open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[skitter30]

catboi, cakez, nsg, alyssa i explicitly dont think are town
I'm kinda going back and forth on ss, midway but leaning on town

Everyone else i feel like i have a reason to townread

[skitter30]

at the time it felt explicitly scummy but her explanation was not what I thought it was

Hmmm?

[skitter30]

nsg hasn't even been here yet for d2, so do you feel confident enough in a sr on nsg from day 1?

My read on her dipped after sleepless flipped town, and i want to talk to her abt it

[skitter30]

I think if there's a town vig who shot faker they might as well claim, otherwise i dont think we should get into claiming rn

[skitter30]

I'm not sure why it would be beneficial for you to claim rn

[skitter30]

You targeted iv last night?

[skitter30]

Well, andante's town, that's what i got out of this

[skitter30]

Although there really was no point to this whole claiming rigamorole

[skitter30]

Mena catboi nsg

I'm p sure andante is town, still

[skitter30]

VOTE: andante

meh

I really, really think she's town here

[skitter30]

No, you should have picked like ascetic cop, which i think you forgot exists >.>

[skitter30]

VOTE: andante

meh

I really, really think she's town here

can you argue with s_s about it so i can decide who to sheep instead of coming to me

Remind me! In about six hours from now, sure
For now i dont want this to become a wagon

Pedit cant bicker with him rn
She doesnt forget ascetic cop is a thing when she's scum ... like someone would have brought up her picking it ...

[skitter30]

For now i dont want this to become a wagon

who do you want me to vote

Catboi nsg alyssa or cakez
Really dont want andante

[skitter30]

Ok i acrually do like have to pretend to do my job, bbl

[skitter30]

okay, *why*

Top draft is decently correlated with being scum, her play has done nothing to shake me off of that, scum presumably made two kills and neither was aimed at the top 3 (which I believe is fairly rare? might be worth checking the stats there), she's been playing up how she is a known PR and how much that matters and then she claims under basically zero pressure with zero info, her reaction to the double kill was pretty awkward and may have betrayed knowledge that it was a scum vig, and now she's shading me off of Mena associatives rather than push me directly which may be to avoid OMGUS accusations.

I guess my commets:
- i dont think she picks tracker as scum at all, and in general i think picking that bracket as scum is unlikely
- i can see scum trying to remove ~thread presence~ as i write this out i realize this probably points to a confident scum team
- playinf up the known pr thing: not sure scum-her does that tbh; i think she's a lot more timid as scum and i dont think this entire episode unfolds this way if she's scum
- shading wrt mena associatives i think is just how she thinks, dont think its scum indicative

[skitter30]

Something_Smart

Datisi
skitter30

SirCakez

Sleepless Assassin
Andante
innocentvillager

catboi

Alyssa The Lamb flow trap
northsidegal
Mare

Menalque PookyTheMagicalBear
midwaybear

Faker

This feels like a comfy solve

Why is nsg town?

[skitter30]

i think picking that bracket as scum is unlikely

??? didn't scum that was first in draft pick in that bracket last time you played pyp?

or do you mean andante!scum is unlikely to pick in that bracket?

I dont think i played it before in this setup? I feel like scum tries to takw away the strong town roles, no?

[skitter30]

I've generally liked her contributions when I saw them

It's not entirely locked until I've had a chance to interact with her directly though

Can you point to a few that you liked plz?

[skitter30]

Oh good point actually
Well now she's locked into tracker and if there are mysterious rb's going around we know who to look at

[skitter30]

At the very least i dont think its scum indicative that she picked it

[skitter30]

nsg!

[skitter30]

I think i'm townreading scum

[skitter30]

I dont think the full scumteam is in you, nsg, catboi, cakez
And the game is still kinda and dead and still without wagons ... makes me think scum are either v complacenr or under the radar

Feel better andante <3

Pedit that wasnt abt u, ur one of the reads i'm *not* questioning rn

[skitter30]

I really cant imagine voting you before, like, literal elo

I am requestioning dats and mare now tho

Pedit sure

[skitter30]

Is anyone very confident dats is town?

I lowkey am ok with wagoning cakez to try to firm up that read / see if anything interesting happens

As i write this out it really is kinda curious how all that momentum happened day1 when i voted flow but the game was dead when sleepless/midway had wagons that size, does make me wonder if ur scum alyssa. And also it would be kinda weird if all of sleepless/flow/midway are town

Also i really wanted to talk to nsg >.>

[skitter30]

Oh hi! Ok cool well maybe we'll talk but i'm gonna go to sleep soon ...

What i really want to know how the sleepless townflip changed your pov of the game, and what you thought when you saw him flip town

[skitter30]

As i write this out it really is kinda curious how all that momentum happened day1 when i voted flow but the game was dead when sleepless/midway had wagons that size, does make me wonder if ur scum alyssa. And also it would be kinda weird if all of sleepless/flow/midway are town

Is this the only possible reason for it though

Ok, what are other possible reasons?

[skitter30]

Sleepless/midway stalled on 2/3 votes respectively for like half a week iirc, if not longer

I voted flow, noting it was 15 hours to (pre-extended) deadline and we needed to make *something* happen. And that's what started the scramble. I dont think flow posted even from that time onwards

[skitter30]

Maybe ... why didnt the sleepless or midway wagons pick up at all? Why did thr scramble.start when flow got 2 votes?

[skitter30]

Sure, but i dont have anything in particular to ask u abt

I guess just overall i feel like i've been looking for scum in the wrong places, and ii'm questioning if i had a good reason to townread you in the first place

[skitter30]

No nsg :(

[skitter30]

Y

[skitter30]

because it seems like nothing in this game is happening

and nothing will continue happening until we wagon someone and they feel actual pressure of upcoming death

if you wanna wagon me instead, i would even be down for that, because this game is currently standing in place and i am bored

Fair enuf ... i very much want to wagon nsg and cakez but like if neither are here i'm not sure that will, like, do so much ....
Although tbf it might induce another mad scramble for all i know

Remind me what your thoughts are on alyssa/flow? That's probably who i'd want to wagon next tbh

[skitter30]

Dont know if we need e1 but i'm on board in spirit ^

[skitter30]

^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"

Eh this was to me and doesnt bother me so much tbh, she was trying to explain her mare read

I'm really kinda more concerned with where she went wrong on sleepless and how she's viewing the game after the fact

[skitter30]

idk why this whole game feels like molasses and like we can't do anything

[skitter30]

i think we are

i really do want town-nsg to share her thoughts but i'm kinda reaching my limit for how long we can wait for her, the day has been open for close to 5 irl days and in that time we've basically had 2 posts promising content without any

[skitter30]

same
i think there's a universe where she's town and just flakes out

[skitter30]

i mean she spent the day hardpushing someone who flipped town and i want to know what she's thinking now after that ...

[skitter30]

I will point out that her two posts for the day were basically a prodge, and would argue that shouldnt count for prod timer purposes ...

[skitter30]

Which i suppose is fair, but i'm not just interested in pushing her for being afk, but rather for her day1, but we're not getting much too

And the other person i'd want to wagon is basically vla as well, so not sure if that woupd help either

[skitter30]

I feel like all of scum are either afk, or they're all deepwolves who are sitting back and laughing

[skitter30]

I was hoping the vote would get a response of some sort from nsg. She's not inactive which means he's either avoiding the game or not paying attention to it, neither of which makes a lot of sense to be doing as town

This is part of what's bothering me here ...

[skitter30]

Question for those who were here: how important was NSG’s sleepless read to him actually getting limmed?

I mean when people were switching to flow and midway, she was encouraging people to go back to sleepless, and when i had doubts on sleepless, she was actively trying to talk me out of them

[skitter30]

G'luck going back to classes andante, i hope the transition is smooth

[skitter30]

feel better ydra <3

[skitter30]

VOTE: alyssa

Why?

[skitter30]

Game is going to be functionally unplayable if half the people in it aren't around to post at all

Also functionally i'm not sure how this is any different than the game until now

@schadd can u prod nsg now plz

[skitter30]

@catboi r.e. alyssa - i can see that, yeah

because I know the alignment of the other three wagonees from day one

so knowing that he's town or scum drastically changes how day one looks depending on which it is

well, what would the game look like to you in either universe?

[skitter30]

Well, which way are you reading him, and from ur pov if he's town why was there a scramble eod?

[skitter30]

Busy friday, i'll be around tom night, and will get back to u then alyssa ... also i think nsg is at e1 again now

[skitter30]

Uh...why?

1. It gives everybody the ability to know that flow was town, which already gives more insight into day one than most other kills; with how useless most of today was (DL is in like 4 days isn't it?), that's at least something
2. If Menalque and NSG are town, this is already a losing position for town since they both give very little information upon a flip and then I'm the obvious kill after that, which will be past game at that point
3. I'm borderline unreadable in this type of game, so there is little reason for anyone to believe I'm town later on in the game, so it will be easy for me to be set up to be the game winning kill on day 4 or whatever it is
4. Something very odd happening might be the jumpstart that the inactive town need to start giving a shit about the game.

this is townie i think

[skitter30]

Well this is an unwelcome turn of events

i mean .... do u find it surprisng?

[skitter30]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

do i know who u are?

[skitter30]

ok random but i mixed up skitter and NSG and thought i was skitter for a bit LOL

>.>
that's probably town-indicative, which is a shame cuz i was gonna vote u and idk who to vote now

[skitter30]

The way cakez approached the game comes from a town cakez mindset - where I believe he is evaluating things in the start and just stops playing once there are too many posts.

how is this different than scum-him who never got caught up?

[skitter30]

good portion of that is a gamestate read where I think his EoD wagon was scum driven and it was TVT.

and given that i don't think you've read much, where is this gamestate read coming from

[skitter30]

VOTE: cakez

@kaiji i read a bit furhter, including your convo with catboi, i still want an answer to the above question

[skitter30]

i townread too many people but don't townread him, and we're at the point where 'eh well maybe this *could* be town him' isn't good enuf

i don't know who his partners would be, but there's honestly very few (if any) people i would rule out

and i've been wanting to vote him for a while, been waiting for him to come off of vla
and plz answer 4011

[skitter30]

i'm baffled how this is a 160 page game and yet it feels like nothing is happening >.>

[skitter30]

ok so you're basically saying that that was a Hot Take to get reacitons and not necessarily based on anything?

[skitter30]

Day1 deadline scramble
Andante claim
Mare claim day1 / claiming her action day2

~
I'm not particularly convinced mena's slot is scum - the rep-out i thought was p town, and i think mena is busy irl

[skitter30]

I think my motivation would have sputtered out a long, long time ago if i were scum, but u are free to believe that, or not, as you like

Ss i think is town, maybe midway town, i still dont really have an opinion on catboi

But i guess my read on midway iant strong and i'm running out of places scum can be, so gonna slot into 'maybe scum', i think

[skitter30]

I'm mostly looking for slots that are trying to put content out there but without risking progressing the game

I feel like that's half the game, no? >.>

[skitter30]

I'm mostly looking for slots that are trying to put content out there but without risking progressing the game

I feel like that's half the game, no? >.>

What players are most likely to do this in a dead gamestate as scum though

Honestly all? Why would they not play this way as scum, they dont have to do anything? Questions like these arent really helping me because it doesnt really feel like its helping narrow down anything

It doesnt help that a lot of town arent doing much either, so its very hard to tell the difference

Pedit i think catboi would be ~trying to be more of an influence~ as scum but its a weak read

[skitter30]

cuz i have something town-ish that i can point to for the slot (i.e. pooky), and i don't have that for cakez

[skitter30]

Ok so we have like a day and a half ...

[skitter30]

I wish ... as it is, i've basically resigned myself to a loss here

VOTE: midway

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
i'm on in spirit, but that's e1, and if we want to flip him let's make sure we do the whole claim rigmarole first

[skitter30]

it was hard to get traction on sleepless day1
and we got catboi to at least three votes, possibly 4

the only person taht sort of works for is cakez

[skitter30]

there's more baitlims in this game than there are available misflips so i'm not super enthused by that strategy
tbh your slot is one of them too ...

[skitter30]

and why were you voting cakez and not catboi when there was a fairly viable catboi wagon for like half a week?

[skitter30]

i mean the game is just presumably going to be dead-er since they're not gonna be killing one of the active slots so

[skitter30]

Its known that the bracket is in the game because of sleepless, i dont think that's indicative of anything for andante

Andante said she she wasnt rb'd

VOTE: cakez
Maybe catboi is better idk

[skitter30]

skitt, are you trying to just run up people to get them to claim? because that's how it feels like when you switch from one wagon to another after a claim in a game where claims are almost completely nai.

Funny, that's what i was thinking abt ur vote

And no, but i dont think we need to flip him today

[skitter30]

like, if you had thought cakez was a better wagon, why didn't you do that *before* midway outed his pick

pedit: hmm? i haven't moved my vote. i'm standing behind it. you're the one who swapped onto a different wagon immediately, tf you on about?

Because i think that's a role that will get resolved at night, and i dont want to flip it if town

[skitter30]

I wish ... as it is, i've basically resigned myself to a loss here

what is this supposed to mean

Impossible ro tell the difference between town and scum rn

[skitter30]

I dont really want to flip ss today

[skitter30]

@skitter why do you townread SS?

- i liked his refusal to vote sleepless yesterday / his townread of sleepless
- i liked his read on mare
- i liked his reaction to my pushing him

Why is any of this a towntell for him?

- dunno why scum-him postures around not voting sleepless, seems easy enuf to just vote him. Also he had a pretty early townread on sleepless' big wall, and was pretty resolute in defending it throughougt despite pressure from a variety of people voting there, which makes me think it was a real read he had the whole time
- this was is more just a ping
- i liked the whole string of posts ~1736 - ~ 1759, particularly 1745, i'm not sure scum-him pushes back and tells me i'm making an inaccurate comparison, or gets so grumpy about the comparison i'm making, or would respond that way to being 'threatened'

I also dont think he questions me the way he did when i questioned mare's claim as scum

[skitter30]

Well that's the point i find to be most town-indicative, and i'm not even sure you went back and read the context

[skitter30]

and why are you voting me for this

Because I felt like you were trying to threaten me with an inaccurate comparison.

I don't actually think it's scum indicative, it was mostly a protest vote.

I can see this as *nullifying* your meta point there, but to call this response towny? no.


also SS loves chatting it up with his scum buds and throwing around banter, I've seen it before.

I dont think he pushes back or gets so annoyed as scum tbh

[skitter30]

This is probably kaiji's towngame

At the very least if the vig is scum he absolutely isnt

[skitter30]

@kaiji can u give a tldr for midway/ss plz?

[skitter30]

do we think a town vig would have claimed?

[skitter30]

i think if the vig is town iv would make more sense as the vig-kill? i'm not sure what town-vig shoots faker
honestly i'm having a hard time seeing what town-vig shoots either

[skitter30]

midway why did you doc me last night?

[skitter30]

i think we should flip cakez today

[skitter30]

Why do i start the midway wagon again? I also object to the characterization that i am 'trying my upmost hardest to divert the wagon away', or that cakez is the easiest flip for me rn, or that i'm even particularly worried abt a midway wagon

I also think midway probably really is doctor (or at the least, he has several points in the game where he's indicating he's thinking abt the game from a doc-oriented pov, and i dont think scum takes doc in that bracket)
I also dont particularly feel pocketed
~
I want more on why you think cakez is town

[skitter30]

I also remembered that a specific point is that I don't like the push to label the vig as a scum vig -> I

have a specific read on who the vig is and it is very much in line with a likely person able to have it and use it in the way they did as town.

No one nightkills IV on N1. That's not a solve heavy slot.

There's just a

lot of icky things I feel from skitter slot and its subtle, whic

h - kudos to their scumplay to not being overt - but I feel that when analyzing what I feel reality is - it crashes down around her.


I'm keeping my vote strictly between Midway/SS today.

Bolded: disagree, and iv and faker were the two most townread slots in the game (and if you disagree, its cuz you werent here day1), and none of the potential vig slots shoot either as town i'm ~95% certain

Italics: if you have issues you'd like me to address, plz raise them, instead of being vaguely wishy-washy

[skitter30]

but based on what happened between SS/Midway

Plz elaborate on thiz too

[skitter30]

That's my point

[skitter30]

andante claimed tracker already, and you're painfully obviously town if the vig is scum

[skitter30]

Nah we're done interacting for this dayphase, I'm not filling up the thread with a back and forth where I'm fairly sure the other side is interacting in bad faith. Present info and we can talk - but thus far you've made claims without evidence.

I don't think cakez is town necessarily, I just think I have a good team read on my hands.

what I see from midway talking about doc is moreso a setup to claim doc - it's primarily d2 he makes the softs - and to explain why you are alive. There was suspicion starting to come towards midway and the IV flip implicated him slightly -> thus he has to set something up early.

I don't see a reason why he does it as town at the stages he does, its just performative.


The fact you're so aware of it is quite interesting.

I think your points are soft and uninspiring and unwilling to commit to more than a couple strong opinions at a time.


Prove me wrong, or step aside.

ok just pointing out that from my pov you're making a lot of claims that you're declining to substantiate, and i don't really see where you're getting midway/ss from, and i would like to hear more abt it, and i strongly object to the characterization that i'm acting in bad faith here

(and from my pov midway/ss is a claim without evidence because you keep pushing it and as far as i can tell it's basically based on nothing)

(and also *why* do i start an end of day wagon on my partner and make him claim again)

(also no offense i don't think you're dying here, you'll have quite a lot of time to push this tomorrow i'm sure)

[skitter30]

then they fakeclaimed ROFL

it's not her

[skitter30]

VOTE: catboi
This guy is scum and I bet that's why Faker was killed

ss what do you think abt this one?

[skitter30]

Ugh
Why do y’all think none of the higher ordered numbers died?
VOTE: Datisi
Didn’t like your end of day. Felt generally lazy. Even though you said you didn’t want to do much, I still scum read it.
Also, I lightly townread the flow Alyssa slot from the early interaction with andante.

Ye, I townread Andante and sort of townread skitter. Based off of Sleepless (rip) claim, we know that there is either doctor or roleblocker in this game. I'm pretty sure skitter and Andante were also pretty townread yesterday, so it would make sense for scum to try to kill them. But, if my reads on them are right (hopefully), scum didn't kill them because they fear that doc might be on them. This explains why skitter and Andante are alive I think and I will probably townread whoever claims doctor (maybe not locktown but pretty sure there is doc).
Note: This sort of hinges on everything above being true which idk how likely that is. But I want to take that risk.

Also, I do think scum would aim higher, so there's at least one scum in Datisi/Mena imo (probably just one; but double is tinfoil).

I think IV and Faker were killed because they were pretty consensus townreads. I think scum avoided the top slots partially because there is a doctor in this game and also because at least one of those slots is scum.

@ss these ones, fwiw the fact that i'm only seeing it day2 is a little ? but he does seem to have been thinking abt the nk/doc's (and i wanna know why he picked me)

~
tbf this one also jsut caught my eye which is kinda bizarre since we didn't know there was a vig yet

yes ik i have not been doing much this eod but i jsut don't have a confident read on either of these two players
@Datisi

sorry for unclear but i was thinking atm that flow should get vigged

, but a replacement would probably be better

[skitter30]

why, and how is it different than andante 'slipping' she knew scum killed iv?

[skitter30]

if faker didn't walk into a pgo i'm p sure it's a scum vig and there's only a handful of slots it can be
i don't think any of those slots as town kill either iv/faker, it doesn't match any of their reads

[skitter30]

if cakez is scum i can see midway as a partner fwiw

[skitter30]

andante's town

and in retrospect i do agree that it's p heavy-handed. i'm thinking midway/cakez rn

[skitter30]

link? i really, really, really don't think this is her scumgame

[skitter30]

can you requote where you think andante slipped that?

and you don't have to @kaiji ... i really don't think this is her scumgame tbh

[skitter30]

Andante also arguably gave away that scum shot IV.

can you quote where you think this happened ?

[skitter30]

Eh, i see ur point. Even so i dont think this looks like scum-her
I also think its a fairly reasonable assumption that scum shot both simce town shooting either is ?

[skitter30]

Plz dont forget the action tonight >.>
I think midway will be resolved (or not) by not dying, scum probably have to kill him if town

[skitter30]

i hardclaim vt, nsg tried to pick vig(a bad role)


now i never get killed easy

yes, you made it obvious >.>
making the vig-slot in {cakez, catboi, mena, dats} - unless one of them is pgo and faker walked into them, it doesn't make sense for town any of them to have shot either of iv/faker, which makes me think it's scum ...

[skitter30]

yes, i was thinking that, but i can see cakez shooting them too
honestly all of them have an incentive to shoot faker

mare u wanna vote cakez now?

[skitter30]

Andante: 2 ~ tracker claim
skitter30: 3 ~ not vig
midwaybear: 5 ~ doc claim
Mare: 6 ~ neighbor claim
innocentvillager: 10 ~ universal backup
SirCakez: 12
Faker: 14 ~ watcher
catboi: 21
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 + coin flip victory
Datisi: 1
northsidegal: 8 + coin flip victory ~ tried for vig, failed
Sleepless Assassin: 8 ~ tried for doc, failed
flow trap: 9 + coin flip victory
Something_Smart: 9.

i already looked at cakez/catboi/mena/dats and none of them make sense to have shot either of faker/iv as a town vig
cakez/catboi slot being the top scum slot would be kinda sad for them, out of everything above the two of them i think midway is the most sus

[skitter30]

if kaiji is scum then a town-vig-slot is responsible for the second kill becaue they pretty clearly don't have knowledge abt where the second kill came from

but none of them have reads that align with that shot. it's possible faker walked into an activated pgo but i'[m having a hard time seeing who he'd have wathed last night in that group?

[skitter30]

I did not take vig, although I wish I had. I'll claim if people think it's a good idea.

i don't think you need to claim, i'm more just trying to track down the vig slot / whether it's a scum vig slot

[skitter30]

Ok we have 17 hours (oh the deja vu from day1)
Rn my preferred flip is cakez, but will vote whatever is needed in the morning to make a flip happen

[skitter30]

Why dont we just leash midway to andante, and have andante track midway

If andante is rb'd midway is scum, if andante dies midway is scum, if andante survives she should get a result on midway and be able to verify him (or not)

That should give us info on both slots, and we can use the flip today to try to figure out the cakez/catboi/dats/mena group (my preference being cake)

[skitter30]

if I was a mafia roleblocker, I would've been blocking skitter 99% of the time

?

[skitter30]

Exactly

Theoretically we'll either clear both, midway will die, or we'll have a 1v1

Pedit ?

[skitter30]

alright well

whatever I guess

VOTE: Menalque

Why mena over cakez?

[skitter30]

Why dont we just leash midway to andante, and have andante track midway

This does make some amt of sense, right?

[skitter30]

And midway should be on andante

I thought through it some more, and its not foolproof (esp. in the scum-andante world), but if midway is scum he'll be caught out if andante is town (or they could be scum together, which i think is unlikely)

Cakez is e1 fwiw

[skitter30]

And midway should be on andante

I thought through it some more, and its not foolproof (esp. in the scum-andante world), but if midway is scum he'll be caught out if andante is town (or they could be scum together, which i think is unlikely)

Cakez is e1 fwiw

scum andante world doesn't exist here, so we good

Yeah i agree that world is unlikely, but i thought it was a foolproof idea mechanically, and when i thought abt it more, realized it technically isnt if you're scum

But it'll help with midway

Also @midway will be very unimpressed tom if you 'missed this' and visited someone else

[skitter30]

Not mena or cakez (tbf, neither have posted, so they might)

[skitter30]

That's hammer?

[skitter30]

I'm p sure it has to be in that group of {dats, mena, cakez, catboi}

[skitter30]

Also can we plz try to get our collective act together earlier tomorrow ... this was a mess >.>

Maybe we'll do better day3?

[skitter30]

Ahhhhhhhhh holy ahamakaJnsbz i dont even have words for how frustrating this is lol

I'm happy that at least we didnt ... use the *flip* to kill midway

Andante plz give ur nebulous results
Mare plz for my sanity did u neighborize ...

We need to find that vig ... mena plz claim if u took the vig slot

I probably want to vote catboi here but ajahahahahshshsbsbsb

[skitter30]

I dont townread like anybody anymore

Also today is probably massclaim idk

[skitter30]

Plz someone confirm that ...

Dats i want to say that i explicitly do not townread u anymore

[skitter30]

I'm VT and went for neighborizer and feel stupid for having done so

Y

[skitter30]

I Neighborized.

Whomst?

dat is i

Y
Just y
Y to everything

[skitter30]

SS didn’t visit anyone last night

That wS for this if it wasnt obvious ....

[skitter30]

You agreed it was a good idea .....
You said you would do it

That's why we didnt flip midway yesterday

Anhhayagagagavaav

[skitter30]

I have to pretend to do my job bur just ....

I also tbf dont know why scum-her who knows they're iilling andante doesnt just say midway visited her

[skitter30]

why would i out who i’m tracking??? so dumb… almost as dumb as voting me out

so track the person u agree to tracking ....

whyyyyyyyyyyy did u do this, if midway didnt die this would be a literal clusterfuck

[skitter30]

I have absolutely no idea and am utterly beyond exasperated rn

[skitter30]

i didn’t track doc cause that was a stupid idea if doc died

Like what was ur plan if doc lived ....

[skitter30]

Dats i want to say that i explicitly do not townread u anymore

okay

i am not sure why you felt the need to specify that after saying you do not townread anyone but alright

I think i mostly had u in mind when i was thinking that tbh

Pedit that's the obvious kill for everyone tho ...

[skitter30]

I am settling on 'doesnt make sense for scum-andante to track someone else but also kill midway'

[skitter30]

I am settling on 'doesnt make sense for scum-andante to track someone else but also kill midway'

It doesn't make a ton of sense, but Andante's play doesn't make a lot of sense no matter how you slice it. I don't think she's explained yet why she agreed to track midway but apparently was lying?

I dont think so, but i also think it makes 'less sense' as scum than town?

[skitter30]

I think i mostly had u in mind when i was thinking that tbh

is there anything specific that sparked that (i'm assuming the answer is "midway flipped green" but i am asking anyway) and is there anything you want from me

Mostly that i'm running out of placea that scum can be, and idk rn, i'll think abt it

[skitter30]

Kaiji yesterday u thought it was midway/ss - the midway flip doesnt seem to be affecting ur read on ss?

[skitter30]

I dont think so, but i also think it makes 'less sense' as scum than town?

Why?

I think town-Andante is much more likely to ask herself

why

she was asked to track midway.

Because failing to track midway will call a lot of negative attention to her, which she could have easily avoided by claiming to have tracked midway to herself

Its not like anybody would be able to say she was lying

[skitter30]

Mostly that i'm running out of placea that scum can be

how many people do you actually think that are town right now that you're "running out of places scum can be"?

Surprsingly ss is my strongest townread, i am surprised to realize
And i still think scum-andante is unlikely (but townread has gone waaaaaaaaay down)

But maybe a better way to say what i'm feeling is: for the stage of the game i dont have strong enuf reasons to tr anyone else i think

[skitter30]

Because failing to track midway will call a lot of negative attention to her, which she could have easily avoided by claiming to have tracked midway to herself

But like that's equally true of town-her... clearly she wasn't thinking along those lines. It could well be that she thought midway dying would reflect badly on her if she was supposedly tracking him.

P sure someone on the scumteam would have pointed that out to her tho, no?

[skitter30]

P sure someone on the scumteam would have pointed that out to her tho, no?

Well it seems to not be accurate, so maybe not.

?

Pedit same - literally all of the eod1 candisates have flipped town now, except for her

@alyssa what was happeneing eod1 from ur pov

[skitter30]

I mean i also think the midway kill shows scum thinks town is lost af

[skitter30]

VOTE: alyssa

Also at this point i'm kinda assuming a town vig/pgo sould have come forward, so i'm assuming its scum

[skitter30]

I'm not sure i should comment on that or not

[skitter30]

like, what good does it do if maf knows who I'm tracking?? I fully believed midway was real doc, town or maf, doesn't matter, but if midway was maf, midway would only use doc action on me, not also perform a kill. like, I genuinely don't get why I was supposed to track doc either, cause if I tracked midway, here we are with nothing. at least here, I know SS didn't visit anyone.

The point was to confirm midway (or not) ... as we didnt know he was actually doc (vs rb)
Not to catch him.doing the nk

If you didnt see him visiting you he'd be scum and/or scumclaiming and/or rb'ing you

[skitter30]

If he was scum he doesnt take doc, he takes rb in that slot, and if you track him and he docs you, you'd see him doccing you

But if he's scum rb, he'd either rb you, or have to visit someone else (which you'd see id you're a tracker), or kill you (which would be a scumclaim since he"@ claiming doc and we leashed him to you)

[skitter30]

Yes >.>

[skitter30]

You not being rb'd n1 doesnt prove that we dont have an rb ?

Pedit and no, becauze if midway didnt did, we still wouldnt have sorted him because you didnt track him, so we probably flip him today, and after he flips town we probably flip you for failing to confirm him ...

[skitter30]

No >.>

[skitter30]

Why is it mena and not dats or catboi

[skitter30]

Why alyssa town

[skitter30]

@ss fwiw i think how u feel abt this is roughly how i felt abt mare yesterday

[skitter30]

P sure someone on the scumteam would have pointed that out to her tho, no?

Well it seems to not be accurate, so maybe not.

?

Pedit same - literally all of the eod1 candisates have flipped town now, except for her

@alyssa what was happeneing eod1 from ur pov

Plz when u have a chance

[skitter30]

Also fwiw alyssa i'm somewhat dubious that ur slot picked neighborizer

[skitter30]

P sure someone on the scumteam would have pointed that out to her tho, no?

Well it seems to not be accurate, so maybe not.

?

Pedit same - literally all of the eod1 candisates have flipped town now, except for her

@alyssa what was happeneing eod1 from ur pov

Plz when u have a chance

idk, which slots were the most active during the scramble again

Me andante faker iv and the potentjal flip options were u cakez midway sleepless, all of whom are town. ..

[skitter30]

From my pov the simplest explanation for eod1 is that ur slot is scum

[skitter30]

And dats, tbh i think its more likely than town-andante didnt realize the implications of why we wanted her to track midway, than scum-her choosing to claim a really bad night action that that would 100% make her look bad

[skitter30]

Why is massclaim helpful here?

[skitter30]

:facepalm:

i'm not that slot (and already claimed to not be that slot yesterday)

@ alyssa, kaiji is saying nsg picked (and faield to get vig), so if that's the truth the vig has to be in dats/mena/catboi (+ cakez, which is what i was saying yesterday)

[skitter30]

catboi also claimed to try to get neighborizer

[skitter30]

i'm not sure me claiming is the best thing to do here but i'm not and i'll show you why i'm not when i claim

[skitter30]

Mena is the vig then

why mena over catboi/dats ...

[skitter30]

ok? the fact that he claimed neighborizer doesn't mean he can't be vig, what does one have to do with the other

[skitter30]

yes
but we know that mare has neighborizer

and if both mare/andante are town, catboi is the highest potential scum

[skitter30]

i want to flip catboi again

[skitter30]

* i want to flip catboi again after you, to clarify

and idk i still don't have a reason to tr him, and i'm still circling back to being sus of that 21 pick ...

[skitter30]

flow would pick it lol that does not surprise me

this is actually helpful, ty, was wondering this but forgot to ask

[skitter30]

eh i want to vote mena now too

[skitter30]

tbh that's what makes me sus of nsg/kaiji's slot ...

the other camping-y slots are mena/catboi
(and andante but tbh despite it all i still think she's town)

[skitter30]

i'm just gonna call out the irony after slaughterhouse (and i think prism's prob cackling at that statement in the dead pt) but lmk if there's anything u want me to address

[skitter30]

yeah i mean if you're scum you didn't pick neighborizer

why did town-you want it?

[skitter30]

if town continues exactly like this and it's not like, exactly mwb/catboi/cakez or something then yes big trouble

but with the PRs doing something and that being broadly correct then even if today/tomo are mislims there's still time to turn it around

Mena whats ur solve now ?

[skitter30]

kaiji is really town >.>
I dont know where scum is >.> i feel like one of my assumptions are wrong but i just dont know ehat that is

I feel like the slot i townread the least is dats. Its not that i particularly scumread him so much as for basically everyone, i can point to at least ~somrthing~ i think is townie (which is why this is confusing), but i'm struggling to do that for dats.

Dats do u think.i should be townreading you here? Or at least, do you think you've been townie?

Like i feel like i have reasons fo call nearly everyone town, but obviously some of those reasons are wrong because then everyone is town, so i also feel like i cant put that much weight into those reads so i keep going round in circles

I'm also wondering if i put too much stock in pooky's replacement ... ?
~
Kaiji is your suspicion of me primarily my slot in the draft ?

[skitter30]

Should i just claim ?

[skitter30]

Right, i forgot abt that
I'm not sure that's a strong enuf reason at this point, but i'll go back and reread it

I would actually read a self-meta ted talk fwiw

(And fwiw if people want my version of a self-meta ted talk i 'll write one out too.

As an aside Catboi every time i think abt my meta here i feel like i need to rib u a bit because you're managing to be so off despite your thesis on me. This is very much not my scumgame, this is very different than the game i played in slaughterhouse, and very different than most of the conclusions *you* came to in slaughterhouse. I'm not really sure i expect you to do better but like at minimum i do think its interesting that you dont seem to be taking that into acct and are coming to the conclusion that i can be scum here)

And wrt your last question ... honestly i dont know, i'm very confused and keep going around in circles and who i want to flip keeps changing

Ig i'm trying to look at the game feom diff angles, and from the angle of 'who do i feel the least confident is town based on their own play', that's you. But from the angle of 'how does eod1 make sense if everyone involved is town', that's alyssa

And i keep wondering if i should be townreading catboi's burntout-ness, that's the reason i have to townread him but like its not so strong >.>

[skitter30]

Ty dats for writing that out ... busy friday so i will read and reflect on that later, possibly tom night

[skitter30]

:thumbsup:
That def wont happen until tomorrow night

Fwiw slaighterhouse that i keep referencing in case anyone was curious - i was scum, repped out for reasons i dont want to get into, my slot eventually got flipped

Peta/catboi made it his mission to solve the game, and tjat apparently involved a ridiculously deep dive ovwr several days and thousands of words on basically all of my scumgames in 2+ years to try to understand what i was doing throughout the game and where the last scum was. He got a lot of ~me~ right (but missed a few details), so if he thinks i'm scum here, i kinda want to know how he thinks this game compares to that meta analysis (as i think it doesnt)

[skitter30]

i'm just gonna claim

i'm vt - i assumed andante would go for ascetic cop (especially if she was town, and probably if she was scum as well given the last round), so i went for jk, which is how i know she's that bracket, and not vig or lying or anything else, and why mechanically the vig has to be in {catboi / mena / dats}

my assumption was very much mistaken, obviously, but i do think that she's still town

we should probably finish massclaim, tho i don't think it's going to be particularly helpful

[skitter30]

But further than that, the midwaybear kill is a chaos kill, and generally that type of kill indicates someone on scum is feeling pretty safe in their position

It's also notable I think because from a mechanical perspective, I think the kill points to scum being afraid that midway would be mechanically cleared today and no longer a viable mis-elim. WWhich I think is a pretty good indicator that Andante is town.

But it's also notable in that it shows that scum are absolutely not concerned whatsoever with the possibility of the ascetic cop getting a guilty. And that's a pretty significant thing - my last 3 losses as scum have all been because of me getting mechanically guiltied or POE'd. A cop outing with a guilty or multiple innocents at this stage of the game is potentially game-breaking. But scum very obviously weren't cop hunting with that kill, which means the ascetic cop draft slot is most likely in the hands of scum. And there's really only one person who realistically can have that role. And it's skitter.

i just need to point out how *silly* it would be of me as scum to give a plan that would conftown midway and then kill him because i was scared of conftowning him when i could just, like, not do that and/or flip him ... ?

i think that ascetic cop is either not in the game or scum have it, same with the n3 vig. i think we're basically out of pr's and not gonna be getting much help from them

fwiw if ascetic cop in the game it's probably in the very bottom slots

[skitter30]

yes, from my pov, but i figured that was obvious
but incidentally it is also mechanically true

[skitter30]

But, further, the entire point of that dive was for me to try to justify my association hunting. Your slot was already flipped in that game. I did not catch you based off anything in that. The only reason I even did catch you was because you claimed scum to my face by trying to get me eliminated when you couldn't justify it, and even then I nearly secondf-guessed on it, because the only justification I had was OMGUS. It was hardly a read where I had actual meaningful insight


But your implication here is that if I am town (from your POV), I should be townreading you here and the difference should be clear to me, and I absolutely do not believe that you believe that. It erads more as an attempt to belittle me and try to make me second-guess my view of you and I am absolutely not going to let that happen.

first paragraph: fair enuf, i'll stop bringing it up
second paragraph: i think that there are some p clear differences between this and my scumgame, namely:
- i would have ran out of energy nineteen billion years ago as scum: this game is so long, and so ~dragging~ ... even if i were in a winning position i would have a hard time to keep trying to move things along
- similarly/related, scum-me literally doesn't try to make the game moving. scum-me doesn't try to prod people into activity. scum-me isnt' annoyed that nobody is posting for two whole dayphases. scum-me is very much fine that the game is slow. scum-me is very, very, very happy i don't have to continue posting and that the game is going fantastic from scum's pov without me even doing this much. i don't post nearly this much as scum, especially not in a game where scum is winning and scum doesn't *need* me to post as much
- scum-me doesn't care abt prodding people in an eod deadline scramble 2x
- i am flabbergasted why scum-me would propose a plan to conf midway and then just kill him
- scum me actaully probably has some idea as to who to she wants to flip today instead of just going around in circles becuase the game is confusing
- scum-me doesn't start off a hunt for a scum-vig well before anybody else does (and certainly doesn't if it's me ...?)

there's probably more to this that i'll think of as i think about this game
but the first two points are basically how to read me ... the fact that i still have energy and still *care* about trying to win this is not indicative of scum-me at all

[skitter30]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

this was a very clever soft referencing my previous stance on vigilante as a role, which I have expressed in a recent dead PT of a completed game - as well as the latter claiming "it is ok" meaning the role was not obtained.

you weren't very subtle, i had you claiming to try for the vig slot a few posts after this one basically
(hence starting my vig-hunt ...)

[skitter30]

the pick makes sense from town!nsg's point of view. so options are that either kaiji is town and telling the truth, or they repped in, saw they were scum, zoomed through the scum pt to read about nsg saying how she'd pick vig as town (i'm assuming that's what'd be happening in the scum pt) and then decided to soft about that knowing it'd fit her play profile - at the time when it was arguably unnecessary because the wagon had already gone down.

This is probably kaiji's towngame

At the very least if the vig is scum he absolutely isnt

that's basically the reasoning for this

[skitter30]

i think we might as well finish the massclaim fully

[skitter30]

also dats, ty for 4644 ... it was very helpful and i do think you're being kinda townie in that sense tbh

~
i think i'm looking at like ... catboi, mena, alyssa, maybe ss ?
i don't think andante, kaiji, or dats are scum

i think if andante is scum it opens up more worlds for possible scumteams but im also having a hard time wrapping my head around andante-scum

[skitter30]

>.>

is it bad that i'm just clearing andante? i really don't see her as scum tho ... >.>

[skitter30]

i think if there's an ascetic cop it's at the bottom and someone just went for a hail mary and figured might as well try for it and see if nobody has it

[skitter30]

idk if he even has a read on me ... >.>

[skitter30]

more like i think u have a valid point in that i don't think you play this way as scum
but i'm also, like, vacillating a lot and keep changing my mind, i suppose we'll see what i think tomorrow

[skitter30]

i'm p sure scum chose multitasking before they knew the results of the draft, no?

[skitter30]

phase one - the draft:
~ once alignments have been dealt out, each player must send a (whole, positive) number back to the mod, with the lowest unique number winning the draft. second place is awarded to the second lowest unique number and so on, until all unique numbers have been exhausted. next placed on the list is the lowest doubled numbers, followed by the next lowest doubled numbers, and so on. continue this same process for triples and quadruples.
~ in cases of multiple players selecting the same number, the higher placed between these players is chosen randomly.
~ during the first setup phase, the mafia will collectively pick one factional power. they may choose ONE of:

'resolution of the draft' comes after this stage

[skitter30]

why are u voting her >.>

[skitter30]

i'm still kinda thinking if the vig is scum they aren't ...
also they had some v townie posts today (esp. the ones explaining their thought process, their poe, how they're stuck, etc)

[skitter30]

i know she picked tracker/jk (and i agree it is not a Great first pick ... which is why i went for it second, and why i was rather frustrated that despite being second i am a vt)

from my pov it has to be in {catboi, dats, mena}, assuming you're town

[skitter30]

andante i still think pooky's rep-out was rather townie, but i need to revisit that but i literally can't because mena's not here ... i'm not really sure how to resolve him given that he's not really playing ...

[skitter30]

you could have gotten literally anything you wanted tho ... and i wanted jk since i assumed you would go for ascetic cop >.>

pedit i'm assuming if she's scum she has jk and not tracker fwiw, idk why scum ever picks tracker

[skitter30]

i don't think she cares nearly as much as scum, and i think she's signifcantly more frozen and less capable of nuanced thought that carries through her posting as scum

like her trajectory makes a lot of sense (even if i dont' necessarily agree with it) ... as scum i think she freezes and is a lot more surface level and isn't like ~passionate~ about her reads, and doesn't have as much of a 'complete' trajectory

[skitter30]

like her trajectory makes a lot of sense (even if i dont' necessarily agree with it)

in that at least i think it makes sense to her, and she believes in it, and her posting reflects that

[skitter30]

i mean , like, tbf i'm basing this off of like 3 games, including this one, but the scumgame i saw was so markedly different from the towngame, and this looks like the towngame

idk
i could be wrong like i said i only have the three games

and like idk i don't really see her day2 to be so much different than day1? she was absent for a lot of it but that's an irl thing and not an alignment thing, and we have a ton of town this game that were absent for much of the game too ... and i find her day3 thus far to be reminscent of day1

and why does scum-her kill midway but also fail to claim a track on him?