Open 807 | Town Win

[Something_Smart]

Sum.

[Something_Smart]

I would love to grace you with benevolence. I'll let you know if I get any.

[Something_Smart]

I'm going to stop fluffposting now because I don't want the >1/2 of the player list with <=5 posts to be bogged down before they can enter the game.

Not only that, it seems to be actively preventing people from getting into the game, at least it is for me.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe marginally.

[Something_Smart]

I can’t tell if implo is serious or not about yelling at people to stop fluffposting and actually play the game but if he is then I agree it feels a bit LAMISTy.

ok but like it's actually beneficial to town. LAMIST usually has this connotation of, doing things to underscore one's town motivations that don't actually help town, but that's not what it is in this case. especially since it's followed up with an actual attempt at content, indicating that it wasn't just empty words.

[Something_Smart]

The mod probably tried to send it to Battle_Mage.

[Something_Smart]

PP said there was one. I think he assumed it was sent to everyone, without checking.

[Something_Smart]

anything to say about the game?

not especially?

I can reread the part of the game after people stopped actively inhibiting others from being productive, but I'm still kind of annoyed about that.

[Something_Smart]

at the moment? no

[Something_Smart]

Maybe to all three.

[Something_Smart]

Indeed I did.

[Something_Smart]

I'm sorry, I'll stop being a salty asshole and read when I get the opportunity.

I'm just in a bad mood today because of daylight saving and because I have homework and I keep procrastinating it.

[Something_Smart]

No one actively inhibited anything.

I don't really think that's true. I saw several instances of shitpost responses to serious posts, encouraging shitposting, and just generally spamming up the thread. This makes it harder for people to actually play seriously.

It probably wasn't on purpose. But it's still annoying.

[Something_Smart]

Welcome to mafia?

Most mafia games are not like this

[Something_Smart]

I will be happier once I figure out this thing I'm stuck on in a project I'm working on :/

[Something_Smart]

Okay I'm here. I'll do this game my due diligence and read the whole thing even though half of it is just shitposting.

[Something_Smart]

I hate day one that’s why I don’t post much I read though but don’t feel like I have anything worth posting or anything

This is the first really noteworthy thing that's stuck out to me. I'm totally on board with having no thoughts at this point, but that's because there had been no serious content, and not because of any intrinsic quality of Day 1...

[Something_Smart]

@scipio, why are you so determined to defend pooks?

Excuse me?

[Something_Smart]

They seem like a bunch of filler posts which look like they're trying to say something when they really aren't.

In my experience this is rarely a thing that scum do. Coming up with takes isn't hard. The hard part is making them look genuine.

[Something_Smart]

I think A50 is town.

Maybe-- I thought him forgetting it was open was slightly +town (or at least -main faction scum) because scum had pregame choices.

[Something_Smart]

@STD: You remind me much of a player named Fenrir

Serious talk: I may not have any confident reads yet, but I feel like the top 4 posters are indeed all Town, and that scum are happy to let them take bouts at each other while they wait for a chance to jump on the duel loser.

Like, seriously.. SIX players have posted less than N_M??

VC 1.12

Not voting (2):

Something_Smart, implosion

Scipio1 (1):

Dunnstral

Not_Mafia (1):

Minimegabyte

implosion (1):

Save The Dragons

Dunnstral (1):

Salsabil Faria

Battle Mage (1):

Artemiana

Save The Dragons (3):

Battle Mage, PookyTheMagicalBear, PenguinPower

PookyTheMagicalBear (2):

Almost50, Not_Mafia

MiniMegabyte (1):

Scipio1

(expired on 2021-03-24 08:06:31) until deadline

@mod this post is unreadable on mobile

[Something_Smart]

chainsaw?

That is... not what a chainsaw is

[Something_Smart]

Scipio and STD feel town, and maybe implosion?

If I had to pick out a scumspect it would be Mini, but that's pretty minor.

[Something_Smart]

Ty

[Something_Smart]

and to be clear, the player in question didn't even go quiet at E-1, it was more like, from the first vote, instant shut-down.

She was V/LA.

[Something_Smart]

nah, she posted and said she didn't wanna post anymore because she felt disrespected at getting voted or something.

That is definitely not what happened.

[Something_Smart]

I think I misread the second line of 415 as "I'm probably going to be gone for an additional 24 hours so don't chew out everyone who is/was on my wagon."

[Something_Smart]

Yeah okay that's pretty horrible.

[Something_Smart]

I mean she should be her own defense attorney. Stalling for 48 hours because three people voted you while you were gone is... questionable at best.

[Something_Smart]

And she should definitely claim when she gets back.

[Something_Smart]

I think we shouldn't be saying much until she claims.

[Something_Smart]

It was, look at the next page. I misread it.

[Something_Smart]

It's unlikely that any of the late votes were bussing, with the exception of STD.

I don't think it's out of the question for BM to start that wagon as scum, since he wouldn't have expected Artemiana to just roll over and die. But I'll have to go back and look at the circumstances under which the vote was made.

[Something_Smart]

EXACTLY! This is PROOF he didn't die hiding behind N_M

Uh... Show your work?

[Something_Smart]

PP hid behind implo or STD, and the former is much much more likely than the latter.

Show your work here too.

[Something_Smart]

@mod why does N_M's death say N1 and PP's say D2?

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand any of it.

[Something_Smart]

N_M died at night, PP died at the start of the day. The two did not die "simultaneously". I thought YOU should explain that as a member of the NRG.

They both died during the night. As a member of the NRG I know that there is no such thing as dying at the start of the day.

[Something_Smart]

ISO PP. He voted implo in RVS, was focused on him all day, and revoted him to reassert his crumb.

Gonna have to call BS on this. I've been mis-exed because people thought that a hider visited me, the person they had been pushing all day.

News flash, hiders want to not visit scum. You do not hide behind a person you're scumreading. That's terrible play.

[Something_Smart]

Hiding behind N_M without crumbing it would be much much worse play, don't you think?

Didn't you just point out the "lying clodpole" thing as a potential N_M crumb?

[Something_Smart]

Maybe a terrible play but not 0 helpful for the town? Like, PenguinPower's targeting implosion strongly on Day 1, then his dying at N1 most probably indicates another scum (in this case implosion) here? His questionable terrible play according to you, actually not that terrible? AT Day 1, we caught 1 scum, from PenguinPower's dying we may have caught another one.... not that bad actually.

But like, if he already scumreads implosion, he could just target someone else and try to execute implosion today. Since he's a confirmed PR people would probably listen to him, and then we'd have one fewer dead townie and two alive confirmed townies.

[Something_Smart]

Umm, but if he targeted Not_Mafia at N1, then why he isn't alive?

...Because N_M died?

[Something_Smart]

Hider is immune to NK's, but if their target dies, they die too.
Weak hider, in addition to the above, dies if they target scum.

[Something_Smart]

Hider is immune to NK's, but if their target dies, they die too.
Weak hider, in addition to the above, dies if they target scum.

Then I'm right? If

PenguinPower

was immune to the nk, then obviously he targeted scum which can't be

Not_Mafia

?

Hider is immune to NK's, but

if their target dies, they die too.

Weak hider, in addition to the above, dies if they target scum.

[Something_Smart]

I was willing to believe that Salsa's first dumbtell could be faked but this one seems quite unlikely to be fake. I think she's probably just town.

[Something_Smart]

qq can mafia give multiple powers to a person?

I think so?

[Something_Smart]

Mini is personally a nice and benevolent character, and would be more likely to:

1. Encourage their teammate to take a cool PR.
2. Get excited at having a high powered team.

I mean scum should give power to the player more likely to survive, and given that Artemiana rolled over and died, it's likely that most teams wouldn't have given her a PR.

[Something_Smart]

Artemiana being so pissed off makes me think it slightly more likely they were being bussed.

This is actually an interesting theory

I would say that the most likely busser (aside from STD who doesn't count) is you, but I'm not sure I feel that way now because you were the first one to bring this up.

[Something_Smart]

I think you are underestimating how bad it is for scum to lose a member D1. Follower becomes a cop. Jailkeeper becomes even stronger than a cop. Artemiana wasn't a consensus execution until those late people jumped on-- she hadn't even given any content.

[Something_Smart]

I feel pretty weird about you wanting to give immunity to the latecomers in prime bussing territory, but focus your attention on me instead? Especially since you haven't really been pushing anyone off wagon either?

I'm not pushing anyone at all. I thought that wagon-wise, the people on the back end looked townier than you did, but now you look towny too for presenting a theory that would implicate yourself, and the others look a bit less towny due to the possibility that the theory is true.

[Something_Smart]

exactly - you're not pushing anyone. All you've done is defend Artemiana and try to buy the slot more time, and now throw the weakest shade at me.

I think the chances of scum in this position not wanting to rock the boat with too many scumreads is HIGH.

Sure... but this is how I always am. Artemiana was wagoned while V/LA without any chance to defend herself. Then when she came back she decided not to participate, which is of course a different matter.

And I would never be strongly pushing a scumread this early in the game, as either alignment.

(Also, I'm not sure I agree with the claim that scum would be sitting around doing nothing right now. They're in a pretty terrible spot and so I would think they'd need to try to establish mis-exes before town gets its shit together, rather than narrowing the field, as Pooky said.)

[Something_Smart]

always punish players who defend scum.

That's silly. That will just teach people to never defend anyone rather than actually learn to distinguish good arguments from bad.

When Artemiana was first run up, the case on her was incredibly weak. Doesn't matter that she was scum. The only solid evidence came when she came back from V/LA and then refused to participate.

[Something_Smart]

I also don't agree good scum strategy here would be to start actively and conspicuously pushing for mis-elims - especially if they weren't even on the wagon, as you weren't. it would be a short life expectancy play so early.

I mean, if the other main scum was off wagon, they've probably got a short life expectancy anyway. But yeah, that is a fair point.

[Something_Smart]

the case was weak, but that doesn't really matter. what matters is plenty of folk went with it, and you didn't.

Why does that matter? I would never join a wagon based on a case that weak.

You don't think scum bussed, so who do you suppose is scum? Implosion?

Mini, implosion, STD, Dunn are the people I'm looking at, roughly in that order.

[Something_Smart]

That said I'm not sure why S_S is acting like scum can't recruit the traitor? In my mind recruiting the traitor is the #1 powerup for scum to pick.

Perhaps they can, but that requires them to both know who the traitor is and sacrifice a kill, with pretty disastrous consequences if they're wrong.

I suppose it's a little more likely that scum bussed if they are a recruiter, but that's still a pretty big risk to be taking unless they already knew who the traitor was (which they evidently didn't).

[Something_Smart]

if the main team were both eliminated then the Traitors inherits the factional kill

I sincerely hope this is not the case. It's one of the reason why Stack the Deck sucks, and it's not standard at all.

[Something_Smart]

A lot of people are talking about looking in the offwagon people and are not including STD. Do those people think that scum wouldn't hammer their partner after their partner has claimed PR and been counterclaimed?

[Something_Smart]

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with wagon positioning.

[Something_Smart]

I think you could easily be scum. You voted me as a direct response to the Artemiana wagon forming, which is a little on the nose, but doesn't seem unreasonable if you at least want to try to slow the wagon down so Artemiana can come back and defend herself.

And Pooky's defense attorney argument doesn't really do much for me; that read as pretty obvious shitposting.

[Something_Smart]

Sure, it can be. Why wouldn't STD do that as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Fear of what? That someone would misinterpret it as him seriously defending her?

[Something_Smart]

you can win as town white flag style by eliminating the other two players (and they get two power roles to work with).

@mod: no they don't

[Something_Smart]

Not mid-game...

[Something_Smart]

Lol

[Something_Smart]

._.

[Something_Smart]

That's literally the dumbest thing about Stack the Deck. This setup was supposed to be a fixed version of Stack the Deck :X

[Something_Smart]

Scipio was also pretty towny on D1 iirc

[Something_Smart]

I would like to know S_S's townpings from Scipio d1.

Oh I really thought I posted them. Let me go look

[Something_Smart]

I liked Scipio's mindset. It seemed like he was trying to push the game forward advance an agenda or appear consistent. For instance, he defended Pooky but admitted that it wasn't related to how he personally felt about Pooky, and he said he didn't vote much on D1 and then dropped a vote just a few pages later. It doesn't read as very planned or calculated.

[Something_Smart]

Implosion should probably be claiming.

[Something_Smart]

am i crazy here

Nope, you're correct.

[Something_Smart]

We wait for implosion to claim before doing anything, of course.

[Something_Smart]

We should not be speculating on the claim until everyone checks in and we see if there's a counterclaim, and until implosion claims.

[Something_Smart]

Can we stop talking about CC's...

[Something_Smart]

is Dunn's a genuine dumbtell? or feigned? i'm leaning towards the former, and Dunn is just super low-efforting and didn't read the setup. if so, Dunn probably town.

This seems like it's likely a miscommunication

[Something_Smart]

talk me through it

Well I don't know exactly what you're interpreting Dunn's post to mean, but it seems pretty clear to me. There is likely a third PR, unless scum made it a low-power game by choosing no upgrades.

[Something_Smart]

So we're waiting on Scipio, Salsa, and A50 to counterclaim/not counterclaim.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: MiniMegabyte

[Something_Smart]

So we're waiting on Scipio, Salsa, and A50 to counterclaim/not counterclaim.

Looking back at it, I probably should have just CC'd.

A50 can you explain this? Was this not intended to be a soft-CC?

[Something_Smart]

Were you intending to make people think you were follower?

If so why?

[Something_Smart]

My case is that you soft CC'd follower to get a PR executed and now you're being dodgy about it.

[Something_Smart]

I don't necessarily think you're scum, but I don't see how it benefits town for you to be cryptic right now.

[Something_Smart]

I fully believed she was lying scum and I wanted to draw the NK, only it occurred to me to do that too late. The elimination itself was NOT a result of that post, but of her bad wording of "went nowhere" which is never what a Follower gets.

I guess. I mean, I voted partly because I thought that you might have been implying a CC, just like PP was.

I suppose I shouldn't press it anymore. It's annoying, but within the realm of annoying things I've seen you do before as town

[Something_Smart]

Am I remembering right that S_S considers himself really bad at scum?

Yeah.

[Something_Smart]

I guess we should probably just massclaim?

Pooky claims next, of course.

[Something_Smart]

Salsa -> me -> Scipio for the remaining claim order?

[Something_Smart]

I see why Scipio would be spewed town.

I do not see why Salsa would be spewed town.

[Something_Smart]

In fact, if A50 is traitor, it makes perfect sense for him to do this if Salsa is main scum and didn't realize she was pushing her own traitor.

[Something_Smart]

(Obviously, that was posted before I read A50's last post, lmao.)

[Something_Smart]

theres no way this is a town thing to do in what fantasy world does town play this way

I mean... you have met A50 before, right?

[Something_Smart]

ive literally never seen any1 fake a guilty as town in mylo before what

I don't think I have either, but I also don't think I've ever seen scum claim and retract a guilty like this.

I don't want to say too much before Salsa claims, but I'm having a hard time understanding why scum-A50 would switch his target to Salsa, whom multiple people had just called town.

[Something_Smart]

i don't think pooky's reaction is particularly town indicative

Agree with this. I think Pooky probably reacts pretty much the same regardless of alignment.

[Something_Smart]

VT.

[Something_Smart]

(also; we are no-limming and a50 is targeting me here, yes?)

Yes.

[Something_Smart]

Is this allowed that the last scum and the traitor can give hints to each other in the day phase?

Sure, why not?

I mean, if A50 is the traitor, then he's hinting to his partner whoever they are, because they obviously know that there isn't another PR. But at that time, it made sense to me that he might want to hint specifically to you, so that you would know to stop pushing him. (Obviously, it doesn't make sense anymore.)

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: No Exe

[Something_Smart]

The "Traitor" returns a "VT" result to Ne

...no they don't? traitor is not VT...

[Something_Smart]

Traitor is not VT. What's not clear about this? Neapolitan gets "VT" on players who are VT and "not VT" on players who are not VT.

That is not how modern traitors work, and neapolitan is not a cop besides. Function-wise it's closer to a rolecop/vanilla cop.

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

...

[Something_Smart]

(No BS, no gimmicks I promise)

Excuse me for finding this a

little

hard to believe.

Why did you claim this now rather than after we no-exed?

[Something_Smart]

Do you think Salsa is main scum or traitor?

[Something_Smart]

Salsa, what makes you think that A50 is main scum, rather than traitor?

[Something_Smart]

Well, because that seems like a rather weird opinion to have, and understanding why might shed some light on the veracity of it.

[Something_Smart]

Why it is weird?

It's weird because the traitor is the only one who knows the full scumteam so it makes sense that the traitor would try to push harder than the regular mafia since the traitor knows they aren't pushing on their partner.

Why do you think the traitor is hiding purposely? What does your gut say would be different if he were the traitor?

[Something_Smart]

s_s who do you think is scum

Neither Salsa nor A50 are making a lot of sense to me right now. I think I would favor Salsa being scum because A50 is known not to make sense as town, and he was on the Artemiana wagon besides.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: no execution

[Something_Smart]

Not sure if mod requires 3/6 or 4/6.

[Something_Smart]

lmaooooo

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure that Pooky is never scum with implosion given the way he gunned for implosion on D2.

[Something_Smart]

So you do agree it's salsabil.... or scipio. Yes??

Yeah.

My reads right now are (town) implosion - A50 - (sizable gap) - Scipio - (reasonable gap) - Salsa (scum).

[Something_Smart]

(or maybe you are playing the "I am a pissed townie" card??)

I mean clearly she is, the question is just is it real or a gambit.

[Something_Smart]

is this pooky softing traitor to the S_S and arte scumteam, or..............

How would that be a soft?

[Something_Smart]

He literally followed that interaction up by voting me. In what world does he think "hm, maybe he'll understand I'm his traitor if I interrogate him and then push him!"

[Something_Smart]

I think it's likely that Pooky softed very weakly or not at all, considering scum clearly didn't know he was traitor.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, it's definitely plausible.

Was there anyone who started randomly calling you town or trying to divert away from you during that?

[Something_Smart]

I did, yes. That wasn't random, though.

[Something_Smart]

I am on 2 minds now. I could insist on Salsabil and own the result (win or loss), or I could go S_S and blame implo if that's wrong.

[Something_Smart]

I mean I don't see the reason to be rushing, especially since it seems like there's still plenty to talk about.

[Something_Smart]

That's literally the dumbest thing about Stack the Deck. This setup was supposed to be a fixed version of Stack the Deck :X

If I put you in my PoE later on, or if I forget why I TR you, would you be kind enough as to point me to this post? Thank you

Can I play this card now?

[Something_Smart]

I mean implo also tried to argue that Pooky pushing me was a soft so like

excuse me for not totally trusting his judgement there

I feel like the person we need to hear from right now is Scipio. Like, he said implosion was his second scum choice after Salsa, which makes very little sense to me. Scipio, why do you think Pooky turns around and busses implosion after bussing and killing his other partner? (Among other things, that would put him at massive risk of getting shot.) Why does implosion claim VT rather than trying to draw out a PR?

[Something_Smart]

how does this

don't wanna end the day yet

square with this?

VOTE: Salsabil

[Something_Smart]

For crying out loud.

[Something_Smart]

I think I was actually leaning Scipio scum over Salsa before Salsa went V/LA.

Now I think we just have to wait for the replacement.

[Something_Smart]

@s_s tell me what scum!me was trying to do by invoking paranoia on pooky for not dying and kill him the corresponding night

try to see whether you would actually be able to get him executed off of paranoia?

that seems like a perfectly reasonable scum play to me, to stir up a bit of paranoia of a widely-townread and strong player, and then if it doesn't work, just kill them anyway.

[Something_Smart]

hi MT!

Are you referring to a different VLA? If not, what's up with this "I was leaning Scipio scum before" comment?

No I was not, and I think it's pretty self-explanatory? I was leaning Scipio scum before Salsa's V/LA. I didn't say anything about it.

you mention Salsa as your strongest scum by a reasonable gap, is there a reason in particular you didn't vote for her?

because I like taking my time and hate making decisions?

[Something_Smart]

This is the tell that *strongly* implies that Salsa wouldn't make the NM kill. She seems to have no idea how Hider works AND we learn later she doesn't know how crumbing works (since she thinks it's not allowed) so how in god's name would she know to look for a hider visit crumb anyway?

is there a reason Salsa couldn't have killed NM for a reason other than the crumb?

[Something_Smart]

You can release the mafia PT.

That should hopefully explain why I lost my motivation near the end. (Aside from me being confident implosion was the traitor because he softed to me and then defended Artemiana.)

[Something_Smart]

The tl;dr is that the mod accidentally told Pooky he was bulletproof in his role PM, which is presumably why he played so cavalierly.

[Something_Smart]

I softed to you many times ! <3

The problem is that I had written you off as not traitor due to your push on Artemiana, because I thought that the traitor would know not to bus because they might get NK'd :/

Also idk maybe I was obtuse. But implosion saying he would wait to vote until he could sheep me (when I thought he would know that I'm VERY slow to use my vote) felt more like a soft than anything you said.

[Something_Smart]

#1 I would never have gotten, I don't know anything about anime
#2 and #3 maybe I would have gotten if I'd noticed them both, but I feel like you'd have to be really carefully looking for those to find them.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I mean we both would have played differently if the setup had been more clear. Not really much we could do about that :/

You played well, and take the fact that I shot you as a compliment to your towngame