Open 822: Popcorn Mafia - Game Over!!

[Vulture]

Hey.

[Vulture]

Hey.

Hello.

What's up?

[Vulture]

I am the Vulture.

[Vulture]

Hey.

Hello.

What's up?

Nothing much, just waiting for u to yourself as scum

Keep waiting for me to myself. *Pat pat.*

[Vulture]

VOTE: Vulture

Odd landing.

What did you find odd about it?

[Vulture]

VOTE: Vulture

Odd landing.

What did you find odd about it?

"Hello."

"What's up?"

First page maybe, but five pages in, seems weird.

What about it is weird?

[Vulture]

VOTE: Vulture

Odd landing.

What did you find odd about it?

"Hello."

"What's up?"

First page maybe, but five pages in, seems weird.

What about it is weird?

Convince me not to shoot you in your next post or you die

[Vulture]

Sycophantism?

[Vulture]

Art's right, though.

[Vulture]

149 is trying to buddy-buddy with the person with power.

[Vulture]

I think the fact that they're joking makes them more of an issue, tbh.

[Vulture]

I think the fact that they're joking makes them more of an issue, tbh.

Why?

Meh.

If I was trying to get in good with the person with a gun I'd try to be funny about it rather than directing them to do XYZ.

I also think Luke would do it like this as well, specifically.

[Vulture]

I was serious when I said that I think that Not_Mafia is a good scum hunter. I have played several games with him, and his reads have been very accurate. But a lot of people like to ignore his reads because of his play style.

After the game aliensitter, where not_mafia had the entire scum team pegged day 1, and town still lost because people did not listen to him, I decided that I should start vocalizing his read accuracy in every game that we have together.

Which, I have.

See, these posts gross me out, even if it's a reply to my criticism.

[Vulture]

The whole set of interactions about Art's interactions are super ?? We have me(partially) and T3 defending luke and not agreeing with art's sr, and on the other hand we have Vulture apparently being to read Art's mind and intention for the SR? Makes no sense. Art/Vulture seems too level 1, but so does T3/Luke soo. Fwiw, I do think one of these pairs CAN exist, but not just because of these 2 posts

It's pretty obvious that Art thinks the same thing that I did in 150.

[Vulture]

I metadived Vulture and looked at his games. Town Vulture usually posts scummy and devoid of content sounding one-liners but will occasionally interject with a longer post that has content. This seems to be the same a Vulture this game. This read holds less merit for 2 reasons.
1. He's an alt.
2. He doesn't have a scumgame on this account.
If I'm right about who he is then I've played with him a bit on his other alts but I don't think it matters because the play doesn't match up.

So, I think you put me in the alt category early on, and I forgot to ask:

You've played games with me before on this account, two I believe. Why do you need to metadive me when you have experience with me?

[Vulture]

I metadived Vulture and looked at his games. Town Vulture usually posts scummy and devoid of content sounding one-liners but will occasionally interject with a longer post that has content. This seems to be the same a Vulture this game. This read holds less merit for 2 reasons.
1. He's an alt.
2. He doesn't have a scumgame on this account.
If I'm right about who he is then I've played with him a bit on his other alts but I don't think it matters because the play doesn't match up.

So, I think you put me in the alt category early on, and I forgot to ask:

You've played games with me before on this account, two I believe. Why do you need to metadive me when you have experience with me?

I forgot how you played.

In less than a week?

[Vulture]

Well Vulture is expressing a mindmeld with Art which is kinda wtf
I agree that Art/Vulture seems too level 1 but with the mindmeld thing Art!scum strongly implies Vulture!scum but not the other way around. I have my independent reasons for scumreading Art so this very strongly implies Vulture!scum. I know I said I townread Vulture but as noted, the reasonscan be bad/invalid.

Is it WTF because you disagree or because I expressed that I agree with a point that I had already made before Art.

[Vulture]

Are you comparing it to any of her other games?

[Vulture]

Take a look at her ISO this game and tell me what you think?

It's 10 posts, so it's short.

[Vulture]

Marci seems /slightly/ more at ease, in comparison to Tarot. Her tone is similar but the content itself is more about the game than there.

[Vulture]

Alright nvm im confused. Marci rolled scum in newbie 2061 and i actually like the tone of her early posts there. wtf, w/e im not putting too much stock into meta so

VOTE: Marci

<consider this a SR for now>

And what is the basis for your scumread after the last few posts?

[Vulture]

Alright nvm im confused. Marci rolled scum in newbie 2061 and i actually like the tone of her early posts there. wtf, w/e im not putting too much stock into meta so

VOTE: Marci

<consider this a SR for now>

And what is the basis for your scumread after the last few posts?

Most of Marcis posts

Spoiler:

Players in order of readability:

Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar

offended, u just broke my heart

Just remember that he hard town read you in our last game

TRULY
im just multi talented

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

I hard townread you because I missed a post where you scumclaimed.

sir i never scumclaim (please say sike my confidence needs it )

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

Yeah, the "last time I saw you post that exact gif" was in our first game together lol

ahh, dw i can post it in every game from here on if u want

luke r u scum

Marci could be scum for that gif alone; I'm gonna have nightmares.

only scum hate twerking alien

I dont like any of these quotes since they are either observations or filler. As for the whole sr based on tone, 129 and 141 stand out to me the most. The posts of marci's I didnt include are Marci just agreeing with everything Art said about luke which tbh I dont like either.

...so what about the content that she has posted, even if it is sparse. Do you agree/disagree with it?

[Vulture]

Okay then, if I was not_Mafia at the moment, and I was purposefully targetting someone I trusted with the gun, I would shoot either art or me (hubris, I know)

If I was shooting mainly for scum, I would shoot hockey or marci (I am sorry marci, but I can't let you keep doing this)

So, do you think Hockey is bussing Marci?

[Vulture]

What a strange response.

[Vulture]

No one is asking you to take them off of your shoot list. I was just asking if you thought, then, that Hockey was bussing Marci.

[Vulture]

(T3 isn't gonna have a good answer for you, Galron, because he's scum.)

[Vulture]

It really boils down to.

"Secret tell."
"Newbtown!"
"Ok wolf."

Etc etc. Basic level substance to the people he defends and pushes.

[Vulture]

Hockey is screaming newbtown and Art should know better than this.
VOTE: art

Newbies being all over the place and having complex thoughts like that is very strongly town indicative.

For example. ^

Decides that he is going to defend Hockey because complex thoughts (when 177 isn't complex and there are other things you could say about it if you feasibly wanted to townread it, like the fact that Hockey mentally went "I am agreeing with T3 on Luke... but T3/Luke is a pairing" not even bothering to present himself as town because he knows it; complex is a buzzword meant to sound like you're reading into things when you're not) and thus, because Art does not agree, goes after Art without trying to engage beyond "you know better".

Everything's shallow from T3. Not-complex, if you want.

[Vulture]

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

Have you actually said anything about Art this game other than asking if he was an alt?

[Vulture]

Hum.

[Vulture]

Posts like 346 make me question if I'm wrong.

[Vulture]

Alright nvm im confused. Marci rolled scum in newbie 2061 and i actually like the tone of her early posts there. wtf, w/e im not putting too much stock into meta so

VOTE: Marci

<consider this a SR for now>

And what is the basis for your scumread after the last few posts?

Most of Marcis posts

Spoiler:

Players in order of readability:

Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar

offended, u just broke my heart

Just remember that he hard town read you in our last game

TRULY
im just multi talented

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

I hard townread you because I missed a post where you scumclaimed.

sir i never scumclaim (please say sike my confidence needs it )

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

Yeah, the "last time I saw you post that exact gif" was in our first game together lol

ahh, dw i can post it in every game from here on if u want

luke r u scum

Marci could be scum for that gif alone; I'm gonna have nightmares.

only scum hate twerking alien

I dont like any of these quotes since they are either observations or filler. As for the whole sr based on tone, 129 and 141 stand out to me the most. The posts of marci's I didnt include are Marci just agreeing with everything Art said about luke which tbh I dont like either.

...so what about the content that she has posted, even if it is sparse. Do you agree/disagree with it?

Ok so the other /content/ that wasnt mentioned here that marci has posted is 110,181 and 188.

110- Not reading much into this as its ehr first post. A bunch of one liners that arent really alligment-indictivae. Its intresting tho that she was hunting for Luke partners right off the bat to set up possible misshots later?

181- They just sheeped Art's read on Luke here, and I dont really like that.

188- She said in 181 that she likes Art's point just to say in 188 she disagrees with it? sounds kinda wack. Also more of the lazy sheeping of Art's read on Luke

Coming to think of it, most of marci's content posts(and even some of her non content posts) are directed towards Luke/her read on him which is ??? Could be possible partners just interacting with each other as much as possible to get everyone else to TR them, not sure tho

I completely agree with your points about those posts sounding scummy [110 looks like a joke though]. Are they actually AI in the long run? I don't know.
I think hold off on pushing marci or at least don't shoot her until I've formed a solid read on her.

If Marci is scum this post is the worst one beyond the meta read ones. >_>

[Vulture]

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

[Vulture]

FWIW, though, if it were any other player who were picked who had good reads I'd be like "yeah, scum would avoid them" but given that it's N_M I don't think that holds as much weight.

[Vulture]

Coming to think of it, most of marci's content posts(and even some of her non content posts) are directed towards Luke/her read on him which is ??? Could be possible partners just interacting with each other as much as possible to get everyone else to TR them, not sure tho

Just to put this out there. Marci and I are friends, and we coordinate joining games at the same time so we can play together.

So, I am suspicious of Marci, but the fact that she is interacting a bit more with me is not one of the reasons

I want to believe.

[Vulture]

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

T3's reads this game have felt very deliberate and showy, that's one of them

I'm not sure if town!T3 has big enough of an ego that he'd imply his read on marci is more important than the rest of the game's?

...I do think town!T3 would have that big of an ego but I also don't think he's town here anyways.

But yeah, he's been all flash and no substance all game.

Is that what that one Vulture with a hat/crown image was about? I couldn't make out that one.

[Vulture]

*Waves hands at whatever this is.*

[Vulture]

You lied to me.

[Vulture]

Who's Marci the scapegoat for?

[Vulture]

Lol.

[Vulture]

I know how this feeling.

For mafia overall.

I don't think she is competent with gun, no offense.
And she also have notstandart game for which she get scumreaded, but actually i don't think mafia would act so outrageous.

I really think, she obvious for try to force her as shot target, because she is easy gain suspiciouns and can quickly lose game via random.

She is simple easy target.

Okay, so, who do you think are the scum scapegoating her if you think she's town?

You're spending time defending her but not offering the alternatives.

[Vulture]

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

T3's reads this game have felt very deliberate and showy, that's one of them

I'm not sure if town!T3 has big enough of an ego that he'd imply his read on marci is more important than the rest of the game's?

marci
is
only
readable
by
meta

the end.

I was going to leave this with lol but this is provably wrong from the game alone that I linked regarding Marci earlier so...?

[Vulture]

T3, sorry if I don't put a ton of stock in your op marci meta tell

Spoiler:

I can usually read marci really well hold up

Using my OP marci tell I'm putting her at strong townread.

marcistar

,

Mafia Goon

, eliminated on Day 3

fine lol
marci is really really really indecisive as scum and never vibereads anyone.

You are so incredibly wrong.

Or lying, but, you know.

[Vulture]

@Marci, why not ask me to clarify if my thoughts are so unreadable. I've been saying things around you if not directly about you, and there's been times for you to better engage me if you wanted.

I think my current suspicions and how they're shifting are clear even after the gradient readspost.

[Vulture]

Like if you're town you have everyone gunning for you right now.

If the shot on you goes through and then you shoot and you're wrong, it's over. There doesn't seem to be a sense of urgency to figure out what to do or to find alternatives or much of anything.

[Vulture]

^ Which is why it's like... okay, when you scumread me without trying to actually talk to me or say "hey, could you elaborate more." What am I supposed to do.

[Vulture]

Vulture -

still a scumread xoxo
alot of their stuff seems a bit noncommittal, like yeah they put thoughts out there but its stuff that i feel like they could easily back out of if need be. alot of its making player x develop their reads on player y.
up until 371 (which is very recently i thinks)

i cant really tell what theyre thinking at all.

i think their posting style is very easy to make it

look

busy.

According to your own words you've spent most of this game not understanding my posts/what's on my mind. Why do you bring this up now when you're prodded for more insight on what your reads are.

You said earlier that you couldn't quite express why you thought I was scum but now you're saying this which is, imo, a simple concept that you could have put out there before.

[Vulture]

Both of them have some bad posts but I don’t think they’re scum together for how Enchant defended Marci?

It feels like a weird way to treat a scum partner to go “no they’re just bad someone is framing them” and then not saying who.

[Vulture]

I had them both as scum together but I think that’s dumb.

Probably Enchant but I wish Marci didn’t ignore my posts.

[Vulture]

I know how this feeling.

For mafia overall.

I don't think she is competent with gun, no offense.
And she also have notstandart game for which she get scumreaded, but actually i don't think mafia would act so outrageous.

I really think, she obvious for try to force her as shot target, because she is easy gain suspiciouns and can quickly lose game via random.

^ Calling her a scapegoat but not doing anything about it or finding the alternatives and the reasons for thinking she’s town are hollow and not really based in her gameplay. “Outrageous” feels like a filler word.

[Vulture]

Maybe Enchant just doesn’t think Marci would be like this as scum or something.

[Vulture]

The only thing that makes me go shrug emoji is Marci coming online yesterday and responding to something that’s more self-meta than me pointing out how she’s treated my slot is stupid.

[Vulture]

But I don’t think I’m gonna get a good answer from her tbh. Maybe I’m wrong.

[Vulture]

Ew.

[Vulture]

Err.

[Vulture]

viewtopic.php?p=12923397#p12923397

[Vulture]

Maybe I should have let that play out more. :/

[Vulture]

Toog, knowing that now though, what are your thoughts/was that what you were keeping secret?

[Vulture]

Don’t tempt me with what I have tried to let go.

Earlier on, it did feel more like Luke wanted to convince me that he was genuine about how he was treating N_M which I still think was weird given the fact that if he was town he should have bit back or wondered more “huh, wonder why they’re saying this.”

Maybe he wasn’t worried because I was the only person who was saying it and N_M had already threaten to shoot me so he could have felt “in.” Meh.

[Vulture]

235 is Luke’s first “solving” post.

There’s a lot of poking at people and saying things but it’s more about either being lighthearted or when I pushed at him, trying to convince me that I was interpreting him incorrectly. I don’t see why he isn’t with T3...

[Vulture]

hmmm, still dont like you hard clearing soemone on page 1

It is probably a bad reason to hard clear someone, but it does look like t3 logic

Does you saying its "t3 logic" mean that this is NAI for t3?

Yeah, T3 can use some pretty questionable logic to read people as both alignments

[Vulture]

T3, are you just town reading every slot?

I’m skimming but this sort of question doesn’t exclude them as partners imo.

[Vulture]

Ok then why are you suspicious of Marci?

i think arts townie, i like their point about luke

This really bothered me. Like I said, she just saw me make almost identical posts about not_mafia in our last game together (newbie 2072), but then I remembered that in our game before that she even commented on me saying something similar to/about not_mafia (micro 1010).

One of the big read flags for me in our last game, was that Marci seemed VERY hesitant to ever give me a town read. I think that scum!Marci worries about be getting thread control

Spoiler:

Here is actually, every time that marci gave an opinion on me day 1 in newbie 2072

Luke seems off

Lukewarm - null (? maybe a slight scum lean)

Lukewarm - I have no idea what to think about luke still

And this was like a thing that kept pinging me that game, but then I kept ignoring it. Well, not ignoring, but I kept being like, marci this is weird, why are you doing this? Marci, you know me better then this? ect, but then never actually scum read her for it, and then the game ended without me ever actually calling her scum for it.

So, when I saw that post this game, actually gonna treat it as a red flag

I wonder, could it be Marci if Luke is scum? T3 defending and Luke bussing with this because it’s what he can jump on but it’s not very damning either and can be backed up from.

Hum.

[Vulture]

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

I'm townreading t3 which makes me nervous and makes me think I should be scum reading him.

If I read Marci on this game alone I'd peg her as scummy, but Marci here does not feel like scum!Marci as I've seen her. I dunno if I'd shoot there.

Hockey I'm not sure about. Initial impression was scummy but if he's scum it's a pretty lazy effort.

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like. Gonna review d1 when I get back to my laptop.

This feels pretty meh in retrospect. I remember sympathizing with the 50/50 thing but the reasons are bad and also it fits.

[Vulture]

Could everyone give 3 or 4 players they think are scum, and why?

I'm suspicious of players who have voiced minimal or few scumreads, despite the fact there are FOUR scumazzers out and about from a town player's perspective. Players that fall under this category include T3, marcistar, Toogeloo, and probably others

It's probably pretty difficult for scum to voice many scumreads here, given they either have to choose in the limited pool of townies, or give scumreads on their buds

I'm still sitting in null on too many people: Toogelo, Vulture, Enchant.

I share your sentiment of suspicion and am therefore obliged to lean scum on these 3. From most to least scummy that'd be Toog -> Vulture -> Enchant, but that's based on not much and I want to hear more from them, hence my question on the previous page.

I have trouble reconciling my feelings on Marci and T3. T3 usually strikes me as scummy but feels towny, I think I'm gonna lean into that for now. I'm going with my gut to lean Marci into scum.

Hockey's play is weird but I like T3's read on it so I'm inclined to agree that Hockey feels town for now

I'm never gonna feel confident in a read on Luke, so he will probably spend most of the game in null for me but I have to put him as town for now, I don't think he's the move for today at any rate.

Then there's you (Hectic), who I think I'm towny on, but I'll have a better idea once I have some words from you to work with.

There I think I've done everybody, this is usually the point where people start scumreading me pretty hard.

I'd be disappointed if at least 2 of T3/marcistar/Pavowski weren't scum

We'd likely be in a good position if those 3 were the next 3 shots

Possibly a 5 town, 2 mafia situation

There very well could be 2 scum there, I'm less confident in my TR on T3 over time.

Sorry you didn't like my last 3 posts. Let me elaborate and clarify.

Toog is still in null and I could read them asking for the gun either way. I'm still leaning scum.

I didn't particularly feel I was playing defense against Hockey, moreso stating my philosophy.

And Marci, well, it looks like you agree with my conclusion on that slot if not my reasons, so I'll take it.

pavowski gib readlist

Ehhhhh.

Town-lean (no particular order)
Hectic
Luke
Hockey

Null-to-scumlean (descending order)
Vulture
Enchant
T3

Scum (would probably shoot today if I held the gun)
Toog
Marci


Now you.

[Vulture]

marci was interacting and bouncing off Luke too much for S-S imo. Like I think it'd be a lot harder to use Luke as a focal point for scum!marci if he was also scum, it's work and harder to make look natural

Their interactions also didn't really look like theatre to me

I disagree honestly; with friends you can use the dynamic that you naturally have from being friends to override the alignment issues.

I have an easier time seeing (assuming Luke + Pav) Marci fit over Enchant... also the way she talked to me earlier too. And then didn’t talk to me.

[Vulture]

Eh. I’ve seen some games where it was masked pretty well.

[Vulture]

Grumble grumble.

[Vulture]

I think the NM being picked thing doesn’t matter too much...

[Vulture]

For Marci, what I see is her being comfortable getting along with a friend who she can post with (if they’re scum together) without worrying a serious read might come from it vs her ignoring what I pointed out about her regarding me which wasn’t even a damning read but reasonable.

[Vulture]

Pav’s my weakest read but yeah.

[Vulture]

Toying around with the idea of both Enchant/Marci.

[Vulture]

>_>

Maybe I should stop trying to teamsolve for now.

[Vulture]

Yeah I just haven’t thought a lot about Pav so now I am going ??? because what if I was sus on both of those two and was right but then talked myself out. @:

[Vulture]

I’ll do Pav + Marci + Luke I guess.

[Vulture]

8AM me was smarter probably...

[Vulture]

The last part of that post is so fake. Lol.

[Vulture]

I haven’t been shading you all game though.

[Vulture]

So how is that shade if it has substance, and what about the parts where I thought you were town?

[Vulture]

Why are you framing it as shade? It’s expansive over everything in that iso of me but how is something like 277 shady when it’s a question for you...?

[Vulture]

It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).

[Vulture]

Lol.

[Vulture]

Prodded. Don’t feel great IRL, so motivation isn’t the best. Sorry, Marci.

I agree with what Hectic’s saying right now, have a few thoughts I’ll expand on whenever I have the energy to again.

[Vulture]

Hmm.

Might have been asked this before but Pav, what would you be doing as scum right now?

[Vulture]

Toogeloo's advice columns to marci have slightly rubbed me the wrong way, but I can't articulate why. Or maybe I'm just starting to think that because I think Pav may be town so someone needs to take his place as scum lol

(Energy levels still aren't back at full so don't expect too much here but I wanted to use this as a jumping board.)

I had the same thought while reading them and I think I know why: it feels like the advice Toog is giving to Marci, to shoot who she wants ultimately or a townread... still results in a townshot regardless of who she goes for? Like even saying "Oh, go back and read T3...", my assumptions of Marci are that she's going to go with her gut/'vibes' more than what she rereads over (no offense Marci, really is just what I gather from how you post).

Also, I disagree with the idea that scum are pushing their partners for cred. Why would they be pushing each other right now when they're close to winning and it's an easier path to just get some misshots versus cutting down their own numbers? Shrug emoji. Going off of this I then saw the 'oh I wanted the gun all game...' posting as WIFOM-y but I'm not 100% on Toog so shrug emoji again.

With Marci being town I am back to Enchant being scum which, given his recent posts, would actually mean he

did

TMI Marci town earlier and given his comments about Pav... he could be TMI'ing him town too. Which, hand wave at above.

--

I think that what Luke's doing right now is busywork and the interpretations of things (asking people "hey, what are your reads right now) are pretty barren of achieving anything; I had previously outted a solve, with one piece switching out. The implication at that point was that "these people are scum to me" and "these people are town to me" and I don't understand why he's saying I haven't said my reads. In any case, I'm currently at Luke + Enchant + Pav / Toog (?). The latter slot depends on Enchant's flip. I'd still shoot Luke first.

--

@Marci: Beyond this, if you want a reason not to shoot me, please look at my interactions with T3 and Luke (if you think he's scum. If you don't then meh). The things I was calling them both out for aren't things people weren't going for or noticing but I was right on T3 being weird about the things he was saying, and I think I'm right on Luke too.

Even if Luke says I was wavering/going back to my read on him when it was convenient, it isn't quite like that. If a read is unpopular, I will go after it for a bit, but... why do I put my energy into something in the moment that isn't going to go anywhere? It would've been a vanity push, and after a certain point on Luke no one else was agreeing so yeah, I did try to see it how everyone else was seeing it but I couldn't quite get there. And then Hectic saw it and I was right back onboard because I felt less crazy for seeing it and it's a nice feeling when someone has your back.

So yeah. There's some of my thoughts. I don't know how much I'll be around today but hope it helps.

[Vulture]

Everyone's been POEing me for... reasons? That no one's really said.

Open your eyes! >_>

[Vulture]

I skimmed that because I’m at work so I too have some thoughts but Luke; why the mixed feelings? This might be pedantic but I don’t understand why you would have them when the game for you is perhaps more clear cut than it has been all game for you?

Maybe I missed something but my expectation would be that you are sure of yourself.

[Vulture]

Like, saying stuff like “Hectic didn’t wait on a case from me to decide that I’m scum... so he’s scum” is the sort of thing that I don’t follow really? Why does someone need to wait for more thoughts from you if they’ve already decided you’re scum from the other thoughts you’ve put into the thread?

[Vulture]

Also given the thread’s trajectory on Enchant saying you dislike him now for making a dice roll comment of all the things that he’s said feels like an attempt to distance now that it’s a requirement for you to win versus trying to get town shots.

As in “one of us is going down, bare minimum, so now we have to make the other look good.”

[Vulture]

I feel like all game Hectic or since his rep in has been the person everyone’s played around? When he’s townread by the majority his word is law (and that’s why people flipped on Pav I think and kept him in their POEs for a while?). When there is any doubt the scum then pivot onto him to try and get him flipped.

The issue with that is, in turn... I think for getting one town flip the scum team gets shot twice over? (I agree with Luke and Enchant being scum so that’s my working assumption.)

What I think could have been a possibility before was to get a shot onto someone else and then get Hectic shot for the win, but the gladiate is throwing a wrench into things. It’s not official but it feels like it is on a way if that makes sense.

[Vulture]

So tl;dr I think most of if not all of the scum team have aligned reads on Hectic right now and have all game to try and pocket and then force out when it was opportune.

[Vulture]

I’m currently at Luke + Enchant + Toog. Enchant forgetting Hectic in his reads is incredibly funny but I also don’t know what it means for my theory. I still think it stands firm because it isn’t Enchant going /against/ it.

After T3 I lazily townbinned Hockey for most of the game but given their reads I should probably revisit, but it didn’t feel like T3 was treating him like a partner. More like how Marci was defended with the weird meta tells, Hockey got the newb treatment. Both lazy reasons when you can’t make up reasons to townread people you know are town.

[Vulture]

Okay, work time.

[Vulture]

Like, saying stuff like “Hectic didn’t wait on a case from me to decide that I’m scum... so he’s scum” is the sort of thing that I don’t follow really? Why does someone need to wait for more thoughts from you if they’ve already decided you’re scum from the other thoughts you’ve put into the thread?

What a fucking mis rep.

I said that going from "here is my scum team" to "I will bet the game on this read" from before post 787 to after post 787 is wild, and not a real thought. does not seem real. Not a genuine trajectory. Scum motivated

You jumping past all of the other things that make me suspicious of hectic both in this post and my last one, trying to narrow it down to just is a wild misrep.

I did clarify that I was skimming; I wanted to get my thoughts out on what I noticed. This in particular was in reply to this portion:

“ The biggest concerns for me there are first that I have not even made a case yet at this point. Without seeing my thoughts to look at them to gauge if they were genuine, the mere idea that I was swapping to a scum read on him meant he was ready to bet the whole game on his brand new read? Which, to be clear, he was claiming to be so sure that he was willing to bet the whole game. In the world of town!hectic, if he If you shot him first, and he instantly shoots me. Of he is wrong, town loses

So I guess I don't see the genuine town thought processes behind seeing exactly that post "been thinking about the game wrong, will write it all out tonight" and think, "aha! I have caught scum, and I am so sure that I will bet the game on it" -- and I think it was actually designed to preempt and discredit the case I had coming.”

This is one issue I have with your scumread on Hectic, not all of them. You made some weird posts that were tonally Bad that I picked up on as well. Like, bad-bad. He locks you in on that and you are saying here that it’s scummy that he didn’t wait to scumread you is my interpretation, but my problem with that is that you have an iso’s worth of stuff to read so him scumreading you and feeling confident isn’t an issue? He gauged that you weren’t genuine prior to whatever case you were and it’s a reach to say that he was trying to discredit you before you even made it when his read was based on old content...

[Vulture]

Like, saying stuff like “Hectic didn’t wait on a case from me to decide that I’m scum... so he’s scum” is the sort of thing that I don’t follow really? Why does someone need to wait for more thoughts from you if they’ve already decided you’re scum from the other thoughts you’ve put into the thread?

What a fucking mis rep.

I said that going from "here is my scum team" to "I will bet the game on this read" from before post 787 to after post 787 is wild, and not a real thought. does not seem real. Not a genuine trajectory. Scum motivated

You jumping past all of the other things that make me suspicious of hectic both in this post and my last one, trying to narrow it down to just is a wild misrep.

Like I don’t feel like you’re trying to narrow down anything? It feels like you’ve decided now who to go after and push and case because it’s how you win. Even here the repetition of “not real not real” feels fake to me. It’s the same issue I had with your earlier post that was speculating on “oh, I could be thinking about the game wrong.” Those posts are the sort of thing that makes it seem like you’re speculating on the game but you’re just... not? It’s going through the motions.

[Vulture]

I am leaning back to vulture >enchant on that last slot

I’d also like to point out that this coming after I reaffirmed Enchant in my scumteam feels like an attempt to defend Enchant.

[Vulture]

I guess part of my issue too is that saying that it’s scummy for someone’s reads to change when someone starts scumreading them is weird because it is new information that forces you to rethink things. Dunno. Break’s over so I might expand on this later.

[Vulture]

Well damn.

[Vulture]

So I don’t know if I’m allowed to speculate on that or not... but why would that be the thing T3 laughs at.

[Vulture]

Yeah.

I think it was an honest mistake but man that’s an AI one and I feel like laughing at Hockey doing it is like... Something is there that either clears them or damns them but I’m not seeing the bad stuff about Hockey otherwise...

[Vulture]

Thank you. I am trying my best to soldier on.

[Vulture]

Good shot.

[Vulture]

@Marci, I haven’t been around and probably won’t be much so my reads are in stasis and the same as before. I haven’t caught up and won’t be able to for a while.

[Vulture]

Hey.

Still not feeling great and kind of just left this game alone through it all. Shoot who you want Marci, I think we're okay regardless.

Probably should have put on V/LA or something.

I'll catch up with the next shot most likely, new info shiny to bird eyes.

[Vulture]

RIP Marci.

Uh... I said I would try to get back into this but my reads remain. The only weird thing is what Hockey pointed out about Luke / me because a green flip should set off alarm bells in his head given the dynamic we have had this game.

I don’t know if he’s writing that off as a thing because he scumreads Luke or what have you.

I probably end up at Pav/Toog if Luke is town fwiw. I haven’t read back deeply through how Luke and Hectic interacted and the flipping around of reads there though so it’s subject to change. If Luke is scum which is where I’m at then it’s probably just Toog for me atm.

[Vulture]

RIP Marci.

Uh... I said I would try to get back into this but my reads remain.

The only weird thing is what Hockey pointed out about Luke / me because a green flip should set off alarm bells in his head given the dynamic we have had this game.

I don’t know if he’s writing that off as a thing because he scumreads Luke or what have you.

I probably end up at Pav/Toog if Luke is town fwiw. I haven’t read back deeply through how Luke and Hectic interacted and the flipping around of reads there though so it’s subject to change. If Luke is scum which is where I’m at then it’s probably just Toog for me atm.

What does the bolded mean? Are you trying to anti-pair yourself with Luke? seems kinda odd?

Also, the progression of peoples reads on Hectic is so ???. Like people hard trd him, started shading him a bit, and then back to him not being in your poe. like wtf. i think hectic is town BECAUSE of this

Oh, I meant Pav instead of you I think. I was phoneposting.

It's more that when you look at a game and see two people thunderdoming for a good portion of it and one flips town, you... should instinctually look to the other to see what they saw? Like, you know they were acting in good faith and if you're not reconsidering that would be strange to me.

[Vulture]

@Pav

Sorry, I keep bungling my words trying to explain when I’m busy.

Basically, I think that when two people are fighting all game and 1 flips town the immediate reaction should to re-assess the other one, as you now have a now confirmed town whose words were going after this other person. It was just that you didn’t have that innate “oh I’d so look at Vulture and reassess then and there!!” That made me go ?. But my fighting with him has died down in retrospect anyways and is dulled by Luke/Hectic which invokes the same response.

[Vulture]

Sorry. I’ll give this my attention tonight after work. Pav towncase would be nice in the event I get shot because I’m pretty stuck on it being Toog but that’s like two weeks old. /shrug

More later.

[Vulture]

I wish I had more motivation to post in any games lately but it's not there.

Still haven't caught up, perpetually being the guy who sucks.

You're probably right that I don't instashoot Toog if only because I hate being the person who fucks things up in ELO.

If it's Pav GG because everyone seems to be like "okay cool" about him. I should revisit the points where people were scumreading him and see if there was any merit or just scum pushing him but meh.

This is... about all you're getting from me right now.

[Vulture]

GG. Lost the WIM and by the end it’s just a bit too much to deal with all the previous info, no NKs, etc. Could of put in the work but don’t think it would’ve bore fruit.

Maybe this alt can rest for a while now.

[Vulture]

Thanks to the scumteam. You guys were chill.