Open 208 - Fire & Ice Mafia >Over!<

[Mindgamer]

I like the RVS.

Vote: ICEninja

Obviously Fire Mafia.

My timezone is UTC+1 / GMT+1.

[Mindgamer]

Tsk, grow some humour you guys.

Pwnman's Wiki
I am a pretty good mafia player

I don't see it. Are you scum trying to act like a VI?

DarkLightA
Mindgamer: What would you do if I voted you right now?

Nothing.

[Mindgamer]

DTMaster
@Mindgamer
I had the pleasure to mod pwnman. He is very anti-town newbie, but gut instinct says I need more time to get a better read. You should also look at join dates.

Ok then.
I find the Pwnman bandwagon very interesting btw. I want everyone who seriously thinks they have already found scum in Pwnman to raise their hands now.
*doesn't raise hand*

[Mindgamer]

Eh... yeah... I don't really see much to do, sorry. :/

My joke could be interpreted as a scumslip. I don't like how Crazy refuses to understand that.

Unvote. Vote: Crazy

Bandwagon go!

/goes back to lurking

[Mindgamer]

A big welcome to Nachomamma8. As you can see, I haven't broken my habit of excessive lurking in early game yet.

Eh... yeah... I don't really see much to do, sorry. :/

My joke could be interpreted as a scumslip. I don't like how Crazy refuses to understand that.

Unvote. Vote: Crazy
Bandwagon go!

/goes back to lurking

Text in red is joking. The rest is serious. This is important because...

DarkLightA
This is obviously a joke from Mindgamer's side.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Try to avoid jumping on EVERY joke you see, will you?

Hmm hmm. First, it's not a joke. It's just me sucking and not really paying attention to what's going on. Second, why is it OBVIOUSLY a joke. Explain what's so funny.
Your buddying attempt is noted.

ICEninja
Didn't we learn from the first time that saying blatantly stupid things, assuming people will take them as jokes, is a bad idea?

Nope, I did not learn this lesson. Quite the contrary. The joke boosted some interesting discussion and we already have people taking some serious stances about the attackers and defenders of the joke. That's great, isn't it? Progress AND humour. Now that's my idea of an awesome mafia game!

ICEninja
You then vote for the sake of bandwagon, then /going back to lurking. You have risen very high in my scum suspect list.

Interesting. Bandwagoning is pro-town imo, so I don't see what's your point here. Lurking is... sucky. I agree. But is that enough to rise 'very high' in one's scumlist? Why don't the other lurkers rise very high in your scumlist then? To me it seems like you are just picking on a bad poster. Scumpoints for you.

ICEninja
Crazy is caught in a mild contradiction for the piggy backing thing, but doesn't seem too bad for me. Lots of content and good explanation, but I really don't like how much force he puts in to his arguments.

Force is bad?

ICEninja
Darklight is

a little content shy

, but seems OK.

Most people would call that active lurking, but apparently you have a reason to be positive about DarkLightA. Which is...?

DTMaster
Actually,

the fact that pwnman took so long to answer

, then rehashed my answer should be proof that pwnman is being scummy about his reasoning.

This is relevant because?

SCOTT BROSIUS
I took a look at you in ISO and I saw nothing. Completely nothing. Start contributing please.

Vote: Scott Brosius

SaintKerrigan
This. Is. SPARTA!!!

Fixed.

[Mindgamer]

Crazy
Also, it seems to me Scott had posted more content than Sanhora, XScorpion, and probably pwnman. [and even you, before that last post.] Deer, too, is relatively low on post content. Why did you choose Scott in particular?

The funny thing is that although Scott Brosius has made a number of posts, he has not posted any content at all. All his posts are about game philosophy or unimportant facts like quote tags. Involvement in the game? Scumhunting? Nothing.

Nachomamma8
Oooh, and Mingamer? As a lurker, never push a lurker lynch. Hypocrisy is a strong scumtell.

I'm pushing a lynch now? It's just a simple vote.
As I said, it's not that Scott Brosius is lurking, but his posts are empty. That's way more interesting than just lurking,

Deer
Well, I find it very hypocritical

Parrot.

ISO Mindgamer

9- Likes RVS
48- Basically parrots my post about pwn being VI
79- Finds the pwn BW "interesting"
115- Votes for Crazy for the reason on "bandwagon go!"
147- Perhaps some content?!

So I fail to see how you can attempt to call me out for lack of participation when you have barely done so yourself. Your 2 non-RVS votes have lacked reason.

Interesting. Bandwagoning is pro-town imo, so I don't see what's your point here. Lurking is... sucky. I agree. But is that enough to rise 'very high' in one's scumlist? Why don't the other lurkers rise very high in your scumlist then? To me it seems like you are just picking on a bad poster. Scumpoints for you.

Pretty hypocritical since apparently I'm worthy of a vote yet you say lurking is not enough to rise someone to very high on one's scumlist.

This whole post is one big OMGUS. I accuse you of lurking, so you accuse me of lurking. Is that all you have to say? I'm certainly not happy with you, Scott Brosius.

DTMaster
Iceninja is definaltly not the lynch for today.

Quite an early conclusion. We have 13 days left to decide.

I don't have a meta. Trust me.
I'm completely unpredictable. So don't even bother Very Happy
I never play two games the same way.

I'm now going to OMGUS vote in an attempt to draw more attention and get myself lynched because that's what I do.

Trying to get lynched is against your win condition no matter your allignment. You're not playing to win. Stop this idiocy and pick the next 'behaviour' on your list.

[Mindgamer]

Mindgamer-pwnman = 1 Mafia Scumteam...

Interesting. What makes you think this?

Mindgamer, why Scott Brosius? Sanhora hasn't said anything with her posting, Ray hasn't said anything with his posting, Darklight hasn't said anything with his posting... Scott's actually taken positions on things, which is a hell of a lot more than you've done so far.

I thought I explained this clearly enough. Sanhora has just not posted. Scott Brosius has posted, but his posts are empty. I'm not sure what's your problem with DarkLightA. He isn't super active but I can live with what he has said up til now. And the RayFrost/DTMaster is quite active. It's noted how both Scott Brosius and you keep defending Scott Brosius with 'but others are doing it too!!!'
Scott has taken positions on things, you say? That's odd, just a page ago you acknowledged he was only talking about himself:

Scott, a comment on anything that wasn't an attack on you?

Nachomamma8-Scott Brosius = 1 Mafia Scumteam...

[Mindgamer]

ICEninja
If you insist on Mindgamer, tell us what specifically he has done that makes you feel he merits a vote.

DarkLightA
Sorry, I realized that might be unclear. It's not a ladder scale, but a category scale. I'm reciding a bit on XScorpion.

This is not an answer to the question.

Nachomamma8
It's noted that you haven't been reading the game as closely as you should be. That list was a response to XScorpion's plea for a list of lurkers...

I'm not talking about your list. I'm talking about this:

Nachomamma8
Mindgamer, why Scott Brosius? Sanhora hasn't said anything with her posting, Ray hasn't said anything with his posting, Darklight hasn't said anything with his posting...

Pwnman
Right now I actually think the people not lurking are mafia so they can mislynch and/or use the lurking to their advantage

Does this include yourself?

-----

Usually, town-scum lists are bad for the town since they give the scum information on who to kill. What makes you guys think those lists are good now that there are tow mafia factions?

I can't think of anything else to post right now so I'll just come up with a question of the day:

If you were a vigilante, who would you kill at this moment?

First to respond reveives town cookies!

[Mindgamer]

[Mindgamer]

...Bio Hazard?

He's in all my games!!!

Nachomamma8
Wait, you took that as me defending Scott Brosius? Erm, what? Again, I was just asking what made Scott special.

Yeah, I take that as a defense since I had already explained what made Scott Brosius stand out.

ICEninja
Actually it was. You did not understand the nature of my question. I was asking DarkLight if, because 2 people were lower on the list than you, if he found them more scummy than you. If he did, then why was he voting you?

You asked DarkLightA why he voted for me. Not relatively to the other players, you just asked why.

ICEninja
If you insist on Mindgamer, tell us what specifically he has done that makes you feel he merits a vote.

DarkLightA
Sorry, I realized that might be unclear. It's not a ladder scale, but a category scale. I'm reciding a bit on XScorpion.

This is not an answer to the question.

Ahaha, you little smarty-pants. Putting words in people's mouthes now?

What words?

DarkLightA
Also, use

[/ quote] Instead of [ quote]Name[/ quote]

No.

DarkLightA
Okay, that vote was meant for me to be a base in scum hunting, but as you guys seem to not like it:

Unvote

Rolling Eyes Now where do we start

Que? Who has said they don't like it? Scott Brosius. And Deer merely asked you a question. Is that enough for you to think 'well apparently the town doesn't like this soooooo'?
You do realize there are four scum in this game right? Thinking independently is the key to victory. Don't let your judgment be clouded by what others say.

[Mindgamer]

DTMaster is posting so much weak comments...

DTMaster
You started in Augest 09, this is March 10. I expected better posts then this.

Time on site =/= Quality of posts.

DTMaster
Unvote
Vote: SaintKerrigan

He is actively lurking in this game.

Use this:
http://www.msutils.net/search.php

Searched SaintKerrigan

He posted in other games, and he analyzed in other games.

Discuss

Ok, you're keeping track of SaintKerrigan's games. That's good. So you also know that when he replaced out of this game, he replaced out of all his other games as well right? (barring Chess Mafia where he will just take a break)

DTMaster
@Nacho

^^ Need I say more.

SK has been active in other games

, but claims to be busy in this game. SK also flaked out on another ice/fire mafia game (though he turned out to be town. Read mod errored open 201).

The timing of his replacement with my accusation

= very bad against SK.

@Dana
Sup

He stopped playing those games. Why are you pushing a SaintKerrigan lynch with such poor reasoning? 'The timing of his replacement with my accusation'. This implies that SaintKerrigan-scum replaced out because of one vote... what?

DarkLightA
SK wrote:
I agree that my case on Mindgamer was weak. It was an attempt to make something happen to jolt out the RVS (although at the time I agreed with my reasoning).

Wait, wait, wait... Now he's saying that he UNDERSTOOD the Mindgamer sarcasm and pointed it out just to get the game out of RVS????

He doesn't say he understood the sarcasm. Nice Straw Man.

ICEninja
Mindgamer wrote:

You do realize there are four scum in this game right? Thinking independently is the key to victory. Don't let your judgment be clouded by what others say.

Maybe I'm missing your point here, but this statement seemed to be completely irrelevant to the rest of your post, and just thrown in there.

O really? I'd say this is my best contribution to the game so far. A townie who can't think independently is worthless. It's a shame DarkLightA ignores me and follows the trend again: DTMaster attacks SaintKerrigan and DarkLightA makes a case on SaintKerrigan.

[Mindgamer]

DarkLightA
So you're saying that I have to vote someone who isn't being voted on, otherwise I'll be scum?

No.

DTMaster
Ok, now why did you attack me for this when:

a. SK's last post I analyzed was Tue Mar 09 2010 06:19:00
b. I posted at Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:57 pm
c. The replacements began Tue Mar 09 2010 21:49:00

Don't forget this one:

'^^ Need I say more. SK has been active in other games, but claims to be busy in this game. SK also flaked out on another ice/fire mafia game (though he turned out to be town. Read mod errored open 201).

The timing of his replacement with my accusation = very bad against SK.'

DTMaster
Said he had midterms on the 9th so he didn't post his catchup but had time to post on the 8th with the last analysis being on Mon Mar 08 2010 17:26:0.

Your point is?

DTMaster
No I had evidence that he was actively lurking in this game, not that he was scum who gave up. That is far more supperior to what you call my case is.

You never had evidence. Everything you said has been proven wrong. SaintKerrigan was busy and he replaced out, he wasn't active lurking.

DTMaster
before you do that again you had better attack the whole active lurking bit which is the core of my original vote on SK.

Better find a new core then.

DTMaster
Oh hay IceNinja agrees with me too, but you don't attack him. You attack the guy who put the first vote when he had evidence to push a case on SK. lol.

I don't see ICEninja pushing a SaintKerrigan lynch. lol.

DTMaster
Mindgamer's defence on SK is noted since he is chainsawing heavily on me. If SK/Replacement flips scum, it is likely Mindgamer is scum with SK because he ignored my initial vote, and only attacked my side comment (aka he ignored my full case).

So much roflcopter stuff in this part of your post. It's interesting how you're already making plans for the future. SaintKerrigan isn't even close to being lynched, but you're already talking about his flip, and the day afterwards. Why would a townie plan so much?

Unvote. Vote: DTMaster

Serious vote.

DarkLightA
Guys, read the beginning of pwnman's iso. (First 6 posts). It's clear that HE DID NOT ADAPT the theory, rather he stated it himself, and later said "and SK's is the same" not realizing that it wasn't.

Not this shit again. Pwnman didn't think logical. Now he's gone, so we don't need to think about that any longer.

Locke Lamora
-ICEninja also concerns me a bit, mainly because of an air of caution. This could just be playstyle based but I've learnt to be wary of anyone who says they don't put their vote around until they've carefully considered all the information.

I'm keeping an eye on ICEninja for the exact same reason.

Nikanor
Bio Hazard has been prodded.
Now searching for a replacement for Crazy.

At least that means more awesome replacement fluff, right?

Yes! And the more replacement flavour I invent, the crazier my imagination must become to create new ideas. ~Nik

----------

Hmm, this is not really a very exciting game. Let's put some thoughts into this game.

If you were a daytime Cop, who would you investigate right now? And why?

I want everyone to answer this question. No cookies.

[Mindgamer]

Vote: Deer

What happened to your suspicions of Crazy and Mindgamer?

I think both of them defended themselves fairly well. Mindgamer more than Crazy, just because he's posted more.

Activity is a town tell?

ICEninja
I'm not sure if this is a strange way to rolefish, or if it could actually help at all.

Will it help? Only one way to find out. But I see you're not interested in participating in initatives that could help town.
Explain how this question could be used for the purpose of rolefishing.

DarkLightA
I tend to be the D1 lynch, so I try for the town's sake to avoid that now....

Links to games where this was the case, please.

DarkLightA
About Deer:
I don't know.. Sure, he's riding on the wave of the others, pointing out the obvious. But scum? I don't know.

After 12 pages there is no such thing as a 'I don't know.'. You have a town, scum or neutral read. Which is it? If you really don't know, you should read Deer in ISO and form your opinion.

XScorpion
Mindgamer: RedCoyote said he did not like Ice's stance against DTM, yet you are the one actually voting for him. Why do you think RedCoyote considers Ice scum and not you then?

This seems like a question for RedCoyote. It looks like ICEninja's opinion on Pwnman makes the difference.

XScorpion
@Mindgamer:I'd investigate StK/danakillsu

It's the reason why that is important.

Scott Brosius
As for mindgamer's question, I would probably investigate DTMaster, as he has been participating the most

and investigating a talkative player is better than taking a shot in the dark with a lurker.

Ok, but why would it be a shot in the dark to investigate a lurker? I'd say it's the other way around. It's hard to get a read on players that don't post much (eg lurkers), so investigating them would give you the info you need.

Nachomamm8
I can't see myself jumping on the Deer wagon; so far, he's playing exactly how he was in Newbie 869. I'd like to see him step it up a little bit though; he's someone I'm going to be watching Day 2.

Meta'ing on ONE game?

Bio Hazard
Page 6: Calls SC down for "no content," which is really hypocritical,

not to mention untrue.

O really? Please give me Scott Brosius's content up to that point.

[Mindgamer]

DTMaster
Define to me what you would call active lurking.

Posting without producing content.

DTMaster
You even admitted to SK posting elsewhere.

Admitted? I really don't like your choice of words here.

DTMasterI find it fascinating that you dislike my pressure on SK. Yes you showed me that SK replaced out of every game except for his modding duties. Hence I unvoted since this is a sign that SK was busy.

However, my case was valid given when I made it, I did it before SK's replacement.

This looks like a retreat of your case. Your case 'was' valid? That's news! Not long ago you said SaintKerrigan's replacement timing actually strenghtened your case.

DTMaster
I also find it fascinating that in this entire argument you never once said I was scummy. Here you are arguing against me, voting me, but at no time did you call me scummy

You are scummy.

DTMaster
Why are you so concerned about my push on SK's wagon given that she wasn't close to a lynch.

Because it's my duty to hunt scum.

DTMaster
You think I'm scum right? Hence the vote? Why are you so concerned about people's scum list again? This reads as: fishing for people's town list while attacking me. Cop investigation lists = gut scum lists = townie targets for scum.

Actually, being a good cop is not about investigating suspects. It's about investigating people who are hard to get a read on. Is it bad to talk about people who are hard to get a read on? That would take the discussion take to a new level, which is needed imo. Let's face it: We haven't achieved anything with our current discussions yet.

DTMaster
Blablabla dropped my case after SK quit blablabla

SaintKerrigan replaced out in post 238. In post 240 you indicated in response to Nachomamm8 that you were still supportive of your 'active lurking' case.

RedCoyoto
You really need to offer up at least two people you are comfortable with lynching today, one or two people you don't feel comfortable lynching... etc.

DTMaster is my first choice, obviously. I will do a reread of the game tonight and present my Top2/Top3 scum list afterwards. However, I won't give a Top3 town list like you are proposing. Easy nightkills.

[Mindgamer]

DTMaster
You are seriously back tracking in our discussions right now . You say there isn't anything substantial to analyze, but at the same time call me out on being scummy.

I said this game wasn't exciting, not that there's not anything to analyze. Strawman much?

DTMaster
Let me ask you this: Why are you complaining about this when you aren't productively scum hunting/attacking me right now?

I'm not attacking you? Explain.

DTMaster
you say there is an issue about people who you can't get reads on.

No, I didn't say that. What the heck?

DTMaster
Your question = laziness.

You're right, I should stop asking questions. /sarcasm

DTMaster
I've unvoted to allow Dana to speak up and SK demonstrated that he replaced out in all his games. Hence my: oh, halo of replacement I take back my original case.

Repeat: In your first post after the replacement you still supported your case.

DTMaster
Yes until you pointed out SK replaced out of all his games where I shortly unvoted . Hello, earth to mindgamer, am I still pushing for an SK/Dana lynch right now?

It was you who came up with the idea of tracking SaintKerigan because you saw he was active in other games. Despite taking the effort to follow him when he was active in this game, you stopped this when he replaced out? Why didn't you check his other games then? I shouldn't have needed to point that out.

ICEninja
ONE POST gave me a town read. Everything else makes me feel like he's scum. That one post gives me pause to see him lynched, but other than that I feel like Mindgamer is probably one of the best lynches for today.

I don't need to point out anything

, because I've mentioned more than once that I find him scummy, and I've also called him the second best lynch for today. This is not fence sitting, this is not backtracking. This is just questioning my previous (and current) read on him because he posted something that made me feel somewhat better about him. One post isn't enough to reverse the case against him, however, so my scum read on him stands.

Nope, let's base our votes on 100% gut. Epic.

ICEninja
OK so I did a re-read of deer in ISO, and I see a lot of the points against him.

Which points exactly?

ICEninja
I currently stand at DarkLight and Mindgamer roughly equal, mostly because of things I've already said about DarkLight and because

I really like the points DT brought up about Mindgamer

. XScorpion and deer follow for doing similar things.

To my knowledge I have been attacking DTMaster and he has defended himself, not the other way around. What's up?

----------

These last posts of ICEninja are very suspicious. He is doing almost nothing and only agree'ing with other peoples case. 'Hmm yes I agree Deer is scummy'. 'Hmm yes I agree Mindgamer is scummy'. He doesn't even specify the points he likes, vague ftw. His own 'hunting' is based on gut and gut alone...

I don't like the discussion between Locke Lamora and DarkLightA btw, in particular this part:

DarkLightA
In my games I tend to not really care about the other players' opinions about me. I'm more focussed on using different ways to find scum

This is a town statement imo. A townie is more interested in scumhunting than their own reputation. But Locke Lamora follows it up with this:

Locke Lamora
Are you more worried about being another D1 lynch than you are about catching scum?

This is about the exact opposite of what DarkLightA has said. It feels like you're trying to get DarkLightA to say something.

----------

Lynch candidates.
As I already pointed out, I don't like how ICEninja agrees with just about every scumcase without adding a comment or critisizing it. Also, his gut feeling about me makes me go 'wut?'. ALL my posts give him a scummy feeling, but there's ONE vote that's not so bad, so he doesn't really know what to do. Sounds like scum keeping their options open.
I'm willing to lynch ICEninja.

DTMaster... I think he's playing bad but I'm also asking myself if a scum would be StrawMan'ing me this bad. He is also offering decent content so I'll let him go for today.

I didn't really give Deer much attention but in ISO it becomes clear his scumhunting is non-existant. He only gives a few comments without actively participating in the game. Willing to lynch.

Not willing to lynch DarkLightA.

Scott Brosius is gone?

Unvote

I'll make my final vote tomorrow. I'm too tired right now.

[Mindgamer]

Short post since I don't have much time.

Locke Lamora
If you genuinely think that DLA is more concerned with scumhunting than what people think of his votes,

I think he's more concerned with what people think of his scumhunting than he has confidence in his own scumhunting abilities.

----------

DTMaster is apparently more interested in repeating the same things over and over again instead of having a good discussion. Fine, you win.

And btw.

DTMaster
Also, what a weak way to jump off your DTM vote in the end. I haven't produced content? If anything you should be getting strong reads off me in our exchange. I've definitely had strong stances throughout this game. You can sum this up quite nicely as:

Dude, I said you were offering decent content. Stop this extreme strawmanning...

----------

I see Deer is probably going to get lynched at this point. However, I support the deadline extension since I haven't read the last page very well and there seems to be a lot of discussion going on. I have acces to a computer at 16:50 UTC so I will deliver the hammer in case we don't get the extension. This will give Deer the chance to claim in the rare situation he is actually the doctor.

[Mindgamer]

...

I so hate it when I post in the wrong game -_-

The post in question has been deleted. ~Nik

[Mindgamer]

I'm a bit busy at the moment so I don't have the time to make a reply (will happen later today), but I just have to say that I find it extremely funny how people don't notice that the deadline has been extended, even after ICEninja quoted Nikanor's announcement about it.

Seriously, if you don't notice this while it's in front of your nose, then I'm seriously doubting your abilities to notice scumtells. I suggest people start to read better.

[Mindgamer]

Actually, that is a pretty awkward statement, DarkLightA. You're talking about how his claim can protect him from scumkills, but as a scum he would already be protected from scumkills. Your theory is definitely written from a town perspective. That's a scumslip, since it involves having information. Although there are two scumfactions in this game (which makes knowing DarkLightA's alignement impossible), I feel this is way more likely to come from scum than town.

The opposite of what you said? So it's coming from a scum perspective? Not true. Lynch all liars.

I'd like to hear the opinions of the other players on this.

[Mindgamer]

@ DTMaster
I'm not defending Deer, I'm voting him. I don't get what you're talking about.

@All on DLA's Wagon:

I don't understand why everyone's saying I need to post NOW or anything, but I certainly think it's time to

unvote

. I'll have to iso DarklightA to see whether I find him scummy enough to lynch even near a deadline.

Post made at 10:37 AM.

He's definitely worth lyching. His vote jumps around a lot with no apparent reasoning behind it at all, he gets off topic a lot, and he tries to lynch someone he doesn't find scummy at all, and in fact finds pro-town simply because it's near the deadline. I'll

vote: DarkLightA

Post made at 10:42 AM.

Look at how long it took Dana to make his grand decision... THIS is the type of company you're sharing on your stupid, meaningless, mislynch wagon.

I noticed this too. Danakillsu is pretty detailed about his opinion. Let's see:
1. Vote jumps around without reasoning.
2. Goes offtopic a lot.
3. Tries to lynch someone he doesn't find scummy.

He discovered all this and made his post in a time span of five minutes. Danakillsu is either Superman, or he had already made his conclusion before he started ISO'ing Deer. That's really bad, and very likely to come from scum.

Yeah, I was so into the whole thing of fire+water cancel that I forgot completely about that. Well, I guess the night will tell then...

...
I can actually buy this reasoning.
It seems to me people are voting DarkLightA because of posts like this: Bad play. However, we want to lynch scum, not bad players. So I want people to change their vote to their second lynch candidate. If that doesn't happen, the DarkLightA lynch is almost guaranteed because of general lazyness. I have a very strong belief a DarkLightA lynch will result in a town flip.

-----------

Some more mentions:

The last time RedCoyote speaks about DarkLightA is on the 13th. Today he suddenly votes for the DarkLightA wagon without giving any reason. Banana cream pie?

Scott Brosius, the last time you posted something substantial was on the 9th. Do you still support the DarkLightA wagon with the new information? What are your thoughts on Deer's claim?

Bio Hazard
'I will be looking at DarkLightA and deer in my next posts.' ~March 14th
'I'll be looking at DLA in my next post.' ~March 16th
Come on!

XScorpion, in your last post you said you didn't like how Danakillsu jumped on the Deer wagon without providing and original accusations. What are your thoughs on Danakillsu's 5-minute analysis on DarkLightA?

----------

Unvote. Vote: ICEninja

I'm also willing to lynch Danakillsu because he has actually shown scummy behaviour instead of bad play.

[Mindgamer]

An ICEninja lynch is obviously not going to happen.

Unvote. Vote: Danakillsu

L-1. Claim.

[Mindgamer]

Good first day and night.

However, this shouldn't have happened. The official Wiki Fire & Ice Mafia rules state that the Mafia groups can't nightkill eachother. I guess we'll just move on with this slightly altered version of the game then. I'm not complaining.

----------

@ Scott Brosius
Yes, a good plan. If Deer is not the Doctor, the true Doctor can claim now. If no one counterclaims, Deer is cleared. That's not so bad, since Deer is quite suspicious now having survived the night. If someone counterclaims, we know Deer to be scum. We can then lynch him and we'll have eight players in Night two with only one scum left to kill. That means we can make two mislynches in our search for the final scum. Awesome!

Scum fakecounterclaiming Doctor will not happen, since they would be lynched the next day, which means they would lose the game since there is only one scum of each group left.

[Mindgamer]

Pff, finally the end of a very busy week. I apologize for my lack of participation.

I see a heated discussion between RedCoyote and Scott Brosius. RedCoyote makes an attack, and all Scott Brosius has posted since then is defending himself and counterattacking, including OMGUS vote. I didn't like Scott Brosius Day 1 and I certainly don't like him now either.

Vote: Scott Brosius

More content tomorrow. I don't have a clear mind right now.

[Mindgamer]

First, all this 'likely fire' and 'likely ice' isn't very helpful at all. We should just continue to hunt scum like we did and not be specific. I believe this has already been said but it's worth repeating.

Nachomamma8
I think it's also worthy to note that he outright defended Dana in ISO 15: "I have played in a few games (Mafia 103, another game I can't remember) where danakillsu replaced in with a similar playstyle. He/she has always proved to be relatively useless, was town both times. So I don't think lynching him/her would be helpful or give us any information. I am fine with my vote where it is.".

Although I like attacks on Scott Brosius, this defense could also come from a townie who wants to share his knowledge on Danakillsu's behaviour.

Hmm, I don't have much else to say. That being said, I can't really see what's the case on RedCoyote at the moment. Can anyone summarize it for me?

[Mindgamer]

Just letting you know I'm still here. I have a lot on my mind at the moment but I will post tomorrow.

[Mindgamer]

Ok, what I see is that RedCoyote started some kind of RedCoyote vs Scott Brosius duel. I don't see why RedCoyote-scum would put himself in such a position. Also, the summary you guys gave me doesn't convince me at all. RedCoyote changed his mind so he is scum? Give me a break. If RedCoyote can explain decent reasoning for his change (which he can), then it's perfectly acceptable for me.
This does not mean I'm defending RedCoyote, this means I think the wagon is crap.

Kthxbye
Vote: Nachomann

I don't like DLA's 'read' on him. It's a connection vote more than anything.

After 20 pages you step forward with a 'connection' vote? Don't you think we have much more information to go on?

XScorpion
Suppose RC is scum. Let's break that ISO down line by line.
Translation
Translation

I'm not sure what the purpose of this post is. With a little imagination, I can translate even the most protown post into scumthoughts. I don't see how this is supporting the RedCoyote case at all, it looks more like an easy way to throw more suspicion on RedCoyote. Scumpoints for you.

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TheLoneWolf No Lynch Plan

Disagree. Crosskilling scum for an easy town win? That's absurdly optimistic. We are with eight townies at the moment, and it's not an easy task to find the mafia. What makes you think that the scum factions, now consisting both of only one person, will have more succes in finding scum? The most likely scenario is the death of two townies. No vote information, no lynch information, nothing.

Oh btw, mountainous 7 townies vs 1 scum isn't that bad at all. Especially not with the info we have from the specific fire/ice attacks on Day 1.

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TheLoneWolf
Yeah we'll be right back where we started, but we'll have an idea of the scum's personalities, like DTM said, if they both go for the doctor they aren't playing like a vig anymore.

Which is useful because...?

RedCoyote
If you think, as Mindgamer does, that we should just look for scum period, then that's something completely different.

I don't think fire/ice hunting specific isn't useful at all, but it should be a backup, not a main tool for scumhunting.

Kthxbye
Vote: Nacho

Before you ask, it's mostly gut based on how I read through the dead scum's postings. Plus, I can do pretty much whatever I want since I'm the Doc and am most likely a talking dead man. Wouldn't it be great if scum didn't kill me tonight though and I got set up as false claiming tomorrow? *laughs evilly* I'm betting they couldn't pull it off even if they tried.

Again, after 21 pages you can do much better than this. And you can't do 'pretty much whatever you want', because you need to help your faction win. Your personal survival =/= your win condition. Start scumhunting.

[Mindgamer]

*gets hit by three prods*

Nachomamma8
@Everyone: Top fire read, top two Ice reads. I've already given mine.

Scott Brosius is my top suspect and he seems to be 'fire' so he's my top fire read.
XScorpion is also becoming more and more scummy (I already thought this before the XScorpion wagon begun, btw. I read but I just don't have the time to make a post). He started this game with very weird behaviour, stating he played no two games the same way. But his behaviour has reverted back to 'normal' again. When I take a closer look the goofyness stopped after Night 1. Is he annoyed now that he lost his scumpartner?

ISO 19
You might want to take a read of Open 205 and see if my play thus far is much different.

ISO 38
and LoneWolf for trying to convince town to go along with an anti-town plan on voting.

Open 205 started out with a plan from Mykonian. The plan was very anti-town and he was bandwagon'd for it. However, at the end of the game Mykonian was revealed to be a townie. XScorpion was a player in this game and he remembers this game, as proven by his reference. How can TheLoneWolf possible be XScorpion's TOP ice read for an anti-town plan alone when just a few weeks ago it was proven that bad plans aren't necessarily scummy?

ISO 32 is still crap btw.

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Well, that post took most of the time I had and I haven't even responded to anything beyond page 22 yet. I'll try to make another post later today.

[Mindgamer]

Couldn't find the time do do another post. However, I'd like to point out that deadline is in four days. It's time to get serious about our votes.

I see that Nachomamma8, XScorpion and Scott Brosius are our most 'popular' candidates for today. I support a XScorpion/Scott Brosius lynch, and I don't support a Nachomamma8 lynch. Reasoning on Nachomamma8 and other will be posted tomorrow.

Everyone, post your lynchlist before we have to resort to a last-minute convenience lynch.

[Mindgamer]

Interesting. On Day 2 I was going to explain how TheLoneWolf was my biggest town read until real life interrupted me.

First, I don't understand Parama's reasoning here. If we learned anything from this flip, it's that we shouldn't rule anyone out based on previous attacks of the dead scum. Bio Hazard HAMMERED his buddy while he could've perfectly attacked DarkLightA instead. How come you still think players can be ruled out on the basis of a few silly votes?

XScorpion hasn't said anything about me all game along but now suddenly he claims I'm his #1 suspect. Huh? Let's see what he has to say.

Apologies to RedCoyote for thinking that he was fire. No hard feelings?
Well, I did get Wolf's alignment wrong, but at least I called him out as scum (hehe).

Although Fishy does seem like the obvious choice today, I'm looking at Mindgamer and I see some interesting things...
ISO 18:

The opposite of what you said? So it's coming from a scum perspective? Not true.

Lynch all liars.

Then yesterday Mindgamer calls Nacho town. Talk about a change in opinion.

This is obviously a joke from Mindgamer's side.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Try to avoid jumping on EVERY joke you see, will you?

ISO 19:

I have a very strong belief a DarkLightA lynch will result in a town flip.

Talk about obvious buddying here.

Topped with Mindgamer's attacks on DTM on day 1, I think Mindgamer is more likely than Fishy to be scum.

Vote: Mindgamer

I won't vote for Fishy until I hear what he has to say about "the final scum."

The Lynch All Liars comment was aimed at DarkLightA. You called Nachomamma8 on LAL, I didn't. As he said, he just changed his read. You were actually the only one to call Nachomamma8 a flat out liar. Why do you think I would support your silly claim when I said I thought Nachommam8 was town?
Your 'change in opinion' is more applicable to you since you change me from 0 to top scum read. Hypocrycy much?

I called town on DarkLightA. I also called town on Nachomamma8. The one is 'obvious' buddying and the other isn't? Strange reasoning.

I attacked DTMaster on Day 1. So? Is it scummy to attack players? I usually attack players because that's, you know, part of scumhunting. If you had a problem with it, why didn't you object to it Day 1 but instead bring it up Day 3? I don't understand at all.

From my eyes every case on me would be shit of course but this case is really sucky. It feels a lot like OMGUS since I outted my suspicions on XScorpion. Oh btw, what happened to those other people with a scumread on XScorpion? Nachomma8 had XScorpion as top ice read and is dead now. TheLoneWolf, a player who was searching for ice scum and had a topread on XScorpion, is dead now as well. Just saying.

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RedCoyote last ice scum? Possible, I'll have to read more. What I don't like is this 'RedCoyote can't be ice scum because he would never put himself as fire suspect together with Scott Brosius'. I think this is actually quite possible. Let's imagine RedCoyote is ice scum and he actually has a fire read on Scott Brosius. This read is just as genuine as if he would be town, and I can see him wanting to get rid of the last fire scum. If Scott Brosius would be lynched and flip fire, RedCoyote would be the big hero. If Scott doesn't get lynched however, Fire-Scott would not nightkill RedCoyote because RedCoyote claimed to give his life for the lynch of Scott Brosius.
I'm not saying this is what happened, I'm just showing that RedCoyotoe shouldn't be ruled out because of his Scott initiative.

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That's it for now, my time is up. But I would like to ask Parama to start scumhunting and stop clearing people based on votes and scumlists Day 1. Bio Hazard hammered his buddy, do you need any more proof that your strategy is invalid? Also, reasoning like '100% townwagon on Nachomamma8 is impossible!' is just wrong. Mafia games are not that simple.

Vote: XScorpion

[Mindgamer]

An offsite game just finished and as usual all my reads were wrong once again. Kowabunga.

If everyone is so sure Fishythefish is the remaining scum, it is probably true. The fact that I have a scumread on XScorpion makes him practically confirmed town since I'm always wrong, lol. My case was weak anyway.

Unvote

I'll do as you say. Although I think the analysis isn't 100% foulproof, it makes sense. All I know is my scumhunting abilites are not good enough to be trusted yet. I'll be going back to Newbie games after this game.

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Defending is still a thing I can do of course.

I didn't notice Mindgamer until recently because on day 1 Mindgamer seemed pretty town, but then after Darklight died night 1 Mindgamer suddenly became the #1 lurker, which prompted me to read him in ISO. I also find it highly suspicious that Mindgamer's first post today is an OMGUS vote in response to me calling him out. Keep in mind this is his first post in SEVEN DAYS.

Perhaps I didn't say it explicitly in this game, but real life punched me in the face so I had to replace out of half my games and post only occasonally in the games I continued in. I still post content.
As I said, I attacked you at the end of Day 2 and now you're attacking me. You're the one OMGUS'ing, not I.

As he said, he just changed his read. You were actually the only one to call Nachomamma8 a flat out liar.

No, DTM called him on it first. Nice try.

Whatever. Point is I didn't call him a liar so obviously LAL doesn't apply.

You didn't buddy Nacho because you made a grand total of seven posts on Day 2, and the only one that even mentioned Nacho was your last post before he died, simply saying that you think he's town.

This is the only time in the entire game where you say you think he's town

; on day 1, your only view of Nacho is:

Nachomamma8-Scott Brosius = 1 Mafia Scumteam... Cool

That was an ironic reply to Nachomamma8 who called me scum with Pwnman without giving reasoning. 'Mindgamer-pwnman = 1 Mafia Scumteam...'

Mindgamer, you realize you are my #2 lynch behind Fishy, right?

Yeah, so?

[Mindgamer]

I'm willing to do a reread and build a case on the person I think is the second ice scum. But as I have little time, I will only do that if you guys are actually open to it. If you will stick to your 'lol lol Mindgamer defended DarkLightA lol lol' failcase no matter what happens, there's no point.
Your choice... continue or quit.

Btw, just for the record, I think RedCoyote is the second ice scum. RedCoyote has never explained his town read on Scott Brosius, and now he suddenly goes to 'I won't vote Scott!'. It makes no sense at all. He's also frequently speaking about the thoughts of the second scum, most noteable 'the ice scum did not expect TheLoneWolf to be fire either!'.
But like I said, your choice on whether I should spend some time and effort on my reread or not.

[Mindgamer]

Been too busy to do a reread. I will do so today (get hyped :p).

Still haven't heard Scott Brosius's opinion, so I will assume he is willing to reconsider his vote.

[Mindgamer]

I haven't done a reread. lol.

Real life is just more important and to be honest I'm losing interest in Mafia overall. It doesn't help that I just KNOW you will vote me regardless of what I come up with.

Go ahead and lynch me. It's just a game after all.