Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Greeting]

Hello, humans!

[Greeting]

Hiya hes, shes, and they

Second non hydra game on here let's gooooo

Oh, I know you from MU. We played together there. Welcome to MS.

[Greeting]

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

Ah andante.

What? I'm not

Andante

nor an alt.

[Greeting]

Eh, shouldn't have bolded her as she's not even in this game. Anyway, I am surprised that you would think this, considering that I remember you from a past game where we played together. And Andante was in it as well.

[Greeting]

I have finished catching up with the game.

I am not voting

GuiltyLion

today. His posts struck me as the most towny so far, and it is honestly rare for any mafia to put in so much effort into sorting early in the game. In-depth analysis is usually town-indicative. (242) The entrance post rang as quite genuine too. (26)

I played with

fireisredsir

before. I would write him off as town for tone and intent solely, but I am not as confident of the towniness of this slot as I am of

GuiltyLion

. My gut tells me that when he rolls mafia, he is a deepwolf. His playing style changed since our last game together too, he's far more laid-back and chill. My experience with him, however, does confirm that he is player who really likes making reads over meta. He mentioned this in this game (86), which is a plus for honesty and self-awareness. I don't think this is a good candidate for a Day 1 elimination either.

Dannflor

seems towny, but for some reason absolutely none of his posts stayed in my mind while reading the thread, and I re-discovered them only by looking at the playerlist. His scumreads seem reasonable and justified (but not sure if they're right). So yeah, he can stay, I guess.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
(people to potentially vote out today, and that also includes anyone I haven't mentioned in this post and who is in this game)

furtiveglance

seems much less serious about this game than he was in Newbie 2095. Still, I remember him getting more heavily invested as Day 1 was coming to an end and I pushed him off the hill. But yeah, re-reading his posts so far, I cannot townclear him so far in any way.

I am not sure why

Roden

is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

I don't like

Radical Rat

in this game at all. The coded messages are a nice touch and fit into the theme, but it's also a way for a mafia to hide under the spotlight and get written off as witty town. Make no mistake, this a potential deepwolf.

Vivax

seems less witty than usual.

VOTE: Radical Rat

[Greeting]

Anyway, I am tired and will continue making reads tomorrow. xo

[Greeting]

Witty = town then apparently.

Depends on the player. Some are naturally witty when town, and being scum causes them to act in weird ways, because they start to take the game more seriously.

I don't like that vote on Radical Rat

Can you elaborate more on how Rat seems to be "hiding under the spotlight?" I don't understand why your vote is there over anywhere else

In my opinion, he has higher scum potential because of his way of posting in this game. While it is aesthetically nice and fits the theme of the game, it can also get him written off as too weird/NAI/witty. Which is why a little pressure there wouldn't hurt.

and like there are pre-established wagons on all of furtive / roden / vivax who are in your "potential votes" category

which is both awfully convenient and also makes it weirder that you would choose a vanity wagon without much of a case over one of them

Why would you have me jump on a pre-existing wagon?

[Greeting]

Furtive not being serious means idk what because he was plenty serious in Chromavalon. Being lighthearted is probably a good thing since scum are less likely to be.

Well, his posting so far didn't really allow me to see the intent behind the posts (and this is the main thing which dictates my reads in mafia games) so I had to base the read off tone and meta. The results were inconclusive. I know that he can make good cases if he wants to, but he hasn't showed this yet. I'm not going to scumread him for it though, because it's still early Day 1 and the leading wagon (

Roden

) made four NAI posts. So nothing important happened yet.

[Greeting]

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

I don't know if this was directed to me or anything. If you want to interact with me then you have to be very clear that the question is directed at me, because otherwise my brain will just decide it's not worth my effort.

As for my Day 1 strategy, it's pretty much work with what we've got, so leave the towniest out of the PoE and pick someone from the PoE. Because there will be no classic Day 2 or Day 3 for that matter and I don't want to be choosing between two lurkers.

[Greeting]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

[Greeting]

Vivax seems less witty than usual.

Nothing to say on the actual substance of Vivax's posts?

There's not much of it. The thing with

Vivax

is he likes to troll around. In this game he seems to be more invested and defensive, which I think for him is a bad sign.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

[Greeting]

Okay, well, I think

KittyTacky

is more likely town than scum.

Posts 368, 373 are made by town and exhibit a towny mindset. Plus this registers in my mind as something

KittyTacky

would say. So yeah, he's out of the PoE for Day 1.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

I can see that he started posting actual content, but I go chronologically and haven't gotten there yet.

[Greeting]

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

in the coalition game you were significantly more townie when pressured. Coalition Micro

similarly in Fusion Upick

when you're scum you tend to kind of don't have that kind of edge/angry tone in your voice.

You don't have the same kind of edge when defending yourself and it feels like you're not quite really here and more importantly you don't feel like you want to be here.

SCP
Radio Buzz


I understand from your last completed mini normal[2276] you were fustrated over being nightkilled on n1 and perhaps not wanting to be nightkilled would be a valid explanation for maybe not being as townie as you have been in the past but this game is not really that sort of game.

in this game, scum can't just shoot the towniest townies - it would be quite suicidal of them to do so because it would make the 1v1s quite lopsided, they have to actually shoot in the murky middle so to speak, as a result you should be trying to be as townie as possible but it doesn't feel like you're enthusiastic about this game at all.

Dang, this is spot on when it comes to

Roden

. I mean, I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment and I think scum

Aristeia

would not have a purpose to make such a post.

Yeah, my next step is analysing

Roden

's ISO in this game.

[Greeting]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

Really weird comment. I don't agree with RR being 'obvious scum'.

Mini's Scumhunting Kit

Scumtell "Being "jokingly" scummy, self-admitting they are scummy, claiming scum". Most players have done this, including myself, but

RR

took it to a higher level.

[Greeting]

So apparently analysing and voting

Roden

should be my priority now. Let's look at his ISO.

Roden

is emotional when town, hates being wrongly accused, fiercely fights back when wrongly accused.

Roden

is much colder when scum.

This shouldn't be hard.

His game start was... bad. I know that he tends to get eliminated Day 1 really often and he's limbait pretty much though. That's why I wanted to cut him some slack and give him a chance to prove himself and why I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game. Nonetheless, it also does feel like a convenient excuse to not make an entrance and sneak back in the game only once it's started.

I noticed that

Loki Dokie

is being unusually aggressive in pursuing

Roden

for essentailly a naked vote in 188. The justification being that:

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

This sounds like a very highly personal read and apparently un-outed alts are involved too, so it's also not provable. Sorry

Loki Dokie

, but on the surface this is a bad reason to push a read so strongly. That is a minus for scum

Roden

in my books actually.

Still,

Roden

's attitude towards this game doesn't seem very towny.

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

Ngl I opened up the browser when I got home, quoted the Loki post, and then just smoked and went on youtube for a few hours instead

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

Where's the scumhunting energy? All I see is never ending excuses for why there is none.

[Greeting]

Roden

, please explain who is your biggest scumread right now and why.

[Greeting]

Loki Dokie

, you are creating artificial and unnecessary pressure for a

Roden

wagon. It's true that his ISO isn't very towny, but this is not obvscum. If you're town, then take a step back and let him explain himself.

[Greeting]

I'm becoming increasingly confident on Greeting, and Vivax hasn't really changed my mind, but I think I'll move my vote in the interests of momentum.

Greeting is playing, quite literally, like a robot.

VOTE: Greeting

How so?

[Greeting]

I need to take a break for a while, but this is a reminder to myself to look into

Roden

's scumread of

furtiveglance

.

[Greeting]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

[Greeting]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

If the push on you truly is this “horrible, then why tf wouldn’t you want to address it? If the reasons are bad, debunk them then but all of “this push on me is bad, scum on my wagon” etc, without addressing literally any of it, is really not compelling.

If this actually is in fact a “shitpush”, I think you should be able to explain why.

The push on Kitty otoh actually is bad because he hasn’t actually done anything scummy but first you call RR a “potential deep wolf” for something entirely nia, hedge on Roden and then accuse him of making “excuses” for apparently not scumhunting and then want to look at his furtive case, he made BEFORE furtive unvoted him. Meanwhile, you haven’t argued why any of the reasoning for voting you is bad.

Fine. I am analysing

furtiveglance

right now, but if you really want me to explain my actions deeper then here you go.

I don't play like a robot. I understand that it's said for the purpose of a mafia game, regardless of whether

furtiveglance

is town or mafia, but I actually find this borderline offensive and I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

I stand by my

Radical Rat

read. In my experience, this is a player who is a deepwolf and I interpret the coded speech as a mask they wear to mask the awkwardness of having to write their first posts in a game. Being mafia is stressful, you need to watch your words much more than when you're town. Not only not to give yourself out, but also voting out a mafia is a lot more harmful to the mafia team because of their lesser numbers. Their response to my accusation was that they stopped the coded speech (354), and immediately went on the counteroffensive (355, 450), while dismissing the importance of my tell instead of even acknowledging it. Before you ask why I think

RR

is a potential deepwolf - the best answer I can give is gut/observation.

You're playing an extremely offensive (as in, the opposite of defensive) game and from what I've gathered, the core of your read on me is based on my entrance post. You might argue that you've caught inconsistency in 452, but chronologically your suspicion and even vote of me of me predates that post, which means that this isn't scumhunting, but looking for arguments to support an already pre-existing thesis. That's not how logic works, and the timing of your current vote suggests you're just riding the wave of suspicion on any townie you can find.

And I worry more about my reads being correct than consistent. If they're not, it means I reevaluated.

All in all, this is a shit push and the scum amongst the three of you have a lot to gain from miseliminating me today as it may not be possible for town to hold you accountable for this later in the game.

[Greeting]

So,

Roden

scumreads

furtiveglance

for behavior from Newbie 2095. That was a fun game, where I pushed both of them off the hill. I think grudges could be in play here when it comes to

furtiveglance

's push on me, but that's just a side observation.

In Newbie 2095,

furtiveglance

got straight to work almost instantly. When pleasantries were over, around page 4, he started making early reads. By post 195, he had a full readslist. After that, he was very dedicated to the town cause.

In this game, his ISO is dominated by single, short posts, which give little insight as to what is his intention. It's more like just... loafing around. His reads are shallow, seemingly in random places. Earlier in the game,

furtiveglance

, attempted to question

Aristeia

(275, 276), which resulted in

Aristeia

making a very towny, accurate observation post (374) which made me townbin her almost instantly. Interestingly enough, in spite of all the questioning,

furtiveglance

did not react to 374 at all. This points slightly more towards mafia

furtiveglance

, as the mafia explanation for this is that this wasn't genuine scumhunting, but putting on pressure for the show.

Now, as for what

Roden

claimed, I do see some merit in this claim. Looks like he pre-determined

Roden

's alignment early on, and did not substantiate the claim (192).

Roden

does have a tendency to play more on the defensive than offensive. Still, the reaction on

Roden

's part is slightly exagerrated - but fits overall his emotional playstyle. It's like one of those things that slip away unconsciously. People may point out that you're emotional, you're trying to be more calm, but a slight overreaction on the side still happens from time to time. This works in

Roden

's favour here though.

(The post I am referring to is 252. The argument presented is like really unfitting too, because

Roden

is one of the most pocket-wary players I've ever played with on MafiaScum.)

Interestingly enough,

furtiveglance

never voted

Roden

despite claiming he's scum and yet he points out the same about me and

Vivax

. The argument itself is fair, but its usage in this context is manipulative. Here's the post in question.

This reminds me, Greeting shading Vivax without showing a desire to vote them makes me happy with both as scumreads.

He also goes to great lengths to pocket people. To the point where it looks ironic.

What I find probably the most weird is that

furtiveglance

literally lost a game of mafia to me as town and didn't use a single argument from that game to support his supposed scumread of me. Not sure about others, but I would definitely remember to use that kind of meta.

This is a much better and more convincing case than

Radical Rat

to be fair.

furtiveglance

's ISO is chaotic and erratic, and does not have the level of insight he showed in Newbie 2095.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Greeting]

Side note, but

furtiveglance

flipping red does not townclear

Roden

. This could very well be s/s. Still, if that is the case,

furtiveglance

is the weaker link here.

[Greeting]

Hiya hes, shes, and they

Second non hydra game on here let's gooooo

Oh, I know you from MU. We played together there. Welcome to MS.

Wait who are you

My username on there is West. I didn't play many games there, like 4 at the most.

[Greeting]

actually I also just noticed that this:

I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game.

is dissonant from this:

I am not sure why Roden is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

if you consciously ignored his posts, why did you feel the need to say you're not sure why he's a wagon? like I get possibly wanting to cut Roden some early game slack and not join the wagon, but you actually defended him here moreso than just ignore the situation. and if you were truly like "I'm not going to try to read anything into his posts at all", then you definitely should not have been questioning a wagon on him

You have just said that every justification I said in this game feels fake to you. If that's the case, then there is no point in me wasting my time talking to you. Feel free to vote me.

[Greeting]

For the record, I think

GuiltyLion

is town. But I'm not fighting battles I can't win.

Come back if you actually want to talk, game solve and discuss, rather then find arguments to support a pre-existing thesis.

[Greeting]

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

Why do you think you have the right to judge whether my reactions are appropriate or not? I am not having this discussion.

[Greeting]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

[Greeting]

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

Why do you think you have the right to judge whether my reactions are appropriate or not? I am not having this discussion.

this is a game of mafia lol

i have the right to judge whether you're scum or not

refusing to address any points made and shutting down any discussion about yourself while also accusing other people of being unwilling to work with you is very scummy

You do have the right to judge whether I'm scum or not. But you do not have the right to tell me that my reactions are not appropriate. I also have the right to not work with players who I think are scum and biased town if I don't feel like it.

[Greeting]

Perhaps it would be better for me to take a step back from this game until tomorrow.

[Greeting]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

for some reason I thought there were like 5 voters

Here, I can reach out. One of my biggest issues is that I really don't vibe with your reasoning on Rat at all - I think regardless of Rat's alignment, he as a person thought it would be fun to act as a computer for the beginning of the game. I've played with him a few times before, and I also still weirdly have a memory of reading this particular post in a very old game of his and finding it really funny. He has a sense of humor.

What I don't understand is why you seem particularly hung up on this idea that it can only be a front to mask awkwardness at the start of the game. Rat is an experienced player, I'm sure he has scumgames in the past where he didn't need to use such a front. It's just really easy for me to imagine a world where town!Rat opens the way he opened this game, it doesn't strike me as alignment indicative at all. but it feels like you're locked in on this reason you have and I don't feel you considering the alternative town!Rat world, which makes me think it's driven by agenda.

Can you recall and link me to any town games in your past where you locked on someone early game for a reason in a similar way (doesn't have to be specifically using a charade/front, could be any reason at all)? If you can show me a town game or two where you did a similar thing, push someone early for something I might find wholly NAI, it might help me see this as a playstyle issue rather than an alignment indicative one.

I also noticed Loki said you opened differently here than in past games, and I think one of Loki's strengths is accurately feeling out different meta vibes between games, so you could use this as a means of addressing that point against you as well. I felt your 402 was kinda snarky and dismissive - you didn't even ask what games he looked at

I already did the best I can do about the

Radical Rat

read in 459. I won't give anything more than I gave out there, and if that's not enough then there literally is nothing more I can do about it.

The comment in 402 was totally snarky and dismissive, because in my opinion, it's quite ridiculous to pre-decide that someone is scum because of an opening post. If this read is exemplary of

Loki Dokie

's strength of reads then well... let me not.

All of my town (and scum) games are compiled on my wiki page for your convenience. Browse away.

[Greeting]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

Have you considered that even if you fail to change someone's mind, the interactions you leave behind may be useful for the surviving Town?

I have. And then reminded myself that town almost never listens to the words of dead townies.

I will, however, continue to scumhunt for as long as I am in the game, and might reply if I feel like the interaction will be worthwhile.

[Greeting]

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

If you think that I'm mafia and this was a charade then by all means go ahead. I just said I won't take it personally, but I figured that if I want to aid the town cause then I shouldn't be hiding it.

Because then everyone will be like oh, why is he so calm and collected now when yesterday he was so snarky and aggressive.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

[Greeting]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

[Greeting]

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

If you think that I'm mafia and this was a charade then by all means go ahead. I just said I won't take it personally, but I figured that if I want to aid the town cause then I shouldn't be hiding it.

Because then everyone will be like oh, why is he so calm and collected now when yesterday he was so snarky and aggressive.

There are also a few arguments against this being a trust tell:

- I do not choose to do this;
- I do not choose when to get triggered;
- I may also get triggered when scum, it just happens less often, because I play my scum games with an, obviously, different mindset. Plus I don't really have many scum games in here so there's not a lot of examples;
- Most of the times I get it under control and sometimes I don't. This time I was unlucky.

But I understand the doubts. Sadly, there is nothing I can do about it. All I can say is that this stuff is hard to fake.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

[Greeting]

I understand why

furtiveglance

is annoyed with this. I actually had to sub out of a game in here in the past, because I didn't accept mental health as a valid excuse and unknowingly offended other players. Oh, and of course I made a fuss about it. It's quite ironic when I think about it, but I felt angry when I saw that there's other people who use theirs as an excuse while I hide mine. But looking back, it is and was just the right thing to do.

Just so you know, I would much rather be able to stay ice cold in all mafia games at all times. Absolutely nothing about what I said of my condition is fun and I do not wish it to anyone. Oh, and lying about mental health just to get townread is really vile.

Besides, there are many instances of me getting more emotional than usual in my past games. You didn't know the reason then, you know now.

But, if you consider most of 567 only an explanation for my behavioral patterns and just the last two paragraphs as an actual towncase, then you should be good to go.

I will address the other posts shortly.

[Greeting]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

That is true, he is jumping around here.

Nonetheless, the wording and the content of his posts matches the past instances where I've seen him as town. Post 368 actually gained him a soft townread from me. The statement itself is, in my opinion, completely untrue, but the fact that

KittyTacky

would even want to exhibit such a viewpoint lessened the chances of him being scum in my mind dramatically.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

I... don't remember anyone townreading me in this game when I jumped in and then switching. As a matter of fact, my impression is that I got widely scumread almost instantly (358, 360).

If I remember correctly, it

Loki Dokie

who pressured others the most into jumping on certain people. The rest didn't really seem like trying to force others to vote me. They just built lengthy cases and that's it.

Care to elaborate?

Pedit: Do you think that

Loki Dokie

is scum for exerting a lot of pressure on the current wagon they're building? I feel like in 406 he might have wanted to bait me into jump on

Roden

without even thinking if it's a good read just so I could earn myself a townread in his eyes. What kind of town play is this?

[Greeting]

For now, @Greeting

Two points I would like you to address with a clear head now:
1. Do you have a towngame to refute Loki's meta read on you?

Alright, if you really insist.

There is one scum game of mine I can mention, and that is Newbie 2095.

This was my opening post in there.

Let's go!

VOTE: Alianna

I didn't want to be creative, I wanted to be as generic as possible.

Often, I try to be quirky to get into the vibe of the game.

Newbie 2078 (my first game on MS)

Greetings. Checking in. Will post pater!

Newbie 2081

Greetings!

Prepare to be spammed with popculture gifs!

VOTE: kennyk

<gif>

Here's a Mini Normal 2262:

Greetings!

VOTE: 0verki11 because leet speak is so mid-2000s.

So yeah, I found three games by just looking into random games I've played in the past where my opening post is similar to the post here, which is:

Hello, humans!

For the record, I did not cast an RVS vote, because I subbed in and the game was past RVS.

[Greeting]

Continuing 601, my point is, the argument that the opening posts are a reliable scum tell is not true, because not only is it not consistent with my actual opening posts which I've made that are similar to the opening post I made in this game, but also with the fact that I just post whatever I feel like posting at the particular moment of the game.

Writing that sentence was exhausting.

2. Why does scum!me drop the gimmick for readability Before getting sussed for it?

My argument was that you used it as a psychological trick to hide the initial awkwardness of start of the game and content behind a veil. The argument wouldn't exist if you dropped it after one post, you continued for like 10 if I remember correctly.

If you were scum, you obviously wouldn't want to continue doing this forever, because you don't want to potentially annoy other players nor attract unnecessary attention. If you did this and had no meta on MafiaScum, ironically you could get written off as a quirky player. But, since you do have meta, people would notice the change in your behavior almost instantly.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I am off for the night. @

Vivax

, please respond to 595.

[Greeting]

Vivax

is not getting concerned or even annoyed about the pressure he's having right now. He does seem like a pretty capable player overall though. I'll need to look into one of his scum games.

I must say that this game does feel very meta-based in general too.

[Greeting]

kuti has 32 posts and i counted like, maybe 2 opinions total

hi kuti i would like to hear some more opinions plz

If I remember correctly, you really like to base your reads off meta. I have played with

kutiplz

on MU and my impression is that they sound no different to what they did in the games I've played with them on that site.

[Greeting]

I'm gonna drop this now, but safe to say my opinion is that people shouldn't bring IRL circumstances into a social deduction game, especially if some people think lying about IRL circumstances is wrong (or against site rules apparently). Because the chain of logic is 1) my IRL circumstances are making me play weirdly/scummily, 2) I can't lie about this according to the rules, 3) I am therefore town. That's just how I see it.

Oh ffs. Please read 575 and 589 if you're town and not a salty scum who is angry they didn't get an easy elim because I came clean about my mood swing episodes.

I literally said that it can happen when I'm scum, it just doesn't as often.

If you really insist on dragging this on then how about you analyse my ISO and figure out the possible reason for me having acted like I did? Was the reason for my emotions spiralling out alignment-indicative? If you think it was then I am open to discuss. If you think it wasn't, then can we just move on please, because otherwise I don't see the point in talking about it any further.

[Greeting]

I honestly think

furtiveglance

reacted the way he did in 570, 581 and 654, because he is scum. A real townie has

no reason

to be annoyed about what happened. The most logical thing to do for a town-aligned player is to accept it and look elsewhere. And that's what almost everyone did. Or, if one still thinks that I'm scum, look into my ISO and build a better, more convincing case.

Furtiveglance

did not want to let it go.

This is my best read for Day 1. It's unfortunate that it surfaced like this and I honestly feel bad that it surfaced this way, but it looks like hard proof to me. I feel like if I choose any other player or build any other case it will still be a second-best choice.

[Greeting]

My read so far in greeting/west is like I kinda don't like their attempt at buddying me. We had only played two games and idk if that makes them an expert on my meta since I play low activity in ms.


Besides the buddying, from what I have read so far, I have them as town lean ish vibes

I actually have done this in a MU game to a player I recognised from MS (Gypyx) and got "scumread" for it (Gypyx was scum). I was town. But I'm just friendly, and I like seeing familiar faces. It's not alignment indicative.

I am not sure why I can't link Mafia Universe games in here, but the game in question was Pokémaf Generation 1 Mash and the posts are #1839 (mine) and #1866 (Gypyx).

[Greeting]

RR didn't give an answer to my question of why scum!Vivax does the "didn't check if this was hammer". There's not really any reasoning for why scum!Vivax does this but not town!Vivax.

I thought I had already explained this, but not caring about the hammer demonstrates that Vivax was okay with killing Greeting. Then immediately afterwards, he sheeps your unvote to "give him a chance to respond," blaming the potentially killing vote on panic.

This makes absolutely no sense from a Town POV; why would Town panic induce bloodlust? If anything it makes far more sense to UNvote from a panic reaction as Town.

From a scum POV, there is a situation where one might panic and vote someone: For some reason, Vivax wanted to be on the wagon when Greeting dies, and was afraid the chance would be missed if he'd waited. The only reason I can think of is that Greeting is a bus wagon, and Vivax wanted the credit for participating.

Then, after it becomes apparent that Greeting ISN'T in immediate danger, Vivax backs off. Could be self-consciousness of how weird the vote was, could be that there's no reason to push a bus through if true mislims are still on the table, I don't know. But I wouldn't expect a Town player to transition so suddenly from intent to kill into allowing the target space.


So if the only explanation I can think of is that Greeting was a bus vote, why Vivax over Greeting? For one, sometimes scum does things for no reason, and that would be consistent with Vivax's other plays, so maybe Greeting's still Town in all of this. And if they are both scum, I think Vivax's presence and posting are going to be actively detrimental to the gamestate later on, and we won't have any way to deal with it unless scum decides to test him, which I don't expect to happen. So Vivax takes precedence for me.

Peer pressure is a thing. It may not even be a conscious reaction. The fact that

Vivax

briefly jumped on my wagon might not be alignment indicative at all.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Vivax

Sheeping.

Do you have any reads of your own or do you just follow random wagons?

[Greeting]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

[Greeting]

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

My read so far in greeting/west is like I kinda don't like their attempt at buddying me. We had only played two games and idk if that makes them an expert on my meta since I play low activity in ms.


Besides the buddying, from what I have read so far, I have them as town lean ish vibes

Looking back, this feels like an exagerration of what I actually did. I merely said hello and that your tone is similar. I haven't interacted with you any further, how is that buddying?

[Greeting]

KittyTacky, what is your read on Aristeia?

I second this question. And, mine from 822.

[Greeting]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a

lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me

, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Screams internally

A scum can bus a townie too? As in, throw under the bus?

[Greeting]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a lot more to gain keeping his vote on me

and bussing me,

rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Wtf?

A scum can bus a townie too? As in, throw under the bus?

[Greeting]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a

lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me

, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Screams internally

A scum can bus a townie too? As in, throw under the bus?

I just checked on the wiki and no, I'm wrong. Just substitute "throw under the bus" with "bus". That's what I meant.

The more you know.

[Greeting]

If that sentence was to be taken at face value, I would have actually claimed scum with another player, which is obviously against the rules. Sorry for the confusion. For the record, I think that

Vivax

would have been better off pushing me when it was still viable to do so if he was scum.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

Have at thee

To be fair, I can't blame you. This game feels like a one big epic fail to me. It happens.

[Greeting]

Congratulations to the mafia for a deserved win.

Thanks for hosting the game Dats, you did an excellent job and the setup is really good too.

[Greeting]

I think it was a fun setup but it might need a couple more runs to root out any actual problems. It feels like all the scum hunting needs to happen D1 as there's a lot of WIFOM in the later days and you really only have one factor to scum hunt off of

I said that on Day 1, but literally everyone ignored me.