Open 201 - Fire & Ice Mafia ~Over~

[TheLonging]

Confirm, though I won't be on for a day or so to study for midterms.

My fav animals are cats.

[TheLonging]

I don't get it, what is special about DTM

[TheLonging]

Because Person A could be Ice Mafia, so the kill by Fire Mafia wouldn't work anyways, so it wouldn't confirm Person A. Am I misunderstanding what you're asking Quintastic?

[TheLonging]

Either way the Doctor as far as I know isn't told what he successfully protected against and like someone else said if there's a crosskill to Person A then the Doc won't know if that guy was Mafia or Town in the first place. So I still don't see how the Doc acts as a tool for catching Mafia.

But I'm still fairly new with only about 2 games on here under my belt, one ongoing (including this one) and one game completed on another website so I could be missing some super experienced logic that only elite players can understand from countless hours of Mafia gaming.

Right, Doc isn't told what faction he's protecting in any game (from my knowledge), whether they're townies, mafia, or 3rd Party. Doc isn't really good as far as finding information in this current game (though maybe it'll help in later days?) Don't worry, you're not missing anything.

What did you not understand from the above?
doc protects player
one player is dead instead of two come morning.
doc knows based on type of kill that player is not part of that mafia.

no no, I don't think that's how it goes.

Jim is Fire Mafia. Tom is Ice Mafia. Bob is Doctor. Jill is random townie.

Jim targets Jill. Tom targets Jim. Bob protects Jim.
Jill dies. Jim doesn't die because he was targeted by Ice Mafia. Therefore the doctor was null and void in this case and we learn nothing.

Or let's say Bob protects Jill. We don't know if Jill is townie or mafia because no one died. Even if doctor claimed that he protected Jill, Jill could probably be mafia. Am I missing the point you're making? In your latest point you're just speculating. We might know we don't know, and speculating will get us nowhere.

[TheLonging]

I'm studying for midterms, but I try to come on when I can. Not a lot of chances but whatever.

Why do you like Slaxx's random vote Kmd? From what I've played, random voting long after RVS isn't a good play.

[TheLonging]

Longing, we didn't really get an RVS because of the setup discussion. Random voting is more productive than the setup discussion. It gets us on the right track.

What gave you the impression that it's "long after RVS"?

Well what's long after RVS for me is when we're past the random voting part and actually talk about who might be scum and about the game. I guess I can see where you are coming from with random voting being more productive than setup discussion.

[TheLonging]

V/LA until February 3rd. Will be back then or the 4th.

Noted. ~ CSL

[TheLonging]

Some questions, to spark some discussion:

TL, do you like being scum or town better? (Bonus: Why?)

I don't see how this will help us scumhunt. If you really insist I can answer it.

i know i havent posted much of anything other than my confirmation to this game. i dont have a read on anyone, so for me to post who i think is scum and who i think is town is not productive for the town at all. there is no one who looks extremely suspicious that i would be okay with lynching. i dont have any reads yet. i have nothing to offer at the moment.

Well I'm thinking with 5 pages you should have at least a read on someone. Even a town read. I don't really buy it at all. Plus you haven't tried to contribute that much.

Vote: mavsfan1

[TheLonging]

@TheLonging
-Can you elaborate more on your thoughts of Random Voting after the RVS?
-What reads did you have at the time of post 120? Because I haven't found anything from you at all.

1. You mean slaxx's random voting? I found it at the time to be bad, because I didn't really consider it RVS at all at the time. It did lead us out of the setup discussion and into real scumhunting mode, so I guess it did help us out. If you mean in general, I think it's a bad thing, especially if people are trying to scumhunt and all of a sudden someone random votes. I'd be pretty suspicious of that person.

2. I thought DTM was pretty town tbh, as well as Gheb. For scum reads, mavs because he was suspicious of no one and contributed nothing, and I thought (at the time) Slaxx because of randomly voting.

Sorry I haven't contributed much guys, though midterms are over (one more next week and I'm done), so I'll try to help contribute to the scumhunting.

[TheLonging]

also

Unvote: Sanhora

You're contributing a lot more than mavs, so I'm going to unvote

[TheLonging]

I was planning to post earlier. Oh well, I'm here now.

@TheLonging
-Can you elaborate more on your thoughts of Random Voting after the RVS?
-What reads did you have at the time of post 120? Because I haven't found anything from you at all.

1. You mean slaxx's random voting? I found it at the time to be bad, because I didn't really consider it RVS at all at the time. It did lead us out of the setup discussion and into real scumhunting mode, so I guess it did help us out. If you mean in general, I think it's a bad thing, especially if people are trying to scumhunt and all of a sudden someone random votes. I'd be pretty suspicious of that person.

2. I thought DTM was pretty town tbh, as well as Gheb. For scum reads, mavs because he was suspicious of no one and contributed nothing, and I thought (at the time) Slaxx because of randomly voting.

Some questions for you as well.
1. How come you didn't vote Slaxx, while thinking he was scummy?
2. Why did you vote Mavs over Slaxx, while Mavs was guilty of not contributing and Slaxx being guilty of not contributing and random voting?

1. I'm pretty sure I came back to see his post quite a few posts after accusing him of bandwagoning. I voiced my suspicion but later realized that it gave more relevant discussion then the setup discussion, so I didn't vote.

2. Because mavs contributed jack. Didn't name anyone he thought was suspicious, didn't try to help with scumhunting, avoided the game...

Vote: animorph

He hasn't done a lot. He's lurking, not even posting a lot when he does post, not sharing his thoughts...

my 2nd choice for suspicious people are dtm for bandwagoning so much throughout the day

[TheLonging]

@TheLonging
1. Um. Bandwagon = tools of the trade. Also I was the first to attack Mavs and clarified why the opposing wagon wasn't necessary. Where do you see my wagon?

I ment kmd

[TheLonging]

I was gonna make a post about how I found kmd and ani suspicious, but thread locked before it could.

Vote: kmd

Horrible bandwagoning, giving horrible reasons for voting, restating the obvious... that's the shortened version of my moderately-sized post.

[TheLonging]

I think xoxelf isn't scum, just needs to post more (I feel like I can't speak, but I'm trying to post more so I will). I still like my vote on kmd. I find it suspicious farside died tonight, so one of my suspicions is on Gayle.

[TheLonging]

Actually I see what Gayle is saying but wouldn't that go into WIFOM?

[TheLonging]

Unvote xofelf, Vote TheLonging

Xofelf's last post looks like she's playing to her town meta.

I understand voting for a lurker, but other than that, why do you think I am scum? Just want to lynch lurkers?

[TheLonging]

Votecount 2.2

kmd4390 -3- TheLonging, Gayle, Pomegranate

TheLonging -2- kmd4390, Gheb

Not voting: Slaxx, Xofelf, DTMaster

With 8 alive, 5 will freeze the victim. Currently, kmd4390 will be lynched at the deadline mentioned below.

Deadline is Sunday, February 21st, 2010, at 8:00pm EST.

DTMaster has about 30 hours left to respond to his prod

---

TheLonging, I am very sure that there is at least one lurkerscum, so that's the way I am going.

Gayle, xofelf tends to be very wishy washy and unsure of things as town.

I understand that. What about the part where you give me actual reasons for why you think I am scum in particular, besides lurking.

[TheLonging]

Haven't really gotten that far yet.

I find your vote worthless and invalid. Good day sir. I sill think you're the best lynch today.

[TheLonging]

EBWOP: *still

[TheLonging]

After we lynch TheLonging, remind me to make a case on Gheb.

Why not make a case on him and decide which one of us are the better lynch? Your only reasoning is I was lurking D1 so I must be obvscum. I know that reasoning, but you can't back it up, so it's a worthless vote.

[TheLonging]

lol @ the top suspect trying to dictate the lynches for the next 2 days.

I'm not dictating the lynches.

Sure kmd, go ahead please.

Modnote: Double Post deleted. :)

[TheLonging]

5 will freeze the victim.

"No! I must kill the mafia" Town shouted
The radio said "No, Town.

You

are the mafia"
And then Town was scum.

I lol'd. I still need to find a link to that fanfiction

@TheLonging:

Other than kmd, who are your top suspects?

No one else tbh, D1 was just a big argument between you and farside, and I found both town.

[TheLonging]

Votecount 2.3

kmd4390 -3- TheLonging, Gayle, Pomegranate

TheLonging -1- kmd4390
Pomegranate -1- Gheb

Not voting: JacobSavage, Xofelf, DTMaster

With 8 alive, 5 will freeze the victim. Currently, kmd4390 will be lynched at the deadline mentioned below.

Deadline is Sunday, February 21st, 2010, at 8:00pm EST.

(You have 4.5 days left)

DTMaster has less than a day left to respond to his prod

---

Hmm. TheLonging was on the Mavs wagon as well as my own, but not Animorph's. Interesting.

Uh I voted Animorph. Fail?

[TheLonging]

Oh shit, I'm wrong. There's a lazy vote on Animorph there, but that's the only mention of Animorph in his entire post history. (Until after the lynch)

I also mentioned why I thought Animorph was scummy in that vote. Yes I lurked D1 but most of it was Gayle vs. Farside, which I really didn't have much to do with + I wasn't online a lot

[TheLonging]

Because I found animorph more suspicious, because even though DTM bandwagoned, he at least posted good reasons, while ani really didn't.

[TheLonging]

I didn't have a lot of suspects, my only other suspect was someone I thought was more town than scum, but suspected because of bandwagoning (which isn't necessarily a scumtell at all)

[TheLonging]

My opinion of him now is that he needs to post on this day

[TheLonging]

My point against DTM was that he bandwagoned on a lot of people but at least he gave reasons for voting. from what I remember ani didn't or gave weak reasons.

[TheLonging]

I didn't say he was completely scummy, I said he was a suspect, not scum. I don't think I bandwagoned but if you guys say I did, ok then. Like I say, bandwagoning isn't a scumtell, more like a nulltell. Ani was more suspicious/scummy to me because he bandwagoned with weak reasons and contradicted himself.

[TheLonging]

gonna read through the thread after school, but Jacob looks like he's looking for cheap bandwagons

unvote

[TheLonging]

@Longing
Um do you realize that I've been tunnel heavy on the Mavs/Gayle issue. Like when did I go about and wagon on other people (aside from Ani). I was quite clear on my specific targets. You are bending backwards in your explanation.

Yeah I'm bending backwards, I thought on D1 your voting on Ani/Mavs/Gayle was bandwagoning.

OK I did a post search and the only vote that Ani did was on Farside. When did Ani bandwagon again?

I don't know about your definition of bandwagon, but my definition is when someone jumps o a player and votes them with weak reasoning (this could also be a very wrong definition). He continued to back it up with more weak reasoning and contradicted himself.

If it helps. Ani is very pro Slaxx and pro Gayle

Well I don't have a good read of Slaxx since he got replaced (who is his replacement, Jacob?). Gayle seems more pro-town to me to be honest.

Vote: JacobSavage

For looking for bandwagons and voting for kmd, who as far as we know, is probably a doctor.

[TheLonging]

Remind me to read better tomorrow night if I get a chance to come online.

Jacob is a great lynch. Let's get two more votes.

I still don't like your play, regardless of whether you are town or not. I don't know if this is how you usually play but whatever.

[TheLonging]

Oh look, it's Day 1 all over again

didn't farside die already? why is she back in the game? never saw that happen before

[TheLonging]

One has to remember that there is two Mafia's, and that the WIFOM gets even more confusing.

However I am just going to go with my gut feeling

Vote: Gayle

I hate votes based on gut feelings.

As far as I can see, CSL hasn't cleared anyone
And as far as too scum teams; Gayle could be scum and not have killed Farside, but the other team, may of killed her because they were suspicious of her.
Dosn't clear her of being scum

Yes CSL never cleared anyone. I'm misunderstanding the 2nd part of the post. Are you saying that one scum team tried to kill her because they were suspicious of her? One scum team can't kill the other, so you're saying she could be scum (at the time) because one scum team tried to kill her and she didn't die, so she could be on the other scum team? This confuses me.

For suggesting CSL has cleared Gayle

Unvote, Vote:KMD

Horrible vote on someone who claimed doctor for horrible reasoning

And the "gut" vote is fine, but what do you think about CSL's post that virtually cleared Farside and Gayle?

What part of that is not Scummy, using the Mod to protect one of his scum-buddy?

That was my reason for voting KMD, as for Gayle, I went on gut feeling, in hope of drawing infomation, which it did.

Mod doesn't confirm anyone as scum/town. kmd was stupid in thinking that but whatever.

@DTMaster

The Reason why I am voting KMD, is that he survived the night, surley if someone has claimed Doctor at least one of the Mafia would have the brains to kill him?
As for no counter-claim, the doctor wants to survive, so counter-claiming someone who could be town or Mafia, is not fruitfull

Yeah this was addressed, but he claimed on D2, so this is a horrible post right here.

I would point out, it is not a scummy thing not to want a counter-claim.
Kmd could have claimed doctor, to save the real doctor, allowing the doctor to save him in the night.
Far-fetched, but slightly plausable

No it's not.
This is a bad gambit, because if kmd was fake doctor surely the real doctor would have counter claimed? It's more than far-fetched.

Vote: JacobSavage

I'm still sticking with my suspicion of him since yesterday

[TheLonging]

Vote: Brutality

[TheLonging]

@Longing
Hold on a sec there, my scumdar is going off. Didn't you maintain your vote on KMD post-claim and now you are accusing Jacob of jumping on the wagon when you are guilty of the same thing?

I need to do a check but something tells me you are the one being opportunistic on the wagon here.

I believe it was a combination of a) not being here for a while after kmd claimed (a while being a day and a half?) and b) I didn't believe his claim because I never really liked his play, but it's bad regardless to lynch a doctor claim (something Gayle still wanted to do)

[TheLonging]

I don't know how kmd usually plays, but just from this thread, I never liked his play, and I didn't believe his claim, but why would we lynch a doc claim, it's bad either way. I didn't want to believe his claim because of how he played, which is why my vote was sill on him

[TheLonging]

I wasn't strong on the idea of Gayle being scum, the only thing that made me suspect she was when farside was killed, but I thought she was very pro-town, if that's what you are implying Farside

[TheLonging]

That's what I read and thought, but oh well

[TheLonging]

Oh Farside 2 you silly goose

[TheLonging]

-looks at TL's record-

Uhh, you DID lose this. Might want to change that.

I know, I forgot to change it.

[TheLonging]

I agree TQO

[TheLonging]

EBWOP: on Farside I/II being MVP

[TheLonging]

I'll /in, and make this a sole priority now (aka not lurk)