Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Andante]

Pagetop and uhh Dwlee, you should claim

[Andante]

otherwise I'm tossing you on E-1 tomorrow, and Enchant can hammer again

[Andante]

ok, fine with me, I thought Dw was the one with 2 votes, + VP would've been 3
VOTE: Dwlee

so in that case, I vote

[Andante]

Idk, the dunn-Ico stuff didn't read fake fake to me since Ico was very ready to push in that direction. I could be wrong of course, but read like Ico was eager to back me whenever I brought Dunn up.

I mean, Dunn's ISO as a whole is pretty weak to draw much of anything from, Icon/Darby had plenty though

[Andante]

I can't wait for VP to have been scum, and Dwlee to flip town, this game is going so well, I just know something insane like that is gonna happen

[Andante]

Just got out of work. This is a lot of pages. Can someone give me a cliff notes so I can still be active before I read?

I know what you may read from me... I currently think you're town, so just ignore anything where I say you're not town, and all is good

[Andante]

also, I will not be voting enchant today, After reading Darby/Icon, I think there's enough there that says Enchant isn't a partner

[Andante]

lol me today:
VP MAF
ehhh VP town, uhhh Dwlee Maf!
ok VP is definitely Maf!!
ehhh VP is probably town
"Don't vote Dwlee!! Dwlee town!!!"
VP maf!!
actually, no, VP is most likely town, I don't think VP can be maf.
Vote Dwlee

[Andante]

also, I will not be voting enchant today, After reading Darby/Icon, I think there's enough there that says Enchant isn't a partner

Interesting. What did you see differently than Toog and myself?

lol me today:
VP MAF
ehhh VP town, uhhh Dwlee Maf!
ok VP is definitely Maf!!
ehhh VP is probably town
"Don't vote Dwlee!! Dwlee town!!!"
VP maf!!
actually, no, VP is most likely town, I don't think VP can be maf.
Vote Dwlee

Um. For real? Lol

I quoted exactly what it was recently, it was something Darby or Icon said that I don't think would be said to a partner

and yeah, my reads all game have been wild, but today... pshhh I think Darby/Icon ISO makes VP town, but Pooky/Skitter still sr, so I'm not completely taking VP off the block, just, I'm not voting VP today

[Andante]

Goooood night everyone, especially andante

AWWW GOOD NIGHT TO YOU TOO!!! Well... GOOD MORNING NOW!!!

[Andante]

I am conflicted now...

[Andante]

I wanna

VOTE: Toogaloo

but like, there's not just 1 left... ughhh

[Andante]

I'm not going to bastardize the game, sadly, but I

am

confirmed town by virtue of just being in the game.

I plan on coasting for a bit until I am up to speed.

lol Toogaloo's first post

[Andante]

VOTE: darby

No mention of darby ANYWHERE in Toog's posts, yet votes Darby after Darby is hammered? This feels worse than just not voting to me tbh

[Andante]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

"I did an ISO over 2 whole nights, yet I have no posts to bring back to yall"

Yeah I looked at darby and icon's Iso yesterday, took like 5 minutes... feels like scum that's trying to be all "look how much work I'm doing" but if Toog really looked at the ISO to find scum, there would be some sort of takeaway, at least a reference to certain posts

[Andante]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

It's the way ico and darby handled Enchant.

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I'm not sure how else to tell you that the associatives between both parts of the flipped scum fell like they indicate Enchant as a partner than an adversary.

This is what should've been said with the "I spent so long ISOing" not after someone pushed back about it. and even in this response, I feel like specific posts should've been referenced, cause the way they're describing it, feels like Toog pushing a 3rd partner based on the 1st partner.

The ONLY thing toog has done this game is push Enchant, and the reasons aren't too bad, but if I had to guess, Enchant would be Toog's partner which is why Toog is so confident about it, and only adresses Enchant being scum, no TRs, just Enchant scum

[Andante]

Town:
VP
F&G
SA

PoE:
Enchant
Andante
Bingle
Dwlee

Of those PoE, I lean dwlee as more than likely town.

Enchant feels obvious, and I'm frustrated that everyone else has their own agenda, and is ignoring Enchant.

Puts VP as town, never says why, as the rest of us aren't TRing VP, but VP is so active, Toog doesn't wanna draw attention from a slot that talks a lot, that's why VP F&G and SA are Town. 2 people who talk a lot/gamesolve, and a 3rd who writes giant paragraphs, that Toog doesn't want to mess with. Yet tossed me in the PoE? lol ok whatever, it's just like, the ISO is only 17 posts, it ONLY adresses Enchant. Like, Toog pushed F&G, was immediately met with "Why are we scum?" from F&G, then Toog never calls them scum again. This is textbook scum coasting, I can't wait for Toog to come back today and go "sorry so far behind. no reads"

[Andante]

oops hit submit...

"Enchant feels obvious" what? cause enchant is your partner and you know enchant is scum? cause I guarantee you, Toogeloo is not looking at this game from a town pov, like as scum, I'll feel like my partners are way more obvious than they are, which is I think what's happening with Toog

[Andante]

If i was maf I would put Innocent Child, Jailkeeper and Tracker. More optimal i think.

lolno
Unless you have v high faith in your ability to hunt down TPR before you get whittled down to one I think IC vig cop is pretty much always optimal

Adding Vig is suicide.

but did Enchant add vig and say this? Like, that's what I genuinely don't get, why did maf give town vig? makes 0 sense to me lmao

[Andante]

Imo i will be spectical about all claims.

It's next to impossible to counterclaim. So Vig claim in game without Vig is practically impossible to caught without all PR claims.

more mention of a vig? trying to figure out who vig is maybe?

[Andante]

Btw NM have only 3 posts but somehow managing to be more active than often.

NM what you think about Dunn? I value your mind.

up till this, it's a lot of just talking to dats/gamma and joking about SA's name, no mention of Dunn prior to this from Enchant, kinda convenient to ask NM, but like, if you're talking to dats/gamma why not ask either of them? oh... cause you don't want a legit answer.

[Andante]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace. Sleeper scum in the actives.

Have you never played a game where I was town before?

"i always like that as town"

We don't do that here.

Dunn what your play as town?

Unpopylar opinion, no scum has wagoned today otherwise i would be on chopping block already.

Can you walk me through this? It sounds like you're saying scum have spread their votes around otherwise they'd be voting you, is that right?

No-no i meant they are cool or passive as fuck.

Best way to divert attention is push someone else, but considering they are not pushing me (ez target) or you (nullread which "Townreaded person suggesting") tells one of these:
1. I am Mafia (I am not)
2. You are mafia (Idk about this)
3. Both (lol no)
4. Both town, but mafia so cool with wagons they don't need miselims.

Ego, mafia doesh't feel endangered or you are mafia or i suck at this game, can we speedkill someone already

Just reading the single Dunn interaction, feels like talking to a partner/not taking it seriously/trying to go anywhere with it.

1492 and 1500 are interesting to me lmao, Enchant has put more effort into "why am I not being voted" than pushing any SR

[Andante]

Final answer, it's Toog and Enchant

[Andante]

I see NOTHING in the dunn/Toog/Enchant ISOs to convince me otherwise

[Andante]

after prob Toog is literally just gonna show up, say there's too much to read, and that's it, watch

[Andante]

VOTE: Enchant here I'll join this wagon for today

[Andante]

andante you change your mind a lot lol
i think dueling vp and dwlee wagons would be great

~ skitter

yeahhhh lol but like, just look at Toog(Dunn) and Enchant, I really do think that's the team

[Andante]

andante you change your mind a lot lol
i think dueling vp and dwlee wagons would be great

~ skitter

You seem very concerned with enchant not getting run up. Why's that?

You seem to want to challenge everything F&G say? Have you not seen me be "confident" in a million different things the past 24 hours??

[Andante]

however, unless we wanna ego vote out VP (or whatever it's called) the team is simply Toog and Enchant

[Andante]

I was laughing at 3055 lol it didn't come off as "very concerned"

[Andante]

Skitter, my only issue now though, is I don't think you or pooky sr enchant/toog (dun) and that's where I want to vote lol

[Andante]

OMG OMG OMG YALL!!! HEAR ME OUT!!! I THINK MY SOLVE IS RIGHT!!!

Wait how you tied me and Toog

What you smok

however, unless we wanna ego vote out VP (or whatever it's called) the team is simply Toog and Enchant

Ooo... Interesting solve.

This is their reaction to me calling them partnered... I THINK I FINALLY GOT IT RIGHT!!!!!

[Andante]

Like, nothing saying I'm wrong on something, just kinda a "oh.. haha how'd you find us?" no "oh I think X could be scum, but I'm not" cause remember, Toog came into D3 pushing for an enchant lim, here I'm saying Enchant maf, and it's "interesting solve" guys, I seriously think we have something here

[Andante]

I mean, yall are both town, so we want Enchant today or Toogeloo today?

[Andante]

Toog it is then!

VOTE: Toogeloo

the team is toog and enchant. notice how both want nothing to do with VP vs Dwlee vs F&G? yeah.. cause it's scum letting town fight

[Andante]

Toog talked only because of the prod, and I'm sure we have to wait till next prod for toog to talk again, and I'm quite sure toog has no intent to try and give reads, especially since I got them and their partner

[Andante]

I just wish this town vs town stuff could stop for 1 second, and people could actually think about enchant and toog being partnered.

[Andante]

day 3? cause to them it's scummy their partner went "I TR gamma" then hammered gamma

[Andante]

Like, if you think about it, as soon as we went "scum enchant wouldn't hammer like that" enchant started coasting, and has been coasting since

[Andante]

Toog backed off on the push too likely for the same reason, like, town is destroying itself, F&G/VP/Dwlee are all locked against each other right now, maf has no incentive to jump in, Toog got forced to with the prod, and Enchant laughing at my read shows enchant is following along and just not talking (scum indicative)

[Andante]

why would you be confirmed town?

[Andante]

I claim Mafia Goon

If you're town, how is this even trying?

[Andante]

skitter, I think I'm lost,

I have a feeling I'm not right on enchant/toog, but both of them are literally playing against town right now
VP isn't really solving, just trying to fight everyone and "wants everyone's reads"
Dwlee... idk they're funny

I just hate how all game Toog has been all "I'm clear" and done nothing, Enchant just claimed goon???
VP/Toog/Enchant are actively playing against town. At least 1 in that would be town, idk I'm just so confused cause all signs point to a enchant/toog team, but why would both scum act like this??

[Andante]

No, really, i unserstand probably scumreading me, or Toog, BUT BOTH IS SOMETHING OUTRAGEOUS.

It's so twisted, it's inpossible.

I can't tell if I'm right and this is trying to mock me or what. I've had other team reads, you had no reaction to that, what makes me SRing Enchant and Toog so different?

[Andante]

If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

i mean if they flip town do u accept being the mylo flip tom?

~ skitter

I thought you were talking to ducky for a minute there and got real confused.

My gamestate read, at the moment, is that we’re in a 1 in 1 out scum in {VP/DW/Andante/FG} scenario. There was just too much resistance for too long to looking outside of it for me to think that there are two scum in there actively, unless the team is specifically Andante/Dwlee and their goal was to flip FG and VP sequentially. There are a couple little troubling things that won’t let me take that entirely off of the table, but given Andantes play overall and how everything seems to be shaking, I don’t put much credence into it.

If you're gonna keep calling me maf, I'm just gonna vote you lol

[Andante]

I mean, I'd be down to flip VP and actually get to play the game D4, there's a decent chance VP flips scum too, Enchant is making me doubt Enchant scum, Toog is making me more certain of Toog scum, and like, if people I trust are saying VP, I think we probably get VP, cause say we follow my ideas, we lim a town. back to everyone SRing VP, so I'd rather get VP today than later

[Andante]

VOTE: VP
I don't even remember where my vote is half the time lmaooo

ehhh the claiming goon thing, I see no point in doing it as town, like I didn't see anyone even ask Enchant to claim, but meh

[Andante]

I'm kinda interested in VP not even caring about my vote on him anymore, like, just ignoring me and only focussed on F&G

[Andante]

aghhhh why is it so easy to find scum sometimes and other times not. Like, half the people I've voted I'm like "Oh no, I'm gonna feel so bad if you flip town"

UNVOTE:

I'm so unsure lol

[Andante]

well if you're town then yeah I'm gonna feel bad cause a part of me believes you're town

[Andante]

why are people suddenly trying to rush a hammer?

[Andante]

there's 8 days left... so it's not deadline? also these next 2 weeks are super shaky for me for how active I can be, thus I was trying to team solve the past 2 days, so at this point, town should TR me and I'll probably be taking more of a back seat (I'm sure all yall will be thrilled)

[Andante]

Andante just isn't scum here dude how many times do I need to repeat this

I agree that Andante isn't scum unless you're also scum, so... You repeating that is a waste of time.

I also agree that Andante isn't scum

[Andante]

see, I refuse to believe all the coasters are town though, VP and Dwlee as maf... together... ehhh I tr Dwlee over VP, but now I'm not gonna be a reliable Dwlee reader, they had me laughing, I tr fun people so much easier lol

[Andante]

VP Baltar has a history of fighting me, he does it every game we play together.

so if that's the case, VP trying to do it here would be maf mimicking town play as the most likely option?
ughhh maybe ignore me, and I should shut up, I know I'm not helping right now, ultimately I'll probably just vote whoever yall vote, in a bit I'm gonna figure out why I think VP town though, then yeah that's it, it's not a strong TR, but part of me is screaming VP town, but I'm trash at reads lmao

[Andante]

me trying to read/make any sense of this thread right now... I'm at a huge level of uncertainty with my thoughts, doubting my reading ability, I know I will usually have the right reads at 1 point, but then end on wrong reads, aghhh it literally feels like I'm drunk, as I try to thing about what makes sense, and I'm not even drunk right now!!! ughhh I'm trying... I wanna be helpful.. everyone going "vote me" "I'm maf" and selfvoting.. like, none of that helps

[Andante]

me trying to read/make any sense of this thread right now... I'm at a huge level of uncertainty with my thoughts, doubting my reading ability, I know I will usually have the right reads at 1 point, but then end on wrong reads, aghhh it literally feels like I'm drunk, as I try to thing about what makes sense, and I'm not even drunk right now!!! ughhh I'm trying... I wanna be helpful.. everyone going "vote me" "I'm maf" and selfvoting.. like, none of that helps

The bit I'm interested in is why VP is pushing me specifically to vote him instead of looking to confirm if I'm willing to bus my supposed partner.

I could be so wrong, but to me, VP sounds like he's just done with all the "VP is maf" "VP is maf" and so he's like "fine, just vote me" which like, I've definitely hit points as town where I'm like "ok, not worth my time, whatever. I'm done" maf tends to fight till the end a lot more often.

idk I'm out of it, probably not a good idea to interact with me right now lol

[Andante]

why not trust skitter?

[Andante]

both of us have read your entire iso and neither of us understands why you think we r scum

wow. that is some serious dedication.

Dwlee, why exactly is F&G scum?

[Andante]

cause Dwlee vs F&G I just wrote off as some misunderstanding, and I moved on lol

[Andante]

why not trust skitter?

They were wrong about Gamma and are wrong about me. Seems good enough reason for someone to make their own analysis of the game.

I think I had way more passion behind the gamma flip though? So I'd be wrong about Gamma. Town is allowed to have wrong reads

[Andante]

Andante you should also try to read my posts

I do!!!

[Andante]

D1 Dwlee is extremely scummy lol

[Andante]

Pooky are you bussing VP. And tell the truth

Dwlee SRs F&G cause they're bussing VP... That's the best I got

[Andante]

no reasoning given for what makes it a bus, just that VP is being bussed

[Andante]

it's actually wild anyone can read my fight with vp baltar and come to the conclusion i'm bussing him

or like, if it's a bus, vote VP and move on? I read you and VP as 2 town just going at it, and skimmed, didn't really read any of it

[Andante]

why are we playing 20 questins to find out why you scumread us?

~ skitter

EXACTLY MY THOUGHT AS I SEE DWLEE EXPLAINING like, I found the root "reason" but there's no reasoning with it, so idk what Dwlee expects from any of us, especially me when I've been on my own in Toog/Enchant world today

[Andante]

Ctrl+f chainsaw to find stuff, I'm on mobile

I see this word so many times, yall kept using it, wtf is chainsaw? just mindlessly tunneling?

[Andante]

20 questions for a top SR is putting Dwlee as scummier than VP in my books, like, if F&G is your top SR, shouldn't you convince us to vote them?

[Andante]

lol 20 pages later, we finally discover the reason 2 people have been going back and forth

[Andante]

Just vote me or enchant. This is ridiculous to have another draw out 10 pages of FG & dwlee saying the same things they already said.

lmaoooo I just pulled this game back up, and was like "around and around they go again"

[Andante]

Wow some people read

I dont

[Andante]

I see this word so many times, yall kept using it, wtf is chainsaw?

First of all, chainsaw defense isn't actually being used completely correctly in this game as a term.

It is specifically when one scum attacks another player for pushing their buddy while specifically avoiding calling the player being pushed town.

It's old. Like Tarhalindur tells old, and I don't think I've ever seen it used to catch an experienced scum player. It's the kind of thing you see rarely in a newbie.

Pooky here was using it as a more generalized "Scum is pushing someone for pushing someone else" which is very much a boring argument and not truly what the chainsaw defense is.

ahhh ok thank you!! I'm like, I've played maf a lot, but have literally never seen that term, yet it's all people can talk about, but I can see why it's being thrown around so much right now

[Andante]

F&G is the only one I've seen give actual reasoning, everyone else is like "F&G IS BUSSING!!!" like, idk, this is starting to feel very hostile, and I don't like angry play :/

[Andante]

why Enchant?

[Andante]

Good reason. I like that

[Andante]

Toog, you never answered why you're confirmed town

[Andante]

I tr too many people

[Andante]

idk

Was angry on myself.

Angry at yourself about what?

Well i personally responsibly for killing Gamma and very possible myself.
Kinda.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

You're just still so so angry at that hammer? So angry you don't wanna try and win for Gamma, but instead you're like "I'll take the lim next" ???

[Andante]

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Andante]

I should have seen that coming

what do you mean by this?

[Andante]

I'm not really convinced VP flips maf, but like, I could see it, it's not out of the picture, but I'm not mega convinced idk, I just see it as like, if we don't get VP here, we're gonna repeat all this and get VP D4, so I'd rather just end that all today

[Andante]

rng probably has better odds at finding scum than me, so I'll shut up and let yall do you, and uhhh yeah idk

[Andante]

nah enchant is town

[Andante]

nah enchant is town

Let's say it is two town run up today. Who is scum? I just have a hard time seeing why there'd be a hard split today if we are both town. Wouldn't scum be happy with either outcome if that were true?

I mean, I've been thinking about Bingle scum all day, this divide is just due to idk

[Andante]

Toog and yourself would technically still be on the table. Andante as well.

Ooooh I’m still on the table? nice. you know, the fact you don’t TR me actually makes me ok voting you, and Dwlee had a line I SR recently, so I may be late to the game, but I can definitely see a VP/Dwlee team

[Andante]

what if the mafia promise to not kill anyone tonight? let us just lim until we get it right

[Andante]

If F&G is down, I'd lim Bingle

[Andante]

ok, not limming bingle. keeping my vote on VP

[Andante]

Dwlee said something that made me suspicious of them, back when I wasn't talking (maybe me not talking is a good thing lol) I'll find it and explain

[Andante]

As a partial reset: is anyone willing to vote SA here? I think if F&G is town, then enchant could be town, and then I think SA's push on them for the scum claim is extremely shallow

I'd bet the game on at least one scum in FG/Enchant/SA atp

Okay who do you think can't be paired with SA other than Bingle

Okay SA probably only scum with FG ?

Idk, I could be overthinking it, but the way Dwlee brought up "wanna vote SA" felt pretty odd to me, like I was TRing SA a bunch, the timing of Dwlee bringing it up felt like some kinda distraction? idk how to explain, the whole "I don't think far enough ahead for a possible partner"
the 3 names with "at least one scum" ehhh I tr all 3 of those names at the moment

there's something just off to me, "is anyone willing to vote SA here?" sounds like Dwlee is trying to take initiative in controlling town, directing our votes to a town, and like, we have 0 benefit to limming SA here, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, unless you've thought ahead to partner stuff

[Andante]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Andante]

hahahaha I'm the pro scum here

Bingle/Dwlee is my vote for the team

[Andante]

Dwlee is almost assuredly town, if F&G hammers, I'm absolutely certain both scum will have been on dwlee as well.

Enchant, Bingle, Andante, F&G. There are two scum in here.

here's what I don't like, you say posts like this, no explanation for your thoughts, and when I go "toog is probably scum" you're all "I'm confirmed clear!!!" and never answered my "why are you confirmed clear" your "reads" here are actually so bad, like, you're just taking the names everyone is throwing around and calling that your read, but calling Dwlee town, yet not trying to convince anyone to not vote Dwlee, and not trying to push a wagon to your SRs

[Andante]

keeping my vote on Dwlee. yall are more than welcome to just end day whenever, I'm kinda busy right now irl, so yeah, I don't see myself changing. SA's "I only vote for the claimed scum" and Toog's pretending to be clear things are honestly just stupid annoying to me, ifthisisn't hammered by tomorrow I'm probably flipping to Toog and not moving

[Andante]

Toog just keeps casually calling me mafia, and I'm not about it

[Andante]

and now I go back to working on stuff

[Andante]

A replacement for 3500 posts... I'm tempted to just flip that slot

[Andante]

cause I guarantee you I'm not gonna like another person going "I haven't read yet" we have enough of those here... idk what my reads even are anymore, but I do know whoever becomes bingle isn't gonna be super helpful, and will likely not make me TR the slot, like, I don't really sr bingle, but I don't tr bingle, idk, I would be down to flip that slot though ifothers wanted to

[Andante]

A replacement for 3500 posts... I'm tempted to just flip that slot

I'm with you, but FG will never go along with it

I literally only see a new person doing more harm for that slot than good

[Andante]

Pagetop and post 3500!!!

[Andante]

VOTE: Bingle

whatever, I'm doing it

[Andante]

do you not wanna do that? cause I can vote elsewhere, I just figured it'd save someone 3500 posts

[Andante]

told yall. I'm down to lim the slot lol

[Andante]

Anyone else getting bad vibes from the Bingle replacement?

[Andante]

dumb question, if we don’t reach the number for a lim, is it a no lim?

[Andante]

oops hit send, or is it majority is limmed?

[Andante]

maf who’s gonna make no effort to try cause of how many pages there are. we should lim Looker just saying