Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

A50 rule

[Titus]

And here's your Page 2 solve, folks.

{Titus}
{PenguinPower}
{Enchant}
{Flea the Magician, Something_Smart, Thor Ragnarok, Cat Scratch Fever}
{Miss Midnight, House, the worst}
{Gamma Emerald, Bee}
{ManateeGal}

-Harvey

Wow, I'm obvtown already.

[Titus]

If you really want to know.

Titus, because he used 999999999999 and somehow still higher than me.
Dirty play.

You've misprouned me twice. Please try to remember my pronouns are she/her.

[Titus]

@Midnight, What are your thoughts on Enchant? I have my own opinion but I want to hear yours.

[Titus]

I'd sacrifice all of my friends for a day vigilante

Omg yes if only there was a dayvig in the draft picks

-Harvey

Double elimination days rock.

[Titus]

@Midnight, What are your thoughts on Enchant? I have my own opinion but I want to hear yours.

He's been asking weird questions and having some weird thoughts. They're overly innocent thoughts, but not in a way which seems forced or intentional. Inclined to read as town, but his play so far seems different from the little I've seen from his other games; unsure how to interpret.

Why my thoughts? It's because together we're the most stylish in the playerlist, isn't it? It is, I knew it.

I have Enchant as scared scum and felt like you could be his partner.

VOTE: Enchant

[Titus]

not to mention an azelf, a god, a duck-fox and a bee.

Also a gem, a doctor, and a Titus
(Btw the Magician portion is the more descriptive part of Flea’s name, Flea is in reference to a musician)

I am just that unique

[Titus]

Draft positions of 45 scum in 15 PYP games:

1st - xxxx
2nd - xxxxx
3rd - xxx
4th - xxxx
5th - xxxxxx
6th - xxx
7th - xxx
8th - xxx
9th - xxxxx
10th - xx
11th - xx
12th - x
13th - xx
14th - xx

(most of the credit goes to hoopla)

Positions 2nd, 5th, and 9th...

Miss Midnight 8
Harvey and Haley 69
Enchant 4

Join me on Enchant please

[Titus]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

[Titus]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

i dont know what youre trying to get at here

You seem to have a problem with the Enchant wagon.

[Titus]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

Curious comment, considering your clamming-up on the circumstances of Manatee.

Curious comment given I FoSed you as partners with Enchant.

ManateeGal was an RVS wagon, nothing more. I was perfectly ok with it proceeding and I still am.

That doesn't preclude me from pushing the slots I think are scum.

You're equating silence on a topic to objecting to it.

[Titus]

Good posting from Penguin, pretty bad posting from Gamma.

Agree, disagree.

Same

[Titus]

just you wait pal

And what the fuck is this post supposed to accomplish?



I've already stated that i don't give a fuck if i get voted. When i flip, though, i hope people remember 385, because you're acting scummy as hell.

I can't say more due to ongoing games but you're dead wrong if you think I'm not just a little more comfortable with sorting you early

I'm done talking to you for the rest of this one simply for bringing up those two words while referring to spring me

That's dirty play and I'll have none of it.

VOTE: Gamma

Vote fucking parked until one of us is dead.

House, can you not go all kamikaze and actually let me nail scum rather than start a T v T?

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

I has sads. You ignored my reachout.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

House, why did you move away from your main on Wake? I thought your playstyle there was quite smooth and buttery

Lol

House is not Wake.

[Titus]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

i dont know what youre trying to get at here

You seem to have a problem with the Enchant wagon.

I was toying with the possibility that Manatee & Enchant might both be scum during my catch-up, but ultimately dismissed it as being unlikely on general principle.

What principle is that praytell?

[Titus]

2 scum blundering into competing wagons on d1?

See situation room. 3 scum were wagoned d1.

[Titus]

I like Ydrasse as town lol

[Titus]

2 scum blundering into competing wagons on d1?

See situation room. 3 scum were wagoned d1.

Just because one wife gives her husband carte blanche on extramarital affairs doesn't mean wives sign off on such behavior on a regular basis.

It's common enough (the scum wagoned, not the affairs). Plus Enchant never really took off. It's too early to tell yes or no. It's just good to push them both.

Your Gamma vote makes me sad.

[Titus]

maybe that's an overreaction but something tells me that's not gonna strike a good chord with titus

There were no affairs with my ex marriage.

[Titus]

maybe that's an overreaction but something tells me that's not gonna strike a good chord with titus

There were no affairs with my ex marriage.

wasn't sure, just felt like it was a touchy subject

If something's triggering, I'll say so but it would have to be conduct/references that are particularly close to what happened fyi.

I appreciate you looking out for me.

[Titus]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

It's shit play to refer to ongoing games when addressing a read on somebody because anything that person says in response can lead to a ban.

I don't give a damn if Gamma gets mod confirmed as all innocent child at L-1, I'd hammer him just for ban baiting me.

House, people make mistakes. You're overreacting here. I'd hate to miseliminate you here, but I will for the game state.

[Titus]

I like Ydrasse as town lol

I don't think you've ever TR me so I went 'yay' IRL :3

I townread people who have the same thoughts in a thread I do.

[Titus]

outsourcing all opinions to titus while i'm busy.

Flattered

[Titus]

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

[Titus]

I'm so gonna laugh if Thor & Enchant both flip red.

I like Thor as a better partner than Midnight. Midnight taking a chill pill when I challenged them was a good look because it seemed like a genuine attempt to sort me.

[Titus]

I think Thor, Bee, Heley and Helay, MM, House townie enough to pass.

Murder everyone else and we win.

VOTE: Cat

Why these slots in particular?

[Titus]

Thor is more passive and not funny as maf (i saw his town and mafia in one game).
Helay and Haley because of townie reaction on "You are Vig" and overall decent game.

One game meta really? I disdain meta but this hardly seems like a body of work. Link it.

[Titus]

I feel confident the worst is town. So Bee and the worst.

MM is a good second tier town.

[Titus]

Interesting the House wagon picks up now and not when he was being a drama king.

Thor is still not scumhunting.

VOTE: Thor

[Titus]

weren't you just voting gamma with house?

Lost interest in that for now, House is null to me, and there's momentum here.

-Harvey

FoS Partner

[Titus]

Would you vote Gamma if I re-voted there, Titus?

-Harvey

No.

[Titus]

I disagree, why town can't try to get best PR (VIGILANTE)?

You mean, the best PR to take away from scum? One-shot vig is surely not better than cop or doctor, but it is much better for scum.

What sense taking Cop/Doc, if you will be nightkilled fast, because mafia know who is PR.

1-Shot vigilante is better, because you still can shot someone in short time.
You also could considering taking PGO, but... Well. Different tastes?

This conversation is not helpful, as discussing the ideal strategy suggests what you'd do as a player. This helps mafia with nightkilling and is a great way to rolefish. *side eye Enchant*

[Titus]

This conversation is not helpful

Didn't read what next, i didn't ask your mind, ty.

I didn't ask you to obvscum either as it ruins the mystery.

[Titus]

Enchant + Thor is a great place to start.

[Titus]

Did it not bother you the first four times he did that?

That shit was setup spec.

I'm less than clueless about setup spec in this game.

Activity theorizing, however, I'm very familiar with. I'm a spammy motherfucker as either alignment and have always been that way, so it's something i see a lot of discussion about.

:/

I think voting Thor is a bad idea unless someone has a case other than busywork/not normal content. Like, is the information being put forward actually being used maliciously or anything?

Bee, being spammy with no content is suggestive of scum. We don't need an ironclad case D1 just >rand scum.

[Titus]

But I've been asked this before. Usually the reasons are something something wagon analysis something accountability but I've never seen anyone draw any productive information out of a vote that I placed on request.

Hey, what am I, chopped liver?

[Titus]

Who else would you want to vote?

Enchant or H and H

[Titus]

VOTE: Enchant

*prays this isn't a mistake*

[Titus]

VOTE: Enchant

*prays this isn't a mistake*

What swayed you too change your vote?

Not that i disapprove, mind... I'm just curious.

Working with my TRs and the lack of a scumhunting based wagon. The reason I shifted to Thor was that I was alone on Enchant.

The concern I have is that I let one scum go to chase another.

[Titus]

If Enchant gets to 7 votes, i WILL hammer that wagon without warning, so i suggest he treat L-2 as L-1 with intent.

Day 2, i will return to parking my vote on the cheater.

Why will you hammer without warning?

[Titus]

I hate this but if we have vigs, they may need to shoot House/Gamma due to their 1 v 1 as they'll hammer each other in elo but they'll flip town. It's a problem.

[Titus]

I don't play with cheaters.

I’ve said a dozen times at this point I wasn’t cheating, but if you want to delude yourself into thinking I was, there’s a simple solution.

You're not allowed to request replace outs.

[Titus]

Meanwhile my working theory is scum is Enchant, H and H and Thor.

[Titus]

Meanwhile my working theory is scum is Enchant, H and H and Thor.

Can you explain your H+H read? I read your earlier posts on them but I don’t get what you’re trying to explain in them.

H and H is my weakest one and comes with the awkward way they approach Thor and Enchant.

[Titus]

What do you mean by unfair?

(Side note: if this conversation is annoying/distracting, feel free to break it off whenever)

Please break it off now, all 3 of you.

[Titus]

I'm 90% confident Thor is partially memeing and chuckling at how people respond to his posts

-Harvey

This feels cheeky to refer to a partner like this.

This is true. Nice observation.

I'm struggling here b/c aspie. I'm not sassing by asking this question.

What do you mean by cheeky and why are partners unlikely to do it?

[Titus]

I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Titus]

if enough people arent reading it the same way i am then im ready to admit my interpretation is wrong

and
VOTE: Enchant

Town.

[Titus]

I like Titus' point about my interactions with Thor and Enchant.

What do you like about it? Why aren't you voting there then?

[Titus]

My head is killing me but I don't wanna be a prod-gainer.

Manatee not jumping on Midnight despite wanting to apply pressure and having a decent reason to do so from early game seems like it's a good thing unless they're S/S but I don't think Midnight advocates for a wagon on her partner like that.

Note to self: Verify this.

[Titus]

I think Thor knows @titus

Interesting that Gamma comments about his suspicion that Thor knows Titus here, but...

I think Thor might be a good wagon. Thor ignoring my reachout is bugging me. He's a big stats guy...until asked to follow up on it.

Yeah it looks like filler

... seems to miss that Titus is quite familiar with Thor here.

I'm not. I was inferring Thor is "a big stats guy" from heavy stat play.

[Titus]

how is that missing that Titus knows Thor?

You don't address her knowledge of his playstyle at all.

(Yes, they do know each other)

Great, on top of meta...meta that I'm inferred to know and expected to use...

[Titus]

Presumably then she thought I claimed that nobody had ever drawn a valuable conclusion from VCA and wanted to object to it.

This.

I can't believe I just read like 5 posts to get to that conclusion.

[Titus]

We don't need an ironclad case D1 just >rand scum.

I'm not a fan of this statement.

Not that i disagree about not needing an ironclad case on d1, just that the way it's put across as an, "any lim'll do" kinda vibe.

That's true to a point. I have my preferences but any non townread lim will so.

[Titus]

Enchant read it's waffle-ish, but given that it's d1, that is whatevs.

I truly loathe his progression on Manatee, though. That has bothered me for a long time.

Why is my stance questionable but Enchant gets a pass because it's day 1?

[Titus]

Could someone who was scum... make this??

Oh it's a picture of me and the worst in 20 years! You even drew my judge's robe! Your label is sads though.

[Titus]

Does Xtoxm like playing one alignment over the other?

VOTE: Gamma

My scumread on Miss Midnight was because it felt like she was playing whack a mole but only punching the moles halfway with the hammer, like when she said she thought me listing 3 most likely scum positions was an attempt at really bad shade, when it was just an observation. She's applied a little more force on the Gamma whack though which I like.

Hi wolfy poppins. No wait, bunny poppins.

You see a new wagon to Enchant and you be hoppin like it was a carrot.

[Titus]

interesting wagon shift

Concur. I smell wagon shopping to avoid Enchant.

[Titus]

What do you like about it? Why aren't you voting there then?

I was not an active participant in the Enchant discussion (granted, a significant bit happened while I was asleep) and given I had mild interaction with him earlier plus my general thread presence otherwise it seemed like a good attack.

Why would I vote there? I know that any association argument would be inherently incorrect.

-Harvey

Your whole posts made no sense about liking it. If you liked just the parts about Enchant and Thor, then why not vote Enchant? I didn't expect you to take the position that my attack on you was reasonable as players rarely take that PoV.

[Titus]

Looking at the VCs, I don't like how yet another counter sprung up to Enchant.

[Titus]

I'll be catching up in an estimated 3 hours.

[Titus]

Note OOG: My work may be impacted by the Caldor fire. I was planning to limit my activity in late October and November. I doubt it will have an immediate, direct impact on me but I am posting in case. I do not live in the path of the fire or near it, but one of my courthouses I practice in is. Please pray for the residents of South Lake Tahoe.

This may result in a change of timeline for my upcoming large theme game. I doubt it, but I figured you all deserved to know.

[Titus]

I just remembered.

Titus, could you say why i looks scared? Because i am never scared.
Well. Unless i need decide things.

Ugh. Tone description.

I don't see you being aggressive towards finding scum.

[Titus]

how is that missing that Titus knows Thor?

You don't address her knowledge of his playstyle at all.

(Yes, they do know each other)

Great, on top of meta...meta that I'm inferred to know and expected to use...

I inferred no such thing.

If i made an erroneous assumption i apologize, but i could have sworn that you knew his main.

I do not.

[Titus]

Oh it's a picture of me and the worst in 20 years! You even drew my judge's robe! Your label is sads though.

I don't think so. (You are still looking stylish, though.)

Awww

[Titus]

I think you're overstating or overthinking your own importance/ the importance of events surrounding you when it comes to the thread at large. I think that this is probably town indicative.

Agreed

[Titus]

My big issue with Harvey and Haley rn is WIM telling. Haley being absent is probably the biggest red flag for me here, especially if I assume it's Anya based on Auro's previous interactions with them, and having played with them being absent scum.

Haley is always low pressure D1 and I don't think he's been playing mafia lately. I'm more focused on what Harvey is doing rather than literal absence.

pedit: VOTE: gamma emerald

Why is this pedit aligned to the right? I wasn't able to spot it easily.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

-Harvey

This is interesting...

Argh really? Read crashing

[Titus]

Through the end of 57...the counterwagons to Enchant are based on a pedit and memes...

[Titus]

Spicy take:
2 or 3 scum in Peng, H+H, manatee and worst, maybe MM . Still need to reread her.

Sheeper, Meh ok, no, no, no.

[Titus]

A hydra is a hydra. While I can understand Xtomx is hesitant and unlikely to post they are still a player in this game. Your slot is the responsibility of both heads, and I get chewed out when I don't consider an entire hydra (even if I'm right).

Readable content should be organic, not forced. I'm not going to go through your ISO and interrogate every post because that would be pointless and forced. It would also potentially stall the game going back excessively instead of moving forward.

My slot is the responsibility of both heads - sure. Divided 99-1.

My content

is

organically readable, seemingly to everyone but you. You can't expect me to magically conjure content that you specifically find readable when I don't understand what would make it so.

Additionally, I don't know why you'd have to "interrogate me over every post" to gain readable content from me, like, can't we just engage/talk about stuff?

-Harvey

Flea and Harvey unlikely S v S.

[Titus]

Nah. Not feeling it.

Penguin isn't catching votes because he's obvtown.

Of note is that in the past I have fallen into the trap as scum of pushing PP ("pushing" by my standards being putting in my PoE) because he's quiet, and I have usually been met with this response and been confused/frustrated about it.

That said, I'm not feeling it here, but I've also been disengaged from large parts of the game.

Tonal town.

[Titus]

You know what...

VOTE: Flea

[Titus]

When I get off Enchant, people then pile on. Food for thought.

[Titus]

Why did you move to Flea, Titus?

I felt Enchant had stalled, so I am reconsidering. Flea pings me more lately.

[Titus]

I mean - 6 v 6 wagons with 3 days to go...come on, you know you want to.

Tempting.

[Titus]

Why do it if you're going to immediately be sorry about it?

+1 no claim too.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma

Sorry about the sudden hammer :<

Disappointed but not surprised.
Auro/Enchant/?

Can you do a read wall with explanation?

[Titus]

statistic say we elim townie 1d most likely, so why not?

Brain hating this
Gut says it's town

Could be scum hiding in audacity.

[Titus]

VOTE: Enchant

[Titus]

others are more capable of sorting this game than I rn

Why?

[Titus]

L-2

[Titus]

Why not vote someone you think is town?

I think that disagreeing with voting town is common sense.

[Titus]

VOTE: Flea

I claim Venus Fly Trap.

[Titus]

To be clear, I actually do think it could be possible that Thor is scum and also made that mistake. I just disagree that it's not a mistake, or was made intentionally to townslip.

Here's my problem with Thor's "townslip". It violates what we were asked to confirm. We were asked to pick an individual role, not a side. Therefore, I struggle to believe someone who planned his plan for a day didn't even double check this assertion.

If he had double checked his assertion, then his assertion would have made the draft cop a second role cop. They wouldn't need separate names.

Secondly, his theory puts us bo closer to winning. Let's suppose everyone follows his plan. Great, we have no separate clears from as if we didn't.

However, we could get lost in setup spec and give PR slips all over the place.

VOTE: Thor

[Titus]

Thor, why don't you want to reveal your main? I doubt many people would remember you or know who you are, so it wouldn't mean anything to most people.

As much as I think Thor is scum, it's his right to play on sn alt. As long as he doesn't use meta, it's pretty fair.

[Titus]

I hate the ManateeGal wagon ftr. My money is on Thor and Flea scum.

[Titus]

Sads here PP. Lots of sads.

MM, PP is town.

Mama Bear hates when her kids fight. Can we defeat gods instead of each other?

[Titus]

Another random note for the record, I also think that Titus has a decent shot at being scum. I am simply not going to elaborate any more on this read right now other than "I disvibe her posting votes and scumreads."

Ok, let's chat. I'm not going to ask you to elaborate, but this feels like a pride thing. That's exactly what's going on with PP.

Stop acting based on who agrees with you.

Otherwise, you'll have to draw a new painting with me crying as I smack you over the head with a gavel.

[Titus]

Auro Flea Thor.

Those are the three I want. Enchant is a compromise but I worry that's a language barrier.

[Titus]

Auro Flea Thor.

Those are the three I want. Enchant is a compromise but I worry that's a language barrier.

Not feeling these SRs rn

Why?

[Titus]

The only one I’d really go for there is Flea, and that’s not a preferred vote

I'm trying but literally none of the major pushes are above compromise.

[Titus]

Why are MG and MM town for you

Their genuineness. MG's like here I am. MM' aggressive no fucks given.

[Titus]

Idk how those are town-indicative, those might just be playstyle
What do you think of my point that MM’s belief in her read on me seems a little dilapidated?

Which post?

To be honest, I am a bit distracted today.

[Titus]

Nah, not arrogant. I just wasn't sure if you were working from the assumption that Gamma is scum.

This is kinda why I’m suspicious of MM, some of what she’s posted feels this way but other things don’t entirely line up with it and that disconnect in how I perceive her faith in her read of me feels scum-indicative.

@Titud

Rephrasing here, just to ensure I understand.

Do you feel she's starting from the position that you're scum but then falling out of it at points?

[Titus]

@Gamma, Check out Flea's flail vote. He's a) panicked b) trying to force my reads to be scum in an exact team c) trying to demand my reads be frozen and d) jumping off someone he scumreads that has a wagon near deadline.

[Titus]

To an untrained eye that would probably look like a team guess
also flea uses fae/faer pronouns

I apologize Flea. I'm trying but I keep messing up.

[Titus]

To an untrained eye that would probably look like a team guess
also flea uses fae/faer pronouns

What about the other reasons?

[Titus]

Your reads probably have changed, but to go from "they're not SvS" to "BUDDIEZ!" and to tack on the one person I've been pretty hard on all phase, is interesting.

Now, that's a misrep. I literally just said you're my SRs but you aren't necessarily teamed. Yet, you're acting scared.

Also, if you're hard on Auro, where's your vote?

[Titus]

@Gamma, Check out Flea's flail vote. He's a) panicked b) trying to force my reads to be scum in an exact team c) trying to demand my reads be frozen and d) jumping off someone he scumreads that has a wagon near deadline.

a: why would flea be panicking if faer wagon was basically non-existent rn?
c: I don’t think that’s accurate but a more rational approach would have been to ask questions vs. insta-accusing
d: I feel like I’ve done that before as town -_-

although I see how a+d would add up to being scummy

A) Because I'm largely right and won't vote town.
D) Yes. Alone it's a factor and not damning.

[Titus]

Where do I say I'm hard on Auro?

2103. I just quoted it. You claim you were going after my other two suspects but where's your vote?

[Titus]

Your reads probably have changed, but to go from "they're not SvS" to "BUDDIEZ!" and to tack on the one person I've been pretty hard on all phase, is interesting.

Also, if you're hard on Auro, where's your vote?

Ok so if I've been hard on Auro, who did you declare I was not SvS with?


oh yeah....

that's a misrep.

Huh?

[Titus]

You claim you're hard on Thor and Auro but where's your vote?

[Titus]

Your reads probably have changed, but to go from "they're not SvS" to "BUDDIEZ!" and to tack on the one person I've been pretty hard on all phase, is interesting.

Now, that's a misrep. I literally just said you're my SRs but you aren't necessarily teamed. Yet, you're acting scared.

Also, if you're hard on Auro, where's your vote?

Flea meant fae’s been hard against Thor
So from Flea’s POV it probably looked like you were calling fae scum with someone you’d initially sorted as not SvS with fae and faer strongest SR

But Fae's never voted Thor?

[Titus]

Here is my plan:

night 3 vigilante or vengeful
1-shot vigilante or 2-shot PGO (active)
ascetic cop or bulletproof
draft cop or 1-shot watcher
doctor or roleblocker
universal backup or rolecop
neighborizer or voyeur
jailkeeper or tracker

If we have the setup on the left, this is what I believe we should do:
The night 3 vigilante should be left alive until night 3.
The 1-shot vig should not shoot if scum is voted out on day 1. If town is voted out, they should.
The ascetic cop should check who they think is scum but is unlikely to be voted out the next day.
The draft cop can check whoever they like to see if they have a role.
The doctor should protect a universally townread person.
The universal backup should wait.
The neighbouriser should target someone they think they will get along and solve with.
The Jailkeeper should target their biggest scumread.

If we have the setup on the right:
The vengeful should claim when death is assured and kill a consensus scumread.
The PGO should not activate and save themselves for later.
The bulletproof should enjoy themselves.
The 1-shot watcher should not do anything on the first night.
The roleblocker should target their biggest scumread.
The rolecop should target a scumread they're worried might be a cop.
The voyuer should target a high interest player.
The tracker should target their biggest scumread that won't immediately be voted out.

If we follow all of these actions, we can probably win this game from the sheer amount of roles that will be in town's hands. We just need to make sure foolish things aren't done like vigilantes shooting like heroes or cops checking players that will be voted out the next day anyway.

Strike 3, you're out!
VOTE: Thor

Thor what benefit do you think bringing back mechanical talk at this late stage of D1 brings to the game?
Given the amount of mechanics you've discussed over the day, why not bring this up earlier?
If you have read any of these games previously, how can you be so blatantly unaware of the setup mechanics on multiple fronts?

The timing of this makes me think that Thor and Manatee are aligned, having played with Manatee before she has frozen as scum.
VOTE: Manatee because shifting everyone onto thor is going to suck especially given I am read so low apparently.

[Titus]

It doesn't show in the VCs and you left immediately. So it's not surprising I forgot.

[Titus]

Today’s a mental unhealth day. I’ll try to be around before I sleep or tomorrow but I can’t right now, sorry.

Take care.

[Titus]

So how have you been hard on Thor Flea?

[Titus]

@everyone: vote ManateeGal or tell me how I'm wrong.

Already did.

[Titus]

Like, in what world does town go, "coming up on EoD, I'm the leading wagon, and i have multiple naked votes on me, and my opinion on those naked votes is...



???

The player who realizes their play has been weak.

[Titus]

Also, if she was accepting naked votes because "she knew her play was weak", there is no justification for her to shade Gamma's vote on her.

She's scumhunting. She can be suspicious of some votes and not others. Sure we hate naked votes but not every player needs to.

[Titus]

Also, if she was accepting naked votes because "she knew her play was weak", there is no justification for her to shade Gamma's vote on her.

She's scumhunting. She can be suspicious of some votes and not others. Sure we hate naked votes but not every player needs to.

They do if they're "scumhunting".

You can't give her credit for scumhunting Gamma and a pass for NOT scumhunting naked votes when it all happened in the same post.

You're being disingenuous & bending over backwards to explain away transparently scummy behavior.

Scumhunting varies from player to player.

I'm not "bending over backwards" trying to explain that principle. You've been stubborn and bullheaded. You're picking fights because people don't think like you. First Gamma and now Manatee.

[Titus]

Naked votes are perfectly okay, but a player that scumreads her dropping a vote on her is sus?

GTFO.

@Gamma/House, To be clear, I don't think you're scummy for pushing this.

I don't think Manatee is scum either for FoSing someone pushing a wrong case but townreading the people caught up in it. I'm not even necessarily agreeing with Manatee's theory, especially because I TR Gamma really hard. I can just see it coming from town who knows their play sucked but suspects scum is overselling it.

[Titus]

MG also said she would be here all day. Where did she go?

That's pretty valid.

[Titus]

Blindly accepting naked votes is the exact opposite of scumhunting.

Shading the player that likely had the most acceptable reason for voting her is the exact opposite of scumhunting.

This again is the most acceptable reason TO YOU. There is no universal acceptable reason. Sure, some are common sense and usually obvious to everyone but some are playstyle specific.

Me voting someone for wagon purposes would be acceptable to me. Bee doing the same thing... not so much. This is something we all know to be true. Players scumhunt in their own ways. I've accepted this long ago. Trying to control how the thread sees people is just a recipe for scumreading town and scum sheeping you.

In fact, I think that's why Manatee became a thing at all.

[Titus]

Naked votes are perfectly okay, but a player that scumreads her dropping a vote on her is sus?

GTFO.

@Gamma/House, To be clear, I don't think you're scummy for pushing this.

I don't think Manatee is scum either for FoSing someone pushing a wrong case but townreading the people caught up in it. I'm not even necessarily agreeing with Manatee's theory, especially because I TR Gamma really hard. I can just see it coming from town who knows their play sucked but suspects scum is overselling it.

That seems ass-backwards to me, I’d expect the reasonable approach to be townreading the one pushing but scumreading those following without explaining why adequately
As I wrote this I also realized the shade on me wasn’t even because I suspected her but because I followed Bee. Like, WHAT?

To expand on this, the actual thought process for me when I voted manatee was that it was a sweet spot of someone I suspected and someone I was aware there was momentum for. Up until I voted manatee I was holding my peace as I didn’t want to go on someone just for the momentum to not be there. And following that vote I had suggested Bee could be scum with Manatee because of how her idea of what to do in the case Manatee didn’t respond to pressure like she wanted was to drop it. Honestly that might have been why Manatee opted to shade me.

I think you're trying to fit the facts to your theory rather than your theory to the facts.

I'm not sure how this conversation helps anyone any further but I'm half convinced Manatee can't live until elo because so many active people have it wrong and I'm not getting support on the real scum anyway.

[Titus]

Why presume that this is how ManateeGal scumhunts as town? Is there something about her posting that you see as +town in a vacuum?

It makes sense to me. I don't have to agree with it, but if I can make logical sense of it without a scum agenda, it's likely town. We're all mostly town.

[Titus]

This is kinda random, but would people be amenable to a Bee wagon? I feel like she hasn’t really gotten much pressure this game

No. I'd hammer Manatee for the sake of the thread before I voted Bee.

[Titus]

we can do bee d2

Or we can listen to me D2

[Titus]

I did see Manatee post elsewhere FTR.

[Titus]

don't think we need elitell to ping manatee as scum atp

i've been listening to you, titus. hear you loud and clear. i do think we need to spend more time sorting slots like bee, auro, pp, likely yourself. none of those are names i expect to have a confident read on d1.

I'm just resigned to this day being a waste unless my VCA can turn up something spectacular here.

[Titus]

Bleh. Don't really like any of these wagons. Even Titus, despite what I said earlier.

VOTE: Penguin

Eh. I think actually I will vote either of Enchant or Titus. My cold feet on Titus have defrosted, and on Enchant I think it'll be useful to at least see the flip of one side of that 6/6 wagon.

What caused the change?

Sleeping on this.

[Titus]

@Cat Scratch Fever

Her townreads feel driven by agenda, an example would be this post:

Sads here PP. Lots of sads.

MM, PP is town.

Mama Bear hates when her kids fight. Can we defeat gods instead of each other?

It's less designed to actually convince Miss Midnight that Penguin is town, since it has no reasons, and more designed to pocket both players.

That's a direct shade. It was an opening to let them discuss each other, knowing that I disagreed and supported the both of them.

[Titus]

I feel with have a deepwolf trying to force wagon manipulation.

Really? I feel like the momentum is too much to be inside scum control, which is great.

This could be both. Scum might have enough to rapidly turn wagons but not have enough to get them to hammer.

[Titus]

I think vca will be super juicy later.

I agree. Too many D1 wagons to all be on town, even though I currently TR most of them.

[Titus]

Why would she undermine her own efforts to defend MG by mentioning that she had been posting elsewhere after it was brought up that she had promised to be in thread all day & disappeared?

Because I search for evidence, regardless if it fits my theory. I was coming around to MG needing to die for the gamestste. I wonder why the wagon shifted when I reached that conclusion.

[Titus]

vote count 1.30

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Enchant [5]:

the worst, ManateeGal, Auro, Gamma Emerald, Miss Midnight

Titus [5]:

Flea The Magician, Thor Ragnarok, Cat Scratch Fever, House, Enchant

ManateeGal [1]:

Bee

Miss Midnight [1]:

PenguinPower

Thor Ragnarok [1]

Titus

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

VOTE: Enchant

Enchant wagon has three of my four elimination people and is a counter to me.

[Titus]

Backwards my suspects are voting for me

[Titus]

Backwards my suspects are voting for me

You said on "Enchant" wagon... Nevermind.

Who are they? Well, excluding me obviously.

Auro Flea You Thor

[Titus]

And the backwards was me being sleepy. That's pretty fair you were confused.

[Titus]

I've had moments where I've actually simmered down on a defense because I was like "if this person isn't gonna show up then what am I pleading their case for?"

This. It's inconsistent with my TR on the slot. It's one thing to say I have sucked, people voting me are fine. It's another to just flat out give up. Still give us something even if you think you're the miselimination.

[Titus]

I think vca will be super juicy later.

Press X to doubt

Presses A.

[Titus]

I'll try to check in tonight but it's date night. I may not be back and active before deadline. For that reason, I will claim. I'm the universal backup.

[Titus]

I'll try to check in tonight but it's date night. I may not be back and active before deadline. For that reason, I will claim. I'm the universal backup.

I call BS.

Like hell you got that as the last pick.

I wasn't the last pick. I was in the middle. Repeats came after me.

[Titus]

the draft phase is over.

the order of the draft is as follows:

Bee	5
Miss Midnight	8
Something_Smart	9
Thor Ragnarok	10
Harvey and Haley	69
Titus	9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
the worst	3
Cat Scratch Fever	3
Enchant	4
House	4
Flea The Magician	13
Gamma Emerald	13
PenguinPower	15
ManateeGal	15

[Redacted for sake of brevity]

[Titus]

I think everyone on that Enchant wagon is likely town.

Concur. They at least get a pass until day 2

[Titus]

I am not wanting an MM wagon today.

[Titus]

vote count 1.17

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Enchant [4]:

Bee, Titus, PenguinPower, ManateeGal

Miss Midnight [4]:

Thor Ragnarok, Cat Scratch Fever, Harvey and Haley, the worst

Harvey and Haley [2]:

Flea The Magician, Gamma Emerald

Thor Ragnarok [1]:

Miss Midnight

Cat Scratch Fever [1]:

Enchant

ManateeGal [1]:

House

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

vote count 1.19

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Enchant [4]:

Bee, Titus, PenguinPower, ManateeGal

Gamma Emerald [4]:

Miss Midnight, the worst, Thor Ragnarok, Harvey and Haley

Miss Midnight [3]:

Cat Scratch Fever, House, Gamma Emerald

Harvey and Haley [1]:

Flea The Magician

Cat Scratch Fever [1]:

Enchant

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

vote count 1.24

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Gamma Emerald [6]:

Miss Midnight, the worst, Thor Ragnarok, Auro, Cat Scratch Fever, Flea The Magician

Enchant [6]:

Bee, PenguinPower, ManateeGal, House, Gamma Emerald, Titus

not voting [2]:

Something_Smart, Enchant

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

vote count 1.30

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Enchant [5]:

the worst, ManateeGal, Auro, Gamma Emerald, Miss Midnight

Titus [5]:

Flea The Magician, Thor Ragnarok, Cat Scratch Fever, House, Enchant

ManateeGal [1]:

Bee

Miss Midnight [1]:

PenguinPower

Thor Ragnarok [1]

Titus

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

For me tomorrow

[Titus]

Still want Thor or Auro

[Titus]

I am not wanting an MM wagon today.

I hope that's not because of some soft or crumb.

This is not a game that would matter in.

I'm outed. I don't leave crumbs as a neighbor unless my hood target wanted a result crumbed.

I don't want MM because a) they voted Enchant b) they're a counter to Enchant and c) [weakest] they're high up in the draft.

[Titus]

Based on Thor's mechanical spec 98, 326, 664, and 858, he seemed to have good reason to scumread Enchant based off of numbers alone, but Thor never actually placed a vote on Enchant.

I feel like their mutual townreads on each other were pretty flimsy as well.

Fair. My immediate thought after seeing the flip was that I looked absolutely terrible for it. I think I voted for like 3 counterwagons to Enchant or something like that.

Curse his soft and comfy pockets! His meta defense of me was too sweet.

Here's the problem I have...you ignored my request to vote Enchant when your setup spec supported it.

[Titus]

Weee be back tomorrow!

[Titus]

Thor's tone is greatly improving but I'm not sure if it's townie or not.

[Titus]

I was being disingenuous to see if you'd get defensive.

Happy Cake day

[Titus]

VOTE: Auro

Thor, join me.

[Titus]

@House, I am proud of your emotional growth post ban in game despite the disagreement in our reads. I'm not 100% on you town but like 90%. If you are town, don't completely squash your anger. Controlling it is the best.

[Titus]

Interesting you didn't vote for Miss Midnight when she was your counterwagon and at 4 votes.

Who is this to?

[Titus]

House, I feel you're getting a little tunneled

[Titus]

You've got to be fing kidding me.

[Titus]

Because he hammered without a claim twice?

He could have singlehandedly lost us the game if either of them had been a strong PR. And probably he would have continued to do harm if left alive.

+1

[Titus]

VLA Sept 17th through the 20th

[Titus]

Because he hammered without a claim twice?

He could have singlehandedly lost us the game if either of them had been a strong PR. And probably he would have continued to do harm if left alive.

Seems like an odd kill for scum given that logic!

Agreed. That's why I neighborized him.

[Titus]

We can leash Thor.

[Titus]

I have the power to kill and I'm willing to direct my shot based on what town thinks is best.

Seems more hard than soft.

If only there were a vig role that couldn't shoot till a specific night, that might explain why he hasn't shot yet...

Yeah, I didn't clarify for the chances that scum wastes a roleblock or jailkeep on me

If there is one shot vig (suggested by the flip(, then scum won't block you because they are town. They blocked the nightkill last night.

[Titus]

possible but house was a bad vig shot.

House had terrible reads and his hammers

[Titus]

Not sure either as the flip was n2

[Titus]

What did SS claim?

[Titus]

Unless you care to elucidate on how you know his others reads are bad?

Referring to Miss Midnight and overall conflict we have had.

[Titus]

True, I suppose that's the next logical step...

[Titus]

Shooting someone is the most impactful thing you can do from those roles in my opinion. I thought there was a good chance 1-shot vig would be gone from the 3 above me, so I opted for night 3

I mean, impactful in a good way only if you hit scum.

Night 3 creates a double day or confirms a scum role.

[Titus]

2957 starts with if. That's not knowledge. Why are you trying to argue I know something I don't?

[Titus]

Because it's suggested by the flip supposedly.

Yes. House was anti-town. I don't see why scum kill him.

That's not the same as knowing it.

[Titus]

You mean by leashing his shot?

I just have a hard time seeing a player like Thor pick vig. If he really likes to play mechanically, then there are other PRs that would help him solve the game better.

Yes and understandable.

We just play as normal, but get two wagons. Both claim. If one flips town vig the other (this supposes no claim clear)

[Titus]

Thor could just be vengeful. That would actually explain his play a lot >_>

But okay, I'd be willing to wagon elsewhere for today.

This theory gets disproven if two nightkills n3.

Well you could argue a mafia 1 shot vig who held until night 3 and then shot to save Thor but that defeats the point

[Titus]

VOTE: Auro

[Titus]

So as of right now - no one would make for a bad shot?

No one would make for a

good

shot, except arguably Titus.

Right on D1, Right on D2, counter to scum

Yet I am the sole good vig shot?

[Titus]

You mean by leashing his shot?

What if we leash the shot and it ends up on town?

We get a second elimination that shouldn't be in elo.

[Titus]

Sorry game feels dead. Still think Auro and Flea

[Titus]

Please more people on Auro.

Although I am confident in my reads, lim one of SS Auro and shoot the other?

[Titus]

VLA today. My taxes are due tomorrow. Go self employment.

[Titus]

VLA today. My taxes are due tomorrow. Go self employment.

[Titus]

Also I know I wanted to mention this, but I guess I forgot to. We have potentially 2 cop results floating around, if we don't massclaim today then everyone should hypoclaim cop results so we don't lose them if the cop dies.

Not sure how I feel about this.

[Titus]

I targeted the ascetic cop last night with my action. When I get back from my VLA, I'll be doing a new readslist while trying to incorporate their results and hide their identity.

VLA September 17th-20th

P.S. I know this because the mafia roleblocker is dead, tracker precludes jailkeeper and my action failed.

[Titus]

For now,

VOTE: Flea

[Titus]

Zzz I don’t have a lot to say right now. Was busy most of this weekend. Don’t know how Flea / Auro fits as a team off the top of my head feels wonky but will revisit early game when I remember them scuffling today, for real after work.

Looking forward to it.

[Titus]

I know I’m town
Titus’ role usage seems rather towny
CSF has just not seemed scum at all
Flea and Thor feel a bit like miselim bait after Auro’s flip

How does my role usage seem towny when I failed every hood so far?

Should I out the cop given that I can't find results?

[Titus]

Gamma how have I used my role well

[Titus]

You tried to talk with House, and you’ve been trying to utilize the knowledge of the cop to form reads

That's the plot hole. Why aren't you suspecting me of lying with three neighborize failures?

I have got nothing from my read of the cops ISO. It's to the point where I suspect the cop is scum.

[Titus]

Wait your N1 action failed too?

Targeted the worst.
Targeted house.
Targeted ascetic cop.

[Titus]

The ascetic cop is Bee.

[Titus]

I hope this explains why I’ve played so restrained this game and why I was pissy over not claiming yet with S_S. :>

Is there a point of outing them right now or can I keep waiting a bit? I’ve been trying to see where people would push but this game is dead so I don’t mind getting a little wild, we have a pool of four left so it might just be worth it.

Aren't you worried about dying tho

It actually worries me that you're not worried

Why would bee be? The game is near autowin. If scum keep Bee alive too long, it will be auto. We just eliminate Bee at elo plus one day and confirm all their innos.

[Titus]

Why didn't you strongly suggest Thor was town earlier in D3, why didn't you crumb your clear on me day 4?

[Titus]

Why did you check each of us?

[Titus]

Thor was presumably the N3 check -_-

Why?

Bee listed that they checked Thor and Titus implying Thor was the n2 check.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Flea

I am.

[Titus]

VOTE: CSF

Will go to Flea if needed.

[Titus]

I had the most terrible luck with my neighborizer and am SHOCKED that I wasn't FoSed or eliminated. Checking the dead guy twice. Then claiming to get the ascetic. It's a wonder y'all didn't think I was lying.