Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[Gayle]

/Confirm

Now, SK can play Mass Effect 2 in peace.

I'm gonna read the thread to find a reason to vote Pom, BRB

[Gayle]

The players I like the least are farside, Slaxx, and TQO.

farside because of her argument over listing four scum.

TQO for his policy vote.

Slaxx because of this:

There was never an RVS to begin with. There were only 3 votes cast when I cast mine. One quarter of the players voting is not RVS. Sorry. Its not. So I started it up. And look where we are now.

Vote: Slaxx

Also, inactivity dies down sometimes. The deadline is ridiculous. My 2 cents.

[Gayle]

Sticking up for my homies in the 884. It was my favorite game of mafia so far. I don't think we did anything wrong.

But I've just replaced in, you've been here for the whole game. I could replace out instead if there is a problem.

[Gayle]

I find the people going on about those who claim there is little to go on the more suspect. The number of pages doesn't matter if there is little to go on in those pages. Also, the people advocating lynching the lurkers, particularly DTMaster.

About the doctor, there are 12 players, and 4 mafia, meaning 2 nightkills. The purpose of the doctor in this setup is simply to prevent as many kills as possible. The doctor's priority is not to find scum, but to insure the amount of townies does not decrease too quickly.

[Gayle]

I would like to replace mavsfan rather than risk a mislynch due to little information. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup.

[Gayle]

I don't necessary think he would be a mislynch, rather that with his grand total of 2 posts we have very little to determine if he is scum or not. It would basically just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town. Apparently he is going to be "force replaced" (far stronger than a normal replacement), and so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't wait to see what his replacement has to say.

[Gayle]

@Gayle

Doesn't the fact that he only posted 2 times up to now bother you? I can't think of any town-alligned reason to play that way, especially since it has been reported that he visited mafiascum a couple of times.

Well, I don't automatically assume he is playing that way intentionally. There are any number of reasons for a person to lurk. He could have two posts because he is scum. He could have two posts because he has no idea where to start with this game. It is risky to make assumptions and lynch him, when we can wait for the replacement and form an opinion with a stronger foundation.

[Gayle]

And of course nothing about the fact there is are votes on him and he is avoiding the game is looked upon as town why again? With comments about his post and lack there for.
He can and should be in here defending himself. Not lurking and avoiding a game. There is no town reason for that.

Of course?

What?

When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

Vote: Farside22

for pursuing this ridiculous lynch so strongly.

[Gayle]

Well, I am pretty sure about Farside, guys. Those were some pretty scummy posts right there.

Lets click the problems with your comments so far
1) talks about it as a mislynch

This is extremely disingenuous. I've said that it is a good chance that it would be a mislynch, and that there is no reason to risk such a lynch. I never said "Mavsfan is town. Lynching him is a mislynch.".

2) says maybe the person has nothing to talk about and doesn't know how to get into the game

Again, disingenuous. My point was that no one knows why Mavsfan isn't here.

3) calls it a lurker lynch

When your only reason for lynching someone is because they are lurking then, yes, it is a lurker lynch.

4) keeps avoiding the fact that mansv was see on MS and did not post in this game even to defend himself and you want to point to me as scum?

I point to you as scum because I cannot verify he actually did as you say and even if he

was

online, you have no idea why or what kind of reason he might have for not posting. Your reason for lynching him is pure speculation. Yet you push to lynch him rather than waiting for his replacement.

The amount of defense that Gayle is giving masvan leads me to believe they could be scum together.

Of course, I must be scum because I don't want town to lynch a person who not only is about to be replaced, but also doesn't have a single good reason for being lynched.

So far she hasn't said one town reason to avoid posting in the game and does a vote calling me pushing the case when clearly I'm pushing her for answers of this defense.

I don't have to list a town reason for lurking. He could be lurking for

any

reason. You prove that Mavsfan doesn't have a good reason not to be here. I'm not defending Mavsfan, I'm trying to tell town why it is a bad idea to lynch a person for lurking right now.

This seems to me gayle saying mansv is town stating odds but not expanding on why the odds of him being town are grater then scum.

There are 12 players. 4 are scum, 8 are town. That is roughly a 66% chance that any given player is town, and a 33% chance that any given player is to scum. So yes, there is a greater chance that Mavsfan is town. It is stupid to gamble on his lynch when our odds of lynching town are 2/3.

Also, you keep implying that I am calling Mavsfan town. I am not, and never have. Your insistence that I have is disingenuous to the point of being scummy. Disingenuous. I plan to continue overusing that word.


In every time. In every place.

The deeds of men are the same

Farside is scum. No exceptions. All aboard the bandwagon, guys.

[Gayle]

Hi! We prepared for your arrival by putting you at L-1. Is this satisfactory, yes/no?

[Gayle]

How many times you calling someone with 2 post that just got replaced town gayle?

How many times are you going to lie that I claimed such a thing?

I even posted your quote where you said most likely town. So you know this person's alignment and thoughts and feelings based on what again?

Here you are twisting my words again. My entire point was that

nobody

knows Mavsfan's "alignment and thoughts and feelings". There is absolutely nothing to go on. Lynching Mavsfan would therefore be a gamble. In a gamble, there is a much greater chance that town would be lynched than scum (66% chance as opposed to 33% of lynching scum). It would not be a very smart gamble to take, which is why I was arguing against it.

One last time gayle. What player do you know that is town that purposely avoids a game where they are the main target of a lynch?

One last time, Farside. Prove to me that Mavsfan was purposely avoiding the game.

@Sanhora:

Go back and re-read my posts along with Farside's responses to said posts. If Farside is town, why is she repeatedly twisting my words like this?

[Gayle]

You know the profile and searching for post are down but I you lynch me see I flip town and know I was telling the truth about masv

"You'll be sorry when I flip town!" Standard scum procedure. Also, her flip is somehow indicative of Mavsfan's alignment.

Your gamble is all calling mans town over scum. You haven't stated a reason you find the dude town even when I point out I saw him online and now you want proof afterwards.........

Dear Miss Farside,

How many times do I have to repeat that I didn't call Mavsfan town? How many times do I have to repeat that there is not sufficient evidence to prove that he is either town or scum? How many times do I have to repeat that if there is not enough evidence for a read, then the result is essentially a gamble? How many times do I have to repeat that in that gamble we have far more likely a chance of lynching town than scum? How many times are you going to twist my words and ignore the actual meaning of my argument? How many [continued on reverse]

yup pretty sure gayle is scum twisting in the wind.

Pretty sure scum is twisting Gayle's words.

sanhora since you are the party being disussed between myself and gayle. What is your view on the argument.

Disingenuous. We are not discussing Sanhora. We are discussing Mavsfan. My argument does not apply to Sanhora.

[Gayle]

@Gayle
1. I'm not

advocating a straight up lurker

lynch. I'm advocating a: A guy who posted nothing after he knows that the deadline was going to end in a week.

My issue was: Mavs at the time knew that the deadline was approaching yet posted nothing at all

. That goes beyond anti-town lurkering: That's just scummy to kill discussion like that when he knew this was happening before the extension.

I'll say to you what I said to fellow scum farside, prove to me that Mavsfan didn't have a good reason for not posting.

2. You ignore the specifics of my case. We aren't advocating a lurker lynch, other wise Xolelf would be on the other block as well. Read my case. You ignored it you said it's just essentially a kill a lurker case. I outlined why a mav lynch was more preferable to a Xolelf lynch even though they both equally lurked.

Okay, sir. Let's look at your case.

The diffrence between Xoxelf and Ani versus Mav is MAV POSTED AFTER CSL GOD POSTED THE DEADLINE . I have yet to check Ani's or Xoxelf's posts to see if they are posting else where, but with the current information: MAV SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE DEADLINE IS IN A WEEK . If Ani or Xoxelf posted after CSL's announcement they deserve the same treatment.

Hence why it is my prefrence to run Mav up the wagon because HE HAS NO EXCUSE TO NOT SCUM HUNT . If Ani and Xoxelf aren't posting in other games, it means that they are legitly not on this website.

I caps the important part so you wouldn't miss it, again. My issue is with the timing of the posts. Xoxelf and Ani's are very useless, but Mav posted 2 hours after CSL's 1 week deadline announcement. He knew at the time of that post that our time to scum hunt is drastically reduced and contributed nothing .

A lot of words to say "MavsFan is scummy because he posted after the mod stated the deadline". You call that a case? The timing of his post is irrelevant if we do not know for certain that he doesn't have a good reason for not posting. You say that he wasn't scumhunting. It is ridiculous to accuse him of not scum hunting when he has two posts. In fact, the fact that he has two posts is the basis of why you are even accusing him of a lack of scumhunting. Therefore, yes, it is a "lynch the lurker" case.

3. Also your speculation is very very lacking and extremely scummy.

It reads as: I am scum who is defending the lurker but I'm not committed to defending him. If it came down to it Mavs could be scum or town

.

My issue was with policy lynching Mavsfan for no good reason instead of waiting for a replacement. Tell me how this is scummy in any way. My argument isn't lacking. Neither you nor Farside has been able to argue against it without twisting my words. Only scum would bother twisting my words. Therefore my argument was very effective in that it helped me uncover two scum.

Of course? What? When did I say that mavsfan looked like town? I said that lynching mavsfan is a gamble. A mavsfan lynch is essentially a policy lynch as there is not even a semblance of a case against him. He has two posts, therefore he is scum. You saw him online, therefore he is scum. Who knows why he was online? Who knows why he only has two posts? With the town to scum ratio, a mislynch is particularly bad. There is no reason to rush a lynch now when we can get a replacement to help us get a better read.

a. Lynching is always a gamble. Can we lynch Gayle instead for this scummy scummy post? You are being too wishy washy with this speculation. You say that Mavs could be town or scum: (oh mai his content is so littler therefore we can't get a town read, but I don't see enough to say he's not scum)

Lynching is always a gamble, but not always a gamble with such terrible odds. There was no evidence that Mavsfan was scum, therefore it was pointless for us to take such a gamble. It is not wishy washy because the point was that regardless of his actual alignment,

we didn't have enough information to lynch him instead of waiting for the replacement

.

b. You are trying to break up a wagon on a suspicious guy. A bandwagon on day one is a useful pressure tool

to fricken gain those reads that you say we don't have enough on

on a guy who we don't have readss

You do absolutely nothing to fix this problem

.

Except that he was at L-1 and it was close to the deadline. It was well past the point of pressure. We were about to take an extremely bad gamble. I wasn't doing anything to fix the problem? Tell me, who was the one arguing that we wait for the replacement to actually get a read?

c. Lastly you don't even attack me, the guy who started this case. You don't even attack KMD, the guy who agreed that Mav's wagon was more legitmate then Xolelfs, who everyone seems to compare to.

My intention wasn't even to attack anyone at first. My intention was to prevent a bad lynch. In the process of that, Farside's twisting of my words convinced me that she is scum. Much like yours have just done the same thing.

Issue 1: We have no read on Mav/San
Issue 2: Mav's post is antitown multipled by 10 due to the context of the post.
Issue 3: Neither of you are helping this situation. I decree that both players die because they are arguing over an issue: but neither players seem to resolve it in any manner
Issue 4: Neither of them addressed Sanh's post.

Look at issue 1 and then issue 2. What is 0x10?

Look at issue 3. "Both players should die because they are having a discussion that hasn't ended yet."

As for issue 4, I have no reason to address Sanhora's post.


TL;DR: Lynch Farside or DTM for twisting words and implying that they had a valid reason to suspect that a guy with two posts was scum.

[Gayle]

Explain to me how this doesn't warrant a bandwagon pressure: talk.

My argument is that it didn't warrant a lynch. Which was what it was about to become.

2. If CSL didn't extend the deadline: what would you have done? Hmm?

Who knows. My argument concerns the situation of town when I made the case. What I would have done in any other context is irrelevant.

Get the time line straight.

I am not sure what you mean here.

4. Lol. You

only now call me scum after I call you out on not calling me scum

Why is it that your argument against farside, which is perfectly applicable to me only

now being addressed by you

to call me scum?

..because only now did you make the same argument. I think you are confused about why I think you and farside are scum. I believe you are scum not because of your earlier cases or votes, but because you the way you both twist my words and pretend like you had conclusive evidence that Mavsfan was scum.

5. Since you are posting to graciously wait and let the replacement read

why am I the only one so far who has read and commented on what Sanhs, the replacement to Mav?

Because no one is required to comment on his post, and I was more concerned with Farside (and now yourself).

Issue 1: You brought up. You did nothing. You didn't even comment on how Sanh's post is more townie then Mav.

I have no reason to post such a comment.

Issue 2: I my argument, why Mav's posts is justifiably more anti-town then then Xolelf or Ani.

His argument is anti-town because he posted after the moderator? I disagree.

Issue 3: Then why are you being so bent over backwards wishy washy about the Mavs issue, especially when we have a replacement. You aren't even using Sanhs, the

replacement to Mavs

on how Savn's is demonstrating that the Mavs/Sahn's wagon isn't a viable lynch.

I am not being wishy washy. My argument has been consistent from the beginning: There is no reason to suspect that Mavsfan is either town or scum, therefore there is no reason not to wait for the replacement. Sanhora is irrelevant to the argument. I am not trying to prove that Mavsfan alignment is one way or another. The discussion is now about the scummy responses I got to my argument.

Farside is twisting your words. She said you called Mav's town. You are defending Mavs and saying that the wagon is poor. You say you have no read, but farside is scum for twisting your words. You say you don't know if Mav's is scum but you think farside is scum for attacking your attack on her push on Mav.

You are bending over backwards over a guy who you don't think is town by attacking farside who is pushing for the lynch? The eff?

^^ This leap in logic is horrible! This isn't town scum hunting, you are implying that:

Mav/Sanh is town but at the same time could be lynched because there is the chance that the player is scum. You say its a gamble, and you complain about the lack of posts.

But you just said that you had nothing to comment on the guy who you have issues with because of said lack of posts, after the replacement just posted

That was horribly scummy. My suspicions of Farside are because she is trying to paint me as a Mavsfan's scumbuddy by twisting my words to look like I am calling Mavsfan town and otherwise defending him. Whereas my actual argument is that "We shouldn't lynch a guy with two posts until he is replaced and we get a proper read". Now, you have begun to do the same thing, which is why you have also become suspect.

While Gayle takes a neutral stance on Mav/Sanhs, he is bending over backwards over this case to defend him against the original wagon. This is extremely suspicious.

Disingenuous. The discussion is now about the scummy responses I got to my argument.

[Gayle]

Gayle said that mansv is a mislynch
gayle said that mansv is more likely town then scum with no reason.
At no time did gayle ever say that mansv could be scum.

unvote:
vote: Gayle

some either knows a players alignment or is helping said scum buddy.

Now you've taken to ignoring my posts entirely, I see.

[Gayle]

Farside:

It is wrong, as I have already explained, time after time. You refuse to acknowledge my explanations at all. Arguing further with you is a waste of time.

Farside is scum.
DTM is scum.
These are facts.

Now I'm going to take a look at TQO.

[Gayle]

I've answered it time and time again. Prove to me that he was refusing to post in this game.

[Gayle]

I've answered it time and time again. Prove to me that he was refusing to post in this game.

All I can do is ask the mod which I did. As you know there is no way to find a post per player on a day any more so your.
What will you do when the mod confirms he picked up his prod. What little hole will you take then?

I would then ask you to prove to me that he was refusing to post in this game.


Also

My quotes are facts so far you have no facts at all.

[Gayle]

@KMD:

Tell me why I am scummy so I can do the same explanations I did for Farside and DTM a third time.

[Gayle]

You are going to at least explain what you find scummy, correct? You are going to just say "Gayle is scummy, and didn't convince me otherwise" are you?

[Gayle]

Remove one of the "at least".

Done.

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.8 (As of my last post)

Sanhora -2- JacobSavage, Pomegranate

Pomegranate -1- Slaxx
farside22 -2- Gayle, animorpherv1

Gayle -3- DTMaster, farside22, kmd4390

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf, Gheb, TheLonging

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

JacobSavage replaces TQO.

DTM, your vote on TQO did not count due to misspelling. You voted for someone else, but just to let you know.

---

You are

not

going to just say

Grammar is for losers, anyway.

[Gayle]

Well, it still has the new bandwagon smell, so I'm taking it for a test drive. Gotta say I like the way it handles so far.

"No, I won't give reasons for calling someone scummy or jumping on a bandwagon created by two scummy players. I just like hopping from one ill advised bandwagon to another."


Also, from my re-read of TQO, I have no reason to suspect that he is scum.

[Gayle]

In other words, I am scummy but you haven't bothered read my posts. 'kay, got it.

[Gayle]

Prove to me that the reason he wasn't posting is because he is being accused in this game.

[Gayle]

Farside, my point is that

Mavsfan's motives cannot be known

. You say that he was purposefully avoiding the thread. I say that there is no way to prove that he was purposefully avoiding the thread. At the time, lynching because of such a thing was a bad idea, because there was no other reason for him to be suspected as scum. Lynching him was more likely to result in a townie lynch than a scum lynch. I wanted us to instead wait for the replacement. Which part of this do you not understand?

[Gayle]

On my iPhone

@Gayle

1. Um the case against Mavs was: he was the most scummiest player at the time of the wagon. We went ove this when we compaired xolelf, ani and slaxx. Tell ke again how the vote, wagon, L1 wasn't a viae option when he was the most scummiest.

Tell us how the others warrented the vote or how farside/DTM did during the time of the vote. You are essentially defending Mavs/Sanh when you call out our case for being faulty? Why? At no time do you eer speculate that Farside, DTM, and Mavs could be generating a budding manuver. All you do provide to the table is: farside and dtm are scum for pushing a case on a guy who posted little, but has been defined as antitown/scummy ( or scummier then the others)

Instead of making disingenuous accusations, read my posts to learn the actual reason I suspect you and Farside.

Also, why was it better to lynch Mavsfan than wait for his replacement?

I plan to say Disingenuous 100 times before the day ends.

[Gayle]

So unless you can prove to me he was not avoiding this game. Your defense of him just comes off as scummy trying to save a scum partner.

Thing is, if you can say "Unless you can prove that he wasn't" I can just as easily say "Unless you can prove that he was". It is impossible to prove one way or another. And you are still avoiding the point of the entire discussion, so I will ask you what I just asked DTM. Why should we have lynched Mavsfan instead of waiting for his replacement?

[Gayle]

That post is a bit confusing, I'll wait until you get to a computer.

[Gayle]

DTM, I think you seriously need to re-read my posts.

[Gayle]

In other words, I am scummy but you haven't bothered read my posts. 'kay, got it.

I've read your posts. I want you to summarize some opinions because I'm not coming to the same conclusion.

You're very defensive. I think my pressure vote caught me some scum.

Uh... what? You haven't even provided any pressure. All you've done is "Gayle is scummy for unexplained reasons!".

Farside, my point is that

Mavsfan's motives cannot be known

.

Nobody's motives are known until they flip.

facepalm.jpg

[Gayle]

Gayle did you even read this post from CSL in regards to Mavsfan?

And this proves that he was purposefully avoiding this game because of the accusation made against him? How does this make it better to lynch Mavsfan rather than waiting for his replacement?

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.9 (As of my last post)

Sanhora -2- JacobSavage, Pomegranate

Pomegranate -1- Slaxx

farside22 -3- Gayle, animorpherv1, Gheb
Gayle -3- DTMaster, farside22, kmd4390

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf, TheLonging

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

DEADLINE: Friday, February 12, 2010, at 8:00pm EST

---

Gayle, placing the vote was enough to make you get all defensive. I think it served it's purpose.

KMD, if asking you to explain yourself is "defensive", then yes your vote caused me to become terribly defensive.

[Gayle]

Also, your suspects are the players who are voting you.

Further proof you haven't read my posts. Which came first, my suspicions or their votes?


Also, please don't correct farside. I sort of like how she misspells it every time.

[Gayle]

Going to keep up with this scummy argument, huh? I asked for proof that Mavsfan was purposefully avoiding this game. There is none.

Also, let's look at some of Farside's interpretations of my statements.

I would like to replace mavsfan rather than risk a mislynch due to little information. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup.

1) talks about it as a mislynch

I don't necessary think he would be a mislynch, rather that with his grand total of 2 posts we have very little to determine if he is scum or not. It would basically just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town. Apparently he is going to be "force replaced" (far stronger than a normal replacement), and so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't wait to see what his replacement has to say.

stated the player in question is more likely town then scum based on nothing at all.

Don't those interpretations seem a bit disingenuous to anyone else?

Disingenuous Count: 10/100. Keep it up farside. I'm still quite a way from my goal.

[Gayle]

What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

1) Lets see actually statement: You are calling it a mislynch (twice). This implies you know something about the lynch or alignment of a player

I would like to replace mavsfan

rather than risk a mislynch due to little information

. I really don't want to mislynch a lurker in this setup.

2) backtracks comment (not a mislynch) Calls it gambling stating the player has better odds of being town because why?

You still avoid the why of this?

It would basically

just be a gamble, and the odds are better that he is town.

There are 12 players. 4 are scum, 8 are town. That is roughly a 66% chance that any given player is town, and a 33% chance that any given player is to scum. So yes, there is a greater chance that Mavsfan is town. It is stupid to gamble on his lynch when our odds of lynching town are 2/3.

Lynching Mavsfan would therefore be a gamble. In a gamble, there is a much greater chance that town would be lynched than scum (66% chance as opposed to 33% of lynching scum). It would not be a very smart gamble to take, which is why I was arguing against it.

Let me fix that for you

You still avoid

I repeatedly ignore the why of this.

Gayle: Do you wipe away the slate of a player who replaces another you find scummy? Why or why not?

No. Because the fact remains that the slot still had scummy behavior.

[Gayle]

I think that you were only suspicious of farside, originally.

Originally, yes. Then DTM began twisting my words in the same way, so that made him suspicious.

Gayle keeps ignoring any explanations for the mavs wagon- that we were very close to deadline, and mavs hadn't posted any content, and had avoided this game.

On second thought, Vote: Gayle.

Here you go, my first use of a smilie on mafiascum . It was close to the deadline. You had to make a choice. I understand that. Now what the hell has that got to do with my argument?

[Gayle]

Also, I am

L-1

, I believe.

[Gayle]

Nvm, I'm too used to newbie games.

[Gayle]

2. If we needed to lynch someone, he was the best choice. No, we do not know his motivations for avoiding this game. It is still scummy.

Okay, let me see if I understand this.

You say:

The deadline was approaching. Town needed a lynch, and Mavsfan was avoiding the game. You are certain of his intentions because he was sighted on MS.

I say:

There are any number of reasons he could have for not posting. There is no way to determine his intentions.

What I was arguing:

We should replace Mavsfan instead of lynching him with so little information.

What Farside was arguing:

Gayle is defending Mavsfan and calling him town for no good reason.

Your Conclusion:

I am ignoring explanations and am scum.

What?

Pom, what

exactly

is your reason for voting me? Because I maintain that we cannot read Mavsfan's mind?

You've made some allegations that are simply untrue. Show me where I misrepresented Farside. While you are at it, tell me how the explanations I am supposedly ignoring make the following argument scummy

I would like to replace mavsfan rather than risk a mislynch due too little information.

[Gayle]

You know, it's rather entertaining that you two are arguing over a replacement, but this is getting out of hand.

Expect a votecount by 10:30.

The replacement isn't actually the subject anymore, rather the subject is the arguments that resulted from the replacement discussion, and why those arguments may or may not be scummy.

Or are you saying that there is nothing to worry about in those arguments?

[Gayle]

We say:

Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice.

Pom... you do realize that Mavsfan has been replaced and the deadline extended right?

Gayle, if you saw my 272, I do think farside misrepresented you a bit. But the fact that you can't seen to get it into your head that maybe mavs was a good lynch then, and maybe there was a reason... well, it's a bit frustrating.

So the reason you are voting me is because I wanted to replace Mavsfan rather than lynch him?

Five days until deadline, and it's going nowhere.

CSL, at least six players (from memory) have changed their vote because of this discussion. That is getting nowhere? Or are you saying we are on the wrong track and are therefore getting nowhere?

Gonna keep talking to you until you realize that it is a bad idea for a mod to give his opinion on the discussion.

[Gayle]

Pom, you and farside (you weren't even around) never argued that we didn't have time to wait for the replacement. Farside was arguing that there was a good reason for suspecting Mavsfan was scum. Where exactly did you pull "Um, deadline's in a few days. We don't have time for that. Mavs is our best choice." from?

[Gayle]

Pom, you are confusing me so much right now. Can you please state as clearly as possible why you are voting me?

[Gayle]

@Slaxx:

May I ask for your opinion on this and this?

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.10 (As of Post 324)

animorpherv1 -3- TheLonging, animorpherv1, Slaxx

Sanhora -1- JacobSavage

Pomegranate -1- kmd4390

farside22 -3- Gayle, animorpherv1, Gheb

Gayle -2- DTMaster, Pomegranate

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch

DEADLINE: Friday, February 12, 2010, at 8:00pm EST

animorpherv's new avatar scares the shit out of me.

---

CSL's 278 has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle...

This is why the mod shouldn't comment on discussion.

I think you are using it as an excuse though.

Explain clearly the reason you voted me, and the reason you unvoted.

@Farside:

Is the bottom of your 293 addressed to me? If it is you are still "misinterpreting" what I said. Also there is a difference between not listening and not agreeing.

[Gayle]

No the bottom is the reason's I'm voting for morph.
sigh

But Farside, Morph never mentioned anything about percentages or odds.

[Gayle]

Read the issues here. (1) your saying I'm misinterperting your post based on mislynch and saying someone is more likely town then scum because of %. Is this wrong so far?

It is not exactly wrong, but it is a bit misleading. I was saying:
1 - There was too little information on Mavsfan to make an informed decision.
2 - That being so, lynching Mavsfan was a gamble.
3 - In that gamble, we were more likely to mislynch than lynch scum.

2) your saying you reconize now that he (mas) was avoiding but you want to pounce on the word purposely because you think purposely makes the fact he's avoiding the game worse or something?
If a player is avoiding a game how is it not on purpse? Please explain this becuase you have been holding this prove to me he was avoiding on purpose. When I showed he avoided the game that you have this attitude I can't even understand.

No, I don't recognize that he was avoiding the game. My whole argument was that we don't know if he was avoiding the game. The rest is semantics.

To try to put it clearly: It is impossible to know whether Mavsfan's lack of posts was intentional.



In other news, my lynch candidates are: KMD or Farside, because DTM never made it home.

[Gayle]

Are you now backtracking from this? Are you now calling the mod a liar too?

farside22 wrote:
What word would you use in place of avoid?
He is posting else in another game and not posting here. What other word would you use?

The keyword isn't avoid, the keyword is purposefully.

See, it is stuff like this that lead me to believe that you really aren't just misinterpreting things. My point is that no one, not me, not you, not the mod, can know why Mavsfan's wasn't posting. That being so, it is impossible to know whether he was deliberately not posting in this thread. I said "purposefully avoiding". You pointed out the word avoiding. I said the keyword is purposefully. Now you are arguing the semantics of something that means the same thing either way: We don't know why he wasn't here.

What exactly am I supposed to be backtracking from? 'Cause that has always been my argument.

[Gayle]

Also You keep either on purpose or blindly missing my comment where I state that I saw him looking in little italy and did not post in this game before he was replaced.
What would you say about a player that does that?

Farside, I am not missing your comment. I've already responded to similar effect of the reponse I am about to make: I would say he was posting in another game. That does not automatically mean he was avoiding this one. That does not automatically mean he is scum in this one.

This particular part of the argument is not going to get us anywhere. You are going to keep saying he was doing it on purpose, and I am going to keep saying we can't know if he was doing it on purpose. A proposal: Let's move on to something more productive.

[Gayle]

I'm voting morph you should join that vote.

I would rather vote KMD. Please consider the following:

-Votes DTM saying it was not a joke vote. When asked about his reasoning he responds "What do you think my reasoning is?"
-Votes Mavsfan because "[Mavsfan] confirmed after the day started, but didn't add anything else."
-Votes Gayle because "cuz it's gonna be a fun bandwagon and I don't want to miss it.". When asked about his reasoning
he responds "Well, it still has the new bandwagon smell, so I'm taking it for a test drive. Gotta say I like the way it handles so far.".
-Unvotes Gayle because "[the mod] has me wondering if we are on the wrong track with Gayle... "
-Votes Pom because "I have town reads on the other 2, and know myself to be town. Also, her posts are kinda scummy."
-He is also willing to lynch animorph "if people want to do that".

Please notice that every time there is a bandwagon, he is there.

[Gayle]

DTM, what are you going on about?

[Gayle]

Just saw morph's new avatar. Go ahead and lynch him guys.

[Gayle]

I just read up on ani. I don't think that he is particularly scummy.

[Gayle]

Can you expand on why that is? What it is that leads you to this view?

I don't know what to expand on. I read him in iso, and I didn't really see anything all that scummy. His main problem seems to be that he doesn't have much content. While he warrants further investigation, I don't see a reason to vote him over you or kmd.

[Gayle]

Ok, is this supposed to be a case or just a summary of my play?

It is a demonstration of how you haven't made one solid vote for the entire game, and when questioned about them you give ridiculous responses.

[Gayle]

Votecount 1.10 (As of My Last Post)

animorpherv1 -4- TheLonging, farside22, Slaxx, kmd4390

Sanhora -1- JacobSavage

farside22 -2- Gayle, animorpherv1
Xofelf -1- Gheb
Gayle -2- DTMaster, Pomegranate

Not voting: Sanhora, xofelf

With

12

alive, it's

7

to lynch. Currently, animorpherv1 would be lynched if deadline were to hit now.

DEADLINE: Friday, February 12, 2010, at 8:00pm EST

(You have 2 days left!)

animorpherv's new avatar

STILL

scares the shit out of me.

---

Vote Animorph. Deadline coming up and he's lurking and has a wagon on him.

Another crap vote for crap reasons for a crap wagon.

I don't want to take my vote off of Farside, though. Pom, we are friends, right? Vote KMD for me. <-- Proper way to use friendship.

Scum Team 1: Farside + KMD

[Gayle]

I can say the fact you didn't see anything on morph and the fact that he is clearly not scum hunting as a mark against you with him and you as a scum team.

I thought I was Mavsfan's scumbuddy? Or am I scum with anybody I don't find particularly scummy?

I also came up with a case for KMD and would vote him in a lynch was needed but I believe morph scum over kmd.

I actually question the fact that you felt the need to build a case against him. I say "This is why KMD is scummy" and you respond by building a case on him. Seems like distancing.

---

Can you clarify this statement for me?

in short: No reasoning, lack of scum hunting, voting for weak reason's. This doesn't not read Kmd town at all to me.

---

<How I Originally Planned This Post>

I also came up with a case for KMD and would vote him in a lynch was needed but I believe morph scum over kmd.

You heard he likes riding bandwagons so you thought he might like a trip on the bus. <--

Lame

Awesome
</How I Originally Planned This Post>

[Gayle]

4)Yes I'm a mind reader and knew you would ask me to look at Kmd.

You don't have to know in advance that I'm going to ask you about KMD to bus him when I do.

...I guess you don't think it was awesome.

[Gayle]

morph calls me scum and town in the same post and regarding the same reason
here

Er... please read that more carefully. He isn't saying you are town.

misinterperts the lynch votes for mavsfan
here

Not really a misinterpretation. Also, not scummy.

hypocritical post here calling me out for lack of scum hunting here

He was stating his opinion. And he can't say you aren't hunting scum if he is guilty of the same thing? This is a scummy argument. Regardless of his play, he can find your play scummy.

more misinterperts reason for votes here

Again, not really a misinterpretation.

So basically Gayle found none of this scummy but thinks that there is nothing scummy in morph.

'Cause none of it is scummy. The only way you can find it scummy is by speculation about his motives.

Let's take a look at that. You are accusing Ani of being scum because of two "misinterpretations" and the fact that he said you weren't scum hunting. I find it hard to believe that that is enough to make the case against him so terribly damning that anyone who disagrees with it simply

must

be scum.

Also, I was so confident that your links would be nonsense that I went ahead and separated each point into separate quotes, preparing to explain

why

each was nonsense, before I even followed the links. And I was

right

.

Confirm Vote: Farside22

[Gayle]

You know what, I've thought this out. This whole "no lynching at deadline" isn't that good at all.

I'm going to be nice.

Expect the change in the next votecount.

Argh! Don't do that!

[Gayle]

@gayle how is that not a misrep.
How in the world do you not see him saying farside is town then scum for the same point? Please explain.

This is where he is supposedly calling you town, correct?

Who is the most suspicious and why?

I have a town read on Slaxx for trying to get us out of the speculation talk, and farside for 17 posts of setup speculation/RVS in an Open Game.

He isn't saying you are town, he is saying Slaxx is town. The 17 posts of setup speculation/RVS in an Open Game are reason why you are suspicious, not why you are town. At least from my understanding.

So you think lack of scum hunting and misrep of what is going on the game = town.

Firstly, you said Misinterpretation, not Misrepresentation. The former is far less scummy than the latter. Secondly, I disagree that it is misrepresentation if that is the word you meant to use.

Nice I'm glad to keep my vote on morph at this time.
But please keep pushing your crap at me. I look forward to my lynch and seeing you squirm on your hypocrisy's tomorrow when I flip town.

Here Farside uses

my

words to implicate

ani

. She also once again goes the "You'll be sorry if you lynch me!" route.

By the way his post is a lie I was scum hunting before post 154 I wanted to see if you actually thought the case had meritt but I see you aren't reading what is going on in the game.
So it's more then hypocritical becuase yes calling someone out for not scum hunting when you do the same is scummy. Look it up. It was a complete lie.

Look at the ani quote above. He is saying that you were doing setup speculation and rvs instead of scum hunting.

I love how Gayle is covering up for anyone I consider scummy at the moment but Kmd.
Good times, good times.

While I am certainly defending Ani (too many scummy people on the wagon, too few solid reasons to justify the wagon, and I just don't find him scummy), I was not defending Mavsfan.

@Jacob:

There is still time to change who is going to get lynched. If you think Farside is more scummy, vote her.

[Gayle]

I disagree you were definately defending Mavsfan by basically giving a free pass to a player that is clearly posting in another game and not posting in this game. Your response about him not posting here is almost a so what and we have a replacement so it's no big deal what he did, blah, blah, blah.

Wrong, I was arguing to replace Mavsfan. I never argued to give him a 'free pass'.

---

Your now defending morph and doing a poor job at that. So far no reason's on why you don't see his post as a misrep.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Okay, let's look at these supposed misrepresentations.

I'm going to say Gyale is right. Why policy lynch when he's bound to get replaced? Also, why xofelf over mavsfan? They both have 2 posts. One is a guy, the other is a girl. They are both on the verge of getting replaced.

He says that I am right that there is little reason to lynch Mavsfan when he is getting replaced. Where is the misrepresentation? The "Policy Lynch" part? Lynching someone for lurking is a policy lynch.

I lol how everyone is voting Gayle for essentially saying mavs is going to get replaced.

You started attacking me because I wanted to replace Mavsfan. This isn't a misrep, this is the truth.

You are calling me scummy for not wanting to lynch Ani of

that

?

---

Gayle pleading for others to change their vote and morph saying the person voting for him is scummy.
*sits back and wonders how this can't look scummy to others*

Gayle trying to get others to lynch the person that Gayle finds scummy. *sits back and wonders why that would be scummy*

[Gayle]

What is the only way to know (aka you know there is a 100% chance he is scum) the person your lyncing is going to be scum in this setup? Since there is not a sinlge investigative role, that only leaves your his scum partnerpicking up on an easy wagon tolook like town.

HOW DID I IMPLY THAT I KNEW HIM TO BE SCUM?

This is just noise that does not answer the question.

I believe it does answer the question. I believe his argument is this: You attack me for implying that Mavsfan is town (I didn't). That implies that you know Mavsfan is scum.

I don't necessarily agree with that argument, but I thought I'd point that out since you love to ignore responses and claim that your questions were never answered.

[Gayle]

Scum Team 1: Farside + KMD

Wait, I'm in a game with Farside?
...
Sweet.

Try again. If we were scum together, I'd have known it when I got my Role PM.

Er... do you think that clears you somehow?

-Gayle, I think I agree with you on Kmd. But don't get our friendship involved.

What is the point of having friendship if you can't terribly abuse it?

[Gayle]

@Farside:

Not my argument, don't throw it at me. I'm only trying show that he did, in fact, answer your question. It is only my interpretation, could be entirely different from what he actually meant.

@KMD:

That post is worthless. It proves nothing and doesn't clear you in the least.

[Gayle]

I am only voting ani, to save a deadlock and ending up, with a stand-off between both sides, one voting ani, one on farside.
Personly I think that Farside is far more suspisous, and with ani only being lynched because of an apparent lack of activity, we are missing out on getting rid of one of the Mafia members.

You can't say "Farside is far more suspicious than Ani" and then vote Ani and complain that we are missing out on getting rid of Mafia members. Fact is, your vote is on the person you find less suspicious, for no good reason. Further, you haven't done any scum hunting at all. You entered the game and immediately jumped from one bandwagon to the biggest bandwagon.

@All:

I don't want to lynch Ani. I'm willing to lynch kmd or Farside. How many people are willing to go for one or the other?

Also, I lol'd about Farside complaining about people not reading things.

[Gayle]

@gayle: you going to keep harping that morph was right in his comments and it wasn't a misrep of what was going on the game?

Rather, I'm moving on and you are the one harping that morph is wrong and that it was a misrep.

[Gayle]

Your right this isn't harping this is a dig at me again.

I'm not trying to insult or upset you. It is just that when you ask something like this

So what makes you think morph is not scum?

Something that I

just got done going over

, It leads to me believe that you are completely ignoring what I say and instead repeatedly ask questions that have already been answered.

[Gayle]

@Jacob:

How is your vote helping anything other than getting Ani lynched? Ani has the most votes and is therefore going to be lynched even without your vote. Your half-hearted vote only makes it more difficult to lynch anyone else.

[Gayle]

Is Ani at L-1?

If so, this is quick hammer territory, so I'll just get this out there.

On Day 2, we should take a close look at KMD and question Jacob thoroughly. Don't assume that Farside is just misinterpreting things, and certainly don't let her appeals to emotion sway you. Also, Gheb and DTM are being ignored, and TheLonging and Elf are easy to forget. Don't. Also, scream at the mod for changing the deadline rules right before the deadline.

So you still think based on my response on why he is misrepresting what is going on the game is invalid?

Not sure what you are asking. I don't find Ani scummy at the moment, and certainly not as much as the people on his wagon. I disagree that it was misrep, and even if it was it was nowhere as egregious as yours.

[Gayle]

Vote: kmd

[Gayle]

along with saying the same over AIM makes me think that at least one scum is a power lurker.

You sure he wasn't telling you that over aim because you are scum?

You better be careful, CSL. I'm pretty sure kmd is going to punch you in the face.

[Gayle]

does anyone find it at all suspicious that Gayle and farside were having comments back and forth and now farside is dead? or is that just me?

No, I find it suspicious as well. We can only assume that I am stupid enough to kill the one person whose death would implicate me, and right after the player I spent the end of the day defending flips scum as well.

[Gayle]

Unvote xofelf, Vote TheLonging

Gonna explain your vote or what?

Xofelf's last post looks like she's playing to her town meta.

She is playing to her town meta by saying "I never suggested Gayle was scum"?

Bandwagon kmd, guys.

[Gayle]

And yes, that post is the one that looks like typical town xofelf.

You are going to have to explain that to me. Show me the meta you are talking about, and tell me why it indicates the elf is town.

[Gayle]

@TheLonging:

Other than kmd, who are your top suspects?

@xofelf:

Who do you find scummy and why?

@Pom:

Same question.

@DTM:

Are you alive?

[Gayle]

5 will freeze the victim.

"No! I must kill the mafia" Town shouted
The radio said "No, Town.

You

are the mafia"
And then Town was scum.

:) Funny! - Mod

[Gayle]

If kmd is lying, don't counterclaim.

[Gayle]

I'm not lying. I'll be dead tonight, so you should probably unvote.

Not going to unvote until you actually do something protown.

[Gayle]

I don't have the time or presence of mind to review this game right now, so I will

Unvote

until I return sometime tomorrow evening.

[Gayle]

Vote: JacobSavage

For voting Gayle for no other reason than "Gayle could be scum".

Let's hear your reasons.





inb4 omgus

[Gayle]

For suggesting CSL has cleared Gayle

Unvote, Vote:KMD

scum right here

[Gayle]

[Pom is scummy]

You can call this meta, but from my experience Pom isn't doing anything out of the ordinary for Pom. Further, Pom is a good girl and you should feel ashamed of calling her filthy scum. You are a bad person and I hope you feel bad.

Also rereading is a pain in the ass -_-

I deny any responsibility for this.

Actually, seeing who he replaced, I already knew that.

Wanna lynch him? (Oh, you're already voting him. Heh)

Unvote, Vote Jacob Wagon GOGOGO

Sadly, every time you post you stick out as obvious scum.

Vote: Kmd4390

as for Gayle, I went on gut feeling, in hope of drawing infomation, which it did.

What information did you gain, exactly? Or are you just following kmd's example of ridiculous votes?

[Gayle]

I attacked JacobSavage because of his vote. Instead of responding, he made another vote without reason, so I called him scum. kmd then make a ridiculously scummy vote towards Jacob, and so I switched my vote back.

Explain to me why I'm scummy. Not just concerning this incident either, but lay out your entire case against me.

[Gayle]

You just completely invalidated your point about my switching of votes. Further, your reason for voting Gheb is completely ridiculous.

Build a case against Gayle.
Build a case against Gheb.

We are not lynching on one accusation of yours.

Vote: DTMaster

I'll respond to your newer post in a moment.

[Gayle]

@DTM:

Concerning 521, My reason for voting Jacob was in the post I voted Jacob. I didn't drop anything. I am questioning both Jacob and kmd. You can add yourself to that list now. Give me an accusation that isn't complete nonsense, please.

[Gayle]

I'll respond to the large post in a moment, but kmd outright claimed he was the doctor in bold letters. iso him and search doctor.

[Gayle]

KMD claiming doctor

Not naming any names, but

somebody

hasn't been reading the thread.

Also, searching doctor doesn't work 'cause he said doc. My mistake.

[Gayle]

@DTMaster

The Reason why I am voting KMD, is that he survived the night, surley if someone has claimed Doctor at least one of the Mafia would have the brains to kill him?
As for no counter-claim, the doctor wants to survive, so counter-claiming someone who could be town or Mafia, is not fruitfull

This is a complete lie. KMD didn't claim doctor until today.

[Gayle]

Hey, if people want day to end now, they may request it via PM. I really don't see anyone other than JS being lynched

If enough people want the day to end they would just vote JacobSavage to get it over with. If there is no majority, and we aren't at deadline, there is no reason to end the day. Period.


btw, CSL just confirmed Jacobscum.

[Gayle]

CTRL+F, search "gayle"

Gayle also says she doesnt' want a counter claim and pushed for kmd lynch more during that day 2. This seems scum motivated because who else would want to lynch a claimed doc?

vote: Gayle

Tell me why you were pushing my lynch over a now known scum player.

Friends don't call friends scum, Farside!

I don't want a counterclaim because I don't believe kmd's claim, and the doctor is too valuable in this setup. kmd's play has done nothing to lead me to believe his claim his true, whereas it has done plenty to lead me to believe he is scum.

Ignoring the other question.

[Gayle]

You want to ignore the best reason to lynch you which I stated day 1 shows a connection between you and morph and your push to vote a now dead proven townie over a dead scum.

confirm vote: Gayle

I ignore it because you are asking me "Why did you attack someone you found scummy over someone you didn't?"

[Gayle]

But you already know why I wanted to lynch you. And you already know what I thought of the ani wagon at the time. Your question implies that I either knew what ani's alignment was, which is nothing but speculation, or that I need to explain why I was wrong. The former isn't worth responding to and the latter is impossible to explain. Therefore, I refuse to answer your question.

Also,

"I asked why you didn't find morph scum and pushed a lynch on a player that flipped town. "
"Tell me why you were pushing my lynch over a now known scum player."
"Why did you attack someone you found scummy over someone you didn't?"
Same thing.

[Gayle]

I can show were you were trying to get people to vote for me over moph. What town player would do this?

A town player who thought both you and the wagon on ani was scummy.

I can show your blatantly ignoring my point on morph and his misrep's.

Rather, I responded that I disagreed that they were misreps. You love to misuse the word "ignore".

Seeing morph flip fire scum is pretty good chance with these points you are his scum parnter.

Your points are

A) I found you scummy
B) I tried to lynch you over someone else (who later turned out to be scum)
C) I disagreed with you

Needless to say, I disagree with your assessment of the odds.

vvvvv GAMBIT INCOMING vvvvv

On the mean prairie's of Missouri, when we make accusations based on little evidence, we back them up with a wager. Let's pretend we are in the MO, Farside. If I flip town, you have to change your avatar to an image of my choice. If I flip scum, I have to change my avatar to an image of your choice. To sweeten the deal, you only have to change your avatar for two weeks, whereas I will change mine indefinitely. Are you a bad enough

dude

dudette to accept this wager?

Fine Text: This wager is made invalid if the mod changes my alignment in any way or modkills me in a fury for attempting to break the game.

[Gayle]

you were wrong

I was wrong as to his alignment and intentions, yes.

and only scum would push on someone else's wagon to save their own scum partner.

If you are going to make such an accusation, surely you have the evidence to back it up? What evidence do you have that I was scum trying to "push on someone else's wagon to save [my] own scum partner", rather than simply being a towny trying to get my top suspect lynched?

May I ask your opinion on kmd? Do you believe his claim? Why or why not? Do you disagree that if kmd is lying, the real doctor should not counterclaim?


Also, the bet is on.

[Gayle]

Farside's new avatar:

Big version so you can understand just what your avatar is.


Good luck town, even though mafia is gonna win. Pour out a 40 for me and kmd.