Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[DTMaster]

I 'm confirmed iiin. Penguin. Also, while we wait.

Game specific Rule
1. Fire mafia cannot kill Ice Mafia, and vice versa. If they both target the same player, nothing happens.

This will be very important in this game.

LMAO! ~ CSLMod

[DTMaster]

Dude, my quote is very important when analyzing night actions.

It means if that if a doctor prevents a kill, we cannot use the doctor to clear the person from being X mafia or Y mafia

.

Aka, from that rule: Cross kills cannot happen.

Hence why that note from CSL is very important. But at the same time if a mafia fails to kill someone, it is just as likely that person is the opposing mafia.

It means mafia

can only be lynched

. If you fail to see the significance of that role note in the further days then you fail to catch mafia.

[DTMaster]

Votecount 1.1 (As of Post 35)

DTMaster -2- kmd4390, SaintKerrigan

Not voting: Everyone else

xofelf and Nicodemus each have 36 hours left before I search for a replacement

---

Vote DTMaster

Not a joke vote.

Also KMD and Sarah are on a team together. Why? Sarah voted after KMD but KMD posted the vote count noting that Sarah voted for me. Time stamps

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: 25 for KMD.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:14 pm Post subject: 31 for Sarah.

Can we kill these two? K.

Vote KMD

.

[DTMaster]

Page 1:

No one voted lol.

[DTMaster]

Oh. Wait. Fail logic! Forgot CSL posts the vote count at the top, I'm not used to it since I play games with mods who post the vote count in their own post.

Never mind.

Unvote

.

But, I rather

Animorph

For claiming penguin. He is Obv Ice Mafia lolololol!

[DTMaster]

Er.

Vote Animorph

[DTMaster]

It's my preference to unvote, so NYA!

[DTMaster]

Or what ever crashes into the boat. I dubbed your boat to be called the Titanic. I am the Iceberg to tip it over.

[DTMaster]

@Farside
It's more effective it there is 1 mafia group. A doctor can work like a reverse cop when there hasn't been a kill. That said, there are flaws in it. It's understandable.

@TQO
Just because the doctor isn't told who he protected, we can infer based on the results that gets announced.

Note in the PMs on the first page of Night Freeze and Night Burn. You can figure out what happens from that.

@KMD
1. If both scum hit the same target, nothing happens according to that quote. So there is more then one explanation for why there could be a failed kill. Its more beneficial for scum to try and get that person lynched since it could be the opposing scum faction.

@Sarah
That's quite a false leap of logic here. How can farside speculate the setup when

this is an open game

. It's more accurate to say: farside is speculating on how to analyze the night actions once it occurs.

You should also be attacking KMD and me for running with it and starting this conversation.

Your one liners are far less helpful then trying to figure out scum based on night results.

@Town
While we are on that topic, we should move on to other topics. This night action speculation has a high chance of derailment, so for your own personal notes it's best to note your ideas privately.

[DTMaster]

Sarah Kerrigan :p

[DTMaster]

@Slaxx

Given that you read the game mechanics discussion, you still have nothing to comment on? I would have expected better analysis since we jumped right into discussion out of the gate.

@Gheb

Doubt it. Keep in mind that each mafia faction does not only have the town as their enemy but also the opposing mafia party as well. An intentional misshot would be a pretty stupid thing to do in such a scenario especially since the WIFOM doesn't tip things in only one mafia party's favour but both of them in this case. By doing that one mafia party would also help the other mafia faction. Don't think they'd do that.

Actually, this is more beneficial for town because scum cannot cross kill each other. If one mafia group outs themselves to the other, then it will be apparent for the town if this happens.

[DTMaster]

@CSL GOD
Awesome we have 2 V/LAs now D:

@Scum
Ok we have scum.

Animorph, mavsfan41. Can we lynch either people? I'd much prefer a masvfan41 vote because he did not do anything

after he posted when CSL had a week deadline

.

Let's pile drive this onto mavsfan. Even a newb player (look at his join date) would try and participate in discussion, scum does everything to circumvent it because it reduces town from scum hunting. Lets gogogogo bandwagon onto this puppy.

@Gheb
You are a hypocrite. You are mostlikely scum with one of Animorph and mavsfan because you are not attacking them. You are scummy.

Why? You draw red flags on Animorph and mavsfan for not contributing and for

I'm suspicious of people who didn't take part in discussion earlier and now complain about having reads on nobody - I don't quite buy it.

Instead you attack Slaxx for RVS and trying to start a bandwagon.

Bandwagons are useful tools to generate discussion on day one. You look at people's responses to them and yours is the typical newb argument that bandwagons are bad

. They aren't they are tools of the trade. You failed to attack your scum targets. You are scummy for doing so. It looks like fake busing.

@Farside
Ok we have the scum team here:

Farside/Gheb/Animorph/mavsen.

You seriously think:

"I have no reads" is less scummy and more productive then: "I vote Pom just cause?"

This was day 1 before CSL GOD reigned his wrath on us. That play is typical to day 1 play before the week deadline.

@Pom
I first read Sarah instead of Saint. I don't know her in real life BUT her avater is of Sarah Kerrigan.

@Self
I've been playing with DGB lately, sue me. Animorph said the same thing as Mav, but Mav's was worse on the scummeter because he said the "no reads line" AFTER CSL declared his deadline. That is beyond fail.

Unvote

Vote: mavsfan41

[DTMaster]

ITT: Pom's questions are:

I appear to be helping the town, but a lot of the questions don't contribute to actual scum hunting. It's very subtle derailment. Self note to keep an eye on Pom.

[DTMaster]

@Farside

1.Slaxx just corrected his RVS vote. If you do a quick Iso read, he's responding to the lack of update on his vote or miscount on his vote. In terms of both players I'll break it down into 3 components, content, actions, and general posts.

Content and posts are agreeable to be the same, but Slaxx is actually doing something by voting. I might agree, like you that it could have been a better vote but Mav and Ani aren't providing anything.

This to me is scummier then Slaxx. A RVS is better then thin air when we have a week deadline for day 1, especially when you posted 2 hours after CSL's post, rather then Slaxx's 6 minutes.

2. Scratch that you are scum. Only scum would care about lynching specific factions. Seriously, we have 2 teams of 2 which equals two 4 scum players that we have to lynch. How does it not make sense to list off your top 4 suspects? I don't know what factions these 4 players are in together, if they are scum they are just scum.

If you have to justify whether or not they are "fire" or "ice" now that's just silly.

Unvote. Vote farside22

.

[DTMaster]

@Pome
What is more scummier: RVS vote? Or nothing?

[DTMaster]

Votecount 1.5 (As of Post 125)

mavsfan -3- kmd4390, DTMaster, TheLonging
Slaxx -3- Pomegranate, farside22, Gheb
Pomegranate -1- Slaxx
xofelf -1- The Quintastic One

Not voting: Everyone else

Deadline is 2/8/10 at 8:00pm EST

If I am missing anyone's vote, please tell me

---

EBWOP: I should say: by essentially posting: "I have nothing"

[DTMaster]

@Pom
Seriously? And Mav and Animorph did more then Slaxx? Show me please k thanks using only page 1-5 (and the start of page 6).

You say that RVS is better then posting nothing. But this is what I see with the lack of Mav and Ani posting, and Slaxx is still scummier then them despite you saying:

In general it's better to have RVS.

In this game there was a lot of setup speculation, which kind of took the place of RVS, so I found RVS votes unnecessary and slightly scummy. In addition to the lack of content, the fact that Slaxx hasn't done anything (I know that there are others), he earned my vote.

@Farside
1. It helps when you have top scum suspects. Does it matter the order of the lynch? No. Does it matter if I group them into teams? No. If they are scummy, and I put forward a list of suspects it means they all should get the noose at that moment.

You are deflecting from the point of

me putting forward a scum list of my top 4 scum in the broad definition of scum

. Ice and Fire scum = just scum to me because they cannot cross kill. In the town's POV, both scum act pretty much like 2 linked scum groups that don't know each other (the twist is that they want to kill each other but they can't do it from cross kills). Hence, the giant umbrella name of scum.

Also, this is very awesome now.

Unvote

Vote: Mavs

[/sup]

[DTMaster]

@Pom
Even with Slaxx's recent post?

@Gheb
Let me repeat my self.

The diffrence between Xoxelf and Ani versus Mav is

MAV POSTED AFTER CSL GOD POSTED THE DEADLINE

. I have yet to check Ani's or Xoxelf's posts to see if they are posting else where, but with the current information:

MAV SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE DEADLINE IS IN A WEEK

. If Ani or Xoxelf posted after CSL's announcement they deserve the same treatment.

Hence why it is my prefrence to run Mav up the wagon because

HE HAS NO EXCUSE TO NOT SCUM HUNT

. If Ani and Xoxelf aren't posting in other games, it means that they are legitly not on this website.

I caps the important part so you wouldn't miss it, again. My issue is with the timing of the posts. Xoxelf and Ani's are very useless, but Mav posted 2 hours after CSL's 1 week deadline announcement.

He knew at the time of that post that our time to scum hunt is drastically reduced and contributed nothing

.


@Farside
Yes, you are correct.

@CSL

Can you prod Morph, Xoxelf and Mav, given that our deadline is so short

[DTMaster]

@CSL GOD
Thank you god!

@Mavs
The search is down but the recent posts I found using the google search was in this game.

@Ani
Same thing but he also posted in other games while his last game post. The rest has been modding.

This may or may not be important.

[DTMaster]

ER nvm on the Ani

[DTMaster]

@Gayle
1. I'm not

advocating a straight up lurker

lynch. I'm advocating a: A guy who posted nothing after he knows that the deadline was going to end in a week.

My issue was: Mavs at the time knew that the deadline was approaching yet posted nothing at all

. That goes beyond anti-town lurkering: That's just scummy to kill discussion like that when he knew this was happening before the extension.

Killing discussion @ Day 1 @ 1 Week left is bad.

2. You ignore the specifics of my case. We aren't advocating a lurker lynch, other wise Xolelf would be on the other block as well. Read my case. You ignored it you said it's just essentially a kill a lurker case. I outlined why a mav lynch was more preferable to a Xolelf lynch even though they both equally lurked.

3. Also your speculation is very very lacking and extremely scummy.

It reads as: I am scum who is defending the lurker but I'm not committed to defending him. If it came down to it Mavs could be scum or town

. Like seriously read below:

4. Actually. Dude.

Of course? What? When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

a. Lynching is always a gamble. Can we lynch Gayle instead for this scummy scummy post? You are being too wishy washy with this speculation. You say that Mavs could be town or scum: (oh mai his content is so littler therefore we can't get a town read, but I don't see enough to say he's not scum)

b. You are trying to break up a wagon on a suspicious guy. A bandwagon on day one is a useful pressure tool

to fricken gain those reads that you say we don't have enough on

on a guy who we don't have readss

You do absolutely nothing to fix this problem

.

c. Lastly you don't even attack me, the guy who started this case. You don't even attack KMD, the guy who agreed that Mav's wagon was more legitmate then Xolelfs, who everyone seems to compare to.

Again, break my attack down before you generalize this wagon as a bad one.

@Farside
In the words of DGB: It could also be Gayle looking for town cred. If Mav/Sahn flips scum Gayle is very likely to be scum here. However given that Sahn's posting do you think Mav/Sahn is a good lynch?

@ANI
You sir failed to read my attack. I outlined why I wanted a Mavs lynch over Xolelf k thanks bye.

@San
1. I voted SK and KMD because I thought SK voted after KMD but KMD predicted the vote. Then I posted: Whoops forgot CSL posts the vote count at top so that makes no sense, my attack is nothing.. So I RVS Ani. Then i switched to Mavs and started the push to lynch him. I can quote my voting history if you fail to see this.

2. Actually your point on TQH is pretty good. I would like to have this avenue investigated now.

Unvote

Vote: TQH

[DTMaster]

@Gayle/Farside

Issue 1: We have no read on Mav/San
Issue 2: Mav's post is antitown multipled by 10 due to the context of the post.
Issue 3: Neither of you are helping this situation. I decree that both players die because they are arguing over an issue:

but neither players seem to resolve it in any manner

Issue 4: Neither of them addressed Sanh's post.

[DTMaster]

@Gayle
1. The issue was: "Mavs posted: "I had nothing" "

i know i havent posted much of anything other than my confirmation to this game. i dont have a read on anyone, so for me to post who i think is scum and who i think is town is not productive for the town at all. there is no one who looks extremely suspicious that i would be okay with lynching. i dont have any reads yet. i have nothing to offer at the moment.

Like seriously: His only post after CSL's announcement was ^^^^^^^^.

I explained how this was much more scummier then Ani or Xol at the time. I want to point out how: even with timing: even with content.

Mavs had plenty of pages to contribute but had nothing to say about it. The deadline issue is extremely important because Ani and Xol could have been given a few days the answer, and then the pressure the lurkers to talk request prod, request replacements could occur.

Mavs posted after the deadline announcement and rather then

posting oh deadline, I don't have reads so I will ask questions, blah blah blah I'll just say i have nothing

That is beyond any pro-town action, and with the timing it's especially important because Mav had information that Ani and Xolelf didn't have the time.

Explain to me how this doesn't warrant a bandwagon pressure: talk.

2. If CSL didn't extend the deadline: what would you have done? Hmm?

If we had one week. CSL said he wouldn't extend it. But then out of his own violation, he retracted this. Given that it was publicly announced that the deadline was set in stone, would you still attack farside for this case?

I was the one who convinced farside to change from a Slaxx vote to a Mavs vote. I was the one who began the shift for this wagon, but yet I don't see any attacks done to me because of it?

3. CSL just replaced Mavs just yesteday. he announced after the wagon got rolling. Get the time line straight. I did not know Mavs was being force replaced at the time of the case. We also had less then 1 week to find a replacement before CSL extended the deadline.

Think about it

If CSL didn't do the extension, the deadline would be in 2 days

We did not have time to wait for a replacement and twiddle our thumbs. We do now.

4. Lol. You

only now call me scum after I call you out on not calling me scum

Why is it that your argument against farside, which is perfectly applicable to me only

now being addressed by you

to call me scum?

5. Since you are posting to graciously wait and let the replacement read

why am I the only one so far who has read and commented on what Sanhs, the replacement to Mav?

Issue 1: You brought up. You did nothing. You didn't even comment on how Sanh's post is more townie then Mav.

Issue 2: I my argument, why Mav's posts is justifiably more anti-town then then Xolelf or Ani.

Issue 3: Then why are you being so bent over backwards wishy washy about the Mavs issue, especially when we have a replacement. You aren't even using Sanhs, the

replacement to Mavs

on how Savn's is demonstrating that the Mavs/Sahn's wagon isn't a viable lynch.

Esentially: your case on farside is.

Farside is twisting your words. She said you called Mav's town. You are defending Mavs and saying that the wagon is poor. You say you have no read, but farside is scum for twisting your words. You say you don't know if Mav's is scum but you think farside is scum for attacking your attack on her push on Mav.

You are bending over backwards over a guy who you don't think is town by attacking farside who is pushing for the lynch? The eff?

^^ This leap in logic is horrible! This isn't town scum hunting, you are implying that:

Mav/Sanh is town but at the same time could be lynched because there is the chance that the player is scum. You say its a gamble, and you complain about the lack of posts.

But you just said that you had nothing to comment on the guy who you have issues with because of said lack of posts, after the replacement just posted

Unvote

Vote: Gayle

Lynch now.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP:

Lol the longing posted while I was writing: So technically, I'm not the only one to comment on the most recent posts?

[DTMaster]

TL;DR

@Gayle

1. You only now called me scum after I called me out on it lol. That looks so horrible on your count. Especially this is the first time you are calling me scummy.

2. Your case depends on that Mav/Sanhs is town and farside/me are twisting your words to cause a lynch. Ideally this would be a mislynch. However you do not ever call Mav/Sanhs scum/town you just say they could be either or. This is extremely wishy washy and makes you look scummy for coasting through this issue. How so? You don't comment on Sanhs to show how farside/my case was wrong.

3. My case stemed from what Mavs posted, not what mav's didn't post.

[DTMaster]

I should add that:

While Gayle takes a neutral stance on Mav/Sanhs, he is bending over backwards over this case to defend him against the original wagon. This is extremely suspicious.

[DTMaster]

On my iPhone

@Gayle

1. Um the case against Mavs was: he was the most scummiest player at the time of the wagon. We went ove this when we compaired xolelf, ani and slaxx. Tell ke again how the vote, wagon, L1 wasn't a viae option when he was the most scummiest.

Tell us how the others warrented the vote or how farside/DTM did during the time of the vote. You are essentially defending Mavs/Sanh when you call out our case for being faulty? Why? At no time do you eer speculate that Farside, DTM, and Mavs could be generating a budding manuver. All you do provide to the table is: farside and dtm are scum for pushing a case on a guy who posted little, but has been defined as antitown/scummy ( or scummier then the others)

[DTMaster]

Err me, viable, etc.

2. Time line. We had less then 1 week. Consider the didn't have time for a guranteed replacement. Consider that he timeline of day 1 is cut in half.

How is this significant? When you look at other games, you are a lot more free to wait for replacements. When I made my case I was doing it when Mav posted. Then he was gone. We did not have the luxury of waiting for a replacement. Mavs case was pending from the time that he posted, not because of the acutal wait.

If you read back to where I first voted him, I compared how his post was wosrse hen anis and xotelfs. If Mav was an exclusive lurked hunting, I would have attacked ani and xolelf more strongly, being more apethetic for either those three. No, I specfically single out Mav.

To be continued since I need a computer to finish off my posts lol with less typos

[DTMaster]

I'll tell you my reason again. Mav knew the deadline was approaching. He posting nothing to contribte to the game. He is a good lynch canadidate. Sanh replaced in that's good. CSL gave us time to post now. Awesome.

Mav/Sanhs posted alright. I like that post. I moved away. I waned to investigate TQO because Sanh posted good points about it. Does it look like I didnt get convinced that Sanh posted a good idea? No. I moved on because the wagon pressured the person and he replied back with a good response. Seriously, Mav isn't, wasn't, quick lynched. You make it sound like he would have.

You are seriously over exausberating the Mav cas making it look like a quick lynch was being engineered by me/farside.

[DTMaster]

@Gayle
1.I think you need to re-evaluate the case by answering this question:

Why would Farside/DTM-scum push so hard on a Mavs lynch in a near deadline situation? Then evaluate: What would you have done in a near deadline situation in terms of lynching? Finally: If you find that you resolve on the same conclusion that I did, could a townie push for a lynch like that in the near deadline situation that CSL imposed?

The deadline extension and replacement announcement happened

well after the wagon was rolling already

You are implying that we should have known before the whole L-2 situation that CSL was going to graciously grant us an extension when he said:

I am satisfied with what happened between 10pm and now! Keep up the posting, because what you do now decides how long the deadline WOULD be on Day 2 if you guys deserve one.

I'm quoting the mod to prove that context is especially important in this game. You are ignoring context. Why? Pom summerized this quite nicely.


@Gheb
1. He critzes but doesn't actually give the town alternatives in what he would have done. It's more like a point and say: OMG X IS SCUMMY because HE ATTACKED Y for Z ARGUMENT WHICH IS WEAK. Gayle doesn't address Z argument in the context of my posts, which is still being spammed down by the whole:

YOU DIDN"T HAVE ENOUGH INFO FOR Z SO YOU CAN'T CALL HIM SCUM, BUT HE COULD BE.

@TheLonging
1. Um. Bandwagon = tools of the trade. Also I was the first to attack Mavs and clarified why the opposing wagon wasn't necessary. Where do you see my wagon?

@Ani
ITT Ani is coasting. If Ani flips scum: Mavs/Sanh is most likely not part of the same faction as him.

[DTMaster]

Posting to say that I'm V/LA till Thursday. Midterms and all.

[DTMaster]

Sorry, forgot that this game started! D:"

K, my comments.

@Xofelf

does anyone find it at all suspicious that Gayle and farside were having comments back and forth and now farside is dead? or is that just me?

and why would you say i'm fire scum, kmd? what basis do you have for that, if i may ask.

Best saved for personal notes. The alternative explanation is Gayle was set up.

i never said that made Gayle suspicious. more of i was thinking that whoever did it WANTED to make her look so. i guess i should have said odd. i wasn't saying she did anything. just intrigued by the fact that she was defending ani and he flipped scum, and then farside dies during the night. i'm thinking somebody wants to make her look scummy. Cuz all i get from her are town vibes.
it was more something to think about than anything else.

There is a sense of self admission here? Hmm?

@Longing
Um do you realize that I've been tunnel heavy on the Mavs/Gayle issue. Like when did I go about and wagon on other people (aside from Ani). I was quite clear on my specific targets. You are bending backwards in your explanation.

Also I'm sure Ani didn't have a strong voting history. I'm going to do a quick iso read.


@Town
Hold on. Do people realize that KMD wagon-ed onto fire scum? Unless this is some serious busing, you should be arguing the ice-scum argument right now based on our current flips.

[DTMaster]

OK I did a post search and the only vote that Ani did was on Farside. When did Ani bandwagon again?

[DTMaster]

If it helps. Ani is very pro Slaxx and pro Gayle

[DTMaster]

@Gheb
Waiting. This isn't a time to beat around the bush right now.

[DTMaster]

Unvote Vote Pomegranate

Helf pressure vote but also having a bad feeling about her. Will elaborate later.

Vote: Gheb

Now is not the time to do this.

+ points for stalling, and + points for withholding arguments with CSL level deadlines. This guy is stalling scum, kill him now.

[DTMaster]

Hold on. You went from Ani -> Gayle -> KMD?

[DTMaster]

@Jacob
Then you are willing to go for either KMD or Gayle lynches today then? Hmmz?

And the "gut" vote is fine, but what do you think about CSL's post that virtually cleared Farside and Gayle?

What part of that is not Scummy, using the Mod to protect one of his scum-buddy?

That was my reason for voting KMD, as for Gayle, I went on gut feeling, in hope of drawing infomation, which it did.

Especially since farside flipped town, which means that you are arguing that Gayle and KMD are scum buddies together.


@Gheb
1. Your life is important, but this is a near deadline time. This is not the time to post with a "wait for my explainations" post. Tensions are high up on the

2. Hold up.

SOMEONE CLAIMED DOCTOR?!

I must reread this now because I have no recollection on who claimed doctor.

FYI: If I don't find a claimed doctor (which I assume you are talking about KMD based on the vote count), that means you a skipping over the longing, Gayle, Jacob

@Gayle
FYI. You sir are scummy. Your recent two posts read as scum jumping on random wagons. It oozes it. Especially when you called Jacob scum via here:

For suggesting CSL has cleared Gayle

Unvote, Vote:KMD

scum right here

which defends KMD, Then jumps KMD via here:

[Pom is scummy]

You can call this meta, but from my experience Pom isn't doing anything out of the ordinary for Pom. Further, Pom is a good girl and you should feel ashamed of calling her filthy scum. You are a bad person and I hope you feel bad.

Also rereading is a pain in the ass -_-

I deny any responsibility for this.

Actually, seeing who he replaced, I already knew that.

Wanna lynch him? (Oh, you're already voting him. Heh)

Unvote, Vote Jacob Wagon GOGOGO

Sadly, every time you post you stick out as obvious scum.

Vote: Kmd4390

as for Gayle, I went on gut feeling, in hope of drawing infomation, which it did.

What information did you gain, exactly? Or are you just following kmd's example of ridiculous votes?

Can we kill the Gayle now. For serious. Like seriously this is beyond bandwagon here. Your weak attack on Jacob is heavily noted.

Unvote

Vote: Gayle

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: Tensions are high up right now. Like seriously deadline is in 2 days. Now its not the time to post that. You your ATE fails sir because you didn't even mention about work/life/personal reasons during the time of your intital vote on Pom.

It reads as a cheap afterthought.

[DTMaster]

GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS. KILL GHEB

There were also zero contributions on her part all of D2 except for pounding a 3rd vote on the

claimed doctor

and still continuing to sit there.

The "Editing is Broken" votecount

kmd4390 (L-2) TheLonging, Gayle, Pomegranate

TheLonging (L-4) kmd4390
Pomegranate (L-4) Gheb

Not voting (3) JacobSavage, Xofelf, DTMaster

With

8

alive,

5

will snap someone's neck. Currently,

kmd4390

would be lynched at the deadline below

Deadline is Sunday, February 21st, 2010, at 8:00pm EST.

(You have a little over 4 days left)

Look at how he approves of TheLonging and Gayle. Oh mai.

Unvote

Vote: Gheb

[DTMaster]

Gayle. Because you aren't actively scum hunting Jacob. Your recent attacks on Jacob are:

For suggesting CSL has cleared Gayle

Unvote, Vote:KMD

scum right here

I attacked JacobSavage because of his vote. Instead of responding, he made another vote without reason, so I called him scum. kmd then make a ridiculously scummy vote towards Jacob, and so I switched my vote back.

Explain to me why I'm scummy. Not just concerning this incident either, but lay out your entire case against me.

You don't explain anything. You just pressure vote, drop it, move on. Only now did you explain something of essence to your Jacob case.

I dislike your apporach to either cases, both KMD and Jacob. Your argument is just based on votes, and you skim over everyone else on the KMD wagon and/or the Jacob wagon. This is tunneling beyond anything.

FYI: You are failing to note that it's just as likely that KMD and Jacob are opposing scum factions. Everything that you type out implies a KMD vs Jacob debate rather then anything.

@GHEB

EXPLAIN THIS. HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ROLE INFORMATION NOW.

[DTMaster]

Must I again?

@Case on Gayle
1. In the three pronged attack on Farside/DTM vs Gayle: Gayle only chose to attack me once I drew attention to the whole Mav's issue. While Gayle tunneled heavily on farside, he ignored the DTM equation: which was DTM started the wagon.

I can pull quotes again for this if you would like.

2. In the context of Mav's replacement, Gayle came in and then critiszed us when

CSL announced after he found a replacement and after he decide to granted the extention

When the mav's wagon began rolling, CSL announced that we had a deadline of under a week due to a day of inactivity. Hence my criteria on why Mavs' lynch was much more acceptable then anis/slaxxs/xolef. Reread my case before.

3. The main offensiveness of your case revolves around the fact that farside/DTM are the ones who are attacking you and your lack of stance. The latter is extremely scummier because you refused to take a stance on Mavs/Sand and even after Sand posted: you had nothing to comment. The nothing to comment part bugs me because you addressed that Mav's lack of posts were an issue but his replacement's posts were not worth addressing over.

Hence, tunneling mister.

4. Must I remind you that the ani wagon lynched scum? What's the issue with KMD again?

5. Part of Gheb's case revolves around you actually (see below) which revolves whether or not he can prove to me if KMD claims doctor.


@Gheb
1. He called KMD doctor when he wasn't even claimed. He attacks Pom for attacking KMD for being the said claimed doctor.

a. Unless I am blind, I reread KMD and he did not claim doctor.
b. If KMD claimed doctor, then Gheb forgot to attack, Gayle, Jacob, and Longing (i'm more lenient for Jacob because he posted after Gheb but still, for serious?).

How is this a slip?

If Gheb/KMD are scum together it reads as gambit slip. But this also works if Gheb just is scum however:

a. He is looking for the PRs. The doctor slip means he's actively looking for crumbs, etc. Scum is only interested in that and finding other scum. The townies they dislike they can kill at night.

How is that different from town analysis? Town analysis involves hunting for scum through slips, etc, etc. Breadcryumbs are not a priority and are only analyzed during claims and after NKs have flipped PRs. Then you draw links (ie say who the doctor protected, who the cop investigated, etc).

Now can we go and analyze GHEB for once.

[DTMaster]

Also

Gayle: If you know that KMD claimed doctor and Gheb's post is legitimate: Why is KMD the "claimed doctor" a lynchworthy target. I'm rereading but I don't see how KMD is the doctor thanks for your information.

[DTMaster]

Actually found it:

Ok, you know what, guys? I'm gonna end up claiming today with all of the suspicion around me, so might as well do it now instead of stalling and waiting for votes. I'm the doc. Targeted DT last night.

That makes sense now, but wait:

why is the leading wagon on the doctor?. He's not even counter claimed.

That means: Gheb has dropped down a few rungs for me, and Jacob has rose a few more. KMD's status is left to open for tomorrow. We are not lynching claimed PRs when you can verify them else where.

Unvote

Vote: Jacob

Because of this I'm going to reread right now to determine how the wagon was maintained during the claiming stage.

[DTMaster]

I also forgot to add Gayle: Animorph was pro-Gayle and anti-Farside.

[DTMaster]

I'm going to repeat:

If we analyze Ani's posts a few things become clear.

a. He was passive about Mav's lynch/ who flipped town.
b. He was very anti-Farside and pro-Gayle
c. What bugs me is he was pro-Slaxx (reread the list and he died)

Things I note that have holes in them

@In Gheb's analysis: Pom voted KMD

before the claim

and he criticizes her for it. Interesting

@In KMD's claim: you (Gayle) don't want a counter claim and but you want to lynch KMD. Ok how about this, we use tonight to analyze KMD? You are leaving a no strings attach to lynch KMD and if he flips doctor you are leaving away with the justification that he's guilt free. However, I have a gut feeling now that Gayle is townie because of the underlying implications.

But this is not a time to lynch KMD when you can do other things to confirm his role that doesn't involve today's lynch of KMD

It'll be more beneficial to lynch else where.

[DTMaster]

Actually Longing, I failed on the Slaxx part since I just reread and he's dead.

[DTMaster]

Forgot to answer. I see it now after a better reread. Case is dismissed. Now that CSL god is giving us more time, the nature is:

Xolelf's/Pomes current play is extremely dangerous to the town if either players are town given CSL's deranged deadlines. It might be better to request replacement due to it.

[DTMaster]

@Ice Scum
You caught fire scum considering that fire scum killed someone.

@Night Actions
Now if we analyze the night actions we have:

KMD doc protected DTM n1.
Ice scum killed farside n1 and now attempted to kill fire scum n2.
Fire scum killed Slaxx n1 and Gayle n2.

Confirmed Firescum is Ani who was Pro-Gayle and Pro-Slaxx.

Time to do rereads but gut tells me Pom/FarsideII might be the last fire scum given Ice's NK on farside.

[DTMaster]

ISO rereads lose some meaning without context so I'm going to a journal like analysis while I pick apart things.

@Pom/FarsideII

1. Pom's questions in retrospect are not very good. We have a case of anti-town lurkers being more scummier then the actual scum. How so? If you consider the questions that Pom asked:

Some questions, to spark some discussion:

The Longing, do you like being scum or town better? (Bonus: Why?)

xofelf, what's the most enjoyable power role you ever played? (Bonus: Why?)

Kmd, what do you like better, RVS or RQS? (Bonus: Why?)

Gheb, what do you think of the site in general? Do you like our approach to scumhunting? (Bonus: You guessed it, why?)

farside22, what's your favorite Open setup that is being run? (Bonus: Does it have any interesting mechanics?)

mavsfan, Where does your username come from? (Bonus: What other games are you currently playing in?)

Ani, what's your favorite game that you have played? (Bonus; What was your role? Bonus 2X: Do you think you played well?)

TQO, I can't think of a question for you. Think of a question to ask me. (Bonus: Include a bonus.)

Slaxx, Why don't you know what a pomegranate looks like? (Bonus: Have you ever heard of Google Image?)

DTMaster, Why do you refer to SaintKerrigan as Sarah? (Bonus: Do you know him/her IRL?)

SaintKerrigan, have you ever self-voted? (Bonus: If so, why?)

These are all trivia questions. Pom argues that any discussion, even bad discussion will lead to eventual scum hunting. However the above questions involve more distraction then sparking any scum hunting.

If you look at SaintKerrigan/Gayle , KMD, and Gheb, these questions are quite biased against them. They involve lots of theory questions which directs the attention on to them. The others are trivia questions.

With the 4 lurkers at the time, Slaxx's post summarizes it well. We got too complacent.

2. Pom joined in on the Slaxx wagon via Gheb/Farside. Interesting how it's not OMGUS but she rehashes Gheb's argument for nothing.

3. Pom unvotes after Gheb unvotes, wagon on Slaxx loses steam.

4. Pom joins the Mavs wagon, not the Ani wagon.

Pom, questions are ok depending on how it's done. Specifically RVS vs RQS, I don't use either. I very rarely random vote. I look for something scummy, no matter how small, and attack it. Then I take that player's actions and everyone else's reaction to it and formulate an opinion on everyone else as well.

But I recall in that game where we were scum together with KScope (Mini 844, was it?), you voted me based on something small, and bussed me until it brought about you lynch (and me being NKed). Though that is the only meta I have of you, it doesn't put you tactic in good light.

--

I am putting Mavs at L-1. Don't say you didn't know.

Vote: Mavsfan

.

BLAH BLAH ARGUMENT on page 11 --- On second thought, Vote: Gayle.

@Longing
1. Joined the mavs wagon via me, repeating what I put out.
2. This bugs me since this screams:

also

Unvote: Sanhora

You're contributing a lot more than mavs, so I'm going to unvote

Townie. However DGB's postulate makes reconsider.


@Jacob/TQO
1 .Actually I thought of something horrible in response to reading post 89 Mafia make up half the town. Given that they cannot night kill each other, they could agree to a tie and just force the game into deadline lynches, killing the rest of the townies.

2. He really, really likes fueling wagons here.

Right, just been catching up on the past fourteen pages of discussion, and am drawn to Farside becasue pushing home the point of Gayle as "scum", so

<b>Unvote</b>
<b>Vote: Farside 22</b>

But he did do things right.

Unvote, Vote:Fareside 22

@CSL: You must of mist it in your last vote count, meh shit happens.

Actually that would be a bit pointless, as Animorpherve is going to be lynched any way, might as well change my vote and make it sooner rather than later:

Unvote:
Vote Animorpherv1

I'm getting VI waves coming from this direction.

Unvote

Vote: Farside

Hope that works XD

@xofelf
Makes me cry. Considering he/she's been given a free pass all game I have no read other then: "I'm busy sorry"

okay... i don't really have anything on anyone... no one stands out negatively to me.. then again, today has been interesting so i wasn't entirely focusing here. i'll check through again when i get a chance tomorrow.. sorry bout that

Probably active lurking but I wish the search engine was up.

@Ani
In retrospect he was obviously fueling the Gayle/Farside debate and KMD called it.


Also to be continued

[DTMaster]

@Jacob
Hehe. We got ice scum here. Farside's bait took hold better then mine. However, something tells me we could have a

Gheb/Longing vs Jacob pairing here. Something about this wagon feels unnatural.

@Longing
Hold on a sec there, my scumdar is going off. Didn't you maintain your vote on KMD post-claim and now you are accusing Jacob of jumping on the wagon when you are guilty of the same thing?

I need to do a check but something tells me you are the one being opportunistic on the wagon here.

@Farside
Ice scum knows who fire scum is now. Even if ice scum is lynched, things are only good for the town if both players target the same townie.

It might be a smart play for fire scum to claim now and ally themselves with the town to hunt down the remaining ice scum. If at any time town is lynched, ice scum makes up half the town, fulfilling deadline lynches

[DTMaster]

actually.

Fire scum claim now. This will assist in finding ice scum.

[DTMaster]

@Farside
If elf was scum with Longing or Gheb, she would by now with either of them.

@Longing
Page 20. Die scum die. You comented on KMD

on the same day KMD claimed Doctor and posted on KMD after said claim

Don't you dare use lurking as an excuse for that.

You sir were still perpetuating that wagon, yet still critize Gayle for it.

Vote: The Longing

We have scum here.

[DTMaster]

@Longing
1 .He was not counter claimed. That's extremely good reason to

not lynch the doctor in this setup.

2. Part of your Jacob case involves his vote on KMD, post claim, as farside iriterates.

@Farside
1. I think you are saying that Longing was pushing Jacob for his Doc vote? not the Doc claim because KMD claimed doc.

2. I'm calling it now: If longing is Ice scum, Gheb

must be his partner

and

Jacob is mostlikely cleared newbie townie

as much as it pains me to type this.

[DTMaster]

Fire scum should counterclaim right now if Gheb isn't fire scum.

[DTMaster]

Unvote

Why?

If Gheb is fire scum: that means that Jacob must be Icescum

[DTMaster]

TL would be almost confirmed townie actually if Gheb is Fire, and Jacob is Ice.

The Xolelf lynch is easier then a Jacob/TL bus this late in the game. I don't believe Ice scum would do this. I do however think you might be ice scum here. It's funny but: in this game the scum are the cops.

[DTMaster]

Oh its 4 to lynch. Good point Farside Gheb needs to vote TL.

Vote: The longing

[DTMaster]

@Farside
No, Icescum wouldn't bus and put themselves into reverse PD

They would force mislynch

[DTMaster]

I had Farside2/Pom as fire scum lol. Your endgame play made no sense for Ice scum but what evers. Awesome directing.

If we didn't have so many modkills I would think Xolelf's death would have been generated earlier.

[DTMaster]

Haylen might beat Xolelf in the lazy scum and winner award

[DTMaster]

I guess me too? I'm in another one right now too so i'm going to get lots of fire/ice experience lol