Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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/hi
Wow, I think know quite a few people on the list.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Nikanor-22: You, dramonic, Scott (he replaced out... like a Yankees fan ), Flava Flave, and I've run into 12KB and zwet from elsewhere.
My only rule: Don't do bullshit gambits, or bullshit in general. Your bullshit will be discarded, or you will be discarded for bullshitting.
...
What? Can't a grandpa let his guttermouth run loose once in a while?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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I've seen other games go down due to bad gambits just through my readthroughs. They're just pointless and mean nothing, and everyone gets pissed later.
I'm not talking about your inhibited docclaim from our last endeavor, that's not a gambit. Don't worry.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Voting people you like/recognize = fail reason even for a random vote. >_>yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Nik-69: In this case, the lack thereof. If it isn't plainly obvious, despite two goddamned Yankees fans in this house, I haven't voted either. That's probably a big tip-off that I don't want to play that random voting game today.
On multiple counts, Red Sox Nation isn't playing any games anymore.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Probing questions for the lulz? Love it.
H_H starts the game in the plus column.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Scumpoints for the avatar haters.
I don't know what the hell Flava-85's up to.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Blast-92: Tongue emotes = joke.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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I'm gonna play an actual vote.
Vote: Blastinus
I'm not sure what's up, but he's a bit antsy and overreactive to some things. It sounds borderline defensive, 87 + 92 for some examples of this. Either that, or he just has a poor sense of humor. Can't tell.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Cool. PM semioldguy and make sure he says "WarWound is replacing" in thread before you post anything else, though.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Nik-123's vote has me on edge. I can't quite put a finger on it, but it feels... opportunistic perhaps? Intervening to say "I agree" feels strange.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Anybody have a good way of telling when zwet's play is just anti-town as opposed to scummy? I've never been able to decipher his gameplay after all this time.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Okay... maybe that avatar reallyyaggdoesblind people. O.O
I'll analyze the Nik-wagon after I do French HW.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@CC-160: EVERYONE is going to argue with you on that.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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The only thing that really fascinates me is the one guy who *didn't* hop on the wagon, Toro. Post 155 declares his stance on Nikanor, but he refuses to hop on. His reasons aren't really that good either, with him having to no less ALTER a word.
That said, I find it interesting how Nik's really screwing around this game, with an emote practically every first line he posts.
If he's scum, maybe he's just chilling out because he doesn't have to do any work, he just has to play us like a cheap fiddle. If he's town, maybe the party-like atmosphere (for a severe lack of a better word) of a large game is getting to his head, and he's phased out of it already.
I'm leaning towards the former, but I'm not gonna get impulsive and wagon. Impulsivity leads to tunnelvisioning, which leads to failure.
I can't quite put my finger on Blastinus either what makes him stick out, but in the meantime, I'll chill out for a sec.
Unvote
@War-168: Do you want to "pwn" him?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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WarWound, I will only say this once, but I think you'd be better off swapping this game out in favor of a Newbie game. At bear minimum, supplement this game with a Newbie game.
Go to the Queue forum and click on the Newbie Game sticky and just say "/in for next". That's how you should sign up for all future games, as well.
I say this only because your sense of arguing and awareness in our style of Mafia could use some pointers. You'd also benefit from the games being half the size of this. (and 20 is dizzying even for some seasoned members on here). Just my thoughts, if you think you're all right, or I'm missing something, you don't have to. I won't think any less of you if you take my advice and quit, though.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Activelurking, zwet. Come on, you know this.
More thoughts later.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Iguana-209: WarWound def. seems town. I like it when people are candid like that.
Scott and Flave, I'm not going to buy into yet. Flava's first vote got my attention probably due to its abrupt nature, so I'm still watching him. Scott... no idea. Not definitive.
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Toro is actively lurking practically to the same degree 12KB is, and if anything, tilts scummier than 12KB. Nikanor still remains a target right now, though. However, I might have to meta-dive to prove or squash the theory that Nik's screwing around is a sign of scum apathy.
Head_Honcho, I'm also going to watch, because I think he may be trying to take advantage of a VI (zwet) here. Watch these sorts of people who immediately seize the opportunity on what's merely a poor scumhunting technique.
(Watch zwet come on just to say he's insulted I called him a VI.)yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@WW-218: You're new, not stupid. You need GAMES and GAMES of incompetence to get the rank of being an incompetent player.
@Pom-217: Let's note the 12KB wagon for future reference, dependent on if and what 12KB flips. I wonder if scum's pushing it a bit more than it should be, ie: beyond its bounds.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Still here. I'll post later.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Toro, zwet, dram, and WW are poor contributors to this game in general out of all the people actively posting. Not a fan of that.
@Iguana-230: Okay, I'll buy that. I don't know about having vig confidence there, but at least it's irrelevant this game.
HH-232 I think is tunneling on 12KB, however. He seems to only put mention of 12KB's lurker problems when there are other issues about.
@Col-236: Any noticeable meta differences upon looking between the games?
foilist-239 echoes my sentiments exactly in terms of the lurking problem.
@dram-240: More elaboration, please.
I'll have to investigate the Nik-Blastinus love connection later.
@Pom-252: Not "liking", Nikanor? Weird wording...
Another thing on my to-do list, meta-dive. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about this post irks me and just doesn't seem pro-town.
Flave-253 is basically playing The Lightining Round. Today's question: how many scummy cases and random questions can be thrown out there in the span of five minutes?
Not sure how to take that alignment-wise. It may just be null laziness, but that doesn't make me happy either way.
@Flave-regarding your question: Your vote was in very abrupt nature, relying on very RVS tells, possibly just going after people as fast as possible. The fact that your current mentality seems to be just lashing out at random people with single lines of evidence doesn't sit well with me.
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That's all I got for now. Still juggling thoughts in my head... this is more dizzying to watch than the NYSE trading floor.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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But, thing is, if you're at least making legitimate points against a person and get them lynched, even if they flip the wrong way, at least you can say to yourself (or to any suspicious parties) that you had legitimate reasoning.WarWound wrote:also im afraid to scum hunt, i dont want to make a valid point against a perason then get him lynch and then hes a townie :/
NOT scumhunting is anti-town.
@Hyl-305: I'm frustrated in general at the fact that four players aren't really contributing much to the game. That's not so much an alignment indicator (yet) as it is just a personal irk I'm having right now.
In the case of Pom, that's how she phrases her vote on Nikanor, "I don't like him." In terms of actual scumhunting, I'm not sure why you don't "like" a scum suspect emerging, heck, you should be thankful you have a lead. Not a standalone scumtell, but it's not really the most logical reason for voting either.
EBWOP on the other quote: otherlurkerissues about.
I'll try to use actual parts of names ("Honcho" for "HH", "Flava" for "FF", etc. ) in the future. I partially did it last post.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Toro: Who's on your suspect list right now?
Also... I'd like you to explain your rationale for why your posts have one line or one argument in them in a game where there are a slew of posts going at 100 MPH which bringing up multiple points and engage in nuanced debates. Where the hell are you?
@zwet: Same questions.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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@Honcho-329: First off, more to everyone, I miss questions sometimes. That's a habitual weakness of mine, and I usually catch it the second time if you remind me.
Secondly, the word scummy was neither said nor implied in the post in question. I'm in another game (ongoing at present) where we've had two lynches take place on apparent VIs, and I'm certain they were scum-driven. That's why I immediately got wary of you, who's been around longer than zwet, accused him over something that's just in his meta.
If he's scum, I'm waiting for a real tell.
@Flave-330: Most of the questions or statements, to me, were based on mere parts of quotes, and really have no thought or reason to them. That's not the sort of "active questioning" I had in mind.
@zwet-333: And why?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Flave-330:
I didn't say I *didn't like you*, I said that I think you're *scummy* for this. The difference has been established.So you don't like my playstyle. k.
@SpyreX-346: I'm gonna side with Hyl on this one, I think there are certain aspects and logic to his scumlist that I think you're merely misunderstanding. One example, can dislike someone's vote even if it's on supposed scum because perhaps the vote was a half-assed scum-distancing vote, referencing the 12KB one.
@Hyl: The only person wildly out of place on your list, to me, is Flave. Why town? Do you think I'm going down the wrong road?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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I *still* adamantly believe that WarWound is newbtown with a social disorder (which explains a lot of how he posts), and I adamantly refuse to hop on his bandwagon. We must never forget past reasoning if there's no reason that it should be deemed obsolete, and right now, I don't see why we should drop our town reads on WarWound all of a sudden.
Iguana tilts scummy now... but again... I'm struggling here putting a finger on it. I'm legitimately frustrated that I'm not able to put my thoughts into words here. Perhaps it's the defensiveness or sarcasm, but ugh, I can't tell.
Interesting how she calls WarWound pro-town...
...if scum, sounds less like a defending a scumbuddy as much as doing the town a favor by declaring pro-town.Its too bad WW is town given his contribution level, but he is town. I would take lurky town over active unknown in an endgame.
Toro and Flave tilt pro-town now for general good reasoning as of late.
My mind's fried right now.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Just like my s cum hunting, I call it as I see it.Hyl wrote:cumyabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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...sorry WW, I misread that you mentioned that "most people" had down syndrome, and forgot that you didn't specifically mention it.
That was bad of me... *headdesk*
@Anti-400: A joke. Mostly.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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@Honcho-438: Defending zwet is not a priority for me at all. The important thing is that one recognizes that he could be scummy (not at present), and you have to be aware of the reasoning that someone uses to hop on a wagon. As I recall, one of your BIG reasons was that zwet was active lurking. The two are synonymous if you know anything.
How much experience do you have with zwet?
@skitzer-445:
Quoi?en la isolacion
Again, meta has a lot to do with it. Kind of like what I'm getting off of these reads with Nikanor, I have to remind myself continually that Nik's going to screw around a lot no matter what game he's in, and that in itself isn't scummy. He's definitely shortposting a lot, but so am I. Some of his posts are just nothing but a joke... which is interesting, but I'll have to look into that later.
I hate posts like Col-453. That tone of voice "Nope, wrong, way to _____, let's not _____" is poor scumhunting to me, because to me, it's an alarm siren that the person's in danger of tunnelvisioning.
Sometimes scummy. Not leaning towards one or the other right now. Often, I unconsciously tend to associate scummy, which is why I encourage everyone to NOT use this sort of mockery methodry of scumhunting, as it's distracting and makes you look like a moron/scum even if you're right/town.
Logical and level-headed is the way to go. It's sub-par to think otherwise.
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I feel stupid that there are 5 scum (effectively) in this game and I can't really find one of them at present.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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On second thought-
Re-Vote: Nikanor
He's just screwing around/active lurking so much that it's scummy to me. It's not just "smiley" counts, he'll do that any day. It's just that a lot of his posts contribute nothing to the game.
I'll switch before deadline as necessary. All those who haven't voted yet absolutely must right now.
I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that mod sympathy is a scumtell. In games with Scum QTs, the Mafia get more communication with the mod than anybody else, and thus sort of bond with him on a personal level. I think a sort of sympathetic connection develops between scum and mod, so Nik feeling bad for him is a personal scumtell to me.
I speculate a lot. There's a difference between this and crap cases, the latter of which is scummy.
@semioldguy: On account of the large number of replacements needed for this game, I request a deadline extension.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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@self: "Dammit, Greg, you're an idiot! He's probably one of the most active players in the game with his posting levels!
Unvote, Vote: Antihero
This game currently has me frustrated. I'm gonna make sure I win one way or another, but I'm frustrated trying to pick everyone's posts apart. Usually the way I operate is to analyze connections between people, but in a large game, at least in the preliminary stages, that's extremely difficult. Flip a few people over and give me a few days and I'll have a better idea.
My vote's on AH because the case on him seems the most sound based on what I've seen from others. I have no idea, though.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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- I don't know.
- This game currently has me frustrated.
- give me a few days and I'll have a better idea.
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@Toro-473: I was wrong on the first point, and my second point is speculative, so it collapsed when the first point went away.
You need to think for yourself for a sec here. My vote-hopping is a sign of candidness and honesty, a pro-town thing. And I've repeatedly stated that I'm in a swingy sort of state right now, I don't know where everyone's at, and I don't plan on being anywhere near that point soon. It's my first large game, so seeing everything whizzing at 100 MPH is screwing me up here. To me, I think you're just thinking "oh, he's obv-hopping with his vote. Scum." Stop staring at the Wiki and play THIS game.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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Unvote, Vote: Iguana
Rationale coming later.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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Again, weaker than I want it to be, but sure as hell better than AH. Here's why:
-Voted in three posts in a row at the outset of the game (albeit one random). How can she discard cases that fast?
-despite 12KB being her adamant case at first, has now all but abandonned it. Not once mentioning Antihero, especially since at least one other player is noticing scumtells in his posts, is an alarm that she's lazily slipping off it while nobody's looking.
-First time she posts scumlist, appears thrown together and offers no rationale behind most of her suspects. This shouldn't be seen as pro-town at all.
-is trying to push a lynch merely of someone who's anti-town. That's taking advantage of someone who just doesn't play well. I see no outright scumtells in that post. This is the sort of thing I brought up with Honcho, we need to see actual scumtells. Insisting that being a poor player is scummy is scummy in itself.
-consistently asserted at one point "WarWound is town". It didn't sound so much like she had evidence for it so much as she knew already from a scum position. Granted, this diminishes with a known SK in play, but it still feels like she's feeding concrete information to us that she knows of already.
Zwets and Pom, please explain votes further please.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Iguana: I've seen *nothing* that says scummy from zwet, and I must've missed your cases that indicate otherwise. SpyreX, same to you. You've basically highlighted the active lurking, which is consistent with his play.
The "helping the town" bit is a speculative tell. However, something in me would think that the scum kind of helps out the town by just sort of gently saying "oh yeah, he's obvtown", but it's not necessarilybased on seeing actual play, just seeing that he's floundering was enough. That's what I based it off of.
Posting a random scumlist with no basis behind the players at the time (so player-by-player analysis (PLBPLA) isn't going to help me now) was not scumhunting to me. It's not scummy, per se, but it's not scumhunting either since you're basically just randomly putting people down. I thought it was a little too soon to be putting suspects down in your tiers with only a few posts from each.
AH was a mistake. I also missed your "random wagoning" bit.
@zwet-525: You voted before I posted the rationale. How can you say that you voted me for posting weak rationale that I never had down?
Am I *scummy*, zwet? I'm anti-town as hell today, but I also sure as hell don't think I deserve a vote.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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I really, really don't see the contradiction between the two posts. Are we finding information lynches scummy? Help me out here.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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@Honcho-539: Basically, you're wrong if you think my priority was to protect zwet completely. I felt your accusations were off the mark.
@Iguana-541:
Doing that is scummy to me, so I'm intrigued. Anybody in particular you see doing this?Why is it that I make a case and people wagon up the player on mostly unrelated things?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Iguana, once again, my cases have been half-assed all game. If you're still operating on the definition that everyone should be an idealistic pro-town player, then you are sorely mistaken. And I've stated this so many fucking times already, do you not believe me?
I would've rather you posted why WW was town at the beginning, when he was doing nothing. If you have any tells from before, please tell me.
And I think it's too time-consuming to look for everyone's vote on AH/12KB, I'm not gonna do that. I'd rather go off observations you have off-hand, which you hinted at having, but if you don't have any, never mind. I'm just too busy to do the looking right now.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@zwet-561: Not a defense. Why are they wrong to suggest you're self-contradicting?
And please explain your vote on me.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Lack of defense is scummy.Because I'm not. And you made a very scummy vote.
Unvote, Vote: zwetschenwasser
I'm completely satisfied now.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Policy lynch is another word entirely, btw. I think confusion stemmed out of that.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Toro, your scumhunting methods are extremely ineffective. Either accuse WarWound directly and force him to respond or clam it. Pick one.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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First off, anti-town reads inherently have a scum tilt on it. Obviously, it gives way to any outright scum suspects (which there were none really) at the time, but understand that at no point I ever read him as town. So this "wondrous" turnaround is a hyperbole. I absolutely loathe hyperboles. People who decide to use exaggerated propaganda (a WONDROUS turnaround) in their posts are ridiculous because it's not logic, it's manipulation (one can call it advertising... but that's what advertising does, too). Not the town's job to manipulate town.
I gave a reason, so it's not OMGUS. You're overusing the acronym as well.
I no less just explained above my vote that he refused to defend against my case or explain anything. That's nothing but his fault if I decide to vote him for being scummy at this moment, because his OMGUSing me (which I *can* assume because he hasn't provided true reasoning for why I'm scummy) and refusal to explain further his self-contradiction leads me to believe that my interpretations are correct.
Regardless of alignment? I'd totally agree with the general format of this hypothesis in general if he flips town, but it starts to get screwed up if we're right and he flips scum and SK since the former you're really looking for distancing cases and SK, well, you can't say they weren't scumhunting. I can elaborate further on that if you're not convinced.1-2 players voting Zwet are scum. (Iguana, Spy, Pom, Blast, War, Yabba). In order of liklieness: Pom, Yabba, Spy, War, Iguana, Blast.
Do you actually think I'm scummy Flave, or is this merely comparative? I haven't seen *any* mention to you calling me scum.
@Grimmy: Why do you think AH is scummy?
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I'm less busy now. I think I'm starting to get my way around this game, but just to make sure, I'll make this my only one.
Still waiting on actual replies from zwet. A lot of people seem to be re-reading too, looking forward to it.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Pom-587: I agree with it.
...I'm not quite sure what you're looking for here.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Brosius, I'm construing you as an active lurker right now. Please convince me otherwise.
WarWound-597 + 599 is now outright scummy. Gloating about merely surviving the game and then trying to drag me down with him over a REALLY random thing is not something to be overlooked.
The fact that zwets is going after WarWound is screwing me up a bit, but there are probably multiple explanations for that.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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Just don't be too slow, Yankee. I know Macs can be like that.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Scott: bigger posts please. You are active lurking.
@WarWound-627: Don't say sorry, do sorry.
@SpyreX-628: I also don't want WW lynched yet, but this deserves some mention:
Playing just to survive is scummy, usually. Maybe it could just be a screwy concept of ideals on how to play the game, though... but the more I serve myself that "he's just a newbie" WIFOM, the more I'm beginning to doubt it.WarWound wrote:ha its funny none take notice of toro's accusations against me , I find it to be humorous.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Note that, folks. If zwet flips Mafia (specifically!), I think zwet is oddly trying to take the pressure off a fellow scumbuddy and is now *trying* to get himself hung with that post. I naturally assume that apparent sabotage is done with their faction's best interest in mind. Continue to lynch zwet, but I think that's an indicator that one of our prior wagons that had steam might be right.zwetschenwasser wrote:You all make me laugh.
If he flips town... well... zwet played like an anti-town dumbass anyways. SK, well yay, but none of the above means anything in that case, either.
Large games are anti-town for this very reason.semioldguy wrote:Blastinus, Toro, Flava Flave, Head_Honcho, skitzer, Antihero, Grimmy and ZazieR have all been prodded.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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I'm operating on the assumption that "shot" = mafia and "choked" = SK. I don't think that's quite useful info yet... but I'll have a look.
Dramonic voted for 12KB and Iguana... but cited "buddying" as a reason for the latter, so I don't think he leads us much of anywhere, unfortunately.
Scott, on the other hand, slammed a vote on Col at some point, and prior had a case on 12KB. Or maybe a powerrole vibe in general was picked up by Mafia, but I thought for sure active lurking made him tilt scum, so I'm fascinated why Mafia would pick him off there.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Nikanor, if you say something along the lines of "Yabbaguy, you are scummy for _____," that would be the first time all game anyone has done that, to my recollection.
So, explain please.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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You can't just toss that statement out without justifying it.He tried to white knight zwet with a bunch of nonsenseyabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Vote: Abandon Game
This game is out of control right now in terms of player inactivity. This isn't even fair to town anymore.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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The number of replacements, but also the number of flakers right now. I could theoretically flesh out a list of 10+ questions to give the players some baby steps to come back into the game, but there's absolutely no reason for it. Everyone has seen enough to have something to say at this point, and yet everyone is making the choice (loose term in some cases) to flake and replace out.
I dunno. I think everyone's either stopped caring ages ago, or just can't keep up.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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Anti-town behavior is exactly what we need right now. I approve.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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@Miche-730: Your case includes points on the following, and I don't understand why these are deemed a scumtell.
-Expressing confusion over how to interpret an anti-town player. To me, you interpret this as me saying "He's a hopeless case, let's just get him out of the way." However, this was said with no intention of having zwet lynched.
-Believing anti-town players innocent until proven guilty. Yes, I absolutely took advantage of guilty proof in the later stages of the Day, but this does not necessarily correlate with scum behavior. That's what I thought initially when I made posts to zwet trying to get him to act more pro-town. Then when the scumslip was brought up, I simply made the jump from anti-town to scum. It's completely normal.
-Me waiting for "a good moment" to wagon. It is a townie's duty to look for players who look like they are on the edge of going scummy (hence the IGMEOY acronym, which is basically implicit in all my prior posts), and then once identifying a scumtell, voting for them. It's not scum opportunism.
-Asking to clarify a scumtell. It is a townie's job to seek information and clarification when necessary. Why am I not allowed as town to act upon information once it is clarified?
My fault for hypocritically misusing the OMGUS acronym, but that's not scummy, that's just me being forgetful.
I have no comment on the Scott Brosius matter. I wasn't trying to distance at all here, and that's really all I can say at this point. A faint possibility of scum trying to set me up here as next-in-line comes to mind, however.
Voting to abandon the game, however, is your biggest stretch in the whole case. I said that because I felt, as town, that this game was way too unfair for *us*, and that I'd rather not complete the game under these horrifically difficult pretenses.
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I think ultimately it boils down to a point of scum opportunism vs. townie scumhunting. I, granted, did not come up with any original proof because I was thoroughly lost in the whole clutter of the game, so I decided to simply go along with what others were saying. Yes, I'm a bandwagonner. I made the mistake as town of not thinking for myself. And I made a solemn promise D1 which I'm planning to keep that I will try to think for myself.
I'm sorry I blindly followed. But it's not scummy.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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Michel:
This sounds like Don LaFontaine with a propaganda-esque first sentence. Propaganda's the work of scum because it's the very thing they do, manipulation. Why did you decide to throw that in?Because there is someone scummier around. Someone who, like Iguana, has been hoping for a zwet lynch from the beginning...
You also refuse to acknowledge my pro-town explanation without actually contradicting it. He just merely piggybacks on his initial points "But I still believe X,Y,Z." Do you deny that my points are actually equally plausible? I think it's another situation of innocent-until-proven-guilty.
@Nikanor: I think it's actually a great scum tactic to go after someone who's coming under fire and try to work up a wagon on them. Why do you think it's extremely implausible?
@SpyreX: Do you get emotionally passionate about Mafia in general? The fact that all your posts are riddled with emotes and emotions has me a bit on edge, like you're almost joking around.
Also:
Why?Although I'm not sure what I think about [Iguana's] mod question considering what we've seen happen. I'd REALLY rather it not be answered in any fashion personally.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Vote: StrangerCougfor not making any attempt to look up the answer himself.
...Unvoteyabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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...that's basically how I random vote in the late game. That's your cue to stop taking it seriously.Coug-781 wrote:It's a good thing you unvoted me in the exact same post, because you're accusing me of irrelevant laziness in this post.
persay"Per se," Iguana.
@Michel:
Not really the question so much as why you decided to sugarcoat that topic sentence. It sounds like unnecessary dramatics, which isn't scumhunting to me.Because I wanted to explain why I didn't vote Iguana even though I have strong suspicions about her.
Ever? I completely disagree with this. Look, people are exposing logical contradictions right now. That's guilty evidence, not a crapshoot.The town can't afford to use an innocent-until-proven-guilty reasoning.
I still believe you owe an explanation as to why one explanation of my attitude towards zwet is more plausible than the other. I don't think you've explained how I was opportunistic in any way, or making an unexpected reverse shift with my vantage. What in my posts tips you one way or the other? Or is it some track record that exists that you've observed over time?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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I'm so fucking livid. I don't even feel like putting nearly all my points and post # refs back, because I had a nice post, and then I hit the goddamned X button on my browser.
@Nikanor: How would the scenario of scum targetting me be more obvoius? Admittedly, Michel slides back into the town column for me, so the theory dwindles a bit, but how would that be the case?
@Michel: Basically, all it boils down to is that you believe that my fencesitting is actually scum just waiting to pounce when I had the chance. However, it really was just me being speculative on zwet throughout, and yes, I was waiting for him to slip up so that he could be exposed as scum. When it came, I jumped on it.
@SpyreX: What were you hoping to gain from the logic debate?
@ClergyMan: You don't actually mention where the logic debate is headed. Do you think SpyreX is actually trying to find scum in Michel, or vice versa?
@Kreriov: Yeah, it's true, guilty proof isn't really 100% in the case of D1, for sure, otherwise zwet would've flipped scum with "concrete" evidence. Part of what spawned the statement was that I initially thought SpyreX's debate was trying to actually probe Michel's alignment. ClergyMan's throwing that into question (I think?) but that's what I consider proof, being shown to have logical inconsitencies.
@Coug: I also find the reasoning for your voting crappy. I don't know whether it's actually scum opportunism or that you're just completely tossing the issue of meta out of the picture. Nikanor, he's kinda screwing around, but that does make him scum, or is it just consistent with his meta of being screwy Nikanor? WarWound, yes, he's been making shit attacks all game, but do you think he was actually capable as opposed to just being stupid? And how about Michel, who you claim had a logical inconsistency. That's nice. Why is he scummy?
Good, I have my points down on the page again. I'm gonna hit Submit, and then stop typing. I'm so mad right now I lost my pristine post.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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I need to re-read later. I was about to post a list of who I want wagonned, but then realized I'm not passionate about any of my hitlist candidates. I need to reassess. Interaction scumhunting is so much harder in a large game...
I'm deliberating a policy vote on the anti-town who's basically thrown the white flag, but y'know... they can flip town, too. It's not like saber was under fire for anything, either. Let's fix that.
@saber: What gives with the selfvoting? Are you still trying to win?yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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