Open 170 - Bird C9 (Game Over)

[Yankee]

Confirming that i have recieved the PM. and i have never seen a game move so fast, a L-1 on page one

[Yankee]

Well this just calls for a....

OMGUS Vote: Netlava

And there wasnt much to go on to add, just a bunch of random votes.

[Yankee]

Well it has only been like 1 or 2 days, not much to go on, but then again i havent play many mafia games on this forum so i dont know how long it normally takes to get "serious".

[Yankee]

i dont think it is suspicious that he put EL on L-1 so quickly because he probably just didnt realize how many votes EL already had, but i do say that we should be more careful with our votes.

Unvote

[Yankee]

sorry for what may be a newb question, but what does "L-or-L" mean?

[Yankee]

Now that you mention it, Slepz was very active at the start of the game, but hasnt posted since page one....

[Yankee]

Sorry guys for not posting in a while, but my work schedule is hectic right now and i don't have much time for mafia. I just read over the last few pages, and I do agree that hohum is acting very aggressively and i do find that post where he referred to the town as "they" interesting, especially for an experienced player as hohum.

But one post that gave me a scum-vibe was Post 85 by Netlava. That statement about a town accidentally quick-hammering day 1 where he calls himself a townie by putting himself in that hypothetical townies shoes seems odd to me. I guess any person that refers to themselves as townies sends me scum-vibes because it has absolutely no meaning in this game.

Also, like someone said earlier, I am new to this game (just finishing up a game, Newbie 826), and I am sorry if I seem rather "noobish" to you guys while I learn more about this game. Like can someone please tell me how to quote multiple posts?

[Yankee]

Netlava, i feel like you are trying to focus attention on this EL/hohum ordeal. Rather strange to me. What are YOUR opinions on other players, such as myself, snix, slepz etc.

I think EL and hohum are drawing our attention away from other possibilities.

[Yankee]

And why is that? Right now my suspicion is Hohum, be he is already being actively discussed so i dont want to bring more attention to that.

[Yankee]

You say you were pretty sure he was town yet you still voted for him? and its funny that you say that you think he is town now when he self hammers. Very suspicious to me.

On a seperate note, What the heck, you can self hammer?!? why would anyone in their right mind, scum or town, do that?

[Yankee]

Ok guys, since this is lylo and we MUST lynch town today to win, i must tell you the information I have obtained before it is too late. I am the cop, and i will be lynched tonight I am sure after this post, but before i do, i must tell you this information before you lynch him. Netlava is a townie. I am telling you this because you guys keep pointing towards him as suspicious. I am the cop, which leaves EL, toro, and snix.

I have read through the entire topic again, and i firmly believe that EL is a scum, although i am not too sure who his partner is. I believe his partner is snix, but i cant confirm on that. Also, it is a 66.67% voting scum out of those three so i am confident in my vote of EL

Vote: EL

I may be new, and i know it may not be the smartest thing to reveal my role but i am saving Netlava in LyLo so i believe it is worth my death at night.

[Yankee]

Unvote, Vote Toro

Was waiting to see who would claim to be the cop, now i know who is mafia. Now between EL or Snix as his partner....

[Yankee]

Sorry for the double post, but i would just like to point something out to maybe show you that i am the true cop....

Notice that right after i post that i am the cop, and tell you that Netlava is an innocent townie whom i investigated last night one of the three people i pointed out as possible mafia comes out and says that he is the TRUE cop and that he investigated someone that was "nightkilled"..... Seems odd to me that he would choose a dead person as his person he supposedly investigated....

I am curious Toro, why did you "investigate" slepz? He might not have been vocal, but in my opinion he didnt seem the scummiest of all people. Where as netlava seemed very scummy yesterday, and even today really.....

Netlava, you should know i am the true cop since you are a townie. Why would a mafia member clear a townie by posing as a cop? Doesnt make sense..... Anyways, this should show you that toro is the obvious mafia member...

[Yankee]

ah ha! found another flaw in toro's accusation..... (and sorry for the triple post, just boosted on a bunch of soda and kind of hyper)...... He claims that he "tried" to investigate Slepz last night, but to my knowledge even if the person you investigate gets nightkilled you still receive a PM with that person's role. Where as Toro gives the impression that he never got a PM back.....

Sorry if this isnt true, but on the other forum i play this on, i have had that happen to me and i still received a PM. I am still new to this forum (and the game in general really) so i dont know how everything works yet...

[Yankee]

Ok, now......

Mod: Can we have clarification on if a Cop would receive a PM with the role of their target if their target for investigation was nightkilled?

[Yankee]

I agree that EL and Toro seem like a likely possible scum pair because of Toro's player analysis earlier. But from what i remember Toro and Snix havent really interacted at all, so that seems suspicious to me as well... No gauruntee's who Toro's partner is, but toro is scum for sure I know now..

[Yankee]

I have thought this through and i need to post it now because i wont be online any more today and i might be dead by then. I have been thinking about who is scum between Snix and EL and i realized that when i first accused EL Toro claimed he was the cop to try to throw us off, but if EL was a townie, he would have just let me convince the town that EL was scum and let us lynch the town without interfering. That coupled with the fact that he portrayed him as a townie in his Player Analysis makes me believe about 95% sure that EL is Toro's partner. I needed to give you guys my final opinion before i am nightkilled or lynched....

[Yankee]

Some things that I also find fishy in you Yankee.

I have read through the entire topic again, and i firmly believe that EL is a scum, although i am not too sure who his partner is. I believe his partner is snix, but i cant confirm on that. Also, it is a 66.67% voting scum out of those three so i am confident in my vote of EL

You say you firmly believe that EL is scum, yet you never ever posted a case on him explaining your reasons on why you believe he is scummy. So how could we have possibly believed your reasoning on EL being scummy.

I didnt have time before i had to go to work to do a detailed analysis for everyone to see on why I thought he was scummy, notice how i leave for the rest of the day not too long after that post time-wise? And i have to go to bed for early day at work tomorrow, just on for a few minutes now to reply to this accusation post. Most of my points of EL have been covered by Netlava though, but i had a few more...

Unvote, Vote Toro

Was waiting to see who would claim to be the cop, now i know who is mafia. Now between EL or Snix as his partner....

(Earlier reasoning)

Okay this post is so pathetic it's not even funny, you claimed cop to see who would claim cop. So in other words Yankee, you claimed to be the cop so you can have the real cop counterclaim and then have your scumbuddy take me out at night so there's a higher chance that you give you and your partner a chance to win D3.

No need to be rude by calling someone pathetic. The point of the game is to have fun, and dont be so rude like hohum was. But to the point.... I didnt claim to be the cop just for that reason, but i figured someone might claim to be a cop to try and confuse the town, and then i would know for sure who the mafia was. Wasnt like I claimed to be the cop just for the reason of seeing if someone else would, i had other reasons that i dont have time to explain now.

Sorry for the double post, but i would just like to point something out to maybe show you that i am the true cop....

Notice that right after i post that i am the cop, and tell you that Netlava is an innocent townie whom i investigated last night one of the three people i pointed out as possible mafia comes out and says that he is the TRUE cop and that he investigated someone that was "nightkilled"..... Seems odd to me that he would choose a dead person as his person he supposedly investigated....

How does that strike you as odd that I investigated Slepz? There were

logical

reasons for investigating Slepz, he was a lurker, so based on my deductions I thought he was either the doctor laying low or a scummy staying behind. What reasons did you truly have for investigating Netlava? To try and clear your scumbuddy? Why would you

not

investigate Slepz, a lurker, or the person whom you firmly believe is scum, Eldritch Lord? If you were the cop, you'd be playing pretty stupidly.

Well, Slepz may have been a lurker, but there were several other people to investigate that were more scummy acting. Even in your own player analysis you post that Slepz is neutral where as you post that Snix and Netlava are suspicious. Why not investigate two people YOU considered suspicious then someone you considered neutral? And you blame me for the same thing with EL, but the thing is i was suspicious of EL in Day 1, but only now i am suspicious (more then suspicious, 95% sure). But you on the other hand on day one even claimed to be suspicious of Netlava and Snix but yet you do not investigate them? Odd. And my reasons for investigating Netlava i will post after this post....

I am curious Toro, why did you "investigate" slepz? He might not have been vocal, but in my opinion he didnt seem the scummiest of all people. Where as netlava seemed very scummy yesterday, and even today really.....

Are you f**kin' kidding me!? Netlava appeared as extremely neutral so far in D2! Though I admit there was some scummy things that Netlava said on Day 1, but listen, Slepz hadn't said much, what you can't decipher through his words (since there were barely any he wrote) you can gain by investigating him. And if Netlava appeared scummy, which we both agree to some extent, we'd just go after him on Day 2!

Read above reply. And more to come of why I investigated Netlava in next post....

Netlava, you should know i am the true cop since you are a townie. Why would a mafia member clear a townie by posing as a cop? Doesnt make sense..... Anyways, this should show you that toro is the obvious mafia member...

This first sentence of yours here sounds as if you're appealing to Netlava to hurry and put a vote on me so either Eldritch or Snix could then hammer and kill me, but no I've got your scummy hands right where I wanted! And there are now two scenarios that you've presented in your second sentence,

I.

That you are trying to clear your scum partner, who could be Netlava.

II.

Or that you already knew Netlava was town anyways seeing how you know who your scum partner is. I don't know how that that paragraph should show how Netlava that I'm scum.

You trying to tell everyone that I am appealing to Netlava to vote for you, but yet you do the same thing with EL? Interesting..... I was simply showing Netlava facts and letting him make his decision based on that. Where as you are actively trying to get EL to vote for me, and seem to be getting aggitated that he is not.... I notice you havent really mentioned anything about Snix or to Snix since we have started this whole Cop ordeal. Only one to appeal to Snix was EL i believe. Why so much attention given to get EL to vote for me and not Snix? both of their votes will be required to lynch me, shouldnt you be working on getting both of them to vote for me?

ah ha! found another flaw in toro's accusation..... (and sorry for the triple post, just boosted on a bunch of soda and kind of hyper)...... He claims that he "tried" to investigate Slepz last night, but to my knowledge even if the person you investigate gets nightkilled you still receive a PM with that person's role. Where as Toro gives the impression that he never got a PM back.....

Like I said, I DID get a PM back, it just said something along the lines of

You attempted to investigate Slepz last night, but unfortunately he was found dead.

(Don't think you can post pms out word-by-word, just saw someone get mk'd for it) And the Ah Ha! is extremely scummy as it sees like "Ooo! Ooo!" like you've been trying to scrounge up evidence and were overly-excited that you found something.

I am an easily excitable person so i dont find it odd really, nor scummy. As for the PM part, i wont comment because the only comments i can think to reply to that might come across rude....

-------------

And Netlava, I don't know exactly what your alignment is, but it'd certainly help the rest of the town know tommorow what it is by placing a vote on Yankee.

And I wouldnt bother wasting your time trying to convince Netlava to vote for me, he seems as sure as I do of your scumminess.

My replies are in

Bold

And to Snix: I hope i have convinced you of who the true mafia is, if not then i have failed to town and I am deeply sorry for starting all of this to do with the cop situation. I hope you can see through Toro's lies. I suggest that you read through both Mine and Toro's posts from the start of the game and make an analysis of your own as to who you think the TRUE cop is, and who is the mafia poser....

[Yankee]

Well, alot has been said since i went to bed last night.... Let me try to respond to everything...

I agree with all your claims from post 171 except for these:

If EL were scum and Toro was cop, Toro would be dead and we'd have lost. If Toro were scum we'd have two votes on Yankee.

EL is just distancing himself from Toro incase Toro gets lynched tonight, to make himself look more innocent in the eyes of you, and to try and sway me and Netlava's opinion of him. That is why he is not voting for me. BUT i could be terribly wrong (which i doubt) and EL is a townie, but that would leave you, snix as the remaining mafia. The reason i doubt this is even said by you in post 171....

If EL were town and Toro were scum, Toro should not counter-claim but instead let the Cop lead everyone to a mislynch.

A).

If I were scum and Toro was cop, Toro would be dead.

B).

If Toro was scum EL would be dead.

C).

If Netlava was scum Toro would be dead.

D).

If Yankee was scum toro would be dead.

E).

If EL were scum Toro would be dead.

F).

If I was town we'd be stuck in this position.

A). True (Snix=Town)
B). True, because he wouldnt have claimed to be cop (EL=Scum)
C). False, I dont understand your reasoning for this, because he is already voting for toro, could be either or....
D). False, read above
E). False, if toro is his scumbuddy (which he is, but you cant be sure of that, which i understand) then he wont hammer his scumbuddy
F). True (Snix=Town.....Again....)


So we know for sure that snix is a townie, and from my point of view we have confirmed EL as Toro's scumbuddy. I dont know what else i can do to prove to you that I am the true cop, so i guess i will have to let you make the decision on your own and hope you choose the right path. I suggest re-reading the whole topic for insight.

As far as your post about me being a bad cop/newbie cop, it is true I am a newbie cop, this is only my second game on this forum and the first time i have ever gotten a PR, so i would say I am fairly new at it . And as for my suspicions for you earlier in game, i only voiced a suspicion on one incident during twilight, whereas Netlava was more suspicious to me because he seemed to be "tunnelvisioning" us with the whole EL/Hohum ordeal. He kept asking them to keep the debate going and such, so i wanted to investigate him. Speaking of which, i didnt have time last night to do that follow up post about why i voted Netlava in detail so i will try to do one now before i have to go to work....

[Yankee]

These are the reasons i investigated him in detail from day 1, and the reasons why i believe he was still acting scummy in day 2 (which Toro does not believe for some reason)

Day 1:

Is that all you have to offer from your read through?

Vote: Yankee

As soon as i joined he starts attacking me and lays a vote because i didnt Random Vote, it seemed odd to me at the time, but not That odd. Just a minor factor.

Ok, whatever.

And the main reason why I investigated was this post right here. He is bringing more attention to the EL/Hohum matter after it had already ceased to be a matter at all. Very scummy to me, but it seems i was wrong....


Day 2:

Vote: Slepz

He's giving me a scumvibe.

This post seemed odd to me as well because it had only been one page since Slepz last post so he hadnt become the lurker that everyone now see's him as, and he voted just on a vibe without explaining it at all.

That's

(a vibe)

all I need for a lynch, really. Razz

This post stood out to me because he is saying he is willing to lynch based on no evidence whatsoever, just a gut feeling. I know i may be new to this, but that does not seem like a wise plan for this game...

On a side note while reading through this topic in detail, i have noticed one interesting coincidence at post 61-62. As soon as Hohum votes Toro, EL immediately votes for Hohum. I am not saying this is proof they are scumbuddies, just add it to list of evidence...

L-1 is fine if a scum quickhammers and gets caught. Town is actually favored to win in these situations. A 3 person lylo is about 50-50 for scum and town. But with the existence of power roles, town gets the edge.
The problem is, what if town "accidentally" hammers? Someone like... say, me, while not paying attention, might "accidentally" hammer someone... We wouldn't want that to happen, wouldn't we?

I agree with his top sentence, but only if the scum quickhammers. In the middle of the topic it felt almost like he was trying to use proportions and mathematics to confuse us. And the subtle claim to be a town in the last sentence was also a major reason i investigated him.

@EL & hohum: How scummy would you rate the other guy at this point?

As a disclaimer, I'm not trying to induce tunnel-vision or anything of the sort... but rather for other reasons...

Another side note that i have stumbled across in my re-read:

Take Netlava, he says that he could be one who would possibly hammer. So if that happened, town would probably die D1, a different townie would be offed N1, and then we'd all lynch Netlava on D2, resulting in us losing.

This quote from Toro sticks out to me because if he truely were the Cop then he would know this situation is easily avoidable by the Cop investigating the guy that hammers, and wouldnt freak out so much about it.

The problem with you using my example is that I know I'm town, but you don't (or do you?), so it's definitely strange when you say this.

I think he was using you as an example of possible town, not confirming your status as town. Toro's really the only one who's posted a big read so far this game, so I'm kind of hesitant to question him. I personally thought Slepz was lurkerscum, but I guess I didn't read it correctly.

Talk about buddying up....

Netlava, you were kind of pushing the wagon from the outside -- then you quickly backed off when I was questioning you about it, saying that you didn't see anything in it.

You talk about Netlava pushing the Hohum case? Your the one that had a 1-2 page debate with him, you didnt need netlava's help. This accusation of netlava coming from YOU of all people is very odd...

I'm more suspicious of you, Netlava.

FoS: Netlava

FoS: Snix

You know I love you Snix, but I can't risk losing. You really did tack on that extra vote when you were thinking Hohum was just bad town. While no one could've expected the self-hammer, if Netlava was scum, he could've hammered.

And the main reason I post this quote in the middle of my netlava post is because of this paragraph here... I remembered this post and how EL accuses Snix of tacking on an extra vote but when he realizes that Snix was second to vote, and not third he drops his arguement, and does not pursue Toro (who was actually the third to vote Hohum). Why would you make a deal out of it when Snix did it, but not when you learn that Toro did it?

It irks me a little bit that Netlava's vote sat on the doc the whole day..

Why would this irk you, there is no way to know who the doc is, even for scum.

Day 2:

The problem with you using my example is that I know I'm town, but you don't (or do you?), so it's definitely strange when you say this.

Still doesn't explain how you assumed I was town. Rolling Eyes

Also, toro, what are your thoughts now that hohum & slepz have flipped town?

Brings way too much attention to himself and the matter of his townieness. Also, he seemed to be reverting back to his tunnelvisioning technique which seemed suspicious in day 1, and will be still suspicious in day 2.

There is my detailed analysis. Sorry if it is hard to read

[Yankee]

Oh, and sorry for triple post, but i thought i might give you some information to help your decision before i go to work. If you want to take the time to do this you can. The first game i played on this forum that you can study my playstyle if you like. It is Newbie 826 and we are in LyLo at the moment. I dont think i can tell you my role, but it is pretty obvious if you read the last page. The link to that game is http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=350 If you want to take the time to read it I am sure you can learn my playstyle from that game...

I am playing another game in this forum, but it has just started and I started that game after this one so I didnt feel it was appropriate...

Sorry if I am not allowed to share this information, I just know i have read other people commenting on past games they have seen others play, and I have even seen other people speak about reading through peoples past games, so i am just making it easily accessible to Snix (and whoever else is interested).

[Yankee]

I am on my break from work right now so i dont have much time to reply, will reply in greater detail after 6 tonight. Anyways here is what i have to say to respond:

@ Post 189 - If you are on your computer so much that you could have quickhammered with Toro, why dont you add so much more to the conversation. Someone that active i would expect to see like 1/3 of the posts by them. And also, how could you be certain toro would be online to quickhammer, but none of that really matters because you didnt hammer. And i didnt suspect Toro as much as you or Snix because up until that point he had been rather helpful and pro-town acting. But out of the 3 possibilities you seemed the most scummy, especially with your interactions with Hohum. Also, to be honest, i looked at Hohums thoughts to help me decide which of the three i suspected to be scummy....

@ Post 191 - Oh, i didnt realize that, i was wondering what you meant by all of that, because it didnt seem to make much sense to me.

@ Post 192 - Earlier you were buddying up, now you are distancing. My quotes from you buddying are from earlier if you would have read them, where as my claim of you distancing is present. For someone so active i figured you would have read the times the quotes are from....

@ Post 193-193 - No comment, they need no reply from me...

[Yankee]

Back from work, and might i just say that since neither of you can talk outside the topic that it is likely that neither of you wanted to take the chance of voting for Netlava on the off chance that the other was offline and give away your scumminess. There is no way you could have known that the other was online, plus Snix was online to unvote and that could have just been a trick of his. There is several reasons why you wouldnt vote for Netlava right after Snix did.

Also, i dont feel it is worth my energy to defend myself to Toro or EL, so i am saying this to you Snix. I have nothing to hide, anything you want to ask of me that you think may show my innocence please do. I will not hesitate to answer (although i am not as active as EL claims to be so you might have to wait a bit for my reply). I truely have nothing to hide and am not scared of "slipping up" because there is nothing to slip up on for me. But right now i feel it is useless to argue with toro and/or EL because they just take my words and twist it to their benefit and omit parts that make sense, so i am done with that. But go ahead and ask away snix, i will hopefully be online most of tonight and all of tomorrow (no work, yay!)

[Yankee]

i have posted a legitimate reason already, and repeated it when someone else said the same thing. The reason that you have to be Toro's scum buddy is because if you were a townie, toro would not have claimed to be a cop to save you when i came out as the cop and voted for you. You see, if you were a townie, Toro would have just set back and waited for me to guide the town into a mislynch. The only reason he would claim to be a cop is because he is trying to save his scumbuddy. But you are right, i should stop focusing on scumbuddies and just focus on 100% confirmed scum (in my eyes). Like i said, i cant see a way to convince you otherwise, but Toro is the mafia and that is for sure. And sorry if i come across rude, its just when i know something i know it, and its just frustrating when people dont believe you...

[Yankee]

how was i distancing From netlava on day 1? I think you should go back and reread. Dont you remember that i investigated him because he was scummy to me. I even mentioned it to him how i thought he was trying to tunnel vision with you and Hohum and asked him his opinion on everyone else. And i already explained why i was suspicious of you before toro claimed. And now it finally looks like your starting to defend Toro.

(Note I don't think this is likely AT ALL, I'm fairly certain Toro is the real cop just from claim timing and play)

Claim timing? He claimed right after i claimed. It is something the mafia would do if they were experienced, and I am fairly certain Toro is an experienced player which is why it is difficult to explain my case. That and apparently Snix and EL are friends or know each other from another game so i think that may be clouding Snix's judgement, although i hope not. Also, think about it, why would i claim to be a cop anyways if i were a scum that early, and of all things involve my scumbuddy with me? It makes no sense. I would have no motive, and if i were mafia i would just sit back and try to blend in....

[Yankee]

I would like to hear more from Snix, he hasnt posted in a while, but his opinion is the only one that really matters.... Snix! where are you? we miss you

[Yankee]

I dont think they will do that Netlava, but we will see....

[Yankee]

Well thats game over then. I guess its a tie then. Cause we dont lynch today, and then I am NK'ed leaving 2 town vs 2 Mafia. I assume thats a tie. I was the real cop by the way......

[Yankee]

I still dont understand Snix's strategy of No Lynch. That is like asking for the mafia to win, even if me and netlava were scum we could vote for no lynch and win. That was like, i dont know which side is scum, so im going to pick neither so we lose..... sigh

[Yankee]

So was my play as the cop newbish, like who i investigated or how i claimed so early. I feel like i could have played it different for a town win....

[Yankee]

But isnt that general knowledge that should be openly available to players? I know the game is over, i just dont think that you should with hold information that should be publicly known from us just because it might out a scum

[Yankee]

Well all and all it was a very good game. Well played Toro and EL. Congrats