Sanjay wrote:Vote: Zazier
Let's lynch him before he can spam up the thread.
![Twisted Evil :twisted:](./images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif)
Too late!
But why? Doesn't it cheer you up
![Crying or Very Sad :cry:](./images/smilies/icon_cry.gif)
Why?12Keyblade wrote:It is all 3. At once.Sanjay wrote:Do you actually mean this, or is this the Random Opinion Stage too?12Keyblade wrote:Random FoS stage > Random Voting Stage.Sanjay wrote:I don't think I have ever had cause to take a FoS less seriously.
Really, no I don't mean it. But I prefer FoSes to Voting.
So why Sanjay, while it was Zwet who put 12KB at L-1?imkingdavid wrote:Bandwagonning is scummy in my book.Sanjay wrote:Fair enough. I probably wouldn't have voted for ZazieR if IMkingdavid hadn't done it first.
I'm just a real sucker for peer pressure, you know?
*bandwagons Sanjay*
vote: Sanjay
You knew that there were two scum and that the game is night-less, but you didn't know about the lovers?imkingdavid wrote:Actually, I forgot that if one scum dies, both die. So that means... we have less. half of that, in fact.Sanjay wrote:How do you figure we have up to four days to hit scum?
scenario:
day 1:6 alive, 4 to lynch (2 scum, 4 townies). lynch townie.
day 2:5 alive, 3 to lynch (2 scum, 3 townies). lynch townie.
day 3:4 alive, 3 to lynch (2 scum, 2 townies). game over;no way to get a majority now, since no scum is stupid enough to vote for themselves or their buddy.
scenario 2:
we lynch scum on either day 1 or 2; game over-town win.
So unless I'm missing something (which is entirely possible, given my current awake-ness), we have day 1 and day 2 to catch scum before we're screwed.
I have my reason.imkingdavid wrote:zaz... is there really a need to post that many consecutive posts? why not just post 1 longer post? saves space.
Yes, you stated you were only used to newbie games. Doesn't explain the nightless bit.David wrote:Anyway...I have already explained this.You knew that there were two scum and that the game is night-less, but you didn't know about the lovers?
So if you think scum would be so adamant about it, then it's scummy, not?David wrote:It's just unnecessary. And only scum would need to be so adamant about claiming town, especially this early in. Besides... I don't see the point of claiming in this particular game in any case; you're either townie or scum, and scum isn't going to claim scum.Is this scummy? And if so, why?
Please explain why you brought up a 12KB/David scumteam, when I'm voting somebody else.David wrote:Somehow it didn't all come together in my head when I was posting. My bad. After it was pointed out by... someone (can't remember and the post is no longer shown in the thread review thanks to the string of 16+ posts you made earlier), I corrected my mistake and we moved on. So drop it. If you want to string 12KB and I together as a scum team with the fact that both of us at some point happened to forget the suicide bit as your sole reasoning, go for it, but I sure hope you look for some actual evidence before pushing a wagon on it. Like I said before, we only have up to 2 days to get it right with the setup. We don't have room for mistakes.
You think scum would be more adamant about claiming vanilla, and especially early on. So how is it not a scumtell to you?David wrote:Well, now we're stepping into some major WIFOM (e.g. "you must be scum b/c you did such and such", "no, I can't be; scum wouldn't be that stupid", "yeah, but you want us to think that scum wouldn't be that stupid, so you did it and you're using that as an excuse"... etc.)
To get to the point, I don't find it particularly scummy (and never said I did). I was just pointing out the unnecessariness (yes, I just made that word up) of claiming VT during this game.
Then why haven't you pointed this out against David?Sanjay wrote:I didn't really like 12KeyBlade's overt show of caution
ORLY?:Sanjay wrote:I thought two bandwagons would be more interesting than oneand also I wanted to vote for you.
Sanjay wrote:Fair enough. I probably wouldn't have voted for ZazieR if IMkingdavid hadn't done it first.
I'm just a real sucker for peer pressure, you know?
Why this personal attack?David wrote:Zwet, you haven't done anything productive since the game began. Care to post something longer than one sentence?
Oh wait, now I remember. You never post anything more than 1 sentence. Never mind.
Two reasons, of which one may not be applicable here:David wrote:Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?
Pointing fingers is noted.imkingdavid wrote:EBWOP:AHh, just caught on to your sneaky choice of words, too. You guys are pretty quick to accuse me of being scum for "acting" like I forgot and making up "false excuses" to save myself. But 12KB did the same thing and you didn't blink twice when he apologized. Not to ask you guys to stop looking at me, but it seems strange that you'd look hard at one person for doing something that another person did and not look at the other person.Sanjay wrote:imkingdavid, could you explain why you don't thinkacting like you don't knowthe mafia are lovers constitutes actual evidence?
ZazieR wrote:How?12Keyblade wrote:Ah, excellent point! I had forgotten about the lovers.dramonic wrote:theorically if you've caught one scum you've got the other by suicide reaction.
Circular logic.imkingdavid wrote:If I were scum, I wouldn't blatantly act like I forgot something like that, as it would shine the light on me instantly, as has happened in this case. From experience, I know that I pay more attention to detail in games I play as scum compared to games I play as town. When I was scum (i.e. in my first game, newbie 802) I would spent 10 minutes fretting over whether or not a post might even sound the slightest bit scummy. But as town, I don't pay as much attention. Apparently I haven't been paying enough.Sanjay wrote:RE: that was a follow-up question to
"Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?"
Anyway, are you going to answer my question, or are you going to try and make me look worse by not answering but expecting an answer out of me? Because the latter is scummy.
Unless you want to change a word here, I have no idea what you're saying here.dramonic wrote:because when I exclude myself and the people who I think are scum, lynching him has a 66% chance of netting scum.
And I wouldnt say bandwagonning is scummy, but Sanjay is being fickle as a breeze.
Also, for clarification, the 'him' in your quote is referring to David, right?ZazieR wrote:Unless you want to change a word here, I have no idea what you're saying here.dramonic wrote:because when I exclude myself and the people who I think are scum, lynching him has a 66% chance of netting scum.
And I wouldnt say bandwagonning is scummy, but Sanjay is being fickle as a breeze.
Also, who do you think Sanjay's partner is if he's scum?
I'll wait with responding to the 12KB part as he has yet to respond to my posts. However, what David did is scummy. Why? Let's look back:Sanjay wrote:To contrast it with 12Keyblade's show of caution, 12Keyblade was cautious about people being put at L-2. That's a lot more eye catching than this imkingdavid post.
Answer: David faked it.Sanjay wrote:1. I am puzzled how he forgot the mafia were lovers ESPECIALLY after 12Keyblade made the post about forgetting about the lovers. I am generally a little skeptical that anyone in this game would forget about that, since it is the whole theme of the game, but imkingdavid's post seems especially weird.
Answer: Given in the second paragraph of the above quote.Sanjay wrote:2. If imkingdavid is scum and is trying to pretend he forgot the mafia were lovers, it seems like a very crafty way to do it (speculating that there are 4 days left to kill mafia). I suppose if 12Keyblade was town imkingdavid might have gotten the idea to forget that there were mafia as well, but if this were the case it seems like it would be a lot easier for him to just use it as evidence against 12Keyblade and go for his lynch, rather than trying to copy him.
Though I suppose that if he is scum he has access to daytalk so he could get his partner to go after 12Keyblade, but that seems like a bad strategy to go after someone else for the same thing your partner is doing. Plus if this were the case I would not have expected imkingdavid to be clueless about why it is scummy in the first place.
Rephrase?Sanjay wrote:3. I don't know why imkingdavid doesn't find 12Keyblade scummy for posting about not knowing the mafia were lovers. He seems to be abandoning it as a valid piece of evidence altogether, even if he
I want to know which of the two was the case. Did you want to vote me or not?Sanjay wrote:ZazieR, was the ORLY? part of 85 a serious question or should I just answer that with YA RLY or something?
And to this as well?:Sanjay wrote:4. I wasn't trying to word my question to make imkingdavid look bad and I don't know why he thinks I did. imkingdavid, I said you were acting like you forgot about the lovers because you were. I don't know whether you actually forgot as well, so I really don't feel like I am twisting anything by phrasing the question like that. Maybe I am misreading myself, but it seems a bit paranoid to me, which is a little scummy.
Zaz wrote:Not one comment about the L-1 (Second L-1 against Sanjay). And the strangest thing about it is that the first two L-1 came during the time he thought it would take four days according to him, while the last situation came after the clarification.
Add that he has now stated that he don't like mindless bandwagoning. And if you look back at my post in which I voted Sanjay, what should the impression have been? Yet, he gave no comment on it whatsoever.
You're not happy that you aren't on his scumlist? If you are happy, then why ask these questions?Sanjay wrote:Who else is on this scumlist? Am I to infer that both 12Keyblade and myself aren't on it or something? What's the deal with that?zwetschenwasser wrote:Unvote; Vote: ImkingdavidYAY someone on my scumlist!
Also, after looking back, it seems you posted a few times after Zwet made this post. So why only comment on it now?ZazieR wrote:You're not happy that you aren't on his scumlist? If you are happy, then why ask these questions?Sanjay wrote:Who else is on this scumlist? Am I to infer that both 12Keyblade and myself aren't on it or something? What's the deal with that?zwetschenwasser wrote:Unvote; Vote: ImkingdavidYAY someone on my scumlist!
First of all, I've already explained why the reason you're stating for forgetting about the lovers is invalid.imkingdavid wrote:1) Yes, but wouldn't it be stupid for scum to make the same mistake literally RIGHT after a townie did? As I said in my defense, this is my first non-newbie game so i'm still getting used to the different things. Also, as I said, when I am scum I pay a load more attention to what I type than when I am not scum. If you must, you can go reference each of my other games and see how erratic I am when posting as town, whereas I never got even 1 vote against myself during my entire game as scum (newbie 802), showing that I do pay much more attention to detail.Zazie wrote:Also, regarding your example. If it's not in the same league as what actually happened, it's called an invalid comparison. Which is the case here.
Two reasons, of which one may not be applicable here:David wrote:Also, may I pose the question: why would scum so blatantly choose to omit such a major part in the game?
-You saw a different player state that he didn't know. If this player is town, you as scum gain advantage of this. Because if one townie does it, another townie can make the same mistake, not? (This is the one that may not be applicable and this is a lesser reason why scum would do it compared to the other)
-Why would scum fake knowing the setu-up? Because we're dealing withMafialovers. So who would know the set-up of the scum side better: Town or scum?
The answer is scum. So by faking it, it gives a town impression.
However, when a bad excuse gets stated, like now, it needs some investigation.
2) You are correct, scum do know the setup. Only they and the mod know the setup. So because I had to go re-evaluate what I said, it shows that I had not spent much time at all on thinking about the setup but rather I posted before I thought hard enough about it.
Rephrase?imkingdavid wrote:So you can point out if I ever say something might raise suspicion, but I can't point out when someone appears to be trying to make me look worse than I am?Pointing fingers is noted.
Noted.
Zaz wrote:Please explain why you brought up a 12KB/David scumteam, when I'm voting somebody else.
Zaz wrote:You think scum would be more adamant about claiming vanilla, and especially early on. So how is it not a scumtell to you?
Zaz wrote:Also, did you read all of my posts or not?
There is no such rule.David wrote:Because I don't remember any rule stating that everyone has to have a vote on someone at all times.
Fallacy. Just because my vote has caused L-1 and L-2 doesn't mean I don't care about who gets lynched.David wrote:Since we only have 2 days to get it right or we lose, I am not going to toss my vote around. Like I said above, I actually care about who gets lynched, whereas it would seem you don't since you have people at L-1 and L-2 at such early stages in the game. We have plenty of time until deadline.
My question was more aimed if you thought he was scummy or not. I couldn't tell from your post in which you go into full detail about David. But it seems you don't know yet.Sanjay wrote:I'm not voting David because I was unsure about my read. Was that not clear from my previous answer? How do you figure I hadn't given my thoughts on David? You obviously didn't miss them because you quoted from them.
Can't tell as he (or a future replacement) hasn't responded to my points aimed at him. As for why I was supporting the David wagon and not the 12KB wagon: Scummy > Unsure.Sanjay wrote:What's your impression of 12Keyblade? Why is the David wagon more appealing to you than the 12Keyblade wagon?
Why?Sanjay wrote:I haven't been very suspicious of zwet because he had come of as rather townish, but I was a bit surprised that he didn't consider 12Keyblade scummy.
Why did you ask the bolded?Sanjay wrote:What relevance does this have to the situation? We were talking about my bandwagoning. Is there a reason why you feel my vote for ZazieR and my vote for 12Keyblade demonstrate a lack of caring?imkingdavid wrote:I realize this is Dram's question, but I believe he already answered it in post 109, so I'll put in some input as well.ZazieR wrote:Question: Why is bandwagoning scummy?dramonic wrote:well, IKD has more content to analyse and isn't as bandwagon-berserk as you are Sanjay
Bandwagoning is scummy when you are doing it just to have a vote on and to increase the votes on someone else. It makes it look like you don't actually have a reason to vote and as if you don't care who is lynched. And all protown players *should* care who is lynched, and therefore shouldn't bandwagon because someone could by mislynched before they can provide a defense.
What motivated you to answer this question?
Also, unless it is LYLO, the mafia cares a lot more about who is lynched than town does.
Which is why you called 12KB out for that scummy action? (In case you couldn't tell, it's sarcastic. You didn't do so after 12KB stated he didn't know. Please explain why.)Sanjay wrote:I think acting as if you don't know the mafia were lovers is scummy. And by scummy I mean scum are more likely to do it than town. 12Keyblade could have legitimately forgotten and so could have you. However, I think it is still a suspicious thing to forget, especially in a game called Lovers Mafia, especially when I figure people would actually think about the setups they are signing up for. If you are town, you know it.But you don't know that 12Keyblade is town, and I don't understand why you aren't suspicious of him.
We just lynched. Game would be over if David would have been scum. No flip has been shown yet.dramonic wrote:It's way more than you're supposed to say.
Sanjay, once the day 1 ends I'm voting you, fyi ^^
This is a scum post due to the bolded.Sanjay wrote:dramonic wrote:It's way more than you're supposed to say.
Sanjay, once the day 1 ends I'm voting you, fyi ^^Fine with me. Either I get quicklynched and I don't have to think about anything or I don't and vote for you.
Either way, easy street.