Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: manateegal
Sheeping penguin

[Gamma Emerald]

Enchant, do you have any particular reason for the Titus vote?

Bee is Vigilante 100%.

Why would you reveal that?

-Harvey

It's obvious, every townie worth salt pick Vig.

I might if I were early on
idk about others, would bee feel confident in her SRs enough to shoot them down?

btw I've been trying to think of ways we could trap scum using claims and I don't think there's any objective way to find scum using them

[Gamma Emerald]

Your list is upside down!

what do you make of me voting manatee then?

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s no such thing as a bad vig shot.

And I don’t think there is unless they try to claim something that someone else took. But otherwise they can either true claim or VT and we won’t know until night actions.

I disagree, I've seen a bad vig shot firsthand

also I think scum have enough wiggle room to know what should possibly be a safe claim to make? There's room for error I guess but I feel like the fact they get to coordinate factors into this

[Gamma Emerald]

If you really want to know.

Titus, because he used 999999999999 and somehow still higher than me.
Dirty play.

it's not exactly dirty, it's tactical
Titus decided she wanted to be the last of the single selections in the draft (which generally places you middle-of-the-pack) and thus picked a high number she didn't expect anyone else to go for

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, I do have one small nitpick with you so far that I’m sitting on independently of the vote.

okay. It doesn't have to be now but I'd like to know what this is at some point

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s no such thing as a bad vig shot.

And I don’t think there is unless they try to claim something that someone else took. But otherwise they can either true claim or VT and we won’t know until night actions.

I disagree, I've seen a bad vig shot firsthand

also I think scum have enough wiggle room to know what should possibly be a safe claim to make? There's room for error I guess but I feel like the fact they get to coordinate factors into this

Just narrowing the POE...! I don’t think I’ve ever successfully shot scum as vig.

And yeah, maybe after a bit they’ll have fake claims if they want. I’ve never paid attention to runs of this setup but do scum generally go for claiming roles they don’t have or is it played safe?

I've shot scum a few times as vig, it's fun
but I've also made some pretty dumb shots, as well as seen dumb shots made by others

[Gamma Emerald]

Your list is upside down!

what do you make of me voting manatee then?

Bee's reversed list would put you and ManateeGal towards the top; wouldn't it be more interesting to direct this question towards me?

-Harvey

nah
I think it's reasonable to expect an early distancing vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Could scum pick same number with someone?

Otherwise all samenumber pickers can't be both mafia i think.

yeah
I've seen scum deliberately pick the same number as a distancing move before in this sort of game

[Gamma Emerald]

Sacrifice PR chances for that?...

... Honestly brilliant. No one expect that.

in a setup like this I guess that wouldn't be as advised, the instance I mentioned was in a smalltown role madness game

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I'm maybe curious as to what led Flea to pick 13
that's a number I think you pick for a reason

[Gamma Emerald]

what's NOT special about 13? It's either a lucky number or an unlucky one depending on who you ask, plus it's the standard mini game size here

[Gamma Emerald]

Another thing to consider is iirc tied numbers are resolved by who submitted first
Tho a glance at the OP would probably confirm/bust this

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe that’s why you didn’t like yours?

I was like "DAMN!" when I saw this and my butt chimed in with agreement

[Gamma Emerald]

Why did you pick 13?

because it's my lucky/preferred number in the GTBK guessing game (I don't expect anyone to understand what this means)

[Gamma Emerald]

idk why you picked 19 last time so idk anything about what 3 means now

[Gamma Emerald]

then you probably wanted to be a PR less this game

[Gamma Emerald]

idk
if you're a strong user of power roles as town it might be a bit of a scumtell? I don't really know anything about you to draw a conclusion from

[Gamma Emerald]

3, perhaps a 4
main highlight might be interactions with thor

[Gamma Emerald]

did I say I SRed Thor?

[Gamma Emerald]

Later maybe

[Gamma Emerald]

ok. i'm gonna draw some fan-art of your scumread of thor.

Show me when you get a chance

[Gamma Emerald]

admitting to the scumread

I didn’t admit to nuthin

[Gamma Emerald]

Tho tbh I feel like Thor has been looking like he’s generating content but it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere, mostly regarding draft numbers
So yeah tw was right the read was just waiting to be realized

[Gamma Emerald]

413 - x

Whoever did this is a HUGE FUCKING NERD

[Gamma Emerald]

As well as Titus, it probably makes Harvey and Haley town as well, scum really don't seem to like going for high or meme numbers; 69 would be the second highest on this list

42 might be a meme number
413 definitely is a meme number

[Gamma Emerald]

was that saskeismyyaoikismesis? i'd need to check

yooooo
I wanna play with them (forgot their pronoun) again!

[Gamma Emerald]

Gonna need to hear a meme case for this one

For what, those being meme numbers?
42 is a meme from Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, and 413 is a meme number from Homestuck

[Gamma Emerald]

Still, that's only 2 in 45 picks

true

[Gamma Emerald]

tw I’m gonna need you to change your pfp to that one meme image on Danaerys

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

Sir I get you come from off-world but I struggle to see how the resembles a goat to you
That is very much an eagle

[Gamma Emerald]

He's obviously referring to Cat Scratch Fever.

So was I, of course. I mean, have you seen that cat GIF avatar? Adorable. Easy number one cutest.

I thought CSF was his favorite coming in
So it has to be someone else now

[Gamma Emerald]

not to mention an azelf, a god, a duck-fox and a bee.

Also a gem, a doctor, and a Titus
(Btw the Magician portion is the more descriptive part of Flea’s name, Flea is in reference to a musician)

[Gamma Emerald]

Who's in the mood for some sweet, sweet RQS?

-Harvey Dent

Just, DO IT!

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I got carried away with what the point of the initial post was, but yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

it makes sense tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you still just sheeping Penguin, Gamma? Why is your vote where it is right now?

I still on manatee because I don't want to weaken the wagon there

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

it makes sense tho

It's not about whether or not the explanation makes sense. It's about the motivation in doing so in the first place, and the way in which it's done.

It's a weird thing to say with limited speech I guess, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it

[Gamma Emerald]

okay I didn't see H+H's post, they may have a point too

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

what do you think of enchant?

not much

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: House
I think manatee's handling of the wagon on her seems towny

what do you think of enchant?

not much

why did you hop on house with sea cow?

I had thoughts on house, not on enchant

[Gamma Emerald]

I think there are some interesting micro-pings from house rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean I answered your questions? What more do you want

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

it makes sense tho

It's not about whether or not the explanation makes sense. It's about the motivation in doing so in the first place, and the way in which it's done.

It's a weird thing to say with limited speech I guess, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it

Oh, and for anyone wondering why i picked 4 (I remember someone askeda general question about picks), it's my favorite low level number and i wasn't concerned about rolling PR because i don't want my possible miselim for low content hurting town.

Feels like this is trying too hard to justify yourself.

I feel like this is fine, but dropping a vote on Manatee without comment on the quickly formed counterwagon is what feels a bit off to me...?

-H

i mirror this thought process

okay I didn't see H+H's post, they may have a point too

basically I think what House did when he popped in was kinda wolfy
while the read is weak for now I feel like this sort of read has served me well in the past

[Gamma Emerald]

it looked like she wasn't specifically trying to get people to move off or otherwise squirming under pressure, and the fact she questioned the counterwagon is a plus

[Gamma Emerald]

Who's in the mood for some sweet, sweet RQS?

-Harvey Dent

On page 12? Calm yourself two-face.

Oh yeah I wanted to reply to that
It’s kinda late for an RQS at this point, ngl I kinda think it might be legitimately scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

just you wait pal

[Gamma Emerald]

just you wait pal

And what the fuck is this post supposed to accomplish?



I've already stated that i don't give a fuck if i get voted. When i flip, though, i hope people remember 385, because you're acting scummy as hell.

I can't say more due to ongoing games but you're dead wrong if you think I'm not just a little more comfortable with sorting you early

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm done talking to you for the rest of this one simply for bringing up those two words while referring to spring me

That's dirty play and I'll have none of it.

VOTE: Gamma

Vote fucking parked until one of us is dead.

I'm not saying the ongoing game is making me SR you, it's just impacting how I approach you.
That's the last I say of it until that game wraps, and while I don't want to thunderdome if you're going to act like a child I'll fight as best I can to stay alive.

[Gamma Emerald]

house does have a point that you're not really doing anything with the enchant vote, tw

[Gamma Emerald]

Reported for continuing to refer to ongoing.

Think I'm fucking playing? Fuck that.

do you feel like a big boy now?

[Gamma Emerald]

unless a person literally refused to pick a role I'm not gonna believe someone is VT just off draft behavior

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

also good2know that thor knows wake

[Gamma Emerald]

sadly, that option isn't a thing.

fr?
what happens if you don't submit anything?

[Gamma Emerald]

also why is titus town?

[Gamma Emerald]

wat
what if you deliberately submit nothing, as in saying "I pick nothing" to the mod?

[Gamma Emerald]

KEKW

[Gamma Emerald]

I figured that out p fast (by clicking the sig links lol)

[Gamma Emerald]

vote count 1.06

mod notes

~ boop

flavour

this is a hella mood

Idk, i can relate.

I was bored af in school because i always read ahead and had the curriculum sorted long before the teacher introduced it, to the point where i felt school was a waste of time and started skipping to hang out with friends.

Teachers asked my parents to let me skip grades, but my mother was all, "no, he needs to be around children his own age"

I was pretty much railroaded into focusing on my schoolwork/certain extracurriculars over making friends and now I have literally zero friends from high school I have any major attachment to

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Thor knows @titus

[Gamma Emerald]

YIKES

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe that's an overreaction but something tells me that's not gonna strike a good chord with titus

[Gamma Emerald]

the wagons were also RVS wagons which I feel like have more ability to be SvS

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe that's an overreaction but something tells me that's not gonna strike a good chord with titus

There were no affairs with my ex marriage.

wasn't sure, just felt like it was a touchy subject

[Gamma Emerald]

i think house will actually generate more quality content if we stop talking about house vs. gamma.

p much agree with this

[Gamma Emerald]

damn, PP is good

[Gamma Emerald]

I wasn't trying to ban bait at all
I was literally just defending my reading of you

[Gamma Emerald]

Good posting from Penguin, pretty bad posting from Gamma.

Agree, disagree.

Same

Neutral posting from Penguin, good posting from Gamma

Good posting from Penguin, neutral posting from gamma.

Probably good posting from penguin, decent posting from gamma

[Gamma Emerald]

CSF is probably town because I relate to the buddying paranoia, I’ve had it before, mostly when town

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

Yeah it looks like filler

[Gamma Emerald]

Mmhmmm. Nice try.

No, the nice try is to you for trying to bait me off Gamma.

If he isn't going to have actions taken against his ban baiting from above, I'm staying parked here.

Are you fucking serious? I wasn’t ban baiting, you ignorant clown! You said my read formation on you was suspicious, I replied saying when my ship comes in it’ll make more sense, and now you’ve got your panties in a twist. I’m half-inclined to think you’re scum for making such a big deal out of something that wasn’t even close to what you’re misrepresenting it as.

[Gamma Emerald]

Try not to turbolim anyone.

Not even me, whom you’ve got a hate-boner for rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who's in the mood for some sweet, sweet RQS?

-Harvey Dent

On page 12? Calm yourself two-face.

Oh yeah I wanted to reply to that
It’s kinda late for an RQS at this point, ngl I kinda think it might be legitimately scummy

There we go, I was wondering if the mere

mention

of RQS would be attacked as scummy without even actually doing it

@House: I acknowledge your comment on Manatee! My tiny concern was about how there was an Enchant counterwagon that formed just before that, and you made the Manatee vote without mentioning your approval of the Enchant wagon.

-Harvey

FYI I’m not the type to just blanket attack RQS, I’ve done it myself several times. The timing of your suggestion with no actual backbone to it felt like you were scum who didn’t feel like you had a good entrance available so you tried to float the RQS boat out

[Gamma Emerald]

it felt like you were scum who didn’t feel like you had a good entrance available so you tried to float the RQS boat out

That feels extremely hollow given I had plenty of other content by then (that was my 26th post) and around the same time too...?

-Harvey

Has it all been the one head?

[Gamma Emerald]

Has it all been the one head?

I have been signing all my posts -Harvey; are you saying you actually assumed that one RQS post was from the other head?

-Harvey

Kinda
I have literally zero ability to tell you two apart by tags

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisi's last 6 modded games:

The Coalition

implosion
PookyTheMagicalBear

Psyche

Uncle Shelby*
GuiltyLion
Vulture
Art
The Cheek of Gamma (CheekyTeeky + Gamma Emerald)

GrandpaMo gray
StrangeMatter**

Illwei***

sang froid*
Lukewarm
T3
Ydrasse*

Cabd*

The Bulge**

DkKoba
clidd
Infinity 324

Ahsoka

Not_Mafia

Raya36

Lostego volxen*
Gimli son of Glóin

Amélie

Vasex
Battle Mage**
flow trap

floo***

KittyTacky
LoneMarkhor*

skitter30

Ydrasse
team rocket queen*

Iconeum

Andresvmb*
northsidegal*
Something_Smart*
sang froid*
UneveN*

VFP*

Moongrass
Sigmund

T3
clidd
Andante

osuka**
Anya*

Andresvmb***
PookyTheMagicalBear*
Robert M Hunter*
InsidiousLemons
Save The Dragons
VFP

DkKoba*

Asteria

It looks like Datisi likes to spread out scum in the playerlist between games, making all positions covered.
However, position 2 has NEVER rolled scum. This makes it due to be rolled scum, and makes Something_Smart more likely to be scum.

Datisi also doesn't like putting scum next to each other on the playerlist, other than 1 case 6 games ago. This makes it unlikely that scum are next to each other. So if Something_Smart is scum, Flea The Magician and Cat Scratch Fever are less likely to be scum.

Oh dear lord

While this seems genuine that’s actually more worrisome than it being forced because this is seeming to dive into Gambler’s Fallacy

[Gamma Emerald]

Thor thats a scumy af take and fuckin hilarious attempt at lookin busy

I think he believes it actually contributes something

[Gamma Emerald]

Neat
Also while I kinda jumped at shadows on interpreting what the RQS was doing I think Flea is right that it was pointless filler

[Gamma Emerald]

Literally the only thing I’ve seen come of it was a shitty “gotcha” scumread on me which feels very easy to fake as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Thor missed the only part of statistical analysis which is actually relevant to this game and I'm wondering if that's negligent enough that it's agenda indicative.

I don’t feel like it is but I’m not closed to that concept

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there a particular line of questioning you liked?

not really!! i was just skimming their iso and i was like "i like the amount of question marks in here"

that is very surface level

[Gamma Emerald]

hey house. who are gamma's partners?

I don’t know how to feel about you constantly prodding people on me, you seem quite invested in your TR on me

[Gamma Emerald]

So, yeah, go ahead and eliminate me based off of outside influence. Because that's totally within the rules.

Literally not what I’m doing, and you’ve refused to engage me when I’ve said that before so until you do I’m taking it as willful ignorance.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

?

Seems like i was fast with townreads.

Why MM is mafia?

How were you “fast with townreads”?

[Gamma Emerald]

He never rushes to make these kinds of calls on me when he's town.

I mentioned what I did in response to this. For no other reason.
My vote remains on House until he acknowledges this.

[Gamma Emerald]

And tbh I think the last game I had where I didn’t snap to a read on House was actually a scumgame so that’s actually just a lie in general.

[Gamma Emerald]

Some scum can also be scared of opinions of their posts after they post

I feel like when I’m scum I end up refreshing the page when I post something I’m worried might not go over well

[Gamma Emerald]

Fwiw I intentionally avoid pagetops because they lose the context of the post

When you’re posting content, sure

[Gamma Emerald]

“House acknowledge that his reaction to Gamma was undue” challenge

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok cool
At this point House is refusing to acknowledge my responses properly because it would force him to either abandon or fake a new reason for his shut push on me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I explained why it wasn’t what it looked like. You’re refusing to accept that, and at this point the only logical explanation is you don’t want to abandon your excuse to push me.

[Gamma Emerald]

So atp if there is a vig I 100% expect them to target house first because he’s not actually meeting me anywhere close to halfway here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk
I personally try not to jump straight to “this person is breaking the rules” so I’d assume others would do the same but maybe House is just uncharitable, which still doesn’t justify tuning out my posts to this degree
So I guess the former

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't play with cheaters.

I’ve said a dozen times at this point I wasn’t cheating, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking I was, there’s a simple solution.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't play with cheaters.

I’ve said a dozen times at this point I wasn’t cheating, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking I was, there’s a simple solution.

You're not allowed to request replace outs.

I wasn’t gonna say that outright, I’m just pushing House’s buttons because he’s either a scumfuck or a dumbfuck rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Discussing ongoing games typically only results in replace outs from my experience, unless you have reason to believe the mods would skip a pretty large step with you
And I’ve already said it was only in response to you say my read on you was bunk, so you could 100% skirt the topic by dropping that point. But you didn’t, because you still felt a need to push me. That’s because you’re scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

He already reported it and is upset I didn’t get more than a warning
I wasn’t initially inclined to bring this up but he’s got his head well up his ass on this topic and also decided to pull the “publicly announce a report rather than keep it private” card so w/e

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: harvey and haley
Idk about Enchant but I feel this is a decent vote seeing as I’ve seen like a few people express suspicion toward this slot and I also suspect them

[Gamma Emerald]

House, why you think i am mafia?

You have a high fluff to content ratio, and you're open to voting everyone you haven't arbitrarily townread, which you've given no reason for reading as town for most of us so you can flip your reads on us without having to explain why.

This seems like solid reasoning at least
I’ll still stay on H+H for science (aka leaving the potential for a counterwagon)

[Gamma Emerald]

i dont like thors pagetop post but what i dislike more is house's constant signalling about how wrong it is

This reminded me I had a thought
I’m gonna put off going further on exploring it for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Manatee, i think that's sarcasm.

Yeah he’s just mocking the concept
I feel like Thor has a semblance of a point on that subject, there’s probably just more nuance to it

[Gamma Emerald]

I've been cooling on the idea that Thor is scum.

I think he's been forming reads in his own way and liked his read on house. I'm also willing to buy that his funposting is town posting.

And MM isn't a bad vote from his point of view.

I'm just unsure where to go at this point.

Why not Enchant/H+H?

[Gamma Emerald]

Wasn’t sure how many enchant had but it felt like a sizeable amount, and certainly less than H+H

[Gamma Emerald]

more, not less*

[Gamma Emerald]

Million of flies can't be wrong.

Interesting response when her next move was to vote you

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wasn’t sure how many enchant had but it felt like a sizeable amount, and certainly less than H+H

So you're not really opposed to a wagon on either atp, is my understanding correct?

Yup

[Gamma Emerald]

What are your thoughts on only listing your top 2-3 interests in elimination instead of posting entire reads lists?

This seems reasonable
For me it’s probably Enchant/H+H

[Gamma Emerald]

I think that’s patently untrue but keep pushing lies if you think that helps

[Gamma Emerald]

I expressed town feelings on ManateeGal at one point, though you probably overlooked that in your haste to generalize my posts as dealing with 3 slots

[Gamma Emerald]

I think a more pertinent question is “why is Gamma focusing on certain slots more than others?”

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl I feel like miss midnight might be scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I think a more pertinent question is “why is Gamma focusing on certain slots more than others?”

Indeed. Is there more nuanced reasoning than the below?

VOTE: harvey and haley
Idk about Enchant but I feel this is a decent vote seeing as I’ve seen like a few people express suspicion toward this slot and I also suspect them

House, why you think i am mafia?

You have a high fluff to content ratio, and you're open to voting everyone you haven't arbitrarily townread, which you've given no reason for reading as town for most of us so you can flip your reads on us without having to explain why.

This seems like solid reasoning at least
I’ll still stay on H+H for science (aka leaving the potential for a counterwagon)

-Harvey

I was gonna respond to this but forgot because I switched devices
I feel like you haven’t really generated content of your own volition much

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl I feel like miss midnight might be scum

Join us!

I still feel like H+H is untread ground

[Gamma Emerald]

What are your other reads rn Manatee?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah my TR on Manatee is starting to wane :/

[Gamma Emerald]

how is that missing that Titus knows Thor?

[Gamma Emerald]

well I'm just chiming in with my perspective on his posts there

[Gamma Emerald]

You'll have to excuse me if I eschew the typical style of a full spampost catch up, I think it might double the length of the thread. And that's if I could even get through it before passing out.

Also, yeah. That's how far behind I am, in case it wasn't clear. Back to it.

These feel mildly performative and are a waste of space

[Gamma Emerald]

For the record, and it truly is for the record because the thread has probably moved past this discourse by now, none of my scumread on Thor was based on a "weird" playstyle or any of the random stats posts. It was primarily based off of the vote on Gamma, which I think was pretty heavily scummy. Don't think the stats posts themselves are scum indicative, but also they're not town indicative. Think the most revealing parts of Thor's ISO, as I've seen it from what I've read until, come from posts voting, discussing votes or talking about reads.

Why

was the vote on me scummy, and how does it alter your read of me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Presumably then she thought I claimed that nobody had ever drawn a valuable conclusion from VCA and wanted to object to it.

I’m thinking S_S is town rn
This post probably isn’t relevant to that, I just needed something to pin my position in my reading

[Gamma Emerald]

Why? I can pretty easily see town deciding between their scumleans by picking one that might get traction, and then documenting that decision

As I was saying earlier, it feels lazy and devoid of any further thought. There was nothing about the reasons others had suspected me. There was no summary of his own reasoning - he had expressed a dislike of my earlier attack on him, and adding that may have strengthened his attack.

It makes it look like he was seeking to leave a comfortable votepark, rather than actually threaten me.

-Harvey

The last line is true I guess, but that’s not scum-exclusive
The idea was to see who joined on and have that become the pressure I wanted to apply

[Gamma Emerald]

It makes it look like he was seeking to leave a comfortable votepark, rather than actually threaten me.

He may have been. Given the circumstances, that alone is not scum indicative.

I was already thinking a House was town but the fact he could have taken an easier stance here IMO cements that somewhat

[Gamma Emerald]

He may have been. Given the circumstances, that alone is not scum indicative.

Sure.
Enchant also goes from "Not much" (344) to "Idk" (1009) to "Why not?" (1037)
Manatee goes from "Don't wanna weaken the wagon" (328) to "Manatee's handling of her wagon seems towny" (344) to "TR starting to wane" (1128).
Neither of these trajectories look any impressive either.

As I was saying earlier, it feels lazy and devoid of any further thought.

I mean he specifically referenced the existence of further thought... why not ask about his other reasons, instead of assuming he has none?

And I acknowledge that in my post. Two things: first, in that sentence, I meant thought regarding other players' suspicions on me; second, I knew he had other reasons for suspecting me - as I pointed out, my problem is that he didn't express them in that post, that addition alone, from his PoV could have strengthened the attack. Instead it just looks like he's lazily voteparking after seeing other people suspect me.

-Harvey

I thought of something.

@Harvey:

what games of mine do you primarily rely on when meta’ing me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not saying you have to wall (in fact, please don't), but I guess I expected you to distill it down to a couple of points and nip it in the bud or something.

This feels reasonable

[Gamma Emerald]

My big issue with Harvey and Haley rn is WIM telling. Haley being absent is probably the biggest red flag for me here, especially if I assume it's Anya based on Auro's previous interactions with them, and having played with them being absent scum.


Miss Midnight needs a good read over too when i'm sane.

What’s Anya’s relation to that hydra? It’s Auro and Xtoxm.

[Gamma Emerald]

We don't need an ironclad case D1 just >rand scum.

I'm not a fan of this statement.

Not that i disagree about not needing an ironclad case on d1, just that the way it's put across as an, "any lim'll do" kinda vibe.

That's true to a point. I have my preferences but any non townread lim will so.

To add background, iirc she played this way D1 in mini normal 2226 (which just ended)

[Gamma Emerald]

Enchant read it's waffle-ish, but given that it's d1, that is whatevs.

I truly loathe his progression on Manatee, though. That has bothered me for a long time.

Why is my stance questionable but Enchant gets a pass because it's day 1?

This is talking about my stance on Enchant

[Gamma Emerald]

Does Xtoxm like playing one alignment over the other?

VOTE: Gamma

My scumread on Miss Midnight was because it felt like she was playing whack a mole but only punching the moles halfway with the hammer, like when she said she thought me listing 3 most likely scum positions was an attempt at really bad shade, when it was just an observation. She's applied a little more force on the Gamma whack though which I like.

Hi wolfy poppins. No wait, bunny poppins.

You see a new wagon to Enchant and you be hoppin like it was a carrot.

That fact did not escape me

[Gamma Emerald]

It's condensed, I can't recall specific games - but the "meta" I'm using that you usually express greater nuance in reads, is that incorrect?

To a point it’s correct
I’m trying to re-adjust how I read because I’ve felt like I’ve been missing the mark more than I should, so that might be why I’ve been off from what you expect

[Gamma Emerald]

And what do you make out of that post being reasonable? Feels like a very arbitrary post to quote and mention reasonable.

It’s not exactly AI, I’m just like “that feels like the thing I would do when faced with a wallcase against me, good to know me and catscratch think alike”

[Gamma Emerald]

I at least try to include my mid-catch up asides within my catch up posting

[Gamma Emerald]

For the record, and it truly is for the record because the thread has probably moved past this discourse by now, none of my scumread on Thor was based on a "weird" playstyle or any of the random stats posts. It was primarily based off of the vote on Gamma, which I think was pretty heavily scummy. Don't think the stats posts themselves are scum indicative, but also they're not town indicative. Think the most revealing parts of Thor's ISO, as I've seen it from what I've read until, come from posts voting, discussing votes or talking about reads.

Why

was the vote on me scummy, and how does it alter your read of me?

I think that it was pretty clear from the beginning of your whole interaction with House that much of it was really about external stuff and not about in-game stuff. Not that I want to retread any of this, but House's vote on you especially seemed pretty explicitly to be non-game relevant. So Thor's following House onto a vote on you without any additional comment indicating some other reason for the vote or the timing is noteworthy in itself. We can speculate on the hypothetical motivation for a scum Thor, but the basic fact doesn't change that it doesn't seem especially town motivated to me.

Thor's vote on you there has no bearing on my read on you.

Okay
Why do you think Thor would have wanted to hop on me like that?

[Gamma Emerald]

She used it as an excuse to hop off me because my wagon dissipated.

Nobody really needs "excuses" to stop voting somewhere. You can just do it and probably nobody will really make a big deal about it.

you're right, but does manatee know that?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

[Gamma Emerald]

mine

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

Why does it matter? If you're trying to argue that me thinking this should lead to me believing that you're more likely to be town, I'm not so arrogant as to be unable to consider different worlds in which I may not be right. I can scumread Thor but consider a world in which he's town but you're scum. And vice versa. Not all of your scumreads need to be fit together as partners at all times without any flips whatsoever, that would be a wildly ineffective way to play the game.

it feels more like you're trying to skirt around the chance I'm town because I'm the juicy miselim wagon rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

What’s the point of this question?

It feels like a... idk if it’s a loaded question but isn’t the simple answer that it’s probably going to be town? It feels like a rabbit hole to go down and speculate on what Thor might or might not do as a player without a lot of payoff.

yes it's loaded
the fact miss midnight decided to waffle on the thor read rather than acknowledge the chance I could be town feels like a pretty solid portent of her motives

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, but it feels like she's putting more emphasis on the gamma!scum read than the thor!scum read

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, but it feels like she's putting more emphasis on the gamma!scum read than the thor!scum read

and if you don't get why I think that's scummy, see below

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

Why does it matter? If you're trying to argue that me thinking this should lead to me believing that you're more likely to be town, I'm not so arrogant as to be unable to consider different worlds in which I may not be right. I can scumread Thor but consider a world in which he's town but you're scum. And vice versa. Not all of your scumreads need to be fit together as partners at all times without any flips whatsoever, that would be a wildly ineffective way to play the game.

it feels more like you're trying to skirt around the chance I'm town because I'm the juicy miselim wagon rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, aren't you was sure that's me/Ha-ha?

What made you change mind?

H+H kinda feel like they've been more genuine recently
I'm not gonna really act against you rn because that's a secondhand SR rn for me (I only really suspect you because of what others have said)

[Gamma Emerald]

H+H kinda feel like they've been more genuine recently

How so?

I feel like Harvey's actually been rather receptive to people's attempt to reach out to him

[Gamma Emerald]

...
I kinda wanna ask why you chose to vote me? If it's because you're counterwagoning to survive, why not miss midnight?

[Gamma Emerald]

You're never winning a 1v1 against Gamma

, and your vote on him isn't exactly a good look when he's your closest competing wagon.

I believe you're town, but I'd vote you any day of the week over him.

that's a very confident stance to take @ the bolded
I kinda get a little bit of why you think that but I already am at e-3 with Enchant's vote

[Gamma Emerald]

is that a yes to you counterwagoning?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well. Yes?

Okay.
Why am I scummier than MM to you?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well. Yes?

Okay.
Why am I scummier than MM to you?

Hard to explain.

I don't think mafia makes something like this:

Could someone who was scum... make this??

This is inane BS
Got anything actually substantive?

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't get it still even while reading what MM's saying about you. It doesn't feel like she's skirting around it but just admitting that it might not be right or fit perfectly together. Which I feel is like... a "good faith" approach because she's willing to admit it might not be right and the implication in that is that you could prove her wrong and she wouldn't still try to yeet you.

That would be a good faith approach if it was being applied without bias, which it definitely isn’t

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't get it still even while reading what MM's saying about you. It doesn't feel like she's skirting around it but just admitting that it might not be right or fit perfectly together. Which I feel is like... a "good faith" approach because she's willing to admit it might not be right and the implication in that is that you could prove her wrong and she wouldn't still try to yeet you.

That would be a good faith approach if it was being applied without bias, which it definitely isn’t

Is the bias in the post that you quoted?

Which post, I have quoted many

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, but it feels like she's putting more emphasis on the gamma!scum read than the thor!scum read

Yeah. I think you're scummier.

????

What does this have to do with "skirting around the chance [you're] town"?

Well just think about what it took to get that out of you

[Gamma Emerald]

okay, but it feels like she's putting more emphasis on the gamma!scum read than the thor!scum read

Yeah. I think you're scummier.

????

What does this have to do with "skirting around the chance [you're] town"?

Well just think about what it took to get that out of you

???

I feel like the fact it took so long to get you to take a clear stance on me vs. Thor is indicative that you are scum trying to keep options open

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: manateegal

[Gamma Emerald]

(FYI I got a few townpings from Enchant when he was pushing PP so that’s why I’m not voting there)

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma what has ManateeGal done to earn a renewed scumread?

I feel like her play has been generally evasive, there isn’t much entirely new to the read

[Gamma Emerald]

I already said my townread there was declining
It has since slid into nonexistence
Plus I feel like my initial reason to townread her was not of the type I think ends up generating good reads for me

[Gamma Emerald]

My recent content was mostly just attacking you, right? I feel like I've been plenty receptive to people reaching out to me throughout the game, so I'm curious as to what changed recently.

Your interaction with Flea is what kinda caught my eye there

[Gamma Emerald]

I think he said that because he doesn’t see it himself?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have my own reason why if you care to hear it

[Gamma Emerald]

That just makes me think of that video from team mafia 2018

[Gamma Emerald]

I've been coming up with a game winning strategy behind the scenes. I think it'll be ready to post tomorrow so be excited.

neat

[Gamma Emerald]

wat

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually had a real reason I voted House, I thought he was popping in in a way that felt suspicious
That’s just defamation.

[Gamma Emerald]

What is what

[Gamma Emerald]

To be clear it looks like you’re trying to push the same misperception House seemed to have onto the rest of the thread, and I will not abide that.

[Gamma Emerald]

The idea the OGI was backing my House push.
It wasn’t, I’ve said so many times, and you seeming to not get it speaks bad things for your motivations potentially.

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is OGI?

It means ongoing game influence.
There’s two ways I can interpret “can’t tell why” in how you described my House push. Possibility one: you mean it in the way of “I don’t know why, but I think he’s mafia”, which is not true. Possibility two is that you’re saying I can’t say because of OGI, which is again

patently untrue

, and you trying to push that line of bullshit feels like you’re trying to lie in order to make me look worse.
Now answer my motherfucking questions.

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually had a real reason I voted House, I thought he was popping in in a way that felt suspicious
That’s just defamation.

I don't believe you really believe that.

At this point you’re right
We’re re-litigating my original vote on you here. At that time I thought it more likely.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well then, i remember you taked up it though. Seems i got this whole thing wrong.

House of course doesn't look ideal, especially after "miselim", but i still consider townie enough to pass.

Also, what question?

The only real question there is what the hell was your intent with that blatant misrep
I just got tired of you acting confused

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Enchant
no matter what you meant, you definitely lied about my House push. I want to know where you were trying to go with it.

[Gamma Emerald]

TBC, I'm not actually scumreading him at this point, but if he doesn't start making some kind of sense soon, I won't be moving my vote because I'm not seeing any kind of town motivation in these posts.

He's dredging up content that has long been settled in what looks like an effort to stir up drama now that it has finally died down and I'm not feeling it.

I feel like there's a precedent for scum doing that in games I've played

[Gamma Emerald]

You = whole Town in this post.

LOL

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

Sorry about the sudden hammer :<

Disappointed but not surprised.
Auro/Enchant/?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay nvm that

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

Sorry about the sudden hammer :<

Disappointed but not surprised.
Auro/Enchant/?

Can you do a read wall with explanation?

that was just a knee-jerk thought because I thought it was actually hammer for a second
anyway, I'm not really confident enough in any reads to put forth a read wall, I feel like others are more capable of sorting this game than I rn, which is why I'm not fighting my elim with everything I've got

[Gamma Emerald]

Why weren't you surprised? Have you seen Auro lolhammer before?

I was moreso not surprised I was the elimination

[Gamma Emerald]

others are more capable of sorting this game than I rn

Why?

don't feel like I have strong reads on much of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

@the worst, Cat Scratch Fever:

why are you voting me over enchant rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

So ...

VOTE: Something_Smart

This is a thing.

Why? I kinda had a moment where I was like “he’s gonna vote me and make the Enchant wagon inviable isn’t he?” but I don’t think what he’s doing here is necessarily scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not a fan of either of the existing wagons, and S_S is riding that Neutral territory like his life depends on it.

Okay, so you think S_S is trying to coast on null reads
That seems possible, and if S_S does flip scum that probably says a lot about his team’s positioning in the game (what specifically, I’m not to sure, maybe they’re all around that same null level?)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Enchant
no matter what you meant, you definitely lied about my House push. I want to know where you were trying to go with it.

What was the lie? What makes you think Enchant was deliberately lying over genuinely misunderstanding?

In the case of it being the former in this post

Who is OGI?

It means ongoing game influence.
There’s two ways I can interpret “can’t tell why” in how you described my House push. Possibility one: you mean it in the way of “I don’t know why, but I think he’s mafia”, which is not true. Possibility two is that you’re saying I can’t say because of OGI, which is again

patently untrue

, and you trying to push that line of bullshit feels like you’re trying to lie in order to make me look worse.
Now answer my motherfucking questions.

there was potential for it to be a misunderstanding, but I went with calling it a lie because that gets attention easier

[Gamma Emerald]

i totally made a tier list of last minute flashwagon prospects. omitted myself for obvious reasons, but i think i'd flatter myself to say that i rank in around b.

{thor}
{flea, manatee}
{miss midnight}
{ss}
{bee, pp}
{csf, titus, auro, house}

What am I, chopped liver?
I s2g so many people leave me out of their reads it’s practically a meme

[Gamma Emerald]

why would you be a good last minute wagon prospect?

I'd be the least detrimental for town to lose.

Except I’m pretty sure a notable amount of people TR you atm

[Gamma Emerald]

i totally made a tier list of last minute flashwagon prospects. omitted myself for obvious reasons, but i think i'd flatter myself to say that i rank in around b.

{thor}
{flea, manatee}
{miss midnight}
{ss}
{bee, pp}
{csf, titus, auro, house}

What am I, chopped liver?
I s2g so many people leave me out of their reads it’s practically a meme

gamma....

OH.

[Gamma Emerald]

me_irl

[Gamma Emerald]

Was there sushi?
(please don’t hurt me)

[Gamma Emerald]

Eclipse, as in the third Twilight movie?

[Gamma Emerald]

When she's here, she seems very interested in the game and energetic. So it doesn't correlate that she's had very long stretches of inactivity and had to be prodded twice. It means that interest and engagement when she is here may be fake, since she seems disinterested to post actively outside of it.

I definitely get what you're saying, and I agree, but it feels like Flea's probably leading.
VOTE: Miss Moonlight
with a blank check to vote Flea in the near future

[Gamma Emerald]

As someone who sometimes posts on that pattern, there are several plausible explanations. Especially since it's an alt.

nah, I think Thor has a point. I feel like I've caught a solid number of scum on the "are active when they post but their breaks between posting are a bit too much" thing

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd probably think about it holistically, try to avoid preconceptions

[Gamma Emerald]

I never really dropped the read on you lol

[Gamma Emerald]

That's one way to read his hop onto ManateeGal -- when other people pointed out how much they disliked his push on you, he dropped it.

Eh this is accurate

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: manatee
Alright.

[Gamma Emerald]

That feels kinda flimsy
Why do you think Flea wouldn’t bus? How does your read on me factor into that?

[Gamma Emerald]

Or if manatee remains frozen we just vote her out