Open 191 - Paris Mafia II (Game Over!)

[flinter]

I'm so very sorry VP. I was sure I had already confirmed to you

Rhinox, could you please tell me what the use of your vote is?

[flinter]

I'm so very sorry VP. I was sure I had already confirmed to you

Rhinox, could you please tell me what the use of your vote is?

Just a random vote like everyone else will (probably) do... why didn't you (or kise) vote?

You didn't answer my question exactly, I'm afraid. I asked what the use was.

And I can't talk for Kise, but I rather wait for my vote to have some use. Before it can have any use, I must know things, which is why I ask questions.

@xofelf: Since you are the only other girl that has come up, I assume you are scum.

But, if that reasoning was true, we would be in a scumteam.
If we were in a scumteam, I wouldn't have to assume you were my buddy, therefor the reasoning doesn't work to find scum, as it ends in a contradiction.

That's why I would ask you to unvote, and find a better way to find scum.

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Looker, you are mean.

Rhinox, I dislike badly reasoned votes, esspecially on confirmed (as I see it ) townies. Xofelf's vote was bad, I point that out, I say that she should look for a better spot for it.

I don't like votes on me, because I don't like to be lynched. It is not a fun thing to do, and usually my team would do better if I wasn't lynched. So to help the town, or if I am scum, the scumteam, I should stay in the game. If the reasons of votes against me are bad, I will defend myself so that those votes will go away and I won't get lynched

[flinter]

I agree with rhinox's plan for Kise, it seems the obvious way to go.

Xscorpions play is very different from the first, he is kinda lurky and jumps the first opportunity knowing that there are mime's

unvote vote Xscorpion

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since mimes have no real incentive lynching goons, I think the other way around is more likely, goons making use of an easy target. Since we basically agreed on not lynching the easy target, the bandwagon is the next we look at.

Now if Kise is a mime,

wait. The same argument goes here. Scum doesn't want to lynch mimes, and by now they could have known.

Anyway, I think it is more in the scum's mindset to lynch easy targets, while the mimes are busy getting lynched, not lynching scum.

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Mod - If the goons die first and the mimes survive, will town win right away?

No.

if the vig dies, the mafia dies (this could be the end of day 2 soonest), would the mimes win right away?

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what is wrong with being nice, Kise? I don't think one has to be hostile to find scum, nor to argue. Arguments, esspecially in a game, should be held politely, as to avoid people having no fun.

Further, I am not so sure about Kise anymore, and Xscorpion, who has shown almost no town behaviour (he did in the other game), just hopped for the next wagon.

The problem is, I held him to be a smart guy, and I have no idea if he is scum or a mime, because it is good jester behaviour not to pull attention to yourself, but be scummy. That way, you won't ring any bells, and people think they found you. However, on this moment, I think it is more likely he is scum.

and looker, off topic, who is that in your avatar?

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@all references to previous 141:
I honestly don't know what the hell was going on in that game. From my perspective, there were about 6 mimes (all from SA), hence my withdrawal from that game. I really don't see how being in a game that didn't even get to day 2 makes me any better at telling mime from scum than anyone else?

but in that game, you had analyzed already when we were this far. Here, you have no intention of doing that, and the only thing you do is throwing your vote around, and defending yourself, basic scum behaviour.

Looker, darling, I think I have found a pretty cosy bandwagon for us two. Would you join me?

[flinter]

In that game my "analysis" was of a bunch of SA trolls.
I'm really not eager to repeat the same things I did last game, given that they didn't even help.

no dear, it is very simple.

analysis is part of your gameplay, not of the subjects of your analysis. The change in your posts (no analysis, defenses like this) have to do with a change in gameplay.

Very simply put, the change in posting style has to do with you having different motives, imo, mafia motives. In stead of trying to find scum, like there, you are here busy to avoid attention.

[flinter]

also, flinter, i very much do not like how you are cozying up to people the way you are. You have never done so before, and the way you're doing so now bleeds fake to me.

Vote: flinter

Sorry

honey

, but that just oozes scumminess at me.

It seems you are doing the same. You saw it with looker, which was because he had stated he wanted a bandwagon, without any real preference. I thought I should ask him for a bandwagon that would be good. Of course the way I asked was a little overdoing it, but when you ask someone to help you, you got to be a little nicer to them, don't you think?

and you were also in the first game, you can probably see that I'm playing in the same way. You probably could see too that Xscorpion isn't doing this. If this is all true, can you see he is likely scum too?

[flinter]

I find lookers way of coming to a lynch slightly... interesting. Lets see what comes from it.

Further, I would like to say that I don't think I'll support a kyle lynch. I don't believe it will be on scum. Kyle's actions seem more like eager town play then scumplay to me, having read a recent game where he was scum. I don't even think his play so much antitown, just not that... lucky. His vote on Sarag had good intentions, I think, and the unvote was seen his explanation nothing special. I don't see where Reck gets his lynch-eagerness from.

Seen the way Xscorpion defends, I would like to see a lynch of him, please. If someone doesn't understand why I think him scum, please ask. I would be happy to try to explain it.

[flinter]

So just to be clear, you're voting me because I haven't made an analysis of the players I find scummy yet?

I saw this one as rhetorical, and it probably is, since my answer is likely supposed to be your starting point for a defense.

The answer is: partially. You have shown no intention to find antitown players, which you did do in the previous game (so you seem to have different motives then in that game). Here, you are not sticking your neck out to find scum, but you are sitting back, out of the spotlight. You are more concerned with my attack on you and how to defend against it then you are at anything else.

And yes, I said this all before.

[flinter]

This is an excuse you just made up, clearly. Otherwise you would have posted this first, without waiting for my repeat of the case, as you claim this was your thoughtprocess all along.

But Xscorpion, it is not an explanation, it is an excuse. It also confirms that you are not scumhunting. You claim there is no difference between scum and mimes, and that because of that we should not search scum today and should rather random lynch. I rather have a better chance at lynching mafia, something you don't seem to be interested in.

As town, your first idea should be to lynch scum. This is always the same, and also here. Your excuse works even less, since if Kise is a mime, we could accidentaly lynch his buddy, and still shoot him tonight: the mimes lose.


tl;dr: Xscorpion confirms he didn't scumhunt, but there is no reason not to. He should be lynched.

[flinter]

2) All votes and unvotes must be done in bold to count. An example would be: Unvote, Vote: VP Baltar. You may also Vote: No Lynch if you please,

but this will not be an option as long as the Mime roles are still living.

Unvotes are required before you will be allowed to move your vote to another player.

yeah, that is brilliant, Xscorpion. And it by far doesn't explain why you, if you were a towny, wouldn't reflexively start to scumhunt. You didn't scumhunt because you are mafia.

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I think kise is mime, and I think people need to post more, specifically Sarag. I'll

vote: Sarag

till he comes and explains himself.

leaning*

Ah crap, I hate alts.

unvote

.

so tell me kyle, why was sarag ok to vote until you realized it was gerty? did you realize you accidentally voted your scum partner?

Rhinox, I'm sorry, but you can already know the answer to this question, while it seems a serious one. I think it is therefore wrong to imply scum motivations. (it is easier to take the obvious answer)

[flinter]

great, our scorpion has 3 votes! Seen recent evidence, I would like to see more votes. While Kise has been said to be a vig-target, and kyle is still working on his playstyle (obviously), I think there are no other interesting players to lynch.

There doesn't happen to be someone who knows scorpion well in here, right? Since what he is doing here, is scum starting out clumsily (not a lot of experience in scum-play, or generally having trouble with it), and now with his last vote trying to imply he is a mime

or: he is a mime, who started out very cleverly, without attracting too much attention but waiting for people to find him, his recent vote for looker would then be a slightly less clever and more obvious way to get more votes.

I believe that if he was a mime, his play would not deteriorate if he started out that brilliant. Making it obvious would be a definate different strategy.

As scum however, his unlucky play that made me find him could very well lead to a change in strategy. Having found out that his normal defense doesn't work, as it was shown to be scummy, the answer would be to actually deteriorate his play, hoping that we would think he was a mime.

[flinter]

I guess the last game just made me feel that scumhunting with mimes around is a waste of time :/
Hence why I'd rather wait for the scum or vig to kill one first.

This is not an option (as has been stated several times ITT), so it's even worse than an excuse not to scumhunt. Who are your scum suspects right now?

Gerty, as you picked this up, why didn't you follow this up with a vote?

I suspect on this moment that reckoner is a mime, but that is not much more then a gut feeling, though reinforced by his "plan" to no-lynch to kill the mimes first. A towny wouldn't say this, as the lynch is town's tool against the mafia. The mafia wouldn't say something that so blatantly benefits them (since the lynch is one of the two threats that the mafia has in this game), but a mime, a mime would love to put out that the mimes should be killed. What vig would suspect a mime to say that?

And a mime would be happy to out the magical words "No Lynch", since that is like a red cloth for a bull: it almost allways gets you attention. But he makes sure he looks towny by making it a "reasonable" plan, that would benefit town. So Reck is IMO clearly trying to get negative attention, but trying not to be obvious about it.

[flinter]

Flinter, why are you defending kyle and subverting my scumhunting methods?

Yes, I knew this was going to come. That was where the "I'm sorry" was for, and I have been very careful not to name the actual answer.

But I found the question to be a waste of time. Kyle had given the reason for his vote, you even included it. It was the postcount that made him pick Sarag (1 post). But Gerty did post more, so the reason was accidentaly wrong, and an unvote was the logical conclusion.

Now, if you find it scummy to vote a lurker and then unvote doing nothing (no scumhunting), then that is fine. If you find this ok, good too. But you asked for something that was pretty obvious, and so the answer could only be this. You didn't need the answer to make a decision about Kyle.

This makes that your question did fill the thread, but added little. A waste of a little bit of time. I had to say that.

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@hito. I have played with some of the players of the previous game on another forum. I know Xofelf from there. I have read quite a lot of games here by now, so I think I have a basic idea how things are done.

you misunderstand how I think about votes. Votehopping doesn't have to be a scumtell, it is the motives behind it. The slight movement of my own vote is because I tend to be careful with it. My suspicions I post, but my vote I use on the most suspicious, or noone, if I don't think it likely enough I'll vote for scum.

If you want to know who I suspect, you'll have to read my posts I'm afraid.

Summary for our replacement:

(ordered by how sure I am about it)

Kise: antitown (even if he is town, he is disrupting the town)
Xscorpion: scum
Kyle: clumsy town
Reckoner: mime

[flinter]

Scorp's not scum, he's just failtown, like I

usually

am. But we should really lynch Kyle.

Emphasis on usually...this implies that xRECKONERx is not a town in this game. Scumslip, or mime?

Wow, that's a real stretch.

if you see this, and you have read the thread where Scorp has come up a few times with

excuses

when he was attacked, when he has confirmed he had no interest in scumhunting, what he was attacked for, and his recent going all out at looker for erratic behaviour, you know you have scum trying to get away from a lynch, or a very clever mime. I have argued in an earlier post why I thought the last unlikely.

So why would you vote LOOKER of all people?

@ looker: you disappointed me I'm making a good and productive wagon, hopefully (and IMO, likely) on scum, and it is not good enough for you?

[flinter]

Please, read this. I might not be able to say it tomorrow.

About dry-fits last post. Dryfit has contributed very little throughout the game, and now this post. He claims Scorpion is his second scummiest player. He on that moment is asked to come up with something for the lynch, and possibly hammer.

What would a towny do when his second preference is preffered by the rest of the town? Work a lot to get your first preference up and maybe let this guy of the hook? Of course not, he would hammer.

Dryfit is doing the "yeah he is scummy, buuuuut that guy is scummy too" way to avoid Scorpion. If I am right and scorpion is indeed scum, I would say not Kyle, not Rhinox, but Dry-fit is his buddy.

[flinter]

@mylynes. Scorpion is scum, or playing scum. How he suddenly went into the offensive after being attacked shows this, with earlier posts.

And about directing the vig I want to say only one thing: we can't think that the scum will do the mime killing for us. Killing the mimes would make our lynches practically a lot more accurate. The town has only one weapon against mime's, and possibly 2 against scum. the vig, and the lynch and the vig.

I think that the vig should go for who

he/she

thinks is a mime. The town will

not

decide. This is because the vig (and his thoughts) are confirmed town to himself. The people talking are not. All the town can do to aid the town is to unmask mimes. But it is not a seond lynch, since it is very much possible that the vig would do better on his own.

[flinter]

ok, last one is a good point, middle one isn't: vigs are not counterclaimed, and claimed vigs are never lynched. The big benefit of the watcher knowing the vig is only in this situation

[quote="game winning strategy"[/quote]In case only one member of the mafia is left, and the mimes are gone, with the vig and the watcher still alive, the vig should be known to the watcher. Town should no-lynch, hereby ensuring that they won't accidentaly put the watcher/vig combination in trouble. Vig shoots, and the mafia shoots. If the mafia shoots the vig, the watcher will see. town wins. If the watcher is killed (just as big a chance as the vig killing the last mafia), town should go back to the old way of getting scum (lynches and kills).[/quote]

Guess we have to talk about it then. I know kise is antitown, I am not sure if he is a mime. I read this much stronger with Reck.

[flinter]

What would a towny do when his second preference is preffered by the rest of the town? Work a lot to get your first preference up and maybe let this guy of the hook? Of course not, he would hammer.

XScorp was not at L-1. I wouldn't have hammered even if he was because we had just had a flurry of posts and everyone else needed to catch up. I still want Looker to be the lynch today.

no, he wasn't at L-1.

But you didn't know at that moment, as you would have posted it, and lookers posts came after this. You reacted as in the situation where he was at L-1. And on this moment, you even completely forgot your suspicion of Scorpion.

Lets make this clear: I don't see the case on looker. I see he hops with his vote, I see he is weird.

But I have the feeling looker is often not normal, so weird doesn't bother me at all. And scummy, no I don't think looker is that.

[flinter]

Well done rhinox. I agree with looker that mylynes might very well be antitown. Depending on what scorpion is.

[flinter]

lets lynch scorpion, kill mylynes.

I'm sorry, but I continiously have less to say. It starts to bore me how this game is played.

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looker, your vote makes no sense, only if Scorpion is scum too. Mylynes didn't need to kill the wagon as scum. Mylynes, of all the people, is not that scummy, earlier mime-like.

Seriously, who lets go of someone at "L-1", claiming that after that, they wanted to get lynched (seen the posts, and his defeatism, he probably believed he was at L-1). Only someone who thinks that the current lynch is not on a mime, and going for a second chance that way. Maybe the second mime was another big wagon, if Mylynes is one.

[flinter]

this wagon is so obviously badly formed. Look at how people get on, what reasons they use. This lynch is not formed out of believe that Kyle is scum.

There was a big bandwagon on Xscorpion, based on a good case. It disappeared. ok, fine. But this wagon is not close to as well formed that one was. People just hop on. It should ring some alarmbells with you how it is formed.

Kyle is a bad lynch. This was first gut on him, now I absolutely don't like how this wagon came up out of nothing.

and did you notice? Nobody knows anymore who is going to be vigged/watched. We made chaos. Well done town. Now get your heads together.

I propose this plan: I'll choose a player who will call the target for the vig and watcher. If I'm scum, I could choose my partner to pick it, but it would me and my partner away. So even as scum I would have some incentive to pick a towny and hope for the best. By not picking the target myself I have far less (dangerous) influence.

[flinter]

These are the last 3 votes on kyle, within 2 pages. Only Reck has made comments, has investigated, and found things. He interpreted this as scummy. Reck did a reasonable job as the starter of a wagon.

But seriously, those other votes, that is not good anymore. That is bandwagonning, pur sang. Kyle is no perfect player, we all know that, and it is day one. And reck had a good case, right?

nobody is really taking responsibility here. Just look at those posts. Hito mentions he could go for a few others, Xofelf says she'll follow the plan. Both are already avoiding responsibility.

Alright, I was right to like Gerty's posting style. That last post was certainly worth the wait and my vote has served it's purpose.

Gerty, could we get you on board for a kyle wagon to save scorpion? I think we're both on the same wavelength when it comes to him and I'm good with seeing kyle go. (as I said before, a dry-fit lynch is also fine by me.)

As for the vig target, I like kise's plan that we vig/watch him if we hit a scum or mime and let him pick if we mislynch. seeing as people are generally risk-adverse, I'd be willing to bet scum-kise or mime-kise would have rather defined it the other way.

I hate to vote-hop (it's my meta to leave my vote in one place, and while I'm starting to outgrow that bad habit it still makes me feel icky because rapid-votes lose their pressuring power) but there's no sense waiting around.

unvote, vote:kyle99

I'll be up for a dry-fit switch, and maybe mylnynes, though I'm not as certain as Gerty on that one. Still, any of those three would be better than the current scorpion and looker wagons.

unvote

scorpion is town. Looker is town. Kise is still probably town.

vote: kyle99

vig: reck (gut feeling)

okay good... glad it wasn't just me

and i say go with the plan.. it looks good to me and at the moment, i can't think of anythinng better.

so

unvote, vote kyle

[flinter]

this wagon is so obviously badly formed. Look at how people get on, what reasons they use. This lynch is not formed out of believe that Kyle is scum.

There was a big bandwagon on Xscorpion, based on a good case. It disappeared. ok, fine. But this wagon is not close to as well formed that one was. People just hop on. It should ring some alarmbells with you how it is formed.

Kyle is a bad lynch. This was first gut on him, now I absolutely don't like how this wagon came up out of nothing.

and did you notice? Nobody knows anymore who is going to be vigged/watched. We made chaos. Well done town. Now get your heads together.

I propose this plan: I'll choose a player who will call the target for the vig and watcher. If I'm scum, I could choose my partner to pick it, but it would me and my partner away. So even as scum I would have some incentive to pick a towny and hope for the best. By not picking the target myself I have far less (dangerous) influence.

Agree with this except your plan.
The problem with your plan is that if you're mime, you choose a mime to pick the target, and neither of you die. Also, if you aren't a mime, you still could pick a mime by accident.

yeah, this depends a little on you people believing I'm town. I know. If I'm town, I'll choose someone I think is likely town too. (=probably not a mime, since protown players tend to get shot)

[flinter]

well, that is a possibility.

The proposal was made with two goals:

1. provide a way for a conclusive target
2. split the risk.

The same could be achieved if a lot of people are in principle ok with me picking the target. Lets say: around 4. No team could dominate then, and the vig target (who doesn't have to be lynched) is chosen early.

[flinter]

ok, hito, lets set something up then. Dry-fit is my second choice, and I like that lynch much better then Kyle's.

unvote vote Dry-fit

I hope I'll have a case later.

[flinter]

I don't have a second choice besides Looker, but Looker wants a Dry-fit lynch, so I will work against you and him.

Unvote
Vote: Kyle

talking about avoiding responsibility for your vote. This vote is hopping on the wagon before the lynch. Bandwagon with malicious intent. This further reinforces the link between dry-fit and Xscorpion. The previous time it was the other way around, then it was Dryfit avoiding Xscorpion.

Please, understand this. Vote Xscorpion, or Dry-fit, if you must.

[flinter]

Hehe...getting annoyed at me yet, Flinter?

translated "am I a mime, or am I not?". You know I was completely right, that is why you don't defend. All you are betting on is that people won't lynch you because they think you are a mime. That was the only reason to post this.

[flinter]

and you'll very rarely see me annoyed. And of all the places, not in a game.

[flinter]

He doesn't want to. This play is actually keeping him from being lynched, seen mylynes arguments for abandoning the bandwagon. Xscorpion has actually no need to play better.

3 votes for flinter choosing the vig target. 0 against. One more and I'll have to try to come up with a mime

[flinter]

yeah, you are so clear about not wanting to choose Dry-fit, that it makes me wonder why he is so special to you. Because he isn't to the rest of the game, being a lurker. You voted kyle only because "Looker voted Dryfit". Like those were the only choices.

Wouldn't the obvious answer have been staying on Looker? No, because you are trying to force a mislynch here.


@Mylynes. See the previous posts by Xscorpion. He doesn't care about getting lynched, does he? He is joking about it, actually wouldn't mind. The defeated VT, the lost scum trying to play mime, but also the mime whose only goal is to be lynched?

No Mylynes. Mimes are very concious about their own lynch. They do care. Xscorpion is not a mime.

[flinter]

vigs don't claim. With my earlier case on reckoner-mime, this is my strongest mime read.

vig watch Reckoner

In case I am not alive tomorrow anymore: Vigs don't claim. They shoot. If mafia claims vig, they get shot. Simple as that. In lylo, it could improve chances on a correct lynch (confirming the vanilla townie(s), but that is the

ONLY

time a vig ever claims. With rb'ing mimes, it is not a good idea the vig is known.

The watcher never couterclaim a claimed vig. He is worth more hidden. He claims only guilties.

Now, for the things that could bring confusion in the plan to confirm the vig to the watcher.

goons shoot the target too: no problem, one kill less. Watcher doesn't claim, and he'll have the extra information who could be another mafia. In case the mimes are gone, and only these 2 are left, watcher claims.

mimes RB the target: this one is funny. Watcher tries to get others lynched, but not these 2. Watcher can't claim, but the mime is trapped in the game and has lost if the town is continiously unwilling to lynch him. Watcher never claims his result.

tl;dr: Watcher claims only with a confirmed guilty. Vig never claims, except maybe in lylo, and watcher never claims who the vig is.

[flinter]

multiple people agreed I would say it. I did. All others don't matter, the idea was to have one definate answer who was vigged/watched.

All others are only distractions.

We need to have the watcher and the vig on one person.

That person is reckoner

whatever the lynched flips. This won't change, and tomorrow, the watcher knows who the vig is.

[flinter]

well, I probably am not allowed to say this, but:

This is brilliant! Scum cannot win, unless they kill the last mime! Scum cannot just lynch anyone anymore, and have to make sure they don't pick the wrong easy target. The mafia is in trouble, and they can't let the town solve it for them!

Now, watcher, in case you found the mime, I don't think you have to be so hasty making that public. Just keep the lynch away from them. Let the scum work for it.

I hope that everybody is happy that we in the end did have enough opinions that the vig shot who they wanted to shoot anyway.

Now, the scum. We might want to try to mislynch on purpose, but I think that tactic would better be used when only one mafia and one mime is left.

Like hito said, it is quite weird that I'm not killed. I have tried my best to actually get killed, and gerty, while playing well, did a bit of hiding. This would mean that or they had found gerty out (I doubt that) or I am wrong, or supposed to be wrong about the game.

I have had one very strong opinion, about Xscorpion: and see, I am not dead. This could explain it (WIFOM based). As such pressure could give a weird reaction. It also could have been that someone who has seen me play before somewhere else knew that I was trying to get killed

FoS xofelf

@Looker: what is the most annoying thing a town can do to you?

[flinter]

well done Xofelf. I was killed night 1 there. I think you remembered.

I love how you spin this around as fast as possible that I was trying to stop myself from being killed. As you can see in previous post, I was not the only one suprised that I'm not dead yet.

xofelf, why are you lurking through day one?
why are you suddenly very quick to react on the first attack on you?
and why is it not enough to defend, but you have to accuse the attacker of being scum?

vote xofelf

Town could have done with showing the attack was irrational. It is scum's first reaction to attack the attacker, but not do so openly

all I got was you were trying to buddy up with as many people as possible and NOT die

Seriously, I haven't changed my play over the whole game, and suddenly, suddenly you don't think I'm nice anymore. But then, do you say so, do you say I'm scum?

[flinter]

nah, we actually know he is town after the previous exchange. Sorry kyle, but you wouldn't think of doing that as scum.

[flinter]

umm... why am i the focus of so many people's attention?
Just because of something someone else said? is that really how you all play? instead of coming up with your own reasons and looking for yourself, you just use what others have said? or, you'd rather not lynch someone who has more commentary on them because it's "safer" to go with the people who don't?



Smart move people.. smart move.

I feel so sorry for you, but one thing I don't understand. You have had very little commentary on people, how can they lynch you for being different? The savest thing one can do is not attack you, since all commentary you have given was on the person starting your wagon.

And guy's, Mylynes is as towny as one can be. He is actually thinking about optimum strategies, and seen the first post, top of the page, that comes from a town perspective. Mylynes is correct that the scummiest people (reck, scorpion) are basically going freely because of the mime threat.

Looker is not mafia, that is clear too, but looker has the annoying thing that he as town is somewhat a lynch target, and he knows this. His town and mime play would be very much alike, though if he isn't confident enough, his mime play might be a bit more random.

[flinter]

Order of people I want to lynch:
XScorp > Looker > kyle99 > xofelf > flinter > hito > myself

Vote: XScorp

Xscorp > xofelf > the rest > Kyle > Looker > myself.

vote xscorp

Seriously, Looker mime I would have believed, looker-scum would be so weird!

[flinter]

Poor VP Baltar... First his game is ruined by an off site invasion that talks about the game, next try he has a scum + scumbuddy claim. I don't believe he expected it, so it is the whole thing over again: what would a good mod do?

Would he abandon it for ruining the game (of course after consulting the scum), or will he continue it with the idea that WIFOM might do well for the scum?

Of course, if the scumbuddy claim is wrong this choice is easier to make.

[flinter]

Sorry Looker, I never liked scum. I always hate playing scum on this site, it's usually pretty obvious when I am.

The one thing in the previous reasoning that is left away is what Xscorpion thought on the moment he posted this. Seen the way he implies a connection with Looker, but doesn't actually name it he is aware what he is doing. The fact that he doesn't simply call Looker scum could very well be because he wants us to "find it out", so we will believe it that it is scum slipping/giving up.

I say in this situation it is less then 50% that Looker is scum.

[flinter]

sorry, school kept me busy.

I've also lost my ideas about the game mostly. I did have a good town read on kyle, I thought, so I won't hammer, though as the situation is now, I think a kyle lynch is inevitable.

I have the feeling that scum is laughing quietly at how we are playing here.

[flinter]

Reckoner is scum for sure.

After that hammer...yeah...

Looker is probably the other one.

We very well can, Looker. We just finally lynch Scorpion, even if it was solely for the bolded part of the quoted post. If he flips scum, Reckoner is confirmed town.

vote xscorpion

[flinter]

I don't like this plan. flinter's plan ignores the fact that it's lylo.

Reck is someone I believe to be town. Xscorp is someone who I believe to be scum. He doesn´t defend the multiple points against him, and I think that Lylo is a GREAT TIME to finally lynch scum.

There was no need to wait with my vote. We all know how scummy xscorp has been, and how he got away because some people believed him to be a mime. Yesterday you were so happy to lynch kyle, and now finally we are going to lynch scum.

It is no plan, it is information. After this lynch, Reck is confirmed town. Then it is scums turn to do something.

[flinter]

O, poor scorpion. We have to be careful? If I'm town then scum only has to jump on to mislynch you?

No, it is the other way around. If I'm town, and you are too, we have already lost, because I can't see you as town. We wouldn't be able to win anymore, in Lylo, right?

Now both townies have to get on scorp and lynch this scum.

and I love how I am accused of no scumhunting by scorp

[flinter]

Opportunism:

I agree with rhinox's plan for Kise, it seems the obvious way to go.

Xscorpions play is very different from the first, he is kinda lurky and jumps the first opportunity knowing that there are mime's

unvote vote Xscorpion

Meta

@all references to previous 141:
I honestly don't know what the hell was going on in that game. From my perspective, there were about 6 mimes (all from SA), hence my withdrawal from that game. I really don't see how being in a game that didn't even get to day 2 makes me any better at telling mime from scum than anyone else?

but in that game, you had analyzed already when we were this far. Here, you have no intention of doing that, and the only thing you do is throwing your vote around, and defending yourself, basic scum behaviour.

Looker, darling, I think I have found a pretty cosy bandwagon for us two. Would you join me?

again, scum playstyle, different then previous game.

So just to be clear, you're voting me because I haven't made an analysis of the players I find scummy yet?

I saw this one as rhetorical, and it probably is, since my answer is likely supposed to be your starting point for a defense.

The answer is: partially. You have shown no intention to find antitown players, which you did do in the previous game (so you seem to have different motives then in that game). Here, you are not sticking your neck out to find scum, but you are sitting back, out of the spotlight. You are more concerned with my attack on you and how to defend against it then you are at anything else.

And yes, I said this all before.

No interest in scumhunting (confirmed by him)

This is an excuse you just made up, clearly. Otherwise you would have posted this first, without waiting for my repeat of the case, as you claim this was your thoughtprocess all along.

But Xscorpion, it is not an explanation, it is an excuse. It also confirms that you are not scumhunting. You claim there is no difference between scum and mimes, and that because of that we should not search scum today and should rather random lynch. I rather have a better chance at lynching mafia, something you don't seem to be interested in.

As town, your first idea should be to lynch scum. This is always the same, and also here. Your excuse works even less, since if Kise is a mime, we could accidentaly lynch his buddy, and still shoot him tonight: the mimes lose.


tl;dr: Xscorpion confirms he didn't scumhunt, but there is no reason not to. He should be lynched.

And that hasn´t changed through the game. Scorps play is reactive, defensive, and shows no interest in scumhunting.

[flinter]

Looker, why should I listen to what you people are saying?

which is: we need more activity! but doing little to come to a conclusion.

I see no feared quicklynch, btw.

[flinter]

Flinter's case is weak. I got scum vibes from Scorp, but I don't like flinter's weak-ass case.

yeah, me too. But I can't argue more then that he hasn't done a thing constructive, that he has expressed having no interest in scumhunting day 1.

But calling it weak is so easy. Point out why I'm wrong please. Or if that is what you want, just vote me.

[flinter]

I am very very sorry. And you probably don't believe this. But I totally forgot my role. Now I read my pm I know I read it, but with my first post here, I really believed I was town.

No wonder you thought I was town

I was so confused when I read your finishing post, VP!

[flinter]

and sorry looker

[flinter]

I did read it.

but I forgot

and VP, I would love to play your game! Could you please send me a pm when it is open for setups?

[flinter]

I'll try!

I now remember how stupid it must have seen when I said how weird it was I wasn't nightkilled, as I tried so hard to get killed...