Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Child of Fairies]

VOTE: Prism

Prisms are lame, Pyramids are cooler.

[Child of Fairies]

UNVOTE: Prism

That was the shortest fight ever...

[Child of Fairies]

So, why am I being voted for for being one of like three people to joke about a guy declaring a 1v1 and then declaring v/la right after that?

[Child of Fairies]

Unvoting me, and not voting elsewhere, was a lot more interesting choice than either of the jokes you made.

Did something about my posting spur this?

It was very apparently a joke vote, and you haven't exactly done much that would warrant me keeping it on you, so I took it off.

It's so early in the game that everybody still reads neutral to me.

[Child of Fairies]

I can't help but get a feeling of superficiality from this 1v1. There's a sort of "going through the motions" aspect to it in a few posts that makes it feel odd to me. 231 and 233 in particular read to me like posts that are trying to say little while looking like they're saying more.

[Child of Fairies]

They are both direct answers to Hectic. 231 is a quick and concise recenter given the confusion of 229 and 233 is a direct answer to 232.

What parts are trying to say more, exactly?

It means that I am not able to defend myself from it other than by returning to the legitimacy of the read itself and mentioning that it would be a Scumsman recycle.

This reads to me "I can't defend myself because this has happened before", which is a very odd thing to say imo. Something like this doesn't really amount to anything but the language you use makes it look like there's more to it than there actually is.

It is safe to return to 159 unless you want to continue using "I thought the different BoI context points towards Hectic-scum" and "I think the difference points to it not mattering" as a primary point of contention for my read rather than as something extremely secondary. I will gladly concede speculation that I am scumreading you as in instrument to be townread.

The last line of this bothers me. It makes it seem like you don't truly believe what you're saying and are just trying to appear like you're doing something. On the other hand, no scum would ever make an apparent slip-up like this, but that's very much going into wifom territory so I'd like you to elaborate a bit more, please.

[Child of Fairies]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

Curious about the T3 read. I've never played before, so his (and Johnny's) style of "I'm just going to jump in and vote from time to time without explanation" doesn't really read town to me at face value.

I agree with the rest of your reads, though.

[Child of Fairies]

Child, you aren't voting and don't appear to have any scumreads other than the ambiguous conclusion about myself and Hectic. Can you walk us through your thinking here?

I don't like to vote early in the day to try and reduce the chance of a wagon from getting out of control quickly. A lot of this day has also been revolving around meta reads, which I can't really give input on as I've never played with any of you before. So I've been trying to just read and learn how everybody acts before I commit to a sound read in any direction.

As for you vs Hectic specifically, I felt like you were doing it mostly for the sake of appearing to be doing something, which I pointed out back then. I didn't vote because there was this feeling that even though it didn't necessarily read town to me, it felt like such a small thing that I wanted to wait and see how you acted outside of the 1v1 before I threw a vote around. Outside of the 1v1, your efforts feel a lot more genuine, so I've kept it on the backburner for now.

Hectic's more emotional response felt more genuine and more invested in the 1v1. This could go either way but between the two of you if it really is TvS I would say he's the town. Outside of your response to the 1v1 I don't have much reason to scumread either of you so I'm inclined to believe TvT for now, though.

T3 and Johnny both feel less towny to me due to their "I'm just going to hop in, vote, and leave" gameplans but most people are townreading T3 and he might always be like this and Johnny's v/la and that might be impacting it so /shrug

[Child of Fairies]

I'm not opposed to the Johnny vote, but I'm not very optimistic at the moment.

VOTE: Johnny

This is E-1.

I feel comfortable voting here without sorting Hectic, though a part of me is regretful that Johnny is on V/LA.

Not that I really disagree with a Johnny vote, but what changed you from being "not very optimistic" to feeling comfortable in one page, especially given that it's been less than a day and Johnny hasn't said a thing since?

Wouldn't be opposed to hammering the slot once Johnny gets a defense in if said defense isn't satisfactory, but if anybody hammers before he gets to post again I'd be very suspicious of that player.

[Child of Fairies]

@Fairy Child:

Are you can alt? If so, what's your level of experience on-site on the following tier list:

Never lied in your life
Fresh noob straight from Town of Salem
New to mafiascum
Couple of games on a 5 year old account
Alt of a regular user
Banned user
RadiantCowbells alt

"Couple of games on a 5 year old account" is pretty accurate. I had an account here that I used for less than a year in 2018-2019, and I have some offsite experience from before that, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly experienced and this is my first mafia game in about 2 and a half years.

[Child of Fairies]

I don't think Hectic understands what scum Prism is like or what she plays for. Letting him townread me for the wrong reasons is inviting trouble later down the line if he is town.

I don't really want to get more explicit with detailing how I would hypothetically play this as scum.

It's only really a problem for town!Hectic if you aren't town, though? If you really are both town you wouldn't do this.

I think when interacting with Hectic specifically you've done a fair amount of things that ping people's radars in a "there's no way scum would do this, it's too obvious" way, and I'd like you to clear up that confusion now. You keep suggesting it's obvious and that we should all be seeing it, but that sounds less like a response and more like a deflection to me.

I'm not going to vote you yet as I want to avoid a possible quickhammer situation, but I am considering it.

[Child of Fairies]

This is actually incredibly annoying and I want it over with.

Hectic is wondering if a scum Prism tried, and failed, to get townread with the push on Hectic early, only to salvage it with the town posts about backing off and thinking about the rest of the game. I am suggesting to Hectic that he has it flipped: that getting scumread initially only to be townread for the backoff would have been the point from the start, and linked a game where I planned several similar sequences days or weeks in advance.

If you think this is absurd, then okay.

I'm sorry for any frustration I may have caused, and that maybe my brain's just being dumb here, but are you suggesting to Hectic that you're playing a similar game to your last scumgame? Because that game you linked for similarity is a scumgame. I can't tell if you're suggesting that you're playing the same and thus Hectic shouldn't townread you for this or you're playing different and that he should townread you for this.

I still feel like this line is something town wouldn't really do, though, and while you could probably argue that scum wouldn't either given how it's turned out, but I feel like scum has more reason to try this given the amount of confusion it's created, so...

VOTE: Prism

If I'm wrong and just bad at reading I will unvote, but this feels fine right now.

[Child of Fairies]

I mean, it's been a pretty weird day for wagons since one of the two main wagons just isn't here to defend himself, so it's not like there's much that can really be done with anybody that's not Prism right now. I'm probably overdue for a reads list, though, so here:

Lukewarm - Likely Town. Once the meat of the game started I feel like his conclusions have been rational mostly, and it doesn't feel like there's any ulterior motives behind what he's saying. Interactions with and about T3 take up a surprising amount of his early posts, and it's interesting to see his read on T3 develop as he acknowledges that he's paranoid about it. I don't see anything at all in him that would make me think he's scum.

Infinity 234 - Likely Town. Same deal as Lukewarm, I feel like her conclusions have been mostly genuine and lacking in a feeling that she's got an ulterior motive to her. Her reaction to Prism blowing up at her also feels more towny than not to me, although I'm having trouble explaining why.

Hectic - Town Lean. This is an interesting slot because most of Hectic's content has been dealing with specifically Prism, so a lot of my read on the slot is dependant on Prism. I think if Prism flips scum Hectic's town, and given my thoughts on Prism I'd be inclined to give this a town lean.

Ydrasse - Null/Town Lean? A fair amount of her posts feel toneless to me, but when she makes posts with more than one line in them they feel sorta towny to me, as though she's actually trying to solve instead of looking like she is. Maybe there's a world where ydra/prism are both scum but that would largely depend on Prism flipping scum so it's not really much to talk about here.

Fidget - Could honestly go either way? This is an interesting one. I find a lot of Fidget's posts fairly towny but the conclusions she comes to in some of them feel less than genuine, such as voting Prism for her 1v1 with Hectic and then later asking if it felt "Obviously TvT" to anybody else. Her sorta-tunnel on Lukewarm is pretty interesting since it's an angle nobody else seems to have, but it could be coming from either alignment for different reasons so she's pretty null for me.

T3/Johnny - Scumlean both for similar reasons, high vote count to low content ratio. There's very little in T3's iso that isn't just a vote or an agreement with whatever the page consensus is, which also leads to a fair amount of flipflopping ("I don't totally get the case on Prism > my top 3 scum are Johnny Child Prism > My gut is telling me Prism is town" in 3 posts in a row in his iso is certainly something). T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

same with Johnny to a lesser degree because he's pretty much not here right now and I'd rather wait for him to come back or the slot to be force replaced so we can properly sort him rather than quickelimming, which helps nobody but scum as it denies town any sort of possible information. There just isn't really much of anything to say about him until he comes back, so here we are.

Prism - Scumlean. This isn't meant to be a post about Prism so I'll keep it short but aside from what I've already said I think the threat to self-hammer, followed by bringing up a game where she did self-hammer as town to clear herself, and then following that by saying she won't self-hammer here makes me feel like she's got a role that can't and she's just trying to bluff to take the heat off of her.

[Child of Fairies]

Ydra, if you're not looking to vote either Prism or Hectic today, what's your take on their 1v1 and Prism's continued tunnel into him?

[Child of Fairies]

Wrt child the fact that she's looking at your tone in the shorter post vs the longer posts closely enough to notice that they feel different stands out to me

That sounds like a good indicator of reading intently. Not entirely town exclusive but a good point for them sure.

child's read on me didn't really feel like it was something someone would have to dig into much, because to me it boils down to "when post actual thoughts, feels towny." i don't get an aura of solving and i'm a bit put off by child calling things interesting and like... eh. that's about how i feel about it. like, i guess i feel like child is a bit townier after it but it's just because they shared some thoughts about things which is like, at least they're thinking about this game and playing it a bit but it didn't move me to the point where i felt like they were actively solving, or engaging much. just some reads put out and then that's it.

In contrast that doesn't sound very deep. Maybe I read that post fully now and see.

Ydrasse - Null/Town Lean? A fair amount of her posts feel toneless to me, but when she makes posts with more than one line in them they feel sorta towny to me, as though she's actually trying to solve instead of looking like she is. Maybe there's a world where ydra/prism are both scum but that would largely depend on Prism flipping scum so it's not really much to talk about here.

It more or less sounds like "When Ydrasse puts the effort in, she sounds like she is genuinely solving". Which is a read yes! But I would like to know more of why Child thinks she is actually solving over trying to look like she is.

Looking at this, Child's townreads pretty much all say "Seems to lack an ulterior motive". Which, is a fair reason to townread someone sure, although it's also a little bland when unsubstantiated. It kind of looks like a readslist that I could fake probably decently easily (or produce as town, certainly). The townreads all share the "lacks motive" reason and then add one interesting point about the person's play that seems interesting.

The nulls on Ydrasse/I don't say much other than we're towny sometimes. Actually one of them seems interesting, and I'm more curious about it:

Fidget - Could honestly go either way? This is an interesting one. I find a lot of Fidget's posts fairly towny but the conclusions she comes to in some of them feel less than genuine, such as voting Prism for her 1v1 with Hectic and then later asking if it felt "Obviously TvT" to anybody else. Her sorta-tunnel on Lukewarm is pretty interesting since it's an angle nobody else seems to have, but it could be coming from either alignment for different reasons so she's pretty null for me.

What about voting Prism and asking if the interaction felt "obviously TvT" to anyone seems.. disingenuous to you? I ask because this is seems like a unique possibly genuine thought but I am unclear on what you mean.

Also as an aside, what tunnel on Lukewarm are you talking about?

re: Ydra, in her longer posts she makes a pretty legitimate effort to talk her thoughts out, explain where she's at, and engage with the thread from multiple viewpoints. She sticks to her points when questioned, but not in a confrontational way that makes me think she's saying them in an expectation to be challenged and work it out as opposed to trying to control the narrative towards or away from people.

As an aside, I kinda want to bring up 526 and 531. 526 and the buildup to it feel like a a genuine push on me, making a genuine effort to engage with infinity and prism to see where they're at and debate about me, but then 531 recontextualises it as a sort-of vanity vote because she /wants/ to be right but admits she doesn't really have much?

As for the aside, maybe "tunnel" wasn't entirely the right word. I was referring to how you were the only player who didn't seem to fully tr lukewarm right off the bat and instead made an effort to push him and engage with him about things. In my head this could come from either town (wants to properly sort a slot everyone else has written as town to avoid town being played) or scum (wants to create some confusion on a slot that people are tring), so I wrote it off as interesting, but not alignment indicative on its own.

T3/Johnny - Scumlean both for similar reasons, high vote count to low content ratio. There's very little in T3's iso that isn't just a vote or an agreement with whatever the page consensus is, which also leads to a fair amount of flipflopping ("I don't totally get the case on Prism > my top 3 scum are Johnny Child Prism > My gut is telling me Prism is town" in 3 posts in a row in his iso is certainly something). T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

same with Johnny to a lesser degree because he's pretty much not here right now and I'd rather wait for him to come back or the slot to be force replaced so we can properly sort him rather than quickelimming, which helps nobody but scum as it denies town any sort of possible information. There just isn't really much of anything to say about him until he comes back, so here we are.

Prism - Scumlean. This isn't meant to be a post about Prism so I'll keep it short but aside from what I've already said I think the threat to self-hammer, followed by bringing up a game where she did self-hammer as town to clear herself, and then following that by saying she won't self-hammer here makes me feel like she's got a role that can't and she's just trying to bluff to take the heat off of her.

Oh, to conclude, I feel that reading "Votes often and has a low amount of content" as "opportunistic" is a bit underwhelming. Although we can talk about it. I don't think T3's obvious inconsistency with regards to the "I don't totally get the case on Prism > my top 3 scum are Johnny Child Prism > My gut is telling me Prism is town" is scum indicative at all. If you want to call it opportunistic, you've got to establish the scum motivation for making those posts.

I'm not so sure there is one, but you know town can be wildly inconsistent. Calling it "opportunistic" and calling it a day feels like a disservice.

Johnny I pretty much agree though. Not enough.

Not so sure on the Prism logic, I guess I'm not familiar with that part of the game enough though. I feel like that's likely a pretty small portion of her play to get your strongest scumread off of, though.

I think for T3 being opportunistic, looking at his iso in the context of the game and where each post is, to me a majority of his contribution to the game has been coming in, jumping on whichever not-Prism wagon has the most steam behind it, and stating something somebody else stated recently. His most original line of thinking would be saying Prism isn't scum when her wagon was near its highest, but even then that came after Ydra had already stepped in and Infinity unvoted. In context a lot of his iso reads to me like him throwing votes at whoever's got momentum to see what sticks, hence opportunistic. He's not doing anything to sort, just advance wagons on people whenever he can.

As for the three posts I highlighted earlier, it's important to note they were all within 10 posts of eachother. He posts to be nay-Prism elim, and then his very next post has him put her in his top 3 scum anyways. When he's called out on this, he backpedals the second statement with no explanation and only when it came up again later did he respond and actually try to explain himself. I'd argue T3's most recent post is the most we've gotten out of him at all in terms of thoughts on the game, and even then it's a single sentence.

And as for Prism, I quite literally say in the post you're quoting that I'm going to keep it short because it's not a post about Prism, and I even directly say "aside from what I've already said" at the start. I'd already made various posts on Prism and why I found her actions scummy and didn't feel the need to reiterate myself, so I only added what had happened since my most recent post about Prism, which was mostly her tilting and threatening to self-hammer.

[Child of Fairies]

Well, I read everything. All of Lukewarm, Fidget, Prism, Infinity, Ydrasse, Child are towny which is an interesting conundrum. There's even reason to think T3 is towny for the lack of care for progression and swinging his vote around and likely following his gut. Of those, I think Child is most likely to he scum for the way he was aggressively scumreading Prism, almost trying to appear as strong on the push, perhaps because he would think it looks towny, it read a little over the top, yet only listing Prism as a scumlean in his eventual readslist.

Lukewarm did a similar thing but it felt a lot more genuine, not sure why, probably because he fleshed out the reasons in which Prism could be manipulating using the self-hammer shenanigans. In fact, Fairy Child's eventual reason to scumleam Prism does borrow directly from Lukewarm's reasoning, although I'll check this after posting (on my phone)

Johnny's inactivity seems to be site wide but the easy TvT stance is probably a scummy enough thing to vote for this game

Alright, I have a scumread now and feel much better

There's a difference between "least towny townread" and "Scumread". What changed in four posts? Especially since you supposedly read all of the posts in the thread, said this, and

then

decided you were going to scumread me later.

I didn't only have Prism as a scumlean in that post, too. I also had T3 and Johnny, the former of which you actually acknowledged in a later post meaning you'd seen it and chosen to ignore it or hadn't actually read yet.

I probably should've made the Prism part a bit more clear since both you and Fidget have now done the same thing, but that wasn't an "eventual" reason to be sring Prism, it was an "additional" reason after most of my other posts had been related to Prism. I pointed this out to fidget later, which you proceeded to acknowledge, but it was only meant to cover what had happened since my last Prism-related post because it was supposed to be a post about the rest of the cast.

Also, I can't be "aggressively pushing Prism" the whole time and just following up on something Lukewarm had said later to form my sr on her. Those are conflicting statements, as they establish two different timelines for me doing the same thing.

This is actually incredibly annoying and I want it over with.

Hectic is wondering if a scum Prism tried, and failed, to get townread with the push on Hectic early, only to salvage it with the town posts about backing off and thinking about the rest of the game. I am suggesting to Hectic that he has it flipped: that getting scumread initially only to be townread for the backoff would have been the point from the start, and linked a game where I planned several similar sequences days or weeks in advance.

If you think this is absurd, then okay.

I'm sorry for any frustration I may have caused, and that maybe my brain's just being dumb here, but are you suggesting to Hectic that you're playing a similar game to your last scumgame? Because that game you linked for similarity is a scumgame. I can't tell if you're suggesting that you're playing the same and thus Hectic shouldn't townread you for this or you're playing different and that he should townread you for this.

I still feel like this line is something town wouldn't really do, though, and while you could probably argue that scum wouldn't either given how it's turned out, but I feel like scum has more reason to try this given the amount of confusion it's created, so...

VOTE: Prism

If I'm wrong and just bad at reading I will unvote, but this feels fine right now.

Hmhmhm, is this reasoning genuine... I think there's a lot more reason for scum not to do what Prism did than town, scum probably don't care about the incorrect reasoning, but there's reason for town to worry that it could come back to bite them down the line if the other party sees that, as Prism explains. I particularly don't like the "confusion created" line though, it's silly to assume Prism would post it to cause "confusion" in the thread

The whole "confusion created" thing was in reference to Prism supposedly acting scummy on purpose to bait you, only for Infinity and I to notice it instead and jump on her. Rather than actually clear this up right away, she decides that it's our fault for noticing the scummy thing and drags out the engagement for much longer than it needed to go on. What reason would Town have to not clear that up as soon as it became a problem?

Not really a fan of Fairy Child's readlist either

Dislike how he randomly throws in the possibility of a Ydrasse/Prism scumteam, yet doesn't comment on why he would think this could be the case

Dislike how he says it's "interesting" that Fidget dislikes Lukewarm which is an unpopular opinion, yet fails to ascertain anything alignment indicative from it

Dislike the reasoning on Prism since the plan stated there doesn't really make sense? For scum!Prism to say she won't self-hammer herself is going against the whole point of linking a game where she did it as town in the first place, particularly when Infinity had unvoted due to it. Makes more sense if she says she won't while on L-1 since the question of why she isn't doing it while in that state might come up, but to do so after Infinity unvotes and puts her on L-2 invites her to revote and dispels trying to scare people from voting her by linking the game in the first place. That took a while to articulate but not sure what Fairy sees about this being a scum-motivated plan, seems surface level scummy to take this take

There isn't really any point in trying to make a scumteam on day 1 when nobody's flipped, is there? If Prism were to flip scum I could maybe see a world where Ydra's her partner and came in to try and bail her out, but that theory's extremely reliant on seeing one of them flip first so it's not worth bringing up much until one of them does?

I did point it out later, but I could see either side having a motivation to push on Lukewarm a little bit, either for genuine sorting reasons or to try and sew distrust in a widely townread slot. So it's NAI to me on its own and Fidget's iso wasn't conclusively one way or the other for me to draw a real conclusion from the rest of her posts.

I'm going to turn the Prism part back around on you here: If Prism has a history of self-hammering to mechanically clear herself, if she were town why would she threaten to do it in this setup instead of actually doing it? I read it as a threat like "I've done this before so watch out, take your vote off or I'll self-hammer" but her going back on it later made me feel like she was lying, and possibly had a role that couldn't come back after a hammer.

T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

Lastly, I don't like this part. following everyone else's opinion rather than starting the push or trying to talk to others about it, this is also the second time this has been said, but he hasn't cared to ask talk more about it or ask Lukewarm about him who seems to have meta on him. I think this fits well into scum seeing something town is doing as scummy, and wanting to point that out, but being afraid to go beyond due to the consensus opinion not matching it

Like I said, T3 is everybody's backburner read. People seem to just have him as a "well, if getting rid of these people doesn't end the game, then T3", so I've been putting it as a low priority, "we'll get there eventually" sort of thing and just focussing on other players right now. I did talk about T3 with Fidget afterwards, and we both explained our prespectives on T3 there, during with T3 posted a single sentence. So it's the combination of T3 being people's backburner things and the huge amount of energy it would take to get anything worthwhile out of T3 makes me okay with just leaving him until everybody's ready to take him off the backburner and actually do something.

I'm not really sold on this scumread of yours. It feels less like a real scumread and more like you going "wait, I need a scumread that's not Johnny" so you picked me to try and stretch into one. A lot of your things you bring up are things I explained later to Fidget or outright contradictory with eachother, like saying I was aggressively pushing Prism but also saying I only came in after Lukewarm made a point? I'm also not really sure how you ended up posting saying you'd read everything, then your next five or so posts all made it seem like you were reading my posts for the first time.

[Child of Fairies]

I swear I don't intend to wall, it just kind of happens

[Child of Fairies]

Okay, it looks like there's been some sort of miscommunication here.

When I was referring to you dragging out the engagement, I was referring specifically to your second attempt to bait hectic and the ensuing fallout with Infinity and I catching it. There you did try to avoid for a bit until you ultimately blew up at Infinity over it, then explained what you were doing and blamed her and myself for it not working. That's the interaction I keep coming back to with you. Everything else past that has been difficult to parse comparatively, especially because I really don't feel like being yelled at just for trying to play.

And you may have planted it there for Hectic, but there's seven other people in the game who are all reading and engaging and trying to solve as well. Your response to somebody else catching this thing you left there was to be incredibly rude and insulting to Infinity and I because we weren't puppets for you and had thoughts on the game and made an effort to actually post them. Especially Infinity, as she was the one who took the brunt of it at the time. So excuse me for not wanting to interact with you when your response to being challenged on something this game has been to get legitimately angry over it. You did it later with Ydra as well, although you did at least recognize it after the fact.

And for the selfhammer, I was working under the idea that you were upset enough to get what you wanted (an unvote) and then just keep going out of tilt, as you seemed genuinely angry and may not have been able to stop yourself. I didn't want to bring it up with you and make you angry, so I just let it go. Maybe that's on me for not wanting to poke the proverbial bear here.

[Child of Fairies]

As for the aside, maybe "tunnel" wasn't entirely the right word. I was referring to how you were the only player who didn't seem to fully tr lukewarm right off the bat and instead made an effort to push him and engage with him about things. In my head this could come from either town (wants to properly sort a slot everyone else has written as town to avoid town being played) or scum (wants to create some confusion on a slot that people are tring), so I wrote it off as interesting, but not alignment indicative on its own.

While catching up, I read hectic's comments on this, and it reminded me of something I wanted to mention.

Child, if fidget's questions directed at me were enough for you to comment on, what did you think of hectic voting and pushing me at one point? I feel like hectic's push on me was much stronger then anything Fidget did, so I am interested why Fidget's stood out, but you did not mention Hectic's

Hectic's didn't really ping me as much since I read it as a genuine misunderstanding on his part. He trs you for a bit, the 1v1 happens, and then he has you in his scumreads without any explanation for a bit after. When asked, he says it was because of a gap in posting and something related to you Tring T3 and lampshading your own paranoia about it. The entire thing was dropped after a combined ~8 posts from both of you, and Hectic moved on. In fact, in literally the same page the two of you are debating it he makes a readlist with you as his 3rd from the top tr.

I just kind of read it as "hey Lukewarm why'd you leave and why are you paranoid about t3" > "I wasn't the only one who left and the t3 thing was a meta joke" > "gotcha", compared to Fidget having a more substantial discussion with you about it, which stood out to me more.

[Child of Fairies]

I am happy to see the acknowledgement of my points; I think your clarification of what is meant by "confusion" is very helpful, and there the blame falls squarely on me. I thought you were saying the confusion was

intentional

on my end, as opposed to me playing poorly regardless of alignment. I accept the latter. I also accept the argument that I wouldn't really be able to restrain myself as town.

I will accept the criticism for how I responded to Infinity, and take ownership of making you feel as though I don't respect the other players or the space in the game. I am human and got frustrated with Infinity and yourself, even as I decided to explain something I did not want to for both of your sakes. I can be very demanding and harsh when it comes to challenging players to meet my own subjective standard of play. Finally, my enthusiasm is a double-edged sword that leads to me posting too often and taking up too much space. I try to counterbalance this with posts like 494 and 498, encouraging you to branch out in a way that was for all of our benefit, but I recognize behavior does not cancel out. I have been harsh this game, and while this wasn't included in your wall I think 247 was unacceptably mean as an example.

As a final note, this conversation prompted by ignoring the more respectful ask in 505:

To be more specific: Are you saying that I would be unable to restrain myself from selfhammering as town, or that I would not

want

to restrain myself to begin with?

I take up too much space and can be a real jerk, but I don't think I've ignored a single question posed to me. I typed those paragraphs explaining my point as much for your sake as for mine. I hope we all can do the same for each other. Ignoring my point over just respectfully rejecting it and calling it a day was clearly counterproductive. Now that we're on the same page, I hope you can be more forthcoming with your actual reasoning moving forward, and I will keep striving to be better on my end both by posting less and treating the other players with more respect.

I'll definitely shoulder blame for letting this drag out as long as I did. That's completely on me and my confrontation skills. I should've answered your first question when you asked it, and I'm sorry that I didn't do so. I'll do my best to answer more openly in the future, now that this has been cleared up.

UNVOTE:

I'm going to go reread Prism's iso, I want to make sure my later interpretations weren't just emotionally driven.

[Child of Fairies]

V/LA Until the 15th

[Child of Fairies]

Hey everybody, I just want to let you guys know that I'll be replacing out. I've been sick for the better part of a week now and don't have it in me to continue. It's been fun, and I hope I see you guys in future games.