open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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ye. I tried top, but that was a no go, too many, went for draft instead, tbh all I even remember from you this game for why I've been maf all game has been cause I'm top of draftIn post 3693, Something_Smart wrote:Did you just search my 181-post ISO for the word "draft" and find 9 examples to prove that I do nothing but talk about the draft-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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yeah what about it? I thought it was funny I was a known pr? it's why I was claiming bp on day 1 lol like I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to say to this, like, not taking into acount anything serious I've said? ok, and? Don't like posts I thought were funny/was having fun? ok.. shading you off mena? I mean, I don't exactly tr you, nothing you've done couldn't be easily replicated by scum! you, like idk, I also don't sr you enough to tunnel you yet, but you're definitely a lot different from the fish game so mehh, and I can definitely see town you being like you are I guess? idk, I'm not sorting you now, and I mean, ideally we're trying to solve for a scum here, not this back and forth whateverIn post 3640, Something_Smart wrote:
Top draft is decently correlated with being scum, her play has done nothing to shake me off of that, scum presumably made two kills and neither was aimed at the top 3 (which I believe is fairly rare? might be worth checking the stats there), she's been playing up how she is a known PR and how much that matters and then she claims under basically zero pressure with zero info, her reaction to the double kill was pretty awkward and may have betrayed knowledge that it was a scum vig, and now she's shading me off of Mena associatives rather than push me directly which may be to avoid OMGUS accusations.In post 3629, Datisi wrote:okay, *why*-
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what did you learn from your review?In post 3716, northsidegal wrote:sorry for the absence, reviewing time-
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In post 49, Mare wrote:I town.Like, I don't recall much actually from mare, and since I learned who she is, I don't tr the self vote thing where she got mad selfed, and that was that. everyone called her town for it, uhhh I don't think she's actually done much this game
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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like, town or maf, I'd believe this was true, half the time when I'm maf I'll forget to do a night action, it's usually on my partners to submit whatever, idk if it's a common thing, like, I forget as maf, never as town, town is like, I instantly send something inIn post 3474, Mare wrote:It feels physically impossible to care about this game for some reason and also I forgot to neighborize someone so I’m in anti-fun mode.-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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I'm probably gonna get roasted for something said, but like, I do think mare is maf, partners? I couldn't tell you right now, I'm drunk, and for some reason thought it'd be a good idea to give some honest thoughts here, like, it's not that Mare has done nothing, it's like, I feel like there's minimal actual content there, lots of fluffy posts, pushing cakez cause lols? like that's the most game related I could really find. I think I wanna look outside those who have been pretty active lately, like, it's much easier for maf to hide in the shadows. Again, the 2 most active people died, something tells me at least 2/3 of these maf prefer silence-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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the 2 separate "I town" posts.. like I think when I'm maf I'll say "I'm town" a million times, as if I'm trying to convince myself that I am in fact town, idk if it's a thing others do too, no freaking way I read other games right now for anyone. I'll probably revisit Mare tomorrow, but decided I had to just put this read out there. can't believe I actually went through her ISO for yall... fam I have a terrible headache, had it before a drink, so now I'm half out of it, headache, exhausted, will probably be fine tomorrow lol been a long day actually. fun fact I took a long nap and feel exactly the same. also my reads this game are trash, but this Mare read... I can feel it in my bones. it's right. Mare is mafia!-
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NO! SKITTER! NO!! I'm not mafIn post 3723, skitter30 wrote:I think i'm townreading scum-
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Thanks <3In post 3727, skitter30 wrote:I dont think the full scumteam is in you, nsg, catboi, cakez
And the game is still kinda and dead and still without wagons ... makes me think scum are either v complacenr or under the radar
Feel better andante <3
Pedit that wasnt abt u, ur one of the reads i'm *not* questioning rn
lol ok cool! I was like, FAM...
I think scum is very under the radar, this entire day 2 has been like me dats ss and you talking, others poke their head in probably just to avoid prod timer, then dissapear, thus I've been trying to get dats/ss to like actually work with me for a second on sorting half the table
I really do think cakez town, and if you = alyssa
alyssa,nsg,cat... I probably wouldn't disagree with a single one of them being maf, but I'm not too sure on that being the team lol
I need to read midwaybear, I have no notes there, my notes say I sr nsg and mare for posts like 700-800... long ago. these are old notes lol-
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D2 is way slower than D1 wasIn post 3731, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Like just from what I heard about how day one went, that's a very bad sign for how the game realistically is going to play out from here
Whenever day ones are lethargic and just go down to the wire as the only real content, that generally gives town not enough info to properly PoE the game down late
It's kinda tricky to solve this without somehow fixing the lethargy itself and idk how to do that here atm-
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dats voting me with SS for the tracker claim had me going like "what the heck are you doing?" but I'm not dealing with dats right now, I SR mena more, and I'm just going with pooky and dats aren't scum together, even though they very well could beIn post 3730, skitter30 wrote:I am requestioning dats and mare now tho-
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you have a reason? or is it just cause it's funny?In post 3745, Mare wrote:Cakez wagon Cakez wagon Cakez wagon.-
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fun, you didn't want to jump in when dats/ss were roasting me for claiming? you're more than welcome to jump into stuff like that...In post 3747, Mare wrote:I'm like always "around" but choose not to post often.-
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I know, and one of your early reasonings was like "it's funny" or something, so I was just wondering if there's actually something there that you sr, and like a reason we should get cakeIn post 3749, Mare wrote:
I've been trying to kill Cakez literally all game.In post 3748, Andante wrote:
you have a reason? or is it just cause it's funny?In post 3745, Mare wrote:Cakez wagon Cakez wagon Cakez wagon.-
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well this makes me feel better for going "he's pushing me as tracker right now?? probably town"In post 3778, catboi wrote:I finally actually took a dive into something_smart's holiday dance party ISO and I have to admit the confidence with which he's pushing his Andante read in the face of consensus here isn't really like his scumgame at all. I felt he was mostly treading water and advancing soft paranoia cases on people, having a few correct townreads, not really pushing aggressively at all. I saw some of that in his day 1 here but what he's doing now is very different to that. He spends time doing fake analysis stuff going over pairing the basically fill space and look like he's solving (good trick, btw). Here he has...actual scumreads. I guess part of that was why I took issue with skitter's read on him because I don't think him townreading sleepless is at all unlike something he'd do as scum and that's a weird basis for a read in general but looking at the rest of his play I'm actually coming around to him being town, god help me.-
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sounds like my kind of scumread!!!In post 3784, Mare wrote:I think the scumreads there are kind of just the lazy low content ones.-
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probably, but others had to flip scum first before I went there, did we not see my top 2 SRs flip town? 1 TR flipped town, so that's cool.. 33% accuracy on reads...In post 3785, catboi wrote:
I'm pretty sure you literally had him in a solveIn post 3783, Andante wrote:uhhh probably? but I know he definitely wasn't a top sr-
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that solve??? no WAY skitter is maf, possibly cakez, but skitter isn'tIn post 3789, Mare wrote:My yolo-whatever solve is something stupid like skitter/Andante/Cakez all doing a ring of protection around one another alleviating pressure.-
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uhh there's plenty of consistency, I just don't say exactly every thought lolIn post 3796, Mare wrote:You have little internal consistency in the way you think about things and jump from one statement to another.-
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So I'm bored as heck, headache is gone, guess I'm casing nsg here, cause like, no one is doing anything, and there's probably a reason we want to pressure nsg
^Reading this from nsg makes me feel like maf heavily discussed numbers, and then after seeing draft heavily discussed roles and who'd probably claim what, like, this comment feels more like a maf comment than a town comment to me. So that would likely make SS town, and nsg maf jumping in like "ah yes, I can talk numbers too!! I am knowledgable! cause we just talked a lot about numbers in maf chat"In post 902, northsidegal wrote:
that seems like it could be the position of "pick a high number to avoid the single digit collisions but still end up near the top". i imagine the prototypical scumteam draft is either all three low or two low one hedge like that, so post-hoc i can see how it makes senseIn post 842, Something_Smart wrote:Actually I kinda want to go back and look at the numbers selected by scum in the 5th position because that feels like not a coincidence.
^ I'm not even sure what this is saying, but it's a weird comment, like I remember the tell thing that gets brought up later, along with this giant meta dive thing for why I'm town. Like, I don't think it was even doubted that I was town thus far, so maf loses nothing by towncasing a universal tr, I'll come back to this thought in a few posts.In post 903, northsidegal wrote:i realize that this is like a weird cryptic comment, but andante if you are town this game then i look forward to playing with you as scum - i believe there's a tell that might work on you, and it's one of my favorite tells to use.
^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"In post 1135, northsidegal wrote:I mean like all of this makes sense to me, or at least I understand her
Spoiler:
Honestly it almost seems like a like funhouse mirror version of the conversation we were having. You're arguing that some feeling she has is nai and she's saying it isn't, sort of like what I was saying to you.
Also it's just weird to me to see you say "you're scumreading him for something nai" when she explicitly says she's talking about a feeling and not just like catching up or whatever
^ more "I know she's town" but nothing to actually convince anyoneIn post 1136, northsidegal wrote:Also given new information about who mare is this doesn't seem to resemble what I know of her scumplay
"I'm catching up, but I'm not gonna share much that I learn from this catch up"In post 1568, northsidegal wrote:back and catching up sorry, anyone want to get my super hot takes on things as i'm reading up
^ "2 posts after I told yall I'm catching up, I tell you how I meta dived on Andante, and I'll talk about this tell I learned than means andante is town!" like, nsg seems to fill space by talking about me, when a read on me day 1, didn't really matter... I think it's just to fill space, and "look busy" tbhIn post 1570, northsidegal wrote:having done a bit of meta diving my townread on andante has been strengthened and i now actually think that flow trap is probably town (despite having leaned towards him being scum after reading through the thread but before doing the meta dive).
i used to be of the opinion (and i suppose that i still am) that you should sort of keep some meta tells close to the chest so that you can re-use them later or people don't adapt to them, but i don't think that i play enough for this to still be relevant for me. plus, i probably need something to actually talk about anyways rather than just giving some boring reads and then dipping out.
one thing that stood out to me a lot was andante's very strong reaction not even to being voted, but to even the insinuation that she might not be town.
Spoiler:
like i said in that post, i felt like this was a surprising or extreme reaction in proportion to the posts that i had made, but i didn't immediately know how to interpret it: as some kind of scum sensitivity to her position as a consensus townread being questioned, or as a genuine example of this one meta trait that would indicate that she's town. having done a little bit of meta review, i think that it's more likely to be the latter. the "meta trait" is this (datisi might actually remember this one, i just now realized that i brought this up in that white flag game that i played horribly in) – certain people may tend not to get eliminated as town very often. often, the type of people who tend not to get eliminated as town are the ones who really dig their heels in and fighta lotwhen that becomes a possibility for them as town. sometimes you can tell that these kinds of players are scum because, when being pushed for elimination, they don't fight as hard as they typically do as town – i first learned about this tell when nachomamma used it in a bombshell case on myself actually, because i was getting pushed but didn't really seem to have a lot of heart in fighting it.
based on what i saw of andante's other games, my estimation is that the reaction that she had in this game to what i was saying is more likely to be an example of that sort of strong desire to not be eliminated as town than it is some kind of scum reaction. i guess i'm sort of wasting my breath here anyways because nobody really seems to disagree that she's town?? i don't know, i just actually like this tell a lot, it's fun to talk about and i'm now the mafia equivalent of an old person who just wants to tell people stories from their past so just let me have this
^ "Now for my read on a non universal tr, I'm gonna use like no words to call them town" like, I just don't like how I think I (Andante) am the only one NSG explains a read on, like, yeah, I'm typically an easy read sure. I had like no heat day 1, I don't think anyone was considering me for the chopping block, yet giant cases on me as to why I'm town?? looking back, it feels super unnecessary.In post 1571, northsidegal wrote:as for flow trap i'll try to be a bit less wordy and just get to the point (and also i guess keep the amount i say proportional to my degree of confidence?), it seems like he has more fun as town and is more serious as scum and this game seems to match the former rather than the latter.
^ I already think scum!NSG earlier slipped that SS was town, so maf here going "yeah SS town, but I'm not commiting to a read till later" like honestly, SS's day 1, I SRed most of it, his day 2 has been a lot better, but "I can't tr someone off this reasoning that I know they're town... so I'm giving a later read" ehhhh I think I'm being sold on the idea NSG is maf hereIn post 1572, northsidegal wrote:i agree with the logic that SS as scum would be trying more to look towny and it matches my memory of playing against (and losing against) him as scum, but at the same time it feels bad to actually put someone down as town based on that reasoning. so i guess i can just continue putting the problem of reading him off
ehhh guess I don't like that "here's a readslist, but I'm not really explaining my midway SR, told you why I TRed people"In post 1573, northsidegal wrote:i guess i'm somewhere around here
{nsg}
{andante, flow}
{IV, mare, SS}
{skitter, cakez, SA, pooky, faker, datisi} - null
{midway}
i predict that i will probably scumread sleepless assassin after he makes his big post. really don't know how to feel about datisi – i see all of the things that people are prodding him over and i see his responses and and i understand his responses completely and despite maybe seeming unlikely on the surface i feel like i relate to how all of them could be genuine... but i don't know if that makes him town or just means that the things people are pushing him for aren't actually scummy. in other words, i don't really read his posts as towny, but none of the reasons people seem to be giving or talking about for him being scum really resonate with me.
midway still seems scummy but i'm unsatisfied voting there with such a large null pool to sort.
So if I had to guess, NSG maf, did not TR a partner, TRed the "universal TRs" like, I kept calling flow town cause why not, looking at NSG's "reads" it's like "Oh, Andante TRs flow? ok, yeah flow is town" doesn't seem to question flow like at all, so NSG is likely maf, not with flow, knows flow town, thought flow was obv town. cause if flow was a partner, there's no way NSG wouldn't be like "uhhh actually I sr flow" so that leaves NSG as partners with Skitter/Cakez/Pooky/Dats/midway, and honestly, that's probably not far off, like, I TR skitter, taking her out. Maf is NSG and 2/3 are in Cakez/Pooky(Mena)/Dats/Midway, that's a pool I'd believe...-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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ooh catboi got forgotten, not 100% sure how to interpret that, but no way maf forgets their partner, so I'm still sold on NSG + 2 of cake/pooky/dats/midwayIn post 3811, Andante wrote:So tldr: I'm pretty sold on NSG being maf and Cakez/Pooky(Mena)/Dats/Midway is gonna contain 2.
(meant to add tldr to post above)
which makes this a fairly easy game, only Mena has not been here and I still haven't looked at midway...-
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I mean, it's stuff TRed about Mare, which ehhh I'm half tempted to just sheep the cake wagon, and if that's maf, autovote nsg, but if cake is town.. idk so uhhh I think NSG >Cake is the better ideaIn post 3813, skitter30 wrote:
Eh this was to me and doesnt bother me so much tbh, she was trying to explain her mare readIn post 3810, Andante wrote:^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"
I'm really kinda more concerned with where she went wrong on sleepless and how she's viewing the game after the fact-
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Unless people want to play, can we just flip NSG here? like, no one is doing anything. is that cause what? they agree with this wagon? they disagree and hope ignoring makes it go away??? idk I’m too drunk for this tonight, but like come on people, let’s do something… if you tr NSG speak up… if you have any thoughts… share…-
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I mean, mena + nsg are likely 2, so yes… town is arguing with town hereIn post 3820, midwaybear wrote:
imagine if we're all just town arguing with each otherIn post 3817, skitter30 wrote:idk why this whole game feels like molasses and like we can't do anything-
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there’s a point where it’s like, no way this is town nsg, town nsg would have given some sort of content last night, knowing she’s said nothing d2In post 3822, skitter30 wrote:i think we are
i really do want town-nsg to share her thoughts but i'm kinda reaching my limit for how long we can wait for her, the day has been open for close to 5 irl days and in that time we've basically had 2 posts promising content without any-
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there’s no way nsg is town, uhh when i’m done making cookies I want to look into cake and dats, cause if I’m right on nsg + mena/cake/dats and it is nsg+mena, that means dats/cake is carrying, but it’s not likely pooky+dats both pick 1… and mena nsg cake feels too easy… idk, need to finish my cookies then I’ll look at that, but I don’t get why it feels like minimal effort from so many…-
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hmmmm right yes your vote is here. been here first. I don’t like how I have a 3/3 lol cause that means it’s wrong. nsg/mena/cake… hahahaha well uhh i’m still flipping nsg, there is absolutely 0 effort to care/tell us when we’ll even get reads from that slot, could be frozen maf at this point? idk. I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO DO STUFF….-
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how about we just yeet nsg and deal with tomorrow later? like, the 2 posts we got were literally "don't replace me! I'm here!" if nsg was town, she'd have actual intentions, like skitter didn't even ask her a hard question "what are your thoughts now that Sleepless flipped town" minimal effort to answer...-
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and nsg completely ignored votes when she showed up, probably cause she never intended to actually do stuff...In post 3857, Datisi wrote:now we at least have one player that is forced to react to something.-
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oh nvm, this game has been a blur, nothing happened...In post 3716, northsidegal wrote:sorry for the absence, reviewing time-
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I'm just gonna put down my gut thoughts for everyone and call it a day, I do think I'm wrong somewhere, but 2 of my SRs aren't even trying so uhhh fun stuff, this list isn't in order
skitter30 - I'm pretty certain she's town, my strongest tr here, if I'm wrong here, I'm quite sure I'm never finding maf this game
Something_Smart - Probably town, if he's maf it's probably like skitter/dats/ss in which case I'm never catching that anyways. on one hand, I don't think he pushes me for being tracker as maf, on the other hand, I don't think he's really had strong reads outside me this game, so it's not hard to just tunnel me all game as maf, I do like how he's like "look at the reactions I got!" like, I don't see a cake+SS team based on how Cake reacted lol, that would've probably been in scumchat like "dude! wtf you doing?" lol
Datisi - I don't know how to read you, you could be maf, could be town. I just need people that would make sense as your partner before I'd be ok going "dats maf!" like, I have town points and maf points here, hopefully I'm dead before I have to commit to a read on dats, or I just track him and catch him! lol
SirCakez - I probably just need to sit down and ISO him, I don't think anything I've seen thus far is hard to fake as cake!maf, if people really want a cake wagon, and had actual reason not the "wagon for lolz" that was said earlier, I'd have to ISO before I hopped on that.
catboi - I don't think I've really looked into him recently, I know I had an early town lean here, cat + faker TRs were my 2 confident reads early. faker town makes me think cat likely also town.
Alyssa The Lamb flow trap - I want to say I TRed flow, still need to look at flow's scumgame to be certain, I'm not really TRing Alyssa, but if flow is town, so is Alyssa
northsidegal - probably maf, looking back at D1, it feels like a lot of her reads were copying mine, maybe she had some of them first though, but I don't feel like town would towncase me while everyone else already TRs me, then kinda just brush off other reads, feels a lot like she took my reads and used those to shape hers, similar reason that I SRed Sleepless for though, so I'm kinda nervous here, but if she doesn't wanna show up/try, I'm down to vote her, I know what I need from her to TR her, and the 2 d2 posts aren't enough lmao
Mare - I genuinely do not tr her. honestly, I just feel like she has an aggressive tone this game, which like, I can't interact with, just pushing Cakez, not a huge reason there, "Always here, yet talks when she wants" ehhh I can definitely see her as maf
Menalque PookyTheMagicalBear - neither Pooky nor Mena have even done much
midwaybear - I still haven't ISOd midway, not sure I entirely like the midway posts I've seen though, kinda feels like maf just popping in when they do talk.
innocentvillager - dead town I thought was maf
Sleepless Assassin - dead town I thought was maf
Faker - dead town I thought was town-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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ummm this may or may not be an issue, but I believe the deadline is the 18th... I won't be around then, and I won't be around the 17th, AND probably won't be here the 16th.. not saying I'm trying to rush a lim, but like, if people could try/we could start heading in a direction of a vote, that'd be great. I'm not opposed to yeeting whoever does the least, but like, this "wagon for reaction" stuff, ehh need some serious wagons. I thought nsg was a serious wagon, but the way people are talking makes it seem not serious, truth be told, I don't exactly care where this wagon ends, as long as it's not on like 3 people, I'm fine with it-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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Ok, I'm gonna be V/LA till like the 18th/19th, It's winter break ending, going back to classes and some real life stuff that makes me sad just thinking about, I think celebrating last night kinda really hit home that stuff is happening. (I know none of yall care, but like, the dog and I turn 22 on the exact same day!! yet we're not together for that day... I just thought that was the coolest thing ever, like, 22 months. 22 years... same day!! Why did I agree to raise a dog for 2 years then give it up... ahhh ok, bye. none yall care, and it's too sad to think about right now) I'm still gonna try and check in daily (no clue if I'll be around 16-18.. might be able to be here 17 night to move a vote if needbe, but no promises, that's the 13hr driving day...) After 18/19 I should be fine, these next few days are shaky, and I just don't wanna feel like I *have* to try and talk/ deal with my everchanging reads, cause I'd rather be enjoying these final days with my pup... ahhhh I hate thinking about it,
ok! go team!!! yall got this!! also if anyone wants to tell me if I should try and track maf/town, I'm open to hearing ideas on who I should track, I was thinking go for maf, but who knows-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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yoooo that's actually a really good point, if midway is town and flow is town and sleepless town, maf was stuck probably going between wagons, and maybe not taking a hard stance for one, which would make me feel a lot better about voting mena here than nsg, like both mena and nsg did the "im acknowledging I got a prod, but don't replace me" thing, but mena's was worse, like "do I have to read all that...." versus "I intend to catch up" plus if maf was stuck between wagons, I think mena is gonna be a better vote than nsg-
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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Andante SheSurvivorShe
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