open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:25 pm

In post 4, schadd_ wrote:
night 3 vigilante or vengeful

1-shot vigilante or 2-shot PGO (active)

ascetic cop or bulletproof

draft cop or 1-shot watcher

lime doctor or roleblocker

universal backup or rolecop

neighborizer or voyeur

jailkeeper or tracker

Row 1: Unclaimed
Row 2: Confirmed to exist, unclaimed
Row 3: Unclaimed
Row 4: Flipped
Row 5: Flipped
Row 6: Flipped
Row 7: Claimed
Row 8: Claimed

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:31 pm

oh, was it catboi that claimed neighborizer pick?

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:31 pm

Andante: 2 -

Claimed Tracker

skitter30: 3
midwaybear: 5 -

Flipped Lime Doctor

Mare: 6 -

Claimed Neighborizer

innocentvillager: 10 -

Flipped Universal Backup

SirCakez: 12 -

Flipped Draft Cop

Faker: 14 -

Flipped Vanilla (1-Shot Watcher)

catboi: 21

Claimed Vanilla (Neighborizer)

PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 + coin flip victory
Datisi: 1
northsidegal: 8 + coin flip victory -

Claimed Vanilla (One-Shot Vig)

Sleepless Assassin: 8 -

Flipped Vanilla (Roleblocker)

flow trap: 9 + coin flip victory -

Claimed Vanilla (Neighborizer)

Something_Smart: 9.

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:33 pm

Mena is the vig then

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:35 pm

I think pooky would always want a vig as either alignment

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:36 pm

actually if both are scum, pooky being vig and catboi being neighborizer would make a lot more sense than a lot of other combos

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:37 pm

catboi's a good enough player to make use of the neighborizer

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:38 pm

okay so why exactly is a catboi flip the conclusion from all this

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:43 pm

maybe I'll take the time to make up the VCs now

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:32 pm

In post 1573, northsidegal wrote:i guess i'm somewhere around here

{nsg}
{andante, flow}
{IV, mare, SS}
{skitter, cakez, SA, pooky, faker, datisi} - null
{midway}

i predict that i will probably scumread sleepless assassin after he makes his big post. really don't know how to feel about datisi – i see all of the things that people are prodding him over and i see his responses and and i understand his responses completely and despite maybe seeming unlikely on the surface i feel like i relate to how all of them could be genuine... but i don't know if that makes him town or just means that the things people are pushing him for aren't actually scummy. in other words, i don't really read his posts as towny, but none of the reasons people seem to be giving or talking about for him being scum really resonate with me.

midway still seems scummy but i'm unsatisfied voting there with such a large null pool to sort.

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:08 pm

lol

the midwaybear flashwagon was literally only flow trap voters

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:08 pm

I'm not counting flow trap's vote since it was there for way longer than that

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:15 pm

Spoiler: Day 1 VCs

you're welcome

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:16 pm

Spoiler: my version just so I don't lose it

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:19 pm

the main thing I'm getting from this is that I don't think skitter30 is town at all

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:23 pm

eh actually I skimmed a couple things and I no longer think that's a very strong read

scum were most likely just hard camping sleepless if I had to guess

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:45 pm

didn't you lock that townread on me when you were high or something

I don't remember you ever explaining that and I'm pretty certain that was before any point that I'd consider myself as having distinctly left my scumrange

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:50 pm

I didn't think you did

and that's why I find it odd

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:54 pm

people who have next to no knowledge about how I play the game, when experiencing me with a town PM, either hard scumread me or just never really understand how they should be reading me

it's very rare that people hard townread me when I'm not fully engaged into a game without being pretty familiar with how I play the game, which is almost always from players I've played in both a town and a scum hydra with in the past

it's different if the read is mostly based on flow trap, but strong town reads on me at that stage in the game is... at best very odd

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:55 pm

In post 4620, Kaiji wrote:
In post 4618, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I didn't think you did

and that's why I find it odd
considering you have like no meta on me it is odd to me that you are calling it odd

i found the way you were looking at the game and appraoching it similar to mine - except im much more proactive and you are reactive

who would you confidently say is town and would bet your pride on the read?

I can only answer this in a context of never getting any more flips again

but in that specific context, Andante and Mare

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:58 pm

In post 4620, Kaiji wrote:considering you have like no meta on me it is odd to me that you are calling it odd

i found the way you were looking at the game and appraoching it similar to mine - except im much more proactive and you are reactive

I actually can believe this

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:04 pm

I guess I'd have to see how you operate from a scum perspective to understand it properly since that type of playstyle also seems like it would work less and less well as scum skill increases

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:08 pm

I meant as me being scum

sorry, that was ambiguous

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:03 am

UNVOTE:

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:58 pm

good talk

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:26 am

catboi what exactly are your reads looking like atm

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:28 am

In post 4653, catboi wrote:But further than that, the midwaybear kill is a chaos kill, and generally that type of kill indicates someone on scum is feeling pretty safe in their position

this isn't the first guess I would say for that tbh

it probably means that the scumteam aren't expecting any of them to be flipped anytime soon and are kind of banking on it, which means having any confirmed town would potentially cause issues for that

having them be in objectively good spots doesn't naturally follow though, I've seen scumteams do that kind of thing before and having one flip just ruin the whole game for them

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:31 am

even if skitter is scum, I don't think it's actually correct to flip her unless we have very good reason to believe she's the vig

if she's town, I think the game moves to being unwinnable more often than not

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:26 pm

I'm stupid in the brain parts

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:28 pm

Nothing that's been posted in the last three pages has been interesting to me

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:29 pm

Aka I still don't have a reason to rethink my PoE at all

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:36 pm

I don't think she holds neighborizer as scum n1

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:37 pm

I'm pretty content to read kaiji indirectly rather than directly, although gun to heat I think he's probably town

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:38 pm

I might have jumped the gun on SS but I think that's not too important to determine or not atm

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:44 pm

Actually, I had a thought

Shocking, I know

VCA night actually be useful, just have to change what I'm looking for

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:22 pm

okay

what scumteam would she be with that would allow her to forget about having a night action

Alyssa The Lamb · Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am

If mena isn't going to play and we can't get a replacement for him, he just needs to go

Alyssa The Lamb · Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:29 am

Menalque hasn't posted in 6 days

Nights are 2 days

Alyssa The Lamb · Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:06 am

Alright I'll wait until at least then

Alyssa The Lamb · Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:40 pm

I wonder if all this butting heads is just all town and scum are just giggling in the back at how dumb we're being

Alyssa The Lamb · Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:56 pm

Why check skitter

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:25 am

In post 4956, Datisi wrote:if this were any other game, i'd recommend yeeting outside of mena/catboi to see if mena dies or not, but if we hit green it's probably not gonna be looking great, and i don't think we manage to actually agree on a scumread

In post 4972, Datisi wrote:i absolutely do not want to noflip

mena isn't going to die because his slot will continue to look garbage and we'll be stuck in the same shit tomorrow, except it actually will be mylo

Humhum

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:29 am

I'm thinking it's Datisi/Menalque/? atm

Gut tells me it's probably one of S_S/Kaiji

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:35 am

I'm thinking out loud

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:48 am

real question Catboi

if you were scum with Menalque, and he was a vengeful, what would you have done in that scenario?

specifically, where menalque is about to come back after almost being replaced

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:22 am

if I was scum, I'd kill whichever slot I think is either the most likely to be able to correctly untangle everything or whichever slot would give the least information upon a flip tonight

PRs are very unlikely to be meaningful if scum have a trajectory to have a perfect win atm

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:24 am

the quality of players here is enough that I think mena would be able to put together a good argument overnight

I fully believe that at minimum, all of catboi/S_S/skitter/myself are more than capable of helping him with that

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:25 am

I think mena is scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:26 am

In post 5089, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 5086, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:the quality of players here is enough that I think mena would be able to put together a good argument overnight

I fully believe that at minimum, all of catboi/S_S/skitter/myself are more than capable of helping him with that
I disagree with you including me in this, but you're probably right that if he's scum he has at least one teammate who can.

you'd at least be able to be someone to bounce ideas off of

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:28 am

You all planned it fine

Just we didn't push through fast enough before we started realizing we were off

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:31 am

Who is a mastermind type of scum in this PL other than me?

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:42 am

I don't know anything about datisi or ydrasse as scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:52 am

In post 5110, Mare wrote:Alyssa you just saw me in Holiday as scum but I am an insane scum player in the sense that I will do anything on a whim to see how it goes and get hives when I have to stick to a plan.

I don't feel like that was a good game to use as an example though

Alyssa The Lamb · Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:03 pm

In post 4796, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Actually, I had a thought

Shocking, I know

VCA night actually be useful, just have to change what I'm looking for

Wonder if I should actually follow up on this since I only have one thing to catch up on after work instead of thirty

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:46 pm

ya I'm pretty done if Mena is town

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:31 pm

if scum have a n3 vig, then I become even more convinced that menalque has to be scum lol

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:38 pm

I can see a tinfoil scenario where Skitter + Andante are both scum

but tbh if that's the case then I think they just deserve the win so I won't bother humoring it

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:45 pm

In post 5214, skitter30 wrote:agian, i 100% would have shot faker as scum there
i'm saying, though, i wouldn't have done so because she was FOS'ing me

i also think that most scumteams shoot faker that night

pedit i mean i would try to be nice regardless of my alignment

pedit2 possibly where andante claimed, i don't remember exactly what i said. i did explicitly say she was telling the truth about her role multiple times, at least once to you

ftr

this type of thing is exactly why I was suspecting that skitter was a cop yesterday, so the fact that it's based on mechanical reasons is a particularly strong argument to me

especially because I generally don't give two shits about this kind of thing most of the time

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:56 pm

In post 5238, Kaiji wrote:because the inno from mena is 100% to take skitter off the table here

why

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:14 pm

I'm not convinced by any of this

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:16 pm

Idk dude

I don't see how it's productive to scum for the fake claimed cop to claim an innocent result on their n3 vig

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:16 pm

Yes???

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:18 pm

If skitter is the n3 vig then menalque doesn't need to do shit

Just claim an innocent result on a town that is remotely reasonable to investigate and then don't leave that paper trail behind

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 pm

Assuming that that's whats going on assumes that scum are either afraid or really need to get a perfect win at all costs already

And thats really not the case here

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:21 pm

That's the type of shit scum do when they have no endgame

I find it really hard to believe that the majority of scumteams in this game thing they're not significantly advantaged in this gamestate

If anything, scum just need to maintain their standings and avoid doing anything too crazy and they just win, scum don't do these fucking gambits unless they have to

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:22 pm

In post 5297, Kaiji wrote:
In post 5294, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:If skitter is the n3 vig then menalque doesn't need to do shit

Just claim an innocent result on a town that is remotely reasonable to investigate and then don't leave that paper trail behind
ok alyssa

but does this supposed more optimal scenario

mean that 100% scum didn't do my proposed scenario

Does it disprove it, no

Do I think it's the action that most scumteams would have done here, no

There's a pretty major difference between the two

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:23 pm

If your theory is right, I expect it's right because of laziness and not because he wanted to protect the vig

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:24 pm

In post 5305, Andante wrote:
In post 5301, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:That's the type of shit scum do when they have no endgame

I find it really hard to believe that the majority of scumteams in this game thing they're not significantly advantaged in this gamestate

If anything, scum just need to maintain their standings and avoid doing anything too crazy and they just win, scum don't do these fucking gambits unless they have to
So like, kinda what SS is doing? meaning he might be maf?

He kinda just floats in general iirc

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:31 pm

Like I can see a scenario where menalque just arbitrarily yoloclaims a guilty out of nowhere and just chooses whatever scum partner of his to claim an innocent result on

But I also fully believe that it would only happen because he knows that he's in some shit and about to be flipped, and that it would make a lot more sense to do what would benefit the team the most, which would mean discussing with them what he's going to do

And I really struggle to find a reason why it would make the most sense to just draw attention to the n3 vig by claiming an inno on them from a scum partner about to go down, it's not like skitter has been a front runner for the kill all day or anything

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:33 pm

Is this what I sounded like a couple years ago?

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:43 pm

Tbh the one thing I find odd about how skitter is playing is that her read on me reads as really one dimensional

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:44 pm

Do you think Mare would have at least tried to hint at it

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:45 pm

In post 5344, skitter30 wrote:it is, you haven't really done anything to make me change my mind from flow

This is like... the opposite of pretty much every other time we've been in the same game with you as town

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:50 pm

In post 5348, skitter30 wrote:
pedit in what way

You've never been this passive about it before, at least not outside of the games where I'm getting mega paranoid of you every 5 pages

It's like a lot of my posts don't even enter your mind and the times they do, it's like you don't actually think about them

It's really really odd

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:01 pm

frankly, if I see another mena vote, I'm probably just going to hammer it

I'd rather just rip the bandaid off in either direction

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:01 pm

if he is legit being replaced in two hours, I'll wait for that at least

Alyssa The Lamb · Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:15 pm

happy birthday andante!

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:07 am

It's ok I'm sick of me too

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:18 am

Hi

Your slot claimed the rolecop and didn't give their results yet

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:46 am

Because Menalque did it in the most suspicious way possible and you also did

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:06 am

Do not end before I can post again pls

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:06 am

I had a thought that I want to think through before we go into night

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:27 am

Where what

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:31 am

k

Enchant is lolcatting

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:43 am

My thought was related to no kill today and I no longer support that so

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:52 am

Did we ever finish massclaim

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 8:55 am

I feel like the team is within like

Enchant/Kaiji/SS/Datisi

Andante/Skitter/Mare/Catboi all read town to me

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:11 am

I haven't seen anything from you that I feel like i can townread

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:14 am

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:19 am

Idk what scum pooky does

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:20 am

Somehow I feel like ascetic cop isn't what he would jump for as town though

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:21 am

In post 5472, Datisi wrote:mmm

i think it's safe to assume that the scum highest in draft goes for cop

do we have any security in knowing that there has to be at least one scum above pooky in draft?

You, Kaiji, SS, and me are below

Skitter, andante, Enchant, and mare are above

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:22 am

Not Enchant, whoever I'm forgetting

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:25 am

VOTE: Enchant

Might just tune out for the rest of the day

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:47 am

If you think I'm defending Enchant, you're smoking some pretty hardcore shit

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:09 am

Alyssa The Lamb · Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:18 pm

pagetop

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:04 am

UNVOTE:

I want to think a bit more actually

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:17 am

What scum are doing

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:41 pm

I've been at work this entire time

Literally chill

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:22 pm

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:23 pm

My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:27 pm

You really see no issues with giving a scum Enchant that potential avenue to manipulate the game into a favorable endgame, which similarly puts very little to no credibility in his check?

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:34 pm

In post 5604, skitter30 wrote:is your issue that the proposed check is you, or with the entire notion of no-limming today

Latter

I don't care at all that I'm the proposed check

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:34 pm

In post 5606, Kaiji wrote:case pooky/mena/enchant for me

or alternatively:

scumcase skitter

towncase catboi

its incredibly easy to solve a cop slot with checks because of how tied they are.

if even 1 check doesnt line up with reality its a strong point against them being real.

so lets hear it.

Go away

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:36 pm

Because that was the thought I was referring to a while ago and I haven't had the time to properly assess it since I've been busy with all my obligations for weeks now

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:44 pm

idk

I guess I'm a non-content poster then

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:45 pm

you're not getting cases from me so I guess you're stuck in your tunnel on me for the rest of the game

gl with that one

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:47 pm

In post 5630, skitter30 wrote:
In post 5601, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free
and i guess from your pov, can you answer the following questoins plz:

- why did mena pick a guilty on catboi
- who is the scumteam most likely to kill?

pedit fair enuf
although i think my trying-ness has kinda slacked off these past irl days, do with that as you will

mena probably picked catboi because it's easy to explain and it's not a slot that most people would be that willing to go to bat for since he's known for his scumgame

who the scumteam is going to kill really depends on who exactly is scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:48 pm

In post 5506, schadd_ wrote:
quizá por eso te vas, quizá por eso regresas

vote count 3.5 !

Enchant (3):
Kaiji, catboi, Alyssa The Lamb

Andante (1):
Mare

no execution (1):
Enchant

not voting (4):
Something_Smart, Datisi, skitter30, Andante

9 are alive, and it takes 5 votes to reevaluate someone's considerations. day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-01-30 04:45:00)

other ideas
did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?

did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

and kaiji is vla until sunday

here's my question for you skitter:

what exactly are scum doing if enchant is town?
what exactly are scum doing if enchant is scum?

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:57 pm

when you consider that day 2 had fuck all for information to work with, then yeah I don't want to flip slots that give zero information

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:58 pm

I want to hammer so bad

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:58 pm

I'll wait until this back and forth is done

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:14 pm

bye

VOTE: Enchant

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:15 pm

I hope kaiji is scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:18 pm

ngl I really hope the game just ends because I really have no interest in playing this out anymore

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:20 pm

keep telling that to yourself

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:21 pm

you're not dying

because the moment you do, the game becomes playable again

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:42 pm

Hahahahahahahahaha

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:43 pm

Joy I get to experience more getting bitched at

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:49 pm

You're not going to get shit from a check

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:50 pm

Fuck it I'm done

VOTE: No Elim

Let's just finish the trainwreck so we can get on with our lives

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:50 pm

Fuck off Kaiji

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:53 pm

this is almost as bad as playing with RC

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:55 pm

trust me it's not

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:10 pm

In post 5750, Kaiji wrote:moreso a message to alyssa if they're town to consider some critical thinking in why i would be motivated to post so much and out activity everyone

I really don't care

you've effectively destroyed my motivation to give a shit in this game so either you're town and have to prove that the weight you're throwing around is worthwhile or you're scum and you used that as a tactic to win

either way it doesn't mean anything to me

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:15 pm

if that is a genuine sentiment

then you're actually blind

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:18 pm

none of that was complaining

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:21 pm

like I did the best I could with what I had

I actually can't do shit when the game itself is lethargic and there's nothing to work off of

and now you're also bitching that nothing is happening and people aren't doing what you want, except you literally tried to shut me out when I engaged you on something, and then ever since you've been doing this fucking asspull logic where I'm apparently not doing anything just because I'm not willing to engage you on that

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:22 pm

btw I never said you're playing poorly

I said you're being completely insufferable

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:27 pm

In post 5601, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:My prevailing thought regarding no kill is that Enchant, if scum, just claims a guilty on a town, the scumteam kill whatever town is most likely to see through the deception, and they just need to convince whatever other towns are left that they're right and they're simply home free

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:29 pm

In post 5772, Kaiji wrote:my apologies if i said something that felt shutting down - i am autistic and miss cues and directly telling me does help me recalibrate and realize what im doing (which is what im doing now)

I do believe this, I'll back off

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:31 pm

if the slot that dies is one of Mare/Andante, then we have to determine whether the other has a genuine action or if they're scumpartners

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:59 pm

I mean

looking back through Enchant's ISO, it looks a lot less terrible than it did the first time

I think I got caught up a bit in outside noise when assessing their entrance

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:59 pm

plus I still have no clue what his scumpartners are doing if he's scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:42 pm

sigh

this most recent thing is almost a step by step match of the game I was scum with her

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:28 am

menalque didn't claim until this exact day phase

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:28 am

and there was zero reason he would ever die n1 or n2

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:51 am

I'm still kinda confused why any scum team with Andante in it kills mwb and has her not confirm his action

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:53 am

That's still my primary issue with Andante being scum, and the way she acted for most of the game is not congruent with either of my previous games with her, both of which she was scum in

And I even caught her out in the game we were TvS in for a personality quirk she had that isn't present in this game

And she was caught in the other game for pretty similar reasons

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:55 am

And there are town reasons for her getting more fed up and just doing the minimum as the day went on

And the differences in seeing in how she's playing make more sense with her as town than scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:07 am

Mare can you paraphrase your neighborhood for me please

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:08 am

I'm kinda running out of slots that can be scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:12 am

I'm hitting a point where I can't possibly see Datisi and skitter as both town

I think it's actually impossible

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:27 am

Hold up

If we no lim, then what exactly happens if I'm the one that dies

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:28 am

UNVOTE:

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:29 am

You

I like you

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:30 am

I didn't actually mean to post that once I saw the pedits

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:48 am

In post 5939, Galron wrote:And Alyssa always comes across as town and it's Day 3 so ugh

What

Don't we only have one game

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:54 am

W h a t

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:55 am

Okay

What does the day 3 comment mean

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 am

Me being alive?

That's not indicative since I replaced a scum read slot n1 and scum made a weird kill n2

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 am

Enchant has a claimed cop guilty on catboi

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:25 pm

Do you think that's inherently scum indicative

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:30 pm

Okay why

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:38 pm

In post 5936, Galron wrote:Are we mass claiming and/or am I claiming for a reason?

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:40 pm

I really don't think scum needs to stall that

Just knowing that he's top in draft is enough that most scum would just focus on it; unless he's extremely ignorant as scum, focusing on other stuff just makes more sense, especially since there really isn't that much of a reason outside of your pov for him to claim off the bat like that

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:41 pm

In post 5958, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:I really don't think scum needs to stall that

For clarity

In that particular way

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:42 pm

And FYI galron

We massclaimed and the vig is unclaimed

We assumed almost off the bat that it's a scum vig shot and it appears to be confirmed now

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:49 pm

What part

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:58 pm

I'm off work soon if you want to bounce stuff off me

I was townreading Andante for most of the game

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:27 pm

Okay I actually did see a town Andante for a game

Just we were barely in at the same time and I was never engaged so i don't count it

Alyssa The Lamb · Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:08 pm

alright good talk

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:29 am

In post 5990, catboi wrote:Extremely conveniently timed re-evaluation on Andante's slot

surely nothing else could have motivated this change

what exactly is this referring to

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:53 am

In post 5992, catboi wrote:
In post 5991, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:
In post 5990, catboi wrote:Extremely conveniently timed re-evaluation on Andante's slot

surely nothing else could have motivated this change
what exactly is this referring to
galron comes into the game and goes "why aren't we voting catboi"

suddenly kaiji's scumteam is me/mare/datisi after they were calling for andante's head the past few pages and having a chuckle about how galron was outed for not claiming right away

beyond obvious it's not an honest evaluation and is purely conditional on him having reads that are beneficial to kaiji

this feels really reachy

most of Galron's content was between the two as well as a night of sleep

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:01 am

we also have two separate slots that claimed neighborizer row is already taken, including myself

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:58 am

In post 5926, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Mare can you paraphrase your neighborhood for me please

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:30 am

that's incredibly worrying for Datisi's alignment

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:00 am

VOTE: Catboi

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:01 am

I don't think we should be leashing Enchant

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:03 am

I also am pretty sure scum do not have a N3 vig

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:05 am

I similarly think that Mare and Galron should not be leashed either

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:50 pm

I'm frankly almost at the point where I'm thinking it's not even worthwhile to resolve this 1v1 today again

cool

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:50 pm

this game is giving me a brain aneurysm

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:52 pm

I think the game is pretty close to making complete sense to me

just the thing is, I'm not so confident in any one side of this 1v1 to specifically want to push in that

problem is, I think the remaining two scum are in Skitter30/Datisi/Something_Smart and I'm not 100% sure on any one of them either

and I still think no kill today is not a great choice

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:53 pm

my favorite part about this game is that I think it's not even viable to kill within my second PoE because I strongly doubt there will ever be enough support to make any of them work today

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:54 pm

oh right I was going to look at VCs again

what was I wanting to search for again, idr

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:03 pm

In post 4598, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Alyssa The Lamb [3] – Mare, catboi, Datisi

Three unconfirmed slots, all of which stayed on this wagon for quite a few pages

there's no way in hell this is all town, this is exactly the type of wagon I expect scum to want to park on

In post 4598, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:Alyssa The Lamb [4] – Skitter30, Datisi,
Sleepless Assassin
, catboi
Sleepless Assassin [4] – Andante, Kaiji, Mare, Menalque

Virtually all the unconfirmed slots are on these two wagons

My POV, both wagonees are town. Even if you don't and assume I'm scum instead, it becomes a question of whether scum are more likely to bus or try to save their partner

In post 4598, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:P125

Sleepless Assassin [6] – Kaiji, Menalque, Andante, catboi, midwaybear, Faker
Alyssa The Lamb [4] - Sleepless Assassin, Mare, Skitter30, Datisi
midwaybear [3] – Alyssa The Lamb, InnocentVillager, SirCakez
Faker [1] - Something_Smart

Not Voting [0] –

EOD1

Sleepless Assassin
[8] – Kaiji, Menalque, Andante, catboi,
midwaybear
,
Faker
, Mare, Skitter30
Alyssa The Lamb [5] -
Sleepless Assassin
, Datisi,
InnocentVillager
,
SirCakez
, Something_Smart

midwaybear
[1] – Alyssa The Lamb

Not Voting [0] –

This is minorly +town for Skitter and +scum for Something_Smart

I don't think it's necessarily indicative that scum aren't all on the same wagon, but that assumption requires the NSG (Kaiji) slot to be town to work

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:03 pm

think I convinced myself that skitter is the town of the three

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:07 pm

if I'm wrong on any one slot, it's exactly Mare, the reason I have for townreading her is the weakest out of all of them

I'm trusting my process on Andante slot being town
The game makes more sense with NSG being town, and I was suspecting that she was town off the D1 stuff I found (and with the knowledge that her activity is virtually never AI in this case); I also don't think Kaiji needs to go this hard and in so many directions in this type of gamestate at all

The game makes a lot more sense with catboi being the third scum rather than Enchant; I'm actually suddenly very unsure that midwaybear dies as an outed doctor (that scum know is a doctor) if the scumteam were planning on the cop claim, and I think they have to plan the cop claim in order for it to work out the way it had with how Menalque played

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:07 pm

I'm comfortable with this solve now actually

Catboi + Datisi + Something_Smart feels right

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:28 pm

In post 6067, catboi wrote:why is enchant town

i don't care about finding a team that works

there is one vote today to find 1 scum

defend that slot's play on its own merits, no worldbuilding shit

In post 6068, catboi wrote:i do not need colored votecounts and arbitrary conclusions

The play from the slot is congruent enough by itself with being a cop, and even if Kaiji did cherrypick a paper trail that he had laid out before, I don't think they would kill midwaybear too

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:31 pm

I forgot to remove the neutral face, oops

that was going to be a much more snarky post but I decided against it

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:39 pm

I mean

why does anybody kill midwaybear?

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:41 pm

okay

and I think that slot is town

so if that's the reason

then why does that only apply to some slots and not other slots

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:57 pm

In post 6082, catboi wrote:
In post 6077, Alyssa The Lamb wrote:okay

and I think that slot is town

so if that's the reason

then why does that only apply to some slots and not other slots
the point is the mafia are not playing like there was the threat of a cop in play

explain this like I'm a toddler

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:58 pm

In post 6073, catboi wrote:please explain why I kill midwaybear with a possible cop in existence, because that is an outright gamethrow of a kill - further there's no reason for him to die if it's town tunneling town. was the exact same scenario in my newbie game that just ended where scum killed the person they were tunneling in the hopes people would paranoia onto each other instead - problem is logically if its a TvT deathtunnel scum have every reason to want to preserve that

who does this not apply to

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:33 pm

VOTE: Datisi

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:20 pm

the fact that it's almost exclusively my PoE that is supporting no lim is pretty illuminating to me tbh

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:29 pm

I'll support either just end the day

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:57 pm

the thing that's annoying me is that enchant only coming in to snipe is also scummy

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:58 pm

but I haven't felt like any of catboi's recent arguments come from a town mindset

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:58 pm

skitter's recent thoughts aren't town either

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 5:58 pm

who the fuck is actually town in this game

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:00 pm

In post 6135, skitter30 wrote:
In post 6132, Kaiji wrote:rofl I have to go to sleep anyways but hf

town catboi doesn't blow up like this when pressured btw rofl

At least not in my experience.
I mean i dont think scum-catboi gets this pissed off either

idfk maybe datisi is actually town

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:01 pm

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:05 pm

so the midwaybear kill indicates one or both of:

1. scum don't want any conftowns if they can help it
2. scum want to keep mechanical play ambiguous

I don't think the scumteam actually gave a shit about a potential cop, which means they either HAVE the row it's in (enchant scum world) or they didn't find any crumbs that indicate that it's in the game and/or aren't afraid of one existing (catboi scum world) OR that they didn't want to risk adding more conftowns on top of a potential cop

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:07 pm

I wish I knew more about catboi's scumrange since I know he's supposedly a really good scum player, but I'm not entirely sure whether that thought process itself is something that scum should come up with

it's almost bizarrely TMI in a way that doesn't make any sense as scum

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:10 pm

I was going to go into how scum would want to play today in the case they have the N3 vig, but then I realized it actually makes zero sense for them to be playing with a thumb up their ass for as long as they have if they do, so that's back to out

it's proven that at least one of our PRs is genuine and I'm not all that enthused about the idea that they have three

Alyssa The Lamb · Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:14 pm

I'm kinda swinging back to Enchant being the scum in the duo

Pooky/Menalque 'acting' like they're a cop is actually not very compelling now that I think about it

I feel like a BoP on catboi to be coming up with better arguments than he is when he's scum fits, and the fact that they're kinda all over the place and not saying much of anything fits a tilted town mindset

night 3 vigilante	or	vengeful
1-shot vigilante	or	2-shot PGO (active)
ascetic cop	or	bulletproof
draft cop	or	1-shot watcher
lime doctor	or	roleblocker
universal backup	or	rolecop
neighborizer	or	voyeur
jailkeeper	or	tracker