wanna stay in the game longer if possible.

i don't feel like i townread shelly enough to want to trust her, and i'm worried a scumflip from her would accomplish nothing
is it bad i'd rather roll the dice on hectic than shelly atm?

Could see doing that yeah.

It's probably not exactly Jake-Rainbow, so I have to be concerned with who's the scum with them, but I can't come up with a decent answer as of yet.

pooky is scum lol

If he's scum with Rainbow or Jake, he's more or less committing to losing because both he and they are going to be around too long. Pooky's only interested in pairing off his daughters. Oh, maybe his dislike of you as a potential suitor is tactical, though.

[Fidget]

I'm sorry, Dad :( please don't be upset with me.

His read on you from earlier was odd, but I don't think he's scum. His read on Akarin was nuts, but I again don't

think

he's scum. Maybe I could refresh on why I think that sometime.

[Fidget]

I could do that, but I wanna stay in the game longer if possible.

why & why should we remove us 4 before you?

From my point of view, it's better to remove 4 of my strongest town and then, if all goes well, have to choose 1 townie out of a pool of 5 players. If people generally agree that I'm town, I'd be willing to do that. If not, or if there is someone else we would prefer, then I would defer to them instead. But that is my preference.

I think Hectic has a higher than random chance of being town. Higher than everyone else in my PoE. His recent posting has made me feel he's town even more. I am starting to feel like leaving Pooky/shelly/Jake/Rainbow behind will work.

[Fidget]

sigh Fidgey.

You don't even know who this guy is.

He could be an axe murderer.

You just don't get it. That's what makes the idea of being with him exciting.

[Fidget]

Do you approve of

any

of the suitors? Or are you just trying to keep me for yourself forever? You're smothering me!

[Fidget]

The deadline is Sunday, December 6, 2020, at 7:30 PM EST (UTC-5), which is in (expired on 2020-12-06 19:30:00).

Not to rush true love, but...

Should probably get to the marrying and/or riding off into the sunset soon in case we're horribly wrong on someone.

[Fidget]

If you all want Pooky to be town then you're gonna need a new scum candidate outside of RR/Jake *most likely*.

[Fidget]

Please don't shoot Sneasel, Pooky. Even if he has rabies. I like that about him.

[Fidget]

Well.. it's very possible we would have run into that error down the line, anyway.

[Fidget]

You think that early Hectic suspicion was planned? Surely shelly knows that we always expect her to bus, by now.

[Fidget]

What does 665 even mean

[Fidget]

So you meant for the post to be interpreted like this, then:

his avatar is making my heart go pitter patter.

hectic is always an easy read in that you always townread him

pls no

shelly is a bad person with bad intentions

idk I feel like pooky has tried to mislaunch me in almost all of his scumgames

also read is undeveloped

there is literally no launching this game shelly

FINE you have scumread me in almost all your scumgames

[Fidget]

So I don't really see what the slip is, but shelly's early read on Hectic doesn't read as particularly genuine soooo yeah. Can't really see why town!Shelly singles Hectic out like that at the beginning, so if shelly is town, gonna need some assistance seeing that.

[Fidget]

Pooky kinda dissuaded us from trusting everyone, I wouldn't put much stock into that. He's +town from before though for sure.

Has Akarin been particularly paranoid of Pooky? To the point where it makes sense to have her survive slightly longer than you?

I doubt scum!shelly was thinking that far there, you might be confirm biased. Also, even if scum!shelly wants to paranoia Pooky, she'll have to bring another townie down too. And Akarin was the one advocating for RR/Jake to leave. Kinda counterintuitive to that plan. I think scum!shelly was more or less just saying things to say things there.

[Fidget]

I suppose I'm holding off before putting all of my chips on it being shelly. Her interactions with Hectic don't come off very good to me at all though. I am a tad surprised she would.. opt for that strategy, though.

[Fidget]

If we understand the game correctly, we have to pick out 2 town in {shelly, Pooky, Jake, Rainbow} in order to win. Hm...

@Akarin it's shelly's strange fixation on Hectic early game that seems odd to me. Don't really see why she singled him out like she did. Like part of her reasoning for pushing Hectic was his

reaction

to her pushing him. What. If she's town, I just don't know what she saw to make her feel the need to confidently call Hectic scum, and then drop it later.

Gotta review sometime though.

[Fidget]

So you're confident that Pooky is scum because he scumreads you and uses a cute tone of voice? How's it scum-indictative of him to SR you if that's what he always does?

[Fidget]

That's a hell of a call

[Fidget]

What a plaayyyy

[Fidget]

You trust Rainbow why

[Fidget]

Hectic is probably with Jake or Rainbow and we are all currently wasting our time

[Fidget]

Jake Jake Jake....

Pooky, do you want to fall into my arms?

Pooky if you don't fall into my arms I'm going to drop kick you to the floor

Why'd you say this? Do you read Pooky as town?

I think this has already been stated, but I just wanted to throw it out there that UC is probably (though not confirmed) town.

However, I'm pretty sure the next thought I had hasn't been said yet:
Could Uncrowned be deepwolfing to get their partner on the bench of trust fallees?

Hmm, don't like that you felt the need to reiterate that, while acknowledging that you think it's already been stated. Could you answer the question in 459?

Like I get where y'all are coming from, but I just do not buy that a scumteam with 2 of Jake/Rainbow/Pooky decide to approach the game like this.

Rainbow always plays like this, it's hard to get a read there

She placed Gloria and Fidget lower once they started having doubts on rainbows, but it's hard to tell if it's towny OMGUS or I mean, what purpose does it even serve if it's scum-motivated OMGUS, it's not like they're trying to push the reads. I think I'm like nulltown there

I actually have the opposite impression of Pooky. I'm leantown on him because of the way he was trying to buddy up to me in the early game. I think in general, town!Pooky finds it easier to show his "soul" and try to convince people he's town just by how much he's enjoying himself, and power of friendship alone in a way. As scum, he resorts to it less, don't know why, maybe because he feels worse about it, or it's less fun for him. But generally he's more aggressive and ends up pushing miselims more than this kind of fluff.

If we care about Hectic interactions, I believe his main suspicion was Jake, whereas he defended Rainbow slightly. Pooky was a townlean.

He made a pretty big point about sussing Jake over Rainbow. Rainbow he didn't really care about but at least bothered to mention they always plays like this. Pooky he actually didn't really talk to all that much, which is a little surprising.

[Fidget]

Since I'm apparently conf!scum, I'm going to slank a little while everyone else pairs off and finds the real scum.

This shouldn't be an issue if you really think I'm scum, yes?

If you're town, you lose unless you point out the real scum. You are motivated to play less as a result?

[Fidget]

I'm saccing myself as the sole town that needs no pairing and thus needs no consideration. What is the issue here?

You're not the only person we can't read.

[Fidget]

Tell me, is hitting on Pooky a town-indicative or scum-indicative trait of your play?

[Fidget]

There's no death coming for you. Rejection, maybe.

Tell me, is hitting on Pooky a town-indicative or scum-indicative trait of your play?

..What do you think my response to this would be?

No idea. Probably not a straight answer. I said it to be snarky.

[Fidget]

Shelly, Gloria, Akarin, and myself are all confirmed town, to everybody who missed bits and pieces of that. More later.

[Fidget]

I would say that Hectic probably did not expect to leave so early, so do factor that in when you read through his stuff. He could not have known he'd be leaving first. It is likely he had to worry about possibly getting stuck in the bottom four.

Would he defend his partner as a result? Eh. He was always going to be the scum that got paired off first, so not really.

[Fidget]

Akrin!

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What would help is if you have an opinion on who is scum here. We already know it's you, Pooky, or Jake, so the readslist is kinda redundant.

[Fidget]

No, it does matter. If you're town, you lose if you choose incorrectly. So.. what's your Pooky reasoning, then?

[Fidget]

It bothers me that at least one of Rainbow/Jake is basically gamethrowing and making this much tougher for us.

I suppose we could put all of our efforts into reading Pooky, as a correct read on him will win the game.

[Fidget]

My only issue is that would Hectic be this content to leave with inactive buddy RR. or was he that confident that RR would get paired before Jake/Pooky?

Don't think Hectic meant to leave so quick, and even then, I'm not really sure what Hectic could do to save Rainbow, exactly. He was always going to leave before Rainbow does, that much was inevitable.

[Fidget]

Fidget!

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You're in the best position out of anyone in the game to choose because you already know one of the three of you's alignments..

In any case, doing something that we can read you off of would be *fantastic*. And helpful to a town wincon.

[Fidget]

Rainbow reads was really chatty in this game (town) by comparison. They challenged people a fair bit. Not really much in the way of explaining their reads, though.

Again also chatty in comparison in this game (town) too. Still they don't really explain reads much.

Talked a lot here too (town).

Rainbow actually made a bunch of short, game-related posts in all three of those games. They didn't have readslists except for one game where they had a couple. Here, they are 100% readslist, no player engagement like they had in those. However, I do notice a big similarity where they don't usually explain their reads, and instead mostly challenge others' reads. So that's consistent.

I'm not sure if a difference in alignment has caused them to be uncomfortable engaging, or if something about this setup or whatever else has caused them to just not care. I'm not comfortable giving them a partner, in any case.

[Fidget]

Something that is funny to note is that Hectic's evaluation of Rainbow Read's meta here:

Rainbow always plays like this, it's hard to get a read there

Isn't really true. Check those prior Rainbow games. Rainbow usually talks a lot more, and the readslist spam was never a thing until now.

Does Hectic feel the need to soft defend scum!Rainbow with a defense that isn't exactly accurate.. hmm. Or maybe he was more referring to how Rainbow doesn't usually have a lot of content, which is true.

[Fidget]

I am fine leaving Pooky and Rainbow out

[Fidget]

I trust Fidget

DAD!

Approve of us!

..Pretty please?

[Fidget]

I think Jake is town. I think it’s still 99.99999% RR both from Hectic’s weird positioning around her and Fidget’s extremely compelling metacase.

I think there's a noticeable difference for sure. I am a tad concerned the game or other circumstances caused the change. After all, there isn't a lot in their meta to go off of with the tiny post volume. So a small change could cause a lot of difference.

It is consistent that Rainbow never explains their reads. However, it is inconsistent that they are not engaging with other players in this game.

..I don't really like their responses to being called scum, either, but I don't know if they just don't want to play. Siigh. They're my best guess even if it feels lazy.

I kinda just wanna worry about Sneasel now. cx

[Fidget]

I trust Fidget

DAD!

Approve of us!

..Pretty please?

you know i can't say no to you when you make that face :]

Yaay!

[Fidget]

Rainbow, you haven't explained why Hectic nor Pooky are scum (or gone into any other read for that matter), so I don't really know what you are expecting us to think.

[Fidget]

have you read the substantial posts either Gloria or fidget have made about you? i think there's a lot more value in trying to find a hectic partner than calling Gloria frustrating

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I am not really concerned with voting or pushes. My concern is that you haven't done anything to engage with other players, period, and have just posted readslists.

I linked your other games that caused me to believe this. You spoke a lot in those games. You never spoke in this game, save for a bit in RVS. Why? I have been giving room to believe that your playstyle was altered by this game, I do consider that to be a potential explanation. That's why I'm not willing to put this to rest quite yet.

[Fidget]

I think it would be in your best interest not to debate with Gloria at this point, yes.

Just gotta do grand reviews on Pooky, Rainbow, and Jake. Eventually, when I have time. This is winnable. Unless Sneasel's scum, in which case maybe not.

[Fidget]

Noooo

[Fidget]

Noooo

If it was totally up to me, I’d trust Pooky over Jake but I’ve given up on convincing anyone of that. It really doesn’t matter anyway because I think RR is extremely obvious scum because it makes absolutely no sense for a slot who has hardly done a damn thing all game to be that upset about not escaping, because it’s beyond clear that their insistence on BOTH Pooky/Jake being unpaired only makes sense if they’re scum.

Plus Hectic’s damning associatives, plus Fidget RR metacase, plus their ridiculous shade on me and discredit on Fidget with absolutely no logical reasoning behind it. I really don’t see how it’s not them.

Hell, I’d be willing to ship everyone else if that was the only way to guarantee they never get trusted.

Oh, I just wanted Sneasel to stop trusting people other than me.

[Fidget]

:x

[Fidget]

Too much emotion from rainbow. Making me paranoid. I can see why they would be frustrated, though, so should I really give them town credit for this? I would be angry too, probably.

If I could just crush my doubts about Rainbow, I'd accept Sneasel on the spot and exit the game happily.

Rainbow still doesn't really come across like a townie who is fine with staying behind, at all. But I suppose that lines up with how they don't really have an opinion on who the other scum is. But, but, that is a very convenient stance for scum to take.

[Fidget]

Hi Akarin, hello Sneasel.

I'm up for hugs and ice cream. I have a question for Sneasel, too: What is your current opinion of Pooky, minus sheeping Gloria's read of him?

[Fidget]

Oh, I just wanted Sneasel to stop trusting people other than me.

i live to stress you out :)

p-edit: :oops: s- stop that, my nose is very important

I'll be upset if you leave :(

[Fidget]

Thank u Dad

[Fidget]

i hate people who say this shit but i'm at the point where i think rr is scum, who the hell knows what jake's deal is, pooky sure could be scum but i'd rather lose to him pretending to play the game than lose to jake lolcatting the entire thing except for the bit where he had a low-grade temper tantrum

Basically, yeah. That's what I think currently, I want to throw Jake/Rainbow out even if it ignores how we were supposed to leave Pooky out because of basically that.

It's probably Rainbow.

Definitely.

[Fidget]

i think we can win with sneasel-jake

i have a good feeling girls

this is obviously pandering regardless of alignment and if pooky is scum he's POE'd so hard he has no option BUT to pander

That's consistent with his entire game the whole way through anyway.

So does scum accept their fate and select two other players to save, or do they fight to not be in the bottom two?

..interestingly enough, I definitely see scum!Pooky choosing "pandering" and scum!Rainbow choosing "fighting". So that sucks.

Honestly could see Pooky having a higher chance of flipping scum than Jake by virtue of Pooky being good at this kind of manipulation, but because of that very reason you mentioned earlier where I'd be way angrier losing to Jake!scum than Pooky!scum, it's hard to justify saving Jake over Pooky.

[Fidget]

:X

[Fidget]

Nothing recently is helpful to solving the PoE, unfortunately. I don't really have anything to add to what's been said.

I do still think I want Jake/RR to be left out of the dance, and I'll leave it there.

[Fidget]

The simplest explanation really probably is just that one of Jake/RR is fed up with the game and/or playing it up that they're fed up with the game.

I don't feel like there's much we can do to solve them at this point. Rainbow sounded defeated the moment we put any scrutiny on them whatsoever and stopped playing. I can buy that it made them frustrated, yes, but that doesn't change that they pretty much laid down immediately without caring who of Jake/Pooky is left out.

And Jake, idk where Jake is.

Pooky played the game, albeit in a way that is hard for me to read by mostly just messing around, but he did play.

[Fidget]

I don't feel like there's much we can do to solve them at this point. Rainbow sounded defeated the moment we put any scrutiny on them whatsoever and stopped playing. I can buy that it made them frustrated, yes, but that doesn't change that they pretty much laid down immediately without caring who of Jake/Pooky is left out.

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Why would I have any reason to be disingenuous..?

Try this: ISO yourself. What's the first post you make outside of readslists and fluff?

Akrin!

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Yeah. This is the kind of tone I'm taking about. It feels like you gave up even before Gloria began frustrating you.

Spoiler: and it continues

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Fidget!

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You say that you have Pooky and Jake as scum and slightly lean Pooky, but legitimately nowhere can I find the reasoning for either read until multiple weeks later (yesterday). Your time got taken up arguing whether or not you already had Pooky as scum, among some other arguments with Gloria.