Open 243 - Polygamist Mafia (Endgame)

[Hinduragi]

Unvote

You know the drill, I'll be rereading and all that fun stuff. On another note, lol at being teamed with Xscorp and DMSIS(No roleclaims like last time, please) being in the game. It's like deja vu....

[Hinduragi]

...noone hammer until my re-read. Apparently this game only lasts two days so I'd rather not have two people killed off before I'm ready to say my part.

[Hinduragi]

Xscorp, unvote nopoint for a while. On ISO'ing him alone, I'm pretty sure the dude is town. I'll explain later after my re-read.

[Hinduragi]

Also, you don't necessarily have to answer there but I suggested an idea in our QT.

[Hinduragi]

Yeah, I'm confirming this after my re-read.

If scum have no NK like Gandalf said earlier, why aren't we voting no lynch?

[Hinduragi]

Aww, that sucks. Ok, this is only 19 pages which is a relief for me since I last had a 50 page re-read. I can have this done by tomorrow.

[Hinduragi]

If you didn't notice, I'm the one who is his lover and I asked him to unvote, one of the main reasons being so people wouldn't hammer?

Fun fact: I found scum.

I lol'd. Nice try though.

[Hinduragi]

For future reference, a well-reasoned hammer isn't a scumtell, mothrax. Why are you giving me town points when I haven't even read the game?

[Hinduragi]

Dude, it's so fucking obvious. I'm only on page 7 and I'm already thinking nopoint/moth/gandalf/holycon scumteam. We'll see how it plays out. Go ahead and vote. I will be able to finish this re-read by tonight.(Thank you guys for avoiding walls) Again, to everyone else, don't hammer until I'm done reading.

[Hinduragi]

I was saying if you had come in an hammered Hindur, it would have looked bad because as you said you hadn't read the thread... apparently I am having trouble communicating tonight.

Looking bad aside, how does it give me town points?

Quotes fixed

[Hinduragi]

So, then, who do you think is scum? Also, I'm getting town points from the guy voting for my lover. What is up with that? ._.

[Hinduragi]

Oh my god, this game is funny. I have never lol'd so hard when rereading a game of mafia. Unfortunately, due to a high level of VI activity in the game, I'm going to take until tomorrow for my analysis, which is being done while I reread. Don't count on being able to hammer tonight, Gandalf. I know I said tonight, but I didn't think Shotty would pop in with the beanman vote and then you/holycon would follow as well as the raivann wagon and all the "Your partner is town but I'm going to vote you" content.

Nopoint, supporting your own lynch is anti-town, but not scummy. Stop doing it. You're playing against the town win condition. Town tries to prevent their lynch in favor of lynching scum. It's great that you like to generate info, but take into account that we have only TWO DAYS of lynching. This means if we waste a lynch today, we're in LyLo. Stop trying to generate info and start trying to play some mafia.

[Hinduragi]

I'm just posting these for future reference for me.

Pairs

Shotty/AKR Pair

Beanman

Hinduragi/XScorp Pair
Nopoint/

Raivann

mothrax Pair
Nacho/

ZazieR

bv310 Pair
Bunnylover/Pieman Pair
gandalf/holycon Pair

Wagons

Shotty Wagon

drmyshottyizsik (6 [L-1]) : nopointinactingup, PieMan, XScorpion, holycon, gandalf5166, Nachomamma8
Raivann (2) : AKnottedrope, BunnyLover
PieMan (1) :

Raivann

mothrax
holycon (1) :

Beanman

Hinduragi
nopointinactingup (1) : drmyshottyizsik
Not voting:

ZazieR

bv310

Pieman Wagon

PieMan (5) : Nachomamma8, XScorpion,

Raivann

mothrax, gandalf5166, drmyshottyizsik
Raivann (3) : AKnottedrope, BunnyLover, holycon
nopointinactingup (1) : PieMan
holycon (1) :

Beanman

Hinduragi
drmyshottyizsik (1) : nopointinactingup

Not Voting (1) :

ZazieR

Nopoint Wagon

nopointinactingup (6) : AKnottedrope, PieMan, Bunnylover, Nachomamma8, drmyshottyizsik, XScorp
drmyshottyiszik (1) : nopointinactingup
PieMan (1) : gandalf5166
XScorpion (1) : mothrax

Not Voting (5) : bv310, holycon, Hinduragi

[Hinduragi]

XScorpion + Hinduragi

Nacho + bv310

(Thanks, gofarman, took out WIFOM although this was my biggest town-read anyways)

AKR + Shotty

nopointinactingup + mothrax

Gandalf + holycon

Bunnylover + PieMan

Vote: Pieman

XScorp, I think we should be going for this guy's lynch. Nopoint is anti-town but I still don't think he's scum.
Gandalf, go ahead and drop the hammer before XScorp can respond to me about unvoting if you want to. I'll be happy to lynch you D2.

In other word, if I was scum I wouldn't have made it that easy for you . I just want to bandwagon. Why no point ? must you ask. I've explained #108

I usually to bandwagon on random people before I have real reasons. And yeah, I "just want to bandwagon" =).You guys can bandwagon me if you like (=. It's good to be the center of focus once in a while *narcicist evil laugh*.

Nacho, Gandalf/Holy is probably town (=.
I actually have a town read on XScorp so far, but a strong scum read from the Bean dude.
So UNVOTE: VOTE: Beanman

Nopoint is an idiot. "Since if I'm scum, 'being ok' with a wagon is not detrimental to the town"
The hell? Nopoint is a VI, everyone, let's chillax and look at the real scum. I'm not really 100% on it but, hell, as scum, this play makes no sense no matter how smart you are.

Idk, you see you are a really good player, but bean he's just acting so scummy man. I'm up for either a nopoint lynch or a bean lynch,,, but I get no scumness from you, but I think thats because you are so good XS

...LOL. Is everyone going to try and kill me or Xscorp for the simple reason that "Your partner looks town but you're scummy. I'm going to go for your lynch. Anyways, I'm going to just kill off your partner indirectly like this even though he looks town". Anyways, as much as AKR is lurking, Shotty is playing his town game because his reads are on people(When he isn't doing OMGUS, which happens alot to him) actually being scummy instead of VI-ey. (After playing so many games with him, I'm confident I can read him properly as town.)

Quit trying to make it look like we're scumbuddies shotty >.> vote: shotty

And this kind of nervous behavior is why Gandalf is scummy.

Raivann opposed Pieman/Bunny too. Raivann/Nopoint are not aligned with Pieman/Bunny. Knowing this, we lynch Pieman/Bunny first, because they're really obvious scum and Moth/Nopoint next because they're really smart scum(If Pieman/Bunny flip town...LOL@Raivann on page 12).

Bunny is scum for not giving out opinions and preferring to "let others scumhunt for me" then hopping onto a Raivan wagon. Also, he active lurked hard in his earlier post. Gave us nothing but speculation. Asking someone if they gave everyone else town points is not scumhunting; it's just something that's supposed to look like content. 'Grats to Nacho for noticing the active lurking thing earlier on in the game.

Pieman is obvscum slipping under the radar. If he isn't scum, nopoint is. All evidence points to this being true including Vote Count Analysis as well as him going for easy lynches such as Shotty/nopoint(Switching off of nopoint's wagon when he saw it wasnt going anywhere, switching onto shotty's as he thought it would take off, switching back onto nopoint's wagon when it started going again(Lol'd at this 2nd re-vote he did)). Town, we've got this game won. Pieman(Bunnylover and his scumminess included) is more likely to flip scum than anyone else; Let's lynch him.

Game over, mafia. It was nice playing with you.

[Hinduragi]

No. I want to talk about not having nopoint lynched.

[Hinduragi]

I'd rather lynch the guy who's looking scummy as hell than the guy looking anti-town.

[Hinduragi]

@Pieman: I never said my read changed. His partner just ruined any chance I had at justifying XScorp should've unvoted at that time.

[Hinduragi]

Gandalf/Holycon. If Bunny/Pieman flip town, I'd go for nopoint/mothrax.

Bunny, you do realize gofarman confirmed Nacho as town. I'm ready to see your lynch through. I based my entire vote on your play in this game.

Bunny is scum for not giving out opinions and preferring to "let others scumhunt for me" then hopping onto a Raivan wagon. Also, he active lurked hard in his earlier post. Gave us nothing but speculation. Asking someone if they gave everyone else town points is not scumhunting; it's just something that's supposed to look like content. 'Grats to Nacho for noticing the active lurking thing earlier on in the game.

Where do you see "Bunny is scum for not playing this like other games" in this post? Also, you haven't given opinions/views on anything. "Hindu may be scum. Are you also giving everyone else town points?" largely doesn't look like anything to me. It's not an opinion but just speculation.

Ok Nopoint, the reason my vote is on you is because of your previous partner Raivann.
Sorry that you had such a terrible partner, but he just gave no justification to his votes whatsoever, and then when questioned, he never answered.

Raivann replaced out, hence why he never answered. I don't see how this is justification for voting. Explain your vote, don't fill the post explaining your vote with questions to the person you're voting, and don't fill it with some fluff. I want to see opinions on who is scum and why from you. If you can't do that, I'm inclined to think you're scum. Letting others do scumhunting for you is not a valid excuse; Jumping onto a wagon after saying that is just scummy.


AKR: Take into account playstyle and behavior throughout this game. Based on who is in red, I believe these players would spread their votes out instead of voting for one person because the ones in a more vibrant red look opportunistic. (I explained why Pieman looked scummier in my voting post) Just because someone is on more wagons does not mean they're scum. If you have some other type of analysis, though, I'd love to hear it. (AKR, why do you think scum don't know how to bus in this game? It's the most common thing to do when you're scum)

[Hinduragi]

Raivann (3) : AKnottedrope, BunnyLover, holycon

[Hinduragi]

It was in my Reference post, under the Pieman wagon

[Hinduragi]

If so, gofarman should be banned from mafiascum.net after our mod informs mith of that.

Speculation and opinions are different things. Saying someone is X and then not giving reasoning but saying they might do this is speculation. Giving reasoning as to why they are scum and they might do this is opinion. Give us your opinions again, in more than twelve word sentences. It's not that hard.

Fluff is something used to disguise your real reasoning in your post, which is what you did. I'm asking for said reasoning, so give it to me. You just posted that you're voting Raivann solely for the reason that he voted your partner with reasons you don't agree with. AKR was voting Raivann before you.

[Hinduragi]

Nopoint, how can all 6 of us be scum with Pie/Bunny?

[Hinduragi]

Lol, and where's the actual reasoning for all of the above?

[Hinduragi]

Pulled out of his ass just like everything else he's said in this game.
PLEASE PLEASE CAN I KILL HIM I REALLY WANT TO

I say we go for Pieman first, his chances of flipping scum are still higher imo.

[Hinduragi]

Gandalf, why are you asking me to hammer? Nopoint is like L-2 or L-3 or something like that. Idk, really, but some people unvoted him.

Lol, it's scummy, I'll admit, since the pressure on him was just taken off before his sudden change of heart. I'd still rather see the Pieman flip. I'm not going to post any defense on him or ask for unvotes on him, though, so do what you will.

Mod: Can we get a vote count?

Bunny, you just said you're still voting him because you don't agree with his reasoning for his vote. Is this correct or would you like to add more to it?

Opinion on who is scum and why?

The biggest wagon? I'm pretty sure I just saved nopoint(Who was L-1) from getting hammered. I then presented a case on your lover, Pieman (Who was like L-6) and pushed for his lynch. This is not the biggest wagon; Don't misrep me.

[Hinduragi]

Gandalf, why is he confirmed town for AtE?

[Hinduragi]

Your reaction further confirms my belief. As much as I hate it, I'd rather get mis-lynched than getting two mislynches.

What's your reasoning for post 547?

[Hinduragi]

So who is scum and why, Bunny?

I'm assuming that is your only reason for voting nopoint then?

Seriously, just "I'll leave it" is not a good response when you are voted. If you're town, you answer your questions, give out your reads, and try to look for scum. Town doesn't just "leave it". Their job is to lynch scum, not let a wagon on them go through. Town defends themselves so a mislynch doesn't happen. You aren't doing this.

[Hinduragi]

Nopoint, you do realize you just went for Pieman when a lynch on you was likely, and as soon as AKR unvoted and you weren't in immediate danger of a lynch, your views on the entire game changed suddenly and you went for XScorp, because it smells like a scum push. Seriously, from my view, this is inconsistency and it looks scummy so I don't see what's wrong with XScorp's pushing atm based on your recent play.

Anyways, your entire case on us being the scumteam is based on who voted who and pushed for said person's lynch. Because we didn't go for these two, we're scum. That makes no sense. As for why I'm not all over the AKR/Shotty thing, 1.) Shotty looks town to me, but he's difficult to read. 2.) AKR is definitely looking more town to me than any of you guys. So again, I propose to you a question: Why in the world would I vote for my town suspicions?

[Hinduragi]

So town not voting for possible town is PoE? I'm going to die, because my partner, my predecessor, and I did not vote for people we thought might be town or who were hard to read? Do you realize what you're saying here? The only facts you're going to get from XScorp's lynch and, as a result, my death, is that scum are bussing in this game.
This is not good scumhunting.

[Hinduragi]

Why do you oppose their lynch?

[Hinduragi]

....nopoint, I strongly reccomend you change your methods of scumhunting once this game is over.

[Hinduragi]

I promise I'll remind you about said advice during my post-game rage if you're town in this game.

[Hinduragi]

You do realize that if town or scum wants to use your own logic on you two, you're going to be lynched D2 for setting up our mislynch?
Speculation is not a scumtell.

[Hinduragi]

You're forgetting I made my case back on page 21. I stand by it.

[Hinduragi]

Gandalf/Holycon unless Pieman/Bunny flip town.
I answered this question on page 22.

[Hinduragi]

You guys. This is blatant buddying up to town if they flip town.

[Hinduragi]

Because I don't know their roles?

[Hinduragi]

Changing your mind about a read/vote as soon as you and your partner's chances of dying are lowered definitely looks like scummy buddying if they flip town. Especially when you just unvoted XScorp, voted Pieman, then changed your mind and voted XScorp based on your partner's reads.

If Pie flips town, yeah, you're scum for changing your mind on him. It looks like you're trying to gain town points by calling someone else you know is town as town.

[Hinduragi]

Bunny, I'm tired of this. If you want answers to your questions, answer mine to you first.

[Hinduragi]

So who is scum and why, Bunny?

I'm assuming that is your only reason for voting nopoint then?

Seriously, just "I'll leave it" is not a good response when you are voted. If you're town, you answer your questions, give out your reads, and try to look for scum. Town doesn't just "leave it". Their job is to lynch scum, not let a wagon on them go through. Town defends themselves so a mislynch doesn't happen. You aren't doing this.

I still want an explanation of the nopoint vote as well.

[Hinduragi]

Bunny, I have asked you the same questions over and over. I'll be more than happy to answer your questions like I've done with everyone else as soon as you answer mine.

Who else is scum besides me? Seriously, at the time I asked you that, you had made it perfectly clear you thought I was setting up a mislynch. I want to know who else besides me is scum.

Your reason is not clear at all. You are voting him because he didn't give a reason but then he did give one that you didn't agree with? Just state your reasons and lay them all out. Repeating yourself shouldn't really be a problem if you don't want to die.

[Hinduragi]

I am tired of saying it over and over and over again. He comes in with no reason to vote, makes a fucking stupid reason as his reason to vote

This is good. Exactly what I wanted. Ok, so how does this make him scum? Why would scum have a stupid reason? Why can't he be a townie who has a bad reason as a vote?

Yeah, I know you think I'm scummy. That's abundantly clear. You suspect only me now? Lol, ok. If I'm your only suspect and you're town, your vote would be on me. If I'm your fake suspect and you're scum, you'd be as cautious as you are now.

Guys, read this sentence if you're just skipping posts. I'm telling you: Pieman/Bunnylover are our scum

Hinduragi I don't understand your logic.
You say me/Pieman are scum and Nopoint/Morthax are scum as well.
Nopoint is at L-1 I believe(Been quit awhile since a vote count I believe :<), and yet you want to lynch me and Pieman who you said is at L-5 or L-6.
You do realize if we lynch one scum, they all die right?
Meaning if you were confident in your deduction, you should have already lynched Nopoint.
I do not see how waiting for the next day after you lynch me and pieman makes any sense.
Explain that logic, please.

As for now
Unvote
Discussion is been made, we need to use our time wisely.

Edit: But Hindu you yourself have stated two partners as town reads. Nachoman and his partner, and Shotty and his partner.
Yet your saying Nopoint can't do that, because that make him scum

I said

IF

you/Pieman aren't scum, nopoint/mothrax are; Stop misrepping me.
Nopoint is at L-3 or L-4 now since your unvote.
Yes, I realize that.
Lynching nopoint instead of Pieman/you is stupid. I'd kill possible town and then D2 suggest Pieman/you are scum when you guys were more likely to flip scum anyways? Wtf? I need town votes to lynch. To get town votes, I should vote and present cases on those most likely to be scum.


No. I never said X is scum for sure. Then, as a lynch on me was fended off, X is probably town, actually, because these two pairs haven't voted for each other so they must be scum.

[Hinduragi]

Ebwop: Should be skimming

[Hinduragi]

No, I merely meant if you have a suspect, you vote their ass. If you don't want them lynched yet and they're almost to 7 votes or whatever the majority is, you unvote. It's to give everyone else a standing of where you are. It's a potentially pro-town thing to do because scum have to do it to appear town and thus they are assigned a person as their suspect and they have to give reasoning, which can be questioned and analysed and that results in another player getting a read on them.

Bunny, I don't know your role. Stop pretending like I do. It's not gut feeling. It's how you're playing. How you are either misrepping me hard or how you're just stupid. When I say IF, it's because you can be scum or town. What part of that is so hard to follow?

...Yep, Bunny just went Al Qaeda on us. Stop saying "IMA KILL MYSELF." and go and look for some actual suspects while giving decent reasoning.

XScorp, you're probably right. <_< Still, anyone else find it fucking lolworthy that Gandalf, during that ENTIRE discussion, posted sarcasm instead of actual content. Like REALLY? All you have to say is "The above AtE completely confirms you as town"?

Also, the entire case on us is so shitty it's funny. Bunny wants me dead because I pressured him. Nopoint/moth want us dead because we didn't vote shotty/AKR. XScorpl, what do you think of a Bunny/Pieman/Nopoint/moth scumteam? We could both be right about our votes. It seems likely, especially with nopoint/moth's change of heart.

Preview Edit:

I am hoping that after Pieman and mine lynch, the town will see that Hind set up a mislynch. This is why he is trying to lynch us instead of nopoint.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. Im setting up a mislynch and getting off of a scumlynch, which my partner is pushing? You do know we know each others' alignments? If you think nopoint is a good lynch and Im setting up a mislynch, put your money where your mouth is.

[Hinduragi]

Bunny/Pieman/Nopoint/moth

If this is true then we can lynch Nopoint and we still win, so I see no point in lynching pie/bunny.

You think the self voting thing was a joke or not?

[Hinduragi]

Bunny's had the same type of awful play throughout this game, as denoted in that catchup post where I voted Pieman. What do you think the odds are of both Bunny and Pieman having play this awful as town?

[Hinduragi]

XScorp, please be right.

Unvote; Vote: Nopoint

And agreed. Gandalf/holy could be scumbuddies with practically any of these guys.

[Hinduragi]

I doubt it since Shotty/Akr unvoted. Hell if I know.

[Hinduragi]

I think that's L-2 actually since I just recounted votes.


Bunny:
Here
Now stop misrepping me on this.

But I didn't state that Nopoint was scum in that post, I think you misunderstood what I posted

I am hoping that after Pieman and mine lynch, the town will see that Hind set up a mislynch. This is why he is trying to lynch us instead of nopoint.

The second one translate to english as "He's setting up a mislynch and condoning this one. The condoned lynch isn't a mislynch because the other one is"
If I'm scum, what the hell is stopping you from voting? This just makes you look scummier.

[Hinduragi]

Let's go for nopoint instead. Bunny's play is consistent at being inconstistent so I dont think we should go for him.

[Hinduragi]

I was ready to kill Nopoint but Hind did not want to after re-reading the thread. Hindu all of a sudden switched his vote over after saying he certain me and Pie are scum, does not make sense in my head. If you say someone is scum, that you are sure of it, why would a person switch his vote after another player has posted their theory of what he may be trying to do.

ITT 6 pages of constant discussion and activity = all of a sudden. Just because it's a short time frame does not mean it was rapidly switched. There is plenty of content in those pages.
Did you read the thread I linked? It says pressure your suspects. Pressuring equals reactions. I got my reactions.

This one needs a re-quote:

If you say someone is scum, that you are sure of it, why would a person switch his vote after another player has posted their theory of what he may be trying to do.

The theory thing has nothing to do with me switching my vote.
You are definitely obvscum if these guys flip scum so there's no point in going for you. (Pun not intended)
You are obvtown if these guys flip town because scum does not save a town lynch this hard.
This lynch produces the best information for the town, so it's easily the best one for D1.

[Hinduragi]

You haven't stated why you have switched your vote.

Try reading the last 4 lines of the post you just quoted. Now repeat this. Ok, good. Glad you're following along with me.

I am trying to save myself from getting lynched D2? I'm trying to save myself from getting lynched period. If I get lynched, XScorp dies. That means 2 less townies and 0 less scum.

[Hinduragi]

Are you?

[Hinduragi]

It's a win win situation for me either way.

I seriously think this is VI play, XScorp.

LOL@gandalf refusing to comment on this and hammering then going Pieman.

[Hinduragi]

You were putting someone at L-1 and you did accidentally drop the hammer.

[Hinduragi]

No. Bunny's vote was L-1. Read the Vote Count.

[Hinduragi]

In all honesty, it made a huge difference for me.

[Hinduragi]

Moth, did you really make a case on me/xscorp as town based on not voting for shotty and possible speculation?

[Hinduragi]

Idk about you, but I called nopoint a VI before his case was made. Shotty too. Bunny tried to kill himself, so I think we're justified there. Anyways, who do you think is scum after us?

[Hinduragi]

I agree.

In that case, what do you think of the following quote?

Quit trying to make it look like we're scumbuddies shotty >.> vote: shotty

Scum gambit or bad town play?

[Hinduragi]

I told you he wasn't a good lynch, XScorp.

[Hinduragi]

...true. Still, our survival shouldn't have mattered much today but, even you have to admit, this town is demented. Well, watch out, gandalf. The evidence on you is overwhelming.

[Hinduragi]

Again, your entire assumption theyre not a scumteam is that the scum arent bussing. I know Im town, so I know that, whoever the scum are, they are bussing.

[Hinduragi]

You sure, XScorp? Gandalf/Holycon seem more likely to flip scum.

[Hinduragi]

You'll see it when I see that there's a D2. You can actually defend yourself then. Over-reacting before a case/vote was made is lols.

[Hinduragi]

I don't think Pie/Bunn are scum tbh.

[Hinduragi]

Why can't we lynch gandalf, though?
If we rule out You/Pie then that's 3 pairs. Leaving Nacho/Gandalf/Shotty. I still think we should go Gandalf.

[Hinduragi]

This is town-XScorp. He is being reasonable. I'll bring him over to the gandalf lynch or I'll die trying.
XScorp being lynched is going to make you/me/town lose so that's absolute nonsense.

[Hinduragi]

Oh, no wonder you were so intent to tunnel on XScorp.

[Hinduragi]

You weren't wrong.

And XScorp, you have to admit, he did give us alot of info by getting lynched.

[Hinduragi]

Bunny, up for a shotty lynch tmrw?

[Hinduragi]

Nopoint, I'm going to love giving you that advice post game.

[Hinduragi]

@nopoint: If you can think of a reason for town gandalf to defend shotty, be my guest.

Because there's no way at all to tell if shotty is scum or not and you know it as well as I do! So why not take advantage of the fact that you don't have to make that discernment?!

You've been defending shotty the entire game. Meaning if you're my top suspect, I should vote him. Want to tell me why I shouldnt?

[Hinduragi]

If he's town, then that would mean gofarman tried to confirm nacho as town on purpose.

[Hinduragi]

AKR was bandwagonned to L-1?

[Hinduragi]

...Oh fuck. Didn't nopoint have his entire case built on us because we didn't vote Shotty/AKR? Because, according to the shotty wagon, we did. We could've disproved that in a heartbeat and done actual scumhunting.

[Hinduragi]

Nvm, he said you were scum because you "unvoted very quickly after shotty got to L-1". Case fail.

[Hinduragi]

Possibly, not wholesale, but I'm not willing to lynch them in LyLo. Let's go for Gandalf.

[Hinduragi]

I think Nacho flaked. (S)He hasn't posted in a while.

[Hinduragi]

How are we leading the town? We're scumhunting. If the rest of the town wants to do their own scumhunting, they can go ahead.

[Hinduragi]

Your little conversation looks very theatrical. At least do it after I'm gone?

I can't do anything about my partner not wanting to use our QT.

[Hinduragi]

Scum are definitely misleading this guy if he flips town.

[Hinduragi]

What do you guys think about nacho/bv being scum? Gofarman may've not read the pm or he couldve confirmed town intentionally.

[Hinduragi]

1. Gandalf
2. You

[Hinduragi]

Who do you suspect, Shotty?

[Hinduragi]

LOL.

[Hinduragi]

You voted for nopoint, though.

[Hinduragi]

It's not day 2 yet.

[Hinduragi]

Same, but scum has no motivation to keep posting here unless they wanted to just fuck around with us.

[Hinduragi]

Mod: Can we request prods? If so, can Nacho be prodded?

[Hinduragi]

Well...should we go for shotty or gandalf? This scum scale is getting overloaded.

[Hinduragi]

ya I still think no point may be lieing, it's just something he would do

Based on the above post, I doubt it.

[Hinduragi]

XScorp, look at our QT.

Shotty, you're with Gandalf or Nacho.

[Hinduragi]

If he's scum with Pieman, that means that me/Bunny are scum. Lol? Did you not read our tl;dr convo or something?

[Hinduragi]

ok so do you guys think it's me and gand and holy and akr together?

Definitely. Especially with you wanting to blame nacho and Gand wanting to throw off the heat on him by saying we're sheeping Nacho.

[Hinduragi]

You told everyone to ignore his play. Nice try. Your "pressure vote" was "Stop trying to make it look like Im your scumbuddy, Shotty".

[Hinduragi]

Well, game over. I hope you like nooses, Gandalf.

[Hinduragi]

XScorp unvoted first. Again, nice try.

[Hinduragi]

No. Because I know XScorp is town. Anyways, youre not presenting a good case for yourself either. Because you just said you had a scumbuddy.

[Hinduragi]

XScorp unvoted first. Again, nice try.

Yes, XS unvoted first, how is that anything close to fucking relevant?

Because you unvoted when Shotty was L-5 or L-6 and hopped onto his wagon when he was L-2?

[Hinduragi]

@hindu I was speaking from your point of view

You asked if my lover was your scumbuddy. That makes no sense.

[Hinduragi]

no i was saying your logic didn't make sense

I'm supposed to know you're asking from my point of view? From my point of view, I know my buddy is town, so if you're trying to ask me from my point of view, this question shouldn't exist.

[Hinduragi]

And if tha question shouldn't exist neither should the statement in which spung the thought of the question

What statement of mine sprung the thought of the question?

[Hinduragi]

Gand claimed he unvoted first. I was just stating something to disprove his words.

[Hinduragi]

Well, one vote doesn't create much pressure, does it? Did you notice that I unvoted when he got to L1?

You unvoted when he got to L-5 or L-6. You were caught in a lie.

[Hinduragi]

If Shotty is ready to take out his own scumbuddy when D2 starts, Im down with that. Just gotta wait for the mod now.

[Hinduragi]

Maybe you missed gofarman's post.

[Hinduragi]

Not exactly. You haven't even seen the case on you. Don't try to discredit it before it's even been posted.

[Hinduragi]

Well, XScorp, Gandalf or Shotty?

[Hinduragi]

Oh, this will be good.

[Hinduragi]

I want to know one thing from four of you:

Shotty, AKR, Bv, Nacho: Who are your top two suspect pairs and why? Also, Bv, why is Shotty scummy? You probably know by now he is a VI in every game he's in.

[Hinduragi]

So your second suspect is every player in the game besides nacho/bv, who are your first suspects?

[Hinduragi]

Why are bv/nacho scummy?

[Hinduragi]

Also, what happened recently? In twilight, you were all for lynching gandalf back to the queue.

[Hinduragi]

Anyway, I think DMSIS is scum mainly for the fact that all he's done this game is post single-liners, sheeped votes, voted with weak reasoning, and tried to deflect all suspicion off of himself with "I'm a VI" or "But who's scum with me?" bullshit.

I don't get it. Why wouldn't town DMSIS do this?

[Hinduragi]

AKR, who are your top suspects? Nacho, you too.

[Hinduragi]

XScorp, Bunny/Pie are the favored lynch by 4 pairs, including 5 if you counted my big push against them. I'm taking them in as confirmed townies from here-on. Bunny's defense helped them seem townie. That wasn't a scum gambit. The most likely pair(Gandalf/Holy) with them wouldn't have ever let them pull that in the scum QT. Nacho/BV weren't even here, really, unless BV was spouting off crap in the QT while lurking here. And it seems Nacho/BV want a Pie/Shotty lynch most. Kk. Happy birthday, Pie/Bunny, you just earned some confirmed townie, if VI townie, status from me.

Gandalf, expect your case tomorrow. I'm pretty sure this game is over.

My current list:

PieMan/Bunnylover

XScorpion/Hinduragi

bv310/Nachomamma8

drmyshottyizsik/AKnottedRope

holycon/Gandalf5166

[Hinduragi]

Hind, why isn't shotty confirmed town? The bolded are the people whose lover was on the wagon already... Zazier doesn't count since he was in the process of flaking still.

Day 1, sure, scum were cautious. But Shotty was a VI, and moreover, his lynch was a joke. Anyone who's played a prior game with Shotty knows it's probably better to PL him(not happening in a 2 day game) or to find possible partners/other scum instead. Shotty isn't confirmed town because Gandalf, the only person I think who could be paired with him, would know that his lynch had a massive chance of not going through. This is day 2 though. If scum call out scumbuddies as their first suspicion, they cant suddenly change their mind because they'd out themselves. Even for scum who like to mindfuck town, they'd go for something safe right now, because it's MyLo and theyre not going to want to lose for bussing the obvious scum.

AKR, your question should be answered above. By "Defense", I meant his "Ok, you guys lynch me and if I flip scum, lynch Hindu D2".


Also

the mod already said tha nopoint and mothrax were town and hes done a new vote count since then

THAT'S your catchup post? Stop prod avoiding and post some content.

[Hinduragi]

Oh, on another note

Mod: I'm V/LA until late Sunday or Monday

Noted.

[Hinduragi]

Glad to see everyone is going for the guy I confirmed as town. That's just epic. Anyways, he's definitely not a good lynch for LYLO.

Let's take a look at prime candidate Gandalf over here.

Initial Posts:

ISO 1-21. Good luck finding any content there. Mostly setup speculation/arbitrary discussion, really, asides from where he just blindly agrees and also starts the mass lover claim.

Now... wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, and....

Erm. The easiest wagon? You mean, the most obvious wagon. VOTE: PieMan This wagon is AWSUM.

FIRST VOTE OUTSIDE RVS. And look at that awesome reasoning!

And his next post outlining said reasoning:

Easy. You and Pieman are scummy as hell. LYNCH IS GO!!!!!!!!!!!

No, there's plenty enough reason at this point. Anything original I could come up with at this point would be incredibly weak, and the perfect excuse for you to be all like, "WEAK REASONZ, LET'S LYNCH HIM INSTEADZ"

So, instead of letting us attack his reasoning, he lets us attack others which indirectly attacks him except he has ZERO responsibility and holds no liability to said reasons.

He re-outlines what he's doing in different words here:

Yes, I am latching onto everybody else's case. Because it's a good case. Why make a case if nobody else is allowed to vote based on it?

Slight things:

Yes, but Pieman, why wait 15 days when we can lynch scum and win now?

It's not really a strong point but this hints that Gandalf is willing to lynch his suspect with 15 days left until lynch deadline.

But the person you link me to changes every five pages.

Because you could be scum with almost anyone, it makes a hell of a lot of sense to lynch you.

Because there's no way at all to tell if shotty is scum or not and you know it as well as I do! So why not take advantage of the fact that you don't have to make that discernment?!

Bullshit and you know it as well as I do! Town gandalf would stick to his meta instead of fucking with us. Even with a set number of lynches, shotty still looks as scummy as he is in any other game. A scum gandalf would love to buddy town shotty in the hope that town shotty sees him as attempting a pro town position in this game.

Yes, let's sheep the townie, that way we don't make a decision that could get us lynched, shall we?

Epic misrep here. My partner wants to wait for nacho to get the last two people's views on the game.

Shotty & Gandalf sitting in a tree:

Now, I really would love to eliminate Shotty and Gandalf as a scumpair. This is probably due to the constant defense from gandalf. But right now it doesn't matter. It's either Shotty & Gandalf or Gandalf & Nacho. That's all I need to know as to how I place my vote.


A few thoughts on this entire ordeal between Gandalf, where he defends Shotty, and Shotty, where he plays like normal. Here were my first thoughts: Why is Gandalf defending Shotty? What motive does he have as town to do this? What motive does he have as scum to do this? What are the chances of Gandalf wanting to mindfuck with us based on his alignment?

Then my first, and final, answers to aforementioned questions: Friend or Buddying. None, shotty is unreadable but that is no reason to go back on your other experiences with him. Plenty, it brings up WIFOM, lets shotty view him in a similar light, or, if Shotty is a buddy, keeps him from being lynched. Mentioned in the other questions.

Now, let's look at just how likely it is that this isn't town Gandalf. We're going to be looking at solely motive for this go-through since I find it's the most efficient thing in police investigations.

Yes, but he as has already said, he thought that mafia were in pairs just like we were. Which would be town-slip, if there is such a thing.

Town wouldn't be this ignorant. Town-slip? My ass. Since you, if you aren't scum, would have(obviously) read the scum PM, you'd know(As I do) that these sort of gambits are easy to fake. It's more than likely(75%, if there was a number on it) that if shotty is a scum member, he was told to do that in the quicktopic so that another scum member(In this case, Gandalf) would be able to make him appear town.

Anyways, let me point out something more:

Yeah. Cause since shotty is gonna be one big fat null, we're gonna have to pay extra attention to AKR

Now let's fast forward to another point in the game where Shotty/Gandalf have a talk-

you are proving to be more and more scummy No Point. I think we need to look into you a lot more.
unvote vote No Point

And....... I just have to remember that it's shotty. Then I can keep my vote under control. >.>

Oh come on gandalf you can't denny his last three posts being scummy/active lurky man. Really I think he is being over looked

No, he's pretty likely town. COULD be scum, but Xs/bean/pie/bunny is far more likely.

But what has XS done to make him seem like scum? I can't call some one scum due to their partner, when I'm mad that people are calling my lover scum because of my play style man.

Quit trying to make it look like we're scumbuddies shotty >.> vote: shotty

"Shotty is gonna be one big fat null" - You DID say that, right? EXCELLENT. Shotty discusses why someone may be scummy and that AKR is being called scum because of Shotty's VI-ness and town-gandalf interprets that as him being a SCUMPARTNER? No. Scum-gandalf does this. Town-gandalf doesn't misrep someone and certainly doesn't vote someone because theyre making him look like a scumbuddy. That's bullshit. If you're town, and someone's discussing suspicions with you, that is not anything near being their scumbuddy.

How many times do I have to tell people that READS ON SHOTTY ARE USELESS. Shotty playing the game = you having a scum read on shotty. You just have to ignore him. Luckily, the way this game's set up, we have someone else to analyze. And if you're getting a null on him, there are still two more scum out there. UNVOTE: The vote was a pressure vote, but I see it's not doing any good

PRESSURE VOTE? Reads on Shotty are useless so what good will pressure do if you aren't going to read him anyways? What were you looking for when you pressured Shotty?

The pressure was not to help me determine whether he was town or scum. It was for him to start actually playing the game correctly. In other words, it was a vote I made as his friend, not as my role in the game.

So you pressured him... to make him start playing correctly? Because him voicing his suspicions and reasons to you made you look like his scumbuddy? So you wanted to vote him? Nope. Definite bull here.


Now, for one final point on this, I want to review with you one HIGHLY DISTURBING set of quotes:

Yeah. Cause since shotty is gonna be one big fat null, we're gonna have to pay extra attention to AKR

Quit trying to make it look like we're scumbuddies shotty >.> vote: shotty

The above vote is a vote that put Shotty at L-2. Gandalf later clarified this as a pressure vote. It wasn't even for an ingame reason but one for "being a friend" to "make Shotty play correctly". Town does not put someone within range of being accidentally hammered when he openly opposes said persons lynch. Scum does, and he does reclarify it later with some excuse like "a pressure vote".

I am for lynching shotty EARLY GAME. When we have EXTRA LYNCHES.

Yet you put him at L-2 where he can be easily lynched.

This is game is so over. Moving on...

Shifting the Blame

VOTE: Nopoint Yay for winning the game!

Wow, and bunny ninja's me with the hammer. Obviously, nopoint is town. VOTE: PieMan

I usually ignore those, there's no point unless you're putting someone at L1 and you're afraid that you might accidentally drop the hammer.

You were putting someone at L-1 and you did accidentally drop the hammer.

Oh, looking back at the votecount, I see I did hammer. Doesn't make much of a difference.

Negative, sir. For those who care and are still reading, let's break this down into simple steps:

1.) Gandalf hammers
2.) Gandalf says it's an accidental hammer and votes Pie(Because nopoint is obviously town? How was he obvtown?)
3.) Gandalf is called out on the accidental hammer by Bunny, who says that there is a listing that will show you what posts were made before you posts. He says he doesn't read those "unless you're putting someone at L-1 and you're afraid that you might accidentally drop the hammer"
4.) I say that he was putting someone at L-1 and he did accidentally drop the hammer
5.) He tries to blow the entire thing off as little more than a small incident

Pertaining to 3:
If Gandalf did read:
As town: He wouldn't have hammered. It's simple, really. Town wouldn't be looking for such a quicklynch, especially after switching to Pieman.
As scum: Wants a lynch to end the day and get some townies out of the game.
If Gandalf didnt read:
As town: He would say he didnt read because he doesnt read them. He wouldnt make up some obvious lie about it. Town is afraid to hammer. Period.
As scum: He'd do what he did in the above 5 points. Hammer, then try to shift the blame to Pieman, and then try to lie about the hammer.

Caught in a Lie:

Well, one vote doesn't create much pressure, does it? Did you notice that I unvoted when he got to L1?

XScorp unvoted first. Again, nice try.

Yes, XS unvoted first, how is that anything close to fucking relevant?

I NEVER SAID I UNVOTED FIRST.

Gah. That wasn't a lie, that was just me not going back and reading. I incorrectly remembered it.

Let me read between the lines:

1. Gandalf defends himself
2. Gandalfs defense is proven to have a hole
3. Gandalf is caught in a lie
4. Gandalf is now attempting to feign ignorance, like he did with the hammer vote
5. Gandalf clarifies his attempt at feigning ignorance

Vote: Gandalf

In other news, why is noone making cases on people? It's LYLO. You can't just vote and then post a one liner as proper reasoning unless your lover presented a good case on the suspect already.

Anyways, I'm going to bed. This took a while to type up.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty isn't even the only possible pair.

SA-GH
Gandalf and Holy were both voting Shotty when he was at L-1. Shotty has a record of being lynched Day 1, and many people were convinced he had scumslipped at this point, so this can't be the correct scumpair.

1.) You're the most likely scumpair with Gandalf, tbh
2.) I entertained the thought that friend Gandalf would know people in this game would not make a Shotty lynch happen in a game with two lynches, especially XScorp, who accidentally lynched town-shotty when he fail-claimed.

[Hinduragi]

Because the scumteam hasn't hammered him yet. That should be more than enough proof that he's scum, man. If Pie/Bunny are scum, there are 2 more out there. And they aren't hammering him. So I'm now 100% that we've got scum.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty, nacho is gandalf's most likely partner.

What I'm saying, holycon, is scum won't hammer their scummate because they'll lose the game. That means scum aren't on Gandalf's lynch. If Pie/Bunny were scum, their scummates would've hammered Gandalf. Obviously, now I know they aren't. They're 300% confirmed in my eyes. Every single one of you guys on their lynch need to get off of it.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty, if Nacho/BV are scum with Pie, then why is BV not voting and why is Nacho voting Pie, his scumbuddy?

[Hinduragi]

@Hindu- Because he hasn't been on yet, and so you will think like that and allow him to mislynch and win.

I saw his name in the "Users browsing this forum" along with Nacho the moment I posted my case. Neither of them voted. If they were scum and Gandalf was not their scumbuddy, this game would already be over.

[Hinduragi]

HOLY SHIT!!!!!
XS/Hindu and Bunny/Pie ARE SCUM TOGETHER!!! GOD IT MAKES PERFECT SENCE!!!!

unvote
vote PIE!!!

1. you already voted pie
2. why is my case wrong
3. why am i scum

[Hinduragi]

...Well, that's fucking great. Looks like scum are going to win this game. Whoever is the other two townies: way to lose us the game.

[Hinduragi]

It's all cool bunny, but too bad you're scum
But anyway Hindu right now please explain why the fuck town has lost?

I confirmed Bunny as town, dude. Like, I will bet you $100+ that his role pm says he's town. Yes, I'm more than positive by now. Since he's town, so is Pie. Since Pie's town and it looks like everyone else is going for him, we've lost.

[Hinduragi]

Why are you lynching XScorp?

[Hinduragi]

Bunny, what do you think of Nacho? Nacho, why the sudden change in opinion? Nacho, what do you think of Bunny?

[Hinduragi]

What do you think of Nacho, Gandalf?

[Hinduragi]

How is Nacho town? Don't give me the gofarman post. Way too much wifom surrounds his post for me to buy it.

[Hinduragi]

Right now, I dont have time to respond to Gandalf's response-thing. I'll be at that later. Anyways, I'm willing to lynch Nacho as much as I am Gandalf. Either way, those two are the only people I'm willing to vote for. Still, I'd rather vote for the person with a case. And I'm tired of making cases since they take forever to do. Shotty, the only person that could be paired with Nacho is Gandalf.

I dont know about you guys, but I think this REEKS of a scum gambit. It's LyLo and their buddy is L-2 with a convincing case on him. Suddenly, the scumbuddy switches to him in order to fool the town not voting him at that time(In this case, Shotty) and Gandalf is going to confirm Shotty as town when he is in no way confirmed. Anyways, confirmed town Shotty or not, that does not confirm Gandalf and it doesn't call for any such thing as an unvote. If there was ever a thing that I thought could be done in a QT, it was the way Nacho confirmed Shotty and Gandalf used that as his own defense.

[Hinduragi]

Also, XScorp, post some good content too. I'm pressed for time with school/work as well. e_e

[Hinduragi]

Hey, Hind.

Eat your damn words and make a case on Shotty.

I'll be V/LA for the weekend (sorry, I didn't think it would happen like that), so I'd like a two-day deadline extension, though :/

You better be motherfucking town if I'm going to make my third case. If you're scum, just hammer now while you have the chance, seriously. This is ridiculous and I'm not ready to work my ass off because scum is messing with me. Anyways, I'll be making it over the course of this weekend. I've got a game to be at right now and I'll probably be working after that but I'll see what I can do. It should be up before or by the time you're back.

[Hinduragi]

bv310 is completely missing the point that scum wouldn't hammer gand if gand was scum.

Anyways, I finally have some time so I'm making that case.

[Hinduragi]

No. The point is, all 4 scum are on the same wagon. We know that much. I and my lover are on this wagon, thus we know that scum are on Pieman's. We also know Gandalf has not been hammered yet and that you haven't hammered Gand. This makes you two town, since I think Nacho-scum would've seen my post mentioning frustration and hammered... or he's just mean as hell. However, the catch is you two don't know that we aren't scum, thus you suspect us to be paired with Bunny/Pieman, who happen to be the other bandwagon. You separated your votes, which is very smart because now there is time to convince you guys. So, let me outline the facts for you two from your perspective.

• All 4 scum must be on the same wagon at this point
  The opposing wagon must have all 4 of the other remaining townies on it
  Either of you moving your vote will end this game and decide the fate of this game
  It's 100% between a townie wagon and a scum wagon

Now, I still hope you will change your mind. As for me, I'm going to do continue this case to try and do just that.

[Hinduragi]

Shotty, it doesn't. Xs against you was during RVS.

Suspicious that 66.6% of the people origianlly against XS were killed first? No

Suspicious? I'd like to let you know you had a part in their lynch too. If you thought it was so scummy XS was pushing for them while they were voting him, then why think it's scummy now when the only possible scumteams are pitted with you against XS? If it was a NK, I could understand this accusation but as it stands, no, this line of reasoning isn't going to work.

Ok so now I am L-1 and Holy and Gand are on my wagon. At L-1!!!!!!

Gand jumped on your wagon and pushed it to L-2 upon the reasoning that "It's a pressure vote". At L-2. "To make him play better". Yep. If there was ever a perfect bus, this was it. It looked like a scummy type of bus but it would distance you from Gand and, in the event that it came down to you two having to be scum together, which it now has, this is making Gand look scummy but at the same time making you seem town. I'm not sure what more to say about it, except that this was well executed on your parts.

Next vote count! and holy and Gand are both still on my wagon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God if that doesn't confirm me and by defualt them then I don't know what does.

No, that would be a placeholder/distancing vote pair. This would make you more likely to be partners. Scum would like to have a vote on their partners to distance them, while at the same time not having to avoid the inconvenience of lying about a read. They would also not have to make any points/cases until they deemed it fit to move their vote(s).

Ok I really want you to look at this one guys. I am on this wagon, and Gand is on this wagon, but ALL 4 of the other guys are on there. Every single one of the scum.

It makes more sense that scum would want to avoid all 4 of them piling on the wagon going into D2. They'd be cautious this info would be used against them. I'd think a maximum of 3/4 of them would be on the mislynch to avoid connections. However, this is really a null tell which is why I never tried to use it in my cases.

Nacho/Bv

: I can't make a case on Shotty. I can argue on my behalf but all of the scummy points I found about shotty can be easily counteracted with the simple argument: "Hey, he's a VI. How is this different from his normal play?" I've seen the guy claim doc when he was at L-1 and he flipped VT. This game has been frustrating and it's going to ruin my perfect town record(I've only completed 2 games as town but still). I'm asking you both to just reconsider this lynch. I know Bunnylover and Pieman have had horrible play as town in this game which is why I made my case during D1 on them. I know the two guys who were lynched suspected me and XS. And I know that Shotty seems confirmed town. All that I ask is you look at Gand's vote on Shotty, see if you can find what I'm talking about, and make the right decision.

Shotty/AKR/Gand/Holycon

:
If you can, I'd love to be presented with some evidence of some sort about how/why I'm scum and why I'm paired with Bunnylover/Pieman. Do not give me how it's been said. I want a case. A real case. No catchup posts or saying you've said it already or anything of that sort. This is very nearly the end of LyLo and I'll be damned if I let town get lynched without a proper argument.

[Hinduragi]

Well, there goes my perfect town record. Bunny/Pie/Nacho/Bv, I tried, really, I did. Im not sure why you guys didnt notice the effort I gave this game =/. Scum, your play was shit other than that bus but I'm a little too frustrated to care/comment on it right now.

[Hinduragi]

You should have concentrated on defending yourself

There was nothing to defend myself against which is why I asked for a decent case from all of you, Nacho/Bv included. If noone can prove I'm scum, then the obvious people to go for would be you four. But, no, my job is not to defend Bunny/Pieman. When I know they're confirmed town, they're confirmed. Noone proved my argument of them being confirmed wrong or even spoke against it. So that was nulled either. If Nacho/Bv had waited, town would have won this game.

[Hinduragi]

I don't like to accept previously-confirmed town when I enter LyLo as a meta. When I saw you weren't hammering, I was able to accept you. The case on shotty thing was more of me saying that instead of you guys. Every point I tried to make I saw myself asking "He'd do this as a VI anyways".

[Hinduragi]

most legitimate attempts to scumhunt were either ignored or easily brushed aside.

This is why we lost.

[Hinduragi]

I like the mod's thoughts because they're from a third party perspective and they actually aren't biased in ways so, yeah, it'd be cool to hear those if Elscouta has the time. Also, wtf Shotty, where did you make me seem scummy?

[Hinduragi]

....nopoint, I strongly reccomend you change your methods of scumhunting once this game is over.

I will gratefully take your advice if I am wrong.