Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

[Jarti]

okay I've

skimmed

selectively looked at the ISOs of anyone who stuck out

read now

and I see we haven't lynched

LuckayLuck

scum yet, let's fix that VOTE: LuckayLuck

[Jarti]

Sweet, luck today, alamaster tomorrow and then it's easy mode imo.

@mod: since town wins with 2 scum dead & one on the guillotine; that means if we lynch 2 scum and have a 3rd scum on guillotine the game will immediately end without us having to play out that next day while the 3rd scum is already gonna die, right?

~``tick tock tick tock lick luck and clean his clock``~

[Jarti]

so our initial lynches are much more rewarding this game then normal games then

fyi, nothing to bank on [but not something to forget] once we lynch 2 scum correctly; any future mislynches become pseudo-reedemed souls;
most extreme example is 2 correct lynches & then we have 3 mislynches; everytime we threw someone on the guillotine & the game didn't end we'd know the person was clear since if they were the final mafia member the game would end & thus we could trust them since we don't have to play out a 3rd scum lynch

moving on I didn't like alamaster because he kept his rvs down & nudged the antitown wagon while it was hot calling him scummy but no sense of urgency to pressure someone who he thought was scummy; he called out some other scum reads a post earlier before that too but no vote

luck's 'good man' in his first post is generally the type of buddybuddy language that's been buggin me since the beginning

but the 'you must be the scumbuddy of who i'm attacking to vote me' is too much lol

zoraster's disconnect in who is scum is troubling too willing to forgive in some of his list & too unwilling in other parts I wouldn't expect could possibly be just bad judgement or scum being selective will have to watch the guy

[Jarti]

wagons rock VOTE: red coyote

luck this wagon comes complete with heated seats, cool drinks, and if you stay on until we get some worthwhile information from it ythill will serenade you even

simenon calling for a bigger wagon after it dissolves some won't work you have to full circle back to it at that point~luckay still worthy of death though imo

anti you seem frustrated why

percury i never established that it was the reads I disagreed with; it was how he came to some reads not feeling matched up to some others mainly his thoughts on luck vs thoughts on sim & con

but really alamz is just so scum this game; we should compromise on him

[Jarti]

i do what I must ythill

[Jarti]

oh someone else finally sees the pikachu for the scum he be VOTE: AlamasterGM

also of note: RC's responses to AGM in his little catch-up post don't seem genuine, could be scum interacting with buddy for the sake of

also of note: SD, Concission, AGM, and Jarti are all listed as people whose votes don't do enough for him; but he is awfully forgiving of the pikachu in his town to scum list

[Jarti]

but you are following closely enough to pop in when some minimal heat comes your way I see

[Jarti]

luck your conclusion based on how the antitown & agm wagons is awfully selective; you try to use the agm wagon as reason to re-wagon antitown and ignore the other wagons that have occurred in this game that got about as far as the antitown wagon originally did

why so

[Jarti]

looks like a lot happened; catching-up soon

[Jarti]

Woo I have read.

Here's a barebones post to last you until after I've finished lab tonight.

I prefer RC to Concission.

VOTE: RedCoyote

Red
♫PikaGMC❤kes♪/♫CoyoteC❤kes♪/♫LuckyC❤kes♪
♫PercyC❤kes♪/♫SimenonC❤kes♪/♫ConciC❤kes♪
♫GLaSC❤kes♪/♫zorasterC❤kes♪
♫YthillC❤kes♪/♫BalterC❤kes♪/♫DancerC❤kes♪
♫FateC❤kes♪/♫CryptoC❤kes♪
♫JartiC❤kes♪
Green

[Jarti]

RedCoyote I challenge you to a battle!

vs.

Go Kadabra! His Pikachu stands no chance!

[Jarti]

Crypto & Fate have given hard stances, I know where there heads are at and don't feel much scum intent. Good town reads.

Only thing that worries about Fate is him seemingly being fine with conci dying when he thought it was a mislynch. Blowing through mislynches this game sucks early on. But he hopped off it once he got the chance, so I won't let it muddle my read.

Ythill & VPB & SD I could see as scum in a stretch, but that's mostly paranoia/things to re-evaluate if necessary later in the game. Ythill's voting patterns make a lot of sense based on how his reads have developed. Really what stands out the most peculiar is the AGM vote; but that's a good vote in my book. VPB's push against Conci as of late I actually like a lot, I sense a lot of town motivation from it. Following through with a read, & sense of urgency in pushing it. SD's ISOs 35-40 are good; it's easier to get a grasp of his thought process over small posts than any of his longer posts.

Glas & zoraster are more middle of the pack; Glas seems willing to change his stances and publicly makes the reasoning known, but his stances change minimally when it comes to the levels of town lists as compared to how he makes it sound in his reasoning. Liking zor's recent tit for tat with LL despite it being small.

[Jarti]

Percy/Sim/Conci all feel like underdeveloped, shaky reads. None of them stick out as town-motivated to me. Percy looks like he just sets out to dismantle/go against the largest wagons when town might actually be getting somewhere. Sim's stance on ythill in his ISO 1 looks like a faked sense of urgency. Last lines of Conci ISO #11 and #12 both suck. #11 is a classic line 'I'm gonna flip town you scum!' but doesn't really acknowledge he wouldn't die until day 2 anyway and I wouldn't expect that same line in this set-up. #12 is just a callout for the sake of; took about 30 mindless seconds to place decorations around my town/scum list after I made it.

Luck has time to make giant walls, but avoids my point out of his select wagon usage in #427. Instead of explaining he immediately goes for an attack on my previous posts in #430, ignoring #427. Speaking of which, you gave the impression you were willing to vote RC at that time Luck. Thus I was motivated to see if I could get your vote to go there. Alas, throughout the game you've remained stagnant as a only-votes-top-suspect player based on your voting pattern.

AGM & RC feel very connected to me. Most recently AGM going for a different counterwagon (even though it would be a good one) when the RC counterwagon begins. AGM I feel has been a lot more careless with his vote than when I'd expect from seeing his town play before. His 'spearhead every wagon' comment to VPB screams scum to me. Also see earlier jarti posts on him. Also see earlier jarti 5 for RC/AGM vibes. RC's ISO 15 'sentence to sentence' response to ythill reeks as well.

split up for your benefit!

[Jarti]

Updating reads/responses in a moment.

[Jarti]

spoilers = content, the italics are just lyrics for you know who

Now go stand in the corner
And think about what you did
Ha, time for a little revenge

The story starts when it was hot and it was summer and...

Spoiler: On Luck telling people to read the game as if people are confirmed scum

Worst thing you can do as town. When you reread with someone's alignment set-in-mind as scum everything they do will seem scummy regardless; you'll overlook any towntells you might have picked up otherwise because you're mind is already focused on reading them as scum. But I guess you have to grasp at this to get any people who are town to follow you scumbag.

...I had it all, I had him right there where I wanted him

Spoiler: For RC since he asked

:::2lazy2quote:::Sentence by sentence:

1.) Okay.
2.) An arbitrary number.
3.) Why? What difference does that make?
4.) How can you compare wagons with no flips? What are you attributing it to, then? Your reads?
5.) Another completely arbitrary number. Suggests that you are framing a set group of people to please your own interpretation.::::::

You chose to bullet/list this for some reason. I don't see any reason you needed to other than to make it look like you were disassembling something filled with many holes and bad points rather than just a method you disagreed with. I mean, looking at your #1 without re-reviewing Ythill's post looks like an "Okay, but you're wrong" when everything is behind it. When looking at his post, you're really just saying "okay, I'm reading this sentence". Completely unnecessary & devoid of substance. It's just a tacked-on qualifier. #2 is your 'an arbitrary number'; but really at that point there hadn't been any other significant bandwagons than what ythill's number got us anyway. When you add it to the list though, it frames the mindset that ythill was cherrypicking wagons. #3/#4 are legitimate questions that could have been asked directly in paragraph form without #1/#2 setting them up on a list. #5 is falling back on the arbitrary number cop-out; and the list all boils down to your point that is basically 'ythill is framing things'. In reality him showing his 'mental exercise' just showed me how he was thinking about things & shows forces him to make a stance on some players' voting habits, even if his stance is 'null' or 'no info', it can be called out if it looks like he's purposely avoiding taking a stance on someone who he should of. That is why I don't like this.

She came along, got him alone, and let's hear the applause
She took him faster than you can say sabotage

Spoiler: For AGM cause he scums

you said 'jarti speaks english now' in 2 posts without me posting inbetween. After each you threw a peanut gallery comment after it and then went nowhere. 'garbz tho' & 'dat kool' pretty much. Essentially saying "Jarti changed his posting habits/tone! I don't feel like really going anywhere with it, but I want to point in out again in hopes maybe someone else will do what I want them to do and try to draw conclusions as to why Jarti could have changed his posting habits."

I never saw it coming, wouldn't have suspected it
I underestimated just who I was dealing with

Spoiler: Why Ythill is town

He's continually built upon his reads throughout the game; you can follow his thought process really easy in his ISO. When looking at his voting patterns, in particular how he hasn't lingered on either of the L-1 wagons when he felt there were better options available. I don't see any desire from him to push for claims and out a power role or anything of that sort, and he could have gotten a claim from either wagon by sticking to them and pushing them harder. He could have gone after conci for a claim/lynch easily as scum, but didn't. [All of these provided ythill isn't scum with whichever player involved, but that's unlikely, and the point is he's not going for claims for any of them.] Overall just don't see any scum intent in his voting habits at all.

She had to know the pain was beating on me like a drum
She underestimated just who she was stealing from

[spoiler=And they say..
She's so Lucky
She's a star
But she cry cry cries in her lonely heart
Thinking, if there's nothing missing in my life
Then why do I kill townies at night?]Luck, why shouldn't I note things about Fate that I question? Just because I don't take him off my town list doesn't mean I shouldn't note it for future reference for future rereads. It's a stance I'd expect town Fate to take in a normal set-up; in this set-up it seems bad, but careless-fate isn't a non-option.

While your walls are nice, it did allow you to once again avoid my callout of you for the same thing. You seem deadset on avoiding that and instead on AtE's and 'calls to action'.[/spoiler]

She should keep in mind, she should keep in mind
There is nothing I do better than revenge, ha

Spoiler: my vote

I'm content with it where it is. I'd like to see a Percy replacement and content from that slot before a lynch though. Will need to figure out whether I want to change my stance on Shadow Dancer's play since as Ythill's noted his play does look somewhat claim motivated with him putting two players at L-1 thus far. However both of those lynches are ones I'd support & Shadow Dancer's just look like irresponsible town.

And do you still feel like you know what you're doing?
'Cause I don't think you do, oh
Do you still feel like you know what you're doing?
I don't think you do, I don't think you do

Let's hear the applause
C'mon show me how much better you are
See you deserve some applause
'Cause you're so much better

[Jarti]

VOTE: Luck

Honestly was a hard time picking between Luck & AGM & RC for a 'top' suspect; but Luck now acting as if 'Ythill wants everyone to vote for their top suspect, which means he's trying to get me lynched' let me bump him ahead. Looking at the wagons in the last VC I'd support RC more than Conci more than Sime.

Also self-voting Fate:

---
ps: the 21st was my birthday, hoorah!

[Jarti]

Because Simenon is my scumbuddy and RC is the mislynch I want.

I'm torn >_<

you can bus your scumbuddy and still get to nighttalk with him thanks to the mechanics

but really you should play to your wincon and go for the mislynch you want imo

>:F

[Jarti]

yay I got him to do something

[Jarti]

expressing hammer-holding; claim in your next post

[Jarti]

VOTE: redcoyote

[Jarti]

fos: vp balter

believing that one of conci & rc would be scum due to their competing wagons dying out but not wanting to pursue the other provided the first one lynched flips town

[Jarti]

and not wanting to pursue rc in a conci flip but wanting to pursue luck's choice of jarti/glados are both not similar forms of chaining how?

[Jarti]

Even if he had been lynched he wouldn't be dead. He'd still be alive until the guillotine actually dropped on him tomorrow. So he'd have motivation to post regardless of alignment. -_-;;

[Jarti]

luck you seem desperate why

[Jarti]

your tone and the general 'woe is me' card you keep playing so hard

VOTE: simenon L-2

let's do it

[Jarti]

well now you're being desperate at pulling more from a word than what there is

which is fine since you're scum; but if you're town you're worse than StrangerCouger was

oh speaking of StrangerCouger; if luck is town then scum plz plz plz plz nk him dead, slow and painful preferred

[Jarti]

VOTE: vp balter

solid choice imo

trying to argue about the way glados claimed is useless filler/easy for scum to hide behind, stop it

want sim's flip, not much we can do except wagon around until we see it since we're getting an advance flip this round

[Jarti]

vote stays with that flip

although the mod missed it

VOTE: vp balter

need to reread as well though

Apologies; fixed.

[Jarti]

that is correct, I don't see you backing off of bussing a scumbuddy like that upon a vanilla townie claim

[Jarti]

reread

@crypto: vp balter/fate possible?

scratch rc off possible scum list for me; rc same question, i'm thinking yes; can see both as scum individually at this point, but a few things make me think together; overall more confident we should be going after balter 1st tho

agm let's not lynch luck today; likely is just playing a bad game and got too premeditated in going from conclusions to evidence; upcoming post-flips posts from him should help decide, for now let's wagon/lynch vbp

zor/vv/conci: each of you stance on the other 2

doubtful: cyrpto/shadow dancer/red coyote
meh: agm/luck/zor/vv/conci
likely: vp/fate

[Jarti]

wow my reads are jank right now after reading rc v. fate

literally too many people I don't want to trust right now; just going to wagon and hope something eventful happens that helps me make up my mind VOTE: concission

[Jarti]

should be able to post tonight (EST); multiple exams this week :/

[Jarti]

@Luck: your reads from d1 were awful; in the post where you voted simenon you went on trying to string it into the glados/jarti combo, saying it'd have more fuel for your attacks on me when he flipped scum. which he didn't. in addition glados flipped town. essentially you're just tunneling on bad reads that you mostly established through connections and are not going anywhere now since you're just trying to PoE after being wrong about your initial reads; essentially you're refusing to re-evaluate and going from extreme activity to inactivity

Based on RC's ramblings, I'd say there likely is one scum off the wagon if RC is scum. I don't see him trying to divert attention to a 3-town group off of a wagon if he was scum. Just a note for the future.

honestly Fate's #975 helped me get my head straight; specifically the last part. I tried to look through the VCs and based on some of the patterns, VPB & Fate made sense. I don't mind VPB to my null section, but I'm going to keep Fate on the scum. In post #295, I noticed that Fate's #290 had skipped over Simenon, when everyone else who had a vote didn't get skipped. This caused the next vote count to have no crossed out Fate name by Simenon. I took it as a possible indirect communication with other mafia that that was who he wanted to lynch for the day. Later on, we have VPB demanding a claim from Simenon but backing off easily. In addition, Fate was shaky about voting his top suspect, but he finally did and it was Simenon, which turned out to be the deciding factor for Ythill's push. Looking back on it, I shouldn't have connected the two in my head for that reason. But looking again, Fate really had said little about Simenon, had been putting a lot of pressure on RC & had been on Conscisson earlier as well. His newfound dislike of Simenon did get the lynch through.

"Simenon: Vigilante Ventriloquist, RedCoyote, Concission, Fate (L-4)"

Interestingly enough both RC & Concission are also on this wagon that got the approval of Ythill's method. I wouldn't be surprised if one of RC or Conci ended up being a buddy of Fate who had caught his clue. Possibly VV, but I'm not really seeing it.

I'll go ahead and VOTE: fate.

VV: I am no one's alt. Also your case on me [which for whatever reason Luck said had good points, proof he's not even trying anymore and just tunneling] was lame. #959; no problems with holding hammer to actually get the claim. VPB putting him at L-1 and asking for a claim would have left him wiggle room to go "I'm not claiming until someone says they're willing to hammer" which would have just stalled the game. I took the initiative to get things going. #773, the wagon deflated instantly, there was no advantage to going on when he wasn't one of my major suspects if everyone else was going to leave it. #774 I don't even think you read right. You say that I'm calling one of them scum, when I was pointing out that VPB had knocked the situation down to TvS but wasn't going to follow through with it. Plus I WAS voting one of the people in that post. At least read my posts instead of skimming them when it's the short ones you're going after. The 'lolz I'm skipping this' section you put conveniently ignores that I followed through on the Sim lynch, because we needed it and were going nowhere. [Also ignores me clarifying my FOS on VBP at the time]. #854 Yes, I was on Sim's wagon, but marketing it as him being one of my reads I fully expected to flip scum is mischaracterization. It wasn't a bad lynch from my perspective, but it was hardly my preference. [Funny thing is it apparently was Fate's preference but he quickly hopped off of it after the claim as well.] I'm fine taking responsibility for being part of the lynch, but most not all people on the wagon came into D2 with a mentality that he would be flipping scum. Anticipating a possible mislynch with a vote on VPB vote before the flip isn't as ridiculous as you wish to insist.

[Jarti]

You say you voted sime due to the wagon, but that was the time Ythill had gotten everyone to vote their TOP SUSPECT and you were quite aware of what was going on Fate.

[Jarti]

AGM @ L-1

jarti @ going to sleep time

[Jarti]

VOTE: Shadow Dancer

Spoiler: mental note for later

Shadow Dancer puts AGM at L-1 - #30 ISO
Shadow Dancer puts RC at L-1 - #56 ISO
Shadow Dancer puts AGM at L-1 - #75 ISO
Shadow Dancer puts AGM at L-1 - #80 ISO
[people SD has also voted: VV-slot, Glados-slot (both very early on); otherwise just RC & AGM votes]

[Jarti]

Okay, something realllly fishy is going on here. I read Concission in iso and I read (well, most of...) Shadow Dancer in iso. Concission's was easy to read. It fits on one page. It's a nice little exercise. I still have no idea how people consider Shadow Dancer scummier. There is no way in hell we start the day with a wagon on Concission, have everyone suddenly switch to AGM, and then everyone switch to SD just as suddenly.

It makes no sense

.

I don't agree with your line of thinking at all that it's somehow 'fishy' or something, wagons happen. Wagons are good. But while I don't agree with your stance on it, your thought process here makes me think you're town.

[Jarti]

@MOD: prod concission

also GLADoS should be back from V/LA soon, it ended yesterday.

Let's not end the day without a last post from GLADoS.

[Jarti]

"booo" who?

VOTE: AGM

deadline in a few days, we're gonna start tomorrow with the exact same info as today except without GLADoS' vote, let's just move on already

[Jarti]

UNVOTE: , L-1 pointless right now

meh let's just have GLADoS decide

i hate not having a vote down though

VOTE: shadow dancer

honestly no sense lynching outside of these two at this point anyway

need:
glados thoughts
conci votes
vv to try to take a stance between the two instead of asking dumb questions to fate

also an interesting note:
neither sd or agm voting for the other right now

[Jarti]

why bring up things not related to this game

[Jarti]

>User Control Panel>Board Preferences>Edit Display Options>Display Avatars

Select "No"

[Jarti]

fully expecting ViVi or Conci to L-1 SD & allow GLADoS to choose who to hammer & post final thoughts before we got into D2 Pt II tomorrow

@hito conci due for a prod

[Jarti]

VOTE: redcoyote

quicklynch please

[Jarti]

And I'm the one that has no idea what's going on.

crypto coasting off of the early town read everyone had on him; fate backing off his rc wagon to buddy crypto; luck finally going against his bad voteplay; sd being awful town or quiet scum; vpb showing willingness to question crypto but not fate; rc omgus; zoraster useless/active lurking; conci/agm looking townie

and town actually letting scum draw out a day 3 that is an extension of day 2 when the game has already been buried in too much discussion <---which is why you have no idea what's going on vivi

VOTE: zoraster end the day already

[Jarti]

SD's going on his 2nd prod, would love to declare him scum, but can't go connection hunting off of a non-flip. Going on his 2nd prod soon regardless.

Regardless Fate, if you think SD's flip is crucial, vote ADHD isn't going to end this day that really should already be over. The only thing accomplished today thus far is we learned the night kill. We're going to step into tomorrow with a dead Shadow Dancer & Zoraster. Both are practically knowns at this point; but we can't bank on SD scum for connection hunting without an actual flip, lest he be an awful/awfully busy on-guillotine town.

Luck does the fact no substantial wagons formed on me mean I must be scum? Zoraster had no substantial wagons looking through the mod ISO throughout the game either until this point, and looks like he's town. Everyone ignoring a player slot doesn't make the slot scum. It gets harder not to want to lynch you, when you've been insistent on tunneling on town players; and one of your main ways of allowing yourself to tunnel on them is shaky PoE posts clearing everyone else as townie. You've limited it to glados/jarti before. You called simenon you're 3rd most scumread around that time. Eventually going for his lynch saying his scumflip would give you more fuel to attack glados/jarti. Sadly, glados & simenon flipped town; once all of the false connections you had made up in your mind fell apart, you kept on chugging forward. You had to have other scum reads though, so you pushed onto zoraster saying he was someone you'd have thought of as a good lynch. Once again, another townie claim. If Shadow Dancer flips town, you will need to absolutely go tomorrow in my book. You said Zora/Jarti/SD was 2/3 scum, I already know you're down to 1/3 and that's only if SD is scum. Essentially you're scum read on me boils down to a post that you didn't understand, nor did you pay attention to my explanation of in my ISO 12. Which reminds me of that point. Lately you're voting habits have drastically switched focus. Before when I attempted to bribe you onto a possible wagon, you resisted. More recently you've been much more willing to throw your vote around. Using terms like 'townie crossfire' to back off as necessary. Essentially a drastic shift in playstyle from d1 to d2 to d3. Also before I forget you latched onto ViVi's "case" against me, which I pointed out wasn't logical [or him even reading the posts correctly], which you ignored.

Once again, why argue with the way a town PR claimed unless there is a CC? Filler, dragging the game on, etc...

Crypto unstrike fate and strike your choice of agm/conci or better yet unstrike fate/rc & strike agm/conci.

This is VPB's 2nd time making a blatant attempt to act like he doesn't know the set-up. First his misinterpretation of how the vig shot would be done. And now his seemingly being unaware that the on-guillotine can post, despite simenon's posting on d2 and sd saying he'd post toDay. I don't buy it, looks like a gimmick to gain town cred by seeming unaware of the surroundings. Calling out ViVi for being 'scums who can't read the thread' when he himself seemingly never saw simenon's post-guillotine posts.

VOTE: vpb

[Jarti]

Luck I did explain. Then I pointed out I explained in my last post and referenced the ISO # where I explained. Whether you like my explanation or not is one thing, but currently you are blatantly not reading my posts and probably just skimming them over if you still don't understand. If you're going to make me out as avoiding the situation, at least make an effort to see if I've actually addressed it or not.

The bolded part concerning zoraster is neutral? It's not even concerning him, it's simply using him as a reference point to the point you were trying to make. You implied me never having a large wagon meant I was likely scum, I pointed to a situation where someone who is very likely town at this point only had one significant wagon and it was very recently and he had gone through the whole game with none. Where does it looks as if I'm trying absolve responsibility for being on the wagon?