Open 300 - Mafia on Midol (Town Wins!)

[Sudo_Nym]

vote: Xine

She knows what she did

[Sudo_Nym]

(I know Xine isn't in the game. She still deserves a vote, though.)

[Sudo_Nym]

It's where Dread Cthuhlu lies sleeping.

[Sudo_Nym]

its that he posted an non game related post and didnt comment on the non-random type things that had been happening imo

We have a winner. Someone at L-4 on page three with a serious wagon is something worth commenting on.

Speaking of that one, I dont really like the wagon too much. DH just seems to be confused more then anything else to me, so im not happy with it. Would rather lynch a handful of others.

That's a joke, right? Nobody was at L-4, and certainly not with a serious wagon. LF is trying to flick crap at me for a non-serious post in RVS? Seriously, dude.

Oh and I keep meaning to ask this...

@Sudo:

Do you intend for your vote to be on us or not? If so, please do it properly. If not, quit playing around and vote somebody.

vote: Punkin

Excuse me for needing an avatar check to recognize the hydra. I would have expected a Star Wars reference myself. Maybe something to do with a mentor figure of some kind.

[Sudo_Nym]

Not especially, Bobby. Closest you come is this:

no that doesnt matter if its a question totally not relevant to the game imo;

its that he posted an non game related post and didnt comment on the non-random type things that had been happening imo

Which isn't especially more to go on, given the general silliness of RVS. Were there something worth commenting on, I'd have commented on it. So unless you've got a problem with my custom Brandi avatar, I really don't get it.

[Sudo_Nym]

Not especially, Bobby. Closest you come is this:

no that doesnt matter if its a question totally not relevant to the game imo;

its that he posted an non game related post and didnt comment on the non-random type things that had been happening imo

Which isn't especially more to go on, given the general silliness of RVS. Were there something worth commenting on, I'd have commented on it. So unless you've got a problem with my custom Brandi avatar, I really don't get it.

you could have commented on

-troll's lynch all lurkers post
-the shit going on to do with crazy
-the back and forth between chkflp and papa zito
-the DH wagon

you mentioned _____ of these (fill the blank)

Were there something worth commenting on, I'd have commented on it.

There. Maybe now your attention span can spot the relevant part of that post.

[Sudo_Nym]

Before I start, I'd like to point out that Oman has yet to post. The game only started yesterday, so I'm not super worried yet, but I'd like an awareness made.

Anyway, let's take a look at this!

Super quote wall of things Thor noticed - huzzah!

vote: Xine

She knows what she did

Hi, I'm ducking the Crazy wagon or offering opinions. I make joke! LOL!...LOL!

The crazy wagon was an RVS wagon. It bears no commenting, as I told cyberbob; and as you'll notice, it's already dissipated, more or less. I especially don't get why you'd try to pin anything on me based on my first post in RVS with what's obviously a joke vote, anyway.

It's where Dread Cthuhlu lies sleeping.

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge.

Um, what? That was a direct response, still in RVS, to someone asking about Troll's signature.

Llama, so you're confirming that it's okay for Cogito to do it... but not Sudo? Got it.

Only have one vote here. That moved CES up a bit though, but I see his early vote as being a minor contribution to the game in getting a wagon kickstarted.

starting to think chk is town afterall here given this last page.

I will give town points to the Llama for going where I would have gone. I don't find CES in the same category of what Sudo is doing at all. I actually found chk functionally town at this stage too, though that opinion took a nose dive later - I'll probably have a quote for that.

Sudo may not have made any super impact yet, but CES hasn't, either. The fact that you'd try to call me out for not being super serious in RVS, while be fine with CES doing the same, speaks of tunnel vision, at the very best. I won't bother quoting the rest of your post, largely because it's ridiculous. "Shamefail," seriously? The whole thing reads like you're trying to make the facts fit the circumstances, rather than the other way around, and it's not a good place to be.

Also, this:

Oh man, this is gonna be gooooood.

Unvote
Vote: DemonHybrid

Might as well be wagoning yourself.

Translation:

"Oh shit, I forgot to wagon because I was too busy sitting on the fence/creating non-genuine suspicions."

Unvote, Vote: SocioPath

Translation: "Oh, shit, I need to deflect suspicion! Who can I target?" For a man who said himself that he's fine with being lynched if it generates discussion, you're doing an awful lot to counterwagon anybody who hones into your view.

[Sudo_Nym]

@DH: Is that supposed to be an argument, DH? The fact that there are people you haven't bad specious arguments against, or OMGUS voted doesn't change the fact that you've done exactly that, with Socio most recently. So I don't really get what point you're attempting to make, here.

[Sudo_Nym]

@DH: Is that supposed to be an argument, DH? The fact that there are people you haven't bad specious arguments against, or OMGUS voted doesn't change the fact that you've done exactly that, with Socio most recently. So I don't really get what point you're attempting to make, here.

You're point is that I tried to counterwagon everyone who disagreed with me, which is complete bullshit. My scumreads so far have been:

Fate, for sitting on the fence to vote me until PZ did
PZ, for an opportunistic vote on an obvious set-up that other people ignored or commented on but didn't bother to vote
Troll slightly, because of his first post, but has recently been okay.
Socio, for being dumb and saying that "I like the wagon, but I find you scummy for page 7" without explaining a thing and while keeping his vote on chkflip, saying that he likes his vote ambiguously (whether he meant that for his vote on chkflip or a vote for me that he didn't have is still up for discussion) and pushing a wagon, only jumping on when I note that he isn't even on the damn thing.

I have not suspected anyone else, though I've been reading closely.

That's certainly not "counterwagoning" "anyone who hones into my view".

Except all your reads are weak, at best, which certainly qualifies to the point I'm making- that you're grasping at straws. Your Fate read may as well be based on air; the PZ case is even worse. You claim that it was an "Obvious Setup to Catch Scum", which based on town reaction, it was not. Jumping on Troll for a basic Lynch All Lurkers post in RVS is super weak. And Socio had a number of good reasons why you're scummy, even if he didn't switch his vote until later. Hell, I find you scummy, and I'm not currently voting you, either. I fail to see how that affects the nature of the posts.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sudo, where do you get this?

And Socio had a number of good reasons why you're scummy, even if he didn't switch his vote until later.

The waters are muddied now, obviously, but at the time, DH was imploding, and Socio was doing a good job of pointing it out. I was impressed, at any rate.

UNVOTE: DH
VOTE: Sudo_Nym

@Sudo:

Still comfortable with your RV, huh? You've done three things in this game: (1) lulz Cthulu (2) defend self (3) sling mud at the lead wagon candidate. Is this how you normally play as town?

Yep. It's an RV, but I've not been too motivated to vote for anyone else, yet. I'd have voted DH, if he hadn't to L-2 so quickly. I'll UNVOTE: , if that helps you. I've been posting the best way I know how, which is to comment on what I see. Sometimes it's more useful than others. And technically, defending myself and slinging mud was largely the same target, so it's closer to two and half things. But in any event, I've yet to see anything else that sticks out enough to be worth commenting on, to be honest. It's still early in the game, and DH was the noise. Now it's time to look for a new signal, of course.

[Sudo_Nym]

@Sudo - how about you *gasp* go out on a limb and comment on...anything. You brought up suspecting DH but not wanting to vote him because too many people were voting him and that might mean the person you suspect would be lynched (a truly frightening thing) you, however, fail to clarify if you;

1. Still suspect him.
2. Still consider him voteworthy.
3. Have any opinion whatsoever on his implosion, claim, and replace request.

You could also claim scum, I could work with that.

Suspecting a person, and lynching a person are two different things. I was 100% behind the wagon for sure, and you can put that on the record. But there was still discussion going on, and I wasn't prepared to put him at L-1 so early, while talks are still occuring. By no means do I believe in dragging a game out, but it is still very early in what is promising to be a long one. The replace request has muddied the waters, I admit, but it doesn't change my opinion that the slot is scummy, and whoever replaces DH will be tainted by his actions. Like I said, though, there are town tells, and the replacement certainly isn't condemned.

And for going on a limb and commenting at random- your sarcasm aside, wouldn't commenting on a thing I have no opinion on just make things less clear, by providing useless data? As town, it's my imperative to make sure that communication is clear and effective, is it not?

@NS:

Why the concern about looking shallow? Your vote now will provide info later. Loan it to a wagon, sheep someone you like, or even just RV again. Srsly.

@Sudo:

Now you too!?!

Newsflash... I got a NZ cop result on Not Voting, he's town. That wagon should crumble now.

I don't agree with that. Any vote I make at the moment would be meaningless, because I wouldn't have the confidence in it for it to be useful. It would be tacitly misleading to vote for a person, if I'm not prepared for it to go to a lynch.

[Sudo_Nym]

@Sudo - what I meant was, Socio never explained himself until

after

he voted DH. That's not what you said here:

And Socio had a number of good reasons why you're scummy, even if he didn't switch his vote until later.

Then I admit the mistake. I didn't actually check the timing; I was queuing off something that DH said. Legitimately my bad, then.

[Sudo_Nym]

Suspecting a person, and lynching a person are two different things. I was 100% behind the wagon for sure, and you can put that on the record. But there was still discussion going on, and I wasn't prepared to put him at L-1 so early, while talks are still occuring.

Suspecting and lynching are indeed two different things.
So is L-1 and lynch, while we're pointing out things.
What were you expecting? A player to come swooping in, yell "Blargh, I am TOTALLY town...QUICKHAMMAH!!! Bwa-hahahaha!" Because...ah...last I checked scum don't go in for that too much. And if you believe they do than you'd have a perfect way to 100% verify a townie Day 1, which is well worth the "risk" of 100% exposing a scum.

The replace request has muddied the waters, I admit, but it doesn't change my opinion that the slot is scummy, and whoever replaces DH will be tainted by his actions. Like I said, though, there are town tells, and the replacement certainly isn't condemned.

Now that people are fleeing from the fail wagon like rats from a sinking ship how do you still feel about him. Why are you not voting him now - clearly something beyond putting him at L-1 is holding you back, so what's the other roadblock?

Did I not already address that the replacement issue makes it difficult? Or were you not paying attention to that? It's right there, in that thing you quoted.

And for going on a limb and commenting at random- your sarcasm aside, wouldn't commenting on a thing I have no opinion on just make things less clear, by providing useless data? As town, it's my imperative to make sure that communication is clear and effective, is it not?

How are reads developed? By having opinions/actions expressed in game that you can assess as town or scum opinions/actions. Agreed?
What sort of player might want to avoid having other players draw tells from their opinions/actions? (hint - not town)
So, either you are town who is looking scummy while not helping us scumhunt, or you are scum who is trying to lay low and not give town clues about your scumminess. I see you as a value++ lynch either way. Am I missing something?

[/quote]

Reads are developed by making meaningful analysis. Meaningful analysis requires meaningful posts. Analyzing worthless posts generates worthless reads. Worthless reads do nothing to help the town. Why would you want me to generate worthless content? Why would you want anyone to generate worthless content? Because it seems like an utter waste of time.

[Sudo_Nym]

The replace request has muddied the waters, I admit,

but it doesn't change my opinion that the slot is scummy

, and whoever replaces DH will be tainted by his actions. Like I said, though, there are town tells, and the replacement certainly isn't condemned.

Now that people are fleeing from the fail wagon like rats from a sinking ship how do you still feel about him. Why are you not voting him now - clearly something beyond putting him at L-1 is holding you back, so what's the other roadblock?

Did I not already address that the replacement issue makes it difficult? Or were you not paying attention to that? It's right there, in that thing you quoted.

So your answer is he's scummy, and you would vote him, but now you're not going to vote him because a scummy replacement shouldn't have any pressure on him when replacing in?
What do you think about all the players announcing the slot is no longer scummy (or, indeed, obv.obv.obv. town)? WHy do you still think the slot is scummy despite the replacement, and why are you not pressuring those clearing the slot who are obviously missing the point that the slot is still scummy and are letting all the pressure bleed off?

Because the replacement deserves a chance to talk. And I'm willing to believe that others think that DH is genuinely town, given his request for replacement. Here's a question: why are you trying to dictate my play? I do as I think logical, which may or may not always be the case. I tend to play very slowly, and deliberately, and I don't believe that it's a bad style, even if it lacks the aggression that people seem to demand.

Reads are developed by making meaningful analysis. Meaningful analysis requires meaningful posts. Analyzing worthless posts generates worthless reads. Worthless reads do nothing to help the town. Why would you want me to generate worthless content? Why would you want anyone to generate worthless content? Because it seems like an utter waste of time.

So...you'll let me know once meaningful posts start happening and will just lurk till then? And if everyone played that way the game would be a lot of silence. What are you planning to do to begin the generation of meaningful posts? If you don't have an answer to that I'm forced to return to the previously stated accusation that you are not scumhunting and are active lurking.[/quote]

I'm not scumhunting, because I'm not randomly applying pressure to people? Because I'm not playing aggressively? Besides, I hardly think it's fair to accuse me of being silent, here. And I really don't think it's fair for getting on my case for not making garbage posts.

[Sudo_Nym]

Sorry, Xine wouldn't drink with me, so I had to drink hers and my shares yesterday.

@Sudo - Current read on DH/Nacho slot. Go.
@Socio - You too.

Still scummy, to the point where I'll

vote: Nachomamma

, now that it isn't at L-1. Nachomamma's been alright so far, though, so I reserve the right to change my mind on the basis of goodposting from Nacho.

@Sudo - Don't make me regret calling you town. Do you have

any

suspects yet? And have you exhibited your same strategy here in any past games?

It's not my wont to make you regret anything. And I think I've had a remarked tendency to be more or less like this on Day 1 in every game I've been in. Including real life. I can't link anything right now, though, since it's been a while since I've played on-site, and I'm too hung-over right now to bother searching the archives.

@Sudo

Where do you stand, honestly? Suspicions, thoughts, something? I'd love a vote, but doubt we'll see that, so just give us something to work with?

I've put down a vote, but I've got some other thoughts. I'm not a big fan of the Crazy wagon- I'm not getting a lot of the vitriol aimed there. I'm also a fan of wagoning Zorblag, if only because he said scum would probably try to lurk, and then stopped posting. Granted, he's not the only lurker, but he's the only one that specifically outlined a lynch-lurkers policy. Other than that, of course, there's not much to say about Zorblag.

[Sudo_Nym]

Okay, so I'm back, sorta. Work was crazy these last few days- I thought I'd be through it by Friday; instead it lasted until midnight last night. I'm exhausted still, but I'm alive now, and getting started on rereading.