Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Briar]

When I’m home I’ll be able to give more congruent game-thoughts, so I’m not avoiding the question regarding unwnd/Luke/Dunnstral.

[Briar]

Ana is a very strong scum player, but not impossible to catch.

[Briar]

Ana if my dream was right I still love you.

[Briar]

Speaking of votes: when is the best time for us to flip? Assuming Keep first is still the preferred move — the other groups will be harder to resolve but I don’t know when it’s best to give up our presence vs. confirmed flips.

[Briar]

<3

[Briar]

Unwnd that made me feel the opposite of good. ):

[Briar]

Infinity/catboi/(unwnd/Dunn) is my current solve.

[Briar]

@Infinity, am on break in 15-30 mins, anything particular you want me to shotgun to you then? I’ll be home later and can be more thorough then but yeah.

[Briar]

Also, can you sum up your case on Ana? I’ve skimmed a bit but going in depth hasn’t happened. Also you using those smiley faces frighten me lmfao.

[Briar]

In the interests of not having half this table informed tiptoeing around my identity/meta when I’m not actively hiding it: I’m Ydrasse.

Why did this matter much to you if I'm not genuinely sorting you anyway?

This is where we can start.

It was for the benefit of everyone, as I felt I had leaned too much into who I was at that point and it’s likely to become frustrating at that point.

[Briar]

For everyone else at least, I like surprising people with who I am post game but it didn’t feel like it’d have gain here and people getting pissy over me being secretive makes not a fun game.

(Not that I think people here would get pissy, but it might have been grating.)

[Briar]

Infinity, did you guess my main?

Huh, okay; the scum range comment made me curious because you generally say that when I’m town, I’m really obvious town (and I agree that my scum game is... polarizing.) So I wasn’t sure where the sudden change might have come from.

@ydrasse I guess these are the posts I was more curious about. It feels like you're putting importance on my sorting process of you and I'm not sure why.

It was because my impression (that you knew my main in that moment) was at odds with things you have previously said on my play, which confused me because I wasn’t sure what the intention would be behind going from one philosophy how you view me to the next. It matters because, if you are town, you are at a place where you know one of me/Ana is scum (and broadly townread at that), so the way you approach both of us is something of note to me.

This applies to you being scum, albeit in this case you’re choosing who you think you can cast more doubt on.

[Briar]

Oh yeah, 1289 felt very different from the impression I had gotten all game of unwnd.

[Briar]

I’ve felt my read towards unwnd shifting towards being scummier, just because he seemed a bit deflated/phoning it in when he was joking around a bit ago; and posts like 1289 ring more to me as the true feelings of like, just resignment/anger for this game bleeding through. Which I think is more reasonable to happen post-group-reveal.

[Briar]

Also, @Infinity, a lot of this game doesn’t make sense to me if specifically Ana is scum, because of what I know of her scumgame. Yes I say that it could exist but the reads she has this game and her philosophy on scum narrow it down to like... a game that can’t exist with that sort of scumteam, and because she’s not outed I’m being a bit vague but I hope she understands.

Alternatively, she could still just be wrong, but when she’s town she usually is right more often and I can only remember a few times where she was wrong.

[Briar]

My joking is to ground myself in reality that this game doesn't need to be hellpit

If I sat here and just relented my frustrations, it wouldn't be good. It's also not productive

Okay, that is fair. Why did you think it was getting anywhere near to hellpit, or is that just because of how people read you?

[Briar]

Ugh, fine, I don’t want to let it slide as NAI but you asked nicely. >_>

[Briar]

I haven’t seen them that much.

...and I do think you’re wrong a little bit regardless.

[Briar]

I get it unwnd, don’t worry.

[Briar]

Also, @Infinity, a lot of this game doesn’t make sense to me if specifically Ana is scum, because of what I know of her scumgame. Yes I say that it could exist but the reads she has this game and her philosophy on scum narrow it down to like... a game that can’t exist with that sort of scumteam, and because she’s not outed I’m being a bit vague but I hope she understands.

Alternatively, she could still just be wrong, but when she’s town she usually is right more often and I can only remember a few times where she was wrong.

I think this is important to talk about so I'm going to be a bit less vague, why can't she be scum with catboi and dunn for example? Also this setup might change how she approaches scum

I toyed around with the very last part a bit while I was working. I don’t know if she would sacrifice the way she generally treats her teammates for this game, but I guess it’s possible. Ana’s philosophy on scum play generally dictates that the people she pushes are more likely to be town, because she hates bussing from what I understand.

Hold on, back to work but I just had a thought or two but basically she 1v1s where she has to and she pushed S_S so much that if she’s scum he’s confirmed town and also probably unwnd which means I am a dumb ass who should trust D1 too probably and then obviously you would be town in that situation and I dunno if that makes sense since fast typing but J didn’t want to forget it.

[Briar]

I get it unwnd, don’t worry.

I appreciate your understanding and think you're playing really well regardless of your alignment

<3

[Briar]

Am back to work now and will BBL.

[Briar]

Basically it’s hedging on “how much does Ana deviate from her scumplay and does the nature of this setup mean she has to do it.”

I’m not convinced because her body of work this game feels just so... game-losing I guess if she’s scum by conceding here and the world she’s suggested for your behavior, behavior elsewhere, etc feels so simplistic in comparison to me? I’ll reread some of her scum games to see if she has ever deviated hard from her meta but I don’t think it’ll bear much fruit honestly.

I’m sorry if I’m writing you off too quickly though too, please keep posting/solving if you are town so we have your thoughts for when our group is gone.

[Briar]

I too am tired.

[Briar]

Fuck, I don't want to solve the Wall.

[Briar]

Luke is so genuine; I just read his ISO and his interactions with Dunnstral feel really sincere. I think that scum!Luke probably tries to double down on Dunnstral there in other ways if he can't get what he wants out of the talk about mechanics, regarding Dunn locking in yesterday? But instead he's trying to work with him. In general, I think he's just been so /open/ with what he's thinking, trying to compromise with what's best, being humble, etc.

Tonally, he just sounds good. He's not agenda-based at all, not trying to hammer his way through the Wall, just vibing and solving with enough like... good. I don't know the word for this, but his posts are just good and I like them.

Subsequently, uh, I know unwnd told me that his frustration was NAI and I really do get it, but reading it in the context of Luke and Dunn trying to engage with each other without it being a toxic slapfight really does feel like frustrated scum who wants to shut down a discussion between two townies, which is... about as much as scum can do this game, it feels like: shut down the townies and cause potential strife, to hope for a WIFOM win or someone getting too paranoid. (Your feelings are still valid unwnd, I am sorry, but I just can't take this as /not/ AI.)

I don't want unwnd to be scum but like, ugh. I'm getting to that point right now. Which would make my solve catboi (this is currently the weakest of the reads, and it is admittedly going off of D1 more than today, and the fact that I don't think that S_S can be scum with either Ana or Infinity. I haven't read over Ana's other games, but I don't think that scum!S_S exists with either Infinity nor Ana this game as a potential scumpartner for them both. Which uh, sucks for catboi honestly because I don't think he's played bad if I'm doubting myself here but it's more that he's getting netted by other things going on), unwnd, and Infinity -- who, I know wanted me to talk about my read on her but it's entangled in how I'm viewing Ana this game frankly. You both have a 50% chance to be scum but realistically it's... just, over the course of the game, I don't catch myself thinking that Ana is scummy when we disagree, and it feels like we're collaborating together. Which, probably sounds dumb because she's a good scum player and I do still have a seed of doubt, but it feels more like she's just wrong whenever we interact and we're trying to figure it out together? I've liked her interactions over the course of the game, and I really do think that the pool that's left for her to be scum with based off of what she's done doesn't make sense to me as much? It has like, 1/3 scum that I agree with. Granted I still need to check my work here regarding how strictly she sticks to not bussing but I have a feeling anyways that I'll come up with what I'm expecting to.

[Briar]

So, tl;dr as of right now: catboi/unwnd/Infinity scumteam, everyone else has reasons I don't think they can be scum save for Dunnstral, I guess? My read here is the shakiest and it's more the fact that I just didn't like how unwnd reacted over the past in-game day.

[Briar]

But, I do have to question why it is that I think the only person townreading Infinity is unwnd. Like... scum cannot be bussing right now, can they?

[Briar]

Which, if they aren't bussing...

>_>

[Briar]

Not even going there.

[Briar]

@Infinity, if you want a more condensed version of my read on you: if you are town, you are not obvious town to me compared to Ana currently and you need to do... something, I don't know what, to really prove it. Because I'm not getting to that point right now with you.

[Briar]

GTH I think you hammer catboi. I just don't think that S_S fits with Ana (doesn't bus) and Infinity (pushed S_S more over catboi).

[Briar]

I also have a really dumb tinfoil regarding catboi finding out my identity and trying to nya at me or whatever to get social points. Yes this is a real thought my brain conjured up.

[Briar]

You believe what you want Ydra but the fact is that the whole game hates me should tell you either that I'm just a very popular guy or scum is just riding the trend

That's the roadblock that I have when it comes to you being scum right now. I don't get what the move is for scum if they're bussing at all. They can't win like that in a setup like this.

[Briar]

I wanna be RIGHT still. :< Call it a pride thing.

[Briar]

And I still don't want to freeze out Infinity.

I think I should have stuck to what I originally wanted to do this gamephase if I remained in the Keep (not interact with either of you and just solve outside) but it's too late for that.

[Briar]

You believe what you want Ydra but the fact is that the whole game hates me should tell you either that I'm just a very popular guy or scum is just riding the trend

That's the roadblock that I have when it comes to you being scum right now. I don't get what the move is for scum if they're bussing at all. They can't win like that in a setup like this.

Why did it even become consensus? D1 you had Ana who was dedicated in her solve and now D2 comes and I'm instantly scum for everyone

Even fucking lukewarm

I thought you were pretty towny D1, honestly. I think at this point though it's that there are other people that are either confirmed/close to confirmed and you sort of... didn't keep up, maybe? It's not like you're playing bad IMO, but this is a good table.

[Briar]

It's also just the nature of the setup I think, knowing that there's exactly 1 scum in each group means that you get sized up fast and compared to the other two talking with each other you feel like the odd one out.

[Briar]

I also have a really dumb tinfoil regarding catboi finding out my identity and trying to nya at me or whatever to get social points. Yes this is a real thought my brain conjured up.

Wait, what? I'm still catching on the pages between 50 and now that I missed

It's very dumb and I am embarrassed.

[Briar]

Prickly?

[Briar]

Frankly if it comes down to the Wall I would want you and Dunn to cross and let Luke figure it out.

[Briar]

I was too busy being cute in FL vs Hectic to recall anything from it.

[Briar]

unwnd, I think that... it might be easier honestly when we flip in the Keep, less people who are not believing you, maybe? I'm sorry because it feels like you're not having fun but this really isn't anything like, personal I hope you know. <3

It's just that, how the game played out left you in this place. If you're town please just keep on solving independently if you have to and ignore everything? Sorry.

[Briar]

I was too busy being cute in FL vs Hectic to recall anything from it.

oh

Hi.

[Briar]

(My tinfoil was that you were nya'ing at me knowing that I love that stuff and that you somehow figured out my identity somehow through a PT and thought it could help but that swiftly fell apart when it came to likelihood.)

[Briar]

unwnd, I think that... it might be easier honestly when we flip in the Keep, less people who are not believing you, maybe? I'm sorry because it feels like you're not having fun but this really isn't anything like, personal I hope you know. <3

It's just that, how the game played out left you in this place. If you're town please just keep on solving independently if you have to and ignore everything? Sorry.

I took a deep breath

You're right

You're doing great, regardless of alignment. Keep on going!!

[Briar]

Agh.

[Briar]

Unwnd I feel bad saying this because I know that you probably /are/ frustrated but it feels like you're reminding us of that a lot and I don't get it. >_> Like the feelings are real but you're doing stuff with it.

[Briar]

I was too busy being cute in FL vs Hectic to recall anything from it.

oh

Hi.

Well I'm flattered you think well of my scumplay from that game, but the fact is I still got faded on day 3 of that game. I think us being on the same team in that game has probably skewed your perspective of scumplay? Because honestly, I just pulled up my own ISO from that game and it's making me cringe. I was posting complete nonsense half the time just to make it seem like I was active.

I started a 10 page derail about anime just to fill the thread with fluff

. I really feel like I'm night and day different from that game, honestly.

In general I think you're a good player, honestly. And everyone was playing better mafia that game than I was; the game I played was something wholly different.

[Briar]

Everyone here is just too good and there's not an easy answer and it really agitates me

[Briar]

I dunno, maybe it's because that's a part of why I'm scumreading you right now and I'm sensitive to it, but it just feels like you keep saying that you're feeling that kind of way as if to... make yourself seem real? IDK. I think the frustration is real but it's not because you're frustrated town but scum in this position instead, and you're portraying it like town frustration.

p-edit: I think it's honest but I think you might be framing it a certain way.

[Briar]

If you wanna post walls, they'll be read, I promise.

[Briar]

Sidenote I really wanna run/play some geriatric games soon.

[Briar]

I think that works?

Currently I feel myself beginning to stagnate and I’ll try to avoid getting lazy and tunnel-y.

[Briar]

Also, hm.

I think we should try? To resolve the Gate first because there’s higher odds of hitting scum in there than the Wall, right? If absinthe feels confident enough at least I think we could just win like that.

[Briar]

(That assumes a Keep townpoint because I don’t forsee this one getting messed up.)

[Briar]

I see your point. :> I was just getting greedy for an insta-win.

[Briar]

VOTE: Briar

Same. I’ve said everything I think I want to. Sorry Ana, I think this helps everyone else to get us out first.

(Impatient town hammer not scum hammer.)

[Briar]

You were scum right?

[Briar]

ANA.