Open 177 (Monks and Masons) - Game Over.

[Nachomamma8]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HAYLSTORM :O

On a unrelated note, I'm still trying to push through this game. It's taking a while, you see. Yami gave me a really bad feeling based off his Maemuki interaction Day 1 (reminded of Haylen and Battlemage in Zachtown).

Ben was right about the farside-scien interactions... I got through the first 3 monstrous walls of text, and I said fuck it. Sorry guys.

Currently on page 15. Don't do anything stupid until I fiinish.

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry i broke rules.. that wasn't my attention. Here's what was deleted, nothing to special since i'm only caught up to page 4:

Here's what i got:

Chronological read of the thread and breakdown of thoughts/comments/notes taken while reading the whole thread in its entirety written in Word(this is for both my benefit and hopefully yours/the game(sorry if my note taking is scattered)(gonna be extra detailed for you and so after I read the thread I can reread my own notes and grasp how I felt..because my brain will probably be mush after this read)):

Intro read is nice. Haylen put a lot of work into this…poor hayl.

Uhoh General Rule #1.

Set-up…I don’t wanna try outguessing the mod, but the flavor makes it appear as if theres 2 werewolves right? Unless the werewolf in the flavor isn’t representative of a player…but that wouldn’t make sense…would it??...oh noess wifom already!?!?

Spelling error in Mason PM “you can talk to your other masin”

Question on setup…there can be 2 regular monks, or 2 regular masons right? There doesn’t have to be a werewolf or mafia one right?

Day One:

2ndpost God I hate Zazier o.O…(gonna try and be not bias)

Scien Post 8…already trying to look “town”. Dislike.

Woah..Post 9 YJ. First emotion dislike. (After deep exhale). I kinda like. Towntell?

Post 10: EB that’s not discussing and a bad vote. Obv dislike.

11: Maemuki quotes zazier…self votes..w.t.f after YJ and EB. Dislike.
12: ODDiN also ignore YJ. Dislike.
13: YJ, now wagoning Mae..hmm null read at the moment. (That’s a lie…I slightly dislike it…but why…I don’t know)

Alright so real rvs crap ensues…..

(I too like Hayl’s notes)

(Whose YankeeCan 151? Post 22)

23: Farside doesn’t like exchange between Mae+YJ….i did. Calls Sciens crap a “good thought”… Opening call. Farside is scum, which I guess could mean he could be mafia or werewolf in this game. Scien and farside do not share a QT.

Good legitimate conversation already.

Yeah this dudes scum too.

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum.

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting

How the hell can you think this is odd? Its not that he didnt confirm...he never picked up his role PM. (And there were only 2 people who posted/RV prior to your assessment fyi..."yet no one mentioned it":roll: )

Your views are all over the place if I am reading this right.

I disagree.

What was a good thought? How was it a good thought? If its a null tell, why do you want me to aggressively pursue it?

You are not making sense lady.

Ugh I hate when people just rattle off a bunch of useless/poor questions.

------------------------------
I'm debating not reading my role pm until finishing the read..but i dont know if i have that kinda willpower...so far it still says "no new messages" but if it says 1 how will i resist checking!!

--------------------------------


On page 4 now. Here's where I'm at...still no word from hayl...it'd suck/be weird to not be put into the game o.O:

S
But to see someone hesitate as you did in the beggining dancing around the subject felt like someone trying to come up with fluff and see who agrees with it.

Agree.

Hmm.

Later in the game, yes, pushing hard on weak evidence is a scum tell. As a first post, having ANY evidence is great - the goal is to get out of RVS as soon as possible. Refusing to put pressure on other players out of fear of being attacked comes across as very anti-town: it reflects the scum motive of being more concerned about staying alive than finding villains.

I'll have to ponder this. Either a bad play as over-conservative town or a tipped hand as a villain. For the moment I like my vote as it is until I hear an explanation from Nik.

Reading this I was going good, good good….but the 2nd paragraph blows. You like your RV over what appears to be the best lead thus far….Trying to be to careful. Very scummy. Show some balls, be aggressive.

I would have been attacked for using a weak observation on someone, if that observation is all I had, and I needed to stretch for the rest. This would not have been good for the town. I can weather a bit of scrutiny, but getting the town to focus on me is wasting time trying to find scum. It would not have made sense for me to walk down a path where the town would immediately make me the main suspicion.

Bad logic...and being the lead of discussion even seeing a wagon grow on yourself isnt bad, nor bad for the town. Could've obtained a lot of information from it, and I dont like your excuse.

I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.

Agree.

What I expected? Either people directly telling me to STFU because it was WIFOM, or maybe people lightly speculating. Both of which would give me views on them. I didn't expect it to be used in a case (that would have been very odd and I would have been highly critical of it).

I guess I kind of lost sight of that in the immediate defense I had to make due to your strong attack. That attack caught me off guard.

Seems sincere, despite being a bad move.

Do you folks really have to write so many walls?

QFT

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

farside gave herself the newbcard in her first post. However, her attacks on Scien make it clear that she intends to not use said newbcard.
i.e. I believe farside was just being modest when she said she was out of touch, so her first post is not a tell.

Knew it…this was obvious. Bad mae.

You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

Asking stupid, easily deflected questions is scummy. It appears to be participating, but instead of actually adding content that you make, you are having others add content. Also, are you not self voting at this point? Why maintain it?

True, and good point.

Maemuki's play style but so far it has given me nothing warm, fuzzy or substantial. She's somebody I feel is either anti-town or scum. I'm not voting on her as anti-town is dangerous however one thing I learned with this set up.

Shes relatively new if i recall and my one games worth of experience with her was nothing impressive. In fact i think she lurked hard too...so a policy lynch seems in order.

Well well, out of the RVS already.

On the farside / Scien exchange:
It seems to me farside is being extremely and overly aggressive. The argument against Scien does have a point, but it's not an overly strong point. Yes, it raises an eyebrow that he decided not to push it a bit further to get out of the RVS - but nothing more than that. It's a very, very weak scum tell at best. farside is, IMO, blowing it completely out of proportion.
She's also getting "royally pissed" over this, and I'm not sure why that is. I mean, really, headdesk over that?
It's also giving me a tunneling vibe. She's practically disregarded all other players during that exchange.

This reads as chainsaw defense. Tunneling? Noone else has really said anything yet.

Other thing of note: in posts 26 and 27, Wulfy and maemuki continue playing randomly even though we're clearly out of the RVS by that point. Especially alarming is Maemuki, who's also still voting for herself.

This is good.

wouldn't it have been better to vote one of Wulfy or ODDin, instead of your random vote? If you agree, why didn't you do so?

Woooo! Bring on the Zazie Spamfest, I love 'em ~Hayl

i hate them and her

Yeah yeah yeah..repeating old news doesnt make you look good.

Claim: Bulletproof Jester

Discuss.

YJ

Today we learn what's special about Open Games. Namely, the roles present are listed in one of the first few posts. See you all next time.

Have you used this 'tactic' before?

Oh wow lol i forgot this is an open setup when i read that...(this is my first open game)

Well, your assurance is good enough for me.

Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanor

for not posting yet.

Why Nikanor and did this vote have a purpose or was it still random?

Obviously random…such questions/posts are pointless and don’t make you look good.

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum.

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.

That's why I chose the word 'odd' and not scummy.

There is no way to derive meaning from this...

so I can't attribute scum points for it.

This is scummy. First reason, stating that he can't see himself a real case in it. So why is it odd to him then that nobody pointed it out?
Secondly, saying the bolded.

Then why point it out?

Word.

No, what she's saying makes a lot of sense.
You pointed something out. Discussing that would have been better than a RVS in case it's worth pursuing (Hence, it being a good thought). Yet, you dismiss it and instead go for a random vote (Hence the criticising of you not being aggressive about it).

QFT

Well, your assurance is good enough for me.

Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanor

for not posting yet.

Why Nikanor and did this vote have a purpose or was it still random?

In my last game town lost to a trio of lurker-scum. Another game we were both involved in is now over 5 months long because of lurkers and inactives. So I'm getting kind of touchy about the subject and starting to lean towards the Lynch All Lurkers mentality.

Also, my vote on Maemuki wasn't serious, provided no pressure so was unproductive, and although her wagon wasn't in much danger of an accidental lynch I didn't feel comfortable letting my vote sit there when I logged off.

Nikanor was the first person on the list that hadn't yet posted (and the first one period) and I didn't see any other appealing wagon. So it was a little arbitrary (in selection) and a lot policy (as to why).

This is either baloney or just crap reasoning. Either way I don’t like it. It was soo damn early. Trust me, noone is going to go after and lynch lurkers/active lurkers/bad players harder than me.

Your bias-ness is so strong you made a “real” vote this early over it….and yet don’t have the lynch all lurker mentality yet….odd.(And by odd I mean you’re scum)

I thought it was worth mentioning that we had a 'random' vote on what was a person who had not checked in the game yet. It's WIFOM to have suggested anything else about it, and it wouldn't have helped town. However it is something worth noting. Combined with future actions, it may give sight to motives involved.

Before I'll comment on this, can you elaborate on what you mean with 'future actions' in this case?
Also, from this post (Post 37), I get the impression you're suspicious of Farside. If this is true, why no vote?

Future actions…i.e. future scummy behavior/slips etc. Dur…Zazier is bad. Giant tells don’t happen every game. Lotsa small tells/slips/scummy behavior can make a case where none exist.

So in this "choose your own adventure", I immediately attack ODDin on the grounds that he is 'random' voting for an inactive, someone who wouldn't have defended themselves. (Or I guess Wulf on the grounds of the late confirm. Depending on which I wanted to pressure more). I would have to overextend a lot here, because it IS early game and there's nothing to back me up.

Town/scum catch this, and depending on their alignment will manipulate it, or be critical of it. I will get accused for pushing a weak case, and fabricating suspicion. Mainly pretty anti-town stuff. Pressure is immediately taken off ODDin in favor of me, and we are in the same mess as we are now for different reasons.

First of all, you're stating that you'd see whom of Wulfy and ODDin you'd have wanted to presure more. If you wanted to pressure one of them, why no vote?
Secondly, it's noted that you thought that much about yourself.

First is you repeating old news again, Second is actually a good point.

And

Maemuki

, what were your thoughts about the wagon on you?

Well, I made it. It was to make discussion, it worked, and I assumed that the Mafia and the Werewolves wouldn't quicklynch on Day 1. That would be the same as wearing a T-Shirt saying "Please lynch me".

An obvious answer to a badd question. Zazier sucks more.

@ farside,

Scien: you seem to misunderstand me. I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game.

Not really. There are many people on the site, some play aggresively, others don't, right? It depends, so aggresiveness is a null-tell on my eyes.

Because your so experienced. (massive sarcasm)

@ to whoever said that my apparently worthless question asking is scummy,

I'll talk to you later. They may seem useless now, but as I said, I'll talk to you later.

I'm lookin forward to this.

The only thing I don't like from EB's post, is this:

Nikanor was the first person on the list that hadn't yet posted (and the first one period) and I didn't see any other appealing wagon. So it was a little arbitrary (in selection) and a lot policy (as to why).

Calling his Nik vote a policy vote based upon him not having posted yet, while the game started the same day as his vote was made.

I also don't trust policy lynches.

Now. QFT

Through page 4:

No, I never self-voted period before. I randomly felt like it. As for the reason, I wanted to make discussion. It worked, didn't it?

Well, we have discussion now. But most of it isn't caused by your selfvote or wagon. It barely brings any discussion and a selfvote is most of the time a distraction.

Good point

As for the head desk, do you disagree that when somebody points out something he sees as a possible lead, but doesn't persue it, deserves a head desk or something like that or not?

Who cares..ugh, fluff questions ftl

It's also giving me a tunneling vibe. She's practically disregarded all other players during that exchange.

Not liking this. There's barely any discussion besides the arguments between Scien and Farside. Heck, even you (ODDin) mentioned one thing besides this discussion.

My point exactly.

The head desk was actually because of YJ and Maemuki exchange. It made me want to cry. Also note I'm very sarcastic person and it's just my nature to be sarcastic.

Ahh i did think it was sarcastic humor.

Not having evidence cost the game. I don't want that to happen again. Do either of you feel that's a scum tell?

lol what a garbage question. Yeahhh its a huge scum tell that you want activity and evidence (massive sarcasm for those who can't read between the lines )

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Mmmmm yes, no, maybe? Not necessarily. Sometimes a vote is to gage a response.

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Is this really all you have to add so far?

Word.

Not liking this. There's barely any discussion besides the arguments between Scien and Farside. Heck, even you (ODDin) mentioned one thing besides this discussion.

That's why I said "tunneling vibe". It's not strictly tunneling at this point, due to the lack of much else to talk about.

Also, I don't think my quote of farside is twisting her words. All I said is what I felt when I read that (yes, I felt that even though knew it technically came as a reply to a question on the subject). That's what I felt, so I wanted to let the town know I feel that. I'm not saying I'm certain this is the case, but people need to be aware that that post by farside might have had an ulterior motive, so to speak.

Backtrackin scum.

Is this really all you have to add so far?

It's a valid question.

It, as in the question asked to you, or as in your last post...cause your post seemed more of a comment or statement rather than a question.

If you're referring to farsides question, than I think we've found our first VT.

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Are you saying we shouldn't vote at all until we're positive who is scum? What's your opinion on the use of a vote for pressure?

What's your take on Nikanor? Farside? Scien?

I see you posted several times elsewhere yesterday. Why not here?

Here some more inquisitive crap from EB...he trying to look good...rattle off a buncha questions etc.

Am I the only one noticing Oddin pointing out my flaws and reaction but neglecting to mention scien at all and his reactions to being called out?
Or the fact that Oddi pointed to an explaination and seems to twist it into something insubstantial that is pure conjection and not fact based?

Nope, I noticed too.

First of all, hello there Benmage. Please DON'T post before you read your role PM. It can give you an advantage if you're scum (I did it myself without realising the consequences not too long ago).

?? dont i want an advantage if i end up being scum...?

Please clarify what you are talking about so we know what to talk about.

Translation: Please give me some more crap to discuss so it looks like i'm active and discussing, cause this tangents gonna go nowhere.

(Epiphany RBT will replace YankeeCane)

I'm getting some good vibes from both Scien and farside here, so I won't vote either of them. Instead, I'll...

Vote: YamiJoey

for his double standards regarding EB and Wulfy. Wulfy gets a vote for hopping on the Maemuki wagon to put her at L-3, but YJ does not mention EB's L-3 vote on Maemuki just a few posts prior.

I read this as YJ simply unvoting Mae because his joke to wagon her was seeming too real with all the subsequent voters....His vote on Wulfy was imo simply another/new RV.

You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

?? It seems pretty apparent… Fars attacks on Scien illustrate shes not gonna hide behind the “newbcard”. Had Far not acted thusly Nik would’ve been voting her.

Erm...you're calling him out for not doing something you'd find scummy? This is even worse than Scien's vague suspicion thing.

Not calling him out, commending him(her).

If you did not find it so worthwhile then why mention it in the first place?

I thought it was worth mentioning that we had a 'random' vote on what was a person who had not checked in the game yet.

Hmm…Maybe you should’ve voted Oddin to gauge his reasoning. But it looked like a harmless RV from me.

I am looking for scum... I am not looking for small things that can excuse my vote.

Ah, so your role PM reads werewolf.

If my two phrases were weak, why do you suggest an aggressive case? What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?

I see weak case and I'm going to question your motive. I see an attempt at a weak comment with a random vote and pounce on it wondering if your vagueness is a slight buss, or if it means more.

Brilliant. I think Oddin could be scum too…or well werewolf.

Since I"m royally pissed off at this back and forth lets start from the beginning.

Oh god…dreading reading the rest of this posts..i’m already tired of reading you and scien.

New line of thought: One of these two or both might be town. Both are showing a high level of activity/commitment/forefront to this game which is a strong town tell…Although one might be forced into this sight via the other, and I give the town edge to farside.

However, I do agree that his choice of a random vote rather than pursuing a weak case is questionable and anti-town. Scien comes across as deliberately obtuse in avoiding addressing that issue:

What is the townie benefit of aggressively pushing a weak case?

...rather than RVS? I think it's obvious. So why did you choose as you did, Scien?

Bingo, good post.

Post 44 (Scien’s rings town)

Long story short there is NO manipulation here, I am not trying to fool anyone. Your initial complains were worded as to criticize me for not pushing 'a good idea'. A 'good idea' that you call a null tell and criticize me later for even bringing up in the first point. I saw this as an inconsistency and tried to question over it, but apparently pissed you off in doing so.

It was odd that you commented and didnt pursue it. Even if the case is null to weak it would've been an easy way to spur out of the RVS which seemed like something you wanted to do simply by making the comment. You commenting and just tossing out a RV seems like a poor move.

"Why were you pushing a weak case on someone when you didn't have much to go on. You are manipulating the situation scum."

Or.

"Why did you not use your observation in an attack on ODDin or Wulf. You are manipulating the situation by pushing cases that you don't want to be involved in. Scum."

Of course I didn't foresee how much trouble I would get into for not pushing a weak case. Wow, that last sentence is not something I ever expected to have to say.

It was the rv stage…you wanted to start discussion…there is never anything strong to go on early…seems like several things to explain your actions if you chose to pursue Oddin.

------------------------------Post 47 looks like I’m gonna be replacing in now.



On page 4 now. Here's where I'm at...still no word from hayl...it'd suck/be weird to not be put into the game o.O:

S
But to see someone hesitate as you did in the beggining dancing around the subject felt like someone trying to come up with fluff and see who agrees with it.

Agree.

Hmm.

Later in the game, yes, pushing hard on weak evidence is a scum tell. As a first post, having ANY evidence is great - the goal is to get out of RVS as soon as possible. Refusing to put pressure on other players out of fear of being attacked comes across as very anti-town: it reflects the scum motive of being more concerned about staying alive than finding villains.

I'll have to ponder this. Either a bad play as over-conservative town or a tipped hand as a villain. For the moment I like my vote as it is until I hear an explanation from Nik.

Reading this I was going good, good good….but the 2nd paragraph blows. You like your RV over what appears to be the best lead thus far….Trying to be to careful. Very scummy. Show some balls, be aggressive.

I would have been attacked for using a weak observation on someone, if that observation is all I had, and I needed to stretch for the rest. This would not have been good for the town. I can weather a bit of scrutiny, but getting the town to focus on me is wasting time trying to find scum. It would not have made sense for me to walk down a path where the town would immediately make me the main suspicion.

Bad logic...and being the lead of discussion even seeing a wagon grow on yourself isnt bad, nor bad for the town. Could've obtained a lot of information from it, and I dont like your excuse.

I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game. They either followers, or they hem and haw or backtrack or make wishy washy comments. I don't go after the agressive person. typically scum watches, waits and doesn't do much else.

Agree.

What I expected? Either people directly telling me to STFU because it was WIFOM, or maybe people lightly speculating. Both of which would give me views on them. I didn't expect it to be used in a case (that would have been very odd and I would have been highly critical of it).

I guess I kind of lost sight of that in the immediate defense I had to make due to your strong attack. That attack caught me off guard.

Seems sincere, despite being a bad move.

Do you folks really have to write so many walls?

QFT

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

farside gave herself the newbcard in her first post. However, her attacks on Scien make it clear that she intends to not use said newbcard.
i.e. I believe farside was just being modest when she said she was out of touch, so her first post is not a tell.

Knew it…this was obvious. Bad mae.

You would be my vote right now were it not for your attacks on Scien.

Explain, please. It makes me think that you suspect Scien now, yet you're voting YJ. Which one is scummier? Why?

Asking stupid, easily deflected questions is scummy. It appears to be participating, but instead of actually adding content that you make, you are having others add content. Also, are you not self voting at this point? Why maintain it?

True, and good point.

Maemuki's play style but so far it has given me nothing warm, fuzzy or substantial. She's somebody I feel is either anti-town or scum. I'm not voting on her as anti-town is dangerous however one thing I learned with this set up.

Shes relatively new if i recall and my one games worth of experience with her was nothing impressive. In fact i think she lurked hard too...so a policy lynch seems in order.

Well well, out of the RVS already.

On the farside / Scien exchange:
It seems to me farside is being extremely and overly aggressive. The argument against Scien does have a point, but it's not an overly strong point. Yes, it raises an eyebrow that he decided not to push it a bit further to get out of the RVS - but nothing more than that. It's a very, very weak scum tell at best. farside is, IMO, blowing it completely out of proportion.
She's also getting "royally pissed" over this, and I'm not sure why that is. I mean, really, headdesk over that?
It's also giving me a tunneling vibe. She's practically disregarded all other players during that exchange.

This reads as chainsaw defense. Tunneling? Noone else has really said anything yet.

Other thing of note: in posts 26 and 27, Wulfy and maemuki continue playing randomly even though we're clearly out of the RVS by that point. Especially alarming is Maemuki, who's also still voting for herself.

This is good.

wouldn't it have been better to vote one of Wulfy or ODDin, instead of your random vote? If you agree, why didn't you do so?

Woooo! Bring on the Zazie Spamfest, I love 'em ~Hayl

i hate them and her

Yeah yeah yeah..repeating old news doesnt make you look good.

Claim: Bulletproof Jester

Discuss.

YJ

Today we learn what's special about Open Games. Namely, the roles present are listed in one of the first few posts. See you all next time.

Have you used this 'tactic' before?

Oh wow lol i forgot this is an open setup when i read that...(this is my first open game)

Well, your assurance is good enough for me.

Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanor

for not posting yet.

Why Nikanor and did this vote have a purpose or was it still random?

Obviously random…such questions/posts are pointless and don’t make you look good.

The only time I see people touch on a possible scummy thing and back off our typically scum.

I don't see how it is possibly scummy. I think it is odd that he hasn't confirmed yet and no one mentioned it, especially for people random voting, but its just a poof of WIFOM really, and there is no real reason to try and push it as a real case.

That's why I chose the word 'odd' and not scummy.

There is no way to derive meaning from this...

so I can't attribute scum points for it.

This is scummy. First reason, stating that he can't see himself a real case in it. So why is it odd to him then that nobody pointed it out?
Secondly, saying the bolded.

Then why point it out?

Word.

No, what she's saying makes a lot of sense.
You pointed something out. Discussing that would have been better than a RVS in case it's worth pursuing (Hence, it being a good thought). Yet, you dismiss it and instead go for a random vote (Hence the criticising of you not being aggressive about it).

QFT

Well, your assurance is good enough for me.

Unvote Maemuki, Vote Nikanor

for not posting yet.

Why Nikanor and did this vote have a purpose or was it still random?

In my last game town lost to a trio of lurker-scum. Another game we were both involved in is now over 5 months long because of lurkers and inactives. So I'm getting kind of touchy about the subject and starting to lean towards the Lynch All Lurkers mentality.

Also, my vote on Maemuki wasn't serious, provided no pressure so was unproductive, and although her wagon wasn't in much danger of an accidental lynch I didn't feel comfortable letting my vote sit there when I logged off.

Nikanor was the first person on the list that hadn't yet posted (and the first one period) and I didn't see any other appealing wagon. So it was a little arbitrary (in selection) and a lot policy (as to why).

This is either baloney or just crap reasoning. Either way I don’t like it. It was soo damn early. Trust me, noone is going to go after and lynch lurkers/active lurkers/bad players harder than me.

Your bias-ness is so strong you made a “real” vote this early over it….and yet don’t have the lynch all lurker mentality yet….odd.(And by odd I mean you’re scum)

I thought it was worth mentioning that we had a 'random' vote on what was a person who had not checked in the game yet. It's WIFOM to have suggested anything else about it, and it wouldn't have helped town. However it is something worth noting. Combined with future actions, it may give sight to motives involved.

Before I'll comment on this, can you elaborate on what you mean with 'future actions' in this case?
Also, from this post (Post 37), I get the impression you're suspicious of Farside. If this is true, why no vote?

Future actions…i.e. future scummy behavior/slips etc. Dur…Zazier is bad. Giant tells don’t happen every game. Lotsa small tells/slips/scummy behavior can make a case where none exist.

So in this "choose your own adventure", I immediately attack ODDin on the grounds that he is 'random' voting for an inactive, someone who wouldn't have defended themselves. (Or I guess Wulf on the grounds of the late confirm. Depending on which I wanted to pressure more). I would have to overextend a lot here, because it IS early game and there's nothing to back me up.

Town/scum catch this, and depending on their alignment will manipulate it, or be critical of it. I will get accused for pushing a weak case, and fabricating suspicion. Mainly pretty anti-town stuff. Pressure is immediately taken off ODDin in favor of me, and we are in the same mess as we are now for different reasons.

First of all, you're stating that you'd see whom of Wulfy and ODDin you'd have wanted to presure more. If you wanted to pressure one of them, why no vote?
Secondly, it's noted that you thought that much about yourself.

First is you repeating old news again, Second is actually a good point.

And

Maemuki

, what were your thoughts about the wagon on you?

Well, I made it. It was to make discussion, it worked, and I assumed that the Mafia and the Werewolves wouldn't quicklynch on Day 1. That would be the same as wearing a T-Shirt saying "Please lynch me".

An obvious answer to a badd question. Zazier sucks more.

@ farside,

Scien: you seem to misunderstand me. I notice that very few scum now how to be aggressive in the beginning of the game.

Not really. There are many people on the site, some play aggresively, others don't, right? It depends, so aggresiveness is a null-tell on my eyes.

Because your so experienced. (massive sarcasm)

@ to whoever said that my apparently worthless question asking is scummy,

I'll talk to you later. They may seem useless now, but as I said, I'll talk to you later.

I'm lookin forward to this.

The only thing I don't like from EB's post, is this:

Nikanor was the first person on the list that hadn't yet posted (and the first one period) and I didn't see any other appealing wagon. So it was a little arbitrary (in selection) and a lot policy (as to why).

Calling his Nik vote a policy vote based upon him not having posted yet, while the game started the same day as his vote was made.

I also don't trust policy lynches.

Now. QFT[/area]


Through page 4:

No, I never self-voted period before. I randomly felt like it. As for the reason, I wanted to make discussion. It worked, didn't it?

Well, we have discussion now. But most of it isn't caused by your selfvote or wagon. It barely brings any discussion and a selfvote is most of the time a distraction.

Good point

As for the head desk, do you disagree that when somebody points out something he sees as a possible lead, but doesn't persue it, deserves a head desk or something like that or not?

Who cares..ugh, fluff questions ftl

It's also giving me a tunneling vibe. She's practically disregarded all other players during that exchange.

Not liking this. There's barely any discussion besides the arguments between Scien and Farside. Heck, even you (ODDin) mentioned one thing besides this discussion.

My point exactly.

The head desk was actually because of YJ and Maemuki exchange. It made me want to cry. Also note I'm very sarcastic person and it's just my nature to be sarcastic.

Ahh i did think it was sarcastic humor.

Not having evidence cost the game. I don't want that to happen again. Do either of you feel that's a scum tell?

lol what a garbage question. Yeahhh its a huge scum tell that you want activity and evidence (massive sarcasm for those who can't read between the lines )

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Mmmmm yes, no, maybe? Not necessarily. Sometimes a vote is to gage a response.

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Is this really all you have to add so far?

Word.

Not liking this. There's barely any discussion besides the arguments between Scien and Farside. Heck, even you (ODDin) mentioned one thing besides this discussion.

That's why I said "tunneling vibe". It's not strictly tunneling at this point, due to the lack of much else to talk about.

Also, I don't think my quote of farside is twisting her words. All I said is what I felt when I read that (yes, I felt that even though knew it technically came as a reply to a question on the subject). That's what I felt, so I wanted to let the town know I feel that. I'm not saying I'm certain this is the case, but people need to be aware that that post by farside might have had an ulterior motive, so to speak.

Backtrackin scum.

Is this really all you have to add so far?

It's a valid question.

It, as in the question asked to you, or as in your last post...cause your post seemed more of a comment or statement rather than a question.

If you're referring to farsides question, than I think we've found our first VT.

Why does it seem that everybody is justifying everything with, "It doesn't matter since you were nowhere close to lynch"? A vote is a signifier of intent to lynch.

Are you saying we shouldn't vote at all until we're positive who is scum? What's your opinion on the use of a vote for pressure?

What's your take on Nikanor? Farside? Scien?

I see you posted several times elsewhere yesterday. Why not here?

Here some more inquisitive crap from EB...he trying to look good...rattle off a buncha questions etc.

Am I the only one noticing Oddin pointing out my flaws and reaction but neglecting to mention scien at all and his reactions to being called out?
Or the fact that Oddi pointed to an explaination and seems to twist it into something insubstantial that is pure conjection and not fact based?

Nope, I noticed too.

First of all, hello there Benmage. Please DON'T post before you read your role PM. It can give you an advantage if you're scum (I did it myself without realising the consequences not too long ago).

?? dont i want an advantage if i end up being scum...?

Shoot: Benmage

[Nachomamma8]

Done. Finally, finally done.

Scum predictions (Going to explain tommorrow after some iso(s)):

Mafia: EB & Farside

Wolf: Nik

Inbetween: Benmage

Town: Saint Kerrigan

EB is strongest mafia read, but is not that far behind farside. Fairly confident in that team.

Wolf is obviously between Nik and Benmage, but Benmage is giving me a damn strong town read.

SK (as well as her numerous predessesors) give me a good town read, but she is a mayhap mafia. Highly doubt it though.

With the next post comes an explanation for all of that, and most likely a hammer vote on farside.

[Nachomamma8]

Faside, I'll kill you

Try reversing the order of my suspect list

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/wcAkMEZKiPaT

Mason quicktopic.